I have to agree with Charles. Whatever the web team comes up with is
what we'll go with. The only suggestion I would have is that the
site be designed in a way that makes it scaleable as far a content
areas ... and again, that's merely a suggestion. For what its worth,
I like George's prototype.

Tony

--- In aamug@yahoogroups.com, "Charles E. Pelkey" <pelkeyc@y...>
wrote:
>
> While I can understand that everyone wants a say in what goes into
> the website, I don't quite understand why this has been such a big
> issue. As far as I am concerned, the debate over whether CSS or
> tables are better is a moot point... We discussed the website at
the
> last meeting, and three people volunteered to deal with it. So let
> the three volunteers work out what layout style to use. My only
> concern would be whether we should incorporate flash into the
> design. While it has advantages, I do not feel that it is a
> requirement for the site.
>
> There is also another issue that WILL require input beyond the
three
> web geeks (I appologize if that offends anyone). That is what
> sections or areas we want on the site.  We discussed forums
briefly,
> and I feel that the site should have content categories based on
the
> macromedia technologies. We also discussed "member Profiles". What
> other items should we include on the website?
>
> V/r
> Charles
>
> P.S: If I come off a little gruff, I appologize.
>
> --- In aamug@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Hudson" <whudson@i...> wrote:
> > OK, I'm going to add my vote to "CSS".
> >
> > I primarily use tables with some CSS for style utility, for a
> variety of
> > reasons, including the fact that tables have the best support
from
> browsers
> > now and I think I can be more help now if the site is table-
> based.  That
> > being said, I think the keyword is "now," as it seems clear that
> CSS is the
> > future.  So, I'd be interested in using this opportunity to
start
> getting
> > smarter in CSS.  After all, a major part of why I'm interested
in
> our group
> > is that I want to expand my skills.
> >
> > All that being said, I agree - let's decide ASAP!  Toni or Gary,
> can you
> > guys set a deadline for the decision and then we can press on?
> >
> > Bill
> >   -----Original Message-----
> >   From: geo storm [mailto:veganwrath@y...]
> >   Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 11:40 PM
> >   To: aamug@yahoogroups.com
> >   Subject: RE: [aamug] New file uploaded to aamug
> >
> >
> >   Yes,
> >
> >   I will add the group logo to the site as soon as it is
> >   completed.
> >   I highly reccomend css for layout, but the group
> >   should vote on it as soon as possible since it will
> >   highly impact the design.
> >   read
> >
> >
>
http://www.macromedia.com/software/dreamweaver/productinfo/features/c
> ss_bene
> > fits/
> >
> >   Another table free design: http://abcnews.go.com/
> >   Microsoft germany is 80% table free (some left for
> >   cms):  http://www.windows.de/Homepage.Windows
> >
> >   Vote
> >   A. CSS
> >   B. Tables
> >
> >   So far I have had very little response from anyone on
> >   these things. If it wrern't for Tony, Bill, and
> >   Charles  there would be no feedback. I
> >   <strong>know</strong> there are more of us out there.
> >
> >   As for the design, Tony liked the newzra example I
> >   posted, and I liked the dreamweaver colors, so i am
> >   working to integrate the two looks. As for bieng
> >   flash, I am not planning to use much flash besides in
> >   the header. I know Bill is excited about rendering
> >   things in flash paper, I think that is totally cool.
> >
> >   As for converting to CSS, I can create the layout like
> >   you see in photoshop, and recreate it in css. Maybe a
> >   table layout can help you coldfusion guys, but we can
> >   always nest tables in our css design for data holding.
> >   Even those tables can be assigned a class in css and
> >   controlled from our one sheet.
> >
> >   Cool right?
> >
> >   Thanks guys.
> >   George
> >
> >   --- Pleas McNeel <Pleas@S...> wrote:
> >
> >   >
> >   > the site rufuses to let me in. it says that I'm
> >   > blocking cookies.  I'm
> >   > running firefox with cookies on.  suggestions?
> >   > //- - - - - - - - - p l e a s
> >   >
> >   > we need our own server space.  I hate yahoo........
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > At 02:42 PM 12/21/2004, Bill Hudson wrote:
> >   >
> >   > >Looks good to me, though I presume you're putting
> >   > "Alamo Area..." or our
> >   > >name in there somewhere.  Also, it has a "Flash"
> >   > look to it. I'm not big
> >   > >on the idea of an all Flash site, though I'm OK if
> >   > that's what everyone
> >   > >else wants.  Otherwise, I'd recommend using tables
> >   > for the site, as they
> >   > >are the most widely supported method of page
> >   > construction still.  I'm also
> >   > >aware that others (Toni?) like the idea of using
> >   > all CSS.  Again, I'll go
> >   > >with the group, whatever the consensus.  But, I'd
> >   > recommend tables to
> >   > >begin with as its fast to do.  We could always
> >   > transition to all CSS after
> >   > >we used the tables method to come up with a basic,
> >   > agreed on design.
> >   > >Thoughts, anyone?
> >   > >Bill
> >   > >-----Original Message-----
> >   > >From: aamug@yahoogroups.com
> >   > [mailto:aamug@yahoogroups.com]
> >   > >Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 12:10 AM
> >   > >To: aamug@yahoogroups.com
> >   > >Subject: [aamug] New file uploaded to aamug
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >Hello,
> >   > >
> >   > >This email message is a notification to let you
> >   > know that
> >   > >a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
> >   > aamug
> >   > >group.
> >   > >
> >   > >   File        : /idea3.jpg
> >   > >   Uploaded by : veganwrath <veganwrath@y...>
> >   > >   Description : Here is a version I am working on
> >   > for the site. Let me
> >   > > know what you guys think...
> >   > >
> >   > >You can access this file at the URL:
> >   >
> >
> >
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aamug/files/idea3.jpg>http://groups.y
> ahoo.co
> > m/group/aamug/files/idea3.jpg
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >To learn more about file sharing for your group,
> >   > please visit:
> >   >
> >
> >
>
><http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files>http://help.yahoo.com/he
> lp/us/g
> > roups/files
> >   > >
> >   > >Regards,
> >   > >
> >   > >veganwrath <veganwrath@y...>
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >   > >ADVERTISEMENT
> >   >
> >
> >
>
><http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129p8mi3h/M=297844.5692940.6750200.3356
> 155/D=g
> >
>
roups/S=1705005703:HM/EXP=1103748496/A=2196681/R=0/SIG=10v7of2am/*htt
> p://www
> > .target.com/careers>
> >   > >13f9c8e.jpg
> >   > >
> >   > >13f9d0b.jpg
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >----------
> >   > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >   > >To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >   >
> >
> >
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aamug/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/
> aamug/
> >   > >
> >   > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >   >
> >
> > ><mailto:aamug-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
> subject=Unsubscribe>aamug-unsubsc
> > ribe@yahoogroups.com
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> >   > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of
> >   > Service.
> >   > >---
> >   > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> >   > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system
> >   > (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >   > >Version: 6.0.817 / Virus Database: 555 - Release
> >   > Date: 12/15/2004
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > //- - - - - - - - - p l e a s
> >   > >
> >   > ---
> >   > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> >   > Checked by AVG anti-virus system
> >   > (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >   > Version: 6.0.817 / Virus Database: 555 - Release
> >   > Date: 12/15/2004
> >   >
> >
> >
> >
> >   __________________________________________________
> >   Do You Yahoo!?
> >   Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >   http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >               ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ---------
> > --
> >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aamug/
> >
> >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >     aamug-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.

While I can understand that everyone wants a say in what goes into
the website, I don't quite understand why this has been such a big
issue. As far as I am concerned, the debate over whether CSS or
tables are better is a moot point... We discussed the website at the
last meeting, and three people volunteered to deal with it. So let
the three volunteers work out what layout style to use. My only
concern would be whether we should incorporate flash into the
design. While it has advantages, I do not feel that it is a
requirement for the site.

There is also another issue that WILL require input beyond the three
web geeks (I appologize if that offends anyone). That is what
sections or areas we want on the site.  We discussed forums briefly,
and I feel that the site should have content categories based on the
macromedia technologies. We also discussed "member Profiles". What
other items should we include on the website?

V/r
Charles

P.S: If I come off a little gruff, I appologize.

--- In aamug@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Hudson" <whudson@i...> wrote:
> OK, I'm going to add my vote to "CSS".
>
> I primarily use tables with some CSS for style utility, for a
variety of
> reasons, including the fact that tables have the best support from
browsers
> now and I think I can be more help now if the site is table-
based.  That
> being said, I think the keyword is "now," as it seems clear that
CSS is the
> future.  So, I'd be interested in using this opportunity to start
getting
> smarter in CSS.  After all, a major part of why I'm interested in
our group
> is that I want to expand my skills.
>
> All that being said, I agree - let's decide ASAP!  Toni or Gary,
can you
> guys set a deadline for the decision and then we can press on?
>
> Bill
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: geo storm [mailto:veganwrath@y...]
>   Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 11:40 PM
>   To: aamug@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: RE: [aamug] New file uploaded to aamug
>
>
>   Yes,
>
>   I will add the group logo to the site as soon as it is
>   completed.
>   I highly reccomend css for layout, but the group
>   should vote on it as soon as possible since it will
>   highly impact the design.
>   read
>
>
http://www.macromedia.com/software/dreamweaver/productinfo/features/c
ss_bene
> fits/
>
>   Another table free design: http://abcnews.go.com/
>   Microsoft germany is 80% table free (some left for
>   cms):  http://www.windows.de/Homepage.Windows
>
>   Vote
>   A. CSS
>   B. Tables
>
>   So far I have had very little response from anyone on
>   these things. If it wrern't for Tony, Bill, and
>   Charles  there would be no feedback. I
>   <strong>know</strong> there are more of us out there.
>
>   As for the design, Tony liked the newzra example I
>   posted, and I liked the dreamweaver colors, so i am
>   working to integrate the two looks. As for bieng
>   flash, I am not planning to use much flash besides in
>   the header. I know Bill is excited about rendering
>   things in flash paper, I think that is totally cool.
>
>   As for converting to CSS, I can create the layout like
>   you see in photoshop, and recreate it in css. Maybe a
>   table layout can help you coldfusion guys, but we can
>   always nest tables in our css design for data holding.
>   Even those tables can be assigned a class in css and
>   controlled from our one sheet.
>
>   Cool right?
>
>   Thanks guys.
>   George
>
>   --- Pleas McNeel <Pleas@S...> wrote:
>
>   >
>   > the site rufuses to let me in. it says that I'm
>   > blocking cookies.  I'm
>   > running firefox with cookies on.  suggestions?
>   > //- - - - - - - - - p l e a s
>   >
>   > we need our own server space.  I hate yahoo........
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > At 02:42 PM 12/21/2004, Bill Hudson wrote:
>   >
>   > >Looks good to me, though I presume you're putting
>   > "Alamo Area..." or our
>   > >name in there somewhere.  Also, it has a "Flash"
>   > look to it. I'm not big
>   > >on the idea of an all Flash site, though I'm OK if
>   > that's what everyone
>   > >else wants.  Otherwise, I'd recommend using tables
>   > for the site, as they
>   > >are the most widely supported method of page
>   > construction still.  I'm also
>   > >aware that others (Toni?) like the idea of using
>   > all CSS.  Again, I'll go
>   > >with the group, whatever the consensus.  But, I'd
>   > recommend tables to
>   > >begin with as its fast to do.  We could always
>   > transition to all CSS after
>   > >we used the tables method to come up with a basic,
>   > agreed on design.
>   > >Thoughts, anyone?
>   > >Bill
>   > >-----Original Message-----
>   > >From: aamug@yahoogroups.com
>   > [mailto:aamug@yahoogroups.com]
>   > >Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 12:10 AM
>   > >To: aamug@yahoogroups.com
>   > >Subject: [aamug] New file uploaded to aamug
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >Hello,
>   > >
>   > >This email message is a notification to let you
>   > know that
>   > >a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
>   > aamug
>   > >group.
>   > >
>   > >   File        : /idea3.jpg
>   > >   Uploaded by : veganwrath <veganwrath@y...>
>   > >   Description : Here is a version I am working on
>   > for the site. Let me
>   > > know what you guys think...
>   > >
>   > >You can access this file at the URL:
>   >
>
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aamug/files/idea3.jpg>http://groups.y
ahoo.co
> m/group/aamug/files/idea3.jpg
>   >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >To learn more about file sharing for your group,
>   > please visit:
>   >
>
>
><http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files>http://help.yahoo.com/he
lp/us/g
> roups/files
>   > >
>   > >Regards,
>   > >
>   > >veganwrath <veganwrath@y...>
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>   > >ADVERTISEMENT
>   >
>
>
><http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129p8mi3h/M=297844.5692940.6750200.3356
155/D=g
>
roups/S=1705005703:HM/EXP=1103748496/A=2196681/R=0/SIG=10v7of2am/*htt
p://www
> .target.com/careers>
>   > >13f9c8e.jpg
>   > >
>   > >13f9d0b.jpg
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >----------
>   > >Yahoo! Groups Links
>   > >To visit your group on the web, go to:
>   >
>
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aamug/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/
aamug/
>   > >
>   > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   >
>
> ><mailto:aamug-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
subject=Unsubscribe>aamug-unsubsc
> ribe@yahoogroups.com
>   >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
>   > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of
>   > Service.
>   > >---
>   > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>   > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system
>   > (http://www.grisoft.com).
>   > >Version: 6.0.817 / Virus Database: 555 - Release
>   > Date: 12/15/2004
>   >
>   >
>   > //- - - - - - - - - p l e a s
>   > >
>   > ---
>   > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>   > Checked by AVG anti-virus system
>   > (http://www.grisoft.com).
>   > Version: 6.0.817 / Virus Database: 555 - Release
>   > Date: 12/15/2004
>   >
>
>
>
>   __________________________________________________
>   Do You Yahoo!?
>   Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>   http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>               ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
> --
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aamug/
>
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     aamug-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.

-----Original Message-----
From: geo storm [mailto:veganwrath@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 11:40 PM
To: aamug@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [aamug] New file uploaded to aamug

Yes,

I will add the group logo to the site as soon as it is
completed.
I highly reccomend css for layout, but the group
should vote on it as soon as possible since it will
highly impact the design.
read
http://www.macromedia.com/software/dreamweaver/productinfo/features/css_benefits/

Another table free design: http://abcnews.go.com/
Microsoft germany is 80% table free (some left for
cms):  http://www.windows.de/Homepage.Windows

Vote
A. CSS
B. Tables

So far I have had very little response from anyone on
these things. If it wrern't for Tony, Bill, and
Charles  there would be no feedback. I
<strong>know</strong> there are more of us out there.

As for the design, Tony liked the newzra example I
posted, and I liked the dreamweaver colors, so i am
working to integrate the two looks. As for bieng
flash, I am not planning to use much flash besides in
the header. I know Bill is excited about rendering
things in flash paper, I think that is totally cool.

As for converting to CSS, I can create the layout like
you see in photoshop, and recreate it in css. Maybe a
table layout can help you coldfusion guys, but we can
always nest tables in our css design for data holding.
Even those tables can be assigned a class in css and
controlled from our one sheet.

Cool right?

Thanks guys.
George

--- Pleas McNeel <Pleas@...> wrote:

>
> the site rufuses to let me in. it says that I'm
> blocking cookies.  I'm
> running firefox with cookies on.  suggestions?
> //- - - - - - - - - p l e a s
>
> we need our own server space.  I hate yahoo........
>
>
>
> At 02:42 PM 12/21/2004, Bill Hudson wrote:
>
> >Looks good to me, though I presume you're putting
> "Alamo Area..." or our
> >name in there somewhere.  Also, it has a "Flash"
> look to it. I'm not big
> >on the idea of an all Flash site, though I'm OK if
> that's what everyone
> >else wants.  Otherwise, I'd recommend using tables
> for the site, as they
> >are the most widely supported method of page
> construction still.  I'm also
> >aware that others (Toni?) like the idea of using
> all CSS.  Again, I'll go
> >with the group, whatever the consensus.  But, I'd
> recommend tables to
> >begin with as its fast to do.  We could always
> transition to all CSS after
> >we used the tables method to come up with a basic,
> agreed on design.
> >Thoughts, anyone?
> >Bill
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: aamug@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:aamug@yahoogroups.com]
> >Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 12:10 AM
> >To: aamug@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [aamug] New file uploaded to aamug
> >
> >
> >
> >Hello,
> >
> >This email message is a notification to let you
> know that
> >a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
> aamug
> >group.
> >
> >   File        : /idea3.jpg
> >   Uploaded by : veganwrath <veganwrath@...>
> >   Description : Here is a version I am working on
> for the site. Let me
> > know what you guys think...
> >
> >You can access this file at the URL:
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aamug/files/idea3.jpg>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aamug/files/idea3.jpg
>
> >
> >
> >To learn more about file sharing for your group,
> please visit:
>
><http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files>http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >veganwrath <veganwrath@...>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >ADVERTISEMENT
>
><http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129p8mi3h/M=297844.5692940.6750200.3356155/D=groups/S=1705005703:HM/EXP=1103748496/A=2196681/R=0/SIG=10v7of2am/*http://www.target.com/careers>
> >13f9c8e.jpg
> >
> >13f9d0b.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >----------
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aamug/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aamug/
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
><mailto:aamug-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>aamug-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >---
> >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system
> (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >Version: 6.0.817 / Virus Database: 555 - Release
> Date: 12/15/2004
>
>
> //- - - - - - - - - p l e a s
> >
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system
> (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.817 / Virus Database: 555 - Release
> Date: 12/15/2004
>



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Yes,

I will add the group logo to the site as soon as it is
completed.
I highly reccomend css for layout, but the group
should vote on it as soon as possible since it will
highly impact the design.
read
http://www.macromedia.com/software/dreamweaver/productinfo/features/css_benefits\
/

Another table free design: http://abcnews.go.com/
Microsoft germany is 80% table free (some left for
cms):  http://www.windows.de/Homepage.Windows

Vote
A. CSS
B. Tables

So far I have had very little response from anyone on
these things. If it wrern't for Tony, Bill, and
Charles  there would be no feedback. I
<strong>know</strong> there are more of us out there.

As for the design, Tony liked the newzra example I
posted, and I liked the dreamweaver colors, so i am
working to integrate the two looks. As for bieng
flash, I am not planning to use much flash besides in
the header. I know Bill is excited about rendering
things in flash paper, I think that is totally cool.

As for converting to CSS, I can create the layout like
you see in photoshop, and recreate it in css. Maybe a
table layout can help you coldfusion guys, but we can
always nest tables in our css design for data holding.
Even those tables can be assigned a class in css and
controlled from our one sheet.

Cool right?

Thanks guys.
George

--- Pleas McNeel <Pleas@...> wrote:

>
> the site rufuses to let me in. it says that I'm
> blocking cookies.  I'm
> running firefox with cookies on.  suggestions?
> //- - - - - - - - - p l e a s
>
> we need our own server space.  I hate yahoo........
>
>
>
> At 02:42 PM 12/21/2004, Bill Hudson wrote:
>
> >Looks good to me, though I presume you're putting
> "Alamo Area..." or our
> >name in there somewhere.  Also, it has a "Flash"
> look to it. I'm not big
> >on the idea of an all Flash site, though I'm OK if
> that's what everyone
> >else wants.  Otherwise, I'd recommend using tables
> for the site, as they
> >are the most widely supported method of page
> construction still.  I'm also
> >aware that others (Toni?) like the idea of using
> all CSS.  Again, I'll go
> >with the group, whatever the consensus.  But, I'd
> recommend tables to
> >begin with as its fast to do.  We could always
> transition to all CSS after
> >we used the tables method to come up with a basic,
> agreed on design.
> >Thoughts, anyone?
> >Bill
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: aamug@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:aamug@yahoogroups.com]
> >Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 12:10 AM
> >To: aamug@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [aamug] New file uploaded to aamug
> >
> >
> >
> >Hello,
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> >
> >   File        : /idea3.jpg
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> >   Description : Here is a version I am working on
> for the site. Let me
> > know what you guys think...
> >
> >You can access this file at the URL:
>
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> >
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Looks good to me, though I presume you're putting "Alamo Area..." or our name in there somewhere.  Also, it has a "Flash" look to it. I'm not big on the idea of an all Flash site, though I'm OK if that's what everyone else wants.  Otherwise, I'd recommend using tables for the site, as they are the most widely supported method of page construction still.  I'm also aware that others (Toni?) like the idea of using all CSS.  Again, I'll go with the group, whatever the consensus.  But, I'd recommend tables to begin with as its fast to do.  We could always transition to all CSS after we used the tables method to come up with a basic, agreed on design.
Thoughts, anyone?
Bill

-----Original Message-----

From: aamug@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aamug@yahoogroups.com]

Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 12:10 AM

To: aamug@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [aamug] New file uploaded to aamug

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that

a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the aamug

group.

  File        : /idea3.jpg

  Uploaded by : veganwrath <veganwrath@...>

  Description : Here is a version I am working on for the site. Let me know what you guys think...

You can access this file at the URL:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aamug/files/idea3.jpg

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-----Original Message-----
From: aamug@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aamug@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 12:10 AM
To: aamug@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [aamug] New file uploaded to aamug

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the aamug
group.

  File        : /idea3.jpg
  Uploaded by : veganwrath <veganwrath@...>
  Description : Here is a version I am working on for the site. Let me know what you guys think...

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aamug/files/idea3.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

veganwrath <veganwrath@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the aamug
group.

   File        : /idea3.jpg
   Uploaded by : veganwrath <veganwrath@...>
   Description : Here is a version I am working on for the site. Let me know what
you guys think...

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aamug/files/idea3.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

veganwrath <veganwrath@...>

I reccomend CSS and XHTML because of its flexibility in design. I like
having pixel by pixel control over where things go. Also, Styling a
site makes things far more accessible for people with disabilities.
They validate much easier. They also make for easier updates down the
long haul. Also, the user benefits because they only have to load
style definitions once, not on every new page they view. This makes
for quicker loading time on every subsequent page. Also, with
rollovers an image is only loaded when needed, and repeating images
also speeds up the experience.

All modern browsers support CSS2 but one<---IE--->
Unless we want to rely on fixed positioning for main elements, most
bugs with IE are solveable, and there are there are a plethera of
hacks out there to fix them, such as commenting things out and such.
I test with IE, Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla, and all browsers on the
Linux platform.

Of course, when dealing with data, I agree, css is not an answer.
Clearly tables are called for then.

The power of css outweighs the small bugs in IE in my opinion.
If anyone tests in Safari, or IE Mac, do you have any suggestions.

Thats my two cents worth.

George


--- In aamug@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Hudson" <whudson@i...> wrote:
> I agree, these are good sites and worth looking at for ideas.  As
for "all
> css designed pages," I use CSS to make my life easier, but I've bee
leery
> about making any of my sites "all" css.  The problem is you need to
use CSS2
> and its positioning capabilities and, as I understand it, CSS2 isn't
> universally or consistently supported among even the modern browsers.
> Anyone else care to comment?
> Bill
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Tony Bowie [mailto:bowie_tony@y...]
>   Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 5:00 PM
>   To: aamug@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [aamug] Re: Site suggestions
>
>
>
>   There are some good examples there. I like the nmmug.org and the
>   newezra.com sites the best. I especially like their use of color.
>
>   Tony
>
>   --- In aamug@yahoogroups.com, "veganwrath" <veganwrath@y...> wrote:
>   >
>   > hey all, I am searching the web for nice designs to show you all.
>   > I found a few user groups sites that seemed good. Only a few
>   though.
>   > the rest are all css designed pages ( which I would like us to do
>   ours in.
>   >  Here are the links, tell me what you think!
>   >
>   > http://www.ccmmug.org/Portal/
>   > http://www.rammug.org/radg/
>   > http://www.nmmug.net/
>   >
>   > all css designed:
>   >
>   >
>   > minimal and cool
>   > http://www.gl-o.com/
>   > http://www.fortymedia.com/
>   >
>   > really nice
>   > http://www.glassonion.com.au/?flashver=7.0.19
>   > http://www.shockmedia.com.au/
>   >
>   > modern and clean, nice use of color:
>   > http://www.newezra.com/xhtml/home/
>   >
>   >
>   > thanks all,
>   > George
>
>
>
>
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Service.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Bowie [mailto:bowie_tony@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 5:00 PM
To: aamug@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [aamug] Re: Site suggestions

There are some good examples there. I like the nmmug.org and the
newezra.com sites the best. I especially like their use of color.

Tony

--- In aamug@yahoogroups.com, "veganwrath" <veganwrath@y...> wrote:
>
> hey all, I am searching the web for nice designs to show you all.
> I found a few user groups sites that seemed good. Only a few
though.
> the rest are all css designed pages ( which I would like us to do
ours in.
>  Here are the links, tell me what you think!
>
> http://www.ccmmug.org/Portal/
> http://www.rammug.org/radg/
> http://www.nmmug.net/
>
> all css designed:
>
>
> minimal and cool
> http://www.gl-o.com/
> http://www.fortymedia.com/
>
> really nice
> http://www.glassonion.com.au/?flashver=7.0.19
> http://www.shockmedia.com.au/
>
> modern and clean, nice use of color:
> http://www.newezra.com/xhtml/home/
>
>
> thanks all,
> George

I uploaded the Dec minutes and some MM logos to the files section.

Tony

There are some good examples there. I like the nmmug.org and the
newezra.com sites the best. I especially like their use of color.

Tony

--- In aamug@yahoogroups.com, "veganwrath" <veganwrath@y...> wrote:
>
> hey all, I am searching the web for nice designs to show you all.
> I found a few user groups sites that seemed good. Only a few
though.
> the rest are all css designed pages ( which I would like us to do
ours in.
>  Here are the links, tell me what you think!
>
> http://www.ccmmug.org/Portal/
> http://www.rammug.org/radg/
> http://www.nmmug.net/
>
> all css designed:
>
>
> minimal and cool
> http://www.gl-o.com/
> http://www.fortymedia.com/
>
> really nice
> http://www.glassonion.com.au/?flashver=7.0.19
> http://www.shockmedia.com.au/
>
> modern and clean, nice use of color:
> http://www.newezra.com/xhtml/home/
>
>
> thanks all,
> George

hey all, I am searching the web for nice designs to show you all.
I found a few user groups sites that seemed good. Only a few though.
the rest are all css designed pages ( which I would like us to do ours in.
  Here are the links, tell me what you think!

http://www.ccmmug.org/Portal/
http://www.rammug.org/radg/
http://www.nmmug.net/

all css designed:


minimal and cool
http://www.gl-o.com/
http://www.fortymedia.com/

really nice
http://www.glassonion.com.au/?flashver=7.0.19
http://www.shockmedia.com.au/

modern and clean, nice use of color:
http://www.newezra.com/xhtml/home/


thanks all,
George

Tony,

You asked for some ideas about what we might be willing to present
and what we might like to see presented at our monthly meetings.  For
the first, here are some ideas:

1. Explain, demonstrate and share useful extensions.  I've found a
number of ones that I use regularly for both Dreamweaver and
Fireworks and I'm sure others have favorite ones, too.  I'd be
willing to present several at once for a single, larger presentation
or presentations.  Alternately, we could have something like
an "extension of the month" and show one per meeting.  I'd recommend
we put the extensions we present on our web site for download, too
(though most are on the Macromedia site, of course).

2.  Explain, demonstrate and share useful "support" programs.  Like
with extensions, I've found some small and free programs/web sites to
help with a variety of web design tasks - like various color
selection or Javascript creation tools.  It might be useful to share
these.

3. How I've succesfully handed a site's maintenance to a client
(several, actually) by showing them how to use "Contribute."  I do a
lot of free site construction for non-profits, with the proviso that
they do their own maintenance or pay me to do it.  Many have liked
the idea of doing their own maintenance to save money.

4. I found that I can sometimes get some benefit using Net Objects
Fusion (7.5) and Dreamweaver together for rapid site development.
Maybe some folks would find a demo of how to combine these two site
development tools interesting.

That's it for now.  Just a couple of ideas to add to the others
you'll get.

Bill Hudson

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the aamug
group.

   File        : /aaaLogoNew.gif
   Uploaded by : pelkeyc <pelkeyc@...>
   Description : Alamo Area Anglers logo - Requires mod for use

You can access this file at the URL:
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Regards,

pelkeyc <pelkeyc@...>

here is a major challenge I am having I mailed this message to
Charles, Now I pass it on to you all:

I have a challenge, hopefully you can help.
Is it possible to get one cfm file to 1) write to an access database
2) send the reciever the info 3) send the sender a confirmation notice?
I have to call if from flash, which I have gotten to work only to
write to the database or send the email, but not both at once.
One file would make things so much simpler.

the code:
from flash:
on (press) {
    if (Name eq "" || Email eq "" || Street eq "") {
    } else {
        loadVariablesNum("g3process.cfm", "", "POST");
    }
}
on (release) {
    if (Name eq "" || Email eq "" || Street eq "") {
    } else {
        loadVariablesNum("g3mail.cfm", 0, "POST");
        gotoAndPlay(2);
    }
}

from my cfm files
g3process:
<CFINSERT DATASOURCE="pixelateddata"
TABLENAME="clients"
  FORMFIELDS="Name, Email, Phone, Street, City, State, Country, Zip,
Website, Cell, Fax">

g3mail:
<cfmail type="html"
    from="#form.Email#"
    to="info@..."
    subject="Web proposal submission.">
    <html>
<head><title>PixelFragment.com Submission</title></head>
<body>
    <p>#form.Name# has requested a proposal.<br>
    #form.Email#<br>
    Phone: #form.Phone#<br>
    Fax: #form.Fax#<br>
    Street: #form.Street#<br>
    City: #form.City#<br>
    State: #form.State#<br>
    Country: #form.Country#<br>
    Zip Code: #form.Zip#<br>
      Current web address: #form.Website#<br>
          Left a message: #form.Message#</p>
</body>

This would help me SOOO much!

Thanks,
George

Gary,

Feel free to add a link to this on our website. I will be more than
happy to share the code that I am using... I have a few other
features that have been developed that are not yet implemented on
the dev site, but I should get them working early next week.

V/r,
Charles

--- In aamug@yahoogroups.com, Gary Rogers <gary.rogers@i...> wrote:
>

Fellow members,  I started working on a site for the group but have
not yet finished it.  I have it on my development server for all to
see (http://cpdesigns.homeip.net/aamug/).

I am currently working on the login/register functions and adding
rss/xml feeds from macromedia into the current category scheme.

Please provide comments and feedback.

-Charles




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•  
• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Fellow members,  I started working on a site for the group but have
not yet finished it.  I have it on my development server for all to
see (http://cpdesigns.homeip.net/aamug/).

I am currently working on the login/register functions and adding
rss/xml feeds from macromedia into the current category scheme.

Please provide comments and feedback.

-Charles

>X-Apparently-To: grogers@... via 206.190.37.84; Fri, 05 Nov 2004
>19:33:21 -0800
>X-Originating-IP: [140.98.193.23]
>X-Originating-IP: [140.98.193.23]
>From: colin@...
>To: <moock-updates@...>
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
>Subject: ||moock-updates|| nextgen flash player demo
>Sender: moock-updates-admin@...
>X-BeenThere: moock-updates@...
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>
>http://www.moock.org/blog/archives/000146.html
>
>last week,  kevin lynch (macromedia's chief software architect)
>demonstrated the next generation version of the flash player at the
>macromedia flash conference in tokyo, japan.
>
>visit the above url for a video of the demo. it shows:
>
>-saffron, a new type-rendering engine
>-dramatic performance improvements (a sluggish calendar app jumps from
>14fps to 125fps)
>-realtime bitmap effects (blur, dropshadow, colour matrix etc)
>-realtime video alpha channel
>
>colin
>
>--
>you are subscribed to moock-updates. for info and to unsubscribe, visit:
>www.moock.org/moockupdates/
>
>superb hosting for this list and moock.org is generously provided by
>Rackspace. See: http://www.rackspace.com/?supbid=moock

Gary Rogers
San Antonio, Texas
(210) 495-1873 (voice)
(210) 834-6899 (mobile)
(210) 496-3118 (fax)
gary.rogers@... (email)

-----Original Message-----
From: john walton [mailto:justhinono@...]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 4:20 P
To: aamug@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [aamug] CF hosting

Gary has arranged hosting but it has no CF support as
I remember it.  This thread is on for the entire group
me thinks. Tony, you or Gary out there for reply.
John&Deb


> Bill
> P.S. What CF host has the site?
>   -----Original Message-----

__________________________________________________
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Gary has arranged hosting but it has no CF support as
I remember it.  This thread is on for the entire group
me thinks. Tony, you or Gary out there for reply.
John&Deb


> Bill
> P.S. What CF host has the site?
>   -----Original Message-----

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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-----Original Message-----
From: John & Debbie Walton [mailto:justhinono@...]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 11:52 AM
To: aamug@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [aamug] CF hosting

I'm sure this is obvious to most, but may I suggest we make the
website an educational project for aamug members.  I would like to
learn the basics of dynamic web construction an CF interconectivity
with  Macromedia/Flash Apps and Databases.  I know this will slow
down our web dev but perhaps we can have presenters as it is being
built? Whadayathink?  John&Deb

I'm sure this is obvious to most, but may I suggest we make the
website an educational project for aamug members.  I would like to
learn the basics of dynamic web construction an CF interconectivity
with  Macromedia/Flash Apps and Databases.  I know this will slow
down our web dev but perhaps we can have presenters as it is being
built? Whadayathink?  John&Deb

Just wanted to know if we were going to take up the offer of $5 CF
hosting for the groups website?

We should probably discuss this at the next meeting... that way we
can find out how many folks can contribute their time and effort
into designing a site and adding functionality with cf and other
technologies offered by the host.

-Charles

This pdf is what I could find so far from Macromedia
regarding "Teacher Certification" course work.  I
still have no idea if any such groups are now
operating with previous SAMCFUG members.  Perhaps this
pdf could be positioned for member download from our
website? And will some one who knows the Trainer for
these Cert. Groups or has other info about the contact
person @ Macromedia please step forward... thanks,
John Walton

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This pdf is what I could find so far from Macromedia
regarding "Teacher Certification" course work.  I
still have no idea if any such groups are now
operating with previous SAMCFUG members.  Perhaps this
pdf could be positioned for member download from our
website? And will some one who knows the Trainer for
these Cert. Groups or has other info about the contact
person @ Macromedia please step forward... thanks,
John Walton

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Here are the links to some of the other group sites that are up and
running. Just thought I's share ...

Tony

http://www.lifug.org

www.mediametamorphosis.org

www.hmmfug.org

All, I submitted our paperwork to Ed Sullivan at Macromedia this
morning. Thanks for all the efforts thus far. With all this
enthusiasm and cooperative spirit, we're destined to be bigger and
better than ever!

The first page of our website is now available on the Internet.  The domain
name AAMUG has been registered for 2 years.  Russ Bennett of satexas.com
has agreed to provide us with hosting for our site for the first six months
for free.  After that it will be $5/monlth.  We should be able to manage
that amount as a group when the time comes.

Tony:  Could you please send me a short description of the presentation and
of the presenter for the next meeting.  I will post it on the website.  Thanks.

Gary

Gary Rogers
San Antonio, Texas
(210) 495-1873 (voice)
(210) 834-6899 (mobile)
(210) 496-3118 (fax)
gary.rogers@... (email)

Glynn, this is just a kind reminder of my need for
your help in identifying past contacts @ Macromedia
regarding the certification study groups.  I hope you
are able to find them, however if I do not hear from
you in a few days I will proceed anyway, so no sweat.
John Walton

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