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An upload's subjective experience   Message List  
Reply Message #17827 of 18211 |
Hello everyone,

I'm writing an article for H+ magazine about this subject. My prediction is that the upload will experience something, but in a fundamentally different kind of way. So I think the color experience, for instance, won't quite be the same. My idea is that many physical changes, can radically change this experience with respect to the upload's human form. Basically, I continue my AIT based theory of qualia, and I reach the conclusion that, some information, and thus some qualia, will be shared by the human brain and its upload simulation, but the simulation will naturally have the algorithmic information from: the simulation program itself, the physical make-up of the processing elements, wires and communication, i.e. the hardware that the program runs on. If for instance our brains' chemical reactions are part of that, then, by not simulating those chemical reactions, we might be losing some resolution and the fundamental quality of the media. We might find that the digital experience is much more digital sounding and harsh, so maybe even the difference of analog vs. digital computation is felt, and then there are material-bound changes. I think that an optical computer and a digital computer will give rise to different kinds of experience. Maybe we'll prefer the light form better :)

What do you think?

--
Eray Ozkural, PhD candidate.  Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ai-philosophy
http://myspace.com/arizanesil http://myspace.com/malfunct



Sat Apr 9, 2011 2:49 pm

examachine
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Message #17827 of 18211 |
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Hello everyone, I'm writing an article for H+ magazine about this subject. My prediction is that the upload will experience something, but in a fundamentally...
Eray Ozkural
examachine Offline Send Email
Apr 9, 2011
2:49 pm

Hi Eray I have one interesting example. Let we have powerful enough self-aware AGI which uses good hardware RNG with custom distribution (for Monte-Carlo ...
Victor Smirnov
vv_smirnov Offline Send Email
Apr 9, 2011
8:37 pm

Yeah but how do you know RNG's are used? :) I suppose you mean quantum-level RNG's, like perhaps macro bio-molecules, for induction? ... -- Eray Ozkural, PhD...
Eray Ozkural
examachine Offline Send Email
Apr 10, 2011
9:14 pm

... But the upload of me will not BE me so who cares? JC...
jgkjcasey Offline Send Email Apr 9, 2011
8:40 pm

... Okay, that's a good point :) No it won't be you, it will be your digital descendant. You don't care about him? :) Cheers, -- Eray Ozkural, PhD candidate....
Eray Ozkural
examachine Offline Send Email
Apr 10, 2011
9:15 pm

... That’s the most certain thing of it all. An upload of me will never be me, even if this upload happens to be done in a brainless clone of my own body....
Sergio Navega
snavega Offline Send Email
Apr 11, 2011
12:58 pm

Eray, The argument relies on "rounding error" (so to speak), right? No difference would be felt if the simulation were (unrealistically) perfect? Why would the...
Abram Demski
abramdemski Offline Send Email
Apr 11, 2011
12:56 am

Yes, that's the right direction to investigate. I have an argument in that direction, as well. An observation is that only the computationally efficacious...
Eray Ozkural
examachine Offline Send Email
Apr 11, 2011
5:00 am

Eray, I think you’ve got that right. In fact, I’m even more radical: I think most of what we describe as subjective human experiences is highly dependend...
Sergio Navega
snavega Offline Send Email
Apr 11, 2011
12:57 pm

Hello there, Yes, I've been thinking about that, too. I'm also considering that chemical reactions may play an important role in implementing emotions (is that...
Eray Ozkural
examachine Offline Send Email
Apr 11, 2011
1:19 pm

Well, I can tell you that we’re aligned in our take at this issue. No doubt the simulation will have its own set of subjective experiences (ones that we ...
Sergio Navega
snavega Offline Send Email
Apr 11, 2011
2:29 pm

Hi Eray Only tiny fractions of emotions are backed with chemistry directly. These are mostly basic (basal) behavioral and cognitive emotions. Higher level ...
Victor Smirnov
vv_smirnov Offline Send Email
Apr 11, 2011
6:18 pm

2011/4/11 Victor Smirnov <aist11@...> ... The question is whether it is necessary for certain chemical interactions to take place for pain to feel like...
Eray Ozkural
examachine Offline Send Email
Apr 11, 2011
7:04 pm

... This is by far the most complex and (so far) unsolved question. What is pain? What is qualia? Philosophers have debated this exaustively. I’m skeptical...
Sergio Navega
snavega Offline Send Email
Apr 11, 2011
8:55 pm

... Whether a feeling is experienced in a particular way may be less influential than whether it is experienced in any way, in forming some kind of ...
Eray Ozkural
examachine Offline Send Email
Apr 11, 2011
9:37 pm

I mean, scientifically, we should be able to ask under which physical/chemical conditions does a particular mental quality like being in pain, is formed. We...
Eray Ozkural
examachine Offline Send Email
Apr 11, 2011
9:43 pm

And one more thing that I forgot: the question ultimately depends on the correct theory of human-like and otherwise subjective experience. If the relativistic...
Eray Ozkural
examachine Offline Send Email
Apr 11, 2011
9:46 pm

Let me say some words about this question, that I see as highly complex. Yes, as you say, it should be possible in principle to simulate the physicochemical...
Sergio Navega
snavega Offline Send Email
Apr 12, 2011
8:29 pm

Oh well, but consider this. You are in a cylon body (the chrome type :). And you are an upload. Functionally, the internal emotions of the brain have been...
Eray Ozkural
examachine Offline Send Email
Apr 12, 2011
9:02 pm

... I can honestly tell you that I don't know. Of course, I’m assuming that this cylon has a body with biological equivalents of our human organs, and that...
Sergio Navega
snavega Offline Send Email
Apr 12, 2011
9:41 pm

No, of course it's those shiny robotic bodies :) Who wants a human body when you have CHROME :))))) -- Eray Ozkural, PhD candidate. Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent...
Eray Ozkural
examachine Offline Send Email
Apr 12, 2011
10:41 pm
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