Hi All,

As some of you know, in recent years there has been a star party every
Spring sponsored by Steve Coe and the Saguaro Astronomy Club, held at
Sentinel, AZ, which is about 80 miles East of Yuma.

I wrote to Steve asking about this year's event, and below is his
response. Last year's event was partly cloudy, but the year before that
was fantastic. I'm going to keep a close watch on the Sentinel Dark Sky
Clock, and if it looks good, that's where I will be next month.

\Paul A.

Paul;

Let me tell you how it is.  I have moved the "official" Sentinel-Schwaar
Star Gaze to November just to get away from the fact that there is a lot
going on in the Spring.

BUT--we are considering a run to Sentinel and will certainly have lots
of folks out there observing on Feb. 20 and 21.  It will not be the
official star party, however, I have no doubt that there will be 20 to
30 or so observers besides you guys.  We would love to have you.

That is the plan, let me know what you are looking to do;
Steve Coe

Author "Deep Sky Observing--The Astronomical Tourist"
Saguaro Astronomy Club website
www.saguaroastro.org

...Sort of reminds me of the Woody Allen saying ³I wouldnıt
want to be a member of a club that would have me as a member.²  <g>

Curt


Curt,

Actually, it was Groucho Marx that said that...

He also said, "I have a mind to join a club and beat you over the head
with it" and a lot of other funnies...

\Paul A

On 2/1/04 11:32 PM, "Paul Alsing" <palsing@...> wrote:

> Actually, it was Groucho Marx that said that...
>
I could have sworn that was Woody Allen.  In fact I have been saying that
for years :(
On the other hand maybe he did and was just a good plagarist.  And who
better to plagarize than Groucho.  He had so much good material.

Thanks for the correction...

Curt


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Woody Allen quotes Groucho Marx in the voiceover intro to the movei,
Annie Hall.

Cheers,
Paul Sterngold

--- Curt Wittenberg <curtwitt@...> wrote:
> On 2/1/04 11:32 PM, "Paul Alsing" <palsing@...> wrote:
>
> > Actually, it was Groucho Marx that said that...
> >
> I could have sworn that was Woody Allen.  In fact I have been saying
> that
> for years :(
> On the other hand maybe he did and was just a good plagarist.  And who
> better to plagarize than Groucho.  He had so much good material.
>
> Thanks for the correction...
>
> Curt
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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On 2/2/04 9:01 AM, "Paul Sterngold" <psterngold@...> wrote:

> Woody Allen quotes Groucho Marx in the voiceover intro to the movei,
> Annie Hall.
>
> Cheers,
> Paul Sterngold

Ah ha, my sanity is preserved...

Thanks Paul,

Curt


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for posting this, Paul A.

I'm interested but would prefer to carpool with someone or caravan. Is
anyone else from SD/OC thinking of attending? I have a van and would be
willing to carpool, or otherwise caravan.

What are the camping conditions there? Proximity to water (natural or
bought)? Toilets of any sort? Food/groceries? Other amenities? Thanks.

Cheers,
Paul Sterngold


__________________________________
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John,
Honestly, no need for a freebie -- I'd be happy to do it, and keep the dues
going towards park fees, etc.  Money well spent :)

It makes a lot of sense for my usual imaging routine, anyway -- once I'm set up,
focused, and taking images, everything's automated so I frequently have lots of
sit-around-socialize time.  I could just as well spend that time minding the
entrance, no biggie!

Paul


-----Original Message-----
From: optaspres [mailto:optaspres@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 9:21 AM
To: TAC_South@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TAC_South] Re: LBV Late arrival lighting issue


Paul, That is great news I can start a free year membership to OPTAS
members for volunteer work at the entrance to LBV. Thanks Paul I'm
sure Ric will like the change and also for giving me this idea. You
will be the first to trial this procedure. When you get your renewal
form contact me for the freebee. This is available for all members.

WOW this is going to work out great!!

PS: I am changing my Yahoo user group ID to optaspres to make things
more related to the club for people reading these messages.

John

--- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "Paul LeFevre" <lefevre@m...> wrote:
> John,
> Assuming my travel schedule lightens up and I'll make it out more
come spring and summer...
> I'd be happy to spell Ric once in a while on guard duty.  Taking
turns would make a lot of sense :)
>
> Paul
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jwillardowns [mailto:jwillardowns@y...]
> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 8:31 AM
> To: TAC_South@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [TAC_South] LBV Late arrival lighting issue
>
>
> Looks like I have all the signs and areas set aside for the next
star
> party and it also looks like our own Ric Ecker is going to setup
> close to the entrance to LBV and monitor the late incoming traffic
if
> any. Ric said he hates being away from the main imaging group but
for
> OPTAS and dark skies he would volunteer. Putting Ric at the
entrance
> is like having a Pit Bull in your front yard, we have used Ric's
> talents for years in crowd control at many activities and RTMC.
> Thanks are in order for the original OPTAS President Ric, he might
> just save the day or the night I should say.
>
> John (OPTAS)
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TAC_South/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  TAC_South-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TAC_South/

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  TAC_South-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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Hi Paul-



Sentinel is a lot like LBV as far as conditions go. It's Sonoran with cinder
cone. The road in is a little better than out at LBV. When the Saguaro club
is putting on the "real" party they had porta potties out there but
otherwise there are bushes to do your business behind. No water at the site
but there's a little gas station/store maybe two miles back up the road. The
store closes early, maybe six, so forget stopping for provisions there if
you're driving out from San Diego after work on a weekday. Not much in the
way of food there anyhow, just snacks. I can't recall if there's water
available after they close but there is a soda machine outside.



Sentinel is primitive camping but the horizons are very good, it's dark save
for the Phoenix light-dome to the NE, and offers some nifty side hikes.
Don't miss the biggest darned Saguaro I've ever seen.



Bill



   _____

From: Paul Sterngold [mailto:psterngold@...]
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 10:10 AM
To: TAC_South@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TAC_South] OBSERVING AT SENTINEL, ARIZONA



Thanks for posting this, Paul A.

I'm interested but would prefer to carpool with someone or caravan. Is
anyone else from SD/OC thinking of attending? I have a van and would be
willing to carpool, or otherwise caravan.

What are the camping conditions there? Proximity to water (natural or
bought)? Toilets of any sort? Food/groceries? Other amenities? Thanks.

Cheers,
Paul Sterngold


__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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   _____

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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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<mailto:TAC_South-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Bill,

Bite your tongue young man; you know there is no place like LBV when
it comes to "conditions" ;-)  We've all frozen our tails off there
during the winter when the temps dip into the teens.  Just part of
the "badge of honor" worn by us LBV'ers.  I'd guess the Sentinel area
doesn't get as cold as LBV, being more flat and open than the bowl of
Little Blair.

You mentioned hikes in the Sentinel area.  I remember doing one just
east of there (off the Spot Road exit) into the Barry Goldwater
Bombing Range to bag the highpoint of the Aguila Mountains.  The
highpoint was about 7 miles into the range.  We thought we picked a
quiet day on the range but were badly mistaken.  A-10 Warthogs and
fighters from Davis Monthan were screaming over our heads right above
the deck.  You could see the helmets of the pilots and admire all of
the heavy armaments hanging off the bottom of the wings.  When we got
to the summit we spent about a half hour watching them drop their
bombs in the stil further east (and a little south) Crater Range.
Now that was an interesting hike; maybe a bit stupid too.

Dave Jurasevich


--- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Dean" <billdean@c...> wrote:
> Hi Paul-
>
>
>
> Sentinel is a lot like LBV as far as conditions go. It's Sonoran
with cinder
> cone. The road in is a little better than out at LBV. When the
Saguaro club
> is putting on the "real" party they had porta potties out there but
> otherwise there are bushes to do your business behind. No water at
the site
> but there's a little gas station/store maybe two miles back up the
road. The
> store closes early, maybe six, so forget stopping for provisions
there if
> you're driving out from San Diego after work on a weekday. Not much
in the
> way of food there anyhow, just snacks. I can't recall if there's
water
> available after they close but there is a soda machine outside.
>
>
>
> Sentinel is primitive camping but the horizons are very good, it's
dark save
> for the Phoenix light-dome to the NE, and offers some nifty side
hikes.
> Don't miss the biggest darned Saguaro I've ever seen.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Paul Sterngold [mailto:psterngold@y...]
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 10:10 AM
> To: TAC_South@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [TAC_South] OBSERVING AT SENTINEL, ARIZONA
>
>
>
> Thanks for posting this, Paul A.
>
> I'm interested but would prefer to carpool with someone or caravan.
Is
> anyone else from SD/OC thinking of attending? I have a van and
would be
> willing to carpool, or otherwise caravan.
>
> What are the camping conditions there? Proximity to water (natural
or
> bought)? Toilets of any sort? Food/groceries? Other amenities?
Thanks.
>
> Cheers,
> Paul Sterngold
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
>
>   _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TAC_South/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> TAC_South-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:TAC_South-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 2/3/04 1:00 PM, "Dave Jurasevich" <howldog@...> wrote:

> Bite your tongue young man; you know there is no place like LBV when
> it comes to "conditions" ;-)  We've all frozen our tails off there
> during the winter when the temps dip into the teens.  Just part of
> the "badge of honor" worn by us LBV'ers.

Well, Dave, the badge gets bigger.  December 27/28 it got down to 8.6 F.  I
think that was my limit.  And the bombing range badge I donıt think I even
want to compete for. Iıll settle for LBV Cold over Sentinel Crazy! My badge
is big enough. <g>

Curt





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Curt,

Yeah, I heard about that December star party from John Downs.  I'm
glad I missed it <g>.  Actually, I was in southern Arizona with my
wife and kids on vacation and we had a very cold night just outside
of Tucson about then.  As I recall it set something like a 40 year
low record temperature one night, like around 13° F.  That's still
balmy compared to LBV.

Dave

--- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, Curt Wittenberg <curtwitt@c...>
wrote:
> On 2/3/04 1:00 PM, "Dave Jurasevich" <howldog@f...> wrote:
>
> > Bite your tongue young man; you know there is no place like LBV
when
> > it comes to "conditions" ;-)  We've all frozen our tails off there
> > during the winter when the temps dip into the teens.  Just part of
> > the "badge of honor" worn by us LBV'ers.
>
> Well, Dave, the badge gets bigger.  December 27/28 it got down to
8.6 F.  I
> think that was my limit.  And the bombing range badge I donıt think
I even
> want to compete for. Iıll settle for LBV Cold over Sentinel Crazy!
My badge
> is big enough. <g>
>
> Curt
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hiya Dave-



Good point on the cold at LBV. It's one funky-cold place come winter, one
you'd better be damned well prepared to stay in. And let's not forget the
summer heat while we're at it! I don't know how I managed to make it through
those three-night weekends out there in July and August but I gotta tell you
that first Shingletown star party damn near would have killed me (or the
drive each way) if I hadn't been toughened up plenty by the Anza-Borrego.



I see the guys heading out towards the range all the time including slow
orbits in the dark. Last year Paul and Debbie gave me the heads up to look
down at the ground and sure enough there's tons of 50 caliber brass strewn
across the desert around Sentinel. I didn't get to make it too far afield
this year but my buddy Brian roams all over the place and recommends it
highly for desert ratting. Unspoiled areas abound but I never seem to have
the free time to get out and I don't like getting too far back in the sand
without another vehicle or at least 4WD- I've spent a couple of days digging
myself out time and time again just to get back to work on time for Monday
after a nice "relaxing" weekend. Or waiting a day for a wash to dry out
enough to get across. Fun in the sun..



It's snowing in the mountains outside of town with lightning and the whole
shootin' match. I used to dig heading out for a few days in that stuff.



Bill







   _____

From: Dave Jurasevich [mailto:howldog@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 2:01 PM
To: TAC_South@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TAC_South] Re: OBSERVING AT SENTINEL, ARIZONA



Hi Bill,

Bite your tongue young man; you know there is no place like LBV when
it comes to "conditions" ;-)  We've all frozen our tails off there
during the winter when the temps dip into the teens.  Just part of
the "badge of honor" worn by us LBV'ers.  I'd guess the Sentinel area
doesn't get as cold as LBV, being more flat and open than the bowl of
Little Blair.

You mentioned hikes in the Sentinel area.  I remember doing one just
east of there (off the Spot Road exit) into the Barry Goldwater
Bombing Range to bag the highpoint of the Aguila Mountains.  The
highpoint was about 7 miles into the range.  We thought we picked a
quiet day on the range but were badly mistaken.  A-10 Warthogs and
fighters from Davis Monthan were screaming over our heads right above
the deck.  You could see the helmets of the pilots and admire all of
the heavy armaments hanging off the bottom of the wings.  When we got
to the summit we spent about a half hour watching them drop their
bombs in the stil further east (and a little south) Crater Range.
Now that was an interesting hike; maybe a bit stupid too.

Dave Jurasevich


--- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Dean" <billdean@c...> wrote:
> Hi Paul-
>
>
>
> Sentinel is a lot like LBV as far as conditions go. It's Sonoran
with cinder
> cone. The road in is a little better than out at LBV. When the
Saguaro club
> is putting on the "real" party they had porta potties out there but
> otherwise there are bushes to do your business behind. No water at
the site
> but there's a little gas station/store maybe two miles back up the
road. The
> store closes early, maybe six, so forget stopping for provisions
there if
> you're driving out from San Diego after work on a weekday. Not much
in the
> way of food there anyhow, just snacks. I can't recall if there's
water
> available after they close but there is a soda machine outside.
>
>
>
> Sentinel is primitive camping but the horizons are very good, it's
dark save
> for the Phoenix light-dome to the NE, and offers some nifty side
hikes.
> Don't miss the biggest darned Saguaro I've ever seen.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Paul Sterngold [mailto:psterngold@y...]
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 10:10 AM
> To: TAC_South@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [TAC_South] OBSERVING AT SENTINEL, ARIZONA
>
>
>
> Thanks for posting this, Paul A.
>
> I'm interested but would prefer to carpool with someone or caravan.
Is
> anyone else from SD/OC thinking of attending? I have a van and
would be
> willing to carpool, or otherwise caravan.
>
> What are the camping conditions there? Proximity to water (natural
or
> bought)? Toilets of any sort? Food/groceries? Other amenities?
Thanks.
>
> Cheers,
> Paul Sterngold
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
>
>   _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> *      To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TAC_South/
>
> *      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> TAC_South-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:TAC_South-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
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> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shoot Curt, you just need to get on over to Cabela’s and pick up the gear.
Best $200 you’ll ever spend but I’m still looking for the boots that don’t
require toe warmers to let me keep going. I was plenty warm that night but
the beard was a bit iced up for my tastes. I think it was back in ’99 that
there was a night like that out at LBV and I don’t think I’ve ever been as
cold even up at Breckenridge when the temps were down in mid-twenties on the
wrong side of 0 and the wind was howling. That night was a good one though,
the first time I saw NGC 5139.



Bill



   _____

From: Curt Wittenberg [mailto:curtwitt@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 2:42 PM
To: TAC_South
Subject: Re: [TAC_South] Re: OBSERVING AT SENTINEL, ARIZONA



On 2/3/04 1:00 PM, "Dave Jurasevich" <howldog@...> wrote:

> Bite your tongue young man; you know there is no place like LBV when
> it comes to "conditions" ;-)  We've all frozen our tails off there
> during the winter when the temps dip into the teens.  Just part of
> the "badge of honor" worn by us LBV'ers.

Well, Dave, the badge gets bigger.  December 27/28 it got down to 8.6 F.  I
think that was my limit.  And the bombing range badge I donıt think I even
want to compete for. Iıll settle for LBV Cold over Sentinel Crazy! My badge
is big enough. <g>

Curt





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul your a good man, with all the great response I've gotten it
looks like the main imaging group want to wait it out and see the
results before moving around the bend. Ric and I will be staying put
for OPTAS duties and the back is always open to the hideaways. I do
beleive we should be careful to that remote area it finally looks
like nature is taking it back and I'm sure the ranger and ABSP likes
that. It makes me fill more like a family with people around who care
as much as I do not only for saving the dark skies but the turf we
stand on to view it. Again my thanks and I think everyone will at one
time or another like to share in being what I call the guest host of
LBV.

Regards,

John

--- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "LeFevre, Paul" <lefevre@m...>
wrote:
> John,
> Honestly, no need for a freebie -- I'd be happy to do it, and keep
the dues going towards park fees, etc.  Money well spent :)
>
> It makes a lot of sense for my usual imaging routine, anyway --
once I'm set up, focused, and taking images, everything's automated
so I frequently have lots of sit-around-socialize time.  I could just
as well spend that time minding the entrance, no biggie!
>
> Paul
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: optaspres [mailto:optaspres@y...]
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 9:21 AM
> To: TAC_South@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [TAC_South] Re: LBV Late arrival lighting issue
>
>
> Paul, That is great news I can start a free year membership to
OPTAS
> members for volunteer work at the entrance to LBV. Thanks Paul I'm
> sure Ric will like the change and also for giving me this idea. You
> will be the first to trial this procedure. When you get your
renewal
> form contact me for the freebee. This is available for all members.
>
> WOW this is going to work out great!!
>
> PS: I am changing my Yahoo user group ID to optaspres to make
things
> more related to the club for people reading these messages.
>
> John
>
> --- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "Paul LeFevre" <lefevre@m...>
wrote:
> > John,
> > Assuming my travel schedule lightens up and I'll make it out more
> come spring and summer...
> > I'd be happy to spell Ric once in a while on guard duty.  Taking
> turns would make a lot of sense :)
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jwillardowns [mailto:jwillardowns@y...]
> > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 8:31 AM
> > To: TAC_South@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [TAC_South] LBV Late arrival lighting issue
> >
> >
> > Looks like I have all the signs and areas set aside for the next
> star
> > party and it also looks like our own Ric Ecker is going to setup
> > close to the entrance to LBV and monitor the late incoming
traffic
> if
> > any. Ric said he hates being away from the main imaging group but
> for
> > OPTAS and dark skies he would volunteer. Putting Ric at the
> entrance
> > is like having a Pit Bull in your front yard, we have used Ric's
> > talents for years in crowd control at many activities and RTMC.
> > Thanks are in order for the original OPTAS President Ric, he
might
> > just save the day or the night I should say.
> >
> > John (OPTAS)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TAC_South/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  TAC_South-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> >  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TAC_South/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  TAC_South-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Jurasevich" <howldog@f...>
wrote:
< Hi Bill,
Bite your tongue young man; you know there is no place like LBV when
it comes to "conditions" ;-)  We've all frozen our tails off there
during the winter when the temps dip into the teens.  Just part of
the "badge of honor" worn by us LBV'ers.  I'd guess the Sentinel
area  doesn't get as cold as LBV, being more flat and open than the
bowl of  Little Blair.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Mr. Jurassic,

    This is why, Little Blair Astronomers "Are Known AS" the
Astrovikings (aka). I think this wording was coined by Astroviking,
Scott Roberts, founder of OPTAS.

ric

And proud of it too, Ric!

Mr. Jurassic Park

--- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "ccd92069" <astroviking@c...> wrote:
> --- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Jurasevich" <howldog@f...>
> wrote:
> < Hi Bill,
> Bite your tongue young man; you know there is no place like LBV
when
> it comes to "conditions" ;-)  We've all frozen our tails off there
> during the winter when the temps dip into the teens.  Just part of
> the "badge of honor" worn by us LBV'ers.  I'd guess the Sentinel
> area  doesn't get as cold as LBV, being more flat and open than the
> bowl of  Little Blair.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Mr. Jurassic,
>
>    This is why, Little Blair Astronomers "Are Known AS" the
> Astrovikings (aka). I think this wording was coined by Astroviking,
> Scott Roberts, founder of OPTAS.
>
> ric

Thanks, Bill. The proximity of the gas station/store is attractive.This
doesn't sound like an unpleasant place to observe/image.

Cheers,
Paul S.

--- Bill Dean <billdean@...> wrote:


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

How do the old 12mm and 16mm type II Naglers compare to the newer
versions?
Bob

Like night and day Bob.



The first thing that grabbed me was the overall difference in brightness
between old and new. Coating technology and high-index glass allow for
considerably better transmission from the new designs and it really shows.
Sharpness, on or off-axis, isn't as much an issue. I can't make too much of
correction since I haven't really compared them in anything faster than a
Pronto but if it's clear tomorrow night I can do a little comparo with the
Sky90 but I can't do the 16mm anymore since I don't have a T2 on hand.
Really no comparison there- the new T5 is sooo much smaller and brighter,
free of funkiness, and all that made me ditch the T2 16mm after only a few
weeks. Now the 17mm T4 is another matter!



Bill



   _____

From: nanzfamily [mailto:cathynanz@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 5:43 PM
To: TAC_South@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TAC_South] Nagler question



How do the old 12mm and 16mm type II Naglers compare to the newer
versions?
Bob






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "nanzfamily" <cathynanz@n...> wrote:
> How do the old 12mm and 16mm type II Naglers compare to the newer
> versions?

I'm a little older than Bill and I noticed an marked increase in eye-
relief over the old type II's. Dave J. and I did a compare between
the old 20 T2 to the new 22 T4 and he almost through the II in the
dirt. The contrast and dimension you get with the T4 is like day and
night to the old Type II.

john
>

John is quite right in his assessment.  The difference we saw between
the T2 and T4 Nagler was quite astounding to me (us).  Using my C-14
for the side by side, the T4 offered a "cleaner" view; tighter, more
contrasty and with somewhat fainter stars visible on globular
clusters.  After that evening I put my venerable 20mm Nagler II
grenade up for sale on Astromart and ordered the 22 Nagler 4.  IMHO,
the new glass and coatings technology is the way to go.

Dave

--- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "optaspres" <optaspres@y...> wrote:
> --- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "nanzfamily" <cathynanz@n...>
wrote:
> > How do the old 12mm and 16mm type II Naglers compare to the newer
> > versions?
>
> I'm a little older than Bill and I noticed an marked increase in
eye-
> relief over the old type II's. Dave J. and I did a compare between
> the old 20 T2 to the new 22 T4 and he almost through the II in the
> dirt. The contrast and dimension you get with the T4 is like day
and
> night to the old Type II.
>
> john
> >

Dimension?

Boy Johnny, you must be getting really old! Dimentia perhaps?

Funny you and Dave mention the 20 vs 22 comparison. I see a big
difference, especially correction at the edge of the field in Bob's
slightly faster mirror, but Paul and Cooper didn't seem to think the
difference was worth the hassle and expense. And I haven't ditched my
old 12mm T2 for the T4 since we have the T4 in the "library". But
I'll get around to it one of these days. The whole T4 collection is
pretty awesome but it's a pitty they're nowhere near parfocal. The 22
remains one of my favorite eyepieces.

Bill

--- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "optaspres" <optaspres@y...> wrote:
> --- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "nanzfamily" <cathynanz@n...>
wrote:
> > How do the old 12mm and 16mm type II Naglers compare to the newer
> > versions?
>
> I'm a little older than Bill and I noticed an marked increase in
eye-
> relief over the old type II's. Dave J. and I did a compare between
> the old 20 T2 to the new 22 T4 and he almost through the II in the
> dirt. The contrast and dimension you get with the T4 is like day
and
> night to the old Type II.
>
> john
> >

How do the 12mm and 16mm Nagler type II compare to the type 4 and type 5?
Bob


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is interesting.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/02/06/space.blackeye.reut/index.html


Dorys

Hi Bob,

About the same time as the 20 NaglerII vs 22 NaglerIV I did a
comparison of the 16 NaglerII vs 17 NaglerIV.  To my eyes the results
appeared to be consistent with the above comparison; the 17 NaglerIV
was the clear (no pun intended) winner for the very same reasons.  No
surprise really.  I promptly dumped the 16 in favor of the 17.

Regards,

Dave J

--- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "Nanzfamily" <cathynanz@n...> wrote:
> How do the 12mm and 16mm Nagler type II compare to the type 4 and
type 5?
> Bob
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I second the dimentia part, just kidding ;-)) So Bill, thats how you
spell dimentia, pretty cool. This eyepiece thing, well, I have a
bunch of oculars, but only use the ones that comes with the scope
i.e. 25mm or 26mm plossels, I've sold the scopes without any oculars
to go with the scope. All my 25mm and 26mm eyepieces are all type
ones (I think), They all magnify to the edge of the field and I can
hold three at a time. As far a Nagler goes, he is a very nice man.
All of these eyepieces has coating on all air to glass surfaces or is
that glass to air. The coatings that I see on my eyepieces are dirt,
finger prints and eyelashes. What I'm saying is, I don't use
eyepieces very much. I let the CCD do most of the looking, kinda sad!

astroviking



--- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Dean" <billdean@c...> wrote:
> Dimension?
>
> Boy Johnny, you must be getting really old! Dimentia perhaps?
>
> Funny you and Dave mention the 20 vs 22 comparison. I see a big
> difference, especially correction at the edge of the field in Bob's
> slightly faster mirror, but Paul and Cooper didn't seem to think
the
> difference was worth the hassle and expense. And I haven't ditched
my
> old 12mm T2 for the T4 since we have the T4 in the "library". But
> I'll get around to it one of these days. The whole T4 collection is
> pretty awesome but it's a pitty they're nowhere near parfocal. The
22
> remains one of my favorite eyepieces.
>
> Bill
>
> --- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "optaspres" <optaspres@y...>
wrote:
> > --- In TAC_South@yahoogroups.com, "nanzfamily" <cathynanz@n...>
> wrote:
> > > How do the old 12mm and 16mm type II Naglers compare to the
newer
> > > versions?
> >
> > I'm a little older than Bill and I noticed an marked increase in
> eye-
> > relief over the old type II's. Dave J. and I did a compare
between
> > the old 20 T2 to the new 22 T4 and he almost through the II in
the
> > dirt. The contrast and dimension you get with the T4 is like day
> and
> > night to the old Type II.
> >
> > john
> > >

Hi Gang,

Yes I'm alive - but only just.

My apologies for not being exactly active for the past 18 months or so, I've
been through some very tough issues during this time (but please - no
sympathy!)

In late-2002 I did almost two months of jury duty on a child murder court
case in San Diego (not the case you're thinking of) - grueling!

Just after that I bought a house in Temecula, finally moving in during
January 2003 - lots of hard work!

Then disaster struck due to my own stupidity.

Shortly after moving I backed into an 18" long "hook" sticking out of a
fence (this had been put there by the previous owner) while mowing my new
back lawn.  I ended up with two broken ribs, a seriously messed up left
kidney and a torn peritoneal sack.  These issues resulted in many blood
infections (some of which still remain to some extent) and I'm left slightly
diabetic.  Fortunately my remaining kidney is taking up the slack, but it
took a few months for that to happen (actually my left kidney is beginning
to shows signs of activity now).

Beware mowing the lawn - it can damage your health!  My humour has been
enhanced a bit during this time - I've spent allot of time in bed watching
old Monty Python and Fawlty Towers programmes!

This has all left me basically unable to do any astronomy!  Fortunately I'm
now beginning to regain my strength and am not constantly tired any more, so
I'm really hoping that I'll be able to come out and start observing again
pretty soon.  In the meantime I just occasionally look at the stars with my
unaided eyeballs, boy there is a lot more of them here in Temecula than
there was in Mira Mesa!

If anyone wants "up to the minute" weather reports on Palomar just ask, I
can easily see the peak of Palomar from my backyard, if you know the
Temecula area - I'm in Paloma Del Sol (at approx. 33° 33' 3" N  117° 6' 3"
W).

Just before I injured myself I bought a Takahashi FS128 and a Celestron 11"
(Carbon Fibre tube) - darn it - I haven't had a chance to even take a peek
through them yet!  I'm really hopeful that I'll be using them real soon now.

Looking forward to seeing you all again soon, and I guess there's a few new
people around to meet too!

Paul



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 2/10/04 3:01 PM, "Paul Withers" <pwithers@...> wrote:
>
> Just before I injured myself I bought a Takahashi FS128 and a Celestron 11"
> (Carbon Fibre tube) - darn it - I haven't had a chance to even take a peek
> through them yet!  I'm really hopeful that I'll be using them real soon now.
>
> Looking forward to seeing you all again soon, and I guess there's a few new
> people around to meet too!

Paul,

That is an amazing story, to say the least (no sympathy from us though :^)
I know that you have been really laid up if you had those scopes and didnıt
manage to use them.  Hope that you can get out with them (and us) soon.

I think the only relevant report for Palomar for the next couple months is
COLD!  Although, I canıt say too much better for LBV.  Letıs hope thatıs all
starting to change.  I expect the next two months to be pretty grueling on
my end but by April I expect to be back out there.

Great to hear from you again,

Curt


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 2/10/04 3:01 PM, "Paul Withers" <pwithers@...> wrote:

> If anyone wants "up to the minute" weather reports on Palomar just ask, I
> can easily see the peak of Palomar from my backyard, if you know the
> Temecula area - I'm in Paloma Del Sol (at approx. 33° 33' 3" N  117° 6' 3"
> W).

By the way, in case you donıt know it you are very close to the OCA Anza
site.  You ought to check it out.  Not LBV but convenient.

Curt


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sure is good to hear from you, Paul.  Not so good to hear *why* you've been MIA,
though!
I have nothing funny or clever to say about what happened.  I just hope you have
as full a recovery as possible, and we get to see you soon.
Wish you'd piped up, would have been happy to help out in some way...you know,
like take care of that Tak for you while you were down and out, that sort of
thing!  OK, ok, I did have something funny or clever (you decide) to say... :)

Damn glad to hear from you.  You've been missed.

Paul



	 -----Original Message-----
	 From: Paul Withers [mailto:pwithers@...]
	 Sent: Tue 2/10/2004 3:01 PM
	 To: TAC South
	 Cc:
	 Subject: [TAC_South] Paul Withers Is Alive!






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]