Hi Tony

Many thanks for your input.  I will check these two
books out.  These are certainly half the price of
Practical Ampelography by Galet.

Regards,

Ray Pryke

  --- TONY.BAKER@... wrote:
---------------------------------
There are two titles available written by world famous
ampelographer, Pierre Galet.

1.  GRAPE VARIETIES AND ROOTSTOCK VARIETIES
Price is $US 121.25.

2.  GENERAL VITICULTURE
Price is $US 125.00.

Plus postage.

order from:

Gina Opperman

UCD Bookstore
Special Orders Department
2828 Cowell Blvd.
530-752-9074
530-752-4791 (fax)
glopperman@...



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There are two titles available written by world famous ampelographer, Pierre
Galet.

1.  GRAPE VARIETIES AND ROOTSTOCK VARIETIES
Price is $US 121.25.

2.  GENERAL VITICULTURE
Price is $US 125.00.

Plus postage.

order from:

Gina Opperman

UCD Bookstore
Special Orders Department
2828 Cowell Blvd.
530-752-9074
530-752-4791 (fax)
glopperman@...

Hi Ron

Yep!  The very same book would be a start. Amazon - I can't believe
this either - have about 3 sources. It is the Galet book translated
by Lucie Morton.  Tarmens Books - $220!  Amazon, from $195 (used copy)
Redladybooks - another stupid price is $231.11 from Alibris(sic).  On
top of this, I would have to pay shipping charges from the USA to UK.

I will hunt around.  Someone must do a Mint to VG copy for a lot less.

Having said all this, I do have some books (now completely out of
print)on wine and also winemaking and a few these could easily make
over $100 each, so I can appreciate why some books would be
expensive. This book is not particularly rare though.

Will do a bit more seaching and let you know what I come up with.

Regards

Ray Pryke



--- In ampelography@yahoogroups.com, Vanclaybor@a... wrote:
> Are we thinking of the same book? Translated by Lucie Morton, ISBN
> 0-8014-1240-4? I cant believe it's that expensive.
>
>   Ron

Ray,

Sadly, that book has not been written yet.

With a collection of books you can approach that, but it is hard if you stay in
English. Part of this is that there is a feeling by many that classical
ampelography is as much an art as it is science. This is not a universally held
belief, but I believe it is more common with English speakers, who generally
have a more empirical focus.

If ampelography were pure science, reliable dicotamous keys could be developed -
they haven't. Galet tried this, and published some.  There have been other
attempts to develop computer keys using multivariate analysis.  These have been
a little successful, but are difficult to use, and their reliability breaks down
without an experienced user.

Of course, the trend is to use genetic ampelography, which is more reliable, but
still not very accessable.

Sorry I can not be more helpful.

Mark Hart

----------------------------------------Rau--------
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:10:06 +0100 (BST), Ray Pryke <raypryke@...> wrote:

> Hi Mark
>
> What I really want is a text book similar, or at least
> as technical as the Galet book Pactical Ampelography,
> again, in English.  This book is $185 used from
> Amazon.  There needs to be detailed pictures and
> reasonably informative technical text on the
> difference between the varieties and a little on clone
> distinction.  It does need to be worldwide too.  I
> have the grape Varieties book by Galet in English but
> it's not technical enough.  I do tutored wine tasting
> and always write a booklet for each tasting.
> Obviously this does require a certain amount of
> technical research each time. I will get asked
> questions like what is the difference between Cabernet
> and Merlot, not just on taste, but physically.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ray Pryke
>
>
>  --- markhart@... wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Ray,
>
> Can you be a little more specific about what you seek.
>
> Are you looking to learn about classical ampelographic
> methods?
> Are you looking for a book with information about
> grape varieties?
> Should it be for the entire globe, or just a specific
> area?
> Does it need to be in English?
>
> Mark Hart
> ------------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:13:35 -0000, "Ray Pryke"
> <raypryke@...> wrote:
>
> > Please can anyone find me a decent book on the
> subject without having
> > to pay hundreds of dollars?
> >
> > Ray Pryke
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > ampelography-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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> >
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Hi Ron

Yes, I know what you mean.  The real proper technical
books are very expensive.  I want something in
English, informative, gives reasonable answers to
relatively difficult questions, and is moderately
priced. I have books like the Galet Grape Varieties
book, but it won't answer the question to the main
difference between the Merlot and the Carmenère!

Thanks,

Regards,

Ray Pryke
  --- Vanclaybor@... wrote: >  the Galet book isnt
to bad though far from
> complete. Most of the Jancis
> Robinson books have some pictures although not
> highly detailed. there's a site;
> Grapepictures.com, once again , not very detailed
> and there's some confusion
> over varieties.
>
>  Ron
>

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Hi Mark

What I really want is a text book similar, or at least
as technical as the Galet book Pactical Ampelography,
again, in English.  This book is $185 used from
Amazon.  There needs to be detailed pictures and
reasonably informative technical text on the
difference between the varieties and a little on clone
distinction.  It does need to be worldwide too.  I
have the grape Varieties book by Galet in English but
it's not technical enough.  I do tutored wine tasting
and always write a booklet for each tasting.
Obviously this does require a certain amount of
technical research each time. I will get asked
questions like what is the difference between Cabernet
and Merlot, not just on taste, but physically.

Regards,

Ray Pryke


  --- markhart@... wrote:
---------------------------------
Ray,

Can you be a little more specific about what you seek.

Are you looking to learn about classical ampelographic
methods?
Are you looking for a book with information about
grape varieties?
Should it be for the entire globe, or just a specific
area?
Does it need to be in English?

Mark Hart
------------------------------------------------
On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:13:35 -0000, "Ray Pryke"
<raypryke@...> wrote:

> Please can anyone find me a decent book on the
subject without having
> to pay hundreds of dollars?
>
> Ray Pryke
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ampelography-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Ray,

Can you be a little more specific about what you seek.

Are you looking to learn about classical ampelographic methods?
Are you looking for a book with information about grape varieties?
Should it be for the entire globe, or just a specific area?
Does it need to be in English?

Mark Hart
------------------------------------------------
On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:13:35 -0000, "Ray Pryke" <raypryke@...> wrote:

> Please can anyone find me a decent book on the subject without having
> to pay hundreds of dollars?
>
> Ray Pryke
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ampelography-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Please can anyone find me a decent book on the subject without having
to pay hundreds of dollars?

Ray Pryke

FPMS is a service unit at University of California Davis that distributes
virus tested plant material for several vegetatively propagated crops
(including grapes) to the public. Virus tested mother vines are kept in a
foundation vineyard which is regularly inspected and tested for virus
disease. The mother vines are also checked for variety correctness. More
information about FPMS is available from the website at:
http://fpms.ucdavis.edu

For descriptions of table grapes I recommend that you check the California
Table Grape commission web page at: http://www.tablegrape.com/
They have pictures and descriptions of grapes at:
http://www.tablegrape.com/consumers/variety.asp?section=consumers

Susan Nelson-Kluk


At 07:59 PM 4/8/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>OK & Thanks for you're help but what is FPMS ? (Sorry for the stuipidy but
>we're new and back yard growers)
>
>Glenn &
>Rhonda
>

Susan Nelson-Kluk
Grape Program Manager
Foundation Plant Materials Service
University of California
One Shields Avenue
Davis, CA 95616
Phone: 530-752-0538
FAX: 530-752-2132
World Wide Web:  http://fpms.ucdavis.edu/

OK & Thanks for you're help but what is FPMS ? (Sorry for the stuipidy but we're new and back yard growers)

Glenn & Rhonda                                                                               

 TONY.BAKER@... wrote:

In 1872, William Thompson introduced seedless grape cuttings to California. Thompson Seedless today make up more than 95 per cent of the grapes used to make raisins in California. About 4-1/2 pounds (2 kilograms) of grapes produce 1 pound (0.5 kilogram) of raisins.

Glen, try the FPMS site for identity, it should not be too hard for such a popular grape. You would need a good leaf to compare.
The reference to not harvesting for 5 years probably meant that you should not encourage the vine to make too many bunches in the first years?

I am not that familiar with table grapes, Glen.


>
> From: glenn fausett <gfrf84@...>
> Date: 2003/04/04 Fri PM 02:01:34 GMT+12:00
> To: ampelography@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [ampelography] Tompson seedless
>
>
> I planted two vines that were supposed to be the thompson seedless kind. Turns out one is infact a red seeded grape. I supect the other will be as well since the leaves look the same. The reserch i did said to not let them make fruit untill the 4th or 5th year. As you may now guess i'm a bit perturbed since i waited 5 years to find they'er not what i wanted. QUESTION IS...Is there a way i can tell they are for sure they are thompson seedless ?  Perhaps by leaf shape? Thanks for any help.Our mail is    gfrf84@...
>
> 
>
>                                                                          Glenn & Rhonda
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
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I planted two vines that were supposed to be the thompson seedless kind. Turns out one is infact a red seeded grape. I supect the other will be as well since the leaves look the same. The reserch i did said to not let them make fruit untill the 4th or 5th year. As you may now guess i'm a bit perturbed since i waited 5 years to find they'er not what i wanted. QUESTION IS...Is there a way i can tell they are for sure they are thompson seedless ?  Perhaps by leaf shape? Thanks for any help.Our mail is    gfrf84@...

 

                                                                         Glenn & Rhonda

---

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In 1872, William Thompson introduced seedless grape cuttings to California.
Thompson Seedless today make up more than 95 per cent of the grapes used to make
raisins in California. About 4-1/2 pounds (2 kilograms) of grapes produce 1
pound (0.5 kilogram) of raisins.

Glen, try the FPMS site for identity, it should not be too hard for such a
popular grape. You would need a good leaf to compare.
The reference to not harvesting for 5 years probably meant that you should not
encourage the vine to make too many bunches in the first years?

I am not that familiar with table grapes, Glen.


>
> From: glenn fausett <gfrf84@...>
> Date: 2003/04/04 Fri PM 02:01:34 GMT+12:00
> To: ampelography@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [ampelography] Tompson seedless
>
>
> I planted two vines that were supposed to be the thompson seedless kind. Turns
out one is infact a red seeded grape. I supect the other will be as well since
the leaves look the same. The reserch i did said to not let them make fruit
untill the 4th or 5th year. As you may now guess i'm a bit perturbed since i
waited 5 years to find they'er not what i wanted. QUESTION IS...Is there a way i
can tell they are for sure they are thompson seedless ?  Perhaps by leaf shape?
Thanks for any help.Our mail is    gfrf84@...
>
>
>
>                                                                          Glenn
& Rhonda
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
>

I planted two vines that were supposed to be the thompson seedless kind. Turns out one is infact a red seeded grape. I supect the other will be as well since the leaves look the same. The reserch i did said to not let them make fruit untill the 4th or 5th year. As you may now guess i'm a bit perturbed since i waited 5 years to find they'er not what i wanted. QUESTION IS...Is there a way i can tell they are for sure they are thompson seedless ?  Perhaps by leaf shape? Thanks for any help.Our mail is    gfrf84@...

                                                                         Glenn & Rhonda

I planted two vines that were supposed to be the thompson seedless kind. Turns out one is infact a red seeded grape. I supect the other will be as well since the leaves look the same. The reserch i did said to not let them make fruit untill the 4th or 5th year. As you may now guess i'm a bit perturbed since i waited 5 years to find they'er not what i wanted. QUESTION IS...Is there a way i can tell they are for sure they are thompson seedless ?  Perhaps by leaf shape? Thanks for any help.Our mail is    gfrf84@...

                                                                         Glenn & Rhonda

Chris, Thanks for the lead on this book, I found it on
E-Bay. I am new at wine making and have frends who
have grapes but don't know what they are, They make
very good wine. This book will help.  Steve
--- "Chris Harding (Viticlone Supplies)"
<viticlone@...> wrote:
> Another good publication in English is:
> Wine Grape Varieties
> by George Kerridge & Allan Antcliffe
> published by CSIRO in Australia
> ISBN 0 643 05982 2
> It can be purchased online from
> www.winetitles.com.au
> It is not as technically oriented as Galet but has
> excellent photographs and
> good descriptions.Also includes other than French
> varieties.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "steve tavenner" <rst50_1999@...>
> To: <ampelography@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:20 PM
> Subject: [ampelography] (unknown)
>
>
> > I am looking for a good book on identifying
> grapes.
> > can someone help me RST. Thanks.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
> now.
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> >
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> >
> >
>
>
>


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Jim,

I just ordered it, and the total was about $78 with shipping, I say
about because I ordered a couple other small books, so the shipping
amount is approximate.  They may have had a surface shipping option that
I missed.

Mark Hart

jimboward@... wrote:

> Hi Susan,
>
> Thank you so much for this reference.  Now I'll just have to take
> a crash course in Italian!  (But thanks to the rapid fall of dollar
> against the euro, this is now over $56, probably before shipping.
> Still sounds like a bargain, though.)  Buon giorno!
>
> -Jim Ward-
> Eno River Vineyards
> Durham, NC
>
> In a message dated 2/7/2003 11:31:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> sanelsonkluk@... writes:
>
>> There is a good new ampelography in Italian by Antonio Calo titled:
>> Vitigni d'Italia.  The book is over 800 pages long and it includes
>> variety descriptions, pictures of fruit, leaves and shoot tips, lists
>> of clones in Italy for each variety, clone descriptions, and
>> information about where the varieties are grown in Italy. I think it
>> was under $50 including shipping from Italy. It can be ordered from
>> http://www.internetbookshop.it <http://www.internetbookshop.it/>. I
>> had someone who spoke Italian help me order because this internet
>> site is all in Italian.
>> Susan Nelson-Kluk
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> ampelography-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
>> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>

Another good publication in English is:
Wine Grape Varieties
by George Kerridge & Allan Antcliffe
published by CSIRO in Australia
ISBN 0 643 05982 2
It can be purchased online from www.winetitles.com.au
It is not as technically oriented as Galet but has excellent photographs and
good descriptions.Also includes other than French varieties.

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve tavenner" <rst50_1999@...>
To: <ampelography@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:20 PM
Subject: [ampelography] (unknown)


> I am looking for a good book on identifying grapes.
> can someone help me RST. Thanks.
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

>    From: steve tavenner <rst50_1999@...>
> I am looking for a good book on identifying grapes.

Steve

Pierre Galet's books are good for vinifera grapes otherwise there seems to
be little in print ...try the International VITIS Database
http://www.dainet.de/genres/vitis/vitis.htm

Cheers
Craig

I am looking for a good book on identifying grapes.
can someone help me RST. Thanks.

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The public is invited to enjoy fine wines, food, music and fun at
our 2002 Harvest Festival on Sept. 21st 2002. Admission and parking
is free!
Nuyaka Creek Winery will be celebrating this season's harvest and
our first full year of operation, as well as introducing our 2002
Elderberry wine.

At the Nuyaka Creek Winery, we currently offer free tastings of 15
different wines every weekend...all made in Oklahoma. Many made from
indigenous fruits long known for their natural healing properties.
Visit us if you are interested in trying our wines, learning more
about new opportunities for commercial wine grape production in
Oklahoma or selling your farm produce to make Oklahoma wine.

Saturday: Noon-Dusk

Location:
NUYAKA, OKLAHOMA

Contact:
Dianne Jones
Nuyaka Creek Winery
http://www.nuyakacreek.com/
35230 South 177th West Ave.
Bristow, Oklahoma 74010
For appointments or directions call
the Nuyaka Mall at:
(918) 756-8485

Pleased to hear from you.  Do tell us about viticulture in your region---especially the muscat dessert types for me.

Roy

There just isnt much activity on this board. Try growgrapes or graperus

I subscibed to this group one month ago but I have yet
to receive any messages. Could some one confirm that
my application to join was received ?

Many thanks,

Lucienne

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Thanks, That sounds alot like what I ve got--- In
ampelography@y..., "Dejan Tesic" <tesic@w...> wrote:
> Firstly hi to the group.
>
> Regarding the Italian text on Corvina here's a very rough
translation
> (I've skipped the pieces I didn't quite understand):
>
> CORVINA VERONESE widely cultivated in the Veronese areas of the
> Valpolicella, Valpantena and Bardolino.
>
> Description
>
> Winter bud large, ...
>
> Leaf medium large, pentagonal, 5-lobed, green, little hairy,
intense
> color.
>
> Medium-small, cylindrical-pyramidal cluster, with obvious, compact
> wing, berries medium, eliptical, of blue-black color, medium
> consistency, juicy pulp.
>
> Cultural aptitudes: Vine of good vigour, late budburst... growth
> generally balanced.
>
> Adapted to various fertile and humid (not excessively) soil types,
> also limestone, it prefers however sunny and dry climates for
regular
> and healthy grape maturity.
>
> Growing and pruning ... preference for canes...
>
> Green pruning allows regulation of fruit maturation.
> Really "delicate" cultivar, not adapted to mechanical growing
systems.
>
> Production
> Average and reasonably consistent.
>
> Grape harvest
> Medium-late. Machine harvesting with caution in order not to damage
> vines.
>
> Resistance to diseases: moderate, more sensitive to botrytis in
> clones with compact cluster.
>
> Wine organoleptic evaluation: gives a wine of red color... with
smell
> of violets, acidic, elevated tannins, full body, vinous, not
lacking
> in finesse but somewhat disharmonic.
>
> Vinification of Corvina is (usually) not as a varietal, but blended
> with other grapes of Rondinella, Molinara, Rossignola, etc. ending
as
> a highly regarded wine of Valpolicella, Valpantena, Bardolino, etc.
>
> With late harvest and special winemaking techniques and blending
with
> other cultivars it produces the Recioto and the Amarone.
>
> Corvina Veronese Rauscedo 6: cluster is medium, semi-compact,
> cylindrical-pyramidal, winged; berries medium-small with good and
> constant production;  it has good resistance to botrytis. Gives a
> full-bodied wine with (later maturation?).
>
> Others clones available:  ISV-cv7, ISV-cv13, ISV-cv48, ISV-cv78.
>
> ---------
> Cheers everyone.
> D. Tesic
>
> --- In ampelography@y..., Vanclaybor@a... wrote:
> > Thanks Marco. Sadly, I dont understand Italian. It wil take me a
> > couple of days to round up someone who does. Does that article
say
> > anything about winter hardiness?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In ampelography@y..., "La Bidul - Wine Tasting Society
> Garbagnate
> > & Groane" <labidul@h...> wrote:
> > > If of any use...
> > >
> > > Marco de Donà.
> > >
> > >
> > >
_________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Firstly hi to the group.

Regarding the Italian text on Corvina here's a very rough translation
(I've skipped the pieces I didn't quite understand):

CORVINA VERONESE widely cultivated in the Veronese areas of the
Valpolicella, Valpantena and Bardolino.

Description

Winter bud large, ...

Leaf medium large, pentagonal, 5-lobed, green, little hairy, intense
color.

Medium-small, cylindrical-pyramidal cluster, with obvious, compact
wing, berries medium, eliptical, of blue-black color, medium
consistency, juicy pulp.

Cultural aptitudes: Vine of good vigour, late budburst... growth
generally balanced.

Adapted to various fertile and humid (not excessively) soil types,
also limestone, it prefers however sunny and dry climates for regular
and healthy grape maturity.

Growing and pruning ... preference for canes...

Green pruning allows regulation of fruit maturation.
Really "delicate" cultivar, not adapted to mechanical growing systems.

Production
Average and reasonably consistent.

Grape harvest
Medium-late. Machine harvesting with caution in order not to damage
vines.

Resistance to diseases: moderate, more sensitive to botrytis in
clones with compact cluster.

Wine organoleptic evaluation: gives a wine of red color... with smell
of violets, acidic, elevated tannins, full body, vinous, not lacking
in finesse but somewhat disharmonic.

Vinification of Corvina is (usually) not as a varietal, but blended
with other grapes of Rondinella, Molinara, Rossignola, etc. ending as
a highly regarded wine of Valpolicella, Valpantena, Bardolino, etc.

With late harvest and special winemaking techniques and blending with
other cultivars it produces the Recioto and the Amarone.

Corvina Veronese Rauscedo 6: cluster is medium, semi-compact,
cylindrical-pyramidal, winged; berries medium-small with good and
constant production;  it has good resistance to botrytis. Gives a
full-bodied wine with (later maturation?).

Others clones available:  ISV-cv7, ISV-cv13, ISV-cv48, ISV-cv78.

---------
Cheers everyone.
D. Tesic

--- In ampelography@y..., Vanclaybor@a... wrote:
> Thanks Marco. Sadly, I dont understand Italian. It wil take me a
> couple of days to round up someone who does. Does that article say
> anything about winter hardiness?
>
>
>
> --- In ampelography@y..., "La Bidul - Wine Tasting Society
Garbagnate
> & Groane" <labidul@h...> wrote:
> > If of any use...
> >
> > Marco de Donà.
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp