The CS80 used PAT for its keyboard; there wasn't anything special for side to
side motion. The only reason it works like that

with a CS80 is due to how the sensitivity's set; I used to own a CS80 and still
have a CS60.


  Interesting. I guess I will play with the settings for after touch and see if I
can get something closer to what I need. Thanks.

t





-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Wistrand <ewistrand@...>
To: absynth-users <absynth-users@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 10:44 am
Subject: RE: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?



The CS80 used PAT for its keyboard; there wasn't anything special for side to
side motion. The only reason it works like that

with a CS80 is due to how the sensitivity's set; I used to own a CS80 and still
have a CS60.



ew



To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
From: tomluth@...
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:25:06 -0500
Subject: Re: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?








What you're looking for is a controller with polyphonic aftertouch.

Thanks, I do have that, but cannot get the same level of control by pressing
softer and harder, as I believe I might with some sort of side-to-side movement.
I can come somewhat close with a pitch wheel, after bending a note up, and then
adding a wiggle, but not quite. In particular, I find it hard to stay on the
same central pitch with a bent note, but that may just be me. I have even
considered trying to build or adapt a device to do this. Perhaps a way to remove
the stop that most pitch wheels have in them to make it easier to wiggle near
the center. The other option seems to be a midi guitar. However, as there are so
few of them on the market, I suspect there is a good reason few people make
them. Thnaks!

t

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Wistrand <ewistrand@...>
To: absynth-users <absynth-users@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:59 am
Subject: RE: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?

What you're looking for is a controller with polyphonic aftertouch. A lot of the

later Ensoniq keyboards (EPS, VFX, SD1, etc.) had polyphonic aftertouch.

However, very few synths soft or hard respond to PAT- with most, if PAT's
recognized they'll treat it as channel (mono) aftertouch.

ew


To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
From: tomluth@...
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:54:11 -0500
Subject: Re: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?

Okay, a little off-topic, but it involves Absynth, and any other midi controlled

synth: I would love a midi vibrato controller that would respond to a
guitar/violin type finger vibrato. The bend wheels tend to be self-centering,
and are difficult, at least for me, to emulate a good guitar vibrato. I would
love to be able to add a nice Paul Kossoff vibrato and guitar-like bends to my
playing; does anyone know of a controller that might work for this? There was a
synth many years back (was it the CS80?) that allowed the player to move the
keys much like one would a guitar to produce a human sounding vibrato, not
dependent of an LFO. Yes, found a clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoEkyBX7qsg

Would love to get this level of control, short of buying a vintage CS80. Thanks
much!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

--------------------Absynth Users
Links----------------------------------------------------------
Absynth user patches: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users/files/
Message archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users
Unsubscribe: mail to absynth-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
----------------------------------------------------------Yahoo!
Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

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Links------------------------------------------------------------
Absynth user patches: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users/files/
Message archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users
Unsubscribe: mail to absynth-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Occasionally I write music reviews, and a while back I wrote about a Richard
Lainhart album entitled The Beautiful Blue Sky, which he played in realtime
using a Haken Continuum Fingerboard.  My only experience with this instrument is
the music on this album, but it sounds like it might be able to do what you
want.  You can read my review at http://www.furthernoise.org/page.php?ID=262,
and check out the musical example for the track Lines in Sand.  Lainhart used a
Buchla synthesizer for sound generation, but I see from the Haken specs that it
is also a midi controller.  The review has a link to Haken Audio's site.

---
Caleb Deupree
ctdeupree@...
http://classicaldrone.blogspot.com


On Nov 22, 2009, at 10:54 AM, tomluth@... wrote:

> I would love a midi vibrato controller that would respond to a guitar/violin
type finger vibrato.

Hi Tom and Eric,

>
> The CS80 used PAT for its keyboard; there wasn't anything special for side to
side motion. The only reason it works like that with a CS80 is due to how the
sensitivity's set;

Maybe a CS80-style pitch ribbon controller would be what tom's looking for.
Side-to-side makes sense, I never cared much for pitch bend wheels.

The most expressive and precise pitch controller I know of is the ondes
martenot. Not much help of course, but it would be nice if there were a modern
controller version of the ondes.


> I used to own a CS80 and still have a CS60.
>

Don't the oscillators need to be individually tuned about once a week? I used to
have access to a CS60, it was lots of fun.

Cheers,
Brian



>
>
> ew
>
>
>
> To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
> From: tomluth@...
> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:25:06 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> What you're looking for is a controller with polyphonic aftertouch.
>
> Thanks, I do have that, but cannot get the same level of control by pressing
softer and harder, as I believe I might with some sort of side-to-side movement.
I can come somewhat close with a pitch wheel, after bending a note up, and then
adding a wiggle, but not quite. In particular, I find it hard to stay on the
same central pitch with a bent note, but that may just be me. I have even
considered trying to build or adapt a device to do this. Perhaps a way to remove
the stop that most pitch wheels have in them to make it easier to wiggle near
the center. The other option seems to be a midi guitar. However, as there are so
few of them on the market, I suspect there is a good reason few people make
them. Thnaks!
>
> t
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Wistrand <ewistrand@...>
> To: absynth-users <absynth-users@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:59 am
> Subject: RE: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?
>
> What you're looking for is a controller with polyphonic aftertouch. A lot of
the
> later Ensoniq keyboards (EPS, VFX, SD1, etc.) had polyphonic aftertouch.
>
> However, very few synths soft or hard respond to PAT- with most, if PAT's
> recognized they'll treat it as channel (mono) aftertouch.
>
> ew
>
>
> To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
> From: tomluth@...
> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:54:11 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?
>
> Okay, a little off-topic, but it involves Absynth, and any other midi
controlled
> synth: I would love a midi vibrato controller that would respond to a
> guitar/violin type finger vibrato. The bend wheels tend to be self-centering,
> and are difficult, at least for me, to emulate a good guitar vibrato. I would
> love to be able to add a nice Paul Kossoff vibrato and guitar-like bends to my
> playing; does anyone know of a controller that might work for this? There was
a
> synth many years back (was it the CS80?) that allowed the player to move the
> keys much like one would a guitar to produce a human sounding vibrato, not
> dependent of an LFO. Yes, found a clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoEkyBX7qsg
> Would love to get this level of control, short of buying a vintage CS80.
Thanks
> much!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --------------------Absynth Users
Links----------------------------------------------------------
> Absynth user patches: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users/files/
> Message archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users
> Unsubscribe: mail to absynth-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --------------------Absynth Users
Links------------------------------------------------------------
> Absynth user patches: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users/files/
> Message archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users
> Unsubscribe: mail to absynth-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-------------------------Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Hi Brian,



I'd love to see a pitch ribbon like the old CS's; the only one I knew of that
came close

was on the old Kurzweil MIDIboard. The cool thing about the CS's is that
wherever you

put your finger becomes the midpoint, and you can do hammerons/trills above or
below

that point by keeping the first finger in contact with the ribbon. It's a great
way to emulate

a lot of guitar techinques.



About the tuning; the CS60 isn't quite as sensitive as a CS80 is in that regard;
there's more space for cooling.

As long as you 1) don't move it and 2) keep it powered up, a CS stays pretty
stable as far as tuning goes. Temperature

variations and jarringg the trimpots while transporting were the causes of the
CS's (well deserved) reputation for going

out of tune.



ew



To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
From: brian@...
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:28:21 +0100
Subject: Re: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?





Hi Tom and Eric,

>
> The CS80 used PAT for its keyboard; there wasn't anything special for side to
side motion. The only reason it works like that with a CS80 is due to how the
sensitivity's set;

Maybe a CS80-style pitch ribbon controller would be what tom's looking for.
Side-to-side makes sense, I never cared much for pitch bend wheels.

The most expressive and precise pitch controller I know of is the ondes
martenot. Not much help of course, but it would be nice if there were a modern
controller version of the ondes.

> I used to own a CS80 and still have a CS60.
>

Don't the oscillators need to be individually tuned about once a week? I used to
have access to a CS60, it was lots of fun.

Cheers,
Brian

>
>
> ew
>
>
>
> To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
> From: tomluth@...
> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:25:06 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> What you're looking for is a controller with polyphonic aftertouch.
>
> Thanks, I do have that, but cannot get the same level of control by pressing
softer and harder, as I believe I might with some sort of side-to-side movement.
I can come somewhat close with a pitch wheel, after bending a note up, and then
adding a wiggle, but not quite. In particular, I find it hard to stay on the
same central pitch with a bent note, but that may just be me. I have even
considered trying to build or adapt a device to do this. Perhaps a way to remove
the stop that most pitch wheels have in them to make it easier to wiggle near
the center. The other option seems to be a midi guitar. However, as there are so
few of them on the market, I suspect there is a good reason few people make
them. Thnaks!
>
> t
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Wistrand <ewistrand@...>
> To: absynth-users <absynth-users@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:59 am
> Subject: RE: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?
>
> What you're looking for is a controller with polyphonic aftertouch. A lot of
the
> later Ensoniq keyboards (EPS, VFX, SD1, etc.) had polyphonic aftertouch.
>
> However, very few synths soft or hard respond to PAT- with most, if PAT's
> recognized they'll treat it as channel (mono) aftertouch.
>
> ew
>
>
> To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
> From: tomluth@...
> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:54:11 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?
>
> Okay, a little off-topic, but it involves Absynth, and any other midi
controlled
> synth: I would love a midi vibrato controller that would respond to a
> guitar/violin type finger vibrato. The bend wheels tend to be self-centering,
> and are difficult, at least for me, to emulate a good guitar vibrato. I would
> love to be able to add a nice Paul Kossoff vibrato and guitar-like bends to my
> playing; does anyone know of a controller that might work for this? There was
a
> synth many years back (was it the CS80?) that allowed the player to move the
> keys much like one would a guitar to produce a human sounding vibrato, not
> dependent of an LFO. Yes, found a clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoEkyBX7qsg
> Would love to get this level of control, short of buying a vintage CS80.
Thanks
> much!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --------------------Absynth Users
Links----------------------------------------------------------
> Absynth user patches: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users/files/
> Message archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users
> Unsubscribe: mail to absynth-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --------------------Absynth Users
Links----------------------------------------------------------
> Absynth user patches: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users/files/
> Message archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users
> Unsubscribe: mail to absynth-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Hi Brian,
>
>
>
> I'd love to see a pitch ribbon like the old CS's; the only one I knew of that
came close
>
> was on the old Kurzweil MIDIboard. The cool thing about the CS's is that
wherever you
>
> put your finger becomes the midpoint, and you can do hammerons/trills above or
below
>
> that point by keeping the first finger in contact with the ribbon. It's a
great way to emulate
>
> a lot of guitar techinques.

I found this, looks quite nice, but I don't know if it does the CS80-style
ribbon thing:
http://www.analoguehaven.com/doepfer/r2m/


(From Caleb's post):
>
> Occasionally I write music reviews, and a while back I wrote about a Richard
Lainhart album entitled The Beautiful Blue Sky, which he played in realtime
using a Haken Continuum Fingerboard.  My only experience with this instrument is
the music on this album, but it sounds like it might be able to do what you
want.  You can read my review at http://www.furthernoise.org/page.php?ID=262,
and check out the musical example for the track Lines in Sand.  Lainhart used a
Buchla synthesizer for sound generation, but I see from the Haken specs that it
is also a midi controller.  The review has a link to Haken Audio's site.

That looks quite amazing, but it's expensive...

Cheers,
Brian

I found a few videos online for the Hakem Fingerboard. Impressive, and does
exhibit the sort of control I am after. The price is a bit out of line with what
I am looking for, unfortunately. I'll spend some time messing with my current
gear to see what options I have, such as adjusting aftertouch, etc. Also, the
possibility of modifying/replacing the pitch wheel may be an option. Thanks all!

t





-----Original Message-----
From: Caleb Deupree <ctdeupree@...>
To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
Cc: tomluth@...
Sent: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 11:27 am
Subject: Re: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?





Occasionally I write music reviews, and a while back I wrote about a Richard
Lainhart album entitled The Beautiful Blue Sky, which he played in realtime
using a Haken Continuum Fingerboard.  My only experience with this instrument is
the music on this album, but it sounds like it might be able to do what you
want.  You can read my review at http://www.furthernoise.org/page.php?ID=262,
and check out the musical example for the track Lines in Sand.  Lainhart used a
Buchla synthesizer for sound generation, but I see from the Haken specs that it
is also a midi controller.  The review has a link to Haken Audio's site.

---
Caleb Deupree
ctdeupree@...
http://classicaldrone.blogspot.com

On Nov 22, 2009, at 10:54 AM, tomluth@... wrote:

> I would love a midi vibrato controller that would respond to a guitar/violin
type finger vibrato.









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi...I just joined and I'm trying to download some of the absynth banks, but I
get a "Requested Document Is Not Accessible" error message for pretty much every
link I try. Am I missing something or are most of the links broken?

Maybe you can try a Clavia synth (nord lead, nord wave, nord modular G2).
They have got a pitch stick that have no dead pitch center, the pitch is
very directly controlled by them. I can make very expressive vibrato's with
that stick, much better than a pitch wheel or Roland bender.

Grtz Wan

2009/11/22 <tomluth@...>

>
>
>
>
>
> What you're looking for is a controller with polyphonic aftertouch.
>
> Thanks, I do have that, but cannot get the same level of control by
> pressing softer and harder, as I believe I might with some sort of
> side-to-side movement. I can come somewhat close with a pitch wheel, after
> bending a note up, and then adding a wiggle, but not quite. In particular, I
> find it hard to stay on the same central pitch with a bent note, but that
> may just be me. I have even considered trying to build or adapt a device to
> do this. Perhaps a way to remove the stop that most pitch wheels have in
> them to make it easier to wiggle near the center. The other option seems to
> be a midi guitar. However, as there are so few of them on the market, I
> suspect there is a good reason few people make them. Thnaks!
>
> t
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Wistrand <ewistrand@... <ewistrand%40msn.com>>
> To: absynth-users
<absynth-users@yahoogroups.com<absynth-users%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> Sent: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:59 am
> Subject: RE: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?
>
> What you're looking for is a controller with polyphonic aftertouch. A lot
> of the
> later Ensoniq keyboards (EPS, VFX, SD1, etc.) had polyphonic aftertouch.
>
> However, very few synths soft or hard respond to PAT- with most, if PAT's
> recognized they'll treat it as channel (mono) aftertouch.
>
> ew
>
>
> To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com <absynth-users%40yahoogroups.com>
> From: tomluth@... <tomluth%40aol.com>
> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:54:11 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?
>
> Okay, a little off-topic, but it involves Absynth, and any other midi
> controlled
> synth: I would love a midi vibrato controller that would respond to a
> guitar/violin type finger vibrato. The bend wheels tend to be
> self-centering,
> and are difficult, at least for me, to emulate a good guitar vibrato. I
> would
> love to be able to add a nice Paul Kossoff vibrato and guitar-like bends to
> my
> playing; does anyone know of a controller that might work for this? There
> was a
> synth many years back (was it the CS80?) that allowed the player to move
> the
> keys much like one would a guitar to produce a human sounding vibrato, not
> dependent of an LFO. Yes, found a clip:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoEkyBX7qsg
> Would love to get this level of control, short of buying a vintage CS80.
> Thanks
> much!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --------------------Absynth Users
> Links----------------------------------------------------------
> Absynth user patches: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users/files/
> Message archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users
> Unsubscribe: mail to
absynth-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<absynth-users-unsubscribe%40yahoogroup\
s.com>
> ----------------------------------------------------------Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
Grtz Wan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 23 Nov 2009, at 11:07 PM, absynth-users@yahoogroups.com wrote:


>
> Messages in this topic (15)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1d. Re: vibrato midi control?
>     Posted by: "tomluth@..." tomluth@... tomluth
>     Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:54 am ((PST))
>
> Okay, a little off-topic, but it involves Absynth, and any other
> midi controlled synth: I would love a midi vibrato controller that
> would respond to a guitar/violin type finger vibrato. The bend
> wheels tend to be self-centering, and are difficult, at least for
> me, to emulate a good guitar vibrato. I would love to be able to
> add a nice Paul Kossoff vibrato and guitar-like bends to my
> playing; does anyone know of a controller that might work for this?
> There was a synth many years back (was it the CS80?) that allowed
> the player to move the keys much like one would a guitar to produce
> a human sounding vibrato, not dependent of an LFO. Yes, found a
> clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoEkyBX7qsg  Would love to get
> this level of control, short of buying a vintage CS80. Thanks much!
>
>

I have CS80, keys are not moving side to side. (Ondes Martenot has
keyboard which moves sideways, sometimes I perform with a friend who
plays Ondes.) Right answer is a ribbon controller. Also some other
historical electronic instruments used fingerboard, like Mixtur
Trautonium or Sonar.

Moog had a big ribbon controller, and small one was was also on some
later Moog instruments - Polymoog Synthesizer, Polymoog Keyboard,
Multimoog, Micromoog, Yamaha analog organ YC30, YC45D.

Some digital instruments - Yamaha AN1x, EX5, EX7...,  Korg Z1 has big
touchpad, Prophecy has a movable centered cylindric controller with
ribbon sensor... I really love Korg KaosPad which has big touchpad,
some programs use it for pitch control.

Kurzweil ribbon controller was very good, for use with some Kurzweil
instruments there's an additional PC2SRIB Super Ribbon Controller.
What more - they produced it also as a stand-alone MIDI controller -
ExpressionMate (ribbon + controller box). As a happy owner I can only
recommend this.

Doepfer has also excellent one, see here http://www.doepfer.de/a198.htm

My friend Yuichi Onoue works a lot with hand-made ribbon controllers
- see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL0aE3t8ftk or here http://
www.myspace.com/yuichionoue, where is a link to his personal page.

Daniel Forro

Thanks. I guess I presumed the CS80 used a side-to-side vibrato watching the
Vangelis video clip. Evidently, the keys are picking up up-and-down pressure
changes in the side-to-side movements to some degree. I spent an hour or so
trying this with my own keyboard, and it does work to some degree. Presumably a
matter of practice. Ribbon controllers are great (had them back in college in
the 70s) and the fingerboard looks fantastic. Too bad it costs as much as my
entire set up. LOve the Trautonium; would love to see one in person. Oscar
Sala's work is amongst my favorite electronic music. Some of the other
controllers are intriguing; looks like I need to spend an afternoon at the music
store. I've seen the Kaos Pad in performance, I should check into these. I have
also seen some DIY tips for building a ribbon controller I may experiment with.
Many good tips. Thanks much!

t





-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Forro <dan.for@...>
To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 7:34 am
Subject: [Absynth] Digest Number 2487





On 23 Nov 2009, at 11:07 PM, absynth-users@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
> Messages in this topic (15)
> __________________________________________________________
> __
> 1d. Re: vibrato midi control?
>     Posted by: "tomluth@..." tomluth@... tomluth
>     Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:54 am ((PST))
>
> Okay, a little off-topic, but it involves Absynth, and any other
> midi controlled synth: I would love a midi vibrato controller that
> would respond to a guitar/violin type finger vibrato. The bend
> wheels tend to be self-centering, and are difficult, at least for
> me, to emulate a good guitar vibrato. I would love to be able to
> add a nice Paul Kossoff vibrato and guitar-like bends to my
> playing; does anyone know of a controller that might work for this?
> There was a synth many years back (was it the CS80?) that allowed
> the player to move the keys much like one would a guitar to produce
> a human sounding vibrato, not dependent of an LFO. Yes, found a
> clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoEkyBX7qsg  Would love to get
> this level of control, short of buying a vintage CS80. Thanks much!
>
>

I have CS80, keys are not moving side to side. (Ondes Martenot has
keyboard which moves sideways, sometimes I perform with a friend who
plays Ondes.) Right answer is a ribbon controller. Also some other
historical electronic instruments used fingerboard, like Mixtur
Trautonium or Sonar.

Moog had a big ribbon controller, and small one was was also on some
later Moog instruments - Polymoog Synthesizer, Polymoog Keyboard,
Multimoog, Micromoog, Yamaha analog organ YC30, YC45D.

Some digital instruments - Yamaha AN1x, EX5, EX7...,  Korg Z1 has big
touchpad, Prophecy has a movable centered cylindric controller with
ribbon sensor... I really love Korg KaosPad which has big touchpad,
some programs use it for pitch control.

Kurzweil ribbon controller was very good, for use with some Kurzweil
instruments there's an additional PC2SRIB Super Ribbon Controller.
What more - they produced it also as a stand-alone MIDI controller -
ExpressionMate (ribbon + controller box). As a happy owner I can only
recommend this.

Doepfer has also excellent one, see here http://www.doepfer.de/a198.htm

My friend Yuichi Onoue works a lot with hand-made ribbon controllers
- see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL0aE3t8ftk or here http://
www.myspace.com/yuichionoue, where is a link to his personal page.

Daniel Forro









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Guitar controllers and more:

http://www.starrlabs.com/

Be well, do good work & keep in touch,
Craig
http://web.me.com/whiteroserecording/WRS

On Nov 22, 2009, at 12:25 PM, tomluth@... wrote:

>
>
>
>
> What you're looking for is a controller with polyphonic aftertouch.
>
> Thanks, I do have that, but cannot get the same level of control by pressing
softer and harder, as I believe I might with some sort of side-to-side movement.
I can come somewhat close with a pitch wheel, after bending a note up, and then
adding a wiggle, but not quite. In particular, I find it hard to stay on the
same central pitch with a bent note, but that may just be me. I have even
considered trying to build or adapt a device to do this. Perhaps a way to remove
the stop that most pitch wheels have in them to make it easier to wiggle near
the center. The other option seems to be a midi guitar. However, as there are so
few of them on the market, I suspect there is a good reason few people make
them. Thnaks!
>
> t
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Wistrand <ewistrand@...>
> To: absynth-users <absynth-users@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 9:59 am
> Subject: RE: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?
>
>
>
> What you're looking for is a controller with polyphonic aftertouch. A lot of
the
> later Ensoniq keyboards (EPS, VFX, SD1, etc.) had polyphonic aftertouch.
>
> However, very few synths soft or hard respond to PAT- with most, if PAT's
> recognized they'll treat it as channel (mono) aftertouch.
>
>
>
> ew
>
>
>
> To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
> From: tomluth@...
> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:54:11 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Absynth] vibrato midi control?
>
>
>
>
>
> Okay, a little off-topic, but it involves Absynth, and any other midi
controlled
> synth: I would love a midi vibrato controller that would respond to a
> guitar/violin type finger vibrato. The bend wheels tend to be self-centering,
> and are difficult, at least for me, to emulate a good guitar vibrato. I would
> love to be able to add a nice Paul Kossoff vibrato and guitar-like bends to my
> playing; does anyone know of a controller that might work for this? There was
a
> synth many years back (was it the CS80?) that allowed the player to move the
> keys much like one would a guitar to produce a human sounding vibrato, not
> dependent of an LFO. Yes, found a clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoEkyBX7qsg
> Would love to get this level of control, short of buying a vintage CS80.
Thanks
> much!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --------------------Absynth Users
Links------------------------------------------------------------
> Absynth user patches: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users/files/
> Message archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users
> Unsubscribe: mail to absynth-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-------------------------Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --------------------Absynth Users
Links------------------------------------------------------------
> Absynth user patches: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users/files/
> Message archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users
> Unsubscribe: mail to absynth-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-------------------------Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I guess the whole funny thing about pitch and timbre is that timbre in terms of
the movement of partials is in my option a misnomer.  The mathematical basis for
FFTs which are used to create frequency spectrums are static.  The concept of
pitch as the frequency of the fundamental is problematic but that is a whole lot
of mathematics that would be difficult to get into.  However, pitch is
percieved.

Timbre is percieved but mostly percieve in the attack phase of a note where the
spectrum of a sound is less than clear.  As you move to smaller and smaller time
frames the relationship between the pitch of any partial and the timbe (dynamic)
becomes a bit cloudy and this cloudness is in fact built right into the
mathematics.

--- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, "ashtangakasha" <a@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> This is an interesting question, although at first the answer is pretty
simple.
>
> Unless you want to get into the syntactic distinction between "sound" and
"heard sound" (which I see by your other reply you do), we can at least
temporarily take "sound" as a catch-all term for the pattern of radiating
density waves produced by a physical event. Psychologically, sure, if you're not
listening, or deaf, or not there, or overshadowed by something else (like
absinth), then you'll miss the vibes, but they're still there.
>
> So, looking at the vibes, or sound, we can define timbre as the history of
that sound's partials, and we can define pitch as the frequency of that sound's
fundamental or most noticeable partial.
>
> Unfortunately, pitch doesn't even apply to innumerable sounds that are
nonetheless recognizable. White noise is the most obvious example. It has a most
distinctive timbre, while it has no pitch at all. Or all pitches, if you prefer,
which is equally meaningless.
>
> So, to answer your question, there is no essential relationship between pitch
and timbre. There is, however, a relationship between our ability to perceive
pitch and our ability to perceive timbre. But you didn't ask about that.
>
> Allen
>
>
>
> --- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, "lux_seeker" <Lux_Seeker@> wrote:
> >
> > What is the relationship between pitch and timbre? - a bit more complicated
a question then one might think.
> >
>

>
>  Am I missing something or are most of the links broken?
>

I was just able to download a bunch of files a minute ago.

Perception of timbre is what made the Roland D50 possible.

In those days memory was still too expensive to use large samples so the D50 had
samples of just instrument attacks and synthesized the sustain and release
phases. It's fascinating how our brains interpret sounds and how easily our
perceptions can be fooled.

Today memory is cheap enough to use much longer loops and as a result the
realism of sampled sounds has greatly improved.

unless of course, realism is *not* what you are looking for... the
history of electronic musical instruments is populated with devices
which were appropriated to create sounds that are not possible with
analog ('real') devices... which is why a lot of us love Absynth so
much : )

On Nov 25, 2009, at 10:26 AM, meatballfulton wrote:

> Today memory is cheap enough to use much longer loops and as a
> result the realism of sampled sounds has greatly improved.

Eddie Sullivan
Sales Consultant
IMS Pro A/V
The Stony Brook Technology Center
21 Technology Drive
E. Setauket NY 11733
Toll Free- 1800 344 6434
office- 631 751 3583
fax-1 631 751 4552
esullivan@...







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

unless of course, realism is *not* what you are looking for...

  I view the idea of emulating real instruments pretty much a learning exercise,
much like student painters copying from the masters. It is a good learning tool
to start by trying to copy the sound of a violin, or a flute, or a piano, to
analyze the qualities of a sound, and to construct that sound via oscillators
and filters, etc. Also helps to establish a language for communicating abstract
sounds, such as "it has a violin-like attack, but the timbre of a nasal
piano..." and eventually leads to intangible qualities through skilled
experimentation.

t





-----Original Message-----
From: Eddie Sullivan <esullivan@...>
To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 7:39 am
Subject: Re: [Absynth] Re: Questions, questions





unless of course, realism is *not* what you are looking for... the
history of electronic musical instruments is populated with devices
which were appropriated to create sounds that are not possible with
analog ('real') devices... which is why a lot of us love Absynth so
much : )

On Nov 25, 2009, at 10:26 AM, meatballfulton wrote:

> Today memory is cheap enough to use much longer loops and as a
> result the realism of sampled sounds has greatly improved.

Eddie Sullivan
Sales Consultant
IMS Pro A/V
The Stony Brook Technology Center
21 Technology Drive
E. Setauket NY 11733
Toll Free- 1800 344 6434
office- 631 751 3583
fax-1 631 751 4552
esullivan@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As I said in my opening para, "...unless you want to get into the syntactic...."

In other words, one can define "pitch" subjectively or physically -- as "an
inner experience or perception," or as "a property of a given pattern of
pressure waves propogating in an elastic medium."

To understand what we're discussing, we have to stick to one definition at a
time.

PERCEPTION of pitch occurs in the brain, not the cochlea, so it depends on a
vast instrumentation with many components, most of which are barely understood
or still unknown to science.

For example, even the speech center, which responds to pitch in very different
ways from the regions associated with music, has its own pre-processor that
drastically changes our perception based on its preliminary analysis of the
sound.

This pre-speech component actually turns the speech center on and off -- on the
basis of whether an incoming signal is "possibly speech." Probably this
component evolved because the speech center is such a huge resource hog, the the
biology is avoiding unnecessary energy usage and distraction of attention.

I can play a recording that will universally be recognized as "not speech" by a
large roomful of people (I love doing that...). Then, after telling them what
the recording "says" (in an unusually distorted way), the next time they hear
the sound, the speech-center pre-processor turns on the speech center, and now
they CAN hear what the recording is saying. From that point on, their
pre-processor has learned that it IS speech and now always activates the speech
center. As a result, they can no longer hear it as "not speech."

Perception of music, even lyrics, is quite different, and takes place in
numerous locations throughout the brain, and is affected by both learning and by
this spectacularly elaborate physiology.

Perception of speech, music, and all other sound, is also affected by
mathematically describable interactions of frequencies with the cilia in the
cochlea, the resonances of the eardrum and the membrane to which the stirrup is
attached, the viscosity of the cochlear fluid, and many other factors (ear canal
geometry, shape of pinnae, etc.).

But this math is not the math of musical notes per se -- it's the math of
volumetric acoustics and involves near-quantum mechanisms (such as the
bio-amplification achieved by micro-cilia on the ends of the cilia).

More importantly, virtually no math is available to describe how the interaction
of various brain-regions produces an experience of music.

So the fuzziness you're experiencing in trying to apply math to the subjective
perception of sound is quite understandable. The math isn't even available,
since the full physiological mechanism hasn't even been fathomed.

However, from a purely physical point of view, outside the sensory apparatus and
nervous system, timbre actually IS the history of partials. Whatever waveform a
sound may have, any sound of any duration, it can be described as a list of
amplitude values (digitalization), or as a list of sets of partials (FFT). This
isn't a matter of conjecture; it's well established both theoretically and
empirically, not by some mathematician making assumptions.

As soon as we start experiencing the sound in our minds, however, then it's not
a purely physical vibration outside the body -- that vibration is an input to a
complex system that is responding to numerous OTHER inputs and generating a
subjective experience for an observer whom we don't even know how to define.


Allen



--- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, "lux_seeker" <Lux_Seeker@...> wrote:
>
> I guess the whole funny thing about pitch and timbre is that timbre in terms
of the movement of partials is in my option a misnomer.  The mathematical basis
for FFTs which are used to create frequency spectrums are static.  The concept
of pitch as the frequency of the fundamental is problematic but that is a whole
lot of mathematics that would be difficult to get into.  However, pitch is
percieved.
>
> Timbre is percieved but mostly percieve in the attack phase of a note where
the spectrum of a sound is less than clear.  As you move to smaller and smaller
time frames the relationship between the pitch of any partial and the timbe
(dynamic) becomes a bit cloudy and this cloudness is in fact built right into
the mathematics.
>
> --- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, "ashtangakasha" <a@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This is an interesting question, although at first the answer is pretty
simple.
> >
> > Unless you want to get into the syntactic distinction between "sound" and
"heard sound" (which I see by your other reply you do), we can at least
temporarily take "sound" as a catch-all term for the pattern of radiating
density waves produced by a physical event. Psychologically, sure, if you're not
listening, or deaf, or not there, or overshadowed by something else (like
absinth), then you'll miss the vibes, but they're still there.
> >
> > So, looking at the vibes, or sound, we can define timbre as the history of
that sound's partials, and we can define pitch as the frequency of that sound's
fundamental or most noticeable partial.
> >
> > Unfortunately, pitch doesn't even apply to innumerable sounds that are
nonetheless recognizable. White noise is the most obvious example. It has a most
distinctive timbre, while it has no pitch at all. Or all pitches, if you prefer,
which is equally meaningless.
> >
> > So, to answer your question, there is no essential relationship between
pitch and timbre. There is, however, a relationship between our ability to
perceive pitch and our ability to perceive timbre. But you didn't ask about
that.
> >
> > Allen
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, "lux_seeker" <Lux_Seeker@> wrote:
> > >
> > > What is the relationship between pitch and timbre? - a bit more
complicated a question then one might think.
> > >
> >
>

I've always wanted a sideways aftertouch sensor -- for note-based expression it
seems more intuitive to me than channel-pressure aftertouch. I can see pressing
on the keyboard as a crude alternative to a knee-bar or spring-return pedal, but
when you're playing like a sax or guitar player, it's so natural to move one or
more fingers from side to side.

On my venerable Korg Wavestation (which has a really fine tenor sax sample), I
used to use side-to-side motion to control aftertouch for vibrato. It wasn't
note-based, of course, and it was just pressure, but it felt natural and real,
and since I was playing a sax there weren't multiple simultaneous keys involved
anyway.

The Wavestation had a particularly usable channel aftertouch, at least for my
playing style. Other keyboards, even with sensitivity adjustments, don't seem to
work that well for me. Some keyboards (like the Wavestation) provide a subtle
"give" when you press further; others (Studiologic/Fatar) are rock hard when the
key bottoms; still others are just mushy.

But if you'd seen a video of me playing this Wavestation, it would certainly
have looked like I was using some kind of side-to-side expression mechanism.

Allen




--- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, tomluth@... wrote:
>
>
>  Thanks. I guess I presumed the CS80 used a side-to-side vibrato watching the
Vangelis video clip. Evidently, the keys are picking up up-and-down pressure
changes in the side-to-side movements to some degree. I spent an hour or so
trying this with my own keyboard, and it does work to some degree. Presumably a
matter of practice. Ribbon controllers are great (had them back in college in
the 70s) and the fingerboard looks fantastic. Too bad it costs as much as my
entire set up. LOve the Trautonium; would love to see one in person. Oscar
Sala's work is amongst my favorite electronic music. Some of the other
controllers are intriguing; looks like I need to spend an afternoon at the music
store. I've seen the Kaos Pad in performance, I should check into these. I have
also seen some DIY tips for building a ribbon controller I may experiment with.
Many good tips. Thanks much!
>
> t
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Forro <dan.for@...>
> To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 7:34 am
> Subject: [Absynth] Digest Number 2487
>
>
>
>
>
> On 23 Nov 2009, at 11:07 PM, absynth-users@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Messages in this topic (15)
> > __________________________________________________________
> > __
> > 1d. Re: vibrato midi control?
> >     Posted by: "tomluth@..." tomluth@... tomluth
> >     Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:54 am ((PST))
> >
> > Okay, a little off-topic, but it involves Absynth, and any other
> > midi controlled synth: I would love a midi vibrato controller that
> > would respond to a guitar/violin type finger vibrato. The bend
> > wheels tend to be self-centering, and are difficult, at least for
> > me, to emulate a good guitar vibrato. I would love to be able to
> > add a nice Paul Kossoff vibrato and guitar-like bends to my
> > playing; does anyone know of a controller that might work for this?
> > There was a synth many years back (was it the CS80?) that allowed
> > the player to move the keys much like one would a guitar to produce
> > a human sounding vibrato, not dependent of an LFO. Yes, found a
> > clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoEkyBX7qsg  Would love to get
> > this level of control, short of buying a vintage CS80. Thanks much!
> >
> >
>
> I have CS80, keys are not moving side to side. (Ondes Martenot has
> keyboard which moves sideways, sometimes I perform with a friend who
> plays Ondes.) Right answer is a ribbon controller. Also some other
> historical electronic instruments used fingerboard, like Mixtur
> Trautonium or Sonar.
>
> Moog had a big ribbon controller, and small one was was also on some
> later Moog instruments - Polymoog Synthesizer, Polymoog Keyboard,
> Multimoog, Micromoog, Yamaha analog organ YC30, YC45D.
>
> Some digital instruments - Yamaha AN1x, EX5, EX7...,  Korg Z1 has big
> touchpad, Prophecy has a movable centered cylindric controller with
> ribbon sensor... I really love Korg KaosPad which has big touchpad,
> some programs use it for pitch control.
>
> Kurzweil ribbon controller was very good, for use with some Kurzweil
> instruments there's an additional PC2SRIB Super Ribbon Controller.
> What more - they produced it also as a stand-alone MIDI controller -
> ExpressionMate (ribbon + controller box). As a happy owner I can only
> recommend this.
>
> Doepfer has also excellent one, see here http://www.doepfer.de/a198.htm
>
> My friend Yuichi Onoue works a lot with hand-made ribbon controllers
> - see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL0aE3t8ftk or here http://
> www.myspace.com/yuichionoue, where is a link to his personal page.
>
> Daniel Forro
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Pretty sure these are capable of the 'side to side' aftertouch you
refer to:

http://www.eigenlabs.com/store/product/pico/

On Nov 25, 2009, at 12:31 PM, ashtangakasha wrote:

> I've always wanted a sideways aftertouch sensor -- for note-based
> expression it seems more intuitive to me than channel-pressure
> aftertouch. I can see pressing on the keyboard as a crude
> alternative to a knee-bar or spring-return pedal, but when you're
> playing like a sax or guitar player, it's so natural to move one or
> more fingers from side to side.

Eddie Sullivan
Sales Consultant
IMS Pro A/V
The Stony Brook Technology Center
21 Technology Drive
E. Setauket NY 11733
Toll Free- 1800 344 6434
office- 631 751 3583
fax-1 631 751 4552
esullivan@...







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pretty sure these are capable of the 'side to side' aftertouch you
refer to:

http://www.eigenlabs.com/store/product/pico/




  Ah, Very cool. I hadn't seen this smaller version. Pricey, but far more
affordable that he $8k big brother. Some cool videos of the large version on You
Tube.

tl



-----Original Message-----
From: Eddie Sullivan <esullivan@...>
To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 9:52 am
Subject: Re: [Absynth] Digest Number 2487





Pretty sure these are capable of the 'side to side' aftertouch you
refer to:

http://www.eigenlabs.com/store/product/pico/

On Nov 25, 2009, at 12:31 PM, ashtangakasha wrote:

> I've always wanted a sideways aftertouch sensor -- for note-based
> expression it seems more intuitive to me than channel-pressure
> aftertouch. I can see pressing on the keyboard as a crude
> alternative to a knee-bar or spring-return pedal, but when you're
> playing like a sax or guitar player, it's so natural to move one or
> more fingers from side to side.

Eddie Sullivan
Sales Consultant
IMS Pro A/V
The Stony Brook Technology Center
21 Technology Drive
E. Setauket NY 11733
Toll Free- 1800 344 6434
office- 631 751 3583
fax-1 631 751 4552
esullivan@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







=


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Really exciting new synth just announced:

http://www.acesynth.com/

Eddie Sullivan
Sales Consultant
IMS Pro A/V
The Stony Brook Technology Center
21 Technology Drive
E. Setauket NY 11733
Toll Free- 1800 344 6434
office- 631 751 3583
fax-1 631 751 4552
esullivan@...

Allen:

First, let me compliment you on that outstanding post.  Yes, perception of sound
is highly complex and I love the way you bring in the langauge aspect of it.  I
have read a few of Trevor Wisheart's books which talk a lot about this.

Karlheitz Stockhausen talks about how when we hear a sound in changes us and
that is what you are talking about in the experiment.  Music is not a one way
street.  There is this constant feeback loop between us and sound and that is
what fascinates me about it.

As for FFT's.  Yes, within a given window an FFT will produce a set of partials
that will define any static waveform but the key is static.  Fourier never saw
his theory being used for anything dynamic.

I have always loved Luigi Russolo's "Art of Noises" -
http://www.unknown.nu/futurism/noises.html

Not as polished as Stockhausen when he speaks of classifying sound but
interesting considering when it was written.  Both Russolo and Stockhaesen
understood that  we don't really hear partials as much as we hear classes of
sound.  For example, the russle of leaves is different then the sound of a
cricket.  Sound is, like language, percieved by morphology even outside the
language centers of the brain.

If the sound of an instrument is largely determined by the attack transient than
despite Helmholtz claims, we don't hear harmonics we hear morphology, sound
changing over time.

So thats kind of my take on this but I am still learning.  But what I do love
about Absynth is that its one of the best synths if not the best for creating
changing sounds.  One can experiment in so many ways of creating sounds that
challenge all those established pathways int he brain and make synthesis so
interesting.

--- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, "ashtangakasha" <a@...> wrote:
>
> As I said in my opening para, "...unless you want to get into the
syntactic...."
>
> In other words, one can define "pitch" subjectively or physically -- as "an
inner experience or perception," or as "a property of a given pattern of
pressure waves propogating in an elastic medium."
>
> To understand what we're discussing, we have to stick to one definition at a
time.
>
> PERCEPTION of pitch occurs in the brain, not the cochlea, so it depends on a
vast instrumentation with many components, most of which are barely understood
or still unknown to science.
>
> For example, even the speech center, which responds to pitch in very different
ways from the regions associated with music, has its own pre-processor that
drastically changes our perception based on its preliminary analysis of the
sound.
>
> This pre-speech component actually turns the speech center on and off -- on
the basis of whether an incoming signal is "possibly speech." Probably this
component evolved because the speech center is such a huge resource hog, the the
biology is avoiding unnecessary energy usage and distraction of attention.
>
> I can play a recording that will universally be recognized as "not speech" by
a large roomful of people (I love doing that...). Then, after telling them what
the recording "says" (in an unusually distorted way), the next time they hear
the sound, the speech-center pre-processor turns on the speech center, and now
they CAN hear what the recording is saying. From that point on, their
pre-processor has learned that it IS speech and now always activates the speech
center. As a result, they can no longer hear it as "not speech."
>
> Perception of music, even lyrics, is quite different, and takes place in
numerous locations throughout the brain, and is affected by both learning and by
this spectacularly elaborate physiology.
>
> Perception of speech, music, and all other sound, is also affected by
mathematically describable interactions of frequencies with the cilia in the
cochlea, the resonances of the eardrum and the membrane to which the stirrup is
attached, the viscosity of the cochlear fluid, and many other factors (ear canal
geometry, shape of pinnae, etc.).
>
> But this math is not the math of musical notes per se -- it's the math of
volumetric acoustics and involves near-quantum mechanisms (such as the
bio-amplification achieved by micro-cilia on the ends of the cilia).
>
> More importantly, virtually no math is available to describe how the
interaction of various brain-regions produces an experience of music.
>
> So the fuzziness you're experiencing in trying to apply math to the subjective
perception of sound is quite understandable. The math isn't even available,
since the full physiological mechanism hasn't even been fathomed.
>
> However, from a purely physical point of view, outside the sensory apparatus
and nervous system, timbre actually IS the history of partials. Whatever
waveform a sound may have, any sound of any duration, it can be described as a
list of amplitude values (digitalization), or as a list of sets of partials
(FFT). This isn't a matter of conjecture; it's well established both
theoretically and empirically, not by some mathematician making assumptions.
>
> As soon as we start experiencing the sound in our minds, however, then it's
not a purely physical vibration outside the body -- that vibration is an input
to a complex system that is responding to numerous OTHER inputs and generating a
subjective experience for an observer whom we don't even know how to define.
>
>
> Allen
>
>
>
> --- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, "lux_seeker" <Lux_Seeker@> wrote:
> >
> > I guess the whole funny thing about pitch and timbre is that timbre in terms
of the movement of partials is in my option a misnomer.  The mathematical basis
for FFTs which are used to create frequency spectrums are static.  The concept
of pitch as the frequency of the fundamental is problematic but that is a whole
lot of mathematics that would be difficult to get into.  However, pitch is
percieved.
> >
> > Timbre is percieved but mostly percieve in the attack phase of a note where
the spectrum of a sound is less than clear.  As you move to smaller and smaller
time frames the relationship between the pitch of any partial and the timbe
(dynamic) becomes a bit cloudy and this cloudness is in fact built right into
the mathematics.
> >
> > --- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, "ashtangakasha" <a@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This is an interesting question, although at first the answer is pretty
simple.
> > >
> > > Unless you want to get into the syntactic distinction between "sound" and
"heard sound" (which I see by your other reply you do), we can at least
temporarily take "sound" as a catch-all term for the pattern of radiating
density waves produced by a physical event. Psychologically, sure, if you're not
listening, or deaf, or not there, or overshadowed by something else (like
absinth), then you'll miss the vibes, but they're still there.
> > >
> > > So, looking at the vibes, or sound, we can define timbre as the history of
that sound's partials, and we can define pitch as the frequency of that sound's
fundamental or most noticeable partial.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, pitch doesn't even apply to innumerable sounds that are
nonetheless recognizable. White noise is the most obvious example. It has a most
distinctive timbre, while it has no pitch at all. Or all pitches, if you prefer,
which is equally meaningless.
> > >
> > > So, to answer your question, there is no essential relationship between
pitch and timbre. There is, however, a relationship between our ability to
perceive pitch and our ability to perceive timbre. But you didn't ask about
that.
> > >
> > > Allen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, "lux_seeker" <Lux_Seeker@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > What is the relationship between pitch and timbre? - a bit more
complicated a question then one might think.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Perhaps something like this?

http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/Reviews/fconnection_review.htm

Very expensive but I have always been a fan on the Ondes Martenot, a favorite of
Olivier Messiaen who I also like.

But yes, even having simply keyboard with better aftertouch would be a big plus.

--- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, "ashtangakasha" <a@...> wrote:
>
> I've always wanted a sideways aftertouch sensor -- for note-based expression
it seems more intuitive to me than channel-pressure aftertouch. I can see
pressing on the keyboard as a crude alternative to a knee-bar or spring-return
pedal, but when you're playing like a sax or guitar player, it's so natural to
move one or more fingers from side to side.
>
> On my venerable Korg Wavestation (which has a really fine tenor sax sample), I
used to use side-to-side motion to control aftertouch for vibrato. It wasn't
note-based, of course, and it was just pressure, but it felt natural and real,
and since I was playing a sax there weren't multiple simultaneous keys involved
anyway.
>
> The Wavestation had a particularly usable channel aftertouch, at least for my
playing style. Other keyboards, even with sensitivity adjustments, don't seem to
work that well for me. Some keyboards (like the Wavestation) provide a subtle
"give" when you press further; others (Studiologic/Fatar) are rock hard when the
key bottoms; still others are just mushy.
>
> But if you'd seen a video of me playing this Wavestation, it would certainly
have looked like I was using some kind of side-to-side expression mechanism.
>
> Allen
>
>
>
>
> --- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, tomluth@ wrote:
> >
> >
> >  Thanks. I guess I presumed the CS80 used a side-to-side vibrato watching
the Vangelis video clip. Evidently, the keys are picking up up-and-down pressure
changes in the side-to-side movements to some degree. I spent an hour or so
trying this with my own keyboard, and it does work to some degree. Presumably a
matter of practice. Ribbon controllers are great (had them back in college in
the 70s) and the fingerboard looks fantastic. Too bad it costs as much as my
entire set up. LOve the Trautonium; would love to see one in person. Oscar
Sala's work is amongst my favorite electronic music. Some of the other
controllers are intriguing; looks like I need to spend an afternoon at the music
store. I've seen the Kaos Pad in performance, I should check into these. I have
also seen some DIY tips for building a ribbon controller I may experiment with.
Many good tips. Thanks much!
> >
> > t
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Daniel Forro <dan.for@>
> > To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 7:34 am
> > Subject: [Absynth] Digest Number 2487
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 23 Nov 2009, at 11:07 PM, absynth-users@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Messages in this topic (15)
> > > __________________________________________________________
> > > __
> > > 1d. Re: vibrato midi control?
> > >     Posted by: "tomluth@" tomluth@ tomluth
> > >     Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:54 am ((PST))
> > >
> > > Okay, a little off-topic, but it involves Absynth, and any other
> > > midi controlled synth: I would love a midi vibrato controller that
> > > would respond to a guitar/violin type finger vibrato. The bend
> > > wheels tend to be self-centering, and are difficult, at least for
> > > me, to emulate a good guitar vibrato. I would love to be able to
> > > add a nice Paul Kossoff vibrato and guitar-like bends to my
> > > playing; does anyone know of a controller that might work for this?
> > > There was a synth many years back (was it the CS80?) that allowed
> > > the player to move the keys much like one would a guitar to produce
> > > a human sounding vibrato, not dependent of an LFO. Yes, found a
> > > clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoEkyBX7qsg  Would love to get
> > > this level of control, short of buying a vintage CS80. Thanks much!
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I have CS80, keys are not moving side to side. (Ondes Martenot has
> > keyboard which moves sideways, sometimes I perform with a friend who
> > plays Ondes.) Right answer is a ribbon controller. Also some other
> > historical electronic instruments used fingerboard, like Mixtur
> > Trautonium or Sonar.
> >
> > Moog had a big ribbon controller, and small one was was also on some
> > later Moog instruments - Polymoog Synthesizer, Polymoog Keyboard,
> > Multimoog, Micromoog, Yamaha analog organ YC30, YC45D.
> >
> > Some digital instruments - Yamaha AN1x, EX5, EX7...,  Korg Z1 has big
> > touchpad, Prophecy has a movable centered cylindric controller with
> > ribbon sensor... I really love Korg KaosPad which has big touchpad,
> > some programs use it for pitch control.
> >
> > Kurzweil ribbon controller was very good, for use with some Kurzweil
> > instruments there's an additional PC2SRIB Super Ribbon Controller.
> > What more - they produced it also as a stand-alone MIDI controller -
> > ExpressionMate (ribbon + controller box). As a happy owner I can only
> > recommend this.
> >
> > Doepfer has also excellent one, see here http://www.doepfer.de/a198.htm
> >
> > My friend Yuichi Onoue works a lot with hand-made ribbon controllers
> > - see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL0aE3t8ftk or here http://
> > www.myspace.com/yuichionoue, where is a link to his personal page.
> >
> > Daniel Forro
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

I have seen the Eignenlabs demos.  The specs sound great and claim great
sensitivity.  The keys are very small.  I would love to see a demo demonstrating
find control of vibrato but they seem more interested in showing how it can
trigger MIDI samples.  This may be more a weakness in the way Eignelabs is
presenting the product but so far I am not impressed.

--- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, Eddie Sullivan <esullivan@...> wrote:
>
> Pretty sure these are capable of the 'side to side' aftertouch you
> refer to:
>
> http://www.eigenlabs.com/store/product/pico/
>
> On Nov 25, 2009, at 12:31 PM, ashtangakasha wrote:
>
> > I've always wanted a sideways aftertouch sensor -- for note-based
> > expression it seems more intuitive to me than channel-pressure
> > aftertouch. I can see pressing on the keyboard as a crude
> > alternative to a knee-bar or spring-return pedal, but when you're
> > playing like a sax or guitar player, it's so natural to move one or
> > more fingers from side to side.
>
> Eddie Sullivan
> Sales Consultant
> IMS Pro A/V
> The Stony Brook Technology Center
> 21 Technology Drive
> E. Setauket NY 11733
> Toll Free- 1800 344 6434
> office- 631 751 3583
> fax-1 631 751 4552
> esullivan@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Wasn't there a Moog keyboard that had keys that pulled out toward the
player to change pitch or whatever?  Or maybe I remember
incorrectly . . .



On Nov 25, 2009, at 7:24 PM, lux_seeker wrote:

> Perhaps something like this?
>
> http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/Reviews/fconnection_review.htm
>
> Very expensive but I have always been a fan on the Ondes Martenot,
> a favorite of Olivier Messiaen who I also like.
>
> But yes, even having simply keyboard with better aftertouch would
> be a big plus.
>
> --- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, "ashtangakasha" <a@...> wrote:
> >
> > I've always wanted a sideways aftertouch sensor -- for note-based
> expression it seems more intuitive to me than channel-pressure
> aftertouch. I can see pressing on the keyboard as a crude
> alternative to a knee-bar or spring-return pedal, but when you're
> playing like a sax or guitar player, it's so natural to move one or
> more fingers from side to side.
> >
> > On my venerable Korg Wavestation (which has a really fine tenor
> sax sample), I used to use side-to-side motion to control
> aftertouch for vibrato. It wasn't note-based, of course, and it was
> just pressure, but it felt natural and real, and since I was
> playing a sax there weren't multiple simultaneous keys involved
> anyway.
> >
> > The Wavestation had a particularly usable channel aftertouch, at
> least for my playing style. Other keyboards, even with sensitivity
> adjustments, don't seem to work that well for me. Some keyboards
> (like the Wavestation) provide a subtle "give" when you press
> further; others (Studiologic/Fatar) are rock hard when the key
> bottoms; still others are just mushy.
> >
> > But if you'd seen a video of me playing this Wavestation, it
> would certainly have looked like I was using some kind of side-to-
> side expression mechanism.
> >
> > Allen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, tomluth@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks. I guess I presumed the CS80 used a side-to-side vibrato
> watching the Vangelis video clip. Evidently, the keys are picking
> up up-and-down pressure changes in the side-to-side movements to
> some degree. I spent an hour or so trying this with my own
> keyboard, and it does work to some degree. Presumably a matter of
> practice. Ribbon controllers are great (had them back in college in
> the 70s) and the fingerboard looks fantastic. Too bad it costs as
> much as my entire set up. LOve the Trautonium; would love to see
> one in person. Oscar Sala's work is amongst my favorite electronic
> music. Some of the other controllers are intriguing; looks like I
> need to spend an afternoon at the music store. I've seen the Kaos
> Pad in performance, I should check into these. I have also seen
> some DIY tips for building a ribbon controller I may experiment
> with. Many good tips. Thanks much!
> > >
> > > t
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Daniel Forro <dan.for@>
> > > To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 7:34 am
> > > Subject: [Absynth] Digest Number 2487
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 23 Nov 2009, at 11:07 PM, absynth-users@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Messages in this topic (15)
> > > > __________________________________________________________
> > > > __
> > > > 1d. Re: vibrato midi control?
> > > > Posted by: "tomluth@" tomluth@ tomluth
> > > > Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:54 am ((PST))
> > > >
> > > > Okay, a little off-topic, but it involves Absynth, and any other
> > > > midi controlled synth: I would love a midi vibrato controller
> that
> > > > would respond to a guitar/violin type finger vibrato. The bend
> > > > wheels tend to be self-centering, and are difficult, at least
> for
> > > > me, to emulate a good guitar vibrato. I would love to be able to
> > > > add a nice Paul Kossoff vibrato and guitar-like bends to my
> > > > playing; does anyone know of a controller that might work for
> this?
> > > > There was a synth many years back (was it the CS80?) that
> allowed
> > > > the player to move the keys much like one would a guitar to
> produce
> > > > a human sounding vibrato, not dependent of an LFO. Yes, found a
> > > > clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoEkyBX7qsg Would love
> to get
> > > > this level of control, short of buying a vintage CS80. Thanks
> much!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > I have CS80, keys are not moving side to side. (Ondes Martenot has
> > > keyboard which moves sideways, sometimes I perform with a
> friend who
> > > plays Ondes.) Right answer is a ribbon controller. Also some other
> > > historical electronic instruments used fingerboard, like Mixtur
> > > Trautonium or Sonar.
> > >
> > > Moog had a big ribbon controller, and small one was was also on
> some
> > > later Moog instruments - Polymoog Synthesizer, Polymoog Keyboard,
> > > Multimoog, Micromoog, Yamaha analog organ YC30, YC45D.
> > >
> > > Some digital instruments - Yamaha AN1x, EX5, EX7..., Korg Z1
> has big
> > > touchpad, Prophecy has a movable centered cylindric controller
> with
> > > ribbon sensor... I really love Korg KaosPad which has big
> touchpad,
> > > some programs use it for pitch control.
> > >
> > > Kurzweil ribbon controller was very good, for use with some
> Kurzweil
> > > instruments there's an additional PC2SRIB Super Ribbon Controller.
> > > What more - they produced it also as a stand-alone MIDI
> controller -
> > > ExpressionMate (ribbon + controller box). As a happy owner I
> can only
> > > recommend this.
> > >
> > > Doepfer has also excellent one, see here http://www.doepfer.de/
> a198.htm
> > >
> > > My friend Yuichi Onoue works a lot with hand-made ribbon
> controllers
> > > - see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL0aE3t8ftk or here
> http://
> > > www.myspace.com/yuichionoue, where is a link to his personal page.
> > >
> > > Daniel Forro
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree that at some level, learning to emulate natural instruments is a
beneficial stepping off point for other sounds although the quest for complete
realism to me is a pointless quest.  If one wants a perfect emulation, samples
will do this but not allow expression outside of what the samples will allow.

Analogue synths can also emulate intruments. But the sounds that fascinate me
are the ones that the brain can't process because they are in unfamiliar
territory.  An example would be modulating from sub audio to audio.

--- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, tomluth@... wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> unless of course, realism is *not* what you are looking for...
>
>  I view the idea of emulating real instruments pretty much a learning
exercise, much like student painters copying from the masters. It is a good
learning tool to start by trying to copy the sound of a violin, or a flute, or a
piano, to analyze the qualities of a sound, and to construct that sound via
oscillators and filters, etc. Also helps to establish a language for
communicating abstract sounds, such as "it has a violin-like attack, but the
timbre of a nasal piano..." and eventually leads to intangible qualities through
skilled experimentation.
>
> t
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eddie Sullivan <esullivan@...>
> To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 7:39 am
> Subject: Re: [Absynth] Re: Questions, questions
>
>
>
>
>
> unless of course, realism is *not* what you are looking for... the
> history of electronic musical instruments is populated with devices
> which were appropriated to create sounds that are not possible with
> analog ('real') devices... which is why a lot of us love Absynth so
> much : )
>
> On Nov 25, 2009, at 10:26 AM, meatballfulton wrote:
>
> > Today memory is cheap enough to use much longer loops and as a
> > result the realism of sampled sounds has greatly improved.
>
> Eddie Sullivan
> Sales Consultant
> IMS Pro A/V
> The Stony Brook Technology Center
> 21 Technology Drive
> E. Setauket NY 11733
> Toll Free- 1800 344 6434
> office- 631 751 3583
> fax-1 631 751 4552
> esullivan@...
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

How true Eddie.  Absynth moves way outside the natural instrument realm.

--- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, Eddie Sullivan <esullivan@...> wrote:
>
> unless of course, realism is *not* what you are looking for... the
> history of electronic musical instruments is populated with devices
> which were appropriated to create sounds that are not possible with
> analog ('real') devices... which is why a lot of us love Absynth so
> much : )
>
> On Nov 25, 2009, at 10:26 AM, meatballfulton wrote:
>
> > Today memory is cheap enough to use much longer loops and as a
> > result the realism of sampled sounds has greatly improved.
>
> Eddie Sullivan
> Sales Consultant
> IMS Pro A/V
> The Stony Brook Technology Center
> 21 Technology Drive
> E. Setauket NY 11733
> Toll Free- 1800 344 6434
> office- 631 751 3583
> fax-1 631 751 4552
> esullivan@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Yep, it was called the MoogerYanker.  It was stored in rolls and you
just pull out what you need...


On Nov 25, 2009, at 8:47 PM, John McJunkin wrote:

> Wasn't there a Moog keyboard that had keys that pulled out toward the
> player to change pitch or whatever?  Or maybe I remember
> incorrectly . . .
>
>
>
> On Nov 25, 2009, at 7:24 PM, lux_seeker wrote:
>
>> Perhaps something like this?
>>
>> http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/Reviews/fconnection_review.htm
>>
>> Very expensive but I have always been a fan on the Ondes Martenot,
>> a favorite of Olivier Messiaen who I also like.
>>
>> But yes, even having simply keyboard with better aftertouch would
>> be a big plus.
>>
>> --- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, "ashtangakasha" <a@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've always wanted a sideways aftertouch sensor -- for note-based
>> expression it seems more intuitive to me than channel-pressure
>> aftertouch. I can see pressing on the keyboard as a crude
>> alternative to a knee-bar or spring-return pedal, but when you're
>> playing like a sax or guitar player, it's so natural to move one or
>> more fingers from side to side.
>>>
>>> On my venerable Korg Wavestation (which has a really fine tenor
>> sax sample), I used to use side-to-side motion to control
>> aftertouch for vibrato. It wasn't note-based, of course, and it was
>> just pressure, but it felt natural and real, and since I was
>> playing a sax there weren't multiple simultaneous keys involved
>> anyway.
>>>
>>> The Wavestation had a particularly usable channel aftertouch, at
>> least for my playing style. Other keyboards, even with sensitivity
>> adjustments, don't seem to work that well for me. Some keyboards
>> (like the Wavestation) provide a subtle "give" when you press
>> further; others (Studiologic/Fatar) are rock hard when the key
>> bottoms; still others are just mushy.
>>>
>>> But if you'd seen a video of me playing this Wavestation, it
>> would certainly have looked like I was using some kind of side-to-
>> side expression mechanism.
>>>
>>> Allen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In absynth-users@yahoogroups.com, tomluth@ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. I guess I presumed the CS80 used a side-to-side vibrato
>> watching the Vangelis video clip. Evidently, the keys are picking
>> up up-and-down pressure changes in the side-to-side movements to
>> some degree. I spent an hour or so trying this with my own
>> keyboard, and it does work to some degree. Presumably a matter of
>> practice. Ribbon controllers are great (had them back in college in
>> the 70s) and the fingerboard looks fantastic. Too bad it costs as
>> much as my entire set up. LOve the Trautonium; would love to see
>> one in person. Oscar Sala's work is amongst my favorite electronic
>> music. Some of the other controllers are intriguing; looks like I
>> need to spend an afternoon at the music store. I've seen the Kaos
>> Pad in performance, I should check into these. I have also seen
>> some DIY tips for building a ribbon controller I may experiment
>> with. Many good tips. Thanks much!
>>>>
>>>> t
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Daniel Forro <dan.for@>
>>>> To: absynth-users@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Sent: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 7:34 am
>>>> Subject: [Absynth] Digest Number 2487
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 23 Nov 2009, at 11:07 PM, absynth-users@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Messages in this topic (15)
>>>>> __________________________________________________________
>>>>> __
>>>>> 1d. Re: vibrato midi control?
>>>>> Posted by: "tomluth@" tomluth@ tomluth
>>>>> Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:54 am ((PST))
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay, a little off-topic, but it involves Absynth, and any other
>>>>> midi controlled synth: I would love a midi vibrato controller
>> that
>>>>> would respond to a guitar/violin type finger vibrato. The bend
>>>>> wheels tend to be self-centering, and are difficult, at least
>> for
>>>>> me, to emulate a good guitar vibrato. I would love to be able to
>>>>> add a nice Paul Kossoff vibrato and guitar-like bends to my
>>>>> playing; does anyone know of a controller that might work for
>> this?
>>>>> There was a synth many years back (was it the CS80?) that
>> allowed
>>>>> the player to move the keys much like one would a guitar to
>> produce
>>>>> a human sounding vibrato, not dependent of an LFO. Yes, found a
>>>>> clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoEkyBX7qsg Would love
>> to get
>>>>> this level of control, short of buying a vintage CS80. Thanks
>> much!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have CS80, keys are not moving side to side. (Ondes Martenot has
>>>> keyboard which moves sideways, sometimes I perform with a
>> friend who
>>>> plays Ondes.) Right answer is a ribbon controller. Also some other
>>>> historical electronic instruments used fingerboard, like Mixtur
>>>> Trautonium or Sonar.
>>>>
>>>> Moog had a big ribbon controller, and small one was was also on
>> some
>>>> later Moog instruments - Polymoog Synthesizer, Polymoog Keyboard,
>>>> Multimoog, Micromoog, Yamaha analog organ YC30, YC45D.
>>>>
>>>> Some digital instruments - Yamaha AN1x, EX5, EX7..., Korg Z1
>> has big
>>>> touchpad, Prophecy has a movable centered cylindric controller
>> with
>>>> ribbon sensor... I really love Korg KaosPad which has big
>> touchpad,
>>>> some programs use it for pitch control.
>>>>
>>>> Kurzweil ribbon controller was very good, for use with some
>> Kurzweil
>>>> instruments there's an additional PC2SRIB Super Ribbon Controller.
>>>> What more - they produced it also as a stand-alone MIDI
>> controller -
>>>> ExpressionMate (ribbon + controller box). As a happy owner I
>> can only
>>>> recommend this.
>>>>
>>>> Doepfer has also excellent one, see here http://www.doepfer.de/
>> a198.htm
>>>>
>>>> My friend Yuichi Onoue works a lot with hand-made ribbon
>> controllers
>>>> - see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL0aE3t8ftk or here
>> http://
>>>> www.myspace.com/yuichionoue, where is a link to his personal page.
>>>>
>>>> Daniel Forro
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --------------------Absynth Users
> Links------------------------------------------------------------
> Absynth user patches: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users/
> files/
> Message archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/absynth-users
> Unsubscribe: mail to absynth-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------------------------Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

"Until we know what reality actually is, we should not dabble in it!"
-scallion, 2053





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello all. I use Absynth (since V 1) it is my go-to VI and absolute favorite
synth (hardware or software) of all time. I also use Reaktor 5 almost as much,
Kontakt 2 (much less) and many non NI VIs. I can  upgrade to Komplete 6 for not
too much, or just get the Absynth 5 upgrade or none of the above. There is a
good price on Kpmplete 6 till the end of the year. I wonder if anyone might
comment on this upgrade.

  I am torn because my current stable rig is, well stable and for international
gigs this is pretty important! On the other hand I will  upgrade my mac
sometime, maybe next year.  Now here is the silly part but it is quite
compelling to me:

When I got my last new mac it was a NIGHTMARE  getting my existing NI products
to run. The installers I have are very old and there have been many updates
since then but I had to install from the original CDs and then update. Well
various Service Center versions, and other registration issues made this process
very difficult and hugely frustrating.

So now my thought is that if I upgrade to Komplete 6 I get the new synths of
course but more importantly I get fresh and presumably current installers so
that next time I upgrade to a new mac the process will be much less frustrating.
What do you think? Crazy?!

Here is a link to my current work FWIW -  this video is a live performance (I am
performing in realtime on laptop and controllers) with no editing. Note the many
many sounds that could only be made by Absynth...!

http://vimeo.com/6643827

Cheers,

Steve da sleeve

imho NI has had more install problems than anybody else ever, and it doesn't
make any sense to me, but there it is.  I did, however, just upgrade to
Komplete.  It authorized without glitches and runs fine for me on Snow Leopard. 
Caveat:  Guitar Rig is not a guitar synth, it's an effects module.  It's good
for what it does, but make sure it's what you want.

I owned but ignored Kontakt for years, cuz it was beautifully designed, but
needed so much CPU it kept giving up on me.  The stronger CPUs nowadays are
returning me to Kontakt.  Same for Reaktor.  Reaktor 5 is running a lot more
happily on my new Mac Pro.

It seems to me the whole NI paradigm is a little dated and klunky.  I hope they
catch up, cuz their whole act has been -almost- sublime for a long time.  imho.

After spending 300 some odd bucks for the NI upgrade, tone2 sent me an ad for
Gladiator.  It's a totally fantastic, like WOW, synth for dance music.  No,
they're not paying me anything and don't even know I'm saying this.  Just
informationally, it's worth the 200 bucks to me.

But back to NI.  FM8 (which is new to me) is a true joy, my favorite FM ever.  I
like Massive and Battery, but not to die for.  Battery sounds fine, but is not
the most intuitive or easy place to set up patterns.  Maybe I just haven't
figured it our yet.

Stability and speed are problems at gigs, for sure.  I'm thinking about getting
a CalDigit RAID for speed.  Gladiator imho needs too much CPU for laptop gigs,
so I'll pre-record tracks and loops for those sounds.  Its NI counterpart would
be Massive, but I can't say yet, cuz Glad pulled me away!

bf

------------------------------------------------------------------
On Nov 26, 2009, at 1:12 PM, icarussound wrote:
Hello all. I use Absynth (since V 1) it is my go-to VI and absolute favorite
synth (hardware or software) of all time. I also use Reaktor 5 almost as much,
Kontakt 2 (much less) and many non NI VIs. I can upgrade to Komplete 6 for not
too much, or just get the Absynth 5 upgrade or none of the above. There is a
good price on Kpmplete 6 till the end of the year. I wonder if anyone might
comment on this upgrade.