Hello,

Yesterday I was thinking about percussion notation in ABC.

When clef=perc, abcm2ps prints an X-like note head for sharp notes and a
circled X note head for flat notes (normal heads for natural notes).

According to the ABC 2.0 draft IV, the number of staff lines can be set
by V:<ID> stafflines=<N>.

For MIDI players, a compatible approach could be (I thought) to reset
the map of percussion sounds:

% drum map
_e=42   % closed hi-hat
^e=46   % open hi-hat
^g=55   % splash cymbal
E=36    % bass drum
G=38    % acoustic snare
% etc.

This way, one could write:

X:1
T:Drum map
K:none clef=perc  % using the same pitch positions as of treble clef
|: E2 GE zE z2 & z_e z_e z_e z_e :|

--------

That is my basic idea. Has anybody a suggestion for a good syntax for it?

Cheers,
Hudson Lacerda


--
Hudson Lacerda <http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/hfmlacerda/>
*Não deixe seu voto sumir! http://www.votoseguro.org/
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*Quem tem medo de GNU/Linux? http://linuxfud.org/





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R.D. wrote:
  > I've not been able to find a list of  rhythms that should be accepted
for the R: field.

With abc being used for notating music for all kinds of music, from all
over the world and from all of music history, such a list would easily
become tens of thousands items long so I'm afraid it wouldn't be very
practical. (Abc isn't restricted to dance music btw, so R values like
"Air," "Lullaby," "Christmas carol" etc. should be apropriate.)

It's important to keep in mind that abc is mainly intended to be played
by living musicians (either directly or translated into some other
notation system) rather than computers, and ideally a musician is
supposed to know how to play a given rhythm within a certain tradition.

For computer playback I think BarFly's system of user definable "Stress
Programs" is the best aproach. It's by no means ideal, but a fixed list
of predefined values would either be to restricting, too big or - most
likely - both.



Frank Nordberg
http://www.musicaviva.com
http://www.abc-notation.com
http://www.online-guitarist.com
http://www.gitar-siden.com
http://www.tablatvre.com
http://www.mandolin-player.com
http://www.blues-harmonica.com
http://www.irish-banjo.com
http://www.blues-banjo.com
http://www.folk-banjo.com
http://www.roarogfrank.com

On 22 Oct 2005, at 10:06, Remo D. wrote:


>  I just downloaded abcmus (I didn't so far since it's not free). I find
> the way it express rhythms interesting, I'll try to contact Henrik to
> see if he has any objection of me implement the same mechanism in ABCp.
>
>  So, assuming that I could be able to parse the following rythm
>
>  R: myhp meter="2/2" tempo="1/4=120" swing="1/8=7 5 0 0" 7>5 2<4
> beat="1/4=2 4 4 2"
>
>  an application could be able to define ryhthms at the beginning of a
> tunebook and use them for more than one tune.
>
>  Looking the other way round, I feel I should offer a set of standard
> ryhthms and their equivalent parameters like I did for guitar chords.
>
>  Any comment?

I've never quite been able to understand AbcMus's syntax.  Could you
explain it?

BarFly defines stress programs in a separate file.  Here is the first
definition from that file:

* 1       % Just an ID (like X: in an abc tune)
Hornpipe  % Name (must match that in the R: field)
4/4       % Metre (must match that in the M: field)
1/2=90    % Default tempo (as in Q: field)
8         % Divide each bar into 8 segments
110 1.4   % notes in first segment, velocity 110, duration 1.4 x nominal
90 0.6    % second segment, velocity 90 duration 0.6 x nominal.
110 1.4
90 0.6
110 1.4
90 0.6
110 1.4
90 0.6    % and so on down to the last segment.

For notes which persist through more than one segment, the velocity is
determined by the segment in which the note starts, but the duration is
determined by combining the durations from all the segments through
which
it passes.

There's a much more detailed explanation in the file itself, but that's
enough to give you the gist of it.

Phil Taylor

On 21 Oct 2005, at 21:35, R.D. wrote:

  RD> I've not been able to find a list of  rhythms that should
  RD> accepted for the R: field.

  In reply, Philip Taylor wrote:

  PT> The programs to which this makes a difference are those
  PT> that support stress programming [...] so any such list
  PT> is likely to be meaningless.
  PT> Perhaps the list supported by abc2midi (whose stress
  PT> programs are hard-wired) would be useful.

  And John Walsh wrote:

  JW> As a postscript to this, abcmus, at least, needs
  JW> the combination rhythm/meter, since the stress program
  JW> has to look at both the R: and M: fields.

  I agree this list would not be meaningful for all programs and I offer
a compile-time option to exclude whatever is useless for the host
application. On the other hand some other application could find useful
to have rhythms treated uniformly.

  Looking at abc2midi documentation only "hornpipe" is mentioned in
relation with dotted notes, I'll have a look at the code to see if
there's anything more.

  I just downloaded abcmus (I didn't so far since it's not free). I find
the way it express rhythms interesting, I'll try to contact Henrik to
see if he has any objection of me implement the same mechanism in ABCp.

  So, assuming that I could be able to parse the following rythm

  R: myhp meter="2/2" tempo="1/4=120" swing="1/8=7 5 0 0" 7>5 2<4
beat="1/4=2 4 4 2"

  an application could be able to define ryhthms at the beginning of a
tunebook and use them for more than one tune.

  Looking the other way round, I feel I should offer a set of standard
ryhthms and their equivalent parameters like I did for guitar chords.

  Any comment?

  Remo D.


John Walsh wrote:

> On 21 Oct 2005, at 21:35, R.D. wrote:
>
> >> I've not been able to find a list of  rhythms that should be
> accepted
> >> for the R: field.
> >>
> >> Here is a partial list with some abbreviations, is there anybody
> >> willing to help me completing it?
> >
> >The programs to which this makes a difference are those that support
> >stress programming.  As far as I know there are only three, BarFly,
> >AbcMus and abc2midi.  BarFly, and (I think) AbcMus allow the user to
> >define their own stress programs, and therefore to define what goes
> >into the R: field, so any such list is likely to be meaningless.
> >Perhaps the list supported by abc2midi (whose stress programs are
> >hard-wired) would be useful.
> >
> >Phil Taylor
> >
>
> As a postscript to this, abcmus, at least, needs the combination
> rhythm/meter, since the stress program has to look at both the R: and
> M: fields. Some rhythms can be written in a variety of meters.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John Walsh
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
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>
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>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:48:27 -0200, Hudson Lacerda
<hfmlacerda@...> wrote:
>>>* repeated tuplets
>>
>> I' don't understand this. What's a "repeated tuplet"?
>
>I am not sure, I suppose this:
>
>(4:3cdef defg efga gfed
>for
>(4:3cdef (4:3defg (4:3efga (4:3gfed

I was thinking about 'nested tuplets', but the syntax already permits
this feature:

	 (7:8:8 (3 cde cdefg

--
Ken ar c'hentañ |       ** Breizh ha Linux atav! **
Jef  |  http://moinejf.free.fr/

On 21 Oct 2005, at 21:35, R.D. wrote:

>> I've not been able to find a list of  rhythms that should be
accepted
>> for the R: field.
>>
>> Here is a partial list with some abbreviations, is there anybody
>> willing to help me completing it?
>
>The programs to which this makes a difference are those that support
>stress programming.  As far as I know there are only three, BarFly,
>AbcMus and abc2midi.  BarFly, and (I think) AbcMus allow the user to
>define their own stress programs, and therefore to define what goes
>into the R: field, so any such list is likely to be meaningless.
>Perhaps the list supported by abc2midi (whose stress programs are
>hard-wired) would be useful.
>
>Phil Taylor
>

As a postscript to this, abcmus, at least, needs the combination
rhythm/meter, since the stress program has to look at both the R: and
M: fields. Some rhythms can be written in a variety of meters.

Cheers,

John Walsh

On 21 Oct 2005, at 21:35, R.D. wrote:

> I've not been able to find a list of  rhythms that should be accepted
> for the R: field.
>
> Here is a partial list with some abbreviations, is there anybody
> willing to help me completing it?

The programs to which this makes a difference are those that support
stress programming.  As far as I know there are only three, BarFly,
AbcMus and abc2midi.  BarFly, and (I think) AbcMus allow the user to
define their own stress programs, and therefore to define what goes
into the R: field, so any such list is likely to be meaningless.
Perhaps the list supported by abc2midi (whose stress programs are
hard-wired) would be useful.

Phil Taylor

I've not been able to find a list of  rhythms that should be accepted for the R:
field.

Here is a partial list with some abbreviations, is there anybody willing to help
me completing it?

Thanks!
                                          Remo

Reel  R
Hpipe Hornpipe H
JigD  DoubleJig DJ
JigSl SlipJig HopJig SJ
SgJig SingleJig Jig J
Slide Sl
SetD  SetDance SetPiece
SgReel SingleReel
Polka
BDnce BarnDance OneStep
Schot Schottische
Hland  Highland
Fling
Strath Strathspey
Mzrka Mazurka
Waltz
Redowas
Piece
Galop
Gavotte
Salsa
Swing
Tango
March
Tango
Bossanova
Salsa

Phil Taylor wrote:
> >
> Gregorian chant notation isn't particularly complex.  The neumes are
> implemented using abc's beaming mechanism i.e. if you write a group of
> notes without spaces between them they get grouped together into a
> neume.
> It's up to the program to determine which symbol to draw by inspecting
> the (up/down) sequence of the notes.  It may look unfamiliar, but in
> practice it's actually much simpler than constructing conventianal
> beams.  There's a description of how BarFly does it here:
>
> <http://www.barfly.dial.pipex.com/bfgregorian.html>
>
> (Sorry, the links from that page seem to be broken, but the page itself
> describes the notation adequately.)
>

All the printed neumes I've seen are square/rectangular and some with
lots more gradual slopes than could be done I thought by having note
shapes on one line and then having note shapes on the space above or
below the current line.  The printed (well... copied) examples were
written by dragging a wide nibbed pen.

Am I misunderstanding, or are there variations, or in implementation is
there a way to square things off and make the slope gradual, or am I
completely misunderstanding, and where it says 'a group of notes w/o
spaces between them get grouped together in a neume' really means that
the note heads and stems are gone and just the beam is visible... I
could see how that would look like the neumes I've seen printed.

--
    //Christian

Christian Marcus Cepel            | And the wrens have returned &
christian@... icq:12384980  | are nesting; In the hollow of
371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO     | that oak where his heart once
65203-2202 573.999.2370           | had been; And he lifts up his
Computer Support Specialist, Sr.  | arms in a blessing; For being
University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.    --Rich Mullins

Atte André Jensen wrote:
> Frank Nordberg wrote:
>
>> (Posting this message both to the old and the new list address. Sorry
>> if that means people get duplicate messages.)
>
>
> This leads me to ask: What will happen to the old list, Toby? I guess it
> should be terminated, or..?


	 It's going to be turned off in 1 week. I'm just giving everyone time to
move over. There are a few people I have to manually move over due to
circumstances. So the migration is not yet complete yet.

Phil Taylor escreveu:
> On 18 Oct 2005, at 02:48, Hudson Lacerda wrote:

[...]
>>abcMIDI notation (see CHANGES, February 21 {and 26} 2005 and
>>abcguide.txt, line 200ss) is based on abcm2ps (see features.txt).
>>
>>There are a few differences: abcMIDI doesn't accepts microtones as
>>normal accidentals. You can't use them in K:, and they are not
>>propagated to other notes in the same measure.
>
>
> If they are not accepted as normal accidentals, and you can't
> use them in the key signature, how are they used?

Here is an excerpt of abcguide.txt (abcMIDI):

<<<<
Note that unlike accidentals, microtones do not propogate across a measure.
Microtones are implemented using the MIDI pitchwheel command. Since the
pitchwheel affects all notes played on a specific channel, a microtone
applied to any note in a chord specified by rectangular brackets,
(eg. [ACE]) will apply to all the notes in the chord.

In accordance to the General MIDI recommendations the pitch range
of the pitchwheel is set to plus or minus two semitones. Therefore
abc2midi cannot go beyond this range.

Microtones may be placed between tied notes, producing a pitch
bend effect. eg G- ^/G.

Microtones have been introduced fairly recently into abcmidi (Mar 2005);
so far there is very little abc notated on the web which exploits
this feature.
  >>>>

[...]
> Gregorian chant notation isn't particularly complex.  The neumes are
> implemented using abc's beaming mechanism i.e. if you write a group of
> notes without spaces between them they get grouped together into a
> neume.
> It's up to the program to determine which symbol to draw by inspecting
> the (up/down) sequence of the notes.  It may look unfamiliar, but in
> practice it's actually much simpler than constructing conventianal
> beams.  There's a description of how BarFly does it here:
>
> <http://www.barfly.dial.pipex.com/bfgregorian.html>

Simple and elegant syntax. Very fine!!!

[...]
> One problem I have with chord symbols is that the conventional notation
> for guitar chords does not contain sufficient information to determine
> the exact fingering.  A chord such as "D" can be played at least six
> different ways on a guitar fingerboard.  Even if you specify the bottom
> note "D/F#" there remain ambiguities - how many notes (3 - 6) and which
> notes get doubled?  If we are going to incorporate chord symbols into
> abc we will need a notation to specify exactly which notes are to be
> played, and on which strings.  A sequence of numbers would do, e.g.
> "D 2 0 0 2 3 2".  It's a specialised area, limited to one instrument,
> and only really needed by beginners though.
>
> Phil Taylor

I have made abcm2ps extensions for guitar chords (deco/postscript).
Given a definition of the postscript operator "bracinho", one can define
decorations like:
	 %%deco C 3 bracinho 50 0 0 ^C x 3 2 0 1 0
or use directly a postscript command:
	 %%postscript (^Em 2 0 0 2)400 -48 bracinho
This notation is based on ChordPro (e.g. D#dim xx1212). A missing
feature is to represent fingers by numbers.)

Things like "D 2 0 0 2 3 2" are not good, really. In general, beginners
will need only one fingering for each chord.

Anyway, IMHO, we don't need a standardization of this feature, which can
be implemented optionally for applications using pseudo-comments.

---

My goal with this thread is to know:

- why those features have the status of "still missing" in ABC 2.0 draft IV;
- what programs currently support those features;
- whether those features really should be standardized or not.

Cheers,
Hudson

--
Hudson Lacerda <http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/hfmlacerda/>
*Não deixe seu voto sumir! http://www.votoseguro.org/
*Apóie o manifesto! http://www.votoseguro.com/alertaprofessores/
*Quem tem medo de GNU/Linux? http://linuxfud.org/





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On Tue, 18 Oct 2005, Myscha wrote:

> I still believe that the simplicity is a very important element of
> ABC notation.

Originally ABC was invented to notate (folk)tunes.
It is possible, with a little training, to read simple ABC scores and sing
or play them immediately from paper (or screen) just like real
musicscores.

But when people started to turn ABC into a complete Music Notation
language suitable for professional music typesetting purposes things
became more and more complicated.

I think that's OK, as long as it is still possible to human-write and
human-read simple ABC tunes. Complex scores need complex notation
commands and we should accept that as a fact. Simple tunes can still be
notated using the basic human-readable ABC syntax.

In my opinion ABC offers the best of both worlds.

--

Martin Tarenskeen

--- In abcusers@yahoogroups.com, Phil Taylor <aar09@d...> wrote:
>
> One problem I have with chord symbols is that the conventional
notation
> for guitar chords does not contain sufficient information to
determine
> the exact fingering.  A chord such as "D" can be played at least
six
> different ways on a guitar fingerboard.  Even if you specify the
bottom
> note "D/F#" there remain ambiguities - how many notes (3 - 6) and
which
> notes get doubled?  If we are going to incorporate chord symbols
into
> abc we will need a notation to specify exactly which notes are to
be
> played, and on which strings.  A sequence of numbers would do, e.g.
> "D 2 0 0 2 3 2".  It's a specialised area, limited to one
instrument,
> and only really needed by beginners though.

I still believe that the simplicity is a very important element of
ABC notation. If guitar chords seem oversimplified, isn't there a
parallel with the figured bass of the sixteenth and seventeenth
centuries? Keeping the notation as simple as possible allows more
freedom of interpretation to the performer.

On 18 Oct 2005, at 02:48, Hudson Lacerda wrote:

> Remo D. escreveu:
>>> * repeated tuplets
>>
>>
>> I' don't understand this. What's a "repeated tuplet"?
>
> I am not sure, I suppose this:
>
> (4:3cdef defg efga gfed
> for
> (4:3cdef (4:3defg (4:3efga (4:3gfed

Ouch!  No, that's horribly ambiguous.

>
> Could macros work as suitable abbreviations?

Yes, that would work now.  But you do have to be careful
not to over-use macros - as in C they obfuscate the code.

>
>>
>>
>>> * octava indications
>>
>>
>> New decorations: "8va("    ..... "8va)"    and "8vab(" ...."8vab)"
>> But also treble+15 or alto-22 for two or three octaves transposition.
>
> Interesting. Both players and score generators could interpret such
> decorations in a consistent way.

No problem with that.

>
> [...]
>>> * microtonal accidentals
>>> abcm2ps, jcabc2ps, abc2midi (abcMIDI)
>>
>>
>> Again abcm2ps: ^1/4F
>> For convenience I also introduced quarters of semitone. This is a
>> sequence of eigths of tones from _A to ^A:
>>
>> _A _,A _/A _'A A ^,A ^/A ^'A ^A
>>
>> I might have missed the notation for jcab2ps and abc2midi, are they
>> different from abcm2ps?
>
> abcMIDI notation (see CHANGES, February 21 {and 26} 2005 and
> abcguide.txt, line 200ss) is based on abcm2ps (see features.txt).
>
> There are a few differences: abcMIDI doesn't accepts microtones as
> normal accidentals. You can't use them in K:, and they are not
> propagated to other notes in the same measure.

If they are not accepted as normal accidentals, and you can't
use them in the key signature, how are they used?

>
> jcabc2ps only accepts _/ and ^/ for printing, but cannot play them.
>
>>
>>
>>> * tabulatures
>>> abctab2ps
>>
>>
>> Still to be implemented but keys like frenchtab or ukuleletab
>> recognized
>> (not high priority in my list, though). I was thinking of directly
>> recognize things like [,abc,a] when the specified key is one of the
>> the
>> tablature keys.
>
> The abctab2ps approach, that is good.
>
> Printing implementation seems to be very complex (like Gregorian chant
> notation).

Gregorian chant notation isn't particularly complex.  The neumes are
implemented using abc's beaming mechanism i.e. if you write a group of
notes without spaces between them they get grouped together into a
neume.
It's up to the program to determine which symbol to draw by inspecting
the (up/down) sequence of the notes.  It may look unfamiliar, but in
practice it's actually much simpler than constructing conventianal
beams.  There's a description of how BarFly does it here:

<http://www.barfly.dial.pipex.com/bfgregorian.html>

(Sorry, the links from that page seem to be broken, but the page itself
describes the notation adequately.)

>
>>
>>
>>> * guitar chords diagrams
>>
>>
>> Out of scope for ABCp but it can recognize things like "G6" or
>> "Amaj9(sus4)". It will return the notes within the chord in semitones
>> starting from the fundamental (e.g. "0,4,7,9" for a "x6" chord)
>> almost
>> the opposite of the "%%MIDI chordname" command.
> [...]
>
> There are programs (not ABC) that automatically list the chords used in
> a piece of music, printing the respective diagrams, at the end of the
> piece.

One problem I have with chord symbols is that the conventional notation
for guitar chords does not contain sufficient information to determine
the exact fingering.  A chord such as "D" can be played at least six
different ways on a guitar fingerboard.  Even if you specify the bottom
note "D/F#" there remain ambiguities - how many notes (3 - 6) and which
notes get doubled?  If we are going to incorporate chord symbols into
abc we will need a notation to specify exactly which notes are to be
played, and on which strings.  A sequence of numbers would do, e.g.
"D 2 0 0 2 3 2".  It's a specialised area, limited to one instrument,
and only really needed by beginners though.

Phil Taylor

Frank Nordberg wrote:
> (Posting this message both to the old and the new list address. Sorry if
> that means people get duplicate messages.)

This leads me to ask: What will happen to the old list, Toby? I guess it
should be terminated, or..?

--
peace, love & harmony
Atte

http://www.atte.dk

Remo D. escreveu:
> For ABCp I'm working only at syntactic level, it will be much harder to
> really implement these extensions into programs like abcm2ps or abcMidi.

That is an important factor to make slow the standardization: time (and
effort) to implement the features.

>
> Anyway,  here are what I implemented (or planning to implement) in ABCp:
>
>
>>* repeated tuplets
>
>
> I' don't understand this. What's a "repeated tuplet"?

I am not sure, I suppose this:

(4:3cdef defg efga gfed
for
(4:3cdef (4:3defg (4:3efga (4:3gfed

Could macros work as suitable abbreviations?

>
>
>>* octava indications
>
>
> New decorations: "8va("    ..... "8va)"    and "8vab(" ...."8vab)"
> But also treble+15 or alto-22 for two or three octaves transposition.

Interesting. Both players and score generators could interpret such
decorations in a consistent way.

[...]
>>* microtonal accidentals
>>abcm2ps, jcabc2ps, abc2midi (abcMIDI)
>
>
> Again abcm2ps: ^1/4F
> For convenience I also introduced quarters of semitone. This is a
> sequence of eigths of tones from _A to ^A:
>
> _A _,A _/A _'A A ^,A ^/A ^'A ^A
>
> I might have missed the notation for jcab2ps and abc2midi, are they
> different from abcm2ps?

abcMIDI notation (see CHANGES, February 21 {and 26} 2005 and
abcguide.txt, line 200ss) is based on abcm2ps (see features.txt).

There are a few differences: abcMIDI doesn't accepts microtones as
normal accidentals. You can't use them in K:, and they are not
propagated to other notes in the same measure.

jcabc2ps only accepts _/ and ^/ for printing, but cannot play them.

>
>
>>* tabulatures
>>abctab2ps
>
>
> Still to be implemented but keys like frenchtab or ukuleletab recognized
> (not high priority in my list, though). I was thinking of directly
> recognize things like [,abc,a] when the specified key is one of the the
> tablature keys.

The abctab2ps approach, that is good.

Printing implementation seems to be very complex (like Gregorian chant
notation).

>
>
>>* guitar chords diagrams
>
>
> Out of scope for ABCp but it can recognize things like "G6" or
> "Amaj9(sus4)". It will return the notes within the chord in semitones
> starting from the fundamental (e.g. "0,4,7,9" for a "x6" chord)  almost
> the opposite of the "%%MIDI chordname" command.
[...]

There are programs (not ABC) that automatically list the chords used in
a piece of music, printing the respective diagrams, at the end of the piece.

Cheers,
Hudson

--
Hudson Lacerda <http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/hfmlacerda/>
*Não deixe seu voto sumir! http://www.votoseguro.org/
*Apóie o manifesto! http://www.votoseguro.com/alertaprofessores/
*Quem tem medo de GNU/Linux? http://linuxfud.org/





_______________________________________________________
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For ABCp I'm working only at syntactic level, it will be much harder to
really implement these extensions into programs like abcm2ps or abcMidi.

Anyway,  here are what I implemented (or planning to implement) in ABCp:

> * repeated tuplets

I' don't understand this. What's a "repeated tuplet"?

> * octava indications

New decorations: "8va("    ..... "8va)"    and "8vab(" ...."8vab)"
But also treble+15 or alto-22 for two or three octaves transposition.

> * optional accidentals

(^)F or  (=)G

> * optional slurs
> abcm2ps (dotted slurs/ties)

Borrowed abc2pms  .( and .-

> * microtonal accidentals
> abcm2ps, jcabc2ps, abc2midi (abcMIDI)

Again abcm2ps: ^1/4F
For convenience I also introduced quarters of semitone. This is a
sequence of eigths of tones from _A to ^A:

_A _,A _/A _'A A ^,A ^/A ^'A ^A

I might have missed the notation for jcab2ps and abc2midi, are they
different from abcm2ps?

> * tabulatures
> abctab2ps

Still to be implemented but keys like frenchtab or ukuleletab recognized
(not high priority in my list, though). I was thinking of directly
recognize things like [,abc,a] when the specified key is one of the the
tablature keys.

> * guitar chords diagrams

Out of scope for ABCp but it can recognize things like "G6" or
"Amaj9(sus4)". It will return the notes within the chord in semitones
starting from the fundamental (e.g. "0,4,7,9" for a "x6" chord)  almost
the opposite of the "%%MIDI chordname" command.

> * Gregorian chant
> Barfly

Agreed (but no work done on it). Here I'm not clear about what to
report, should I recognize neumes?

I've also added more decorations like !pianissimo! as an alias for !pp!
and the name of instruments:
   %%MIDI drum d2dz MuteCuica Triangle 127 80

Remo D.

(Posting this message both to the old and the new list address. Sorry if
that means people get duplicate messages.)

Forgeot Eric wrote:
> I generally think mailing lists are from another age, when php
> didn't exist yet, and it was not really possible to use a message
> board like those from phpBB, with rational topics so users can go
> and read what they want (ex : ABC tunes, abc development and
> standard, abc software etc.)

For the record: there already is a (virtually unused) abc message board
at http://www.abc-notation.com/forum/index.html
No categories à la phpBB yet, but that can be easily arranged if needed.

I see a maillist and a message board as two very different tools with
very different functions in an online community. They shouldn't compete
at all, but rather complement each other.

> A message board can also keep track of past discussions, and avoid
> the use of a mailarchive and the risk of the email address being
> stealt etc.

I agree. These are fields where a message board would be more suitable
than a list. Ideally a mail archive should have a very limited function.
   The moment it becomes an ersatz bulletin board, a real message board
would be more suitable. This is especially an issue now that we've moved
to Yahoo. Yahoo groups have many strong sides, but the mail archive
system is definitely not one of them.

> A yahoo group is not better than a usenet or whatever else mailing
> list.

A well maintained Yahoo group is virtually spam free, while the average
usenet group is anything but. To me that's a huge difference.


Frank Nordberg
http://www.musicaviva.com
http://www.abc-notation.com

> --- In abcusers@yahoogroups.com, Hudson Lacerda <hfmlacerda@y...>
wrote:
...
> > * octava indications
> >
> > * optional accidentals
> >
> > * optional slurs
> > abcm2ps (dotted slurs/ties)
> >
> > * microtonal accidentals
> > abcm2ps, jcabc2ps, abc2midi (abcMIDI)
> >
> > * tabulatures
> > abctab2ps
> >
> > * guitar chords diagrams
> > noteedit (abc export: %%postscript for abcm2ps)
> > [I've wrote also a helper resource ("bracinho.fmt"):
> > http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/hfmlacerda/abc/fmt.zip]
> >
> > * Gregorian chant

The whole problem of standards of musical notation software has
exercised my mind considerably over the last couple of weeks.
the things that I think make ABC such a valuable format are the
human-readability, and the simplicity.

It seems to me that at present the field of musical notation
software is becoming more complex every day with innovations like
Enigma Transportable Format, and Music XML but it is also becoming
more complex and less human-readable.

If ABC notation really needs extensions to deal with more complex
notation are there other avenues being explored? for example,
subsets of definitions for accidentals, tablature, grouping of
instruments and staves and inclusion of text elements.

I also have alot of server space. Maybe we can leverage some of that
for the list, because I know the files section that Yahoo provides is
very limited in space.

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005, bramblethorne wrote:

> For this move and for years of hosting and management.   You rock!

Absolutely ! A few mouseclicks, and now I'm writing/reading in abcusers
again. ABC is here to stay !

--

Martin Tarenskeen

Christian M. Cepel wrote:
> I like the image you've chosen for the group site.  Very artsy.


	 Ha.. Ha. I hadn't consciously thought about it being artsy. At the time
I was moving the list over, I was staring at some music here at my desk,
I was looking at a clef and I thought "Why not use a treble clef for the
list?"
	 Did you known the treble clef is supposed to represent the inner ear?
Whereas the bass clef is supposed to represent the outer ear. Pretty
cool, I think.

I like the image you've chosen for the group site.  Very artsy.

Toby Rider wrote:
> If you don't get good response to your message, you may want to try
> reposting in a few days. Alot of people are still signing onto the new
> address.
>
> --- In abcusers@yahoogroups.com, Hudson Lacerda <hfmlacerda@y...> wrote:
>
>>Hello people.
>>
>>(Thanks, Toby, for the new list address!)
>>
>>To restart the abcusers list activity, I would like know about abc
>>applications that implement the "missing features" listed at the end of
>>the "ABC Music standard 2.0 (draft IV, 14/8/2003)":
>>
>><<<<
>>End of draft. Features still missing are, at least: repeated tuplets,
>>octava indications, optional accidentals/slurs, microtonal accidentals,
>>tabulatures, guitar chords diagrams, Gregorian chant, ...
>> >>>>
>><http://abc.sourceforge.net/standard/abc2-draft.html>:
>>
>>* repeated tuplets
>>
>>[A possiblity is to extend the legal L: values, like L:3/8 (dotted
>>quarter), or L:1/8:3:2 (eighth note of a 3:2 tuplet). Is there a better
>>approach?]
>>
>>* octava indications
>>
>>* optional accidentals
>>
>>* optional slurs
>>abcm2ps (dotted slurs/ties)
>>
>>* microtonal accidentals
>>abcm2ps, jcabc2ps, abc2midi (abcMIDI)
>>
>>* tabulatures
>>abctab2ps
>>
>>* guitar chords diagrams
>>noteedit (abc export: %%postscript for abcm2ps)
>>[I've wrote also a helper resource ("bracinho.fmt"):
>>http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/hfmlacerda/abc/fmt.zip]
>>
>>* Gregorian chant
>>Barfly
>>
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Hudson
>>
>>--
>>Hudson Lacerda <http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/hfmlacerda/>
>>*Não deixe seu voto sumir! http://www.votoseguro.org/
>>*Apóie o manifesto! http://www.votoseguro.com/alertaprofessores/
>>*Quem tem medo de GNU/Linux? http://linuxfud.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________________
>>Promoção Yahoo! Acesso Grátis: a cada hora navegada você acumula
>
> cupons e concorre a mais de 500 prêmios! Participe!
> http://yahoo.fbiz.com.br/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
    //Christian

Christian Marcus Cepel            | And the wrens have returned &
christian@... icq:12384980  | are nesting; In the hollow of
371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO     | that oak where his heart once
65203-2202 573.999.2370           | had been; And he lifts up his
Computer Support Specialist, Sr.  | arms in a blessing; For being
University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.    --Rich Mullins

If you don't get good response to your message, you may want to try
reposting in a few days. Alot of people are still signing onto the new
address.

--- In abcusers@yahoogroups.com, Hudson Lacerda <hfmlacerda@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello people.
>
> (Thanks, Toby, for the new list address!)
>
> To restart the abcusers list activity, I would like know about abc
> applications that implement the "missing features" listed at the end of
> the "ABC Music standard 2.0 (draft IV, 14/8/2003)":
>
> <<<<
> End of draft. Features still missing are, at least: repeated tuplets,
> octava indications, optional accidentals/slurs, microtonal accidentals,
> tabulatures, guitar chords diagrams, Gregorian chant, ...
>  >>>>
> <http://abc.sourceforge.net/standard/abc2-draft.html>:
>
> * repeated tuplets
>
> [A possiblity is to extend the legal L: values, like L:3/8 (dotted
> quarter), or L:1/8:3:2 (eighth note of a 3:2 tuplet). Is there a better
> approach?]
>
> * octava indications
>
> * optional accidentals
>
> * optional slurs
> abcm2ps (dotted slurs/ties)
>
> * microtonal accidentals
> abcm2ps, jcabc2ps, abc2midi (abcMIDI)
>
> * tabulatures
> abctab2ps
>
> * guitar chords diagrams
> noteedit (abc export: %%postscript for abcm2ps)
> [I've wrote also a helper resource ("bracinho.fmt"):
> http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/hfmlacerda/abc/fmt.zip]
>
> * Gregorian chant
> Barfly
>
>
> Cheers,
> Hudson
>
> --
> Hudson Lacerda <http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/hfmlacerda/>
> *Não deixe seu voto sumir! http://www.votoseguro.org/
> *Apóie o manifesto! http://www.votoseguro.com/alertaprofessores/
> *Quem tem medo de GNU/Linux? http://linuxfud.org/
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Promoção Yahoo! Acesso Grátis: a cada hora navegada você acumula
cupons e concorre a mais de 500 prêmios! Participe!
http://yahoo.fbiz.com.br/
>

Hello people.

(Thanks, Toby, for the new list address!)

To restart the abcusers list activity, I would like know about abc
applications that implement the "missing features" listed at the end of
the "ABC Music standard 2.0 (draft IV, 14/8/2003)":

<<<<
End of draft. Features still missing are, at least: repeated tuplets,
octava indications, optional accidentals/slurs, microtonal accidentals,
tabulatures, guitar chords diagrams, Gregorian chant, ...
  >>>>
<http://abc.sourceforge.net/standard/abc2-draft.html>:

* repeated tuplets

[A possiblity is to extend the legal L: values, like L:3/8 (dotted
quarter), or L:1/8:3:2 (eighth note of a 3:2 tuplet). Is there a better
approach?]

* octava indications

* optional accidentals

* optional slurs
abcm2ps (dotted slurs/ties)

* microtonal accidentals
abcm2ps, jcabc2ps, abc2midi (abcMIDI)

* tabulatures
abctab2ps

* guitar chords diagrams
noteedit (abc export: %%postscript for abcm2ps)
[I've wrote also a helper resource ("bracinho.fmt"):
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/hfmlacerda/abc/fmt.zip]

* Gregorian chant
Barfly


Cheers,
Hudson

--
Hudson Lacerda <http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/hfmlacerda/>
*Não deixe seu voto sumir! http://www.votoseguro.org/
*Apóie o manifesto! http://www.votoseguro.com/alertaprofessores/
*Quem tem medo de GNU/Linux? http://linuxfud.org/





_______________________________________________________
Promoção Yahoo! Acesso Grátis: a cada hora navegada você acumula cupons e
concorre a mais de 500 prêmios! Participe! http://yahoo.fbiz.com.br/

For this move and for years of hosting and management.   You rock!

Thanks!
   Will you notify people in the uk.music.notation newsgroup that you
took this step?
   They are debating on what's best to suggest you! :)

   Remo D.

--- In abcusers@yahoogroups.com, "Toby Rider" <lists@b...> wrote:
>
> Also, no one will ask me where the archive for the list is any more :-)
>
> --- In abcusers@yahoogroups.com, "Toby Rider" <lists@b...> wrote:
> >
> > I have  the  group settings locked down pretty tight. Also new members
> > have to be approved by either myself or Laura Conrad, in order to get
> > onto the list. So the "shoot & scoot" spammers won't be able to
> > squeeze any through.
> >
> >
>

Also, no one will ask me where the archive for the list is any more :-)

--- In abcusers@yahoogroups.com, "Toby Rider" <lists@b...> wrote:
>
> I have  the  group settings locked down pretty tight. Also new members
> have to be approved by either myself or Laura Conrad, in order to get
> onto the list. So the "shoot & scoot" spammers won't be able to
> squeeze any through.
>
>

I have  the  group settings locked down pretty tight. Also new members
have to be approved by either myself or Laura Conrad, in order to get
onto the list. So the "shoot & scoot" spammers won't be able to
squeeze any through.


--- In abcusers@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Szuhay <jeff@s...> wrote:
>
> Great! Thanks for maklng this switch.
>
> I think we'll get much better anti-spam protection here and
> this is something Yahoo _wants_ to do.
>
>
> --
>     I used to think that the brain was
>     the most wonderful organ in my body.
>     Then I realized who was telling me this.
>      -- Emo Phillips, comedian, actor (1956- )
>