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King no more -- The demise of Cash and anonymous transactions   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #31 of 53 |
Re: King no more -- The demise of Cash and anonymous transactions


> Why do you say that?
> Anonymous paper money (or come to that bearer shares
> etc) guarantee a Black Economy and "leakage".

Chris,

Wouldn't what I proposed also 'greatly reduce' the "leakage", but do
so without compromising, or even destroying, our Rights?

My criticism, **which I hope you will excuse its tone**, was at the
fact that the remedy goes far beyond simply stopping such anti-social
activities. When people engage in such socioeconomic misbehavior,
they are motivated by either informed purpose (greed, covert ops.,
hidden agendas), or uninformed greed (stealing fruit from their own
garden), or due to desperation, or an act of rebellion against
perceived tyranny.

You want to cure the symptoms. And the medicine proposed is both
bitter and far far too strong. In fact, it is dangerous to our well-
being. This is a case, imo, of the harms far exceeding the
benefits. Let the system leak. (Why is it that the vested powers
are always seeking 100% efficiency in that which greatly benefits
them alone, yet give nary a glance to other inefficiencies, such as
the education of the younger generation? Or poverty? Or ...)

The "leaking" monetary system is, as far as I can see, the least of
our worries. (Corporate propaganda notwithstanding ;)

So I definitely 'hear' what you are saying Chris. Under laboratory
conditions, quite sensible. You are thinking intelligently and
precisely as a system's engineer -- the system in question being the
monetary system. And there is nothing wrong with that. But I don't
sense that you are considering the 'context' of the system -- the
hairy biped known as Man ;) Leakage, Black Markets, Fraud, ..., all
these socioeconomic diseases are symptomatic of the _overall_
condition of the inhabitants of this lovely planet.

Correct that, and then you will not need unholy devices of perpetual
observation and control.

And if you feel that your fellow bipeds are unworthy of trust and
patience, or that they are hopelessly beyond a natural cure, then I
should remind you that the people who will be running these Big
Brother machines are the very same bipeds -- and not angels, and not
aliens, and not (as some bright eyed kid will surely propose)
intelligent machines.

The 'keepers' will be the very same selfish, crooked, self-
destructive, people. And what you propose, would put the security of
your very livelihood in hands of a few unaccountable elements.

That seems to me far more problematic than "leakage".

So I repeat: Let the Damned 'thing' leak. It's been leaking all
this time and the Sky is still Blue (in some parts of the world ;)


> Clearly the whole nature of corporate, national
> and international governance
> has to change in order for the model to work.

Right.

But changing the "whole nature of corporate, national, and
international governance" is easier said than done :) (Really.)

Whereas introducing, by fiat, attributed capital instruments is
relatively as easy as drinking a 7 Glasses of water. (Or
alternatively, for Bill and that <expletive deleted> from VeriSign to
smoke a pipe and divide the pie between them. (Come to think of it,
they just did that, didn't they?))

Honestly, which do you think will happen first? Revolutionary change
in social systems or eMoney? Hear what I'm saying?

The first thing a citizen of any capitalist 'democracy' needs to
realize is that their so-called representative vote in the political
space is meaningless in a capitalist system. The economic space
transcended the political space a while ago, and even the so-called
elected heads of 'states' kowtow to their economic masters. The only
voice you have, as a "consumer", is the feeble feedback loop of
**selective consumption**. (But hey, you still gotta eat.) And
that's about it.

"Its the economy, stupid" said the comeback kid -- remember that,
ya'all.

And if you doubt my assertion above, then I ask you: When, during
the tediously long 2 year election process of the Americans did
George II even mention that right after 'squeezing' into the While
House - whose dignity he is trying to restore for his "favorite
philosopher"'s sake ;) - he would head up to Canada, and announce
his "mandated" Big Plans for the Americas - <bushie joke>"non
democratic countries need not apply" </bushie joke> - and his need
for removing the Constitutional mandated oversight of the
Representatives of the American People over matter of trade? Twice?
Once? Ever? OK.

[You can now go back to following the 'nationaly important and
captivating "breaking" story' of Rachel Levy now on CNN, MSNBC, FOX,
ABC, CBS, NBC, WABC, .. ;)]

If you wish to bring about the changes you seek, and don't feel like
starting at the logical point, which is _educating_ your brothers and
sisters, then minimally, you must first start at devising a New
Corporate Governance Model for the Representative Enterprise.

Minimally.

Even then you will hit the same problem as before: the social
context of the spanking new 'Utopian' architecture. (Unless you also
favor imbedding mind-control devices to save us from our
demons. 'Cause that would surely put a stop to all sort of anti-
social behavior and would be MOST EFFICIENT and MOST ECONOMIC.)

So I say efficiency is good for Machines, but not *necessarily* good
for Humans.

The Biped becomes Human through making CHOICES. That's why you are
here: to make choices! And once you regulate and constrict the
space of Choice, you deny the biped the chance to become Human: You
reduce man to 'Cattle'.

So if you want to put a stop to anti-social economic behavior:

Try giving a hand to someone in need and remove the incentive for
desperate cheating of the system,

Or go teach what you know of economics to someone who doesn't, so
that they can make INFORMED choices in the capitalist system and put
a stop to the excesses of the capitalist entities,

Or become very demanding of those who rule over you in your name, so
that they stop using laundered monies to fund their covert ops,

Or fiercely exercise your Civil Rights, so that dissent within the
framework is again a viable avenue of political speech.


But please Chris, let's not stick a bio-interface in our, or our
children's, head; thank you very much.


Peace,

Joubin





Wed Jul 11, 2001 6:11 pm

joubin_444@...
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Message #31 of 53 |
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There is an interesting dialogue taking place in the JXTA security discuss list [1] which is related to the issues here. (JXTA [2], for those who are not...
Joubin Houshyar
joubin_444@...
Send Email
Jul 9, 2001
3:31 pm

... Electronic cash – ie the anonymous electronic equivalent of paper money – poses a significant, if long-term, threat to governments globally through the...
chris cook
cojock@...
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Jul 10, 2001
8:54 am

... I can not claim to know the measure of the type of money movements you are addressing here, but based on your own characterization of its nature as a...
Joubin Houshyar
joubin_444@...
Send Email
Jul 10, 2001
8:15 pm

... Why do you say that? Anonymous paper money (or come to that bearer shares etc) guarantee a Black Economy and "leakage". ... Clearly the whole nature of...
chris cook
cojock@...
Send Email
Jul 11, 2001
12:01 pm

... Chris, Wouldn't what I proposed also 'greatly reduce' the "leakage", but do so without compromising, or even destroying, our Rights? My criticism, **which...
Joubin Houshyar
joubin_444@...
Send Email
Jul 11, 2001
6:12 pm
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