Lenny,

I think (y)our problem is that we are in the United States.

If we lived in Latin America, we might see the acceptance and embracing of
socialism as a fairly successful and growing phenomonon.

Apathy and silence is complicity with the Imperialist War Crimes of the United
States Government. It is hard to guage what people are thinking about the
failure of the economy here (in the US) and the workers devaluation to third
world conditions while the Capitalists carry on their First World lifestyles.
The media keeps us preoccupied with irrelevancies and commercial and political
propaganda. The media tells us what to think. It suits the Capitalists to
believe it. The "workers' either ignore it and adopt a hedonistic outlook on
life and/or they dread over it. I think. It's hard to guage how many of the
"workers" are suffering and how many of them are Capitalists clinging to their
financial competitive advantage.


Mike Morin




________________________________
From: Lenny Flank <lflank@...>
To: WSM_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 10:49:43 AM
Subject: Re: [WSM_Forum] Re: why wsm has not grown? Lenny you must have missed
this posting.







--- On Sun, 7/5/09, robbo203 <robbo203@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

> > Alas, what we think doesn't matter.� Socialism
> will come from the needs and wants of millions of people all
> over the world.� It won't come from this "party
> program" or that "party program".� No one cares about
> the "party programs" of all the nsocialist groupuscules.
> >
>
>
> Again this is too mechanistic.�

No, it is mechanisitc or deterministic. It is historical materialism.

Our needs and wants come from our economic and social reality. They don't come
from idealistic or utopian preaching.

> How do you imagine
> that the needs and wants of millions of people translate
> into the will to establish socialism if not through the
> mediation of ideas, though "thinking" about it.�

Through millions of people thinking about what THEY want and how to get it ---
not through some self-elected priesthood TELLING them what they SHOULD want and
how to get it.

See the difference?

> AN individual conversation may not matter in the grand
> scheme of things.� But millions of individual
> conversations do add up to something.�

Apparently not, since we have had billions of individual conversations for the
past 100 years and have gotten nowhere. (shrug) If you want to keep conversing
for the next few centuries, well, good luck with that.

>Or do you
> imagine that it is something called "Fate" or "Destiny" that
> determines whether we have socialism or not
>

Nope. It is material economic conditions which determine whether we have
socialism or not.

Until those conditions are there, we won't have it. No matter how long or how
hard we preach it.

============ ========= ========= ========= =========
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"

Editor, Red and Black Publishers
http://www.RedandBl ackPublishers. com







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