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'Socorro' Update   Message List  
Reply Message #386 of 2635 |
Re: [UFORL] 'Socorro' Update

If Zamora had encountered a hot-air balloon, it was evidently
all-white and there certainly weren't many of those around at the
time.

Even rarer at that date was any balloon with a sizeable
manufacturer's emblem, or sponsorship logo.

Consequently, Zamora's reported 'insignia' remains one of the
peculiar aspects, which isn't helped by his discrepancies.

The related sketch he made, shown here:

http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/a1999/mar/socorro2.jpg

...notably differs from the confirmation given to Chris Lambright
some years later:

http://www.cufon.org/contributors/chrisl/socorro.htm

I'm sure it was Joel Carpenter who pointed out that this
subsequent 'insignia' resembles the logo for Sandia National
Laboratories.

Conceivably some connection with the Sandia facility at
Albuquerque?

If not, there's perhaps more of a coincidence here than generally
realised.

Coral Lorenzen interviewed Zamora the day afterwards and in her
1966 book, 'Flying Saucers', wrote:

"The markings were in red, consisting of a vertical line topped
by two slanting lines that gave the impression of an arrow. This
was surrounded by a horizontal line on the bottom, a vertical
line on each side, and a semi-circle over the top of the arrow".

This is essentially as Zamora sketched for Chris Lambright, not
as he depicted on that earlier drawing.

It's also different from Zamora's sketches reproduced in 'Socorro
Saucer', by Ray Stanford. Again, these illustrate a semi-circular
arch covering the 'arrow', not "a vertical line on each side, and
a semi-circle over the top".


Did Sandia therefore have a comparative 'aerial vehicle' of some
kind in operation that day [Zamora's 'UFO' came from the
_general_ direction of ABQ] and was their current logo in use,
maybe coloured red, in 1964.

Although any connection seemed most unlikely, especially that
Sandia would, for some reason, be utilising a hot-air balloon in
1964, this was a possibility which strictly required to be
eliminated.

I had made due enquiries of Rebecca Ullrich, the Research
Historian at Sandia and Rebecca has been helpful in clarifying a
key issue. She writes:

"The Sandia logo has always been portrayed in turquoise. It did
change slightly in the early 1970s, so looked different in 1964
than it does now. The earlier version was more bird-like in
appearance and looked even less like the red image you've
provided than does the current logo".

I note there is in fact a copy of Sandia's original emblem on
their web site, at:

http://www.sandia.gov/recordsmgmt/oldtbird.gif

Rebecca has offered to investigate the matter further and that's
greatly appreciated.

However, it would seem we can surely rule out any link.


This returns the focus to limited options. Although some all-
white Raven hot-air balloons existed contemporary with the
Socorro case, there's currently no indication any of them would
have borne a symbol similar to Zamora's description.

Outwith Raven, circa 1964 some early hot-air balloon enthusiasts
and entrepreneurs constructed balloons for their own use, or by
others. Information on these is difficult to find so many years
later, although I know it does exist and there's one prime
candidate for an all-white balloon which did, at least in 1965,
contain a large 'bird' emblem, which isn't that dissimilar to
some of Zamora's drawings.

So far as Zamora's insignia, 'Sandia', as with 'International
Paper' - a logo which was also remarkably similar - certainly
seems to be a 'dead end'.

No surprise and many avenues of related research await,
hopefully, equally informative responses from potentially
significant sources.


James Easton.
E-mail: voyager@...
www.ufoworld.co.uk






Thu Dec 20, 2001 12:28 am

james_easton
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Message #386 of 2635 |
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In 'Flying Saucers Are Hostile', by Brad Steiger and Joan Whritenour, the authors mention an incident involving "Ten-year- old Sharon Stull of Albuquerque". ...
James Easton
james_easton
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Dec 14, 2001
3:25 am

... Larry Robinson S/AP/EIS lrobins@... Indiana University (812) 855-5073 Room 42 Kinesiology Dept...
Robinson, Larry
lrobins@...
Send Email
Dec 14, 2001
6:15 pm

Regarding Zamora's encounter with an object that had many characteristics of a hot-air balloon, one other candidate for an early, 1964 hot-air balloon was some...
James Easton
james_easton
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Dec 15, 2001
4:20 am

... Scratch that - I've been able to contact Prof. Moore directly. Incidentally, the related question isn't if he might have had some involvement in the...
James Easton
james_easton
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Dec 15, 2001
6:30 am

... I've located the source of Prof. Moore's aforementioned statement and believe this photograph can now be set in context. My thanks to Karl Pflock for...
James Easton
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Dec 16, 2001
12:49 am

... Larry, Duly noted. For the record, I've discovered [not from Prof. Moore] that the New Mexico Tech hot-air balloon was slightly older in construction than...
James Easton
james_easton
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Dec 19, 2001
1:05 am

If Zamora had encountered a hot-air balloon, it was evidently all-white and there certainly weren't many of those around at the time. Even rarer at that date...
James Easton
james_easton
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Dec 20, 2001
12:48 am

James - ... One of the things I wonder about in the Socorro case is just how representative of the object Zamora's sketches really are. I don't know what UFO...
joel carpenter
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Dec 20, 2001
5:57 pm

... Joel, If only... One point which stands out is that Zamora was seemingly never asked to elaborate on how large he thought the object was, especially when...
James Easton
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Dec 21, 2001
1:27 am

... Joel, This perhaps implies the reasons expressed for those doubts remain significant obstacles to a hot-air balloon being responsible. In fact, all of the...
James Easton
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Dec 24, 2001
2:54 am

... Where I noted: It's also been contended that a hot-air balloon would have to be much larger than the object Zamora witnessed. A conspicuous omission from...
James Easton
james_easton
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Dec 29, 2001
6:06 am

... [...] ... I would now propose there has always been a significant misunderstanding concerning this aspect of 'Socorro'. Zamora did not, as has previously...
James Easton
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Dec 30, 2001
5:16 am

One other thing to remember: In 1964, police radios were TUBE. The transistor was not yet powerful enough or reliable enough to put in equipment of this type....
Robinson, Larry
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Jan 7, 2002
4:45 pm

In a message dated 1/7/2002 11:47:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, lrobins@... writes: << In 1964, police radios were TUBE. The transistor was not yet...
YoungBob2@...
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Jan 8, 2002
8:19 am

10 to 15 seconds. But if he was in a hurry, it might have seemed like more. It would depend on how long the power was off too. After 2 minutes, the full 20 to...
Robinson, Larry
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Jan 8, 2002
8:05 pm

... Larry, Interesting point. We can only note Zamora's subsequent, 1967 revelation - I can't see any previous mention that the radio wasn't initially working ...
James Easton
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Jan 9, 2002
3:12 pm

... Anyway that you could reproduce the entire statement for all to examine James? It would be interesting because I have yet to see Byrnes full statement on...
TPrinty@...
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Jan 9, 2002
11:11 pm

... Tim, This is the full statement, as published in 'Socorro Saucer': Special Agent J. Arthur Byrnes, Jr., Federal Bureau of Investigation, stationed at...
James Easton
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Jan 10, 2002
2:45 am

That's assuming he COULD leave the radio powered up. Because of the huge current drain from tubes (battery killer), it might have been arranged to shut off...
Robinson, Larry
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Jan 10, 2002
2:14 pm

See below ... Larry Robinson S/AP/EIS lrobins@... Indiana University (812) 855-5073 Room 42 Kinesiology Dept...
Robinson, Larry
lrobins@...
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Jan 10, 2002
3:16 pm

In a message dated 1/9/2002 9:46:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, voyager@... writes: << There are also of course precedents, for example, as reported...
YoungBob2@...
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Jan 10, 2002
4:41 pm

... Or did it just disappear because the balloon was so distant? How far would it have to go? My guess is about 6 miles (apparent size would shrink to under ...
TPrinty@...
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Jan 10, 2002
11:56 pm

When is a hot-air balloon, not a hot-air balloon.... Not only perhaps when it's a UFO, but also when it's a Pilot Aerial Survival System [PASS]! According to...
James Easton
james_easton
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Jan 18, 2002
2:14 pm

... Tim, It's 'been a long time...' since related, demonstrably deficient Socorro 'research', or religious ET provocations, have been of any remote relevance. ...
James Easton
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Jan 25, 2002
4:03 am

As mentioned to Joel, I've recently come across case material which I had personally never seen previously. The first item is a copy of an FBI teletype, dated...
James Easton
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Feb 2, 2002
6:23 am

... "In testimony to Congress in 1970, Herbert Scoville noted that fixed land-based ICBMs 'require extensive launch-site construction in order to provide the...
Joel Carpenter
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Feb 2, 2002
7:36 pm

Extracted from 'Saucer Smear', Volume 41, No. 8, November 1st, 1994: PROF. CHARLES MOORE of Roswell fame writes: At Jim McDonald's request, I investigated the...
James Easton
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Mar 12, 2002
2:49 am

Hi, Jon Downes of Britain's Centre for Fortean Zoology has asked me to post a message for anyone who has contacted him and is awaiting a reply regarding his...
skywatcher4u@...
ramonic2001
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Mar 13, 2002
12:12 am
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