I was also considering salvaged platters from disk drives,
the 5.25" variety actually.

Except I was going to drive them with a high speed motor
and A) get compressed air for an air brush, or B) use it
as a vacuum pump, depending on airline arrangements.

I'm still in the parts-gathering stage, I have sufficient
platters for a start but I'll want more.

I figured one of the $10 trim routers from eBay would run
things at 30,000 RPM for short term, then the motor would
burn out. If the 5K rated disks didn't explode first.

Obviously, a sturdy enclosure with a good scattershield
is called for. Or maybe instead, use a washing machine
motor and gear things up less dramatically with a series
of pulleys.

Any thoughts on the design?

I would love to hear thoughts and where possible, specs
on extant turbines this size.

Reese

----- Original Message -----

From: William Carr

To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 6:18 PM

Subject: [TeslaTurbine] Re: Electrolysis

On Mar 24, 2005, at 2:23 PM, TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> During the process I talked to many knoledgeable people about what was
> happening to  the water in the combustion chamber.  Most said that the
> water was simply displacing air which in turn was just increasing the
> effective compression ratio of the engine.  Others said that the water
> would turn to ice as soon as it hit the intake and at best it would
> possibly turn into steam from the combustion and the steam helped to
> increase the pressure in the cylinder.  There were more theories but
> they have slipped from my mind with time.  My theory is that  the
> water would "crack" in the combustion chamber turning into oxygen and
> hydrogen then it would burn and add to the effort the gasoline was
> making.



Back in Physics class in college, the Prof did some math on how a car
engine behaves during a rainstorm.

As I recall, he showed that when the air is saturated with moisture,
the excess H20 being fed into the engine actually displaces O2 reducing
the power output, and also sucking up power by absorbing heat from the
engine.

Thus the reason that a car's engine settles down and purrs when it's
foggy out.   Less power, less noise.

Internal combustion Engines are somewhat delicate as we all know.    An
engine operated at altitude needs compressed air to keep working.

As you mention, injecting H20 vapor into an engine can help it run
cooler.

The irony about: "engines that the military used would begin to
detonate at very high power settings"  is that today there's serious
development going on to harness "Pulse Detonation" as a way of getting
more power in aviation engines.

Kind of like riding a bomb.  Actually, exactly like riding a bomb.


As for cracking the water to get H2, recall that you can't get more
power out than you put in.   There's no catalyst that I know of that
could cheat the cost of cracking water 'in situ'.


And Internal Combustion Engines don't generally get to 3,000 degrees.  
I did a Google search but couldn't lock down the actual temps that H20
dis-associates.


I really like the idea you quote about the water vapor increasing the
compression in the engine.   More compression, running cooler, would
certainly change the behavior of the engine enough to notice.



"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary
act."  ~George Orwell

On Mar 25, 2005, at 1:32 PM, TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>  I fly ultralights  with two and four stroke engines.  On days when
> the humidity is over 75% the engine puts out less power and the plane
> is sluggish to control responses, the air is less dense.

Well, I'm not a pilot !   But... is the muggy air actually less dense ?
    There's less O2 per cubic foot because the water vapor is occupying
space and therefore displacing Oxygen.

Air density does vary with altitude and temperature, of course.

As far as interpreting results... well, it's all a matter of
interpretation.

Tesla was one of the greatest inventors of all time.   But he was
taught that energy is transfered via 'the ether' and never let that go.

Which meant that he could invent a lot of great gadgets;  but his
ability to understand the processes and predict outcomes was limited.

For those who don't recognize this term, in the 19th century the
prevailing view of the Universe was that all energy has to be carried
by a particle of some kind.

Light, for example, would be carried by the 'ether', a field of
infinitismal particles that saturate space.

Light energy  from the Sun bumps into the Etheric Particles in Space,
and the light wave is thus a wave travelling through the medium of the
Ether.    Just as in the ocean, a wave is energy carried through the
medium of seawater.

There was a test way back when to prove the existence of the Ether.
It failed.

But it was a well designed test.   The theory was that if the Ether
permeates space, it must act as a fluid.   As the Earth passes through
this fluid, it must create a wake.

So the experimenters set up a system of light beams rigged to measure
this wake.  They got nothin'.

Because there was no wake to detect.

But Tesla, despite his rep for challenging authority, stuck with this
idea of the Ether.

I often wonder what he might have accomplished if he'd just let that
go.   And if he'd had a financial manager.








"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary
act."  ~George Orwell

----- Original Message -----

From: William Carr

To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 2:00 PM

Subject: [TeslaTurbine] Re: Electrolysis

On Mar 25, 2005, at 1:32 PM, TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>  I fly ultralights  with two and four stroke engines.  On days when
> the humidity is over 75% the engine puts out less power and the plane
> is sluggish to control responses, the air is less dense.

Well, I'm not a pilot !   But... is the muggy air actually less dense ?
   There's less O2 per cubic foot because the water vapor is occupying
space and therefore displacing Oxygen.

Air density does vary with altitude and temperature, of course.

As far as interpreting results... well, it's all a matter of
interpretation.

Tesla was one of the greatest inventors of all time.   But he was
taught that energy is transfered via 'the ether' and never let that go.

Which meant that he could invent a lot of great gadgets;  but his
ability to understand the processes and predict outcomes was limited.

For those who don't recognize this term, in the 19th century the
prevailing view of the Universe was that all energy has to be carried
by a particle of some kind.

Light, for example, would be carried by the 'ether', a field of
infinitismal particles that saturate space.

Light energy  from the Sun bumps into the Etheric Particles in Space,
and the light wave is thus a wave travelling through the medium of the
Ether.    Just as in the ocean, a wave is energy carried through the
medium of seawater.

There was a test way back when to prove the existence of the Ether.  
It failed.

But it was a well designed test.   The theory was that if the Ether
permeates space, it must act as a fluid.   As the Earth passes through
this fluid, it must create a wake.

So the experimenters set up a system of light beams rigged to measure
this wake.  They got nothin'.

Because there was no wake to detect.

But Tesla, despite his rep for challenging authority, stuck with this
idea of the Ether.

I often wonder what he might have accomplished if he'd just let that
go.   And if he'd had a financial manager.








"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary
act."  ~George Orwell

-----Original Message-----
From: Mattia Campostrini [mailto:mattia.campostrini@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 6:45 AM
To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TeslaTurbine] Tesla project in Italy

Hi,

 

In Verona (Italy), we are going to start a Tesla Turbine project.

 

The turbine will work with a low temperature condensing fluid in order to acheive the maximum thermodynamic efficiency. 

 

Hi Mattia

I wish you all the best on your ongoing project and hoping that the
following information would help you.

I performed a simulation of the Tesla Turbine using Fluent. You can
find the results, of non-dimensional analisys, loading coefficient,
efficiency  as well as a complete explanation on the Tesla Turbine,
extracted from german and english resources, in the following link:

http://www.ite.tuwien.ac.at/homepage/lehre/diplomarbeit/Rey-Ladino.pdf

Best Regards

Andrés Felipe Rey
Mechanical Engineer

Your computer is at risk; protect your credit card, and personal info. download
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Aerielle Louise
International*Broadcasting*Corp.
http://www.IBCRadio.com/


TONIGHT

James Arthur Jancik's "Feet to the Fire"
http://innersites.com/feet2fire/listen
During the 3rd (final) hour
Sterling Allan is scheduled to discuss the
Lutec 1000 which is said to be
generating 1500% more energy "out" than the
amount of energy "in" needed to energize the circuit.

Sunday, April 3, 2005 - USA:

9:53 PM to 11 PM EASTERN
8:53 PM to 10 PM CENTRAL
7:53 PM to 8 PM PACIFIC
12:53:00 Mon Apr 04 2005 in GMT

If you would like to ask a question
or share a comment DURING THE SHOW:

Details: phone number, web links etc - below.

=====================
                              F2F Show F.A.Q. s
                           =====================
How to listen to the show:
http://innersites.com/feet2fire/listen
More hot audio links;
http://www.IBCRadio.com/

Live studio phone line during the show:
888-863-2722 (Toll-Free in USA and Canada)

Talk on air via Internet:
*Using Skype (www.skype.com) ID: "blknight"
*Using Yahoo ID: "ipstreams"

Live Chat Room:
Register for the new FREE and secure, F2F Chat:
www.innersites.com/chat

Instant Messenger-Type Private Chats:
ICQ ID: 247599096
Yahoo, AOL, IM, iChat IDs: "ipstreams"     (Inter Planetary Streams)

Live Webcam Conference During LIVE broadcast:
Download software at www.ivisit.com , register for a free password, turn
on your webcam, run the software and enter your registration code
received via
your email, and click on the following folders:
Click "ivisit.net", then click "Leisure", then click "radio" then click the
"Feet
to the Fire" folder, then click on the "Feet to the Fire" room (Look for the
line with the little people icon), then click "Join this room"
Live "slide-show" type Video viewable with any Internet browser:
On the Feet to the Fire website , and hit the menu item on left side of
webpage:
"Live Video Slide-Show"
eMail:
BLKnight: blknight@...
Feet 2 Fire: f2f@...
Postal Mailing Address:
Feet to the Fire
PO Box 487
Berwyn, IL. 60402
Website:
www.feet2fire.com
                          Reach for the Skies... Within!
                             James Arthur Jancik
                        The "Black Knight" of Talk Radio
                   www.feet2fire.com <&> www.bksgshow.com
                     Toll-Free Studio Line: 888-863-2722
                    A Member of the LGPRN / IBC Radio Network
                                        ( www.ibcradio.com )

Aerielle Louise
International*Broadcasting*Corp.
http://www.IBCRadio.com/


IS THIS THE ONE ???
Opinions welcome.

Lutec 1000 Inventor Lu Brits: Interview 29 Mar. 2005

http://yowusa.com/Audio/audio.html

CUT TO THE CHASE
With Marshall Masters

Streaming Audio 56K/Broadband
(Requires Free Flash Player)
and Subscriber MP3 Download

29-March-2005:
Lutec 1000 Inventor Lu Brits -
Tesla Energy Overunity Prototype Works for 3 Years;
Affordable Production Models Soon

MP3 Download (0:53:44)

This is the Tesla energy invention we've all be waiting
for! It is called the Lutec 1000.

Inventor Lu Brits first developed the concept for his
Zero Point Energy device 20 years ago, while working on
a maglev train project.

For the last three years, his overunity prototype has
been working like a stuck slot machine.

It is generating 1500% more energy "out" than the
amount of energy "in" needed to energize the circuit.

In this history-making interview, Lu explains the
various components of the Lutec 1000 and how it works
in precise detail.

What amazes us is that Lu and his partner are still
alive, because this device really does work! Let's hope
he can get it to market before the oil interests crush
humanity's first real hope for free, clean, unlimited
energy.
http://yowusa.com/Audio/audio.html

More info soon.
Sterling D. Allan is working on a report.

Listen:
This Week in Free Energy™
live Sunday evenings
9:53-9:58 pm Eastern, U.S.,
during James Arthur Jancik's
"Feet To The Fire"
http://innersites.com/feet2fire/index.html
available worldwide via
http://www.IBCRadio.com/

Free Energy News Daily
http://FreeEnergyNews.com

by PES Network Inc.
http://pureenergysystems.com
http://pesn.com
http://peswiki.com

Aerielle Louise
International*Broadcasting*Corp.
http://www.IBCRadio.com/


TONIGHT

James Arthur Jancik's "Feet to the Fire"
http://innersites.com/feet2fire/listen
During the 3rd (final) hour
Sterling Allan is scheduled to discuss the
Lutec 1000 which is said to be
generating 1500% more energy "out" than the
amount of energy "in" needed to energize the circuit.

Sunday, April 3, 2005 - USA:

9:53 PM to 11 PM EASTERN
8:53 PM to 10 PM CENTRAL
7:53 PM to 8 PM PACIFIC
12:53:00 Mon Apr 04 2005 in GMT

If you would like to ask a question
or share a comment DURING THE SHOW:

Details: phone number, web links etc - below.

=====================
                              F2F Show F.A.Q. s
                           =====================
How to listen to the show:
http://innersites.com/feet2fire/listen
More hot audio links;
http://www.IBCRadio.com/

Live studio phone line during the show:
888-863-2722 (Toll-Free in USA and Canada)

Talk on air via Internet:
*Using Skype (www.skype.com) ID: "blknight"
*Using Yahoo ID: "ipstreams"

Live Chat Room:
Register for the new FREE and secure, F2F Chat:
www.innersites.com/chat

Instant Messenger-Type Private Chats:
ICQ ID: 247599096
Yahoo, AOL, IM, iChat IDs: "ipstreams"     (Inter Planetary Streams)

Live Webcam Conference During LIVE broadcast:
Download software at www.ivisit.com , register for a free password, turn
on your webcam, run the software and enter your registration code
received via
your email, and click on the following folders:
Click "ivisit.net", then click "Leisure", then click "radio" then click the
"Feet
to the Fire" folder, then click on the "Feet to the Fire" room (Look for the
line with the little people icon), then click "Join this room"
Live "slide-show" type Video viewable with any Internet browser:
On the Feet to the Fire website , and hit the menu item on left side of
webpage:
"Live Video Slide-Show"
eMail:
BLKnight: blknight@...
Feet 2 Fire: f2f@...
Postal Mailing Address:
Feet to the Fire
PO Box 487
Berwyn, IL. 60402
Website:
www.feet2fire.com
                          Reach for the Skies... Within!
                             James Arthur Jancik
                        The "Black Knight" of Talk Radio
                   www.feet2fire.com <&> www.bksgshow.com
                     Toll-Free Studio Line: 888-863-2722
                    A Member of the LGPRN / IBC Radio Network
                                        ( www.ibcradio.com )

Aerielle Louise
International*Broadcasting*Corp.
http://www.IBCRadio.com/


IS THIS THE ONE ???
Opinions welcome.

Lutec 1000 Inventor Lu Brits: Interview 29 Mar. 2005

http://yowusa.com/Audio/audio.html

CUT TO THE CHASE
With Marshall Masters

Streaming Audio 56K/Broadband
(Requires Free Flash Player)
and Subscriber MP3 Download

29-March-2005:
Lutec 1000 Inventor Lu Brits -
Tesla Energy Overunity Prototype Works for 3 Years;
Affordable Production Models Soon

MP3 Download (0:53:44)

This is the Tesla energy invention we've all be waiting
for! It is called the Lutec 1000.

Inventor Lu Brits first developed the concept for his
Zero Point Energy device 20 years ago, while working on
a maglev train project.

For the last three years, his overunity prototype has
been working like a stuck slot machine.

It is generating 1500% more energy "out" than the
amount of energy "in" needed to energize the circuit.

In this history-making interview, Lu explains the
various components of the Lutec 1000 and how it works
in precise detail.

What amazes us is that Lu and his partner are still
alive, because this device really does work! Let's hope
he can get it to market before the oil interests crush
humanity's first real hope for free, clean, unlimited
energy.
http://yowusa.com/Audio/audio.html

More info soon.
Sterling D. Allan is working on a report.

Listen:
This Week in Free Energy™
live Sunday evenings
9:53-9:58 pm Eastern, U.S.,
during James Arthur Jancik's
"Feet To The Fire"
http://innersites.com/feet2fire/index.html
available worldwide via
http://www.IBCRadio.com/

Free Energy News Daily
http://FreeEnergyNews.com

by PES Network Inc.
http://pureenergysystems.com
http://pesn.com
http://peswiki.com

Hi,

I have just been accepted to Medical School and I have to sell my
Tesla Turbine. I will have no time or money to work on the project.
I have pictures already posted (side view, top view, etc). The unit
is made from stainless and has designed, built and assembled in a
machine shop all parts are CNC'd machined. I do not have the
blueprints anymore but the unit does work. I have done limited
testing with air and low-pressure steam. I also have a parabolic
solar panel available it is approximately 3 feet by 10 feet and
generates so impressive steam. Additionally there is a 50-gallon
drum flash tube boiler and 500000 BTU propane torch that goes with
the package. All the items you need to start testing and playing
with a Tesla Turbine.  The unit is in Phoenix, Arizona so
arrangements would nave to be made for pick up. The machining and
materials cost well over 3500 dollars so serious inquiries only. I
will be moving to Northern CA for the next four years so it has to
go.

Thanks.

Hi,

I have just been accepted to Medical School and I have to sell my
Tesla Turbine. I will have no time or money to work on the project.
I have pictures already posted (side view, top view, etc). The unit
is made from stainless and has designed, built and assembled in a
machine shop all parts are CNC'd machined. I do not have the
blueprints anymore but the unit does work. I have done limited
testing with air and low-pressure steam. I also have a parabolic
solar panel available it is approximately 3 feet by 10 feet and
generates so impressive steam. Additionally there is a 50-gallon
drum flash tube boiler and 500000 BTU propane torch that goes with
the package. All the items you need to start testing and playing
with a Tesla Turbine.  The unit is in Phoenix, Arizona so
arrangements would nave to be made for pick up. The machining and
materials cost well over 3500 dollars so serious inquiries only. I
will be moving to Northern CA for the next four years so it has to
go.

Thanks.

Jim,

 

Thanks for this information. The links were very informative.

 

I have a follow on question…

 

Besides the hassle of designing something new, can anyone see a down side to integrating a motor into each wheel hub instead of having a separate drive motor? I envision that the DC motor housing itself would be the mounting point for each tire. There would be no need for powered input shaft, as all drive would come from inside the hub. All drive train would be removed. Power train would consist of a DC power plant that would vary its output to meet the current vehicle demands, the wires that went to each wheel, and the wheels themselves. I’m not sure if this is clear, perhaps I should make a drawing…

 

Any thoughts?

 

---

From: Jim Dooley [mailto:LSUman@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 8:23 AM
To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [TeslaTurbine] Re: How Can We Help

 

James,

 

Here is a starting point.  There are several other suppliers of this type of equipment.  You may also look throughthe website of the National Electric Drag Racing Association for links to equipment suppliers. 

 

http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/dcmotors.shtml

 

 

http://www.nedra.com/

 

 

Jim Dooley

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Sorry if i sound new to this but i lost a bunch of
emails. Has anyone thought about making a street legal
version of this dragster?(excuse my terminology) It
seems that if done correctly it could make for a very
efficeint street veichle and would not be to hard to
to pull off, at least in the catagory of experimental
cars. I will also echo the aproval of "no mechanical
transfer of energy from the power plant to the wheel".
If you look at plans for the SEGWAY human transporter
it has a inhub electrical motor design and it seem to
work quite well. Also the potential for a noslip AWD
is incredible because traction controll is so much
easier if you can generate the exact amount of force
needed to maintain control (this could also lead to
less tire wear in cornering expecially if combined
with the Bose suspension system). So Please tell me if
i am wrong but this could be a completly new wave of
automotive technology. Thats all of my rant for now.
And if yuo need a machineist to look plans over or
prototype a part let me know.

Ed Ivory
--- Jim Dooley <LSUman@...> wrote:

> It is a simple matter for the drive controller to
> "synchronize" the speeds
> of the various motors.  That is precisely what
> traction control does on
> mechanically driven cars.  That is also part of what
> happens in the ABS
> system on modern brakes.  Rotational speed sensors
> on each wheel transmit
> the wheel PRM to the controller, and the controller
> supplies more or less
> force as needed to keep rotational speeds the same
> on each wheel.  Doing the
> same thing with power proportioning electronically
> is much easier than
> proportioning hydraulic pressure to brakes or
> mechanical power to drive
> wheels.
>
>
>
> Also, thanks to James Welsh for agreeing with my
> proposal on driving the car
> totally electrically, with no mechanical connection
> to the drive wheels from
> the powerplant.  That would save an untold amount of
> weight and mechanical
> complexity.  I have always felt that the simpler it
> system is, the easier it
> is to maintain.  That is why I proposed a gas
> turbine as the power plant and
> not a reciprocating engine of any kind.  A gas
> turbine is much smaller,
> lighter in weight, more powerful and has but a
> single moving part.
>
>
>
> Jim Dooley
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Welsh James E Contr 21SOPS/MCOM
> [mailto:james.welsh@...]
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:12 AM
> To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [TeslaTurbine] Re: How Can We Help
>
>
>
> Thanks Andy, I hadn't thought much about that, but I
> suppose you are
> probably right. I'll take a look at that.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> James
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Drew Marinich [mailto:twosimple4u77@...]
>
> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 9:09 AM
> To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [TeslaTurbine] Re: How Can We Help
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>     The only problem I see with that idea is getting
> all the motors synced
> together. I would think even a slight difference in
> wheel speed would cause
> the car to pull, and tires to wear unevenly.
>
>    That being said it's certainly possible to
> accomplish, but I have no idea
> how without some sort of computer control.  Properly
> controlled I think
> individual motors would be the ultimate in traction
> control. Well those are
> my thoughts.
>
>
>
>   Cheers
>
>
>
> Andy
>
> Welsh James E Contr 21SOPS/MCOM
> <james.welsh@...> wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
>
>
> Thanks for this information. The links were very
> informative.
>
>
>
> I have a follow on question.
>
>
>
> Besides the hassle of designing something new, can
> anyone see a down side to
> integrating a motor into each wheel hub instead of
> having a separate drive
> motor? I envision that the DC motor housing itself
> would be the mounting
> point for each tire. There would be no need for
> powered input shaft, as all
> drive would come from inside the hub. All drive
> train would be removed.
> Power train would consist of a DC power plant that
> would vary its output to
> meet the current vehicle demands, the wires that
> went to each wheel, and the
> wheels themselves. I'm not sure if this is clear,
> perhaps I should make a
> drawing.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>
> From: Jim Dooley [mailto:LSUman@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 8:23 AM
> To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [TeslaTurbine] Re: How Can We Help
>
>
>
> James,
>
>
>
> Here is a starting point.  There are several other
> suppliers of this type of
> equipment.  You may also look throughthe website of
> the National Electric
> Drag Racing Association for links to equipment
> suppliers.
>
>
>
> http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/dcmotors.shtml
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.nedra.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim Dooley
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>   _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TeslaTurbine/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> TeslaTurbine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
<mailto:TeslaTurbine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of
> Service.
=== message truncated ===


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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Ed,

Good to hear from you. I actually wasn't planning a dragster, I'm more
looking to build a street legal vehicle for myself. I have hydroelectric
capability on my land, so that means pretty near free hydrogen for as
long as it rains. This business in California of paying $2.79 a gallon
for gasoline is for the birds and I don't see it getting any cheaper!

Thanks for sounding off about the machining. Looks like I should
definitely start doing some more concrete figures and maybe we can start
working on some of this stuff.

Is anybody on this list a thermal dynamics guru? I don't know enough
about metallurgy to select the proper material for my turbine disks. I
can look up some information about the firing temp for hydrogen
catalyzed with Oxygen, but I don't know enough about thermal buildup and
plastic states of metals. I don't want to go through the trouble of
designing and building just to have my disks deteriorate faster than you
can say "no slip boundary layer."

So I guess the starting point would be to take a swag at the overall
vehicle weight, determine what sort of acceleration and cruising
characteristics we would want it to have, and use this to figure the
torque and horsepower requirements of DC motors. This would get us to
the required output for the power plant. Throw in a dash of fudge factor
for efficiency losses and I think we are there.

Am I missing anything?

Oh, and I was thinking, does anybody know any down sides to the old
Unibody designs? I remember a friend telling me how they could drive on
mud easily because the car was so light. If this is the case, we could
also reduce weight here by doing away with the chassis. Also, since each
wheel will be driving part of the car, I don't think that there will be
as much lateral torque applied across the vehicle...

On the other hand, we couldn't skimp too much because the passenger
compartment needs to be crash safe.

Who knows about crumple zones and using twisted metal to soften the
imparted forces of a vehicular accident?

Any other thoughts?

In thinking about this design, I wanted to make the vehicle green (use
alternative fuels) but make it have outstanding performance. Like a
little muscle car. I'm thinking that I want to feel like I'm sitting in
a fighter plane. I think this could be pretty neat, especially if the
Tesla Turbines put out the high pitch whine I'm expecting. The more I
have thought about it, the more my hydro-electric ;) car looks like a
formula 1 race car... hmmm. Anyway... I'm just trying to keep it FUN!

Here's a hat tip to Jim Dooley... In talking about all of this, I have
adopted ideas that sounded good into my own thinking, so, if I take
ownership of an idea you have had, I'm not trying to take credit, I'm
trying to flatter you by agreeing that it's an awesome idea.

I'm seriously not interested in paying these ridiculous gas prices and,
if we have the technology to make alternative fuels work, I say we
should. A large stumbling block is that there is so much knowledge that
goes into this sort of thing in order to make it work, that it's really
difficult for one person to do it and be altogether successful,
especially if he has anything else going on in his life. So... if we can
work together and make this happen, that's awesome. I'm down to put some
of my time toward this and even some resources, but I'm definitely going
to need help.

I offer my apologies to any women who may be on this list. My use of the
work He and him are completely non gender specific.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Ivory [mailto:eji2004@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:12 AM
To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [TeslaTurbine] Re: How Can We Help


Sorry if i sound new to this but i lost a bunch of
emails. Has anyone thought about making a street legal
version of this dragster?(excuse my terminology) It
seems that if done correctly it could make for a very
efficeint street veichle and would not be to hard to
to pull off, at least in the catagory of experimental
cars. I will also echo the aproval of "no mechanical
transfer of energy from the power plant to the wheel".
If you look at plans for the SEGWAY human transporter
it has a inhub electrical motor design and it seem to
work quite well. Also the potential for a noslip AWD
is incredible because traction controll is so much
easier if you can generate the exact amount of force
needed to maintain control (this could also lead to
less tire wear in cornering expecially if combined
with the Bose suspension system). So Please tell me if
i am wrong but this could be a completly new wave of
automotive technology. Thats all of my rant for now.
And if yuo need a machineist to look plans over or
prototype a part let me know.

Ed Ivory
--- Jim Dooley <LSUman@...> wrote:

> It is a simple matter for the drive controller to
> "synchronize" the speeds
> of the various motors.  That is precisely what
> traction control does on
> mechanically driven cars.  That is also part of what
> happens in the ABS
> system on modern brakes.  Rotational speed sensors
> on each wheel transmit
> the wheel PRM to the controller, and the controller
> supplies more or less
> force as needed to keep rotational speeds the same
> on each wheel.  Doing the
> same thing with power proportioning electronically
> is much easier than
> proportioning hydraulic pressure to brakes or
> mechanical power to drive
> wheels.
>
>
>
> Also, thanks to James Welsh for agreeing with my
> proposal on driving the car
> totally electrically, with no mechanical connection
> to the drive wheels from
> the powerplant.  That would save an untold amount of
> weight and mechanical
> complexity.  I have always felt that the simpler it
> system is, the easier it
> is to maintain.  That is why I proposed a gas
> turbine as the power plant and
> not a reciprocating engine of any kind.  A gas
> turbine is much smaller,
> lighter in weight, more powerful and has but a
> single moving part.
>
>
>
> Jim Dooley
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Welsh James E Contr 21SOPS/MCOM
> [mailto:james.welsh@...]
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:12 AM
> To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [TeslaTurbine] Re: How Can We Help
>
>
>
> Thanks Andy, I hadn't thought much about that, but I
> suppose you are
> probably right. I'll take a look at that.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> James
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Drew Marinich [mailto:twosimple4u77@...]
>
> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 9:09 AM
> To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [TeslaTurbine] Re: How Can We Help
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>     The only problem I see with that idea is getting
> all the motors synced
> together. I would think even a slight difference in
> wheel speed would cause
> the car to pull, and tires to wear unevenly.
>
>    That being said it's certainly possible to
> accomplish, but I have no idea
> how without some sort of computer control.  Properly
> controlled I think
> individual motors would be the ultimate in traction
> control. Well those are
> my thoughts.
>
>
>
>   Cheers
>
>
>
> Andy
>
> Welsh James E Contr 21SOPS/MCOM
> <james.welsh@...> wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
>
>
> Thanks for this information. The links were very
> informative.
>
>
>
> I have a follow on question.
>
>
>
> Besides the hassle of designing something new, can
> anyone see a down side to
> integrating a motor into each wheel hub instead of
> having a separate drive
> motor? I envision that the DC motor housing itself
> would be the mounting
> point for each tire. There would be no need for
> powered input shaft, as all
> drive would come from inside the hub. All drive
> train would be removed.
> Power train would consist of a DC power plant that
> would vary its output to
> meet the current vehicle demands, the wires that
> went to each wheel, and the
> wheels themselves. I'm not sure if this is clear,
> perhaps I should make a
> drawing.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>
> From: Jim Dooley [mailto:LSUman@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 8:23 AM
> To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [TeslaTurbine] Re: How Can We Help
>
>
>
> James,
>
>
>
> Here is a starting point.  There are several other
> suppliers of this type of
> equipment.  You may also look throughthe website of
> the National Electric
> Drag Racing Association for links to equipment
> suppliers.
>
>
>
> http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/dcmotors.shtml
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.nedra.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim Dooley
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>   _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TeslaTurbine/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> TeslaTurbine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
<mailto:TeslaTurbine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of
> Service.
=== message truncated ===


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Yahoo! Groups Links

Heres a thought, If you are thinking about using a
unibody design you could always retrofit another car
to work for you thus simplifing the safty and comfort
issues. I am a Subaru fanatic so excuse my excesive
subaru/AWD comments. You could use a 90's plus subaru
to build on I have torn one almost completly apart and
put another one together. Great unibody, down side
engine and all it weighs in at 3500lbs, mostly the
fact that unibodies are great in mud is true, but not
for the weight, mostly because they have almost
nothing to catch on the bottom with. Also Sizes are
easy to match, almost everything is metric.(I am in
the US) But Toyota Corolla's are much lighter no
complicated AWD and a really light unibody, I dont
have a specific number though. Also if you can get me
your running and peak tematures I can tell you what
you need to make the discs/housing out of. one of the
Guys in the machine shop is a metalurgy guru.(Just a
note the machine shop is not a garage shop we have 2
CNC lathes and 3 CNC mills. The Point is the quality
of work will be the best you can get. Anyway thats my
rant for the evening.
Later
Ed
--- Welsh James E Contr 21SOPS/MCOM
<james.welsh@...> wrote:

> Ed,
>
> Good to hear from you. I actually wasn't planning a
> dragster, I'm more
> looking to build a street legal vehicle for myself.
> I have hydroelectric
> capability on my land, so that means pretty near
> free hydrogen for as
> long as it rains. This business in California of
> paying $2.79 a gallon
> for gasoline is for the birds and I don't see it
> getting any cheaper!
>
> Thanks for sounding off about the machining. Looks
> like I should
> definitely start doing some more concrete figures
> and maybe we can start
> working on some of this stuff.
>
> Is anybody on this list a thermal dynamics guru? I
> don't know enough
> about metallurgy to select the proper material for
> my turbine disks. I
> can look up some information about the firing temp
> for hydrogen
> catalyzed with Oxygen, but I don't know enough about
> thermal buildup and
> plastic states of metals. I don't want to go through
> the trouble of
> designing and building just to have my disks
> deteriorate faster than you
> can say "no slip boundary layer."
>
> So I guess the starting point would be to take a
> swag at the overall
> vehicle weight, determine what sort of acceleration
> and cruising
> characteristics we would want it to have, and use
> this to figure the
> torque and horsepower requirements of DC motors.
> This would get us to
> the required output for the power plant. Throw in a
> dash of fudge factor
> for efficiency losses and I think we are there.
>
> Am I missing anything?
>
> Oh, and I was thinking, does anybody know any down
> sides to the old
> Unibody designs? I remember a friend telling me how
> they could drive on
> mud easily because the car was so light. If this is
> the case, we could
> also reduce weight here by doing away with the
> chassis. Also, since each
> wheel will be driving part of the car, I don't think
> that there will be
> as much lateral torque applied across the vehicle...
>
>
> On the other hand, we couldn't skimp too much
> because the passenger
> compartment needs to be crash safe.
>
> Who knows about crumple zones and using twisted
> metal to soften the
> imparted forces of a vehicular accident?
>
> Any other thoughts?
>
> In thinking about this design, I wanted to make the
> vehicle green (use
> alternative fuels) but make it have outstanding
> performance. Like a
> little muscle car. I'm thinking that I want to feel
> like I'm sitting in
> a fighter plane. I think this could be pretty neat,
> especially if the
> Tesla Turbines put out the high pitch whine I'm
> expecting. The more I
> have thought about it, the more my hydro-electric ;)
> car looks like a
> formula 1 race car... hmmm. Anyway... I'm just
> trying to keep it FUN!
>
> Here's a hat tip to Jim Dooley... In talking about
> all of this, I have
> adopted ideas that sounded good into my own
> thinking, so, if I take
> ownership of an idea you have had, I'm not trying to
> take credit, I'm
> trying to flatter you by agreeing that it's an
> awesome idea.
>
> I'm seriously not interested in paying these
> ridiculous gas prices and,
> if we have the technology to make alternative fuels
> work, I say we
> should. A large stumbling block is that there is so
> much knowledge that
> goes into this sort of thing in order to make it
> work, that it's really
> difficult for one person to do it and be altogether
> successful,
> especially if he has anything else going on in his
> life. So... if we can
> work together and make this happen, that's awesome.
> I'm down to put some
> of my time toward this and even some resources, but
> I'm definitely going
> to need help.
>
> I offer my apologies to any women who may be on this
> list. My use of the
> work He and him are completely non gender specific.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Ivory [mailto:eji2004@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:12 AM
> To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [TeslaTurbine] Re: How Can We Help
>
>
> Sorry if i sound new to this but i lost a bunch of
> emails. Has anyone thought about making a street
> legal
> version of this dragster?(excuse my terminology) It
> seems that if done correctly it could make for a
> very
> efficeint street veichle and would not be to hard to
> to pull off, at least in the catagory of
> experimental
> cars. I will also echo the aproval of "no mechanical
> transfer of energy from the power plant to the
> wheel".
> If you look at plans for the SEGWAY human
> transporter
> it has a inhub electrical motor design and it seem
> to
> work quite well. Also the potential for a noslip AWD
> is incredible because traction controll is so much
> easier if you can generate the exact amount of force
> needed to maintain control (this could also lead to
> less tire wear in cornering expecially if combined
> with the Bose suspension system). So Please tell me
> if
> i am wrong but this could be a completly new wave of
> automotive technology. Thats all of my rant for now.
> And if yuo need a machineist to look plans over or
> prototype a part let me know.
>
> Ed Ivory
> --- Jim Dooley <LSUman@...> wrote:
>
> > It is a simple matter for the drive controller to
> > "synchronize" the speeds
> > of the various motors.  That is precisely what
> > traction control does on
> > mechanically driven cars.  That is also part of
> what
> > happens in the ABS
> > system on modern brakes.  Rotational speed sensors
> > on each wheel transmit
> > the wheel PRM to the controller, and the
> controller
> > supplies more or less
> > force as needed to keep rotational speeds the same
> > on each wheel.  Doing the
> > same thing with power proportioning electronically
> > is much easier than
> > proportioning hydraulic pressure to brakes or
> > mechanical power to drive
> > wheels.
> >
> >
> >
> > Also, thanks to James Welsh for agreeing with my
> > proposal on driving the car
> > totally electrically, with no mechanical
> connection
> > to the drive wheels from
> > the powerplant.  That would save an untold amount
> of
> > weight and mechanical
> > complexity.  I have always felt that the simpler
> it
> > system is, the easier it
> > is to maintain.  That is why I proposed a gas
> > turbine as the power plant and
> > not a reciprocating engine of any kind.  A gas
> > turbine is much smaller,
> > lighter in weight, more powerful and has but a
> > single moving part.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Dooley
> >
> >
> >
> >   _____
>
=== message truncated ===




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hello,
A serious relation between earthquakes and lower atmosphere exist..
http://www.meteoquake.org is a new website which explain:
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when was found?
the evolution...

If you are interested you can follow the discussions in our yahoo group
Regards

R.Karel
www.meteoquake.org

Have we got any thoughts?  Some of us are blessed
[cursed] with as many thoughts as there are seconds in
our lives… [smiles].

The question is,  “Are any of our thoughts of any
value to what you are trying to do?”  It would seem
you do think some of the ideas on this site are of
value.  [smiles]  Well, since you are weighing that
one out for yourself, here are my contributions:

--- NOTE: for lack of tabs on most blogs, I am using
the following outline format, sorry if it is a bit
hard to get used to… :{

1 Design the blades out of ceramics.
1.1 Lightweight, ultra-high temp, easy to shape, like
the infamous Shuttle tiles.
2 Design the motor to run at “One RPM” and load.
(higher RPM=smaller diameter and higher torque [or
lower breaking horsepower])
2.1 “One RPM” will allow you to maximize efficiency
while higher RPMs will make the whine or bearing drag
an important factor [but no air bearings, see 4.4.1
below].
2.2 “One RPM” is practical because the motor will only
drive an electric generator.
3 If you think you will use electrolysis, look before
you leap, but if you do go that route, you can use
both the O2 and the H2.  Electrolysis is a teaching
demonstration that is not generally used in industry
for H2 production for some good reasons.
3.1 One alternative method is to use the electricity
to make steam [using preheated water from a
solar-water-heater?].  Pass the steam over catalysts,
which will break steam into O2 and H2.  To research
more details for that method, look for documentation
of the common industrial production methods for H2.
3.2 Another alternative is to just charge batteries
with your hydropower electricity, forget the H2 part…
Oops, that’s right, charging car batteries creates H2
and I guess you really did have your heart set on
hearing the Tesla Turbine whine a bit.
3.3 To get really far out, I think Dr. Tesla would
have designed a high frequency, high voltage generator
for your micro-hydro-power-plant and beamed the power
to the car.  I have no idea how to design a microwave
or X-Ray frequency hydro-generator.  I would
experiment with microwave ovens, but that could be
quite hazardous for any but the real Dr. Tesla types,
I am not that qualified.  Again, this idea gets away
from the turbine idea unless the water is used to
drive a high-speed turbine that in turn, drives a
high-frequency and high-voltage generator.
4 If you like the idea of using an existing car
chassis, and throw away the wheels, drive shafts,
rear-end and transmission, ditch the suspension as
well, see the Hummer thought below.  This will leave
the steering and brakes hanging!
4.1 You might also get rid of the back seat, use that
area for heavy batteries in order to keep them as
close to the center of car as is practical.  You
should also put special attention to lowering the
center of gravity with the battery placement.  The
reason you probably want
main-motor-to-generator-to-batteries-to-controller-to-wheel-motor
configuration is that you can then have very high
torques for when the light first turns green, while
critically tuning the main motor for the average power
needs and then the batteries have to be just large
enough amps to do the power averaging.
4.1.1  100hp=75kw for our calculations  [100hp =
74570.10335416 volt-amperes].
4.1.1.1 [1/2 motor rating] – [average target hp] =
[battery size in hp]
4.1.1.2 but… you also want the motor rating and the
battery rating [in hp] to be to be equal so that the
other half of the motor rating [in hp] can recharge
the batteries.
4.1.1.3 A plot of “normal” hp usage over time would
probably not be a bell-shaped curve.  The curve may
have substantial kurtosis [plot table one] and table
one still has an average hp of about 100hp.  For that
reason you may have to consider another battery
specification, technically known as internal
resistance, but generally spec’ed as cranking amps for
car batteries.  The battery may well have 10k
amp-hours [X coulombs] but you generally cannot get
all them electrons out of the battery in one second!
Therefore, this factor will effectively limit your
peak hp [or fun factor].  The limit of electrons per
second [amps] that a battery will supply at a working
voltage recalculates to an effective internal
resistance - according to Ohm’s Law:
E [voltage] / I [amps] = R [ohms] or, for example:
   12volts / 100amps = 0.12ohms
       [or sometimes spec’ed in terms of conductance:
1/R=G, 8 1/3 Mhos]
4.1.1.4  Yet another, but similar sounding, concern is
that you cannot put all the electrons back into a
battery in one second.  The example battery may not be
able to be charged at a rate of 100 amps, even with an
additional 2 volts [14v total] of charging pressure
[too much pressure, in volts, can cause a battery to
melt, rupture or explode].  A typical battery charger
will control the charge rate via a current [amp]
limiting feature.  This will also factor into your
calculations of how many batteries and what kind of
batteries you think you need.
4.2 You may need to check that the efficiency loss due
to the weight of the batteries will be less than the
increased efficiency effect of the tuned motor design.
  My intuition would say that is true by a considerable
margin, but in reality, many design factors affect
that answer!  The smaller or no battery compromised
design would have to compromise main-motor efficiency
for increased maximum power and the ability to operate
reliably over some range of RPMs and loads.
4.3 Perhaps you can use small stock tires, but thin
hard rubber tires would be more efficient.  Long-haul
trucks use “highway” tires, hard rubber treads, for
both increased tire mileage and better fuel economy
with the design sacrifice of longer stopping
distances.  Make sure that the tires you choose, will
stop you safely as well as provide some desired
fun-factors [acceleration, road conditions, usage,
etc.]: slicks, mud treads, aircraft tires, monster
tires, mini-spare-tires, etc.
4.4 Design a new wheel with 25 to 100 hp electric
motors in the center.  You did say fun, right?  The
power actually transferred to the wheels will be
outstanding compared to a “normal” car.  Vettes and
Hummers beware!  They are able to transmit some
percentage of the engine power to the wheels.  Your
four 25hp motors may be able to propel you faster than
a Vette and get more air time than Bigfoot, let alone
the pricey Hummer [albeit your buggy will not be cheap
in its one-off version].
4.4.1 Design the bearings to allow the car to be
suspended from the four motors [not only the weight of
the car, but the weight times the maximum forces,
i.e., stopping, starting and centrifugal].  This will
translate to very heavy-duty bearings, notice that all
“normal” car wheel bearings look like the same design
because that design is an inherently very heavy-duty
design.
4.4.2 Standard practice would use permanent-magnet DC
motors, but I would design a Tesla style [brushless]
high-frequency “Polyphase” motor [much like an
oversized stepper motor] then bring out all the leads
to the motor-control, which will be able to control
the motor [effectively re-wiring the motor] for high
torque and smoothly transition it [with several
in-between modes] into high-speed [low-torque] mode.
Lots of wires going to many different motor windings
will have the added advantage of making the finial
wire gauge and the motor control elements, much more
practical, i.e., affordable, as well as increasing the
reliability via semi-redundant elements [one wire
breaks and you still go, if less efficiently].  The
idea of using electric motor control instead of a
mechanical transmission is from the well-proven
diesel-electric locomotive designs [this means
enormous and efficient torque by design].
4.4.3 Do not forget to include a braking system in the
wheel design, regenerative breaking will help, but the
overall design should be able to stop about as fast as
it starts.  It seems wrong to use electric power for
stopping, but that could be done by designing the
motor-control with some special heavy-duty braking
algorithm [thus you would not need the hydraulic
braking system from the stock car].  I think I would
stick with the old system just for the time proven
safety factor.
4.4.3.1 Hah yes, you will also want a parking brake,
with all of the electricity off, you would not want
your creation to seek a lower level all by itself.
4.4.4  As you design the suspension system which
connects the motor/wheels to the chassis, do not
forget to allow for re-connecting the steering.
4.4.4.1 Hummer idea: since the mechanical drivelines
are gone, the suspension design can be rather radical.
  It will be much easier to design far greater
up-and-down-travel with variable shock absorption.  I
would use an air-assisted shock system controlled by
added circuits in the main motor control box.  The
motor-control will have some type of anti-slip control
for each wheel; to add independent suspension control
will enhance that performance.  I could see this thing
able to transverse a course of boulders while
remaining level owing to a radical suspension design
and controller with level sensing.  As I envision it,
this design could work better than a Hummer for rugged
terrain demonstrations, i.e. during and after
Armageddon, DARPA grant money anyone?
5 If you simply want a novelty gadget, you might get
some limited utility out of designing the Tesla
turbines into the wheels [instead of Tesla’s Polyphase
electric motors].

Want more… ?

Table one:
A fictitious typical hp usage chart with substantial
kurtosis [and double nodes]
power [hp] time [percentage]
========      =============
20 7.0%
40 10.0%
60 15.0%
80 20.0%
100 20.0%
120 10.0%
140 6.0%
160 3.0%
180 2.0%
200 1.0%
220 0.8%
240 0.6%
260 0.5%
280 0.4%
300 0.3%
320 0.2%
340 0.2%
360 0.5%
380 0.7%
400 1.8%




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This is very serious..
And - it's not only in NY.
Supposedly - at least 37 other states
are contaminated.
Are you living on a time bomb ???


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LOU RICCIUTI
(pronounced:- Rich - U - Tee)

will present his findings and discuss:

"ATOMIC NIAGARA, NEW YORK'S NUCLEAR NIGHTMARE"

The dire situation of RADIATION AND CHEMICAL POLUTION

in THE NIAGARA FALLS, NY, USA AREA including:
Niagara County, Western NY, Lewiston, New York.

WEBSITE: http://www.atomicniagara.wny.org

*Independent Researcher
*Founder (IERO) Institute for Environmental Research and
Oversight,
*A Director of the International Institute
of Concern for Public Health (www.iicph.org/)
*Chair of several local environmental committees
*Researcher and writer of a series of alarming articles
in Buffalo, New York's news weekly, Artvoice magazine.
*Former PR & Marketing Exec for the Niagara Falls, NY area
for over two decades.

Ricciuti feels that health studies conducted since the
first dropping of atomic bombs, have not been
completely open, honest or accurate. He feels that
there is a strong likelihood that we've been
"hoodwinked" and that the time has come to disclose
this heinous chapter in what has become
ATOMIC NIAGARA, NEW YORK'S NUCLEAR NIGHTMARE since
*Niagara was the free world's largest
Uranium ore-to-metal production center.

WEBSITE: http://www.atomicniagara.wny.org

==================================================

Hey guys, figured I'd post here, I used http://www.allapproveloans.com to
refinance and it cut my bills down alot!

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http://www.allapproveloans.com

Has anyone experimented with the Geet fuel processor. I don't completly
understand it. All I know is it is apparently a plasma fuel generator.

If you have no idea what I'm talking about visit www.geet.com

Cheer's

Andy

see:the website www.himacresearch.com
Bruce McBurney
HIMAC Research and Publishing
6665 McLeod Road,
Niagara Falls
Ontario, Canada
L2G 3G3
FAX  (905) 358-9439
Phone  (905) 358-8541
EMail  bmcburne@...

----- Original Message -----
From: "mtndrew77" <twosimple4u77@...>
To: <TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 11:19 AM
Subject: [TeslaTurbine] Geet fuel processor


> Has anyone experimented with the Geet fuel processor. I don't completly
> understand it. All I know is it is apparently a plasma fuel generator.
>
> If you have no idea what I'm talking about visit www.geet.com
>
> Cheer's
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Plasma Torch type furnaces
	 or
Garbage in Energy out

The GEET introduction talks about using exhaust to
heat the fuel.
The GEET introduction also talks about cold air and
hot air electrostatic charge buildup.
Ostensively the electrostatic charges and the
temperatures created could create plasmas.

I have looked into some available and working plasma
torch furnaces, a good web site is:
http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/Waste2Energy/

others are:
http://nett21.gec.jp/JSIM_DATA/WASTE/WASTE_3/html/Doc_471.html
http://www.plasmaindia.com/medicalpyro.html
http://www.tetronics.com/pdffiles/waste.pdf
http://www.climatetechnology.gov/library/2003/tech-options/tech-options-4-3-1.pd\
f
http://www.rcl-plasma.com/overview.htm
http://www.westinghouse-plasma.com/pfc.htm
http://www50.dt.navy.mil/efd/incin/Incinerate.html


--- Les Sutch <lsutch@...> wrote:
> see:the website www.himacresearch.com
> Bruce McBurney
> HIMAC Research and Publishing
> 6665 McLeod Road,
> Niagara Falls
> Ontario, Canada
> L2G 3G3
> FAX  (905) 358-9439
> Phone  (905) 358-8541
> EMail  bmcburne@...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mtndrew77" <twosimple4u77@...>
> To: <TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 11:19 AM
> Subject: [TeslaTurbine] Geet fuel processor
>
>
> > Has anyone experimented with the Geet fuel
> processor. I don't completly
> > understand it. All I know is it is apparently a
> plasma fuel generator.
> >
> > If you have no idea what I'm talking about visit
> www.geet.com
> >
> > Cheer's
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>



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--- In TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com, "
"cpspqepvxun"
<cpspqepvxun@y...> wrote:
> I found this service that helped me refinance my home
mortgage saving me thousands of dollars a year. Here is a free
service that can help.
http://tpbaj.com/i/LzMvaW5kZXgvd2F6ZWUvOTFqdzFmbDlmcW0
xaTlocmJ4 take 30 seconds and fill out this free form to save
money"

It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that this is not
an
appropriate posting for this chat group.  At the top of the group
page is this header: "Dedicated to the work and inventions of
Nikola Tesla, the turbine site discusses specifically the turbine
and uses of this ..." etc.

Marlin Mackley