> try <http://www.melroch.se/conlang/slevan/slevan.php>.

When entering whole sentence with a punctuation mark,
the program fails:

  Failed evaluating code: strtolower(.)

       P.A.

Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:

> Just be aware that:
> --the earlier part of my GMP is very much geared towards transforming
> Classical Latin into Vulgar Latin and then VL into something looking
> like early-to-mid Common Slavic, while the latter part is pretty much
> geared towards a specifically West Slavic type similar to Czech and
> Slovak but avoiding some similarities to Jan van Steenbergen's Wenedyk
> and ipso facto Polish.

I guessed as much- my own "GMP" for this Celto-Clavic lang (which I
called "Bajachi") is more Ukrainian-influenced. Still- it's interesting
to put non-Lating yet faintly similar words through Romconlang GMPs!

I look forward to the Slvanjek grammar- particularly the nouns.

Dan

Deiniol Jones skrev:
> On Sat, 2006-02-11 at 10:29 +0100, Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
>
>
>>The GMP is not yet available in human-readable version*, but
>>try <http://www.melroch.se/conlang/slevan/slevan.php>.  If you
>>run it with less than four words as input you will see which
>>sound changes have applied.  Unfortunately the program for some
>>reason doesn't work in Internet Explorer, however.
>
>
> I love it! It's wonderful, I must say. I ran three proto-Celtic words
> through it for fun- tegoslougos, tigernos and abona (family, lord and
> river), and I rather like the output- tjehoslýh, tezsrán and jebona. Now
> I'm tempted to get working on my Celtic-Slavic project again!

Just be aware that:
--the earlier part of my GMP is very much geared towards transforming
Classical Latin into Vulgar Latin and then VL into something looking
like early-to-mid Common Slavic, while the latter part is pretty much
geared towards a specifically West Slavic type similar to Czech and
Slovak but avoiding some similarities to Jan van Steenbergen's Wenedyk
and ipso facto Polish.
--you ought to enter Celtic long vowels as áéíóú, and the un-Latin
diphthong *ou as ó to get the output right, plus *ai and *oi as ae
and oe of course, since the program has no way to handle such
diphthongs as did not exist in Latin (*ou > û on Latin, but you want
*ou > ô > u in Slavic).
--you may want to use diacritics rather than digraphs for palatalized
consonants, although Slvanjek orthography is "designed" to be
possible to write in Latin-1.
--
/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se

     "Maybe" is a strange word.  When mum or dad says it
     it means "yes", but when my big brothers say it it
     means "no"!

                             (Philip Jonsson jr, age 7)

On Sat, 2006-02-11 at 10:29 +0100, Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:

> The GMP is not yet available in human-readable version*, but
> try <http://www.melroch.se/conlang/slevan/slevan.php>.  If you
> run it with less than four words as input you will see which
> sound changes have applied.  Unfortunately the program for some
> reason doesn't work in Internet Explorer, however.

I love it! It's wonderful, I must say. I ran three proto-Celtic words
through it for fun- tegoslougos, tigernos and abona (family, lord and
river), and I rather like the output- tjehoslýh, tezsrán and jebona. Now
I'm tempted to get working on my Celtic-Slavic project again!

Dan

Henrik Theiling skrev:
> Hi!
>
> "Melroch 'Aestan" <melroch@...> writes:
>
>>...
>>QUEM gives _kvja_ which I rather dislike and QUOD gives _ko_.
>>...
>
>
> How does 'ja' derive in _kvja_?  I checked the website, but the
> Grand Master Plan is not online yet.  Since I'm currently busy with
> Proto-Norse, as you know, it looks like fraction to me, but
> there's no _a_! :-))  Does _e_ palatise?
>

It's rather more complicated.  First front vowel + nasal (EM)
becomes /&~/ (_ę_ in Slavicists' notation); this _ę_ first
palatalizes and then becomes _a_.

The GMP is not yet available in human-readable version*, but
try <http://www.melroch.se/conlang/slevan/slevan.php>.  If you
run it with less than four words as input you will see which
sound changes have applied.  Unfortunately the program for some
reason doesn't work in Internet Explorer, however.

(*I'm working on it ATM by translating the GMP PHP-program.
As I can read the program and even read the *regular expressions*
it is proven that I'm not [fully] human! ;-) since as everybody
knows regexps aren't human-readable...)

--
/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se

     "Maybe" is a strange word.  When mum or dad says it
     it means "yes", but when my big brothers say it it
     means "no"!

                             (Philip Jonsson jr, age 7)

Hi!

"Melroch 'Aestan" <melroch@...> writes:
>...
> QUEM gives _kvja_ which I rather dislike and QUOD gives _ko_.
>...

How does 'ja' derive in _kvja_?  I checked the website, but the
Grand Master Plan is not online yet.  Since I'm currently busy with
Proto-Norse, as you know, it looks like fraction to me, but
there's no _a_! :-))  Does _e_ palatise?

**Henrik
--
Relay 13 is running:
http://www.conlang.info/relay/relay13.html

Benct Philip Jonsson skrev:
> Slvanjek has undergone a substantial change in its GMP
> and is now version 3.8.  The name of the lang has also
> changed in consequence.  It is now as people pronounce it ;-)
>
> PATR NOSTRÝ
>
> Patr nostrý ky jej ja czelev
> szej sútjevóc tú núm;
> szej odvjenta tva koróltátj.  Szej vóc tva volútátj
> kumód ja czelu kók ja tjera.
> Nostrý panj kótjéný duna nób oj.
> I dimétj nostrý débty,
> kumód nu dimetjem diturev nostrv.
> I njej jadykaj nu ja tjatocenj;
> maj libjera nu ze malu.
>
> Sorry for the cross-post, but I figure not *everyone*
> is on both lists.
>

Due to a bug in the GMP program I got some words wrong:


SANCTIFACTUM > sútvóc
ADVENITA > odvínta
TEMPTÁTIÓNEM > tjatocínj

Patr nostrý ky jej ja czelev
szej sútvóc tú núm;
szej odvínta tva koróltátj.  Szej vóc tva volútátj
kumód ja czelu kók ja tjera.
Nostrý panj kótjéný duna nób oj.
I dimétj nostrý débty,
kumód nu dimetjem diturev nostrv.
I njej jadykaj nu ja tjatocínj;
maj libjera nu ze malu.


--

/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__
                 A h-ammen ledin i phith!                \ \
      __  ____ ____    _____________ ____ __   __ __     / /
      \ \/___ \\__ \  /___  _____/\ \\__ \\ \  \ \\ \   / /
      / /   / /  /  \    / /Melroch\ \_/ // /  / // /  / /
     / /___/ /_ / /\ \  / /Roccondil\_  // /__/ // /__/ /
    /_________//_/  \_\/ /Eowine __  / / \___/\_\\___/\_\
Gwaedhvenn Angeliniel\ \______/ /a/ /_h-adar Merthol naun
   ~~~~~~~~~Kuinondil~~~\________/~~\__/~~~Noolendur~~~~~~
|| Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda kuivie aiya! ||
"A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)

Benct Philip Jonsson skrev:
> Slvanjek has undergone a substantial change in its GMP
> and is now version 3.8.  The name of the lang has also
> changed in consequence.  It is now as people pronounce it ;-)
>
> PATR NOSTRÝ
>
> Patr nostrý ky jej ja czelev
> szej sútjevóc tú núm;
> szej odvjenta tva koróltátj.  Szej vóc tva volútátj
> kumód ja czelu kók ja tjera.
> Nostrý panj kótjéný duna nób oj.
> I dimétj nostrý débty,
> kumód nu dimetjem diturev nostrv.
> I njej jadykaj nu ja tjatocenj;
> maj libjera nu ze malu.
>
> Sorry for the cross-post, but I figure not *everyone*
> is on both lists.
>

I myself just came up with a thought.  What if the singular
of "who" was _ke_ and only the plural _ky_?  A bit of a cheat
since both singular and plural nominative are QUÎ in Latin.
QUEM gives _kvja_ which I rather dislike and QUOD gives _ko_.
Perhaps a masculine-animate and masculine-inanimate distinction?

--

/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__
                 A h-ammen ledin i phith!                \ \
      __  ____ ____    _____________ ____ __   __ __     / /
      \ \/___ \\__ \  /___  _____/\ \\__ \\ \  \ \\ \   / /
      / /   / /  /  \    / /Melroch\ \_/ // /  / // /  / /
     / /___/ /_ / /\ \  / /Roccondil\_  // /__/ // /__/ /
    /_________//_/  \_\/ /Eowine __  / / \___/\_\\___/\_\
Gwaedhvenn Angeliniel\ \______/ /a/ /_h-adar Merthol naun
   ~~~~~~~~~Kuinondil~~~\________/~~\__/~~~Noolendur~~~~~~
|| Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda kuivie aiya! ||
"A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)

Slvanjek has undergone a substantial change in its GMP
and is now version 3.8.  The name of the lang has also
changed in consequence.  It is now as people pronounce it ;-)

PATR NOSTRÝ

Patr nostrý ky jej ja czelev
szej sútjevóc tú núm;
szej odvjenta tva koróltátj.  Szej vóc tva volútátj
kumód ja czelu kók ja tjera.
Nostrý panj kótjéný duna nób oj.
I dimétj nostrý débty,
kumód nu dimetjem diturev nostrv.
I njej jadykaj nu ja tjatocenj;
maj libjera nu ze malu.

Sorry for the cross-post, but I figure not *everyone*
is on both lists.

--
/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se

     "Maybe" is a strange word.  When mum or dad says it
     it means "yes", but when my big brothers say it it
     means "no"!

                             (Philip Jonsson jr, age 7)

This is for the same world as Cunwy (Greek Brithenig), except it
provides the base for the equivalent of Western Romance languages
(Spanish, Catalan, Portuguese, Langue d'Oc, Langue d'Oil, Italian)
1.
Short
i y e O a
Long
i: y: u: e: E: O: a:
Diphthongs
ui Oi ai au eu E:u

1 > 2
ui Oi ai au eu E:u > y: O: e: o: 2: 2(open):

2.
Short
i y e O a
Long
i: y: u: e: 2: o: E: 2(open): a:

2 > 3
i y e O a > e 2 E O a
V: > V

3 (GEoPWR)
i y u e 2 o E 2(open) O a

Samples
Femininine
nikE: 'VICTORY'
ni:kE: > nit_SE
ni:kE:n > nit_SE(n)
ni:kai > nit_Se
ni:ka:s > nika(s)
Masculine
tOpOs 'PlACE'
tOpOs > tObO(s)
tOpOn > tObO(n)
tOpoi > tObE
tOpu:s > tObu(s)

--- In Slaviconlang@yahoogroups.com, Jan van Steenbergen
<ijzeren_jan@y...> wrote:
>
>  --- Theophilus skrzypszy:
>
> > Here Hungarian is Uralic, Romanian is Romance, and Bulgarian is
> > Slavic. In FIU, Hungarian is replaced by Dacian (Romance, with
> > qualifications). In order to maintain parity, Bulgarian must be
> > replaced by a Uralic language. Is there any information on the
> > sort of Bulgar spoken by the pre-Slavicised Bulgars?
>
> Well, it definitely wasn't Uralic! I've always been under the
> assumption that the ancestors of the Bulgarians (the Bulgars, or
> Bolgars) were a Turkic people, but in
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolgar_language> it is said that
> there's no real evidence of that. Instead of a Turkic language, it
> could as well be an Iranian (Pamirian) language.
>
> So, if Hungary speaks Dacian, then what language is spoken in
> Romania?

Bulgaria can be Slavic speaking. I have discovered the Szekely, a
group closely related to the Magyars. They settled primarily in
Translyvania (which isn't called T. in FIU, since T. is a Romanian
designation). *Here* the Szekely (MLat. Siculi) were a
separate 'privileged nation' in Transylvania, but now they have been
mostly absorbed into the general Magyar population.

Current FIU Status (subject to change without notice of FIU
inhabitants):

In the FIU, most of the Magyar were absorbed into the Romance-
speaking Dacian population, while the Szekely survived and later
expanded eastward in 'Sicilia' (*here*'s Romania). Thus Bulgaria is
Slavic-speaking, its northern neighbor 'Sicilia' is Uralic-speaking,
and Dacia (*here*'s Hungary) is Romance-speaking.

Which categories of words in Bulgarian would the replacement of
Romania by Sicilians affect?

>
> Jan
>
> "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping
in a closed room with a mosquito."
>
> http://steen.free.fr/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide
with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>

--- Theophilus skrzypszy:

> Here Hungarian is Uralic, Romanian is Romance, and Bulgarian is
> Slavic. In FIU, Hungarian is replaced by Dacian (Romance, with
> qualifications). In order to maintain parity, Bulgarian must be
> replaced by a Uralic language. Is there any information on the
> sort of Bulgar spoken by the pre-Slavicised Bulgars?

Well, it definitely wasn't Uralic! I've always been under the
assumption that the ancestors of the Bulgarians (the Bulgars, or
Bolgars) were a Turkic people, but in
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolgar_language> it is said that
there's no real evidence of that. Instead of a Turkic language, it
could as well be an Iranian (Pamirian) language.

So, if Hungary speaks Dacian, then what language is spoken in
Romania?

Jan

"If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping in a closed
room with a mosquito."

http://steen.free.fr/







.





___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Here Hungarian is Uralic, Romanian is Romance, and Bulgarian is Slavic.
In FIU, Hungarian is replaced by Dacian (Romance, with qualifications).
In order to maintain parity, Bulgarian must be replaced by a Uralic
language. Is there any information on the sort of Bulgar spoken by the
pre-Slavicised Bulgars?

Hi,

the new web-pages are on-line; they contain contemporary Nassian. The
diachronic overview will follow after summer.

http://ark.wz.cz/conlangs/nasesk.html

Jan II.

Citerar "Jan II." <regis977@...>:

> --- In Slaviconlang@yahoogroups.com, Benct Philip Jonsson <melroch@m.
> ..> wrote:
> > How can Slavic have words like *kve:tu *kvaasu *gveezhdaa if PIE
> > labiovelars were lost in Slavic?  I must have missed something
> major!
>
>   Consonantic clusters _kv_, _cv_, _sv_ and _gv_ are comming from
> connection of _k_, _k'_ or _gh_ with bilabial glide _w_, so they are
> direct descendents of IE labiovelars; so not of labialised consonants,
> as labialised consonants had different fate (extinct in CSL).

I thought only *k^v could appear in this way.  Not so obviously!
Which probably means that the PIE labiovelars were *real* labiovelars
[kp gb] etc.! :-)


>   See:
>
>   _*ghwoig(w)-zdá-_ (ie) > _gv&#283;zda_ (ccsl) > hv&#283;zda, zvezda, etc...
>   _*kwátso-_ > _kvasU_ > kvas
>   _*kweit-_ > _kv&#283;tit_ > kvést, cv&#283;tat', etc.
>
>    Jan II.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail Slaviconlang-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> The group owner's e-mail is Slaviconlang-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Check out:
www.slovio.com
www.galaktia.com
www.zvestia.com
www.slavianstvo.com
=============================


--- In Slaviconlang@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <studentofrhythm@y...>
wrote:
>
> --- In Slaviconlang@yahoogroups.com, "Jan II." <regis977@h...> wrote:
> >
> > Dobry den, Karle ;)
> >
> > Could you tell me something more on the Slavonic modellang you are
> > working on? I am quite curious about any Slavic conlang. ;)
> >
> >  Jan II.
>
> Well, I started out by taking the phonological inventories of modern
> Slovak and Russian and putting them through several versions of
> unconditioned sound changes: vowel shifts, reversing palatizations, etc.
>
> I chose Slovak as the starting point for the first of these languages
> because I wanted to create a setting that resembled my romantic
> imaginations of the Carpathian mountain region, since I've lived in
> Utah for much of my life and have always loved mountains.  I've ended
> up so far with a combination of Slavic culture and language
> transplanted to a Rocky Mountain style setting.  I chose Russian for
> the other major language, for a culture I was modelling on Kievan
> Rus'.  This then split into a much larger version of the Bulgarian
> Empire (swallowing up what would have been Kiev) and a sort of
> Republic of Novgorod that never had to deal with Tatar invasions.
>
> I had majored in Linguistics in college, and soon after I started
> dabbling with this I realized I needed to learn more about the
> provenance of the modern phonological inventories, so I started doing
> more research, and this project has gotten more and more complex.
> Right now I still only have the sets of unconditioned sound changes
> that I had applied to my own murkily reconstructed Proto-Slavic and
> thence to Slovak, Bulgarian (I had begun to research Old Church
> Slavonic to use for this one), and Russian.  Since I joined this group
> and found the helpful list of Slavic consonant inventories (where's
> Russian on that chart, by the way?), I'd like to make my phoneme
> inventory for the proto-language more consistent, and then revise my
> languages again, not sticking so closely to the forms of any one
> modern language.  I had already started mixing things up anyway.  For
> example, I put Slovak words through the o-a and e-o sound changes
> found in Russian, but I made them more widespread, applying the o-a
> change to stressed vowels in order to balance the consistent e-o in
> stressed position, and then to complete the vowel shift, I changed a -
> /æ/, and á, ä to /e/.  I also changed é to /eu/ and introduced front
> rounded vowels: io - /ø/, iu - /y/.
>
> The /g/ in Proto-Slavic I decided to make into a /w/, which would
> change to /j/ (or /i/ before consonants) in the ~slovak (Tüskuy), and
> to /v/ in the ~russian (Sorodskij)- I thought the last one was
> particularly clever.  So, for "castle" or "city", Tooskuy has /iræd/,
> Tybanskugh has /wurad/, and Sorodskij has /vorod/.  But I'm still not
> sure how well that will work, or if my treatment of the /j/ phoneme is
> valid.
>
> -Karle Kamen'brod

--- In Slaviconlang@yahoogroups.com, "BP Jonsson" <melroch@m...> wrote:
> I have been dabbling in Slavic historical linguistics recently, and
as
> a matter of course I've been trying to write those languages with
> Tolkien's Tengwar.  I am aware that there are other Tengwar modes
for
> most of the modern languages -- it's more like I'm speculating what
> things would look like if there had been a Tengwar mode for Old
Church
> Slavic, and how things may develop from there...
>
> <http://eowine.superihost.com/images/chlovjeku.gif>

It has been called to my attention that this link doesn't work.
I uploaded the file to
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Slaviconlang/files/Miscellanea/>

> How can Slavic have words like *kve:tu *kvaasu *gveezhdaa
> if PIE labiovelars were lost in Slavic?

It is from plain velar (depalatalised palatovelar or develarized labiovelar)
+ w.

PSl. kvasU < PIE. kweH2-so-
(PSl. kyse^lU "sour" <  kuH2-s-)

PSl. kve^tU "bloom" < PIE. kwoi-to-
(but  PSl. sve^tU "light; world" < PIE. k^woi-to-)

PSl. gve^zda "star"
related with Lith. z^waigz^dé:, Latv. zva`igzne "star",
OPr. swa:igstan "shine, gleam"
maybe also Gr. foi~bos "shining" < PIE. g^hwoigW-

I am not sure with the word for "star" in Kex (K¨KS), my condialect of PIE.
Maybe gWhwoigWsdeH2 (CY°IQSÞ¨H )

       P.A.

--- In Slaviconlang@yahoogroups.com, Benct Philip Jonsson <melroch@m.
..> wrote:
> How can Slavic have words like *kve:tu *kvaasu *gveezhdaa if PIE
> labiovelars were lost in Slavic?  I must have missed something
major!

   Consonantic clusters _kv_, _cv_, _sv_ and _gv_ are comming from
connection of _k_, _k'_ or _gh_ with bilabial glide _w_, so they are
direct descendents of IE labiovelars; so not of labialised consonants,
as labialised consonants had different fate (extinct in CSL).

   See:

   _*ghwoig(w)-zdá-_ (ie) > _gv&#283;zda_ (ccsl) > hv&#283;zda, zvezda, etc...
   _*kwátso-_ > _kvasU_ > kvas
   _*kweit-_ > _kv&#283;tit_ > kvést, cv&#283;tat', etc.

    Jan II.

I have been dabbling in Slavic historical linguistics recently, and as
a matter of course I've been trying to write those languages with
Tolkien's Tengwar.  I am aware that there are other Tengwar modes for
most of the modern languages -- it's more like I'm speculating what
things would look like if there had been a Tengwar mode for Old Church
Slavic, and how things may develop from there...

<http://eowine.superihost.com/images/chlovjeku.gif>

/Melroch

How can Slavic have words like *kve:tu *kvaasu *gveezhdaa if PIE
labiovelars were lost in Slavic?  I must have missed something major!
--

/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se

          Solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant!
                                              (Tacitus)

Hi,

just few new changes in nasika.

As I made a mistake in the new version of nasika in emphatic article,
here is the newest version:

Nasika has two declensions per each class of nouns (in fact, nasika
has one two decl. templates per each gender), one - normal, second -
emphatic. The second declension serves the purpose as in English use
of "the":

imenö (sing.) - name, niimenö [imenä] - nouns, imenä - names, imenȁ
[imenä:ä:] (pl.) - the names.

      Ta ittimes vëkorte̋m! - Let go downtown (into town)!
ve-kort-e̋m [ve'korte:em] - to the town (meaning here _downtown_)
ve-kort-üü [ve'kortü:] - to town.

This second declension is originated in adjective affix *jis; it
evolved in Nassian (under Baltic influence) into two adjective
declensions (normal/short and emphatic/long), which was taken later
also by nouns.

   Second article is generic and originates in prefix *nei- later with
meaning of indiference (_někdo_ in Czech):

      Sesü niipäsü. Päsí [päsi:i] eme imeni Usiku. - This is a dog. His
name is (the dog has name) Little Ear.

     Se-sü nii-päs-ü. - be(3.pers.sing)-this(NOM) GEN.ART.-dog(NOM)

     Päs-í eme imen-i Us-ik-u. - dog-EMPH.NOM have(3.pers.sing) name-
ACC ear-DIMIN-NOM.


     I have also introduced to nasika new vowels - ultra long [a::] and
semi-ultralong [a:.] + their umlauts. These are results of nassian
contraction:

C-V(1)-j-V(2) > C-V(1)-V(2) > C-V(1)-u-V(2) > C-u-V(2) > C-V(2):.


     Jan II.

--- In Slaviconlang@yahoogroups.com, "Isaac Penzev" <isaacp@u...> wrote:
> Jan van Steenbergen jazdy:

> > welcome you! I don't think I have seen you before, nor have I heard
> > of your languages. The short description at least makes me curious
> > for more. If you'd care to introduce yourself and your languages,
> > please do so!
>
> I'd love to see some grammar and/or samples, too. Too little actual
> conlanging is done these days. We need fresh blood :-)

Thanks for the interest and encouragement.  I had posted some
explanation about these languages a month or two ago, but I don't mind
explaining some more.  I've got three Slavic-based conlangs in the
works: the two whose alphabets I just posted, and one based on Slovak,
the first one that I started.  I've used the modern languages for
models so far because of the greater availability of instructional
materials on them, but I'd like to find out more about the older forms
of the languages.  For example, Tybanian has been modelled on the
phonology of modern Bulgarian, but I want to preserve the richer
system of declensions and conjugations found in Old Church Slavonic.

I started out by simply putting the phonemes of modern Russian, Slovak
and Bulgarian through series of unconditioned sound changes, and
keeping the grammar more or less the same, relying on the sound
changes to make it appear different enough (an MO I've used to
"invent" several other languages for my world, see below for example).
  As I continue to discover how deficient my knowledge is, I've been
revising the grammars and phonologies over and over to try to make
them more plausible.  When I get the time, I can post some examples -
probably of Thuesian (the Slovak-inspired one) first, since I've done
the most work on that recently.  The alphabet for that is modified
from Glagolitic, but I have to come up with a justification for that
that will fit with the cultural and religious history of Thuesia.
I'll have to decide on a definitive version of that too.  This
language has been influenced by a couple of indigenous languages that
I completely made up (the word "thuesh" meant "people" in one of
them), as well as by a twisted version of Latin, and its grammar has
been simplified.

Again, my choices of Bulgarian, Russian, and Slovak as models was due
to my wanting to create societies that had similar geographies and
cultures to these.  The physical geography currently resembles North
America more than Europe though: Thuesia covers the ~rocky mountains,
Tybania the ~great plains, Sorodia resembles central to eastern
Canada.  As I get more confident in my ability to make my fabrications
realistic, I've been bringing in more different geographical features,
cultures and languages.  Still, I like the general layout of North
America too much to abandon it completely as a geographical model.

Pavle,

in which state is now Skuodian? Because I am a hopelless amateur in
slaviconlanging, I need a reference material ;) I just get tired of
correcting all my tables everytime I discover I've made some stupid
mistake. I would like to do the correction en masse! ;)

I would like you, if interested, to comment/criticise the current
state of nasika, since 1) you are alsi IN northslaviconlanging and 2)
ahem, you know much more than me about Slavistics.

If your answer sounds yes, write me an email on jdqh(at)chemi(dot)
muni(dot)cz

Mnohe diky,

Jan II.

Jan van Steenbergen jazdy:


> --- Charles skrzypszy:
>
> > I just posted the alphabets that I've made up for two of my
> > Slavic-based conlangs, as they stand so far. [...]
>
> welcome you! I don't think I have seen you before, nor have I heard
> of your languages. The short description at least makes me curious
> for more. If you'd care to introduce yourself and your languages,
> please do so!

I'd love to see some grammar and/or samples, too. Too little actual
conlanging is done these days. We need fresh blood :-)

-- Yitzik, tired of inventing a good name for his Turkic project (#20,
formerly known as Kumandzha) and having no time to put any stuff even on
paper, to say nothing about the web...

--- Jan II. skrzypszy:

> An Pirevu ezepisasös:
>
> (pirev-u eze-pisa-s-ös)
>  first-MASC PERF-write-PAST-2.PERS.SING

Where does "-ös" come from?

>   "Nassian" in English, "Nassika" in English for Nassian patriots
> ;), "nasëku" colloqially in Nassland; "nasika" official short term.

Then I guess it's time to update the corresponding Wikipedia pages as
well, isn't it?

So, how did "našësk" become "naśêsk" and then suddenly "nasëku"?
What happened to the _s_ before _k_? And do I understand correctly
that not every final jer falls silent?

>   Oh, yeah, it took a loooong way from našica to nasika. The very
> first idea and concept is from 1999. Then, it was a pure game.

Yeah, I thought of adding that to the wiki article as well. N. was
originally concieved a bit like a parody on Czech, wasn't it?

> Then, IB came and I seriously jumped in... "and Mr. H. will
> demostrate ten somersets he'll undertake on solid ground..." ;)

:)

> I hope, that nasika is now more and more close to the environment;
> you see, almost no voiced consonants, long consonants, maximised
> opened syllabilics, vowel harmony, lots of agglutination.

Very close indeed! I haven't done any work on Vozgian for quite a
while, but I'm sure your work will also have some impact on mine...

> I also hope, I was able to see some features, which might be
> "pure" North Slavic/Finno-Slavic, like article different from
> Balkanic and agglutination.

I'd like to see those articles. Mine are pretty similar to Bulgarian,
I'm afraid... What other features would you consider "purely North
Slavic or Finno-Slavic"?

>   Jan, Jussi, I can send you by email all the *.xls files with
> complete diachronic grammar of nasika, if you want them!

Yes, please do! I can't make any promises regarding time frames,
though: I'm expecting my second child within a month now! :)

> > I'd love to see some etymologies!
>
>   As for paternoster, I can put it here soon.

Cool. Just for the record, it would be interesting to use the Pater
Noster as a sample of all the different states Nasika has gone
trough!

>   In lexicum, I tried to as Slavic as possible, sometimes I have
> been even reconstructing new north-slavic words from IE directly,
> e.g. reza - the empire, realm (IE *reigha- > Reich, Rig etc.),

That's neat. Mind if I borrow some of those?

Cheers,
Jan I.

"If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping in a closed
room with a mosquito."

http://steen.free.fr/







.





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An Pirevu ezepisasös:

(pirev-u eze-pisa-s-ös)
  first-MASC PERF-write-PAST-2.PERS.SING

> Našica has gone quite a way before it finally became Nassika
(is
that its current name?),

   "Nassian" in English, "Nassika" in English for Nassian patriots ;),
"nasëku" colloqially in Nassland; "nasika" official short term.

   Oh, yeah, it took a loooong way from našica to nasika. The very
first idea and concept is from 1999. Then, it was a pure game. Then,
IB came and I seriously jumped in... "and Mr. H. will demostrate ten
somersets he'll undertake on solid ground..." ;)

   I hope, that nasika is now more and more close to the environment;
you see, almost no voiced consonants, long consonants, maximised
opened syllabilics, vowel harmony, lots of agglutination.

   I also hope, I was able to see some features, which might be "pure"
North Slavic/Finno-Slavic, like article different from Balkanic and
agglutination.

   Jan, Jussi, I can send you by email all the *.xls files with
complete diachronic grammar of nasika, if you want them!

> I must admit. Really, I admire your efforts! Is
> it sort of ready now? Then I'd say it's time you update your grammar
> pages! ;))

   I am working like an ox on them... just tooooo many pages :)

> I'd love to see some etymologies!

   As for paternoster, I can put it here soon.
   In lexicum, I tried to as Slavic as possible, sometimes I have been
even reconstructing new north-slavic words from IE directly, e.g.
reza
- the empire, realm (IE *reigha- > Reich, Rig etc.), sometimes I hold
the Gothic loans, cos they belong to Slavic culture (bread: got.
*hleib > *k(i)lebus in early common Slavic > kileppu (nas.), chleb
(other slav.)

   Jan II.

--- Charles skrzypszy:

> I just posted the alphabets that I've made up for two of my
> Slavic-based conlangs, as they stand so far. [...]
>
> Kamen'brod

As this appears to be your first message to this group, let me first
welcome you! I don't think I have seen you before, nor have I heard
of your languages. The short description at least makes me curious
for more. If you'd care to introduce yourself and your languages,
please do so!

Cheers,
Jan

"If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping in a closed
room with a mosquito."

http://steen.free.fr/







.





___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail
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--- Santeri skrzypszy:

> That's beautiful! I'm interestedly waiting for the historical
> description of the grammar. Then let's see what kind of impact it
> will have on the neighbouring language - Finnish.

Indeed! And on Vozgian, for that matter...

BTW, nice to hear from you, Santeri! It has been quite a while. How's
life, generally speaking? Have you noticed the new IB wiki at
http://ib.frath.net/ ? You might want to take a look, because most of
the IB discussion has moved there nowadays. Especially the Finland
page requires your attention.

Cheers,
Jan I

"If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping in a closed
room with a mosquito."

http://steen.free.fr/







.





___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail
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--- Jan II. skrzypszy:

> after almost a year, new Nassian is almost finished if it comes to
> grammar. Let me show you examples. These are paternosters in two
> versions: [...]

I can only say one word: Wow!!!

Našica has gone quite a way before it finally became Nassika (is that
its current name?), I must admit. Really, I admire your efforts! Is
it sort of ready now? Then I'd say it's time you update your grammar
pages! ;))

I'd love to see some etymologies!

Cheers,
Jan I (who really should be Jan II, since you joined the Internet
community much earlier than I did)

"If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping in a closed
room with a mosquito."

http://steen.free.fr/







.



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