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What would agile auditing look like?   Message List  
Reply Message #3210 of 4594 |
No I haven't lost my mind!...

In my blog post today, I speculate that the agile community is ready
for agile quality assurance auditing for "conformance to agile
process". See here.
http://www.agilemanagement.net/Articles/Weblog/ThoughtsfromAgile2006.
html

and then this afternoon I was doing an edit pass on the MSF guidance
looking for areas that need updating and I happened to read the
definition of the Auditor role from MSF for CMMI Process Improvement
(remember our CMMI method _is_ an agile method that just happens to
conform to 17 of the 21 process areas in CMMI model level 3)

Here is the text...

About Auditor
-------------
An auditor is external to the project and offers an independent
objective view of a project and its processes. The tendency for some
organizations is to have this function serve as "process police."
Following the team of peers mindset, this function should be more of
a "process coach," with the initial assumption that everyone wants
to do the right thing. An auditor effectively advocates and
communicates for the product management constituency in the MSF Team
Model by auditing the product and its processes and facilitating
corrective action. The auditor is responsible for assessing the
quality in the product as measured by quality control and the
quality assurance measured as conformance against process
definition. An auditor reports variance from specification, variance
from plan, and variance from process definition. An auditor's
reports can be used to assess the likely quality of the product and
whether or not the organization exhibits control in its operations.
A person assigned to this role should be added to the Contributor
permissions group. This allows them to do all that they need to
perform their function; such as create and modify the documents,
work items, and work products.


So my question to the group is, "What would agile auditing look
like?" How can we improve on the role of auditor as it is currently
defined in MSF (or in other CMMI implementations). Can we reinvent
the process quality assurance function and make it part of a "high
trust" organization, or is the idea of auditing always doomed to be
part of a "low trust" and by definition NOT (so very) agile
organization?

David








Tue Aug 8, 2006 10:50 pm

netherby_uk
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Message #3210 of 4594 |
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No I haven't lost my mind!... In my blog post today, I speculate that the agile community is ready for agile quality assurance auditing for "conformance to...
David J Anderson
netherby_uk Offline Send Email
Aug 8, 2006
11:02 pm

So my question to the group is, "What would agile auditing look like?" How can we improve on the role of auditor as it is currently defined in MSF (or in other...
Ed Daniel
ed_daniel2000 Offline Send Email
Aug 9, 2006
12:14 am

Hello Ed, Thank you for the contribution quoted here. On Tuesday, August 8, ... As David has pointed out, many so-called "failed" so-called "agile" projects do...
Ron Jeffries
ronaldejeffries Offline Send Email
Aug 9, 2006
1:05 am

Thanks Ron. Hmm, sounds rather competitive (i.e. agilists competing for the best agile score) - I wonder what might happen if the auditing was related to the ...
Ed Daniel
ed_daniel2000 Offline Send Email
Aug 9, 2006
2:03 am

Hi Everyone, First, I might be mis-reading what Ron wrote, but it sounds, to me, like there's some juxtaposition of "audit" and "certification". From the...
hillelglazer Offline Send Email Aug 9, 2006
2:07 am

I really like the idea of the agile coach having the audit responsiblity and casting it as part of coaching - if you are not holding the bat up, the coach...
David J Anderson
netherby_uk Offline Send Email
Aug 9, 2006
2:27 am

I believe it is more important to help each project team learn how to be more effective and agile than: - auditing whether they are following the agreed upon...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k Offline Send Email
Aug 9, 2006
3:58 am

Steven, I guess you didn't read the original post or the problem described? David ... and...
David J Anderson
netherby_uk Offline Send Email
Aug 9, 2006
6:38 am

... I was responding to everyone's response to your original post. Reading the part of the original blog on auditing, I would concede that there is some value...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k Offline Send Email
Aug 9, 2006
10:19 am

David made a quick comment in an earlier post that bears repeating and strengthening: Agile needs a better term than "audit" to serve the purpose for which ...
hillelglazer Offline Send Email Aug 9, 2006
6:10 pm

Well said Hillel. :-D Thanks. Part of the mission of this group and my work in Agile Management is to improve the capability of management and the skill set of...
David J Anderson
netherby_uk Offline Send Email
Aug 9, 2006
6:25 pm

Hello hillelglazer, Thank you for your ideas. On Wednesday, August 9, 2006, at 10:46:25 ... Yes ... when I do one "officially", I call it an "assessment". Ron...
Ron Jeffries
ronaldejeffries Offline Send Email
Aug 9, 2006
8:02 pm

You won't get a disagreement from me on this but I think you are getting hung up on the baggage you associate with auditing and aren't really contributing to...
David J Anderson
netherby_uk Offline Send Email
Aug 9, 2006
6:15 pm

OK, so what would "agile auditing" LOOK like? From the point of view of an XP or Scrum team currently working on a project, "agile auditing" would LOOK like...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k Offline Send Email
Aug 9, 2006
7:12 pm

Steve Gordon wrote: " Assessing process compliance is counter productive if we want to give teams the resources and responsibility to maximize their own value...
Dean Schulze
dean_w_schulze Offline Send Email
Aug 10, 2006
3:48 am

Hello Dean, Thanks for the contribution quoted here. I believe that I differ substantially with what you've said here. On Wednesday, August 9, ... No, no,...
Ron Jeffries
ronaldejeffries Offline Send Email
Aug 10, 2006
8:47 am

There's seems to be a certain amount of unstated assumptions about team operations in what Ron puts forth. In particular, since rigidly following a process is...
hillelglazer Offline Send Email Aug 10, 2006
4:34 pm

Hello hillelglazer, Thanks for your ideas. On Thursday, August 10, 2006, at 11:56:44 AM, ... While I agree that not every team knows how to do everything it ...
Ron Jeffries
ronaldejeffries Offline Send Email
Aug 10, 2006
6:58 pm

Hi Ron, I like the way your reply posts integrate the header... You noted, ... If I may, what you're alluding to is that Agile is a mindset, a set of values,...
hillelglazer Offline Send Email Aug 10, 2006
8:26 pm

Hello hillelglazer, Thank you for your ideas. I think we're moving toward something important, on the topic David has raised, but quite possibly unlike the...
Ron Jeffries
ronaldejeffries Offline Send Email
Aug 10, 2006
8:58 pm

Just to be clear - I do think that auditing whether a specific set of practices has been carried out has value but I think we'd be missing the point if that...
David J Anderson
netherby_uk Offline Send Email
Aug 10, 2006
10:21 pm

Hello David, Thank you for the email quoted here. On Thursday, August 10, 2006, ... While Beck's book does have that character, as far as I know, the ...
Ron Jeffries
ronaldejeffries Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2006
1:16 am

A couple of thoughts on this Ron... I agree that agile is a different paradigm and paradigm (or mindsets) are made up of values and principles. In this respect...
David J Anderson
netherby_uk Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2006
3:36 am

David, And if we use some of the TOC thinking tools to build some of the Reality Trees or Clouds? A mindset has a set of premisses (or axioms), which are the...
Adail Retamal
adail_retamal Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2006
4:25 am

Hello Adail, Thank you for the contribution quoted here. On Thursday, August 10, ... That would be a very interesting way to proceed, in my particularly ...
Ron Jeffries
ronaldejeffries Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2006
10:11 am

A question. In the context of this auditing topic, what does it mean for an Agile project to "fail"? Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Design is the thinking...
Ron Jeffries
ronaldejeffries Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2006
1:30 pm

I take the question to be that a nominally Agile project "fails", and we want to do an "audit" to find out whether the process itself was somehow culpable....
Ron Jeffries
ronaldejeffries Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2006
6:56 pm

I like it. One reason I like it is that there is no explicit need for an auditing body to be formed. Geoff...
geoffrey_slinker
geoffrey_sli... Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2006
9:12 pm

Hello geoffrey_slinker, I'm confused by your note. On Friday, August 11, 2006, at 5:12:51 ... What is it you like? You provided no context. Ron Jeffries ...
Ron Jeffries
ronaldejeffries Offline Send Email
Aug 11, 2006
10:06 pm
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