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Galactic Alignment   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #15675 of 18757 |
Galactic Alignment message # 1169

Hi Zi,

In response to your remarks about JMJ's message # 1169:

Jenkins uses astronomer Jean Meuss his calculations for the Galactic
Alignment. In the message he mentions an 2012-era ranging from 1980-
2016 and he explains that this range is caused due to the uncertainty
and accuracy of the actual alignment. The fact of the matter is that
this alignment zone actually represents the time that it takes for
the Sun to completely precess through the Galactic Equator at the
winter solstices during era 2012.

Smelyakov has corrected the calculations of Jean Meuss and has
calculated that it takes 39 years for the Sun to precess through the
Galactic Equator. This is because the Sun's width = 16' 15.42". With
a precession rate of 50 arc seconds a year, it will take the Sun
about 39 years to precess through the Galactic Equator. The
calculation is more complex because the solar system intersects the
Galactic Plane at an angle of 60 degrees. The complete calculation
made by Smelyakov is given here:

http://www.soulsofdistortion.nl/download/Supplement%202.pdf

The alignment zone given for the era of the Great Celestial
Conjunction is 1978-2017 with a midpoint of the conjunction in May 7
1998.

As to the accuracy of the galactic parameters, Smelyakov uses
astronomical data of the year 2000 that gives the coordinates of the
North Pole of the Galactic Plane = NPg. The coordinates of the NPg
gives the normal to the Galactic Plane and describes exactly how the
Galactic Plane (Galactic Equator) is oriented in the equatorial
coordinate system. The accuracy of the calculation of the exact
timing of the Galactic Alignment of course depends on the accuracy of
the astronomical data used and Smelyakov's accounts for the
inaccuracy in his calculations. The estimates of the inaccuracy of
the NPg coordinates are expected to be a tenth of a degree! This
gives an uncertainty of the exact midpoint of the Galactic Alignment
of 7.2 years! Smelyakov calculates the exact midpoint of the Galactic
Alignment as the year:

1998.3 +/- 7.2 years = 1991.1 – 2005.5

In the PDF (supplement to our article) he makes a distinction between
Galactic Alignment (Jenkins) and the Great Celestial Conjunction
(Smelyakov) since the timing parameters are slightly different
(length of the `alignment'). The Galactic Alignment calculation is
corrected for the angle that the solar system makes with the Galactic
Plane, (60 degrees) something Meuss did not take into account. It
gives a slightly longer alignment zone than the zone mentioned by
Jenkins 1978-2017 in stead of 1980-2016.

But Jenkins his remarks about the alignment zone having something to
do with the inaccuracy of the exact location of the Galactic Equator
are incorrect! The alignment zone is determined by the time it takes
the Sun to precess through the Galactic Equator and none other. The
length of the alignment zone can be calculated rather precise (due to
the reliable data on the Sun's diameter and speed of precession) but
the exact midpoint of the Galactic Alignment depends on the accuracy
of the galactic parameters i.e. the coordinates of the North Pole of
the Galactic Plane.

So if you're interested in the nuts and bolts of the Galactic
Alignment you could study the supplement mentioned above.

Good luck
Jan



--- In TIMEWAVEZERO2012@yahoogroups.com, "zyzygyz" <zyzygyz@...>
wrote:
>
> Jan,
>
> I think we are working at cross-purposes here. I shouldn't have used
> the word "'align'" even though I did put it small quotes. I should
> have used a different term, something like 'lie at an angle of ~0.15
> +/- degrees' north of the Galactic Plane of Symmetry, or
the "Galactic
> Plane". Galactic Plane, Galactic Equator, Galactic Plane of
Symmetry -
> the multiplicity of terms confused me.
>
> For example, I refer you back to Message 1169 (09Feb2002) in which
JMJ
> said,
>
> "The Galactic equator is the mid-line of the bright band of the
> Milky Way that we can see stretching overhead on a mid-summer night.
> It can be pictured as an abstract dotted line that runs through the
> middle of the Milky Way. In terms of accuracy this conception
> obviously has its limits because how does an astronomer determine
its
> precise location?" And, "What kind of range of accuracy should we
> realistically expect?"





Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:16 am

asoulofdisto...
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Forward
Message #15675 of 18757 |
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Hi Zy, First of all let me tell you that the subject of Galactic Alignment apparently is very difficult. If it's any reassurance, I didn't quit get it after...
Jan Wicherink
asoulofdisto...
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Oct 28, 2007
7:58 pm

Hi Zi, In response to your remarks about JMJ's message # 1169: Jenkins uses astronomer Jean Meuss his calculations for the Galactic Alignment. In the message...
Jan Wicherink
asoulofdisto...
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Oct 29, 2007
10:16 am

Hi Jan, "This is because the Sun's width = 16' 15.42"." I don't understand how you get this. I thought it would be about tan-1 (864,000 / 93,000,000) = 0.53...
zyzygyz
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Oct 30, 2007
10:25 pm

Jan (and anybody else who's reading this), As a follow-up to this post, I looked at Smelyakov's 'supplement' and I see that he was using 16' 15.42" as half a...
zyzygyz
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Oct 31, 2007
3:34 am

... WRONG!!! What I meant was, divide the square root of 5 by 2 (TWO) and you get 1.118. Lo Siento, Zy....
zyzygyz
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Oct 31, 2007
4:35 am

Hi Zi, I'm sorry but I don't follow you. You write: " But the distance from the Winter Solstice to the Vernal Equinox (WS to VE), based on Smelyakov's diagram...
Jan Wicherink
asoulofdisto...
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Oct 31, 2007
11:28 pm

Jan, ... If you look at the diagram (Fig. S2.1.b), WS - VE is indeed equal to half a solar diameter, or 0.5*sigma S. But read on. ... That's what I was trying...
zyzygyz
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Nov 3, 2007
9:50 pm

Hi Zi, I'm sorry but I really think you got it wrong and quite frankly I don't understand your calculations, they are very simple and straightforward. First of...
Jan Wicherink
asoulofdisto...
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Nov 3, 2007
11:03 pm

Hi Zi, Let's see if I can try to explain how Smelyakov made his calculations. If you take a look at picture S2.1 you notice that the ecliptic and Galactic...
Jan Wicherink
asoulofdisto...
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Nov 3, 2007
11:32 pm

Hi Jan, You're absolutely right, I got it wrong. As I explained, I was visualizing the 30-60-90 triangle as have the proportions 1, 2, and 5^0.5, whereas the...
zyzygyz
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Nov 4, 2007
2:21 am

Hi Zi, Yep you got it now! Your calculations are correct only you used different input data. Smelyakov uses the Sun's diameter at perihelion and aphelion. ...
Jan Wicherink
asoulofdisto...
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Nov 4, 2007
11:18 am

Jan, Thanks for working through this with me - you managed to do it without being condescending, dismissive, or pedantic (and I mean that sincerely). I managed...
zyzygyz
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Nov 5, 2007
9:36 pm

Hi Zy and Jan, I want to say Thank You both for one of the most respectful, interesting, and enlightenting exchanges on a list that I have ever seen. I learned...
mike hoffman
soloflyer1957
Offline Send Email
Nov 6, 2007
12:54 am

Hi Mike, Well that's awfully kind of you! Great to hear you liked the `discussion' and learned along the way something new about Galactic Alignment (Great...
Jan Wicherink
asoulofdisto...
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Nov 6, 2007
11:30 pm

Hi Zi, I thank you for your time and patience and diligence to learn something about Galactic Alignment and/or the Great Celestial Conjunction. You're actually...
Jan Wicherink
asoulofdisto...
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Nov 6, 2007
11:23 pm

Well as a confirmed 'lay person' who can keep up but not necessarily fully understand all of the scientific details contained in this group. I am constantly...
Tres Cozine
trescozine
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Nov 7, 2007
7:58 pm

Hi Tres, The one million dollar question is 'what's wrong with being wrong'? Why the fear? All the best Jan ... necessarily fully understand all ... amazed,...
Jan Wicherink
asoulofdisto...
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Nov 7, 2007
11:19 pm

Hahahaha .....Well as far as I'm concerned not that much but people would get so much farther if they could just adopt the position of "i reserve the right for...
Tres Cozine
trescozine
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Nov 7, 2007
11:56 pm

Hi Jan, Thank you for the kind words. I am surprised that no one else has taken the time or effort to prove this very quantifiable theorem. I've been involved...
zyzygyz
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Nov 8, 2007
6:44 am

Hi Zy, I'm not asking anybody to `take sides', so let's drop the subject it's not interesting anyway, things have taken their course and I'm at peace with it. ...
Jan Wicherink
asoulofdisto...
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Nov 8, 2007
12:41 pm

Sorry for my mistakes, Mentionings of NGP and GNP should be NPG (North Pole Galactic). Regards Jan ... I'm ... I ... the ... orthogonal. ... three ... (vector ...
Jan Wicherink
asoulofdisto...
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Nov 8, 2007
12:44 pm

Jan, That is one of the great problems in discussing celestial mechanics: terminology. The most frequently used term I've found is North Galactic Pole, or NGP...
zyzygyz
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Nov 10, 2007
6:54 am

Hi Zi, Yes I think you are getting the hang of it, my congratulations!!! The NPG notation was being used by Smelyakov and I was not very consistent in applying...
Jan Wicherink
asoulofdisto...
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Nov 10, 2007
8:26 pm

Hi Jan, Thanks again for working through this with me. Back in 2002 I wrote Kurtis Williams again with the 'clincher' question, ie, what is the separation...
zyzygyz
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Nov 12, 2007
10:49 pm

Hi Zi, Without a proper visualization of the movement of the heavens it's impossible to truly understand the Great Celestial Conjunction or Galactic Alignment,...
Jan Wicherink
asoulofdisto...
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Nov 13, 2007
11:44 am

Hi Jan Correct me if I'm wrong, but do your amended calculations (the majority of which I can follow) actually mean that the Great Celestial Conjunction is...
James Henry
jameshenry334
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Nov 13, 2007
11:17 pm

Hi James, I can only speak for myself, but I had to visualize and understand the Clockwork of the Cosmos in 3-D before I could begin to think in 4-D. It only...
vambo_drule
Offline
Nov 14, 2007
6:29 am

Hi Zi, Hi Zi Interesting you mention the spinning girl. Last week a reader of my book mailed me about the spinning starmother kit models of Dan Winter: ...
Jan Wicherink
asoulofdisto...
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Nov 14, 2007
9:06 am

Jan, Too much fun! spin..weeeee! thanks, Barbara ... From: Jan Wicherink <jan.wicherink@...> To: TIMEWAVEZERO2012@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday,...
Barbara Ganschow
jackiebarbara
Offline Send Email
Nov 15, 2007
5:32 am

Hi Zy Thanks for the links. I agree with you regarding the effort that one has to make in order to try to visualise these ideas. I'm only a beginner too but I...
James Henry
jameshenry334
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Nov 18, 2007
2:10 am
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