Some of the choices in Canon models are vastly superior to the W1, but at the
same time there are variations in the different models. I would never say that
my SD870 is as good as the SX10 or G11. In all cases the SDM CRW/DNG files are
superior to work with, even next to the same JPG files right out of the cameras.
The CR2 files from the G11 are amazing in the detail you can pull in an editor.
The key is always what your final viewing method is going to be. They all look
good on the Acer 3D laptop, and definitely in standard Holmes stereoviews.
Enlarging them to 11x14 prints is where I see significant issues.

Given a choice, I would rather have the SDM files as archive material for the
advancements coming in display technology. But I do have both and I keep them
safely archived.

Mike

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "George Themelis" <george@...> wrote:
>
> > 1. Vastly superior still image quality - this was the real dealbreaker for
> > me with the W1. I felt like I was taking pictures with my phone
>
> With all due respect, this is a bit of exaggeration.  There might be some
> truth to it, but comparing W1 with pictures taken with a phone is a bit of a
> stretch, IMO.  I have been personally very pleased with the W1.  You can say
> that I my standards are very low, but my previous history with film
> photography does not support this view.  Maybe my digital viewing methods
> are inferior.  Also, I also don't take pictures with my phone to have a
> standard for comparison.

This is exactly my point.  The viewing digital viewing methods right now are a
bit crude and fairly low resolution, but my hope is that soon there will be
viewing methods that can show the quality of the pictures.

I wasn't trying to start a SDM v W1 war, I was just trying to express my
contentment with my SDM rig.  Perhaps I had a bum W1, or perhaps my standards
are too high, but I think it's important for people doing research to know that
there is an alternative to the W1 if you don't mind a bit of awkwardness (which
I was trying to reduce with my switch mod).

Ryan!

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "MikeB" <mbittner@...> wrote:
>
> Some of the choices in Canon models are vastly superior to the W1, but at the
same time there are variations in the different models. I would never say that
my SD870 is as good as the SX10 or G11. In all cases the SDM CRW/DNG files are
superior to work with, even next to the same JPG files right out of the cameras.
The CR2 files from the G11 are amazing in the detail you can pull in an editor.
The key is always what your final viewing method is going to be. They all look
good on the Acer 3D laptop, and definitely in standard Holmes stereoviews.
Enlarging them to 11x14 prints is where I see significant issues.
>
> Given a choice, I would rather have the SDM files as archive material for the
advancements coming in display technology. But I do have both and I keep them
safely archived.
>
> Mike

Another option you could consider would be to get a pair of cameras that have a
higher frame rate.  That way you'd have guaranteed sync within 1/2 the frame
rate so long as you don't mind lining it up in a video editor.

Ryan!

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "ryanlsimms" <potatoes@...> wrote:
>
> Another option you could consider would be to get a pair of cameras that have
a higher frame rate.  That way you'd have guaranteed sync within 1/2 the frame
rate so long as you don't mind lining it up in a video editor.

My experience with LANC cams (and TX1) is that it's a good idea to check frame
alignment anyway, so that's probably no penalty.  Although my HF-S11 gets it
exact most of the time, I have seen a few 1 frame offsets.

Also, isn't the most you can really go with this on a prosumer-cost camera
system 60p?  I agree that may help with some shots (< 1/120 error vs. < 1/60
with 30p).  Still, not good enuf for real action (where I try for < 1/1000). 
And I wonder how 60p AVCHD looks compared with 30p?  If AVCHD is maxed out at
24Mbps, say, 30p will have many more bits per frame, in simple thinking.  In
addition, it's pretty hard to play back full HD 3D in 60p, so won't you have to
decimate too?

John

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "ryanlsimms" <potatoes@...> wrote:
>

> I wasn't trying to start a SDM vs W1 war, I was just trying to express my
contentment with my SDM rig.


There have been plenty of SDM vs W1 wars already and I must confess I started
many of them ! ;-)

But I am the first to admit that an integrated digital stereo camera removes a
lot of the hassle out of taking stereo pictures. For one thing, ease of use is a
key factor in acceptance of the medium.  Furthermore, in actual use, integrated
controls allow for much faster candid shooting.

Even though I passed on the W1, I certainly would be a taker if a more
feature-packed integrated stereo camera came along - one that gave me direct
access to manual controls and produced higher quality images - a camera very
much along the lines of the proposed 3DInLife HDC-810.

I own an Olympus SP-350 that has many of the features found on DSLRs but in a
tiny package.  A stereo version of such a camera would be a dream come true. 
The design of the HDC-810 is very close to that.

The point of SDM is that we can get greater image quality than with the only
available digital stereo camera (W1) NOW, but it is much more work and is
therefore not for everyone.  Anyhow, anyone needing an interaxial larger than
normal will have no option but to choose SDM.  But I fully understand those that
love and defend the ease of use of their W1.

Francois














   Perhaps I had a bum W1, or perhaps my standards are too high, but I think it's
important for people doing research to know that there is an alternative to the
W1 if you don't mind a bit of awkwardness (which I was trying to reduce with my
switch mod).
>
> Ryan!
>
> --- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "MikeB" <mbittner@> wrote:
> >
> > Some of the choices in Canon models are vastly superior to the W1, but at
the same time there are variations in the different models. I would never say
that my SD870 is as good as the SX10 or G11. In all cases the SDM CRW/DNG files
are superior to work with, even next to the same JPG files right out of the
cameras. The CR2 files from the G11 are amazing in the detail you can pull in an
editor. The key is always what your final viewing method is going to be. They
all look good on the Acer 3D laptop, and definitely in standard Holmes
stereoviews. Enlarging them to 11x14 prints is where I see significant issues.
> >
> > Given a choice, I would rather have the SDM files as archive material for
the advancements coming in display technology. But I do have both and I keep
them safely archived.
> >
> > Mike
>

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "depthcam" <depthcam@...> wrote:
>
> There have been plenty of SDM vs W1 wars already and I must confess I started
many of them ! ;-)
>

It puzzles me what the benefits of taking emotional advocacy to the extremes of
a "war" are.

Would it not be better to recommend and advise through sharing?

I don't benefit from "Your camera is crap" posts.

I am encouraged, however, by the detailed image of the HC-810, only 2 weeks from
the release, to be found here:

http://www.3dshop.eu/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=77&osCsid=abcb3d9effc5\
f2ad5f45adae99b87428

At last, a 3-D camera to produce cartoons!  ;-)

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "toychinook" <allanwx@...> wrote:
>
> Would it not be better to recommend and advise through sharing?

I think that's exactly what has been done most of the time:  comparing the
advantages and disadvantages of each.  The flare-ups usually occur when the
image quality produced by the W1 is called into question.


> I am encouraged, however, by the detailed image of the HC-810, only 2 weeks
from the release, to be found here:
>
>
http://www.3dshop.eu/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=77&osCsid=abcb3d9effc5\
f2ad5f45adae99b87428
>
> At last, a 3-D camera to produce cartoons!  ;-)


Well, that sounds like a "your camera is a cartoon" comment ! ;-)

If you care to find out more about it, you should go directly to the 3D Inlife
website and also to the HDC810 forum.

There are many pictures of the actual prototype and Werner has seen and handled
it.  But that is a prototype only... and a non-working one.  As I have pointed
out in the Photo 3D forum, that camera is still only at the prototype stage and
may not be available (if ever) until early 2011 (that May 15 date is grossly
inaccurate).  A simpler p&s model, the SDC-820, should however be introduced by
3D InLife later this year (as I also described on Photo 3D).  More information
can be found in the HDC-810 group.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HDC-810_3DInLife/

Francois

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "depthcam" <depthcam@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Well, that sounds like a "your camera is a cartoon" comment ! ;-)
>
>   But that is a prototype only... and a non-working one....

I appreciate your comments on "Camera Wars" and it may be just a matter of
tone...

Still, I ask, how "good" must each half of a stereo pair really be since viewing
methods require (and demand) so little?

And, as far as the "camera is cartoon" comment, nothing beats a non-working
prototype!

;-)

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "toychinook" <allanwx@...> wrote:
>
> Still, I ask, how "good" must each half of a stereo pair really be since
viewing methods require (and demand) so little?
>

That's a personal choice.  Some people are very happy with a lower quality image
for the reasons you stated.  I think the frustration for others is that they
would have liked to see in the W1 an image quality that is on par with that
obtained with Canon cameras.


> And, as far as the "camera is cartoon" comment, nothing beats a non-working
prototype!
>

I don't quite agree.  What I like about the HDC-810 is the design, the
ergonomics and the exposure control knob.  It has a nice handle grip, it has a
hotshoe and it has manual controls.  As I mentioned previously, it has a
configuration very similar to an Olympus SP-350 - a versatile camera that I very
much enjoy.  If the W1 had the body of the HDC-810, I would buy it right away !

Francois

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Aldridge" <Bob@...> wrote:

> If the W1 had the body of the HDC-810, I would buy it right away !
>

> How interesting!


I was of course kidding ! ;-)

>
> In the past (and, again, in this message) it's been the image quality that's
> put you off.


Still does !

>
> Now, despite that, if Fujifilm had made it look different you would have
> bought it?
>

I am not talking about "looks" but about ergomics and characteristics.  The W1
has no handle grip, no hot shoe and no exposure dial - all characteristics that
are found on my beloved SP-350 and on the HDC-810.  Surely, if the W1 had the
ergonomics and features (hot shoe, mode dial) of the HDC-810, it would have been
more appealing to me than it's current p&s embodiment.


> Me, I'd rather buy the camera that exists now than the one that may exist in
> the future.

As I have said in previous posts, I fully understand your position.  The thing
you should keep in mind is that I have an SDM rig that is mounted into "Rick's
faceplate".  This essentially makes it "feel" like an integrated 3D camera.  The
release device doubles as a handle grip and there is no danger of my fingers
getting in the way of the lenses because they are far away from the camera
edges.

True, it takes a bit more effort in setting up a shot than it would with an
intergrated stereo camera like the W1.  And yes, I do dream of a stereo camera
that handles as rapidly as a 2D one.  But the W1 does not offer me enough
advantages over my current rig to justify the extra expense.  That is my
personal choice (which is also based on financial considerations).


And I certainly wouldn't pin my hopes on a design which (if
> track record is anything to go by) may look completely different if it ever
> reaches the marketplace!
>

As far as I am concerned, I'll stick to my current working SDM rig as long as
the 3D cameras that are available don't offer me substantially more than I
already have.  Whatever form that takes we'll find out when (and if) other
stereo cameras are introduced.  The HDC-810 design merely serves as a good
example of the type of stereo camera I would like.

Francois

> The key is always what your final viewing method is going to be. They all
> look good on the Acer 3D laptop, and definitely in standard Holmes
> stereoviews. Enlarging them to 11x14 prints is where I see significant
> issues.

I don't see myself making 11x14 prints, so I think I am OK.

> Given a choice, I would rather have the SDM files as archive material for
> the advancements coming in display technology.

I tend to live for today, not tomorrow, that's why I never used Kodachrome
and do not regret using a Stereo Realist for 10 years. I had a blast with
the Realist, later with the RBT S1, and now with the W1.  And since I do not
market my pictures, I only have to please myself and I am certainly very
pleased with what I see.

The W1 pictures look good in the Acer 3D and the club's screen. I win awards
in our club (I am finishing in first place in two stereo clubs) and have
beaten fair and square my main competitor who's using SDM (Allan will say
that it is the photographer, not the camera, I think it is both :)).

I especially like the fact that I can run races with the W1 in my hands and
take 3d pictures while running, which combines my two main interests right
now and documents a significant part of my life.   I can also give the
camera to my wife who can use it without complaining :) so now I have 3d
pictures of myself too!  Convenience and ease-of-use are more important for
me than tomorrow's need for better quality.  But that's me.

George

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "George Themelis" <george@...> wrote:
>...
> (Allan will say that it is the photographer, not the camera, I think it is
both :)).
>...

Hmmm... a photographer without a camera...

Is that like Radio?

... Poetry?

... Imagination?

"The best camera is the one you have with you."

Click on, George!

But... a camera without a photographer...

Sounds like SDM with motion detection script!  ;-)

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "depthcam" <depthcam@...> wrote:
>...
>The HDC-810 design merely serves as a good example of the type of stereo camera
I would like.
>

I am curious as to whether 3D InLife has any 3D products that are actually
available.

Thanks.

I finished to update SDM into my SD card.
It worked perfectly with 'version up' button of SDM installer.
The SDM installer copied & overwrite with the latest version.

After update version and all photos are still exist in SD card.
[I thought before that the installer will format or install from scratch]

cheers
Iful

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, Syaiful Bahri <iful_17sb@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Werner & Carlos
>
> Thanks a lot for your swift reply.
> I will inform you the result
>
> regards
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "wbloos@..." <wbloos@...>
> To: StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, 29 April, 2010 21:59:16
> Subject: Re: [StereoDataMaker] how to update SDM with latest version
>
> not correct - SDM will update the CFG file when the new version is
> loaded and you do any changes in SDM configuration using the SDM menu.
> The incompatibility is only due to the changed language files thats why
> I wrote that you need to exchange the language files if you are using a
> different language - the strange manus are due to wrong language files.
>
> greetings
> Werner
>
>
>
>
> JoseCarlos Fernandez Gutierrez schrieb:
> >
> >
> > No really sure, but I think that I had to change the CFG file as the
> > CFG for 1.83 is not compatible with CFG for 1.80.
> >
> > If you see strange menus or wrong screen layout, then the best is to
> > start from scratch.
> >
> > /Carlos
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:20 AM, wbloos@...
> > <mailto:wbloos@...> <wbloos@... <mailto:wbloos@...>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >     Hi,
> >
> >     for updating your SDM version you only need to copy and replace the
> >     'diskboot.bin' file (using drag and drop or copy paste function of
> >     Windows explorer). If you have configured a different language than
> >     English in your configuration file you also need to replace the LANG
> >     directory with the new one from 'common_files' found in the CHDK
> >     folder.
> >
> >     greetings
> >     Werner
> >
> >     Ari schrieb:
> >
> >
> >     > Hi
> >     >
> >     > My apologize if this is a repetitive topic but I didn't find at
> >     previous postings.
> >     >
> >     > Currently, I use SDM 1.80 ( in 590is), and plan to update to
> >     1.83. could you show me a topic number or link which explain how
> >     to update SDM without installing from scratch.
> >     >
> >     > I know that in 'SDM installer', there is 'version up' button if
> >     we insert the card in card reader of PC.
> >     > How to use it?
> >     > and which file need to be replaced/updated in 'common_files'
> >     folder?.
> >     >
> >     > Thanks in advance.
> >     >
> >     > Regards
> >     > Iful
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > ------------------------------------
> >     >
> >     > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "bnicholson123" <bnicholson123@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I am new to photography and don't know very much about aperture, ISO and other
settings for taking an image where the camera(A470) is moving.  My research
suggests that an aperture of 1/250 should be adequate and setting the iso to
auto would be best.  I am trying to write a script that incorporates this and I
hope to get this right since I have only one shot. any help would be great
> thanks,
> Brian
>
just these days someone did a 35km ballon-trip with a canon compact. nasa asked
if he used a rocket..... maybe someone can find a link. camera came back with
parachute a gps-tracking.
wasnt there a discussion how to get stereoeffect? why not view the 3dimages by
90 degr.
michael p

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "toychinook" <allanwx@...> wrote:
>

> >The HDC-810 design merely serves as a good example of the type of stereo
camera I would like.
> >
>
> I am curious as to whether 3D InLife has any 3D products that are actually
available.
>
> Thanks.


3DInLife started out by manufacturing a 3D camera that was shaped something like
binoculars.  I think it is still being offered by Berezin.  According to
reports, the video resolution was somewhat low although the still resolution was
acceptable.  The problem is that this camera was already dated by the time it
reached US distributors.

As Bob mentioned, they do have their own autostereoscopic screen rivaling the
Fuji V1.  I believe that Bob actually tested both and found the 3D InLife
version had a slight edge over the V1.  (Correct me if I am wrong, Bob.)

Again, I emphasize that companies like 3D InLife are small enterprises that only
exist because their founders are themselves 3D enthusiasts.  They do not have
unlimited funds like large Japanese companies have.  So it's no surprise, given
the cost of R&D, that they should take more time to get a product to market.  I
remain amazed by the determination and ambition such a small company has and do
wish them success.

That said, I am not setting my hopes on any specific camera given that there is
no certainty that any other stereo camera will ever be marketed.  The point is
that 3D InLife is among the few manufacturers so far that has publicly stated
that it will produce other digital stereo cameras and has shown actual
prototypes. (The other being Samsung.)

Francois

In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "toychinook" <allanwx@...> wrote:
.

>>That said, I am not setting my hopes on any specific camera given that there
is no certainty that any other stereo camera will ever be marketed. The point is
that 3D InLife is among the few manufacturers so far that has publicly stated
that it will produce other digital stereo cameras and has shown actual
prototypes. (The other being Samsung.)>>

I was at a Sony 3d television demo last week where they said they
would have consumer Cybershot 3d still cameras by Xmas 2010 and the
range would be announced shortly .. but I dont know if they have shown
any prototypes. There is also the DXG stereo video/still camera. They
have shown prototypes on that a couple of times.
http://gizmodo.com/5448061/this-400-3d-camera-may-not-be-james-cameron-approved

Peter M

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Aldridge" <Bob@...> wrote:
>
> Yes - their autostereoscopic picture frame is actually quite nice - though
> formatting stuff for it isn't quite as easy as it could be.
>

Is it what Fuji sells with their name on it?

For the sake of general interest, the current issue of Newsweek has an article
by Roger Ebert about why he "hates" 3-D...

For your peruasl:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/237110

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, Peter Murphy <mediavr@...> wrote:
>
> In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "toychinook" <allanwx@> wrote:
> .
>
> >>That said, I am not setting my hopes on any specific camera given...

Quotes are being attributed to me which are not mine...  :-)

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "depthcam" <depthcam@...> wrote:
>
>...The point is that 3D InLife is among the few manufacturers so far that has
publicly stated that it will produce other digital stereo cameras and has shown
actual prototypes. (The other being Samsung.)
>

I appreciate and value their efforts, but in order for me to "meet them half
way" and buy their products, they have to come out of the gate.

anyone worked out proper settings etc to get video onto the InLife screen?

M



--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Aldridge" <Bob@...> wrote:
>
> No. The V1 is 800 x 600 whilst the 3D Inlife is 800 x 480 so the V1 is a
> slightly better match, proportion wise, to the W1 camera's native
> resolution.
>
>
>
> However, the the 3D InLife has a built in battery that is lacking on the V1.
>
>
>
> Bob Aldridge
>
>
>
> From: StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toychinook
> Sent: 05 May 2010 05:24
> To: StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [StereoDataMaker] Re: A bird in the hand...
>
>
> --- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:StereoDataMaker%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bob Aldridge" <Bob@> wrote:
> >
> > Yes - their autostereoscopic picture frame is actually quite nice - though
> > formatting stuff for it isn't quite as easy as it could be.
> >
>
> Is it what Fuji sells with their name on it?
>

Hello

Is SDM and a remote working with the 7D yet?

Someone has the set up? How are video results?

Cheers

M

Yeah, but my SDM images look incredible on the Acer. And that's why it's good to
have choices. We have David to thank for that here.

Different strokes.

Mike

--- In StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com, "George Themelis" <george@...> wrote:

> The W1 pictures look good in the Acer 3D and the club's screen. I win awards
> in our club (I am finishing in first place in two stereo clubs) and have
> beaten fair and square my main competitor who's using SDM (Allan will say
> that it is the photographer, not the camera, I think it is both :)).
>
> I especially like the fact that I can run races with the W1 in my hands and
> take 3d pictures while running, which combines my two main interests right
> now and documents a significant part of my life.   I can also give the
> camera to my wife who can use it without complaining :) so now I have 3d
> pictures of myself too!  Convenience and ease-of-use are more important for
> me than tomorrow's need for better quality.  But that's me.
>
> George
>

Same situation here as for the 500D/550D (Rebel *).

Even if it's probably a low risk, there is some risk involved while
testing out a "firmware" that is hooked into the boot sequence of the
camera.
This combined with these high end cameras are more expensive and
therefore not used by a large number of stereo photographers, is
probably one of the main resons why there is no SDM för these cameras.

Also keep in mind that these cameras most likely can be twinned in
other ways. At least 500D can. I know. I also have heard that wireless
remote triggers might work. However, the sensor is on the front side of
the camera, so it may not be approperiate.. And the synchronization
might be a problem. Unsure if the original Canon wireless remote can be
used to fire several cameras simultaniously...  I have remote triggers,
but have not tested this yet with 500D.

Regards
/Johan


----Ursprungligt meddelande----
Från: blackice@...
Datum: 2010-05-05 10:55
Till: <StereoDataMaker@yahoogroups.com>
Ärende: [StereoDataMaker] working with 7D

Hello

Is SDM and a remote working with the 7D yet?

Someone has the set up? How are video results?

Cheers

M