Thanks, Elisabeth, that works.

 

To echo a comment someone else made: It seems most the tools/frameworks discussed are for web based testing – I am getting the impression that 90% (or more) of the discussions  is testing related to web application. Is that a correct assumption?

Thick clients are still around (especially in DOD) and are being tested, but I rarely hear/read about those types of agile testing efforts.

Anyone here involved in agile testing efforts using thick clients  in Linux environments? If yes, what tools are you using for it?

 

Thanks

Elfriede

-----------------------

Elfriede Dustin

http://www.idtus.com

 

 

 

 

 

From: aa-ftt@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aa-ftt@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Elisabeth Hendrickson
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:10 PM

To: aa-ftt@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [SPAM] - Re: [aa-ftt] Re: 2009 meeting logistics: how do you want it to work? - Email found in subject

 

Hi Elfriede,

 

Sorry you can't participate...

 

Participating remotely wouldn't work given the structure of the meeting. 

 

We'll record demos/lightning talks as we have before (see http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=aa-ftt for the videos recorded at previous meetings that have been posted so far - several are missing - still working on getting the rest up...eventually - but the 2009 videos should go up sooner since I have an assistant to handle such things now...).

 

Elisabeth

------------------------------------------

Elisabeth Hendrickson

Quality Tree Software, Inc.

p 925-426-9726

c 925-989-9634

http://www.qualitytree.com

http://www.testobsessed.com

 

 

 

On Jun 9, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Elfriede Dustin wrote:

 

 

This all sounds very interesting, and I would really like to attend, but my schedule doesn’t allow it.

Can I participate remotely, or is any of this being recorded and made available for viewing later?

 

Thanks

Elfriede

 

From: aa-ftt@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aa-ftt@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Crispin
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:55 AM
To: aa-ftt@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SPAM] - Re: [aa-ftt] Re: 2009 meeting logistics: how do you want it to work? - Email found in subject

 

I am happy that Paul will show WebTest at aa-ftt because I think it's the most overlooked framework/tool/driver/whatever it is around. We started using it at ePlan in 2004 and the ROI has been amazing - our scripts caught 99% of the regression bugs (the ones we missed were either a missing DB constraint or just a hole in our smoke tests, which don't try to cover every scenario). The cost to write and maintain the tests is extremely low, especially for a GUI tool. Part of that is due to the client being thin, but there is a fair amount of JS and some Ajax. Also, the software has a lot of old-school modal dialogs which cause fits for some of the newer libraries. One can say, nobody should code that way anymore, but the fact is, we have a lot of legacy code still around that has to be supported with tests.

I'm excited to see easyB and Cucumber demo'd again too. One of my new coworkers, Michael Longin, who has developed a nice GUI test tool that we use at my new job, is going to attend also. We've come a long way in test automation, and I think we're in a period of exponential progress!
-- Lisa

On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Paul King <paulk@...> wrote:

 

Elisabeth Hendrickson wrote:
> Paul King said:
> 
>> if you go down the Groovy
>> language path you can readily develop nice testing DSLs on top of what
>> WebTest gives you out of the box, hook into nice scripting utilities
>> like AllPairs and AllCombinations, hook into data-driven testing 
>> libraries,
>> hook into BDD frameworks like JBehave, EasyB or Spock, and hook into
>> model-driven testing libraries if that takes your fancy etc.
> 
> Sweet!
> 
> I would love to see a demo of WebTest + Groovy + AllPairs and am curious 
> how that would hook into JBehave since WebTest seems to provide the 
> capabilities of a framework.

I think that can be arranged - though for acceptance testing, most people
seem to use EasyB instead of JBehave these days.

I certainly plan to cover such combinations in my talk/tutorial:

* How to make your testing more Groovy
http://agile2009.agilealliance.org/node/2826

You'll no doubt find Paul Hammant's talk interesting too:

* Selenium and JBehave : A surprisingly successful shotgun wedding
http://agile2009.agilealliance.org/node/3207

Some links if anyone wants to see the flavor of some of these combos beforehand:

* WebTest and Easyb
http://www.transentia.com.au/flatpress/?x=entry:entry081207-141042

* Selenium and Easyb
http://code.google.com/p/easyb/wiki/SeleniumAndEasyb

* Groovy and AllPairs (a little long-winded)
http://groovy.codehaus.org/Test+Combinations

* FEST (Swing GUI driver) and Easyb
http://www.jroller.com/aalmiray/entry/fest_easyb_making_ui_testing

Not sure whether Groovy, EasyB or WebTest is the "framework"
but I'll have examples of all of the above with me for the workshop.

Cheers, Paul.

> ------------------------------------------
> Elisabeth Hendrickson
> Quality Tree Software, Inc.
> p 925-426-9726
> c 925-989-9634
> http://www.qualitytree.com
> http://www.testobsessed.com
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 4:24 AM, Paul King wrote:
> 
>> Pekka Klärck wrote:
>>> 2009/6/9 Bret Pettichord <bret@...>:
>>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Lisa Crispin 
>>>> <lisa.crispin@...> wrote:
>>>>> Given these definitions, I believe WebTest, which allows you to 
>>>>> specify
>>>>> test cases in XML, execute them (via ant) and displays the results 
>>>>> in a
>>>>> lovely and helpful way, is a framework, using HtmlUnit as the 
>>>>> driver which
>>>>> uses HTTP to communicate with the app. But I could be wrong.
>>>> Sounds right to me.
>>>
>>> Sounds right to me too. WebTest isn't a generic framework, though,
>>> because, AFAIK, you cannot extend it with your own libraries/fixtures.
>>> That obviously limits using WebTest for other than web testing.
>>> HtmlUnit is definitely used as driver in this case, and it is used
>>> also by other tools/frameworks.
>>
>> As far as the above definitions go, it is not quite a black or white 
>> issue.
>>
>> From the XML flavor of WebTest you can call any Ant command. Ant is
>> quite extensive and of course you can call into Java, Jython, Groovy,
>> JRuby, JavaScript, Scala etc. Similarly, from the Groovy flavor of
>> WebTest you can do any Groovy/Java etc.
>>
>> It boils down to which of these will give me nice reporting.
>> Which will be easy to use. Which have tool support. Which are
>> embeddable within CI servers. Which can I show to customers.
>> Which allow reuse across my artifacts. Which are shareable
>> between developers and testers.
>>
>> I don't plan to answer all of those questions in this email
>> but it might be useful to point out a couple of things around
>> WebTest - given that it came up.
>>
>> WebTest has some special reporting for HtmlUnit/Web sites and
>> testing RESTful and SOAP web services and testing Emails and PDFs
>> and databases. In some sense, WebTest bundles some wrappers around
>> drivers (like HtmlUnit) which give you the pretty reporting.
>> If you call things which aren't wrapped you just get whatever
>> log messages Ant gives you which are a reasonable trace but
>> possibly not what a tester (and almost definitely not what a
>> customer) might ideally want.
>>
>> You can call out to things like FEST which also give you pretty
>> reporting for Swing and JavaFX (soon I believe) but its reporting
>> isn't integrated into the normal WebTest reporting - though with
>> Groovy or Ant at you disposal, merging in the reports isn't too hard.
>>
>> I guess the other twist in the story is if you go down the Groovy
>> language path you can readily develop nice testing DSLs on top of what
>> WebTest gives you out of the box, hook into nice scripting utilities
>> like AllPairs and AllCombinations, hook into data-driven testing 
>> libraries,
>> hook into BDD frameworks like JBehave, EasyB or Spock, and hook into
>> model-driven testing libraries if that takes your fancy etc.
>>
>> So, I guess it isn't as easy as one would hope to fully categorize
>> all the technologies according to a neat set of definitions. Having
>> said that, it's a great starting point for discussions.
>>
>> Cheers, Paul.
> 
>

-- 
Lisa Crispin
Co-author with Janet Gregory, _Agile Testing: A Practical Guide for Testers and Agile Teams_ (Addison-Wesley 2009)
http://lisacrispin.com