Has anyone used a flip mirror system for photography that can give me
some pros and cons about it.Charlie

--- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "cer01ca <ve7cer@s...>"
<ve7cer@s...> wrote:
> Has anyone used a flip mirror system for photography that can give
me
> some pros and cons about it

Charlie,

The flip mirror is great for centering the object and achieving rough
focus by parfocalizing the centering eyepiece. I consider them very
useful for CCD imaging taking relatively short exposures, especially
planets or for smaller DSOs, given the relatively small FOV afforded
by most CCDs.

For long exposure AP, IMO they have little to no utility. I think a
guidescope is the best option for manual guiding, especially when
using refractors (some use an off axis guider and I have, but it is a
pain).

One other good use for a flip mirror is for centering an object for
video. It's not really necessary, but does make the task easier.

Perhaps Jon and Stephen would comment. They are both more proficient
than I with imaging and AP.

Randy

One more thing. I have owned and used a Taurus III system. While I
thought is was a work of art and very versatile, I still believe a
simple guidescope mounted rigidly, is still the best/easiest way to
manually guide.

Randy

Nice report, Mark!

Yup, those Naglers are the ticket, alright! ;-)))

Darren.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<<I just wanted to mention to some of you beginners out there a few
things about observing planetary detail. Its easy to get discouraged
when you read posts by more experienced observers like Darren who can
pick out alot of fine detail in the eyepiece. Please note that this
is more a function of experience than anything else. Yes, great
scopes like our fine Stellarvues make it that much more enjoyable
however, to really see that detail takes patience and lots and lots
of practice. Case in point, Darren Hennig is actually 94 years old
which is why his reports are so detailed ;).>>


Eh, Sonny? I can't hear you very well! ;-)

Seriously, group, Rob's right. It takes time and patience to get the views, and
having a fine scope like an SV is a great start. The more you look, the more
you'll begin to see, with time.

For those folks going to Hidden Lakes, I've offered to do two modules, if
there's interest - Planetary observing and cleaning of optical surfaces. So, I
am excited about meeting those who can go! It should be a great time, and Mars
is perfect during that time...

Darren.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Being the bargain hunter that I am, and in search of getting the
mount set for my AT1010, I bought a Davis and Sanford Compac Tripod
on eBay.  My plan is to add a Unistar Light on top of this tripod to
complete the rig.I got the tripod a couple of days ago.

It's fairly old, but mechanically works very well, and both looked
and felt solid.  I finally got out today to test it out.  I put my
scope on the head that came with it, extended the legs all the way,
and put the elevator up a couple of inches so that it was eye-height
when I was standing.  Damping time was 1-2 seconds.  I then lowered
the legs, and extended the elevator to achieve the same height, and
damping time was 2-3 seconds.  My sense is this is quite good,
particularly in light of 1) I was standing, whereas I'm usually
seated, and the lower profile will increase stability and 2) the
head itself, which will get replaced by the Unistar Light, was
probably adding to this instability.  Overall, I'm quite pleased
with this tripod, and think it was work well for this scope.

What do most of you find the damping times to be on your tripods?
Does this seem acceptable?

Finally, I made myself a set of the homemade vibration dampening
pads (silicone caulk inside furniture squares), which should help a
bit as well.  Do other people find these help with this?

Thanks,
Chris Nicholl

Hi Rick,

Before I got the new Unistar, I had my EDT mounted on a Telepod using
the TP1 plate with no problems.  I can't tell from your question if
the rings are "rocking" on the plate or if the plate is "rocking" on
the Gibralter.  Have you tried flipping the plate over and mounting
the rings on the other side?  This should take care of any possible
warping along the longitudinal axis of the plate.  Another possible
cause could be that the bolts are slightly too long, which is not
allowing them to be fully tightened.  Try a washer or perhaps two
washers under the bolt head on the back side of the plate (or try a
shorter 6mm bolt).  Both above suggestions would apply to the
TP1-to-Gibralter mounting as well, except the threaded holes on the
TP-1 are threaded for 1/4x20, not 6mm.

I'll bite my tongue on the sticking to Dobsonians question, but maybe
Randy (a lover of clunky ol' Dobs) has a comment.

Jim


--- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "cedarman320 <cedarman320@y...>"
<cedarman320@y...> wrote:
> Can anyone using the SV Multi-Use Plate (#TP1 on the website) give me
> some advice?
>
> I'm using the plate to mount a 102D to a Gibraltar.  The plate is
> mounted to the rings using 2 threaded bolts w/ hex heads.  Even when
> tightened, the rings (and tube) seem to "rock" w/ a little bit of
> play.  This seems to cause excess vibration at the eyepiece, even
> when adjusting the fine focus.  The bolts were supplied by Vic, but I
> bought the plate from an EDT owner.  Is there a fix?  Can I shim it?
> Could it be a bad plate?  Should I stick to dobsonians????
>
> Bad weather and travel have delayed my first light, and now bad Karma
> is killing me.  Any and all advice welcome.
>
> Rick

Hi Chris,

I looked at the D&S website, and the D&S Compac looks to be roughly
equivalent to the Bogen 3036, which many here are using successfully.
  2-3 seconds is not unreasonable damping time for a photo tripod.  Was
this with or without the vibration suppression pads (good idea, BTW --
may try to make some myself).  The Unistar Light will raise the scope
up above the tripod hub a foot or so, which creates a longer moment
arm.  This may add to the damping time just a bit.

Jim


--- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "chris_in_mass <nicholl.cj@m...>"
<nicholl.cj@m...> wrote:
> Being the bargain hunter that I am, and in search of getting the
> mount set for my AT1010, I bought a Davis and Sanford Compac Tripod
> on eBay.  My plan is to add a Unistar Light on top of this tripod to
> complete the rig.I got the tripod a couple of days ago.
>
> It's fairly old, but mechanically works very well, and both looked
> and felt solid.  I finally got out today to test it out.  I put my
> scope on the head that came with it, extended the legs all the way,
> and put the elevator up a couple of inches so that it was eye-height
> when I was standing.  Damping time was 1-2 seconds.  I then lowered
> the legs, and extended the elevator to achieve the same height, and
> damping time was 2-3 seconds.  My sense is this is quite good,
> particularly in light of 1) I was standing, whereas I'm usually
> seated, and the lower profile will increase stability and 2) the
> head itself, which will get replaced by the Unistar Light, was
> probably adding to this instability.  Overall, I'm quite pleased
> with this tripod, and think it was work well for this scope.
>
> What do most of you find the damping times to be on your tripods?
> Does this seem acceptable?
>
> Finally, I made myself a set of the homemade vibration dampening
> pads (silicone caulk inside furniture squares), which should help a
> bit as well.  Do other people find these help with this?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Nicholl

> I looked at the D&S website, and the D&S Compac looks to be roughly
> equivalent to the Bogen 3036, which many here are using
> successfully.  2-3 seconds is not unreasonable damping time for a
> photo tripod.  Was this with or without the vibration suppression
> pads (good idea, BTW -- may try to make some myself).  The Unistar
> Light will raise the scope up above the tripod hub a foot or so,
> which creates a longer moment arm.  This may add to the damping
> time just a bit.

Thanks for the response, Jim.  That was without the pads, since I
just made them today, and they take about a week to cure.  They are
so very simple and cheap, I figured why not?

Even without the Unistar yet, I can tell I'm going to prefer this to
the AZ-3.  It folds up so easily (no spreader to disassemble) and
just has a nice solid feel to it, without being too heavy.  The
elevator will make viewing adjustments a lot less cumbersome, I
suspect.

Chris Nicholl

Rick:

As I stated in my e-mail to you, you are using the wrong bolts.
Apparently the seller of the plate did not supply you with the flat
head screws that come with it. The bolts we supply with the scope
are for mounting it to eq mounts. We supply the right screws with
the plate. So we are sending you the tp1 instructions and the two
screws at no charge. We do good kharma here.

Vic Maris

--- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Carpenter <jmcarp@a...>"
<jmcarp@a...> wrote:
> Hi Rick,
>
> Before I got the new Unistar, I had my EDT mounted on a Telepod
using
> the TP1 plate with no problems.  I can't tell from your question if
> the rings are "rocking" on the plate or if the plate is "rocking"
on
> the Gibralter.  Have you tried flipping the plate over and mounting
> the rings on the other side?  This should take care of any possible
> warping along the longitudinal axis of the plate.  Another possible
> cause could be that the bolts are slightly too long, which is not
> allowing them to be fully tightened.  Try a washer or perhaps two
> washers under the bolt head on the back side of the plate (or try a
> shorter 6mm bolt).  Both above suggestions would apply to the
> TP1-to-Gibralter mounting as well, except the threaded holes on the
> TP-1 are threaded for 1/4x20, not 6mm.
>
> I'll bite my tongue on the sticking to Dobsonians question, but
maybe
> Randy (a lover of clunky ol' Dobs) has a comment.
>
> Jim
>
>
> --- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "cedarman320 <cedarman320@y...>"
> <cedarman320@y...> wrote:
> > Can anyone using the SV Multi-Use Plate (#TP1 on the website)
give me
> > some advice?
> >
> > I'm using the plate to mount a 102D to a Gibraltar.  The plate
is
> > mounted to the rings using 2 threaded bolts w/ hex heads.  Even
when
> > tightened, the rings (and tube) seem to "rock" w/ a little bit
of
> > play.  This seems to cause excess vibration at the eyepiece,
even
> > when adjusting the fine focus.  The bolts were supplied by Vic,
but I
> > bought the plate from an EDT owner.  Is there a fix?  Can I shim
it?
> > Could it be a bad plate?  Should I stick to dobsonians????
> >
> > Bad weather and travel have delayed my first light, and now bad
Karma
> > is killing me.  Any and all advice welcome.
> >
> > Rick

--- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Carpenter <jmcarp@a...>"
<jmcarp@a...> wrote:
>   I can't tell from your question if
> the rings are "rocking" on the plate or if the plate is "rocking" on
> the Gibralter.

The rings were rocking on the plate.  The plate is solid on the
Gibraltar.  As you can see, Vic is helping.  I tried using the
countersunk screws (Vic actually sent them w/ my 102D originally),
but was unable to get the rig on the Gibraltar.  I had spoken w/
David Owen a while back....it seem's he's using a different version
of the plate (w/ six holes....mine has 8, plus 2 more side-by-side at
the front), and I think I recall him actually using one countersunk
screw and one bolt.

I seem to have it worked out now.....sort of.  I'm using the flat-
head screws in the countesunk holes (holes 2 & 7, counting from the
back of the plate).  Plate is solid on the rings.  Holes 4 & 6 are
the only threaded holes that match up w/ the Gibraltar, and I have
nice bolts w/ large plastic handles for these.  With this scheme,
everything seems to work, although I can't get the tube lower than
appox. 22° because one of the brass tension knobs from the Gibraltar
binds up next to the ring.  It's making me nuts....not sure if I'm
missing something, or this is just the way it is and my next move is
the Uni-mount.  I try reversing direction on the plate, but I think I
tried that before w/ no luck...I'm losing track.


> I'll bite my tongue on the sticking to Dobsonians question, but
maybe
> Randy (a lover of clunky ol' Dobs) has a comment.

LOL....maybe I'll start a support group w/ him!

Thanks, Jim.

Rick

The plate has to be oriented properly and you need to use the
correct threaded holes and countersunk holes. Try e-mailing me and
we can get this to work.

Although that will limit Randy's retorts so maybe not.

Vic




--- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "cedarman320 <cedarman320@y...>"
<cedarman320@y...> wrote:
> --- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Carpenter <jmcarp@a...>"
> <jmcarp@a...> wrote:
> >   I can't tell from your question if
> > the rings are "rocking" on the plate or if the plate
is "rocking" on
> > the Gibralter.
>
> The rings were rocking on the plate.  The plate is solid on the
> Gibraltar.  As you can see, Vic is helping.  I tried using the
> countersunk screws (Vic actually sent them w/ my 102D originally),
> but was unable to get the rig on the Gibraltar.  I had spoken w/
> David Owen a while back....it seem's he's using a different
version
> of the plate (w/ six holes....mine has 8, plus 2 more side-by-side
at
> the front), and I think I recall him actually using one
countersunk
> screw and one bolt.
>
> I seem to have it worked out now.....sort of.  I'm using the flat-
> head screws in the countesunk holes (holes 2 & 7, counting from
the
> back of the plate).  Plate is solid on the rings.  Holes 4 & 6 are
> the only threaded holes that match up w/ the Gibraltar, and I have
> nice bolts w/ large plastic handles for these.  With this scheme,
> everything seems to work, although I can't get the tube lower than
> appox. 22° because one of the brass tension knobs from the
Gibraltar
> binds up next to the ring.  It's making me nuts....not sure if I'm
> missing something, or this is just the way it is and my next move
is
> the Uni-mount.  I try reversing direction on the plate, but I
think I
> tried that before w/ no luck...I'm losing track.
>
>
> > I'll bite my tongue on the sticking to Dobsonians question, but
> maybe
> > Randy (a lover of clunky ol' Dobs) has a comment.
>
> LOL....maybe I'll start a support group w/ him!
>
> Thanks, Jim.
>
> Rick

--- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "cedarman320 <cedarman320@y...>"
<cedarman320@y...> wrote:
>  Should I stick to dobsonians????

No. Not unless you use double-faced tape. Otherwise, you should slide
right off. Ride 'em cowboy!

Randy--(Ok, I know that was too easy, but I gave the rest of you all
day to say it:>)

The weather finally cooperated a bit tonight and I was able to get a
huge number of Nighthawks and 80/9D's star tested. I also did one
102D and four 85S apos.

I always like to reward myself after doing this and tonight I
finsihed with an 85S so I took a peek at Saturn. I used a 7.5mm Tak
and a SV 2X barlow. Let me tell you that if it is clear any night
this next month you really need to reward yourselves by spending
some time with the most amazing object (as seen from earth)in the
solar system. Right now with the rings open wide Cassini's division
knocks you over. There was plenty of planetary surface markings to
be seen, not just the main band. Spectacular!

So I pointed over to Jupiter. Even though it was placed over the
building next door (we are located in a small industrial complex)
there was no boiling of the image. For those of you who are new at
this, you should never look over the top of a building or house when
observing planets as the roof will give off heat in the evening and
destroy any hope of seeing fleeting detail. In this case, I saw a
lot. Probably since the business was not open today - no heater
running. I saw multiple bands, some intricate festoon detail and, of
course, those 4 Medici planets encircling the gas giant.

Yeah that is what Galileo named them. Then the Medici family saw to
it that he had a distinguished title in Florence. So goes politics
back in 1610. Not much changes.

Regrading production: For the next several days we will have a storm
so I am hoping to work on the remainder of the 85S's. We have been
working on the assembly of 102D lenses this past month. They should
be finished and ready to install a week or so from now. Then will
then begin assembly of these the following week.

We may actually end up with a couple more 85S telescopes than we
have orders for in week or so. Order now if you want a reasonable
wait as when these lenses are gone, it is at least a month before I
get more. We plan to make good progress on the 102D wait list these
next few weeks. But both of these telescopes take a very long time
to assemble, align and test, so I cannot predict exactly how many we
will make and approve and exactly when they will be done. We just do
one after the other and these take varying amounts of time to
complete. But lots will be done this next month.

Vic Maris

Randy:

I do not do these typos just to tempt you. Honest!

Vic
(I never stuck to a Dob in my life but I did fall off a latter once.
Hit my head. Then I decided to start a telescope company)


>
> Regrading production: For the next........

--- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Roy <wrroy@b...>"
<wrroy@b...> wrote:
> --- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "cedarman320 <cedarman320@y...>"
> <cedarman320@y...> wrote:
> >  Should I stick to dobsonians????
>
> No. Not unless you use double-faced tape. Otherwise, you should
slide
> right off. Ride 'em cowboy!

ROTFLMAO
The tape gives me a rash....can I use silicone??
Let me whip this out.....the dob....the dob, of course!

Rick

--- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "cedarman320 <cedarman320@y...>"
<cedarman320@y...> wrote:
>
> The tape gives me a rash....can I use silicone??
> Let me whip this out.....the dob....the dob, of course!

Now we see what binds all of us Stellarvuers together. Great scopes
and bizarre senses of humor. Can we all agree that Mel Brooks'
masterpiece "Young Frankenstein" was the literary apex of the 20th
century?

Randy--"Werewolf, there wolf."

Hi Randy,

I personally think flip mirrors are great for many kinds of electronic
imaging, but clearly, they have little to offer when one likes to take
the step from 10-30 second snapshots of bright objects to long continuos
exposures of more challenging objects.

However, for Lunar/Planetary imaging, I do believe there is a niche for
flip mirrors that goes beyond the basics (centering and rough focusing),
because one may have a stronger need to monitor what's really going on
using the main optical system at regular intervals.

The reason is that I can not trust my SCT to keep accurate focus for any
extended period of time. The seeing can also change dramatically. I can
distinguish between bad seeing and bad focus visually, but I can not do
that just checking my monitor with the HX516 CCD, downloads are
reasonably fast, but they are certainly not comparable to real time video.

Just for reference, this is my SCT setup and a half decent pic of
Copernicus:

http://w1.884.telia.com/~u88403289/AUT_0005.JPG
http://w1.884.telia.com/~u88403289/coper_c.jpg

All the best !
Anders





Randy Roy wrote:

>--- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "cer01ca <ve7cer@s...>"
><ve7cer@s...> wrote:
>
>
>>Has anyone used a flip mirror system for photography that can give
>>
>>
>me
>
>
>>some pros and cons about it
>>
>>
>
>Charlie,
>
>The flip mirror is great for centering the object and achieving rough
>focus by parfocalizing the centering eyepiece. I consider them very
>useful for CCD imaging taking relatively short exposures, especially
>planets or for smaller DSOs, given the relatively small FOV afforded
>by most CCDs.
>
>For long exposure AP, IMO they have little to no utility. I think a
>guidescope is the best option for manual guiding, especially when
>using refractors (some use an off axis guider and I have, but it is a
>pain).
>
>One other good use for a flip mirror is for centering an object for
>video. It's not really necessary, but does make the task easier.
>
>Perhaps Jon and Stephen would comment. They are both more proficient
>than I with imaging and AP.
>
>Randy
>
>
>

--- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, Anders Hansson <anhn@t...> wrote:
>
> Just for reference, this is my SCT setup and a half decent pic of
> Copernicus:

Anders,

Very nice setup and Copernicus would be proud. Well done.

Randy

Thanks Randy !

I should add that the shot of Copernicus is a single 20ms exposure at f/10.

Anders


Randy Roy wrote:

>--- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, Anders Hansson <anhn@t...> wrote:
>
>
>>Just for reference, this is my SCT setup and a half decent pic of
>>Copernicus:
>>
>>
>
>Anders,
>
>Very nice setup and Copernicus would be proud. Well done.
>
>Randy
>
>
>
>

I just went through my calendar and realized that I've only had the
opportunity to be out observing a total of 3 times this year due to
weather (and the flu). This is ridiculous. I think I need to punt
this astronomy stuff and find a new hobby.....maybe stamp collecting.

David O.

This summer at Hidden Lakes, after you have looked through the new
Stellarvue 6" apo refractor I will ask you if you really think you
want to start stamp collecting.

Vic Maris


--- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "owenpa2001 <dowen0@a...>"
<dowen0@a...> wrote:
>
> I just went through my calendar and realized that I've only had
the
> opportunity to be out observing a total of 3 times this year due
to
> weather (and the flu). This is ridiculous. I think I need to punt
> this astronomy stuff and find a new hobby.....maybe stamp
collecting.
>
> David O.

-Reason for this post:
> I just went through my calendar and realized that I've only had the
> opportunity to be out observing a total of 3 times this year due to
> weather (and the flu). This is ridiculous. I think I need to punt
> this astronomy stuff and find a new hobby.....maybe stamp
collecting.
>
> David O.
------------------------
Let's all help David find a new activity. I've got the same problem
here in the Midwest. I'll conntribute a few things I've tried (or
thought about trying):

Counting the number of cars' names that end in "a"

Reasearch how they get the holes in macaroni

Commit "Jabberwocky" to memory

Develop an accurate list of all the scopes  Vic ain't making

Geneology - and why grandma doesn't talk about Uncle Al

Join specialized groups like "TORUSMIRRORGROUP"
and "TELESCOPE_OBSERVING_CHAIR"

QUIT making observing charts (just to throw them away - see reason
for this post above)

any others? - Rip

I went out to our dark site in the Everglades last night with the
local club. It was good to see old friends again that I last saw 6
months or so ago. I didn't want to take both scopes so I just took my
6" Newt. and left the 80/9DM at home.  Well, the FIRST thing they
said to me was, "Where's your refractor??"

Isn't it great to feel wanted??

Paul S.

>I just went through my calendar and realized that I've only had the
>opportunity to be out observing a total of 3 times this year due to
>weather (and the flu). This is ridiculous. I think I need to punt
>this astronomy stuff and find a new hobby.....maybe stamp collecting.


          Well at least youa re nto into model rocketry.  Teh new Patriot
Act int eh USA is on the verge of makign that hobby virtually illegal.  :(
joe




http://www.oneilphoto.on.ca
http://www.multiboard.com/~joneil
Una salus victis, nullam sperare salutem

David:

I know how you feel - I've had perhaps a handful of opportunities this year
[2003] so far due to weather/health/time, etc... I use radio as my alternate
hobby. I do a fair amount of shortwave broadcast listening - very interesting to
be able to hear voices from all over this little globe of ours.

Also, there are times when Jupiter "roars" around 20 MHz - I have only caught
this a few times nicely, but it is still astronomy - albiet simple radio
astronomy...

Chin up me lad! A few peeks with good conditions will have you feeling satisfied
once again! ;-)

D.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Model Rocketry... that's a great hobby also!

About 8 years back, I got into a sort of second adolescence for a time. I used
to do model rockets in secondary school, but this time, I wanted something
really good. I designed three different staged rockets, and with some math
[yeah, I like that stuff!], I came up with one design to actually break the
sonic barrier using the D-type engines. Those D engines are the largest readily
available in Canada.

It went sonic alright! ;-) I used a spray epoxy to coat the surfaces to make
them smoother [more aerodynamic] and stronger, yet still reasonably light
weight. My 2-stagers could easily go 3 km up using the long-burn D-engines. I
even tried a few rocket-launcher type single stage designs [like the 4 tube
launchers used in the military!]. Seeing 4 rockets launch within 0.5s of each
other is pretty wild! [I was a bit nuts back then ;-)]

During this 4 month time, it got me thinking about why terrorists waste so much
money on stingers when they could have a virtual and horrific arsenal using
larger E and F solid engines with perhaps 1/2 lb. of RDX or M-4 as a payload. I
would be easy to make, and very inexpensive. Even using simple RC [raido
controlled] servos, a larger 1 meter/1kg rocket could be directed without much
hassle...

This may be why this type of hobby is beign scrutinized now. Perhaps the CIA or
FBI found plans to this effect?

  Darren.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Last night (February 28th, 2003) I went out observing with a
colleague from
the Geography department to a fairly dark site on the south side of
Pohorje
mountain, near Areh, about 800 meters above sea level (just south of
Maribor-
-about 400 km south of Vienna).

I brought my AT1010 and binoculars and Igor brought his binoculars,
star
charts, and red flashlight.

We started observing about 9:00 p.m. The first thing we looked at was
M81
and M82 in Ursa Major, both clearly visible in the same field of view
using a
28 mm eyepiece (3.21 deg. f.o.v.), although the sky to the north was
very
bright from the lights on the ski run on the other side of the
mountain. Then we
turned to M51 (which I hadnÕt seen before), also quite easy to
find and clearly
visible.

After about 9:15, the ski lghts were turned off, and it was much
easier to see to
the north. We turned to M31 and M32, which were low on the western
horizon,
but still big and bright, even though from where the telescope was
situated,
we had to view through the branches of a tree. We tried to find M33
in
Triangulum. Igor said he could see it, although it was very dim, but
I couldnÕt
see it in either binoculars or the telescope. It was very low on the
horizon, and
there was still quite a bit of skyglow.

We turned to the south and viewed Saturn and Jupiter high overhead. I
thought I could see the Cassini division using a 4 mm eyepiece (120x)
although Igor said he didnÕt think he could. We could clearly see
Titan and two
cloud bands on Jupiter, and its moons, however. In the same field of
view as
Jupiter was M44, the Beehive cluster, and just a little below, to the
south east,
M67. M67 looked better through the telescope than M44, which was
large and
grainy, and more than filled the field of view (with a 28 mm
eyepiece).
Through the binoculars, though, (7 deg. f.o.v.) Jupiter and M44 were
spectacular.

We then turned a bit to the west and viewed M42, M43 and M78 in
Orion, and
M41 in Canis Major.

We turned back to the east and viewed M66 in Leo, and M64 in Coma
Berenices (another two I had not seen before).

We also viewed M3 in Bootes. We then spent quite a while searching
for
M104 in Virgo. With no bright stars nearby, it was hard to find with
the red dot
finder. I kept thinking I could glimpse it in the binoculars, but by
then the
numbness from the cold was creeping upward from my feet to my brain,
and I
had trouble keeping the position clearly in mind wen switching from
the
binoculars to the telescope. I was getting ready to give up when Igor
finally
found it using the 28mm eyepiece. It was very hard to distinguish,
but when
we slipped in a 14mm, the higher contrast brought it out nicely.
After M33, this
was the most difficult object of the evening.

The last object we viewed was M13 in Hercules, which was just rising
over the
eastern horizon. By this time it was about 11.45 p.m., and my feet
were
freezing, so we called it a night. During the course of the evening I
also saw
six meteors, three through the eyepiece, and three with the naked
eye. I had
seen many Messier objects I had never seen before, and certainly more
than I
had ever seen in a single nightÕs observing.

There were two surprises that evening: Igor told me he was surprised
to be
able to see so many DSOs, so clearly, in such a small scope. I was
amazed
that he knew the sky so well, owning only a pair of binoculars.

--- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Roy <wrroy@b...>"
<wrroy@b...> wrote:
> --- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "cedarman320 <cedarman320@y...>"
> <cedarman320@y...> wrote:
> >  Should I stick to dobsonians????
>
> No. Not unless you use double-faced tape. Otherwise, you should
slide
> right off. Ride 'em cowboy!
>
> Randy--(Ok, I know that was too easy, but I gave the rest of you
all
> day to say it:>)

Randy:

Velcro works also. And if you're especially hairy, you only need one
side!

David O.

Vic:

I'll bring a stamp with  me and we can set it up on a stump on the
other side of the lake and take turns looking at it through the
scope. It'll be a thrilling moment indeed...I can hardly wait! Line
forms behind me!

David O.

Obviously just kidding.

--- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "stellarvue1 <vic@s...>"
<vic@s...> wrote:
> This summer at Hidden Lakes, after you have looked through the new
> Stellarvue 6" apo refractor I will ask you if you really think you
> want to start stamp collecting.
>
> Vic Maris
>
>
> --- In Stellarvue@yahoogroups.com, "owenpa2001 <dowen0@a...>"
> <dowen0@a...> wrote:
> >
> > I just went through my calendar and realized that I've only had
> the
> > opportunity to be out observing a total of 3 times this year due
> to
> > weather (and the flu). This is ridiculous. I think I need to punt
> > this astronomy stuff and find a new hobby.....maybe stamp
> collecting.
> >
> > David O.