At 06:23 PM 3/22/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>I can't help myself...
>In an dffort to not step on toes, start a rumble, or make accusations.
>I am not so unfamiliar with what goes on on these boards that I don't
>know folks motivations. All I can do is ask, and hope that is ok.
>I have come to my own conclussions about the arrival of PX and it is
>not a result of Nancy and the Zeta Folk. I am certian a lot of us
>have drawn a date that has found its way to be comfortable with us....
>Such an important issue..... I continue to hear both on the board and
>on such sites as Markes updates since the writing of his book.
>http://geocities.com/boraviti/blindsided_update/slices.htm  wich by
>the way I purchased and even got a copy for my Dad. Great reading and
>had a significant influence on my arrival date. But, why is it that
>we hear of people in possession of supposed photo's? And statements
>like those on Marks update page stateing basicly they will get back
>to us when they can get a photo? When you go to the trouble to visit
>an observitory why the heck would you not make arrangements for
>photos??? And more to the point, why would you come and visit these
>boards stateing that you are in possession of photo's but not
>comfortable with releasing them for fear of who may get the credit
>type issues??
>This is far to important of an issue concerning many peoples lives to
>hesitate with information for fear we might not get the proper credit.
>Who is going to know the difference in a few months anyway.
>Step up to the plate, but step up with a bat in your hand.
>
>Any comments......
>
>George I

As I have stated before, I will not release any images in my possession
unless Nancy clearly states that her object will be visible in the class of
telescopes that I own. This accomplishes two things. First, her admittance
that the object is visible and insures me that she will not hijack my images
for other purposes. Actually, there's nothing to see in my images that
doesn't belong there but that will be for Nancy to say. <vbg>

Michael L. Cunningham
So Cal SleeperS - 2001 Grand AM GT
e-mail bogeystar@...
web site http://home.earthlink.net/~bogeystar/

Remembering the World Trade Center Massacre
Sept. 11, 2001

Cry Havoc! ...and let slip the dogs of war!

Visit the LX50 Web Site and join in our Discussion Forum!

"There are two infinite things: universe and human stupidity.
And I'm not sure of the former".
Albert.

Hello there everybody! I was thinking about not replying seeing that the
mail was already loaded with thank you's for the in invitation... I guess
there's always place for another thank you.

THANKS!

I have been following the progress of the 12th planet via Zetatalk for a
few years now, but only lightly. I haven't been able to keep up to date on
the subject much and am very grateful for this email group because this is
one way I'm sure I'll stay up to date!

I'm not sure how far my participation will go in this group but I'm
interested in the subject and who's knows what'll happen?

Thanks again!

cheers
Alaric


>From: UFO-WatchTower@...
>Reply-To: ZetaAstro@yahoogroups.com
>To: ZetaAstro@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [ZetaAstro] (unknown)
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:11:42 -0700 (MST)
>
>I would also like to thank you for the invite!
>
>I just gave the book 12th Planet to a friend for some light reading
>while flying to visit family.
>
>I also have an outline for it that a friend put together.
>
>Its nice to meet you all :)
>
>Lucy,
>Website Producer
>http://UFOWatchTower.com
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com

hey m.c.

are you going to share your observations with us on what you have seen
at the coordinates given by ZT ?

i know on TTWatch you were waiting for the announcement from
nancy/zetas that smaller scopes could now view X, before you released
your findings.

are you still going to wait for that time to put forth your work ?
i am very curious on what you have seen or collected so far and wait
to hear your results, since i do not own a scope or pretend to know
how to even use one.

Hawk
"Trying is the first step towards failure." homer simpson

I can't help myself...
In an dffort to not step on toes, start a rumble, or make accusations.
I am not so unfamiliar with what goes on on these boards that I don't
know folks motivations. All I can do is ask, and hope that is ok.
I have come to my own conclussions about the arrival of PX and it is
not a result of Nancy and the Zeta Folk. I am certian a lot of us
have drawn a date that has found its way to be comfortable with us....
Such an important issue..... I continue to hear both on the board and
on such sites as Markes updates since the writing of his book.
http://geocities.com/boraviti/blindsided_update/slices.htm  wich by
the way I purchased and even got a copy for my Dad. Great reading and
had a significant influence on my arrival date. But, why is it that
we hear of people in possession of supposed photo's? And statements
like those on Marks update page stateing basicly they will get back
to us when they can get a photo? When you go to the trouble to visit
an observitory why the heck would you not make arrangements for
photos??? And more to the point, why would you come and visit these
boards stateing that you are in possession of photo's but not
comfortable with releasing them for fear of who may get the credit
type issues??
This is far to important of an issue concerning many peoples lives to
hesitate with information for fear we might not get the proper credit.
Who is going to know the difference in a few months anyway.
Step up to the plate, but step up with a bat in your hand.

Any comments......

George I

If everyone will sign this petition we may persuade Yahoo! to reconsider
their recent plan to charge for certain free services.

Thanks,

Tim

ps, Please pass this on to other list groups you may be a member of! ;-)

---


>  http://www.PetitionOnline.com/11213/petition.html
>
> Petition to request that Yahoo Inc reconsider their decision to charge
>
> fees for pop mail, groups, and homepages
>
> To:  Yahoo, Inc
>
> Dear Yahoo! Management,
>
> We, the undersigned, are signing this petition to protest the new
> Yahoo
> pricing structure in relation to several of the services most popular
> features such as Yahoo Groups, Yahoo Mail, and GeoCities. While we
> agree
> and understand that it is the primary goal of any company, including
> Yahoo, to expand their services and to make money, we feel that Yahoo
> is
> deliberately targeting users who have no choice or option in using
> Yahoo
> services. Yahoo Clubs, Yahoo Groups, Yahoo Mail, and GeoCities are all
>
> services that, once signed up for and established, are very difficult
> and extremely inconvenient to migrate from Yahoo to another service.
> We
> believe that Yahoo is deliberately targeting these users in total
> disregard to our needs and desires.
>
> We would like to strongly encourage the management of Yahoo, Inc to
> reconsider their pricing structure for these services and consider
> continuing the current structure of Yahoo as supported primarily by
> advertising.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> The Undersigned
>
>
> The Petition to request that Yahoo Inc reconsider their decision to
> charge fees for pop mail, groups, and homepages Petition to Yahoo, Inc
>
> was created by The users of Yahoo, Inc's various services and written
> by
> Anthony M. Saffer.  This petition is hosted here at
> www.PetitionOnline.com as a public service. There is no express or
> implied endorsement of this petition by Artifice, Inc. or our
> sponsors.
> The petition scripts are created by Mike Wheeler at Artifice, Inc.
> For
> Technical Support please use our simple Petition Help form.
>
> Send this to a friend
> Send Petition to a Friend - Start a Petition - Contributions - Privacy
> -
> Advertising - Comments and Suggestions
> PetitionOnline - DesignCommunity - 3D Designers - Gallery -
> Architecture
> - Scrapbook - 3D Developers - Games - Search
> http://www.PetitionOnline.com/11213/petition.html
> © 1999-2002 Artifice, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.
>

--
*So much to learn and so little time!*

DreamScape
http://timedwards.topcities.com/dreamscape.htm



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michael Cunningham said:
<Neither am I looking for a fan base. That's George's problem! LOL!>

For the record, neither am I.  I just got very tired of the bickering
and suppression underway on tt-watch, and just started this so that
ALL of us could have an open forum.  And it isn't intended to be the
Michael Cunningham fan club either, though my defense of Michael is
what triggered the Jan coup of tt-posse.

Anyway, we're off to a great start, folks, keep 'em coming!

At 06:29 AM 3/22/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>Michael, you said to yahbokravitz: "Man I tell ya... we'll have a
>lobster fest before the sea level rises"!
>Is that an admission that you believe the unbelievable?
>Judging my these first posts seems like you have some fans. I will
>accept an invitation to the "Michael Cunningham's views on Planet X
>and all else main stream" ;- group!

I believe in Global warming Rob. Not quite an admission to Planet X!
<vbg> Neither am I looking for a fan base. That's George's problem! LOL!

Michael L. Cunningham
So Cal SleeperS - 2001 Grand AM GT
e-mail bogeystar@...
web site http://home.earthlink.net/~bogeystar/

Remembering the World Trade Center Massacre
Sept. 11, 2001

Cry Havoc! ...and let slip the dogs of war!

Visit the LX50 Web Site and join in our Discussion Forum!

"There are two infinite things: universe and human stupidity.
And I'm not sure of the former".
Albert.

Hello group

I was just posting these links on another discussion forum:
http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk/phob-3.htm
http://www.zetatalk.com/theword/tworx218.htm
http://www.zetatalk.com/awaken/a70.htm

In my opinion these links include undeniable evidence of mysterious
events around Phobos and a logical explanation to these. The open
issue is that where do these folks in Phobos come from and the
explanation that they are originated from the Planet X as described
in ZetaTalk makes most sense to me. And this explanation requires
that Planet X exists!


Have a nice day!

Greetings
Olli T.

Hello, all, and thank you George for the invitation.

I don't post very often, never really sure about what to say and a bit
afraid of the reactions
of some hardliners. I am a pisces with libra uprising which puts me on the
perpetual teeter-totter
of questioning things. That teeter-totter stretches from coast to coast and
beyond, so I know there
are others with me walking the plank, so to speak.

I am neither a skeptic nor a staunch believer. I do have an expansive,
creative and open mind and sensitive
enough to 'feel' something is about to emerge. My body feels different. I am
vibrating like never before
and so I listen to this body and more subtle bodies like the astral and
mental. It is a time of
reckoning and attunement. September has been a pivotal moment in my life. I
have never felt so awake.


Having that said, I do have some doubts about the Zeta scenario and want to
get them off my chest.
It is a scenario that I have on the backburner, in case Nibiru does not
manifest in May 2003. It is eating
away at me and if I release it now, it could maybe alleviate the ambiguity
of my reasoning.

What if...
  Let us say the US gov wanted to create a front or fronts to desensitize the
population to conspiracy theories and the like (Y2K). You would find a
speaker (Nancy), have her come up with Nibiru's passage in 2003 instead of
2012 (I still think this date is more conducive to Earth Changes than 2003)
create enough hype and debunking to make her look a little weird, hype up
the anti-government conspiracies, bring in the ETs (we can all relate to the
Greys, now) and create an event like the WTC collapse where Americans having
experienced a tragedy in their own back yard will still be too numbed
(desensitized) to any of their government's political machinations abroad.
Comes May 2003 and no Nibiru. World becomes desensitized to large scale
predictions. Government/ETs move in with their agendas.

Then the other fish in my Pisces sign says:
What if..
What if it's all true. What if Jelaila Starr is right, that Nibiru IS
cloaked and that's why we can't see it.
What if Nancy is right and the 2012 Mayan Calendar/I Ching/TimeWave Zero
McKenna Theory timeline is misconstrued.

I started a poll a forum a few weeks ago, asking people if they had ever
heard of a possible upcoming pole shift.
One of the answers was:

So what if there is a poleshift. Then we all find ourselves in a different
timeline, a different paradigm.
Life goes on.

So does my teeter-tottering.
Tristan Perrier

PS ..
I am a French-Canadian translator. I helped Nancy on about 8 articles. Wrote
two for Jelaila Starr and
am now translating Noel Huntley`s website. As a translator, one has to read
every word carefully and make the
extra effort to meld with the author's mindset in order to convey the
message with greater accuracy. I also studied
channelling for one year which puts me in a position to better understand
the mechanics of information gathering.
I had some problems with Nancy, both as a person and with her material,
which I won't go into right now.
But she might be right.

May truth find its moment of glory.

Hey all and thanks for the invite George.

I am here because I also want to be sure of Planet X and I want to
read all arguements for AND against so I can make an informed
decision on Planet X. I also fully support George's comment:
"Skepticism and critical thinking should be
encouraged, not suppressed"
and I am glad you started this group and I've joined for moral
support.

Michael, you said to yahbokravitz: "Man I tell ya... we'll have a
lobster fest before the sea level rises"!
Is that an admission that you believe the unbelievable?
Judging my these first posts seems like you have some fans. I will
accept an invitation to the "Michael Cunningham's views on Planet X
and all else main stream" ;- group!

I look forward to READING the posts in an openminded and un-
dictatorial forum.


Rob

Hey thanks for the invitation to join!

Exciting to see this group develop and the cordiality
already evident in viewpoints that are sure to
disagree!

I am not much of an astronomer, but find the mind
itself wildly interesting.  The complexities of
evaluating 'channeled' information make for me some of
the most interactive reading I know of.  In the old
days I used to read science fiction.  These days my
passion is the dubious, that body of data not clearly
categorized as fiction or fact.  The kick I get is
that of wrestling with my own mind and sensory
awareness.  Maybe like shadowboxing, or wrestling with
one's own demons perhaps, the internal struggles I go
through are alternately humbling and euphoric.

The most valuable result is not for me the most
obvious though.  I learned a lot of science from
reading science fiction as a boy.  Without zetatalk I
don't really think I would be growing worms, mushrooms
or pondering raising spirulina or chlorella.  Nor
would I be planning to learn to build cob walled
dwellings.  Pole shift or no, these activities have
and promise to be a lot of fun.  First hand fun at
that, as opposed to watching someone else have fun on
television for example.

I am not sure I want to see a debate on the veracity
of the zetatalk channel though.  I fear it, but find
my self dancing around the issue.  Yet here I am
mentioning it.  As someone who has been pondering
channeled stuff for over 30 years I think I have
gotten pretty good at picking up clues.

How could we ever discuss this particular topic
without getting personal about it?  Personal and
perhaps ugly?  That is a puzzle I am thinking about.

If you have ever read Adolf Guggenbohl-Craig's book
titled "Power in the Helping Professions", I might
suggest that its theme of the inherent arrogance of
presuming what is appropriate for another human being,
and the nearly insurmountable challenges to fairness
and basic human kindness that arise as a result.
Adolf very effectively parallels modern psychotherapy
with the Spanish Inquisition.  As he says, the most
cruel of all humanities sins have been done in the
name of helping each other.

Perhaps we should just stick to the astronomical
details, which are far more objectively evaluated.

I am getting nervous now.

Cheers!

Steve

=====
# Steve Veeneman - svnmn@...
# Secretly imagine that you are smarter than you are.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

At 02:27 AM 3/22/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>  Michael, glad to have you here.  I was so sick and tired of the
>lynchings going on at TT.  You and others...it's sad.  This subject
>requires an open mind not blind faith.  I look forward to hearing
>your thoughts again.  I have been to your website, and must say I am
>jealous.  I have been an amature astronomer for a number of years and
>I haven't had time to really go out and ply the trade.
>  Skepticism is necessary here and I would like to give some thoughts.

Nice to be here and to at least offer the main stream observations without
the insults.

>> Let me try to get a thread started here, about the supposed images
>of
>> Nibiru.  I have studied those images Nancy cites, and I gotta tell
>you, I
>> don't see it.  Do others?  And astro guys, what about Nancy's
>charges of
>> reference images being doctored?  Any comments out there?
>
>I looked at the images and no I don't think they are of PlanetX.  To
>be honest, I don't place much faith in information that is
>channeled.  The reason for that is my faith.  That is another post
>though for another group. I have done some research on the images,
>and read the various posts that offered comment on them,(before such
>comments became a crime).  I think most people came to the same
>conclusion.   The pictures are not of Planet X.
> Furthermore, I have read that supposedly, the planet should be
>viewable by now.  At least in medium sized 'scopes.  I own a 10"
>scope (even if I haven't had time to use it lately) and wonder if it
>should be viewable with it.  On the nights when I have been able to
>get out, I haven't seen anything that would suggest the planet's
>existance.  Michael, have you or anyone on this list had any luck?

As I have stated before, my images shall remain out of the public eye
until as such times Nancy announces her planet should be visible. I
also will not have them hijacked by Nancy as she has done so with
other images most recently.

I can say this, Planet X is not in any of the images Nancy or Steve
Havas has proclaimed to have captured her elusive object. Steve has
never processed a FITS image in his life until now and suddenly he
is an expert on imaging analysis. Kahuna gave a correct analysis of
the images and stated Nancy had mistaken a artifact or faint field star
as her object. Steve also claims the object has moved slightly in a
comparison of the two images taken fifty years apart. The object or
field star could have very well moved a few arc seconds in that time
period. It's called "proper motion" as all stars are moving and over a
long period of time will show slight movement when compared with
older images. In this particular case, fifty years only shows a few
arc seconds movement. If it were Planet X, it wouldn't have been in
the fifty year old image.

Another distressing fact is the magnitude discrepancy which Nancy
has tried to spin doctor away by claiming atmospheric refraction of
red light. She has yet to address this issue or the issue with three
visual sightings (Steve Havas included). All three visual sighting
failed to filter as per Nancy's instructions and yet an object was
claimed to have been seen at the reported 11th magnitude. Yet the
CCD images so proudly claimed to reveal Planet X shows the claimed
object at less than 20th magnitude, 10,000 times fainter than the
visual sightings. We deal with atmospheric extinction starting at about
20 degrees above the horizon. This will cause a small reduction in
magnitudes due to the thicker atmosphere and is usually only a tenth
of a magnitude. Atmospheric refraction starts at about 15 degrees or
less and will occur at all the wave lengths of light but will only amount
to a few arc seconds of displacement.

My own images cannot go to the 20th magnitude due to the size of
my scope (10 inches in diameter). However, I can plainly image objects
at 16.5 magnitude from the Los Angeles basin. Pluto is an easy object
to image at 13.7 current magnitude so if any object claimed to be 11th
magnitude should appear, you'd have 100,000 amateur astronomers in
the USA alone imaging and observing it not to mention the 150,000
other amateurs world wide! NASA would do well to silence all of us! LOL!

As of to date, I have failed to detect either visually or by CCD imaging
any object at Nancy's last known coordinates that didn't belong there.
If I did observe an object there I'd be extreme famous and popular right
now!


Michael L. Cunningham
So Cal SleeperS - 2001 Grand Am GT
e-mail bogeystar@...
web site http://home.earthlink.net/~bogeystar/

Remembering the World Trade Center Massacre
Sept. 11, 2001

Cry Havoc! ...and let slip the dogs of war!

Visit the LX50 Web Site and join in our Discussion Forum!

"There are two infinite things: universe and human stupidity.
And I'm not sure of the former".
Albert.

George and Group,
  First of all, thank you for the invite.  I realize that in TT I
mostly stayed in the backgroud, but I am a full time programmer with
a new baby due in Sept.  Kind of keeps me busy as you can guess.
  I was about to unsubscribe from TT when you posted the message about
your group and decided to accept the invite, and hang around TT just
in case any information might be posted.  I also subscribe to Diane's
group (prep2003).  If this is real, then any and all information will
be needed.
   Michael, glad to have you here.  I was so sick and tired of the
lynchings going on at TT.  You and others...it's sad.  This subject
requires an open mind not blind faith.  I look forward to hearing
your thoughts again.  I have been to your website, and must say I am
jealous.  I have been an amature astronomer for a number of years and
I haven't had time to really go out and ply the trade.
   Skepticism is necessary here and I would like to give some thoughts.

> Let me try to get a thread started here, about the supposed images
of
> Nibiru.  I have studied those images Nancy cites, and I gotta tell
you, I
> don't see it.  Do others?  And astro guys, what about Nancy's
charges of
> reference images being doctored?  Any comments out there?

I looked at the images and no I don't think they are of PlanetX.  To
be honest, I don't place much faith in information that is
channeled.  The reason for that is my faith.  That is another post
though for another group. I have done some research on the images,
and read the various posts that offered comment on them,(before such
comments became a crime).  I think most people came to the same
conclusion.   The pictures are not of Planet X.
  Furthermore, I have read that supposedly, the planet should be
viewable by now.  At least in medium sized 'scopes.  I own a 10"
scope (even if I haven't had time to use it lately) and wonder if it
should be viewable with it.  On the nights when I have been able to
get out, I haven't seen anything that would suggest the planet's
existance.  Michael, have you or anyone on this list had any luck?

Anyway, I need to leave for now.  Again, it's good to be on a list
where skepticism is allowed.
  Later
  Galen

http://www.geocities.com/transition7/planetX


This page offers perspectives from Zecharia Sitchin,
Mark Hazelwood. Lady Kajina, of the "Cities of Light".
Jelaila Starr, representative of the "Nibiruan
Council". And Rev. Terry Ana Robinson, "The
Declaration of Independence of the Angelic Human
Race". Included are several links, both pro and con.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

Wow, 65 members already, and the day is yet young!  Thanks for your great
response, everyone.  I hope we can all find interesting and fruitful
discussion here.

As a suggestion of one way to use this list, if you are one of those
individuals who is being moderated or banned from tt-watch, go ahead and
post your response here.  At least then the openminded will see it!

As I reread my earlier postings, I realize that I may come across as harsher
and stricter than I wanted.  I ENCOURAGE all points of view, I'm just trying
to stay on what I consider that key central theme:  does Nibiru exist, and
is it incoming in the next 14 months?  Part of what has frustrated me with
tt-watch and ZetaTalk is all the time spent on irrelevant or marginally
relevant topics: JFK Jr was assassinated, 9/11 was an attack on J.P.Morgan,
etc, etc.

Let me try to get a thread started here, about the supposed images of
Nibiru.  I have studied those images Nancy cites, and I gotta tell you, I
don't see it.  Do others?  And astro guys, what about Nancy's charges of
reference images being doctored?  Any comments out there?


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael L Cunningham [ mailto:bogeystar@...
<mailto:bogeystar@...> ]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:07 AM
To: ZetaAstro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ZetaAstro] Welcome to Michael Cunningham!


  << Actually the vast majority on the tt lists believe with an
open mind and would hear the debate from both sides.
Since the moderation has gotten stricter on what can be
posted, what construes "contributions", and who is a
disrupter, that object voice has been silenced. Any post
by those not agreeing with the strict party line would be
dismissed as a disrupter.

Hopefully here we can have an open dialog without the
labels being attached.

People get confused as to what constitutes a contribution.
Posting news articles is fine but unless the poster can
demonstrate how it ties in with his point of view and cite
additional historical examples, all he would be doing is
picking and choosing articles to fulfill his personal agenda.

Using the scientific method, one should be able to
demonstrate historical observations of the events to which
they are referring which in turn will greatly improve the
discussion of the facts. Rather than just cite one event
(Floods in Tennessee) as proof of the effects of a pole
shift, a little research on the past floods covering a time
span and a broader area would carry much more weight.

I will not try and persuade anyone here to sway what you
think about Planet X, pole shifts, etc. What I will try to do
is provide enough information based on my experiences
to allow you to make up your own minds.

I'll be posting here very shortly about the astronomical
effects and observations over the past year. >>

This is EXACTLY the sort of thing that I have in mind for this list.  To
emphasize what I've said earlier, the weather news postings are fine and
dandy for tt-watch, but I would hope that we would have a bit more than that
here.  A well reasoned argument for the mechanism by which Nibiru causes
that unusual weather would actually be welcome here, as that could then be
DIRECT evidence for the planet.  A simple "look, the Zetas said there would
be weird weather, and here it is, therefore they were right" does NOT cut it
with me; the causal relationship is not established.

I eagerly await your reports on your observations, Michael.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 07:19 AM 3/21/2002 -0800, you wrote:

>--- LauraMacd@... wrote:
> >
> > We are happy to have you here, Michael.
> >
>----------
>
>ditto here, mike!  i don't know if you were surprised
>to find that there was a small contingent of
>supporters on the tt list, but there was.  and, i
>believe that we are opened-minded.  after all, the
>zeta's are purported to be a scientific race of
>beings.  why then wouldn't we, as observers, not
>insist that science be instrumental in verifying their
>claims.  that was always such a contradiction to me.
>i am still looking for answers.
>kevin

Actually the vast majority on the tt lists believe with an
open mind and would hear the debate from both sides.
Since the moderation has gotten stricter on what can be
posted, what construes "contributions", and who is a
disrupter, that object voice has been silenced. Any post
by those not agreeing with the strict party line would be
dismissed as a disrupter.

Hopefully here we can have an open dialog without the
labels being attached.

People get confused as to what constitutes a contribution.
Posting news articles is fine but unless the poster can
demonstrate how it ties in with his point of view and cite
additional historical examples, all he would be doing is
picking and choosing articles to fulfill his personal agenda.

Using the scientific method, one should be able to
demonstrate historical observations of the events to which
they are referring which in turn will greatly improve the
discussion of the facts. Rather than just cite one event
(Floods in Tennessee) as proof of the effects of a pole
shift, a little research on the past floods covering a time
span and a broader area would carry much more weight.

I will not try and persuade anyone here to sway what you
think about Planet X, pole shifts, etc. What I will try to do
is provide enough information based on my experiences
to allow you to make up your own minds.

I'll be posting here very shortly about the astronomical
effects and observations over the past year.


Michael L. Cunningham
So Cal SleeperS - 2001 Grand AM GT
e-mail bogeystar@...
web site http://home.earthlink.net/~bogeystar/

Remembering the World Trade Center Massacre
Sept. 11, 2001

Cry Havoc! ...and let slip the dogs of war!

Visit the LX50 Web Site and join in our Discussion Forum!

"There are two infinite things: universe and human stupidity.
And I'm not sure of the former".
Albert.

--- LauraMacd@... wrote:
>
> We are happy to have you here, Michael.
>
----------

ditto here, mike!  i don't know if you were surprised
to find that there was a small contingent of
supporters on the tt list, but there was.  and, i
believe that we are opened-minded.  after all, the
zeta's are purported to be a scientific race of
beings.  why then wouldn't we, as observers, not
insist that science be instrumental in verifying their
claims.  that was always such a contradiction to me.
i am still looking for answers.
kevin

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

Hi,

Thanks for the invitation.  I've been working on the Planet X problem for
quite a while, and I should be working on it now instead of composing this
post.  So at the risk of repeating myself to any reader who follows my
work, allow me to just copy a recent post I made to the PX2003_Debate list
plus my own astro-revelation list, followed by a couple of my replies
following the same thread.  The three messages are separated by
"=============="

I've read Nancy's book, and while I agree with much in it, I also disagree
with many details.  I'm really not interested in debating her work.  But if
anybody wants to discuss my work, I will be happy to oblige.

Peace,
Glen

==========================================
Dear Rusatossa,

Jim's reply about Nancy Leider of Zetatalk being first to declare 2003 as a
target date is correct as far as I know.

I have my own reasons for thinking that Planet X exists and that it will
arrive in the inner solar system in 2003, and they are independent of
Zetatalk.

I approach the problem from two directions.  First, I'm trying to identify
the "unmodeled force" that has been perturbing the planets for at least 20
years by comparing numerically integrated 9-planet orbits to the official
JPL ephemerides.  That is a work in progress.  If it succeeds, it should
provide an orbit for Planet X.  (Actually, I already have a tentative orbit
for Planet X based on what I think its mission is; see below.  But this
numerical orbit integration work should confirm that orbit.)

Second, I consider my hypothesis that Immanuel Velikovsky's _Worlds in
Collision_ (Doubleday 1950) Exodus scenario will recur in reversed time
sequence.  In brief, Velikovsky claims from studying ancient texts from
many cultures that Venus was ejected by Jupiter as a giant comet.  Venus
nearly collided with Mars at least once and with Earth twice during the
Exodus, and afterward it just settled into its present orbit.  Between
those two apparitions at Earth, six days apart, Venus appeared to follow
or "fly formation with" the Earth.

"Because of the proximity of the earth, the comet left its own orbit and
for a while followed the orbit of the earth.  The great ball of the comet
retreated, then again approached the earth, shrouded in a dark column of
gasses which looked like a pillar of smoke during the day and of fire at
night, and the earth once more passed through the atmosphere of the comet,
this time at its neck.  This stage was accompanied by violent and incessant
electrical discharges between the atmosphere of the tail and the
terrestrial atmosphere.  There was an interval of about six days between
these two close approaches.  Emerging from the gases of the comet, the
earth seems to have changed the direction of its rotation, and the pillar
of smoke moved to the opposite horizon. (Cf. Exodus 14:19).  The column
looked like a gigantic moving serpent." [_Worlds in Collision_ pages
91-92.]

Earth also nearly collided with Mars according to Velikovsky.

In our time (which I hypothesize flows in the opposite direction of the
cosmic time flow during the Exodus), Venus would be minding its own
business in its present orbit, when (I think on May 7, 2003) it would
suddenly brighten, sprout a huge coma and tail, swing around the Sun and
nearly collide with Earth twice and Mars at least once before eventually
being absorbed by Jupiter.

That could only happen if Planet X collides with Venus so as to knock it
out of its present orbit.  That collision would be so violent, I believe,
that it would turn Venus inside-out.

Any competent theorist will tell you that an actual collision between
planets is impossible.  (At least if both bodies have direct orbits such
collisions are impossible because they always swing around their common
center of gravity as they pass each other.  However, since Planet X will
have a retrograde orbit, then I think a collision with Venus is possible if
unlikely.)  But I suggest that if Venus ejected its core just before the
Exodus, then it will be absorbing its core this time, so from that aspect,
Planet X can't miss Venus.  Planet X is the escaped core of Venus,
according to my hypothesis, and it is now returning home.  In our present
time frame, Venus will absorb Planet X and immediately change into an
Earth-crossing orbit.

There is an analog to this in particle physics.  It is called pair
production.  A high-energy photon can be transformed into an electron and a
positron.  A positron is just an electron moving in negative time.  It is a
particle of anti-matter.  By the same token, an electron and a positron can
collide and annihilate each other, converting their combined energies into
a gamma ray photon.  I suspect that Planet X has negative mass now, and
that may be why we can't see it.

I presently think that Planet X will nearly collide with Venus on March 30,
2003 on its inbound leg (passing slightly North of Venus), then after
swinging around the Sun in a very close perihelion (about 0.05 AU) on April
18, 2003, it will actually collide with Venus on or about May 7, 2003,
turning Venus inside-out.  At this point I must invoke an unknown and
hypothetical physical theory that I invented to make all this work.
Turning Venus inside-out will reverse the flow of time for Venus, and it
will retrace the orbit that Planet X had before then (and has now) only
moving backwards with respect to its present motion.  That is, before the
collision, Planet X will have a retrograde orbit, and afterward,
Venus/Planet X will have a direct orbit.  It would be as if Planet X just
bounced off of Venus like a billiard ball against the rail, except that
what we now know as Venus would become the core, and Planet X would become
the shell of the new "Comet Venus".  Since its time flow will have been
reversed, I dare say that it will have negative gravity.  The first near
collision with Earth would then occur on July 4, 2003, and the second one
on July 10.

This behavior of Comet Venus following the Earth for six days between
apparitions makes sense in my scenario only if Venus has negative gravity
after it absorbs Planet X.  That's because Venus can't follow the Earth
unless it passes behind the Earth, and if it passes behind the Earth, it
can't speed Earth's orbit velocity in the slingshot maneuver unless Venus
has negative gravity.  Earth can't acquire a Mars-crossing orbit unless the
Venus encounters speed it up.

This negative gravity for Venus is a new idea for me.  I had previously
thought that during Earth's encounter with Planet X, it would pass "under"
the Earth's South Pole.  Actually, I had envisioned that Earth's spin axis
would tilt 90º so that the South Pole would point forward in the direction
of Earth's motion around the Sun.  That way, Planet X could pass in front
of Earth (in its orbit plane), which if it had positive gravity, would be
the only way it could increase Earth's orbital velocity.  In that case,
Earth's southern hemisphere would face Planet X as it crossed in front of
Earth's bow.  That would decrease the gravity in the southern hemisphere
and increase it in the northern hemisphere, causing the great hurricane to
blow from north to south.  It would also cause the northern hemisphere to
get very hot and the southern hemisphere to get very cold.  The low
barometric pressure would cause great snow storms in the southern
hemisphere.

But now, with Comet Venus having negative gravity and passing behind the
Earth's stern in the orbit plane, it would pass "above" the Earth's
northern hemisphere, assuming the spin axis tilts 90º as before with the
South Pole pointing in the direction of Earth's motion around the Sun.
Because the force of gravity from Comet Venus would be a repulsion instead
of an attraction, then gravity would still increase in Earth's northern
hemisphere and decrease in its southern hemisphere, and the hurricane wind
would still blow from north to south, and the north would still get hot
while the south got cold.

Having two encounters with Comet Venus relaxes the constraint on the
slingshot maneuver because there would be two of them, and each one would
need to be only half as powerful.  The goal is to give the Earth an
increase in its orbit velocity by 10.4% to give it a Mars-crossing orbit.
That means that each Comet Venus slingshot would need to boost Earth's
orbital velocity by only 5.2%.

Now, regarding 2003 as the year for the arrival of Planet X into the inner
solar system.  Everything I have seen so far points to the dates I
mentioned above.  That is, they are consistent with what is possible with
celestial mechanics to perform the game of cosmic billiards that I
envision.  If you neglect Venus, then the three planets Earth, Mars, and
Jupiter must have the same angular configurations relative to the stars and
to each other.  The question would be if 2003 gives a workable
configuration for those three planets, when will the next similar
configuration occur?

It is impossible for each of three planets to ever have exactly an integral
number of orbit revolutions for the same time span, so we can speak in
terms of an error that would be the fractional part of the actual number of
revolutions.  This fraction of an orbit can also be expressed as a
heliocentric longitude difference by multiplying it times 360º per
revolution.  In this case the shortest time span until the next similar
configuration would be 47 Earth years (47/1.88075 = 24.99 Martian years;
47/11.85678 = 3.964 Jovian years).  So, the next window of opportunity
would be in the spring/summer of 2050.  The Jovian heliocentric longitude
error in this case is 4 - 3.964 = 0.036 Jovian years or 13º of longitude.
If you could only tolerate a 9º error, you would have to wait 190 years.
For a 5º error, you would have to wait 237 years.  For a 1º error, you
would have to wait 3391 years.  I think the 13º error is tolerable, so 47
years is the interval until the next opportunity for those three planets.

However, when you look at Venus, you find that its error would be 145º on
July 4, 2050 and 54º on July 4, 2193, neither of which would be acceptable.
My orbit viewer does not go past 2200, so I couldn't find out what the
error in the heliocentric longitude of Venus would be in 2240 or 5394
without considerable effort.  But who really cares?

The bottom line is that if the four planets Venus, Earth, Mars, and Jupiter
must be in the same configuration that they will be on July 4, 2003, then
there will not be another opportunity for this scenario to occur within the
next 200 years or longer.

The year 2003 also meets my criterion of a close Earth-Mars conjunction.
It's the best time in the reasonably near future for Earth to be launched
into a Mars-crossing orbit.

You can read my article that tells why July 4, 2003 is a preferred date.
See http://home1.gte.net/res00bfl/Smiting_Sun&Moon.htm
There is a broken link in that article, and I explain it here.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astro-revelation/message/991

I know this scenario seems complicated, but I have not even told you how
Mars will circularize Earth's orbit at around 1.5 AU with two or three
slingshot events and how Venus will circularize Mars's orbit with another
slingshot event before it goes to Jupiter to become absorbed by Jupiter.
But if it happens as I envision it, then I dare say that everybody will
concede that it did not happen by chance.

This mission was planned by God.  And the purpose is twofold.  The first
purpose is to move Earth into Mars's present orbit and to move Mars into
Venus's present orbit and to Terraform it.  Mars will also have two very
close encounters with the Sun, and all of that will help warm Mars up and
make it inhabitable.  And why is that necessary?  I can only guess that the
Sun will experience a sudden discrete increase in its radiant energy
output, so Earth needs to move its orbit farther out again.

The Bible says that the Kingdom of God will last 1000 years.  By then we
should have the technology to migrate the entire population to Mars, the
"new earth" where there is no sea [Rev. 21:1].  There will also be a new
heaven.  Obviously the inner solar system will have been re-arranged, but
also the stars will look different.  This will be because Earth will have
turned its atoms inside out, as it were, converting them from left-handed
as they are now to right-handed.  Also Earth will have experienced a
physical blueshift.  This will make all the stars appear to be redshifted.
Evidently the Sun is a very long period variable star, but the variations
are not continuous; they are discrete.

This periodic orbit expansion has happened before.  We know this because of
the ages of the Biblical patriarchs: Adam, Noah, Methuselah, etc.  They
lived a large number of years because Earth used to orbit much closer to
the Sun in those days, and the length of a year was much shorter.  After
Earth moves out to the orbit of Mars, the number of days in a year will
increase by 88%.  The length of a day will not change.

The second purpose of this scenario is to provide the physical means to
implement Judgment Day.  For my ideas about that, see
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astro-revelation/message/965

Peace,
Glen

----- Original Message -----
From: "rusatossa" <rusatossa@...>
To: <PX2003_Debate@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 10:22 PM
Subject: [PX2003_Debate] QUESTION ??

>
>
> I have a question:
>
> WHY is 2003 a target date and WHO first declared
> it to be a target date ??
>
> THANKS !

=====================================================

----- Original Message -----
From: "glenwdeen" <glen.deen@...>
To: <PX2003_Debate@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 4:25 PM
Subject: [PX2003_Debate] Re: Digest Number 157


--- In PX2003_Debate@y..., Bob Avery <rwavery@j...> wrote:
> Glen,
>
> >Obviously the inner solar system will have been re-arranged,
> >but also the stars will look different.  This will be because
> >Earth will have turned its atoms inside out, as it were,
> >converting them from left-handed as they are now to right-handed.
>
> What law of chemistry or physics will produce that trick?  Why do
> you expect it?

Those are a very good questions.  This is an example of my own
intuition at work.  We know that antimatter particles are just like
matter particles that move backward in time.  We also know that the
signs of the electric charges of electrons and protons are the
opposite of their corresponding particles, positrons and anti-
protons.  We know that the nuclei of atoms have positive charges and
are much more massive than their electron shells that have
negative charges.  We also know that matter particles are left-
handed.  This is all in the physics textbooks.  Are you with me so
far or do I need to find references?

Well, I hypothesize that there are two universes, and time runs
backwards in the other one.  That means to me that if our atoms are
left-handed, then the atoms in the other universe are right-handed.

I hypothesize that if you could somehow turn an atom inside-out, it
would have positrons orbiting a nucleus of anti-protons and neutrons
(assuming they are their own anti-particle).  That is, you would have
an atom of antimatter in which time runs backwards.

The following is confusing even to me, and I don't guarantee I have
it right even yet because I have changed my mind about it so many
times.

I think the Earth will shift its polar axis on Judgment Day by about
90º as a result of the near collision with Comet Venus (which
absorbed Planet X and turned inside-out).  Some will argue that
magnetic forces will produce the torque to shift the polar axis.  I
think it will be the ether flow, but G. F. FitzGerald said in 1878
that "magnetism is treated as a flow of ether."  So maybe we are both
right.  In any case, I think that as soon as Comet Venus breaks
inside Earth's magnetosphere, Earth's North spin axis pole will
gently swing towards Venus and continue pointing towards it as it
crosses behind Earth's stern in its orbit plane.  During this
maneuver, the whole Earth (mantle, crust, oceans, air) would rotate
as a rigid body; there wouldn't be any "slippage".  Since Earth's
North Pole would be pointing towards Planet X, anyone in Greenland
would see it overhead and feel heavier since it would be "over their
heads" and pushing down on them with its force of repulsion (Venus
will have negative gravity).  People in Antarctica would feel its
gravity making them lighter, because it would be pushing on them
from "under their feet."  This gravity gradient will produce a
barometric pressure gradient which will produce the high winds
blowing from north to south.

I've wondered how Earth's rotation could be possibly be halted and
reversed.  The rapture, or dividing the sheep from the goats can
evidently only occur at the moment when Earth's rotation is
temporarily stopped.  Only Comet Venus/Planet X can do this, so it
must have its spin axis pointing towards Earth as it crosses Earth's
orbit, it must be rotating in the opposite direction, and Earth's
spin axis must be pointing towards Venus.  Furthermore, Venus must
have a high rate of spin.  We know that Venus presently has almost no
spin, so the collision with Planet X will evidently spin it up as
much as necessary.  As Comet Venus passes behind the Earth ("above"
our North Pole), their spin axes must become co-linear.  Venus must
pass behind the Earth so that Earth will speed up (because of the
repulsion force), allowing Earth to rendezvous with Mars later, and
this will also allow Venus to fly formation with Earth for six days
outside Earth's orbit path and cross behind Earth again as it moves
inside Earth's orbit path towards the Sun.

I must invoke my ideas about Earth's structure to explain this.  I
believe that Earth is a hollow shell, and its core is normally
centered inside the cavity (the "Bottomless Pit").  The only
explanation for that picture that satisfies me is if the core and the
shell experience a mutual repulsion force, and I think that makes
sense if time runs backwards in the core (I guess we could say it is
made of anti-matter).  Thus a free particle inside the cavity
would "fall upwards" towards the ceiling of the cavity, which is the
inner surface of the shell.

Venus will evidently couple more tightly to Earth's core than to its
shell.  The idea that occurs to me is that somehow the passage of
Venus would cause Earth's core to change the orientation of its spin
axis.  But since the core and the shell are a "couple", you can't
just change the core's spin axis alone.  The spin axes of both the
shell and the core must change if one changes.  The idea that occurs
to me is that if somehow the core and the shell shifted their spin
axes such that they were rotating in opposite directions (in our time
frame), maybe they would brake each other (without touching, of
course).  There must be a very intense ether current between them
(magnetic flux if you prefer), and so they should be able to torque
each other to a stop.  Alternatively, it may be that Earth and Venus
brake each other to the point where Earth temporarily stops rotating.

That sounds reasonable, except that once it stopped, what would start
Earth rotating again?  Evidently, Venus will do that when it crosses
behind Earth again on its way towards the Sun.

I suspect that once Earth's rotation has stopped, it can begin
rotating in either direction.  My hypothesis is that if it can go
either way, then it will go both ways.  That would be the physical
mechanism for the rapture.

Here is where I have to invoke the many histories (or many worlds)
hypothesis of quantum mechanics.  In one history, the goat world, the
flow of cosmic time is reversed. (Or, more likely, this world in
which time flows backwards already exists, and the goats just
transfer their bodies into it.)  This permits the polar axis of their
Earth to return to "its upright position" relative to the stars while
the direction of rotation reverses and the direction of ether flow
(outward) remain as it is now.  The atom handedness determines the
direction of ether flow.  Ether flows out of left-handed worlds and
in to right-handed worlds.  Their atoms would still be left-handed,
and the ether would still flow outwards.  If you hold your left hand
with its thumb down and fingers curled, they point CCW.  This is the
present direction of Earth's rotation.  If you now rotate your wrist
so that your thumb points up (to reverse the direction of cosmic time
flow), your fingers curl CW.  So, the goat world's rotation reverses
relative to the rest of the solar system because of their axis
inversion, but they are still left-handed.  If Earth's rotation
becomes CW, its orbit direction must also become CW because I
hypothesize that a planet's spin must always be in the same direction
as its orbit.  The only way for that to happen is for cosmic time to
reverse for the goat world.  Since cosmic time reversed for them,
they would find that not only Earth, but also all the other planets
were orbiting the Sun in a clockwise direction (orbits are presently
counter-clockwise).  For them, the North Star would still be in the
geographic north, but the Sun would rise in the West and set in the
East.

In the other history, the sheep world, the direction of ether flow
would be changed from outward to inward, and this would be
accomplished by the flipping all the atoms in the world from left-
handed to right-handed and also inverting their spins.  I have no
idea how this can be done.  But the result would be that Earth would
experience a polar axis inversion and a spin direction reversal from
their viewpoint, but no spin reversal from the cosmic viewpoint.  In
the sheep world, the Sun would rise in the West and set in the East
relative to old landmarks, but the Earth and all the planets would
continue orbiting the Sun in a counter-clockwise direction, relative
to the stars, and they would continue to spin about their axes in a
counter-clockwise direction, relative to the stars.  But relative to
Earth's own geographic frame, all planets would seem to orbit the Sun
and spin in a clockwise fashion because of the axis inversion.  The
sheep would find that the celestial sphere had turned upside down.

So, to review, both worlds would experience a 90º polar axis shift
and a slowing of rotation to a stop.  After a pause with no rotation,
the goat world would reverse the direction of its time flow, meaning
that it would retrace its steps.  Its polar axis would return to its
normal position.  But because of the time flow reversal, its rotation
would become clockwise, as would its orbit direction and that of all
the other planets.

The sheep world would not reverse the direction of its time flow, but
it would continue rotating its polar axis until it reached a 180º
(approximately) axis inversion.  The Sun would rise in the West and
setting in the East relative to their customary landmarks in both
worlds.  For the sheep word, that is because when you turn the
celestial sphere upside down, east and west reverse.  From the
viewpoint of the stars, the Sun would continue to rise in the East
and set in the West for the sheep world.

Both worlds pause at 90º with zero rotation while you decide which
path to take.  After the pause the goat world retraces its path that
brought it to the pause.  It continues to be left-handed but
experiences a reversal of cosmic time flow.  This means that the
goats would repeat the cosmic history we have experienced but in
reverse sequence.  For example, 9 years later, they would observe
Jupiter ejecting Comet Shoemaker Levy 9 into space.  After the pause,
the sheep world would experience another encounter with Venus and
continue on its odyssey to rendezvous with Mars.

I'm sure you will have no doubt as to which world you find yourself
in after the Judgment.  But if sky did not change, you are a goat,
and if the celestial sphere turned upside-down, you are a sheep.

> >Also Earth will have experienced a physical blueshift.
>
> How can this happen?

See my paper http://home1.gte.net/res00bfl/Redshift_Physics.htm
entitled "The Physics of an Episodic Quantized Redshift".

>
> >We know this because of
> >the ages of the Biblical patriarchs: Adam, Noah, Methuselah, etc.
> >They lived a large number of years because Earth used to orbit
> >much closer to the Sun in those days, and the length of a year
> >was much shorter.
>
> I always wondered how that happened.  I never thought of that
> possibility.
<snip>
> Bob Avery

Peace,
Glen

===============================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "planetxvideo_com" <planetxvideo@...>
To: <PX2003_Debate@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 3:08 AM
Subject: [PX2003_Debate] for Glen


> Glen wrote:
> >"This periodic orbit expansion has happened before. We know this
> >because of the ages of the Biblical patriarchs: Adam, Noah,
> >Methuselah, etc. They lived a large number of years because
> >Earth used to orbit much closer to the Sun in those days, and
> >the length of a year was much shorter.  After Earth moves out to
> >the orbit of Mars, the number of days in a year will increase..."
>
> Very interesting theory Glen.  I have always considered the long
> lifespans of the biblical characters to be because they were Annunaki
> or had some plant that acted as a "fountin of youth" (as described by
> Sitchin).  Very very interesting stuff, my man.

I reject Sitchin's theory about the Annunaki.

> Now, of course, i have some questions.  Where do you get your data
> regarding orbital calculations of Planet X?

First I had to find the date when Venus/Planet X would first rendezvous
with Earth and launch it into a Mars-crossing orbit.

As it happens, the 2003 apparition of Mars on August 28, 2003 will be the
closest (55.5 million km) during the 50-year span from 1969 through 2018.
That may be just a coincidence.  But if I were God, and if I were designing
a rendezvous mission for Earth to meet Mars, I would design Mars's orbit so
that it would be nearest Earth during the transfer maneuver.  The following
paragraph and tables were copied from the Guide 7.0 Mars help screen.
Guide is sold by http://www.projectpluto.com/.

   "The following table lists opposition dates for Mars from 1970 to 2020,
   and the distance between Mars and Earth on those dates, in millions of
   km.  You'll notice that Mars comes particularly close in 1971, 1988,
   2003, and 2018.  This is part of a roughly 15.8-year cycle of
   favorable oppositions.

   31 May 1969  dist 72.6      12 Feb 1995  dist 100.9
   10 Aug 1971  dist 55.9      17 Mar 1997  dist 98.7
   25 Oct 1973  dist 66.0      24 Apr 1999  dist 87.2
   15 Dec 1975  dist 85.2      13 Jun 2001  dist 68.1
   22 Jan 1978  dist 97.7      28 Aug 2003  dist 55.5
   25 Feb 1980  dist 101.       7 Nov 2005  dist 70.3
   31 Mar 1982  dist 95.3      24 Dec 2007  dist 88.6
   11 May 1984  dist 80.4      29 Jan 2010  dist 99.2
   10 Jul 1986  dist 60.6       3 Mar 2012  dist 100.7
   28 Sep 1988  dist 59.1       8 Apr 2014  dist 92.8
   27 Nov 1990  dist 78.2      22 May 2016  dist 76.2
    7 Jan 1993  dist 93.8      27 Jul 2018  dist 57.5
   "

Because I find that the Book of Revelation prophesies that Earth will be in
Sagittarius (from the Sun's viewpoint), when it encounters Planet X, it
means that the encounter must occur between June 18 and July 23 of any
year.  Sagittarius is the mounted archer in the sky.  Revelation 6:2
describes a mounted archer.

"And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon had a bow;
and there was given unto him a crown: and he came forth conquering, and to
conquer."

The center of the Milky Way is in Sagittarius, and the Milky Way is white.
A man with a bow is an archer.  The crown refers to Corona Australis, which
is the constellation immediately south of Sagittarius.  This time of the
year is also consistent with the parable of the fig tree in Matthew 24:33
which refers to summer.

This configuration of Earth in Sagittarius and Mars nearest it repeats
every 15 Earth years (15/1.88075 = 7.975 Martian years, where a Martian
year is 1.88075 Earth years).  The phase error of Mars in 2018 relative to
2003 is 8 - 7.975 = 0.025 Martian years = 9º ecliptic longitude.

So, if Planet X does not appear in the early summer of 2003, we might look
for it again in the summer of 2018.  However, Venus will not be in position
at that time, nor will Jupiter.  So, the summer of 2003 is the only time
that will fit my hypothetical scenario.

In my article http://home1.gte.net/res00bfl/Smiting_Sun&Moon.htm I found
seven possible epochs that met the criterion of causing the Moon's apparent
diameter at apogee to be 1/3 smaller than at perigee because it would be
50% farther away.  These epochs are:

2003 May 21 at 07:39 UT
2003 June 6 at 18:42 UT
2003 June 18 at 10:26 UT
2003 July 4 at 05:07 UT
2003 July 16 at 05:24 UT
2003 July 30 at 16:33 UT
2003 August 12 at 10:07 UT

Of these, only the middle three (June 18, July 4, and July 16) place the
Earth in Sagittarius (from the Sun's viewpoint).  I have been choosing July
4 because the Moon would be near First Quarter, and until recently I had
thought that Planet X would have to cross in front of the Earth because if
it had positive gravity, that is the only way that the slingshot maneuver
could give the Earth an increase in orbital velocity.  I believe that the
Moon needs to be on the opposite side of the Earth from Planet X so that
the Earth would shield the Moon from it.

But my ideas about this scenario have always been evolving as I learn more
about it.  Recently, I have come to believe that Venus/Planet X will have
negative gravity because the collision with Planet X will turn Venus
inside-out.  That requires Venus to cross Earth's orbit behind the Earth in
order to boost Earth's velocity.  The reason this is important is that it
is the only way that Venus can fly formation with the Earth for a few days
before crossing behind the Earth a second time.  Velikovsky said that the
two close approaches by Venus were six days apart.  In that case, in order
for Earth to shield the Moon from Venus, the Moon would need to be near its
Last Quarter.  The Last Quarter occurs on June 21 and July 21.  Therefore
either June 18 or July 16 would be the better choices (among those three)
for the first encounter.  I don't yet know which of these two is best, but
I will find out later.

I am indebted to your question for causing me to realize that July 4 is no
longer compatible with my evolving scenario.

Given a rendezvous date with Earth, the fact that Planet X needs to be in
(or very near) the ecliptic plane, given a period of 1965 years, and given
the fact that Venus needs to cross Planet X's orbit just as Planet X
crosses Venus's orbit, thus insuring a collision with Venus on or about May
7, 2003, these criteria constrain an orbit for Planet X.  It's incoming
orbit is retrograde, but when it hits Venus, its flow of time reverses, and
Venus/PX "bounces" off of the collision place in space, and it follows its
incoming orbit in reverse, which now becomes a direct orbit.

The orbit I have is preliminary, and I'm not ready to make it public.  The
"proof" if there is any proof to be had, will be if this orbit for Planet X
will explain the observed perturbations of the outer planets, Pluto,
Neptune, Uranus, Saturn, and Jupiter.  That is quite a tall order.  I'm
going to use my preliminary orbit to check the perturbations first.  Then
if that works out, I'll refine Planet X's orbit to do all the things I
think it must do.

> Where do you get your data regarding the
> earth's atoms changing from "left to right handed"?

Matthew 25:31-34

"31 But when the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the angels
with him, then shall he sit on the throne of his glory: 32 and before him
shall be gathered all the nations: and he shall separate them one from
another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats; 33 and he
shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then
shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my
Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the
world:"

> I can see you did a bit of rearanging of the Velokowsky
> material, but failed to see how the conclusions came about.

I hope this helps.

> Thanks for the post and any response.
> -robert
> www.planetxvideo.com

You're welcome.  Thanks for reading it and posing your thoughtful
questions.

Peace,
Glen

At 03:38 AM 3/21/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>ditto on that ...hey michael I,ve been dreaming of lobsters
>lately...lol we might have to get some sooner then your birthday :)

Man I tell ya... we'll have a lobster fest before the sea level rises!


Michael L. Cunningham
So Cal SleeperS - 2001 Grand Am GT
e-mail bogeystar@...
web site http://home.earthlink.net/~bogeystar/

Remembering the World Trade Center Massacre
Sept. 11, 2001

Cry Havoc! ...and let slip the dogs of war!

Visit the LX50 Web Site and join in our Discussion Forum!

"There are two infinite things: universe and human stupidity.
And I'm not sure of the former".
Albert.

"If you want to be counted... stand up!
  If you want to be heard... speak up!
  If you want to be appreciated... shut up!"

We've been notified by Building Security that there
have been 4 suspected terrorists working at our office.
Three of the four have been apprehended. Bin Sleepin,
Bin Loafin, and Bin Drinkin have been taken into
custody. Security advised us that they could find no
one fitting the description of the fourth cell member,
Bin Workin, in our office.

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
  invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write
  a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort
  the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone,
  solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program
  a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die
  gallantly. Specialization is for insects." Robert Heinlein

ditto on that ...hey michael I,ve been dreaming of lobsters
lately...lol we might have to get some sooner then your birthday :)

--- In ZetaAstro@y..., "sailorwes" <sailorwes@y...> wrote:
> Thank you for inviting me to join your new group , George. Although
I
> tend to remain in the background, the astronomy part is very
> interesting to me and have been searchingt he web for other like
> information on the (12th planet). Look forward to the discussions
> that will be going on here..
>
> Good to see Michael on board as well

I do believe something like Niburu is bound to happen-the law of
karma.  A friend who listens to Art Bell told me he's changing his
outlook on life whether or not Niburu comes close enough to Earth.
I am doing much the same.  Wolfman

I would also like to thank you for the invite!

I just gave the book 12th Planet to a friend for some light reading
while flying to visit family.

I also have an outline for it that a friend put together.

Its nice to meet you all :)

Lucy,
Website Producer
http://UFOWatchTower.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the invitation.

May I mention that I have my group at Topica that includes PlanetX?
www.topica.com/lists/21stcenturytimecapsule

Wolfman

Hi George, and thanx for the invite.
I'm not a mathematician or a scientist, so numbers
boggle my mind (I'm a social worker).  I am, however,
very interested in what's going on in our skies.
For the above reasons, while I may act as a lurker, I
will be avidly reading what others will have to say...

Great to see a new focus.

Cass
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-canada/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

Hiya George,

Thank you kindly for the invitation to ZetaAstro.  Based on the Group
Introduction and your first message, this should be a very informative
place to be.

Much obliged for the opportunity to learn,

Jimmy Joe (JJ)


> Hello,
>
> Welcome to the ZetaAstro group at Yahoo! Groups, a
> free, easy-to-use email group service. Please
> take a moment to review this message.

Thank you for inviting me to join your new group , George. Although I
tend to remain in the background, the astronomy part is very
interesting to me and have been searchingt he web for other like
information on the (12th planet). Look forward to the discussions
that will be going on here..

Good to see Michael on board as well

In a message dated 3/19/02 6:38:53 PM, bogeystar@... writes:
<< Thanks for inviting me George! >>

We are happy to have you here, Michael.

I look forward to reading about any and all anomalous images you see in your
scope from that mysterious mixture of coordinates - or any other coordinates.

Just because I can't do it myself doesn't mean I'm not interested!  I'm a big
astronomy fan - just no aptitude or equipment.

However, if there is anything I can look up at the New York Public Library,
or a question I could pose to the guys at the Rose Planetarium (at the
Natural History Museum) I offer my services.

Keep it in the back of your mind - I probably won't be able to say anything
helpful here otherwise - but I'll be reading everything.

Laura

Thanks for inviting me George!

Being the sceptic I am I promise not to muddy the waters in this
group but offer only the facts as I understand them as they relate
to the areas I'm most knowledgeable in!

I'll be your resident Purposeful Disrupter! LOL!

Let us educate ourselves. It's our only defense!


Michael L. Cunningham
So Cal SleeperS - 2001 Grand AM GT
e-mail bogeystar@...
web site http://home.earthlink.net/~bogeystar/

Remembering the World Trade Center Massacre
Sept. 11, 2001

Cry Havoc! ...and let slip the dogs of war!

Visit the LX50 Web Site and join in our Discussion Forum!

"There are two infinite things: universe and human stupidity.
And I'm not sure of the former".
Albert.

As a way to get the ball rolling here, I thought I'd introduce myself, for
those unfamiliar with me in my past life as a moderator of the Troubled
Times lists, and tell you how I came to create this group.   (This is NOT
the type of posting that I hope will be common on this list, however.  I'm
just trying to explain where I'm coming from and what I hope to accomplish).

I have spent my entire life in and around St. Louis Missouri, the eldest son
in a family of upper middle class Catholics.  My entire education from
Kindergarten to graduate school was spent in Catholic schools.  But it was
my nine years of education from high school on which most influenced me.

Both my high school and college were run by Jesuits.  The Jesuits have a
very definite (and somewhat controversial) educational philosophy:  they
tear down your preconceptions and prior beliefs, expose you to many
differing viewpoints, and then try to rebuild your belief structure to their
version of the Catholic faith.  Skepticism and critical thinking were
strongly encouraged.  Because of this philosophy, beginning at age 14 I was
exposed to the teachings of atheists, agnostics, existentialists, and
Eastern religions.  Even though I was exposed to these many 'alternative'
type beliefs, my personal bent was toward the more scientific and logical.
I spent my first two years of college as a pre-med Chemistry major, I then
switched majors and got my BA in Mathematics.  As a senior, I competed in
the Putnam mathematics competition (for any math geeks out there ;>) ).

It was during my high school years that I became a seeker who looked in many
directions for pieces of the truth.  I have studied, among other things,
astrology, psychic phenomena, UFO's, and channeled material.  I have read
much of the Seth material, Ruth Montgomery, and Edgar Cayce.  These last two
both spoke of a poleshift imminent at the end of the twentieth century.  In
late 1997, I discovered ZetaTalk.  Over the next few months I read the
wealth of material there, and was struck by the message contained there.
Much of it rang true to me, though I never did believe all of it.  The
Troubled Times lists were a vibrant community back then, with lively and
informative discussions, survival information and research projects.  I made
many good friends on those lists, many have been purged, and some are still
there today.

The central theme of ZetaTalk was always the existence of Planet X / Nibiru,
and the poleshift caused by its passing in May of 2003.  The implications of
this are so profound and far-reaching that all other aspects of the message
pale in comparison.

However, in August of 2000, a fundamental change to the tt lists began.
Beginning with the purge of Ron Darby back then, followed by the ouster of
Sol, then Laura, then the bogus votecall of a few weeks ago, there has been
a steady deterioration of the Zeta message and the quality of the lists.
Beginning with some highly questionable ZetaTalk delivered personally to Ron
back then, the Zeta message has lacked credibility.  Recent claims of
sightings and imaging of Planet X have been disputed by amateur astronomer
members of the tt-watch list, but those voices are being steadily silenced.

Without open discussion and debate, we cannot arrive at the truth.  As a
moderator on the tt lists, I tried to help keep the lists open for
alternative points of view, and was successful for quite a while.  However,
I have lost the war over there.  Skepticism and critical thinking should be
encouraged, not suppressed.

And so, I decided to follow through with my suggestion of August of 2001,
when I proposed a tt-astro list.  The difference is, I now am creating the
list on my own, NOT under the auspices of Troubled Times or ZetaTalk.  The
question of the existence of Planet X / Nibiru is still an important one to
be aired.  Sitchin makes a pretty good case for its existence, and the
ZetaTalk claims are so specific (including astronomical coordinates) as to
boggle the mind if they are hallucinations.  If Nibiru really is inbound and
will arrive in about 14 months, I want to know as soon as possible so I can
make my own preparations.  If it is not, I want to know that so that I can
get on with my life.

Please reread the group introduction before beginning posting.  I will not
censor any on-topic points of view, but I do want the discussion to stay
on-topic.  I will moderate or remove posters who are consistently off-topic.

And so, let the discussion begin.  Is Nibiru really inbound and going to
arrive in May 2003 or not?


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