This is the continuation of an earlier note: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/agile-testing/message/1892> It largely stands alone. I hope. Attention conservation...
... Very interesting ideas, Brian. One area of exploration comes right to mind. Test-first in XP is emphatically /not/ "write all the tests first". Clearly (it...
I wrote recently (somewhere else): Nothing wrong with eating dessert first So, the test plan is a living document, but you have to have the basics of a test...
Brian's recent philosophical musings have stirred some of my own and have also encouraged me to share them. Many years ago i majored in philosophy, writing an...
... [deletia] ... To go completely off-topic (I can't help myself), the above sounds reminiscent of Godel's discovery that any sufficiently powerful formal...
... I'm sorry I gave that impression. By "write all the tests first", I intended only that any coding should be justified by a failing test. That's agnostic...
I'm not sure I understand your note. Are you saying this? Rather than worrying about whether tests come before code, or code before tests, we should just check...
Sorry for the empty reply earlier. ... No. I'm saying that worrying about tests and code is like worrying about test cases and test plans. As a pragmatist...
... I agree. I'm just finishing an STQE editorial along these lines: all techniques must be tailored to the project. However, I also believe that tailoring is...
... Common ground is a wonderful thing. ... Fair enough. I'll take that as a challenge to come up with an example of tailoring well from first principles or...
... One way to do this is to have all the tests be automated, and to save them all. Of course, this is completely impractical. Or is it? Ron Jeffries ...
1922
Hubert Matthews
hubert@...
Aug 3, 2002 1:41 pm
... I see a number of benefits that come out of writing tests first: You explore the problem domain rather than the solution domain - understand the problem...
... My view is that a specification and the code set up a tension between them, and they test each other. One should be prepared to modify either or both. The...
... Peter, I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying here. I think it's the "iteration order" phrase that is making me wonder. Here's my context, which...
... OK. I bring an Eiffel design by contract perspective, here. A spec can be pretty small as well. And by iterative, I was trying to say that one could...
... Very interesting example. I shall implement the feature test first, right now. Let's see what happens. I'll do it entirely without lookahead. I swear I'm...
... I would have similar tests. I would also stop and ask a few questions because I don't use characters in Ruby much. - Am I sure == is the right kind of...
... Interestingly, I did not provide a solution (i.e. code). Perhaps my tests have exposed a style of thinking? ... Some Eiffel versions provide "agents" which...
... Actually, I think I disagree with Brian here and agree with Peter. The Test-Driven Development style is -- I believe -- exactly a style of thinking. It...
... By "solution", I meant the tests, not the code. To the extent your test cases were built from the catalog in my book, they do come from a distinct style of...
... In my book, I try to "unpack" this thinking to make it more explicit (and, I hope, more likely to happen). What I say is that you've identified three "test...
XP / Agile Universe was held August 4-7 in Chicago, Illinois, USA. It was an outstanding conference for testers. I venture to say it's the start of a beautiful...
Brian, this is great, thanks so much for posting all this information, and for getting these events rolling at XPU. Last year at XPU, we were still debating...
Brian, I thank you also for the great report. The only thing I believe you missed was the panel discussion that Lisa hosted. Some great ideas were passed...
... Yes - the effect of writing from the workshop flipcharts and the Open Space summaries. You'd think someone with a memory as bad as mine would be more...
... You might want to look at James Bach's "session-based exploratory testing". As I understand it, it grew out of the need to resolve a paradox: given that...
... Yes, I read that article a while ago, and I'm using a simplified (for now) form of session logging with my current team. I prefer to start with the...
... Thanks for the report, Brian! It's certainly very encouraging. Imagine what might blossom when the great minds from the testing and agile methods crowds...
