Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
ZootForum · Zoot Discussion Forum
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Message search is now enhanced, find messages faster. Take it for a spin.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
PIM Structures   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #10195 of 13108 |
I plowed through both of the articles mentioned here in the last few days. I
also read some of Mimi Yim's related articles, which are written with a fun
sense of humor. I loved the inclusion of a few frightening examples of
people's organizational structures. To try to summarize some of what these
various articles suggest:

Benefits of Hierachical Structure
.People like hierarchical structures (items within files within folders)
because they give information a sense of location and sequence.
.Hierarchies tend to work best when tailored to an individual's personal
needs.

Problems with Hierachies
.Complex hierarchies are hard to construct (takes time and thought), and are
dependent on purpose.
.The appropriateness of hierarchies and sequence of items can both matter
(year/month/day and Sunday, Monday, ...)
.They break down semantically as they grow more complex.
.Different people use different terms for similar things (Tasks, Actions,
and ToDos; Notes, Memos, Items).
.Hierarchies tend to grow messy, with too layers and folders, too many
"random" or "misc" folders, and too many items stuffed into folders that
poorly match the item.
.Difficult to quickly reorganize for an ad hoc purpose (takes lots of time)
.Require placing items into appropriate locations (takes time)
.Rigidity of the parent/child model (many items could usefully go more than
one folder)

Benefits of Tags (Categories, Keywords, Attributes, Facets)
.Tags allow searches to locate items anywhere in the database
.Tags allow searches to group items together quickly based on the tags.

Problems with Tags (Categories, Keywords, Attributes, Facets)
.By themselves tags provide little sense of location or sequence relative to
the larger pool of data. (The databases feel chaotic.)
.Tags have to be added if not inherent in the data (takes time).
.Data thrown into a non-hierarchical structure with tags omitted is like
throwing items into a giant bin. You forget what's in there, and, unless you
get lucky with search terms, you never see it again unless you go through
the bin item by item (which takes time, especially if useless items are in
the bin). So ideally, tags should be added to the item early on, such as
when the item is placed in the database (takes time).
.Hard to create good tags (issues of consistency, synonyms, etc., so takes
thought)
.Tags multiple and become chaotic.

An ideal PIM might:
.Allow both a hierarchical structure and ways of tagging individual items.
.Allow items to be assigned (linked, cloned) to multiple folders in a
hierarchy.
.Allow items found in a search to easily be assigned (linked, cloned) to a
new folder.
.Allow for the automation of certain tasks, such as folder assignments and
keyword indexing.

The two programs that I have worked with that come closest to meeting this
ideal are Zoot and Ultra Recall. Zoot allows for more automation, but is
currently limited by 16-bit size barriers and lack of rtf. Ultra Recall is
remarkably advanced for a version 1.3 program, but lacks some of the
automation features of Zoot. However, its automatic keyword indexing of data
makes for lightning fast searches (but the database files become large), and
these searches and individual items can be placed in new linked locations.
And its template system is very nice for creating items with specific
attributes.

Not surprisingly, both programs are apt to bewilder anyone who gives them a
casual try. Their very flexibility forces the user to immediately confront
the challenge of creating useful hierarchical structures and good tags. To
provide a glimpse of what is possible, both programs provide sample
databases. The array of possibilities may make some users feel that these
programs provide more power than they need (which could be true for a person
who only needs to store a modest amount of easily structured information).

I think that what these articles make clear is that information storage and
retrival inevitably becomes a complex problem when large amounts of diverse
information are stored. Great, flexible tools can help, but there is a time
cost in learning to use them well, a time cost in structing and maintaining
large, complex databases, and the challenge of the database design comes
back partially toward the user when the software allows greater flexibility.

Randall




Sun Aug 7, 2005 4:52 pm

randall_shinn
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #10195 of 13108 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

I plowed through both of the articles mentioned here in the last few days. I also read some of Mimi Yim's related articles, which are written with a fun sense...
Randall Shinn
randall_shinn
Offline Send Email
Aug 7, 2005
4:53 pm

... I'm sure it will surprise no one when I say that Ecco probably got closest to this ideal (IMO). Last updated in 1997, it has, of course, no indexing, and...
tshanno
Online Now Send Email
Aug 7, 2005
6:26 pm

... Yes, its a shame that the Open Source initiative seems to be moving so slowly. And yes I agree that Ecco was/is a classic PIM Graham...
Graham Smith
myotisone
Offline Send Email
Aug 7, 2005
6:45 pm

I loved Ecco Pro as well, but exactly like Zoot and Ultra Recall many users found its flexibility daunting. Like these two programs, Ecco Pro provided sample...
Randall Shinn
randall_shinn
Offline Send Email
Aug 7, 2005
7:39 pm

The two programs that I have worked with that come closest to meeting this ideal are Zoot and Ultra Recall. Zoot allows for more automation, but is >...
sahuquillo2001
Offline Send Email
Aug 9, 2005
12:15 am

I am a newcomer to Ultra Recall. I am sure that other users in the forum could better answer your question. But I benefited greatly from downloading some Ultra...
Randall Shinn
randall_shinn
Offline Send Email
Aug 9, 2005
3:04 am

I use Ultra Recall and Zoot (I also use AnyNotes). Zoot is my workhorse for collecting and organizing. However, when it comes to "working" with the ...
Randy Risener
rrisener
Offline Send Email
Aug 9, 2005
8:49 am

With the discussion of various PIMs and Information Organizers lately, I was wondering whether anyone knew of a Zoot-like program that could perform arithmetic...
Jim Krist
jtkrist
Offline Send Email
Aug 10, 2005
2:27 pm

Jim, Not really answering your question directly, but you know that you can copy and paste from Zoot into Excel. This is a lot more convenient than exporting...
Graham Smith
myotisone
Offline Send Email
Aug 10, 2005
2:32 pm

Wednesday, August 10, 2005 at 2:22 PM Hello Everyone, Is there a way to import the structure of a file directory with links to each file? I though something ...
Shoebuddy Jones
shoebuddy
Offline Send Email
Aug 10, 2005
7:23 pm

It certainly is possible, Shoebuddy. 1 - Create an empty folder. 2 - With that folder selected in the Folder tree, click the Smart button 3 - Select Actions 4...
Bill Chapman
billc22001
Offline Send Email
Aug 10, 2005
7:55 pm

Hi, Bill. At least on my system, this populates with the files in the directory and the subdirectories, but not the files in the subdirectory. So what I've...
Tom Shannon
tshanno
Online Now Send Email
Aug 10, 2005
9:08 pm

Perhaps in Zoot 5! As far as I know, this procedure only works to bring in the files and subfolders (but not the files in the subfolders) in the specified...
Bill Chapman
billc22001
Offline Send Email
Aug 10, 2005
9:23 pm

Wednesday, August 10, 2005 at 4:46 PM Thanks Tom and Bill. Would the admiral consider a change here to include files in sub subdirectories? Has he been asked...
Shoebuddy Jones
shoebuddy
Offline Send Email
Aug 10, 2005
9:49 pm

... Yes, I couldn't use the feature if I had to do it every time. :) I've considered going to one single directory and tagging items for future reference. The...
Tom Shannon
tshanno
Online Now Send Email
Aug 10, 2005
9:51 pm

... Directory Opus (maybe other similar programs?) has a "flat" view where all subfolders and files are shown in one view. All the files (and folders) can then...
David Comstock
dcomst
Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2005
6:35 pm

... From: Randy Risener [mailto:r.risener@...] Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 1:41 AM To: ZootForum@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ZootForum] Re:...
Randall Shinn
randall_shinn
Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2005
4:17 pm

Hi All, Is it possible to enlarge the Zooter icon and put it somewhere else (eg LH or RH side of the screen)? Sometimes light conditions make it hard to find...
Leith Duncan
ikalapsed
Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2005
10:47 pm

You can slide the icon to the left, just pick it up with the mouse. You can access the Zooter with Alt+Z for the main zooter menu and alt+ctrl+Z for the zooter...
Graham Smith
myotisone
Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2005
11:09 pm

Randall, I went through a period of trying to find the Holy Grail but it hit me at one point that I would be far more productive if I just figured out how to ...
Randy Risener
rrisener
Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2005
11:42 pm

I agree that the all encompassing perfect PIM is probably not going to happen. I'm a big believer in tools like Google Desktop. Some way to make all the...
Steve
vampire
Offline Send Email
Aug 12, 2005
2:33 am

Phil is on leave until Monday 26th September. Please direct your issues to either: Administrator: Penelope Aunger - penelope@... Minister: Nigel Mann -...
phil@...
phil_mccredden
Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2005
4:20 pm

Phil is on leave until Monday 26th September. Please direct your issues to either: Administrator: Penelope Aunger - penelope@... Minister: Nigel Mann -...
phil@...
phil_mccredden
Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2005
4:23 pm

Phil is on leave until Monday 26th September. Please direct your issues to either: Administrator: Penelope Aunger - penelope@... Minister: Nigel Mann -...
phil@...
phil_mccredden
Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2005
4:27 pm

Phil is on leave until Monday 26th September. Please direct your issues to either: Administrator: Penelope Aunger - penelope@... Minister: Nigel Mann -...
phil@...
phil_mccredden
Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2005
4:28 pm

Phil is on leave until Monday 26th September. Please direct your issues to either: Administrator: Penelope Aunger - penelope@... Minister: Nigel Mann -...
phil@...
phil_mccredden
Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2005
4:31 pm

Phil is on leave until Monday 26th September. Please direct your issues to either: Administrator: Penelope Aunger - penelope@... Minister: Nigel Mann -...
phil@...
phil_mccredden
Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2005
4:32 pm

Phil is on leave until Monday 26th September. Please direct your issues to either: Administrator: Penelope Aunger - penelope@... Minister: Nigel Mann -...
phil@...
phil_mccredden
Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2005
4:37 pm

Phil is on leave until Monday 26th September. Please direct your issues to either: Administrator: Penelope Aunger - penelope@... Minister: Nigel Mann -...
phil@...
phil_mccredden
Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2005
4:40 pm
First  | < Prev  |  Last 
Advanced

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help