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Tester as "stepping stone" to becoming a programmer   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #18026 of 18224 |
I'd like the group's thoughts on the mindset that views the tester or QA lead
role as a stepping stone to becoming a programmer and that testers are "junior
developers." Of course, on a good agile team, the roles are often blurred (i.e.,
"testers" program and programmers test), but to the extent that a company or
team takes such a hierarchical view, what are the pros and cons?

I saw a thread from 2004 touching on this but I'm wondering if the different
composition of the group and the passage of time yield a different response.

Cordially,
Matt




Mon Nov 2, 2009 9:46 pm

matthew_r_ph...
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Message #18026 of 18224 |
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I'd like the group's thoughts on the mindset that views the tester or QA lead role as a stepping stone to becoming a programmer and that testers are "junior...
Matthew Philip
matthew_r_ph...
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Nov 3, 2009
3:40 pm

Hi Matt, When I bring a tester onto a team, I want that person to be passionate about testing and about delivering a good product, but those are qualities that...
Lisa Crispin
lisa_crispin...
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Nov 3, 2009
4:12 pm

I agree with Lisa. As a hiring manager, I'm more inclined to hire someone who's passionate about test and wants to make a difference from the QA perspective....
John Overbaugh
john.overbaugh@...
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Nov 3, 2009
4:37 pm

I think Lisa has a great comment here "If they're really going to be fully engaged as a tester and they have the right attitude and skills, fine." If the...
mike_longin
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Nov 3, 2009
4:43 pm

IMHO: Developers are engineers -- fixers. There mindset is to design new things and fix broke things. Test Engineers have a different mindset. There goal is to...
Robert Brenner
robert_brenner1
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Nov 3, 2009
6:58 pm

... Their discussion might also include what design would both work and facilitate testing. Their discussion might also include how to slice the requirement...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
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Nov 3, 2009
7:20 pm

I am developing automation tools for testing for over 15 years. For all these years work with QA and currently heading company's QA department. Though tester's...
romevsf@...
romevsf
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Nov 3, 2009
6:58 pm

... Questions, questions, always questions...need to understand the context. Why is the company/team taking such a "hierarchical view"? What are the drivers...
Mike Emeigh
mwemeigh
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Nov 3, 2009
7:07 pm

The theory that every QA engineer can write code leads to most common mistake when automation development assigned to qa engineers. It's all over. The result...
romevsf@...
romevsf
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Nov 3, 2009
8:15 pm

Let's than don't make distinction between salesman,accounting, developer. I would say that programming skills of most of qa are no different from accounting or...
romevsf@...
romevsf
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Nov 3, 2009
8:15 pm

... That may be true in your development context. It's not true in mine (we're developing Web-centric applications for supporting the day-to-day activities...
Mike Emeigh
mwemeigh
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Nov 3, 2009
8:52 pm

Mike works for small shop. In corporations, banks most of QA do not qualify to do not qualify to do development. What I am suggesting is much more typical...
romevsf@...
romevsf
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Nov 3, 2009
9:21 pm

First of all, I'd love to hire a whole bunch of instances of "Ben". Totally! Romevsf, I think your perspective represents the current state of many ...
John Overbaugh
john.overbaugh@...
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Nov 3, 2009
9:36 pm

It is pointless to argue. Besides my intention was not to hurt someone feelings. QA and Programmer are two different professions. It is not an argument who is...
romevsf@...
romevsf
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Nov 3, 2009
10:01 pm

... Mike, I work with a company where all the testers and devs are titled "Members of the technical staff", where all the testers are qualified developers, and...
Matthew
heusserm
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Nov 4, 2009
1:35 pm

Interesting to notice, that many testers at interview and in their resumes put lots of emphasis that they use to be developers. And always when asked why the...
Dmitry Khomikh
romevsf
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Nov 4, 2009
4:21 pm

Dmitry, Why would you feel sorry for us? I've heard (or read) somewhere that most everyone changes careers at least 5 times in their lifetime. I think I'm on ...
Janet Gregory
janetgregoryca
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Nov 4, 2009
6:22 pm

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Janet Gregory wrote: (snip) ... This is why I stress laying real-world problems in front of a job candidate. You can learn a...
Mike Emeigh
mwemeigh
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Nov 4, 2009
6:40 pm

I agree with Jane and my only point is that everything we do at work should be done professionally. This is the route for success. If QA will professionally...
romevsf@...
romevsf
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Nov 4, 2009
6:53 pm

... I am much more amenable to conceding that QA and Dev are different mindsets than conceding they should be distinct teams....
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
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Nov 4, 2009
7:08 pm

I totally agree, People often change career because find an alternative more rewarding rather than any inability to perform the role that they were previously ...
adam_peter.knight
adam_peter.k...
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Nov 5, 2009
12:09 am

I don't want to hurt anyone feelings once again but you sound like people who did not find themselves in life and ended up working as car dealer. What you are...
romevsf@...
romevsf
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Nov 5, 2009
12:17 am

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 5:31 AM, Matthew <matt.heusser@...> wrote: ... I think it could be broken down beyond role, to one of mindset. There are persons...
Kaleb Pederson
kaleb_pederson
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Nov 4, 2009
8:16 pm

I personally went in the opposite direction starting as a programmer/developer then moving company and choosing to take a role as a Tester. Found I had a knack...
Ben
ben.cooney@...
Send Email
Nov 3, 2009
8:16 pm

There are actually quite a few us of "ex-developers" out there who turned to testing as career enhancement. Agile promotes whole team and blurred roles and...
Janet Gregory
janetgregoryca
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Nov 4, 2009
12:12 am

People change careers. Nothing wrong with this. As a matter of fact first developers came from different backgrounds before computer science classes became...
romevsf@...
romevsf
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Nov 4, 2009
12:51 am

Great thread and my observations relate to none of it just my personal feelings In Japanese Manufacturing you don't get to be involved in Quality assurance...
Beaton, Malcolm
macgastro
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Nov 4, 2009
12:15 pm

My advice to Beaton, If you decided to do coding, than you should take c#, vb.net or any other user friendly computing classes to begin with. Then you will...
Dmitry Khomikh
romevsf
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Nov 4, 2009
4:11 pm

Hi Dimitry I draw your attention to the following from my original email I am interested in programming purely because I test it, I would like to know more...
Beaton, Malcolm
macgastro
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Nov 4, 2009
4:52 pm
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