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Means to Capture a System's Current and Historical Functionality   Topic List   < Prev Topic  |  Next Topic >
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Re: [AM] Re: Means to Capture a System's Current and Historical Functionality

Two things:

[with] complete requirements, [...] you [can] analyze the impact of new changes
on the existing functionality

What do you mean by "analyze?" From requirements? From source code? All
angles?
What do you mean by "impact of new changes?" Cost? Risk? Estimated date?
All?

Do you have an example of how, with "complete requirements" in hand, you
(1) determined the changes that were new, and (2) analyzed the impact?
And how that would have not been possible without a document? (Maybe
nobody knows the actual system's features? Which would seem unlikely.)

most change requests [...] relate to existing functionality. Thus, business
analysts waste [...] [time re-]writing requirements from scratch for each new
release.

hmmm. so, even though the "enhancement request" may have been a small
bit of new functionality added on to the "Portfolio Summary" screen, a
disproportionately massive document gets generated? As if the BA has to
document the history of civilization just to describe a new feature
tweak to an existing feature?

So, you might be proposing that having this "complete" documentation
maintained over time would help preclude the scenario of
over-documenting a requirement?

Maybe the simpler answer could be:

1. the BAS could ask for feedback on the usefulness of the doc to its
recipients
* Quite often, lacking any feedback, the BA may simply think
that "more is better" when it comes to
excruciatingly-detailed documents.
* Unfortunately, more often than not, 90% of the doc goes
unread by the developers and the business.
* But, guess what, if you are paid to write docs, you get lots
of docs
2. the app already documents the features that it supplies to the
users just by "being"
3. teach the BA that too much documenting is ineffective, a waste of
time, and possibly even harmful
4. establish a culture where trying to achieve the near- and mid-term
business results for these enhancement requests should be done in
as quick of a turn-around time as possible
* instead of paying people to generate docs (or code)...
* pay people to generate features in the hands of users

just a thought...


jon


blog: TechnicalDebt.com <http://technicaldebt.com>
View Jon Kern's LinkedIn profileView Jon Kern's profile
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonkern>


Yuri Chernak said the following on 8/8/08 5:21 PM:
> [responding to Craig]
>
> There are a few benefits of having and maintaining complete requirements:
>
> when you analyze the impact of new changes on the existing functionality
> when you need to transfer knowledge to offshore resources
> when you need to develop requirements for a new release and most of changes
relate to the existing functionality (let’s discuss this point in more detail),
etc.
>
> Speaking from my own experience, most of change requests (60% - 85%) on Wall
Street projects relate to the existing functionality. Thus, business analysts
waste a lot of effort when they do not maintain requirements they developed in
previous releases and write requirements from scratch for each new release.
>
> Craig – I guess, you represent the developers’ community. What if I ask you
the same question – why would you want to maintain source code you developed in
previous releases, when you need to develop new features for the next release? I
am sure you will find this question silly.
>
> My point is that business analysts have the same benefit of documenting and
maintaining complete requirements, as developers have a good reason to maintain
their code base.
>
> Regards. Yuri
>
> --- On Fri, 8/8/08, craig_w_brown <craig.brown@...> wrote:
>
> From: craig_w_brown <craig.brown@...>
> Subject: [AM] Re: Means to Capture a System's Current and Historical
Functionality
> To: agilemodeling@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 7:51 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In agilemodeling@ yahoogroups. com, "Paul Oldfield"
> <PaulOldfield1@ ...> wrote:
>
>
>> I have come across many systems where new requirements are
>> expressed in terms of changes to the existing system, and
>> the requirements for the existing system are either
>> forgotten or were never known. In almost all cases the
>> people looking after the requirements for these systems
>> say it would be nice to have a full set of the requirements
>> of the existing system. In almost all cases they decide
>> the cost of doing this is not worht the value.
>>
>>
>
> I ask why you want to document requirements.
>
> Don't you really want features? You care about what the system does,
> not what problems were solved in the past.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>



Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:25 pm

jonkernpa
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I have been asked by senior management to create a document that captures: 1. the business requirements that are realized by the current system 2. the...
thejuliesmith
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Aug 6, 2008
10:16 am

... Rather than talking about requirements would you be better off just listing features and benefits? A requirement is about framing up a problem or...
craig_w_brown
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Aug 6, 2008
11:27 am

need to ask "why"... why do they want this? what are they seeking to find out? might be different approaches to achieving their true end goal... jon blog:...
Jon Kern
jonkernpa
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Aug 7, 2008
2:13 pm

... That does not explain the value. What are the values you see? Thinking about how EXACTLY the captured details will be used in future will help you to...
Kamal Wickramanayake
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Aug 7, 2008
5:28 pm

It depends, of course, on the specific circumstances. An historical view of the product's capabilities helps you figure out what you need to retain in the...
Scott Preece
sepreece
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Aug 7, 2008
7:29 pm

(responding to Julie (?)) ... I have come across many systems where new requirements are expressed in terms of changes to the existing system, and the...
Paul Oldfield
pauloldfield1
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Aug 8, 2008
9:09 am

... I ask why you want to document requirements. Don't you really want features? You care about what the system does, not what problems were solved in the...
craig_w_brown
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Aug 8, 2008
11:51 am

(responding to Craig) ... Good questions. Asking whether the cost is worth the value can uncover these questions. I doubt we would get the same answers in...
Paul Oldfield
pauloldfield1
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Aug 8, 2008
1:21 pm

... thx paul...
craig_w_brown
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Aug 9, 2008
1:37 am

maybe requirements = features for some folks... jon blog: TechnicalDebt.com <http://technicaldebt.com> View Jon Kern's LinkedIn profileView Jon Kern's profile ...
Jon Kern
jonkernpa
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Aug 8, 2008
9:05 pm

... Then came FDD? -- Kamal Wickramanayake IT/Software Architect & Trainer Software View - http://www.swview.org/ World Quality Trainings!...
Kamal Wickramanayake
kwickramanayake@...
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Aug 9, 2008
1:27 am

maybe <g> jon blog: TechnicalDebt.com <http://technicaldebt.com> View Jon Kern's LinkedIn profileView Jon Kern's profile <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonkern>...
Jon Kern
jonkernpa
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Aug 10, 2008
6:08 pm

[responding to Craig]   There are a few benefits of having and maintaining complete requirements: when you analyze the impact of new changes on the existing...
Yuri Chernak
ychernak
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Aug 8, 2008
9:21 pm

... I doubt whether that will make the life of a BA easier. I guess that even the BAs should embrace agile practices to the maximum. Maintaining "complete...
Kamal Wickramanayake
kwickramanayake@...
Send Email
Aug 9, 2008
2:33 am

[responding to Kamal]   Kamal – I liked your points and here is my response:   I agree, when analyzing the impact of change requests, it is sufficient to...
Yuri Chernak
ychernak
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Aug 10, 2008
6:09 pm

... I agree. You are very correct. But the problem is no "existing specifications" are found in an agile project in the form of a doc (a complete spec other...
Kamal Wickramanayake
kwickramanayake@...
Send Email
Aug 11, 2008
4:29 am

Hello, Kamal. On Monday, August 11, 2008, at 12:29:23 AM, you ... Automated acceptance tests, considered essential in some methods, serve to document each...
Ron Jeffries
ronaldejeffries
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Aug 11, 2008
11:00 am

if you are starting from a blank slate, nothing says that you have to color in that slate as a task. why not do the minimum required? At most, you could do...
Jon Kern
jonkernpa
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Aug 11, 2008
11:56 am

... Actually, in a recent survey performed by DDJ we found that agilists are just as likely as traditionalists to write documentation. The results of this...
Scott Ambler
scottwambler
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Aug 12, 2008
1:23 pm

Hi Scott -- Would a versioned, annotated library of regression tests help to capture a system's current and historical functionality? The tests would be...
Adrian Walker
adrianw88
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Aug 12, 2008
3:27 pm

[responding to Adrian]   The problem with a regression suite that is built based on just your best understanding of the application is that you do not know...
Yuri Chernak
ychernak
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Aug 13, 2008
1:41 am

Two things: [with] complete requirements, [...] you [can] analyze the impact of new changes on the existing functionality What do you mean by "analyze?" From...
Jon Kern
jonkernpa
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Aug 10, 2008
6:25 pm

I still really don't see value in this activity. Requirements re-use is another kettle of fish to reverse engineering a system to find requirements. Maybe what...
craig_w_brown
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Aug 11, 2008
11:29 am

... Okay, an excellent response by Adrian from Modern ANalyst can be found here; ...
craig_w_brown
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Aug 19, 2008
12:25 pm

It depends on the situation. In the case I described back toward the beginning of this thread, the automated tests themselves wouldn't work, because we were...
Scott Preece
sepreece
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Aug 12, 2008
3:43 pm
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