--- On Sat, 7/4/09, groucoeng <groucoeng@...> wrote:


> > A simple question for you, then----
> >
> > Can we, or can we not, have socialism (whether through
> election or through revolution) without an organized working
> class?
> >
> > If we can, tell me HOW.
> >
> > If we can't, then how is "the existence of an
> organized working class" NOT a material precondition for
> socialism, without which all of our efforts come to
> nothing?




Answer seems to be missing . . . . . .




> Reading the above begs the question.



No, it IS the question. You want to know how to destroy capitalism and bring
about socialism. Organizing the working class is the way. It is the ONLY way.
Anything else is just pie in the sky puffery.



> As a member of the
> working class who wants to see an end to capitalism as soon
> as possible, could you give some idea on the best way for us
> workers to organise to that end?



As a member of the working class who wants to see an end to capitalism as soon
as possible, you don't need ME to tell you how to organize to that end.

Ask your fellow workers how they want to organize.

Of course, though, your fellow workers will need to be organized around the
issues and concerns that THEY have and want to fight, not around the issues and
concerns that YOU want them to have and want to fight. Alas, their wants are the
ones that mater, not yours. That may be a blow to your utopian ego.

Nevertheless, the very first step towards the end of capitalism is an organized
working class that is willing to fight together for mutual goals and ends. If
we never take that first step, then none of the other steps will ever follow.

So if you want to see an end to capitalism, you will have to begin at the
beginning. You cannot, alas, skip right to the end without all the beginning
steps first.



================================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"

Editor, Red and Black Publishers
http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com