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Reply | Forward Message #13415 of 18124 |
Re: [agile-testing] Re: Scenarios and Testing strategy

On Mar 22, 2008, at 9:04 AM, chrs_mcmhn wrote:
Another thing that made a big impression: we collected ideas from the
group about "what makes good automated tests?" We had lots of ideas
about maintainability, flexibility, coverage, etc. etc. Harry just
said "FINDS BUGS". And he has a great point- if your test automation
does not find bugs, you might be wasting your time. 

Hmm. How about FIND BUGS PROMPTLY? 

There are heaps of developer benefit that accrue when bugs are identified as they happen. These include:

* Narrowed scope of search
* Elimination of cascade effects
* Heightened attention (within the flow)
* Association with root causes
* Containment to originating workstation

Immediate test failures feel like compile errors to me, only better. 

Best regards. -- Ward


__________________
Ward Cunningham
503-432-5682
Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:44 pm

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Forward 		Message #13415 of 18124 |
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... I was thinking along the same lines as Ward: Having automated acceptance tests written prior to implementing a story and iteratively writing an automated...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
Offline Send Email 		Mar 24, 2008
1:25 am

... Hmm. How about FIND BUGS PROMPTLY? There are heaps of developer benefit that accrue when bugs are identified as they happen. These include: * Narrowed...
Ward Cunningham
ward@...
Send Email 		Mar 22, 2008
4:44 pm

... And this totally excites me. To paraphrase Tom DeMarco(*) - the success of the manufacturing age in the 20th century was interface standard. Nobody cares...
heusserm
Offline Send Email 		Mar 23, 2008
6:27 pm

... It is also the best way to be effective, because what works best for a particular team on a particular project in a particular situation may not be best in...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
Offline Send Email 		Mar 23, 2008
6:54 pm

One argument for specialization is the economist Ricardo's "comparative advantage". Mankiw's textbook on economics explains it something like this: 1. Michael...
Brian Marick
briandawnpau...
Offline Send Email 		Mar 20, 2008
6:19 am

So, if somebody types twice as fast as me but does not have software development skills, then I should be paying that person to type my programs for me?...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
Offline Send Email 		Mar 20, 2008
8:24 am

I'm not advocating an "over-the-wall" approach. I'm suggesting we write documents collaboratively and then be given the space to perform our specialist skills....
David Peterson
dpeterson72
Offline Send Email 		Mar 20, 2008
3:44 pm

I'm sure glad that I work on a much more collaborative team than you appear to do, that works together throughout the iteration, and takes collective ...
Lisa Crispin
lisa_crispin...
Offline Send Email 		Mar 20, 2008
3:49 pm
David Peterson
dpeterson72
Offline Send Email 		Mar 20, 2008
3:54 pm

I realise it sounds counter-intuitive. You think you'll enjoy your work more by being involved in lots of different things rather than focusing on test cases....
David Peterson
dpeterson72
Offline Send Email 		Mar 20, 2008
6:20 pm

Hi David, I've enjoyed automating tests for the last 15 years or so, and I was a programmer before that, so I kind of doubt that I would suddenly change what I...
Lisa Crispin
lisa_crispin...
Offline Send Email 		Mar 20, 2008
7:24 pm

What if the testers "refine" the test cases into something the developers don't anticipate? Who's right? I'm sure it's just me but whenever I see the phrase...
bjrennie2000
Offline Send Email 		Mar 20, 2008
4:27 pm

The way we work is that you agree the scope of a particular behaviour and the structure for the test cases. The tester's job is to come up with a good set of...
David Peterson
dpeterson72
Offline Send Email 		Mar 20, 2008
6:10 pm

Hello, David. On Thursday, March 20, 2008, at 11:44:15 AM, you ... Issues with this theory: 1. "Clearly defined" is not clearly defined. In my preferred ...
Ron Jeffries
ronaldejeffries
Offline Send Email 		Mar 20, 2008
6:01 pm

... Actually, the theory of comparative advantage says that you should pay that person even if *you* type twice as fast as he does, providing (a) typing takes...
Brian Marick
briandawnpau...
Offline Send Email 		Mar 22, 2008
3:55 pm

I think you can make a good stab at identifying a strong set of acceptance tests up-front before development begins. If you forget something you can add it in...
David Peterson
dpeterson72
Offline Send Email 		Mar 17, 2008
12:57 am

... Schedule features in one-week batches, and write the scenarios when you write their actual features. That's why all Agile projects go very iterative, with...
Phlip
phlipcpp
Offline Send Email 		Mar 17, 2008
8:43 pm

But,we have already developed most of the features using TDD + unit testing approach. ... scenarios? ... you write ... releases of ... important ... specify...
vishal_sodani
Offline Send Email 		Mar 19, 2008
7:31 pm

Vishal, The short answer - I do not believe these are unit tests... They may be both acceptance and integration - to me an acceptance test is s/t I run daily...
John Overbaugh
john.overbaugh@...
Send Email 		Mar 13, 2008
6:44 pm
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