Does anyone have experience automating testing of non-web GUI apps in
an XP environment? Everyone says test it just under the GUI, which
is the best idea, but what if you can't get your team to think enough
about testability? Anyway, you do need to test the GUI sooner or
later. Any tools/approaches that work for you?
-- Lisa
Does anyone have experience automating testing of non-web GUI apps in an XP environment? Everyone says test it just under the GUI, which is the best idea, but...
... in ... enough ... Can't say that I've done it but everyone I talk to suggest using screen scraper type tools if you absolutely have to test at the GUI ...
I agree that testability issues are more important, but I'm a tester, not the boss, and I can only suggest that the team think more about testability. As long...
1. Make sure that your tests are stored in the same configuration management environment as the development code. This makes it easier for the developers to...
bret@...
Nov 6, 2001 12:05 am
I totally agree with your suggestions, although this doesn't seem specific to non-web GUI (Webload and Silktest are for Web apps). Do you think WinRunner is...
SilkTest is not just for Web Apps, it can test java interfaces. A friend at Rational tells me that the new version of Robot stores verification points in XML...
Bret Pettichord
bret@...
Nov 12, 2001 5:29 pm
... Add a task "Automate acceptance test" to every story. -- Erik Meade emeade@... Senior Consultant Object Mentor, Inc. ...
Erik Meade
emeade@...
Nov 7, 2001 4:19 am
... Yep, we do that. Now, in real life we are automating acceptance tests for web apps, which are somewhat easier even if the app hasn't been designed to be...
... I wonder if "acceptance test" isn't too overloaded a term. I'm inclined to present the issue this way. Suppose I'm a programmer. At any given moment, I'll...
The first problem lies in calling these "acceptance tests." The task of the testing group is to discover the ways in which the product will be unacceptable to...
Cem Kaner
kaner@...
Nov 8, 2001 5:08 am
Cem, You do realize that Lisa asked this question in the context of XP? Acceptance tests in XP really are there to define what is acceptable to the customer....
Erik Meade
emeade@...
Nov 8, 2001 5:57 am
Yes, I am completely aware that Lisa asked this question in the context of XP and I am very aware of the descriptions of acceptance testing. Ultimately, the...
Cem Kaner
kaner@...
Nov 8, 2001 7:15 am
... Please give an example of an XP project that used testing (and frequent releases to the customer) as XP recommends, and still needed testing that went...
Ron Jeffries
ronjeffries@...
Nov 8, 2001 11:10 am
... I have not worked on a project that met all of the criteria of "extreme programming" as Kent Beck describes them. I've worked on dozens of projects that...
Cem Kaner
kaner@...
Nov 8, 2001 6:46 pm
... needed ... I haven't seen this in my limited XP experience. We recently did a release for an external client. We didn't have onsite customer, but used...
... In an agile incremental process, this design could change, or the sequence could fail to work due to some change that no one realized would affect...
Ron Jeffries
ronjeffries@...
Nov 8, 2001 11:08 am
Almost all of the commercial projects that I've worked on (quite a few, since 1983) have been incremental. Prior to that (1976-1983), I did lab control and...
Cem Kaner
kaner@...
Nov 8, 2001 3:58 pm
My experience is like Ron's in that many organizations I'm familiar with do not automate at all, or very little, possibly for load testing and nothing else....
... Seeming digression: back when I was starting to program, there was an active debate over whether batch mode programming (punched cards) or interactive...
... Worse yet, it's wrong. Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Bang, bang, Jeffries' silver hammer came down upon their heads ......
Ron Jeffries
ronjeffries@...
Nov 8, 2001 10:03 pm
... It is my hope that you don't mean this. Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Life tough is. Then die you do. --Yoda (personal communication)...
Ron Jeffries
ronjeffries@...
Nov 8, 2001 10:03 pm
... You bet I do. Agile Alliance principle: Build projects around motivated individuals. Give them the environment and support they need, and trust them to get...
... Either adding testability hooks is a good idea -- and therefore already true, or it is not a good idea, in which case saying it will not make it true, it...
Ron Jeffries
ronjeffries@...
Nov 9, 2001 4:08 am
... Adding testability hooks is a good idea. Almost all the time. As for pursuing an idea as if it were true in order to make it true... I could drone on about...
... Testability hooks are bits of code added to the product under test. They are intended to make testing easier or possible. Here are some examples: 1....
I have a presentation on testability. I've put the foils on the web. http://www.io.com/~wazmo/papers/design_for_testability.pdf It is a large PDF, so it will...
Bret Pettichord
bret@...
Nov 12, 2001 5:29 pm
So they haven't had an occasion where some story which has already been completed suddenly is no longer complete? If the project goes on long enough I bet it...
Erik Meade
emeade@...
Nov 8, 2001 5:57 am
... in ... enough ... What kinds of things do you want to test? -- Erik Meade emeade@... Senior Consultant Object Mentor, Inc. ...
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