I picked up some refractory cement at Home Depot; other hardware
stores may carry it.  It costs about $15/gal.  rated 2000 deg.F (~900
deg.C).  Claims to seal holes and joints.  Alternative to welding?
Seems like a great way to increase efficiency by reducing sidewall
conductivity of steel.  Ceramic cookstoves have significantly higher
efficiency than uninsulated metal stoves (Sci Am).  One website also
suggested filling the cement with sawdust.  I haven't tested it yet.

MP

I felt all day today following yesterday's SOTU address
that the Woodgas group had suddenly moved to NPR. Topics
like coal gassification, ethanol production, and
switchback grass all cropped (pun!) up.


--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Easton, Jo" <jeaston@...> wrote:
>
> Hi-
>
>
>
> My name is Joellen Easton, and I work for the public radio show
> Marketplace <http://www.marketplace.org/> .  We've been covering
> environmental and energy stories for years, but this fall we've made a
> commitment to covering sustainability issues in new and deeper ways.
> We're treating sustainability in its broadest sense - as an emerging
> principle that applies not just to environmental issues, but to the
> economy, politics, architecture, design and communities....  And we need
> your input.
>
>
>
> Marketplace wants to tap the knowledge, insight and direct experience of
> people involved in sustainability issues to help inform and design our
> coverage... people like you.  We're hoping you'll also help us find and
> break new stories.
>
>
>
> I joined this listserv so I can hear the buzz, discover new and bold
> ideas, and -- I hope -- engage you as a public source.
>
>
>
> Click here <http://www.publicradio.org/sustainabilitysurvey/>  to share
> your thoughts on issues you think Marketplace should cover.  We'll send
> you an email every month or two asking for help with specific stories.
> You can respond to the ones that are relevant to you, and ignore the
> rest.
>
>
>
> Or if you just want to make contact for now, you can tell us about your
> expertise and interests
> <http://americanpublicmedia.publicradio.org/publicinsightjournalism/cont
> act_signup.php> , and I'll be in touch about our story plans.
>
>
>
> By clicking on either of the above links and filling out the surveys,
> you're helping us learn from smart people across the country who are
> engaged with sustainability in various ways.  You can also email me
> directly with questions, ideas for coverage, and tips on stories.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Joellen Easton
>
> Analyst, Public Insight Journalism
>
> Marketplace | Marketplace Morning Report | Marketplace Money
> American Public Media
>
>
>
> PS: If the links above don't work, try these instead:
>
> Link to sustainability survey/signup form:
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> <blocked::http://www.publicradio.org/sustainabilitysurvey/>
> Link to general signup form:
> http://americanpublicmedia.publicradio.org/publicinsightjournalism/conta
> ct_signup.php
> <blocked::http://americanpublicmedia.publicradio.org/publicinsightjourna
> lism/contact_signup.php>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Called Hot Logs in Ca., since Wal-Mart in town didn't have the 100%
  recycled wax cardboard logs and he said Home Depot has Enviro-Log, which is
the same thing.  Called their Rochester store (where the PCA office is) and
they
  have them. So the PCA should change it's regulation or start with Home
Depot.
  The huge difference between the boxes I get from supermarkets in town and
  Enviro-Logs is the energy to shred, compress, bag and ship Enviro-Logs from
Ga. to
   Rochester, Mn..

   Hot Log claims that l.5 million new waxed cardboard boxes are produced
each
   day in the U.S. and 95% or 660 thousand tons a year go to landfills.

   I'm sure that if someone drove across country as was/is done with UVO,
  except
   with a l or 2 ton truck with the truck box full of waxed cardboard, easily
   obtained from any supermarket and signs telling that it was powered only
by
   those boxes firing a gasifier, (and the story of the 2 million wood
  gasifier
   powered vehicles during WW 2) it would make the local news and give many
  something to think and talk about in every town it passed through.

   Dick Gallien
   22501 East Burns Valley Rd
   Winona MN 55987  [507] 454 3126
   dickgallien@...
   www.thewinonafarm.com

Wow! What an AWESOME idea, D.G.! Somebody get this going ASAP, please!

   Along with the Veggie Oil Bus (or whatever it's called) going around promoting
use of biodeisel, we could have a Biomassmobile, raising awareness about the
usefulness of all that "waste" (valuable, unrecognised fuel)  that at present
goes into landfills. I would jump to get in on and support such an adventure.

   Only one uninvited item in the punch bowl (so to speak, ahem) comes to mind;
would the Dept. Of Transportation give a woodgas fuelled vehicle user grief, as
I've heard they have done with those who manufacture and use their own biodeisel
to power vehicles, for not paying road taxes?

   Cheerio,

   Beth B.
   Kickapoo River Watershed
   Driftless Region

   p.s. Dick Gallion, when we spoke on the phone the other day (great
conversation, touching on everything from waxed cardboard to unschooling and
ducks), asked me if I thought anybody at WoodGas knew what "Driftless Region"
means. I replied that I reckoned if anyone wanted to know, they'd ask. So --
please, feel free to contact me, if you're curious.

  
................................................................................\
............................................

   Dick Gallien <dickgallien@...> wrote:

   Called Hot Logs in Ca., since Wal-Mart in town didn't have the 100% recycled
wax cardboard logs and he said Home Depot has Enviro-Log, which is the same
thing.  Called their Rochester store (where the PCA office is) and they have
them. So the PCA should change it's regulation or start with Home Depot. The
huge difference between the boxes I get from supermarkets in town and
Enviro-Logs is the energy to shred, compress, bag and ship Enviro-Logs from Ga.
to Rochester, Mn..

Hot Log claims that l.5 million new waxed cardboard boxes are produced each day
in the U.S. and 95% or 660 thousand tons a year go to landfills.

I'm sure that if someone drove across country as was/is done with UVO, except
with a l or 2 ton truck with the truck box full of waxed cardboard, easily
obtained from any supermarket and signs telling that it was powered only by
those boxes firing a gasifier, (and the story of the 2 million wood
   gasifier powered vehicles during WW 2) it would make the local news and give
many something to think and talk about in every town it passed through.

   Dick Gallien
   22501 East Burns Valley Rd
   Winona MN 55987  [507] 454 3126
   dickgallien@...
   www.thewinonafarm.com












---------------------------------
  Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 10:05 3/02/06, Beth wrote:
>
>   p.s. Dick Gallion, when we spoke on the phone the other day
> (great conversation, touching on everything from waxed cardboard to
> unschooling and ducks), asked me if I thought anybody at WoodGas
> knew what "Driftless Region" means. I replied that I reckoned if
> anyone wanted to know, they'd ask. So -- please, feel free to
> contact me, if you're curious.

I'd like to know. See my addie above.

Kurt


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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/248 - Release Date: 1/02/06

There is a product called Plicast 36 it is rated at 3100 degrees, comes dry
in 50 pound bags.

Doug

WHAT IS a road tax?
I dont think that you find any laws on the books in your state that refers
to the powerplant on an automobile.  Years ago, I read about people in the
alternative fuel community complaining about the fuzz getting down on them
for an unspecified violation, but they were so vague, it made me think that
they were inventing a crime to cover up the one they really broke, like no
insurance, or DUI.  Dont worry about it.  Besides, if you walk into court
for a ticket, and there is a judge who just spent 50 dollars filling up his
tank, dont worry, your ticket is dismissed, and he humiliates the cop if he
shows up.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beth E. Baker" <driftlessfriend@...>
To: <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 7:05 PM
Subject: [WoodGas] waxed cardboard-->Biomassmobile!


> Wow! What an AWESOME idea, D.G.! Somebody get this going ASAP, please!
>
>  Along with the Veggie Oil Bus (or whatever it's called) going around
> promoting use of biodeisel, we could have a Biomassmobile, raising
> awareness about the usefulness of all that "waste" (valuable, unrecognised
> fuel)  that at present goes into landfills. I would jump to get in on and
> support such an adventure.
>
>  Only one uninvited item in the punch bowl (so to speak, ahem) comes to
> mind; would the Dept. Of Transportation give a woodgas fuelled vehicle
> user grief, as I've heard they have done with those who manufacture and
> use their own biodeisel to power vehicles, for not paying road taxes?
>
>  Cheerio,
>
>  Beth B.
>  Kickapoo River Watershed
>  Driftless Region
>
>  p.s. Dick Gallion, when we spoke on the phone the other day (great
> conversation, touching on everything from waxed cardboard to unschooling
> and ducks), asked me if I thought anybody at WoodGas knew what "Driftless
> Region" means. I replied that I reckoned if anyone wanted to know, they'd
> ask. So -- please, feel free to contact me, if you're curious.
>
>
>
................................................................................\
............................................
>
>  Dick Gallien <dickgallien@...> wrote:
>
>  Called Hot Logs in Ca., since Wal-Mart in town didn't have the 100%
> recycled wax cardboard logs and he said Home Depot has Enviro-Log, which
> is the same thing.  Called their Rochester store (where the PCA office is)
> and they have them. So the PCA should change it's regulation or start with
> Home Depot. The huge difference between the boxes I get from supermarkets
> in town and Enviro-Logs is the energy to shred, compress, bag and ship
> Enviro-Logs from Ga. to Rochester, Mn..
>
> Hot Log claims that l.5 million new waxed cardboard boxes are produced
> each day in the U.S. and 95% or 660 thousand tons a year go to landfills.
>
> I'm sure that if someone drove across country as was/is done with UVO,
> except with a l or 2 ton truck with the truck box full of waxed cardboard,
> easily obtained from any supermarket and signs telling that it was powered
> only by those boxes firing a gasifier, (and the story of the 2 million
> wood
>  gasifier powered vehicles during WW 2) it would make the local news and
> give many something to think and talk about in every town it passed
> through.
>
>  Dick Gallien
>  22501 East Burns Valley Rd
>  Winona MN 55987  [507] 454 3126
>  dickgallien@...
>  www.thewinonafarm.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

In a very general sense, refractory cement seems to be very similar to
other cements, like portland cement; you just add water, and any other
ingredients you want, then mix it, mold it, shoot it through a gun
(like "gunite" or "shotcrete"), or whatever.

"Plicast" appears to be one type of "castable refractory cement".
Anyone know what material properties are associated with the
"castable" designation?

There seem to be lots of types of refractory cement products.  The
differences seem to depend on which tradeoffs are taken, between:
cost, availability, max operating temp, adhesive qualities, tensile &
compressive strength, etc.

The chemistry is tremendously complicated, but basically, unlike
portland cement, it seems that refractory cement doesn't "hydrate" and
bond to water.  Rather, when heated, the water is released more
gracefully without cracking the cement and destroying the structure.
The thermal curing process is reminiscent of the pre-firing
preparation of ceramics, where a long, slow heat is applied to slowly
drive off the water.

Oh, by the way, insulating value of a material depends on the thermal
conductivities of it's components.  The thermal conductivity of
cement, is a fraction of that of steel.  But all solids have MUCH
higher conductivity than gases, so the greater insulating effect is
actually due to the little pockets of trapped air or gases and the
resulting high-porosity, low-density material.

So for example, if you want a higher insulating value and you can
afford to sacrifice strength, you might consider adding a material
like vermiculite or sawdust, as apposed to pearlite, since when it's
heated , the additive will (presumably) change state and leave a
little insulating pocket of gases.

-MP


--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "doug" <doug@...> wrote:
>
> There is a product called Plicast 36 it is rated at 3100 degrees,
comes dry
> in 50 pound bags.
>
> Doug
>

It means that it can be cast like cement or concrete, you can cast it into
complicated shapes. One thing that is difficult is reinforcing it as it has a
very different thermal expansion to steel rebar. Vermiculite is used extensively
as has been pointed out
   One way that it can be supported until it dries is by the use of expanded
polystyrene foam block, which can be burnt out easily and is far easier to
remove than a timber former. The EPS can be easily cut with a hot wire cutter or
some sign makers have machines which will cut the EPS by cnc. I know that people
are not really happy using petro chemicals but 95% of EPS is air and it can be
recycled relatively simply.
   I just think that it is a great product maybe others feel different, but since
my son is in the EPS business I have come to appreciate it's value and
flexibility.

   Robin

mphillipps2 <mphillipps2@...> wrote:
   In a very general sense, refractory cement seems to be very similar to
other cements, like portland cement; you just add water, and any other
ingredients you want, then mix it, mold it, shoot it through a gun
(like "gunite" or "shotcrete"), or whatever.

"Plicast" appears to be one type of "castable refractory cement".
Anyone know what material properties are associated with the
"castable" designation?

There seem to be lots of types of refractory cement products.  The
differences seem to depend on which tradeoffs are taken, between:
cost, availability, max operating temp, adhesive qualities, tensile &
compressive strength, etc.

The chemistry is tremendously complicated, but basically, unlike
portland cement, it seems that refractory cement doesn't "hydrate" and
bond to water.  Rather, when heated, the water is released more
gracefully without cracking the cement and destroying the structure.
The thermal curing process is reminiscent of the pre-firing
preparation of ceramics, where a long, slow heat is applied to slowly
drive off the water.

Oh, by the way, insulating value of a material depends on the thermal
conductivities of it's components.  The thermal conductivity of
cement, is a fraction of that of steel.  But all solids have MUCH
higher conductivity than gases, so the greater insulating effect is
actually due to the little pockets of trapped air or gases and the
resulting high-porosity, low-density material.

So for example, if you want a higher insulating value and you can
afford to sacrifice strength, you might consider adding a material
like vermiculite or sawdust, as apposed to pearlite, since when it's
heated , the additive will (presumably) change state and leave a
little insulating pocket of gases.

-MP


--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "doug" <doug@...> wrote:
>
> There is a product called Plicast 36 it is rated at 3100 degrees,
comes dry
> in 50 pound bags.
>
> Doug
>





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Feb 3, 2006, at 2:00 PM, ROBIN DUMPLETON wrote:

> I know that people are not really happy using petro chemicals but
> 95% of EPS is air and it can be recycled relatively simply.

I've never heard of a foam made with air.   In my experience the
'blowing gas' is usually pentane.

I nearly passed out from inhaling the smoke from a hot wire cutter
slicing expanded foam and was shaky for 24 hours after that.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So, is there anyone here that has used refractory cement as an insulation in
making the pyrolisi chamber a wood gas generator?

I read an aussie site that said they did and it cracked and failed rather
quickly.
I can't find the link right now though.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The area of the upper Midwest that was untouched by the last glaciation of North
Amercia...thus it didn't "drift" by the back and forth scouring action of the
glaciers: Southwest Wisconsin, Northwest Illinois, Northeast Iowa, and Southeast
Minnesota.

   John Fritz, NW Arkansas.


Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:05:35 -0800 (PST)
From: "Beth E. Baker"
Subject: waxed cardboard-->Biomassmobile!

Wow! What an AWESOME idea, D.G.! Somebody get this going ASAP, please!

Along with the Veggie Oil Bus (or whatever it's called) going around promoting
use of biodeisel, we could have a Biomassmobile, raising awareness about the
usefulness of all that "waste" (valuable, unrecognised fuel) that at present
goes into landfills. I would jump to get in on and support such an adventure.

Only one uninvited item in the punch bowl (so to speak, ahem) comes to mind;
would the Dept. Of Transportation give a woodgas fuelled vehicle user grief, as
I've heard they have done with those who manufacture and use their own biodeisel
to power vehicles, for not paying road taxes?

Cheerio,

Beth B.
Kickapoo River Watershed
Driftless Region

p.s. Dick Gallion, when we spoke on the phone the other day (great conversation,
touching on everything from waxed cardboard to unschooling and ducks), asked me
if I thought anybody at WoodGas knew what "Driftless Region" means. I replied
that I reckoned if anyone wanted to know, they'd ask. So -- please, feel free to
contact me, if you're curious.



---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
  PhotoMail  - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would expect that most types of cement or concrete could be casted
to some extent.  Maybe it would have been more to my point to ask: Is
there such a thing as a non-castable cement?

Perhaps the mold could be removed more easily buy using a mold release
agent; it would probably be quicker and easier, plus the mold isn't
destroyed in the process, so it can be reused or "recycled".

The numbers I found say that the thermal expansion (CTE) of refractory
cement is matched by both stainless steel and copper (data and sources
below).  These might be suitable materials for reinforcement in a
cement composite.

IIRC, EPS is filled with something other than air, and to some extent,
that may be part of the environmental concern.  FYI, EPS/PS is also
one of the least recyclable plastics.  Other than that, I agree it's a
great material.

I'm reminded of this irrelavent anecdote: I once saw a positive mold
made with EPS, then used to make a negative mold in cement.  Then a
casting of molten lead was poured, and the lead "melted" away the EPS.
  It worked fairly well, although there seemed to be some voids where
the liquid EPS had pooled.  Given that the casting material (lead) is
a soft metal, there was some question about the structural integrity
of the casting.  Anyway, the casting was drilled and coated to make a
sailboat keel, and it worked out okay in the end.

-MP
-------------------------

CTE
---
steel: 7.7-9.2 CTE linear @ 500 degC (ppm/deg.F) http://www.matweb.com/

copper: 11.2 CTE linear @ 500 degC (ppm/deg.F) http://www.matweb.com/

stainless steel: 9.6-10.8 CTE linear @ 500 degC (ppm/deg.F)
http://www.matweb.com/

Aluminum: 15.2 CTE linear @ 500 degC (ppm/deg.F) http://www.matweb.com/
--------
refractory cement: 10.9 (ppm/deg.F), omegabond ob-500,
http://www.omega.com/manuals/manualpdf/M1241.pdf

Just make an exact mold to duplicate the part and make sacrificial bolds out
of something easily destroyed, like a wood over or outer mold, used to hold
the inner mold made of something like, perhaps a thick paper mache (spelling?)
packed tightly.
When you cast the part, remove the wood over/outer mold and just torch the
paper.


In a message dated 2/3/06 10:23:36 PM, mphillipps2@... writes:


Perhaps the mold could be removed more easily buy using a mold release
agent; it would probably be quicker and easier, plus the mold isn't
destroyed in the process, so it can be reused or "recycled".




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings All !

  I'm having trouble finding any good photos or drawings of door
latches for wood burning equipment (stoves, boilers, etc.) IN
PARTICULAR I'm looking for the "double lock" style, where the latch
requires an extra release of a catch, for backdraft containment.

  Any links, drawing, photos would be greatly apprecietated.

Greg Manning.

I have used it to in a forge for melting aluminum. I used it for
mortor between bricks and it didnt crack but i let it dry for over
six months before firing it and when i did light it i didnt warm it
up all at once i lit a small fire with out forced air and slowly
opned the damper till it was fully open it took about two hours to
before i opened it all the way.


--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, banditknight@... wrote:
>
> So, is there anyone here that has used refractory cement as an
insulation in
> making the pyrolisi chamber a wood gas generator?
>
> I read an aussie site that said they did and it cracked and failed
rather
> quickly.
> I can't find the link right now though.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Greg:

There is a pretty su\imple setup on an old wood/coal furnace I have out
back.  There is a tab on the latch bar that hits the lip of the damper
door and stops you from opening the feed door unless the damper door has
been raised first.  I think that's what you are after.  Pictures here.  My
angle doesn't show very well that the damper is open in the bottom pic but
the tab on the latch bar does hold it open about half way or a little more
when the latch is raised to the "open" position.  I could get you some
measurements tomorrow if you are interested.

http://home.gci.net/~wesjones/02-04-0001.jpg

Best, wes


On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 00:35:04 -0500, the_a31ford <a31ford@...>
wrote:

> latches for wood burning equipment (stoves, boilers, etc.) IN
> PARTICULAR I'm looking for the "double lock" style, where the latch
> requires an extra release of a catch, for backdraft containment.
>
>  Any links, drawing, photos would be greatly apprecietated.

Greetings Wes, and List,

  Perfect, thank you for the photo's! That is the "interlock" I was looking
for, but the latch mechanism itself, does it pull the door in tighter, when
you push down on the handle ?

  I guess the entire thing I'm looking for is both the interlock and
latch.....

But the photo's are fantastic demonstrations of "mechanical technology".
keep up the great work !

Greg Manning



-----Original Message-----
From: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WoodGas@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of Wes Jones
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 1:09 AM
To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WoodGas] Door Latch, Styles


Greg:

There is a pretty su\imple setup on an old wood/coal furnace I have out
back.  There is a tab on the latch bar that hits the lip of the damper
door and stops you from opening the feed door unless the damper door has
been raised first.  I think that's what you are after.  Pictures here.  My
angle doesn't show very well that the damper is open in the bottom pic but
the tab on the latch bar does hold it open about half way or a little more
when the latch is raised to the "open" position.  I could get you some
measurements tomorrow if you are interested.

http://home.gci.net/~wesjones/02-04-0001.jpg

Best, wes


On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 00:35:04 -0500, the_a31ford <a31ford@...>
wrote:

> latches for wood burning equipment (stoves, boilers, etc.) IN
> PARTICULAR I'm looking for the "double lock" style, where the latch
> requires an extra release of a catch, for backdraft containment.
>
>  Any links, drawing, photos would be greatly apprecietated.



Yahoo! Groups Links







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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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I am going on a week trip, and would like to spend a significant amount of
time reading about bio-diesel

I am in the process of getting ready to produce enough BD for my
transportation needs, about 150 gal a month

I am interested in recommendations on texts with no fluff that are
targeted at skills and equipment required to get up and running on
personal BD production

Please advise !?!?



Peace, Love, Clear Skies,

djs

New & Improved Web Site==>> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/lrgageco

Hi Greg,
I have 2 makes of outdoor wood boiler, with similar but different latches.
They are heavy duty and really clamp the door shut.  The gas build up can
flatten anyone that opens the door too quickly.  Talked with a greenhouse
owner whose large pallet burner blew the door off and caused such damage
that he sued.  The companies have reason to make them well.

There must be outdoor wood boiler dealers where you could get a good look or
if you see a huge plume of smoke, just stop in, for it is probably someone
firing up their boiler or their house is on fire.

Dick Gallien
22501 East Burns Valley Rd
Winona MN 55987  [507] 454 3126
dickgallien@...
www.thewinonafarm.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date: 2/2/2006
>
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> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date: 2/2/2006
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks.
I never would have guessed.

>The area of the upper Midwest that was untouched by the last glaciation of
>North Amercia...thus it didn't "drift" by the back and forth scouring
>action of the glaciers: Southwest Wisconsin, Northwest Illinois, Northeast
>Iowa, and Southeast Minnesota.
>
>  John Fritz, NW Arkansas.
>

You have found that many fried chicken joints that will save
  their chicken fat diluted vegetable cooking oil for you?<G>
  That's about 30 deep fryer changes every month.  As someone who
  used to own a restaurant, I find that amazing!!   regards, Jack F
             ==============================
            Police wear handguns because they are
            a practical means of self defense.
         <http://www.gunsmith.fuselier.com> in East Texas

From: djsiswilddog@... <djsiswilddog@...>
To: wastewatts <wastewatts@yahoogroups.com>, woodgas <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>,
livingoffthegrid <livingoffthegrid@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, February 4, 2006, 7:30:19 AM
Subject: [WoodGas] Biodiesel Books
I am going on a week trip, and would like to spend a significant amount of
time reading about bio-diesel

I am in the process of getting ready to produce enough BD for my
transportation needs, about 150 gal a month

I am interested in recommendations on texts with no fluff that are
targeted at skills and equipment required to get up and running on
personal BD production

Please advise !?!?



Peace, Love, Clear Skies,

djs

New & Improved Web Site==>> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/lrgageco

Yep, be warned, have plenty ventilation when burning acrylics
  or any other kind of plastics, foam or not. regards, Jack F
             ==============================
            Police wear handguns because they are
            a practical means of self defense.
         <http://www.gunsmith.fuselier.com> in East Texas

From: William Carr <Jkirk3279@...>
To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, February 3, 2006, 1:30:04 PM
Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Homemade refractory insulation

On Feb 3, 2006, at 2:00 PM, ROBIN DUMPLETON wrote:

> I know that people are not really happy using petro chemicals but
> 95% of EPS is air and it can be recycled relatively simply.

I've never heard of a foam made with air.   In my experience the
'blowing gas' is usually pentane.

I nearly passed out from inhaling the smoke from a hot wire cutter
slicing expanded foam and was shaky for 24 hours after that.

It should not fail.  A good refractory cement will hold in
a forge at temperatures high enough to melt steel.   Perhaps
what they used was not a good mixture, it was not baked properly
to dry it, or was not installed correctly.
regards, Jack F
             ==============================
            Police wear handguns because they are
            a practical means of self defense.
         <http://www.gunsmith.fuselier.com> in East Texas

From: banditknight@... <banditknight@...>
To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, February 3, 2006, 3:01:14 PM
Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Homemade refractory insulation
So, is there anyone here that has used refractory cement as an insulation in
making the pyrolisi chamber a wood gas generator?

I read an aussie site that said they did and it cracked and failed rather
quickly.
I can't find the link right now though.

Hi Dick, (Was looking at your pages a couple weeks back... :)

  The latch, whichever method I go with, trust me.... will be strong, the
inner firebox is bothside welded 1/4" plate, as well as the door (2 sided
stiffener rib arrangement).

  The entire bottom and lower sidewalls of the firebox are refractory lined,
as well as the entire inside of the door...

I'll be posting some photo's of my progress sometime later today..

The outdoor boiler is estimated at 4600 lbs. with only 270 gallons of water,
that is a LOT of steel & refractory .... :)

Greg



-----Original Message-----
From: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WoodGas@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of Dick Gallien
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 8:01 AM
To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WoodGas] Door Latch, Styles


Hi Greg,
I have 2 makes of outdoor wood boiler, with similar but different latches.
They are heavy duty and really clamp the door shut.  The gas build up can
flatten anyone that opens the door too quickly.  Talked with a greenhouse
owner whose large pallet burner blew the door off and caused such damage
that he sued.  The companies have reason to make them well.

There must be outdoor wood boiler dealers where you could get a good look or
if you see a huge plume of smoke, just stop in, for it is probably someone
firing up their boiler or their house is on fire.

Dick Gallien
22501 East Burns Valley Rd
Winona MN 55987  [507] 454 3126
dickgallien@...
www.thewinonafarm.com
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Yahoo! Groups Links







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Some manufacturers of refractory cements supply datasheets that have a
recommended heating profile (temperature vs. time).  This process
could be monitored with a simple timer and an oven thermometer which
would only cost a few bucks.

Perhaps one could dry the cement in an oven of some type, like a
woodgas "dutch oven", an old toaster oven, or a kitchen oven.  Can
anyone confirm or deny the safety of using a kitchen oven for this?
I'm not sure about the toxicity, but you should be okay as long as you
don't eat the stuff or breathe the dust.  Again, it's wise to read the
entire datasheet.

-MP

On Feb 4, 2006, at 7:19 AM, jackf wrote:

>    Yep, be warned, have plenty ventilation when burning acrylics
>  or any other kind of plastics, foam or not. regards, Jack F

They had used that table for the hot-wire cutter for years.   I
worked at the station next to it for over a week until something
changed...  and the smoke almost got me.

Well, I had to quit at noon and go home.   My lungs were clogged with
the smoke.   Next day, I was shaky until lunch, so that's 24 hours.

My supervisor said "if it's bothering you, it can't be good for the
rest of us either", and decided to move the cutting station to the
back room and do the cutting in front of the open door.

A happy ending.   Except that he went on vacation a week later and
his replacement wasn't interested in common sense, or safety either.

A dimwit I worked with  complained about having to carry that HEAVY
styrofoam another 100 feet !

I told the new guy I couldn't work next to that smoke, and when he
later ordered the cutter brought back into the front room I punched
out and quit.














[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear John F.,

   Uh-yup, that's the text book definition you've got there, in all its accuracy.
Thanks.

   Several people had emailed me (some off list) asking about the Driftless
Region. Hadn't gotten around to responding quite yet. But your response pretty
well takes it all in.

   The only thing I'd have said differently would be that we are inclined
hereabouts to say that the "driftless" means that the glaciers didn't "drift"
over the land; a relatively minor distinction.

   It's a beautiful region (so's NW Arkansas, IMO); lovely, low rolling hills,
meandering rivers and streams, lot of fresh air, beautiful foliage, wildlife --
even some nifty caves to explore. Many people from the cities come here for
vacations.

   But some of us who live here fulltime are becoming increasingly aware of the
need to discover much more sustainable, local fuel supplies (and much better
means to use them). Some people have already received citations for overly
smoky, highly air-polluting wood burning stoves/heaters. Thus my participation
in WoodGas Group...

   Now I am curious in which bioregions various of you other folks live, and the
various sorts of local, more sustainable fuel options you are discovering. I
have to think that keen attention to the ways and rhythims of our respective
bioregions has everything to do with viability of the biomass burning strategies
we employ.

   Cheerio,

   Beth B.
   Kickapoo River Watershed (in the greater Mississippi Watershed)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John Fritz <johnfritz77@...> wrote:

   The area of the upper Midwest that was untouched by the last glaciation of
North Amercia...thus it didn't "drift" by the back and forth scouring action of
the glaciers: Southwest Wisconsin, Northwest Illinois, Northeast Iowa, and
Southeast Minnesota.

   John Fritz, NW Arkansas.


Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:05:35 -0800 (PST)
From: "Beth E. Baker"
Subject: waxed cardboard-->Biomassmobile!

Wow! What an AWESOME idea, D.G.! Somebody get this going ASAP, please!

Along with the Veggie Oil Bus (or whatever it's called) going around promoting
use of biodeisel, we could have a Biomassmobile, raising awareness about the
usefulness of all that "waste" (valuable, unrecognised fuel) that at present
goes into landfills. I would jump to get in on and support such an adventure.

Only one uninvited item in the punch bowl (so to speak, ahem) comes to mind;
would the Dept. Of Transportation give a woodgas fuelled vehicle user grief, as
I've heard they have done with those who manufacture and use their own biodeisel
to power vehicles, for not paying road taxes?

Cheerio,

Beth B.
Kickapoo River Watershed
Driftless Region

p.s. Dick Gallion, when we spoke on the phone the other day (great conversation,
touching on everything from waxed cardboard to unschooling and ducks), asked me
if I thought anybody at WoodGas knew what "Driftless Region" means. I replied
that I reckoned if anyone wanted to know, they'd ask. So -- please, feel free to
contact me, if you're curious.



---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: Sustainable fuel options:

Dear Beth  . . .  The Chinese Tallow Tree may grow in your area

Cordially - Joe Greene

And to the group . . .

A 'new' prolific oilseed feed stock source that grows very well in the
Southern U.S. and beyond. (actually a bit too well - it is currently
considered a plant pest.

The potential for this plant to be part of the biofuels future in the
U.S. is enormous...

Just read on . . .

Cordially - Joe Greene

****************************************************************
Production of Biodiesel from Lipids Extracted from Chinese Tallow Tree.,
S. Crymble1, B. Copeland1, M. Zappi1, R. Hernandes1, T. French1, B.
Baldwin1, D. Thomas2, 1Mississippi State University, USA, 2Mississippi
Chemical, USA.

Sapium sebiferum, commonly known as the Chinese Tallow tree, was
introduced into the United States from its native China as early as the
1700s. Unfortunately, the tree's nonnative characteristics allow it to
overrun and easily displace native foliage. Despite its attractive
appearance and valuable oil content, many regions have placed
restrictions on the distribution of the tree, as it has invaded areas
throughout the southeastern United States Chinese Tallow grows quickly
in a variety of soils. The fruit of the tree is a white seed that
contains approximately 40% extractable lipids. This extract can be used
to produce a number of products, including biodiesel. One hectare of
Chinese Tallow trees can produce approximately 12,500 kg of seed, which
could potentially yield 5,500 kg of oil. This amount of oil per hectare
is almost 15 times that of soy oil, which is the most commonly oil for
making biodiesel.The oil that is produced from the Chinese Tallow tree
has been found to contain high amounts of palmitic fatty acid, along
with some oleic, linoleic and linolinic fatty acids. These acids can be
base transesterified to form biodiesel. Making biodiesel from Chinese
Tallow oil would accomplish two major goals. The invasive Chinese Tallow
tree would become a useful, commercially viable crop. Also, the
biodiesel produced from Chinese Tallow would allow the United States to
decrease its dependence on imported energy by displacing foreign
petroleum with a domestic source of biodiesel that would not increase
the necessary crop acreage.

**************************************

The Chinese Tallow Tree - Sapium sebiferum - is in the same plant family
as Jatropha Curcas (EUPHORBIACEAE - Spurge family) and in the same
family as its Hawaiian 'First Cousin' - Aleurites moluccana - Candle Nut
- (http://waynesword.palomar.edu/tungoil1.htm  -- go down the page).

Current range in the U.S. - All of Texas, Arkansas, Louisana,
Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina and North
Carolina with a cousin in Hawaii.

For your reference . . .

http://tncweeds.ucdavis.edu/alert/alrtsapi.html

http://home.att.net/~larvalbugbio/chinesetrees.html


In the southern United States, S. sebiferum initiates growth in February, and
flowers from March through May. Fruits ripen from August
to November. Trees generally live 15-25 years with a potential maximum age of
100, though rootstocks may live much longer
(Jubinsky 1995).

S. sebiferum can begin flowering and fruiting when the plant is one meter tall
or approximately three years old (Jubinsky 1995). In the
southern U.S., catkins appear from March to June. S. sebiferum produces two
types of inflorescences that are composed of two different
types of seed clusters, commonly called  "grape" and "eagle claw." The "grape"
form, on which the female flowers mature first, produces
pedicelled pods, usually three seeds to a pod, spirally arranged around a
fruiting terminal branchlet. The "eagle claw" form, on which the
male flowers mature first, produces pedicelled pods arranged around two or more
short stems that branch from the terminal branchlet.

S. sebiferum plants have tremendous reproductive potential. They may
reach reproductive age in as little as three years, and in greenhouse
experiments, seedlings flowered in their first year of growth. A mature
tree may annually produce an average of 100,000 seeds that are dispersed
primarily by birds and water (Duke 1983; Jubinsky and Anderson 1996).
Under favorable conditions, a mature stand of trees can produce 4,500 kg
of seeds per hectare per year. Trees can remain productive for 100
years. Tree stumps have the ability to resprout, and roots fragments can
readily develop shoots (Conway 1).


Chemistry

The fatty acid composition of the oil is: caprylic, 1.50; capric, 1.00;
myristic, 0.97; palmitic, 2.80; stearic, 1.00; oleic, 9.40; linoleic,
53.40; and linolenic, 30.00%. A Hong Kong sample contained 26.8% oil,
with: capric, traces; palmitic, 7; stearic, 3; 2,4-decadienoic, 5;
oleic, 7; linoleic, 24; and linolenic, 54%. Stillingia oil is considered
superior to linseed oil in its drying and polymerizing properties,
probably due to the presence of 2,4-decadienoic acid. Seed meal, left
after the extraction of oil, possesses a high content of protein, and is
a valuable feed and fertilizer. It can be processed into a refined
flour, containing 75% protein, fit for human consumption. The amino acid
composition of the protein is as follows: arginine, 16.6; aspartic acid,
11.7; cistine, 1.3; glycine, 4.9; glutamic acid, 17.3; histidine, 2.9;
leucine, 7.4; lycine, 2.6; methionine, 1.6; tyrosine, 3.7; and valine,
7.8%. The vitamin-B content of the flour compares favorably with that of
wheat-flour. The flour, supplemented with lysine and methionine, is
reported to be superior to wheat-flour. Ethanol extraction of powdered
root bark yielded 0.1% phloracetophenone 2,4-dimethylether, and
reethanol extraction gave xanthoxylin (C10H12O4). The bark also contains
moretenone, moretenol and a new triterpene, 3-epimoretenol. Leaves
contain gallic and ellagic acids, isoquercitrin, and tannin (5.5%)
(C.S.I.R., 1948-1976).

Chinese tallow tree is cultivated for its seeds as a source of vegetable
tallow, a drying oil and protein food, and as an ornamental. Fruits
yield two types of fats: outer covering of seeds contain a solid fat
with low iodine value, known as Chinese Vegetable Tallow; kernels
produce a drying oil with high iodine value, called Stillingia Oil.

Tallow is used for manufacturing candles, a layer of wax being placed
over the tallow body to prevent too rapid burning; has excellent burning
quality, and gives an inodorous clear bright flame; also used for making
soap, cloth dressing and fuel. Pure tallow fat is known in commerce as
Pi-yu. Oil is used in making varnishes and native paints because of its
quick-drying properties, in machine oils and as a crude lamp oil. Pure
oil expressed from the inner part of the seeds is known in commerce as
Ting-yu. Oil cakes made from crushed seeds with tallow and oil together
is known as Mou-yu. Residual cake, after oil is expressed, is used as
manure, particularly for tobacco fields. Wood is white and
close-grained, suitable for carving and used for making blocks in
Chinese printing; also used for furniture making and incense. Chinese
prepare a black dye by boiling leaves in alum water. Tree grows rapidly,
developes an attractive crown, and, as leaves turn red in fall, is
cultivated as a shade or lawn tree about houses. It is used as a soil
binder along roads and canals.

leaves and fruit



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Great news.  Glad they are useful for something.
They are like weeds here in east TX. regards, Jack F
             ==============================
            Police wear handguns because they are
            a practical means of self defense.
         <http://www.gunsmith.fuselier.com> in East Texas

From: Joe Greene <joegreene@...>
To: woodGas@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, February 4, 2006, 6:13:14 PM
Subject: [WoodGas] Sustainable fuel options
RE: Sustainable fuel options:

Dear Beth  . . .  The Chinese Tallow Tree may grow in your area

Cordially - Joe Greene

And to the group . . .

A 'new' prolific oilseed feed stock source that grows very well in the
Southern U.S. and beyond. (actually a bit too well - it is currently
considered a plant pest.

The potential for this plant to be part of the biofuels future in the
U.S. is enormous...

Just read on . . .

Cordially - Joe Greene