I just got this post after answering Dave's post. Thanks for clearing up the
mirabilis 'smilesii' issue, Marcello. We do indeed consider the plant in the
photo to be a smilesii (syn. anamensis). :)

T & M



>From: "rafflesiana" <rafflesiana@...>
>Reply-To: WildJungle@yahoogroups.com
>To: WildJungle@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [WildJungle] Re: [CP] thai species and herbarium specimens
>Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:22:17 -0000
>
> > Right, I read all that material. However, the problem is that when I
> > spoke to Dr. Jan Schlauer, he mentions that when he examined specimens
> > with the name _Nepenthes smilesii_ on them, he was certain he was
>looking
> > at material of _Nepenthes mirabilis_. My question is, what specimens
>did
> > he look at? The same as Martin Cheek?
>
>
>ooooh, I see, I think that can be easily cleared up. They looked at
>different herbarium specimens. Remember that: the two growers that in
>the eighties introduced N. mirabilis "var. anamensis/smilesii" (a
>simple red mirabilis, maybe from Thailand, that could be the source of
>the mistake) in cultivation were germans. So maybe if Jan examined the
>specimens in Germany he saw specimens given to the Botanic Garden by
>these two growers. OR: the specimens in the Botanic Garden in Germany
>were wrong and they were just N. mirabilis labelled N.
>mirabilis "smilesii/anamensis". When the two growers in the eighties
>visited the Botanic Garden they made the same mistake labelling their
>plants the same way.
>Martin wrote me that he READ the Hemsley description but it's not very
>useful (see my website). But then he SAW the TYPE SPECIMEN that Hemsley
>used to describe the new species N. smilesii. And he sais that type
>specimen is the same plant that we call N.
>anamensis/kampotiana/geoffrayi from Phu Kradung and other places.
>Now, the only tragedy would come if Jan examined the same specimen that
>Martin examined (as up to now we can just trust Martin, as that type
>specimen hasn't been photographed...as soon as you do it, write me!!!)
>and Jan thinks it's mirabilis while Martin thinks it's smilesii. But I
>think that's impossible.
>I can say that in 3 thai herbariums I found lots of nepenthes with
>wrong names, then corrected by Martin. So it's very likely that
>everything that comes from Thailand has been labelled, in some Bot.
>Gardens, with "N. rafflesiana, thorelii, mirabilis" etc, without having
>any idea of the true shape and origin of these species.
>
>By the way, I saw your plant and it's definately N. smilesii. I read
>Trent's answer and I was surprised about his doubts...but then I saw he
>wrote it in 2004! Probably at the time he wasn't able to distinguish
>smilesii, thorelii etc...now I'm sure he is :))))))))))
>Marcello
>
>
>