Is this traditional modeling, or just traditional stupidity? Is doing some amount of up-front modeling going to cause the bahviour you describe, or is this...
(responding to David) ... I think back to Math class where we had to show all our 'working' in full. Yes, I want my people to do the math rather than make...
My observation is that some people seem simply resistant to abstract thought and shouldn't be relied on to do tasks that require modeling, written or not. They...
(responding to Clifford) ... Hmm... well, my compiler is totally incapable of abstract thought but does a useful job... not much of a team player, though. I've...
Assuming we are at the point of no return as far as off shore and assuming that the organization in cutting down on travel, does Agile still have a chance? ...
... Yes. ;-) ... Doing some up front modeling is a valuable exercise. So valuable in fact that 77% of Agile teams do it as regular practice (see the DDJ 2007...
... Sure, just less of one. ;-) ... Depends on the situation. Try some point form notes, some sketches, and lots of conversation to start and see where it...
... Specification management tools? :-) Seriously though, many things that can be written down well enough to be outsourced *ought* to be able to be written...
Hello, paul_oldfield_ams. On Tuesday, October 2, 2007, at 3:18:19 ... A person totally incapable of abstract thought would get killed at the second traffic...
(responding to Clifford) ... I'm in strong agreement here, as long as we realise it isn't just the tools; the people have somethign to do with it too ;-) Paul...
Note that I didn't say "incapable", I said "resistant". What they do, they tend to do subconsciously, and that includes avoiding crossing at the red. These...
(responding to Ron) ... On average, and if traffic lights were the only hazard... Maybe that's why I never get to meet anyone like that? Paul Oldfield ...
(responding to Clifford) ... Noted. I was just wanting to close off that possible interpretation. ... I find it easier to get them started along the way I'd ...
... If the people can't describe what they want even well enough that it can be outsourced effectively, all is lost anyhow. If they *can*, then they can...
Hello, Clifford. On Tuesday, October 2, 2007, at 7:12:56 AM, you ... Please give an example of one such thing. Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Any errors...
Hello, Clifford. On Tuesday, October 2, 2007, at 7:19:37 AM, you ... There is good reason to believe that no one understands anything without concrete...
Hello, paul_oldfield_ams. On Tuesday, October 2, 2007, at 7:23:23 ... Yes. There are no living functional humans who are incapable of abstract thought. They...
... I agree. But for some people, the abstraction comes naturally and the examples come second, and for others, it's the other way around. I regard this as a...
The more apt question is whether the projects still have a reasonable chance of success under any approach. If the organization needs to cut expenses,...
My concern with abstract up-front modeling is not with the developers at all. Even if the developers completely understand what concrete system the abstract...
... Exactly, which is why fact-based modeling has always focussed on verbalisations - both general and concrete (i.e. both "Person likes BeerBrand" and...
What I've seen with people who are developing from the concrete is a rendition of the old system (Manual or Computerized). I don't think that is in anyone's...
So, why do you guys consider traffic lights to require abstract thought? I would have said they were very concrete operational things that classic psych...
(responding to Scott P) ... Ron will have to speak for himself, but on my own behalf I can say that getting killed by going through a traffic light on red is...
Thats a good question. The more apt question is whether the projects still have a reasonable chance of success under any approach. In Pete Deemer's CSM class...
Good answer, thanks! Another thought on models: I am a Business Analyst by trade (i know, i know...). Any way, I sometimes build models for just my own ...
Hello, Clifford. On Tuesday, October 2, 2007, at 8:35:43 AM, you ... I sincerely question whether anyone really starts with abstractions, but I'm not clear...
Hello, Scott. On Tuesday, October 2, 2007, at 9:52:20 AM, you ... Generalization != abstraction? Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Those who attain to any...
... Sorry, not intended that way at all - I respect the positions you hold. However, the fact that you need to hold them against more established points of...
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