Joubin,

In response to Message #20  Re: What is the promise of the two way web?, in which I said:

Most western humans especially Americans are strongly committed to the belief in INdependence. They are simply trying to make the world work better for themselves. The problems of the rest of humanity do not concern them.

You wrote:

"I think it *grossly unfair* to suggest that somehow the "western humans especially Americans" are selfish beings.  (The 'Eastern' humans are not exactly angels, either.  I know, I hail from the East.)  The sort of behaviour you are describing is a manifestation of the dark side of the human, regardless of their coordinates.  I would suggest that should the industrial revolution had occured in another part of the globe, you would be judging another people for their careless disregard of their distant brethen.

"And I see nothing wrong with "INdepenence".  Quite a noble
aspiration, as far as I am concenred.  To hold out that "INdependence" and 'INterdependence' are somehow mutually exclusive, is a false proposition.

"I don't know where you are, but quite soon there will be celebrations here in USA -- Independence Day.  Certainly it is possible that this event has lost its 'meaning' for some of Americans, but the 'values' that informed the decision of the founding fathers to assert their independence from the King George (not related to our King George II ;) were and remain noble values."
 

In 1776, the Declaration of Independence was made. It was a declaration that claimed that the COMMUNITY of America was independent of the COMMUNITY of England. It was not a statement that human individuals are independent.

Today,  our American belief in independence is so strong, it is almost beyond challenge. And most of us make no distinction between independence for individuals and independence for community. These are very different concepts.

Stop reading ...

Please take a moment to examine the contents of your pockets or purse. ...

Can you find any item there, that you obtained without the help of someone else? Look around you. What do you see? Did you make the clothes you wear? Did you grow the food you eat or the tools you use. Look around your home or workplace. Can you find anything that you made. Do you know the names of those who did make all these things? Do you ever know upon whom you depend. Can you find anything in your environment that was obtained without the help of someone else?

I am not talking about ownership here. I will grant that you own your possessions. But would you have them if they had not been for sale. I would argue that nearly everything modern humans possess was obtained with the help of others.

As my associate Arthur Noll asks his students when making this point, "Lets start with your naked body. Can you manage to clothe and feed and shelter this body, with no hands touching any article except your own hands?" ...

As I examine my own world I discover that I depend on others to grow and produce my food. I depend on others to design and build my home. I depend on others to generate my electricity. I depend on others to supply my water. I depend on others to deliver my mail. I depend on others to educate my children. I depend on others to entertain my family. I depend on others to manufacture my automobile. I depend on others to refine the gasoline for my car. I depend on others to care for my family when we are sick. I depend on others to protect us from crime and war. I depend on others to .... I depend on others. I depend.

Our human INTERdependence is made less visible by our present economic exchange system. I go to work and help my employer. He depends on me. At the end of the month he pays me for my help. I depend on him. I can then take some of the money from my paycheck to pay my house rent. While I depend on my landlord for the roof over my head, he depends on me to pay the rent promptly. Sometimes I depend on others and sometimes others depend on me. When we buy and sell in the economic marketplace we are really exchanging help. When I help others they owe me. When others help me I owe them. Money is just the present accounting mechanism we use to settle up.

Timothy