Another very interesting read is the 1957 book by Henriette Mertz, " The
Nephatali".  Her treatise showed strong relationships to early Israelite
traditions.  Worth a read!



--- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, TRAYLOROO <trayloroo@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Very interesting letter.  In particular the part about the Mandan Indians
alerted me.  As I recall, their language and their appearance seemed to have a
strong European root. I wonder if we could test that theory with a DNA test?
>  
> For more information, enter in your search window  MANDAN INDIAN
>  
> Cal
>
>  
>  
> ======================================
>
> From: Ted Sojka <tedsojka@...>
> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] a letter shedding
> To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 9:17 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I got this note from a teacher in Milwaukee  about a relative at the time of
the event I have been writing about.  Ted
>
>
> My great-great grandfather was a German missionary named Ottmar Cloeter.
Pastor Cloeter his wife and children (including my great grandmother Wilhelmina)
were alerted of a Dakota attack. They were the only white family that survived
Fort Ridgely. 
> Ottmar Cloeter translated the Bible into Chippewa. He was known to be a friend
of the native people. They called him Pastor Bad Speaker not because he was bad,
but because they thought German sounded so ugly. 
> Pastor Cloeter was the founding pastor of Concordia St. Paul. His life long
love of the native Americans began when his parents sent him on a grand tour. He
traveled with a painter to the Mandan country. Ottmar Cloeter vowed to return to
America and donate his fortune Of course, when he returned, the Mandans were all
gone from measles. 
>
>
>
> Elizabeth Getman
>

My apologies if some of you receive the AAPS Newsletter, but here are links to two upcoming AAPS events which I have listed in Ancient Waterways Society posts.  Please keep updated at the AAPS web site for changes and additions:  http://aaapf.org/scripts/openExtra.asp?extra=1 
 
1st AAPS SYMPOSIUM on ANCIENT COPPER, Houghton & Upper Michigan's Copper Country, July 10-12, 2009
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_waterways_society/message/1015
 
5th Annual AAPS CONFERENCE ON ANCIENT AMERICA, Sept 24-27, 2009  Holiday Inn, Marquette, MI
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_waterways_society/message/1016

Sincerely,
 
 Susan  Belding English
ANCIENT WATERWAYS SOCIETY
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_waterways_society/
 
 AAPS-Rydholm Postcard for Float Copper & Keweenaw museum land:
http://www.aaapf.org/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=44

THE ATLANTIC CONFERENCE
http://www.atlanticconference.org/

"The ancient scientific and spiritual wisdom that has shaped our past and still influences our future is part of a forgotten and often hidden system that reaches back beyond the current established religions, further than Ancient Egypt into an age where Mankind lived in harmony with Nature."
 
Crichton Miller (UK) from his book The Golden Thread of Time

Cal,

If the AAPS museum ever becomes a reality, I am sure a lot of Fred's
things will go there, but that could be a long, long time.  They need
$340,000 just for the copper slab and land.  The lovely
architecturally-designed building, furnishings/showcases, staffing,
insurance, .  If not, then June---and I would guess the Rydholm's
sons---will inherit his collection of books, papers, etc.  Probably
similar to Barry Fell's collection...was it you, Cal,  or someone else
who told me awhile back that Barry's son has much of his dad's
collection?

"Viking" research expert, Marion Dahm's items I believe are still being
examined and has a daughter and granddaughter, I believe, who are
probably taking charge of some of these things. As mentioned before, I
traveled and camped with Marion Dahm half a dozen times across the Upper
Peninsula, south shore of Lake Superior and down the western side of
Lake Michigan and Door County during the late 80's and 90's, early 2000
prior to conferences and when he was following leads for mooring stones
and underwater artifacts.  During these trips he carried with him a
couple of suitcases of well-documented artifacts he had found, been
given,  or purchased, plus he had the beforementioned shelves of signed,
out of print books,  a few quite rare.  And other items.  AWS members
Judi Rudebusch and possibly Frode might know more about their
whereabouts or dispensation of Marion's diffusionist research and
collections, but I am sure people connected with the Kensington Museum
are also helping go through things related to his extensive KRS work.

AAPS member, Jeff Bennett is going through some of the letters,
photographs and maps Marion mailed to me through the years.  I wish I
had kept everything he sent, but kind of fell into this diffusionist
area of thought and research about the time I  met Marion at a
conference in Utah (he threw up on me the minute he opened the door of
his motel room to meet me at the same conference where I met you, Cal).
Marion said he had food poisoning from a hotel sandwich, but he made me
his nurse (which he did not need) when he said I did not flicker an
eyelash over it.    Anyway, I did not know the seriousness of what so
many of you are doing the first few years and discarded letters from
Marion, Fred Rydholm, etc.

To many, diffusionist inquiry and scientific research is not a hobby or
we vs. the 'archaeologists' competition...nor people vying to correct a
few frivolous details such as 'who came here first!'.  Listening to
Marion's campside and conference talks about the Olhman family and the
Kensington Runesstone made me realize how very seious this all is.  And
he was continually evolving in his work....he had me design and print
stationary for him that he was also taking his pre-Viking research back
5000+ years.

I hope Jeff Bennett will join AWS and keep us personallly posted on work
and insights he and others have in relationship to the careful
documentation of Marion and others...and the Copper Trail Jeff is part
of.   I hope a journal comes as a result of Marion's letters and the
collaborative work of many.  He certainly was a group person---the more
the merrier--shared liberally what he was working on,  enjoyed having
people with him...frequently wrote of and spoke with enthusiasm about
many he knew far better than I.  Also tied closely with Henrietta Mertz
and others...I will have to re-read some of his letters when Jeff gets
them back to me.  I am sure he is photocopying them, which is good.
Eventually I will give them to Kensington.   Judi, Frode...you must have
a number of letters from him, too.

Am at the library and must sign off.

Susan






--- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, TRAYLOROO
<trayloroo@...> wrote:
>
>
> Susan et al:
>
> Fred Rydholm's collection, will it survive his death .... or be
trashed?
>
> The Internet library is a good idea, but some central place we need to
collect all the paper and artifacts.
>
> Just imagine if Barry Fell had started such a museum.
>
> Cal
>
>
>
> ===========================================
>
> From: Susan beldingenglish@...
> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] date change-World Explorers Club
Conf. to June13th, C.Illinois
> To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 10:54 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I need to make corrections to my previous post below re: the upcoming
World Explorers Club Spring Conference. This morning just happened to
check the World Explorers Club web site and found the conference has
been changed from May 16th to June 13th!  It took my scheduler weeks to
find RN subs for three 12 hour weekend shifts.  I will lose two or three
days of work, and hope to get back a deposit to the Bed & Breakfast as
doubt can get rescheduled again next month.
>
> On the phone with Jerry Smith at WEX this AM, seems to me he did not
find out long ago himself; WEX apparently does not have an E-mailing
list of previous conference attendees or bookstore clients to inform
people of updates, changes, etc.  I told Jerry I will send him an Invite
and suggest he let us know of upcoming events/changes for World
Explorers Club, Adventures Unlimited Press & Bookstore, etc.  I know
they are busy, but so are many of us.
>
> Please forward this to non-AWS members who might be driving to Central
Illinois this weekend. WEX conferences are a great deal of fun in a
friendly town with a diverse group of serious diffusionist researchers
from many parts of the world.  I shall be sorry to miss this since there
has not been one for years down there.
>
> I am enjoying the current dialogue the past week here at AWS, admire
the group for the continuing polite, well mannered, yet courageous and
sincere posts by quite a number of you.
> I have a few things to say about a library, museum, but, as with my
other economically Yahkee conservative- traditionalist ideas on the
design,  expense, and possible in'debtedness' of the AAPS museum, as
currently proposed, my ideas do not coincide well to the ideas and
aspirations of the majority at AAPS (or here).  Hence why I, as one
among the founders of AAPS (and forerunners of AAPS), declined being on
their Board there, when asked.  I do promote the heart of the
organization and its members beyond the physical artifact/museum/
fundraising aspect of it.  Their online virtual "museum" works very well
and field trips have always been extremely educational, reasonable in
cost, homey, close to Nature,  and 'non institutional' .
>
> I may not be in agreement or allegiance to such ideas, but I am
certainly in alliance with the heart of what all are doing in these
efforts toward uncovering and preservation of deeper, underlying
Universal truths that we can not just study and archive, but  "live"the
truths of.
>
> Thus said, I certainlyh do support Fred Rydholm and AAPS...to the best
of my abilitiy, from the heart of things quantum and Universal, that
spans many dimensions of scientific and spiritual inquiry beyond the
mere physical.
>
> Re: the 'forgive us our trespasses' brought up in previous posts,
many say "debtors", and besides the literal debtedness mentioned
earlier, "debtors" goes beyond physical connotations.  My concern is not
so much on "trespasses" or trespassing on you here,  but on the
forgiveness part.  Which I very much expect to see scripture-reading
religious "living" rather than merely archiving, preserving, and "aping"
the words from physical texts ad infinitum.  I'd rather see a bit of
trespassing on beliefs here if being kind.  polite. and not
egotistically attacking anyone or their beliefs and people are seeking
deeper, larger truths.   I suspect people at Ancient Waterways are
strong enough to forgive if well-intendedly said 'truths' offend anyone
or seem 'negative' to the status quo.  Laying the facts out on the
table....facts can be variable, diverse, yet still be part of the larger
picture and universal truths.
>
> I am in agreement about a virtual 'library' and 'museum' and it is
being said well here, so I may not need to add my input directly here.
>
> I am CC'ing this to David HatcherChildress and Jerry Smith that we
would appreciate being kept posted personally about their events. It is
difficult for me to keep the activities of so many people and terrific
groups such as World Explorers Club updated.  I enjoy advertising groups
and people but touting such things second-hand without input from the
source, one runs the risk of mis-information.
>
> Jim Scherz with no accessible computer for months popped in here last
night to take me out for my birthday/Mother' s Day.  Notebook in hand,
he read your posts from the past week or two, said he always looks
forward to the great information and your web sites, spent an hour
reading.  He does not stop here often but will be back tomorrow with his
girfriend Laurie from a visit to see his mother.  Tomorrow is his
birthday tomorrow, and he will read these posts coming in today and
tomorrow.  Jim and I are not often in agreement, and yet remain friends.
Frankly, the better of me in relationship to things diffusionist come
from you here at Ancient Waterways Society.  Without this site and this
group, I'd spend more time doing global emergency disaster relief
efforts, of which I am better at.  And enjoy immensely, takes me long
distances.
>
> Thanks for solid research as well as insights in all posts to this
site.  I am here as long as I have a role giving you the heart of the
best I know on these subjects.  I hope to trespass at Vince's and
Sherry's in New Orleans for the October virtual Atlantic Conference and
pay them back with the best I know in helping provide hospitality to the
duo and whoever else is down there.
>
> Susan
> --- In ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com, "Susan"
<beldingenglish@ ...> wrote:
> > I recently received emails from both David HC and Jerry Smith @ the
> > World Explorers Club and Adventures Unlimited Press about an
upcoming
> > 1-2 day informal event in Central Illinois. Please keep checking the
> > WEX web site for verification of the event, and details:
> >
> > http://www.wexclub. com/index. html <http://www.wexclub. com/index.
html>
> >
> > May 16, 2009---World Explorers Club: one+ day event w/speakers all
day
> > Saturday and Friday cocktail party at the Adventures Unlimited
Bookstore
> > in Kempton, Illinois (population: 200), homebase and clubhouse of
> > explorer & author David Hatcher-Childress & his wife Jennifer Bolm.
> >
> > I have very much enjoyed previous conferences there, likely will
attend
> > this one, possibly set up a small flea market table on their main
> > street. If any of you AWS members come to the event, please feel
free
> > to home base for conversation around my tent and table. I generally
> > spend 2-3 nights at a reasonably priced farmhouse B&B just outside
> > Kempton run by a former Peace Corps member and his wife. The
informal
> > Greenhouse Bed & Breakfast now has space at the farm for camping.
MSE
>
>
> M. Susan English
> ANCIENT WATERWAYS SOCIETY
> http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ ancient_waterway s_society/
> AAPS-Rydholm Postcard for Float Copper & Keweenaw museum land:
> http://www.aaapf. org/scripts/ prodView. asp?idproduct= 44
> THE ATLANTIC CONFERENCE
> http://www.atlantic conference. org/
>
> "The ancient scientific and spiritual wisdom that has shaped our past
and still influences our future is part of a forgotten and often hidden
system that reaches back beyond the current established religions,
further than Ancient Egypt into an age where Mankind lived in harmony
with Nature."
>
> Crichton Miller (UK) from his book The Golden Thread of Time
>

Cal, Vince, Stan, and others.

Regarding the discussion about the proposed digital storage, card catalog and reference source list which could be made available to all members here---great idea.

Cal, I have not spoken to you about the Atlantic Conferences, but many from this group were heaviy involved with the three day conference last August in Nova Scotia.  An online "virtual" Atlantic Conference will be held October 10 & 11 this year, possibly to extend into a second weekend.  Participants may watch and engage directly in this next Atlantic Conference  from their home computers, libraries,  universities, etc.  Or have the fun of hosting or joining one of many unlimited "podcasts" around the world. 

The cataloguing being discussed by Cal, Vince, and others at this site made me think of what an attribute these udeas might be if brought forward into the October Atlantic Conference.  If successful, it could thus evolve from there.  I do hope Steve St. Clair and other AC founders are reading posts and following your lines of thought here...

Cal and other newcomers here.....from the Atlantic Conference Home Page link below, scroll down and left, click atop Mi'cmaq Chief Steve Augustine's photo for a brief video clip of the confernce:  http://www.atlanticconference.org/index.htm     Presenting on the YouTube you should recall Dr. Gunnar Thompson from Ancient American conferences in Provo and SLC during the early 90's. Several other PhD archaologists ( Dr, Neal Steed, et al), researcher William Donato (Bimini Road), Russell Burrows, Rydolm, Wayne May, Frank Joseph, etc. spoke.  Zena Halperin...perhaps you attended also?

AWS members Steve St Clair and his cousin Stan St. Clair are among Atlantic Conference organizers, So too is Martin Carriere, Rick Osman, Lee Pennington all of whom have posted since you joined.  At the close here, I will scan the list of speakers from the AC link.  Others at Ancient Waterways may be interested in getting involved with the virtual conference, and it is suggested to keep watching their web site for updates.

I am told experienced people will help any of us who ask with the technical aspects  so that anyone will be able to tap into the conference at home or find nearby others to participate with.   The cost will be minimal, or free.  Organizers, please detail the AC to us soon as arrangements start coming together.  

On the Home Page,  click the photo galleries to see other AWS members from the conference and several days which followed, of field trips through Nova Scotia.  I am in the third gallery four photos down; Lee Pennington and his wife Joy are in the fifth.  Member David Brody is in another. 

Listening to a recent, archived Oopa Loopa Cafe interview with Rick Osman and Steve St. Claire  I heard that pod casts w/cocktail parties, field trips, group discussions,  etc. so far will be held in Australia, Scotland, New England, Nova Scotia, New England, and Norway (Frode).  Vince and hs wife Sherry offered to host one in New Orleans.  I haven't anyone within a hundred miles near here who would attend, but with a son employed at Delta Airlines in Atlanta, I can fly anywhere in the world Delta goes.  Thus hope to pack a tent, spider killer, and head to some warm or tropical last fling before the next harsh Wisconsin winter.  Which starts about then and sometimes lasts into May. 

The six set Atlantic Conference DVD's are $65 including postage, and well worth having your own copy, Cal.  I promised Vince I would loan him my set for a few weeks of viewing, then if you are interested, Cal, he could mail the set to you. And you would return it to me if someone else at AWS does not also want to view them.  Especially those not in attendance in Halifax who might wish to sponsor or attend a weekend podcast next October.  The virtual conf. will also be taped.  That plus the 6 set DVD's of the Atlantic Conference could be part of the proposed archived digital library brainstorming from these pages.  Maybe Steve St. Clair would have a set to loan for the current "loaner library"; I have mailed a number of things to people from here, myself. 

I will watch my six DVD's one more time during the next two days, then Vince, send me your mailing address and I promise to post the set to you.  Unless you accessed it after I forgot my earlier intentions.

Cal, Atlantic Conference speaker, anthropologist Romeo Hristov, PhD joined Ancient Waterways Society but has not yet posted. He teaches at a university in your home state (New Mexico). I believe his wife is a gourmet chef.  If he should decide to host a podcast in N. Mexico...Yum.  Possibilities are unlimited what each podcast organizer may do.  Prehaps a contest can be held as to which pod cast site will have had the most noteworthy field trips,  the best food,  was the most culturally or geographically diverse,  the largest, etc.  Just a few ideas to kick around. The Sinclairs-St. Clairs, Rick Osman, Wayne May and other organizers and sponsors  are looking for input.  Maybe others at AWS will want to go to New Orleans.  Vince no doubt will set up field trips to Poverty Point and other nearby sites, plus his vast cataloguing, photography, collections are on site.   Jim Scherz said he is interested in Vince's podcast, also.  Attebdees would have to know ahead how many people would be maximum for each pod cast site.

Just jawing here,  adding a few more ideas.   Susan (see below)

SPEAKERS

Dr. Benjamin B. Olshin is a professor of philosophy, history, and history of science at The University of the Arts in Philadelphia. Initially, his work looked at Greek and Roman texts dealing with cartography and exploration in the Atlantic Ocean. Later, his research turned to early European maps and texts concerning Atlantic exploration, and as a Fulbright scholar, he studied Portuguese navigations and cartography in Lisbon, Portugal. A skeptic by nature, he is nonetheless interested in an open-minded attitude towards evidence, and believes that a "systems" approach is needed to sort out the many claims concerning early ventures into the oceans. Despite his European focus, Dr. Olshin has also written on early Chinese navigation and cartography.

Romeo H. Hristov is an archaeologist specializing in Mesoamerica. He holds an undergraduate studies in archaeology from the National School of Anthropology and History of Mexico, and Ph.D. (ABD) in Prehistory/Archaeology from the University of Salamanca, Spain. At present he is an Associate of Anthropology in the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque, and currently concluding his Ph.D. dissertation and a book on possible Trans-Atlantic voyages before Columbus.
Mr. Hristov will speak about an apparent Roman terra-cotta head found in pre-Hispanic burial offering near Mexico City. Due to its discovery during controlled archaeological excavation, and in context without apparent traces of alterations, this find suggests that several centuries before the memorable voyages of Columbus and the Vikings, there had been another, perhaps accidental, crossing of the Atlantic ocean from ancient Mediterranean mariners. Recent stylistic analysis has corroborated the identification of the artifact as Roman, and thermoluminiscence (TL) age test has established its age limits between IX BC-XIII AD centuries, which is consistent with the Roman origin hypothesis. Click to learn more >>>

Mark and Wendy Phillips of the Anishinaabe Tribe have carried the teachings of their people for many years and preserve it for future generations. Now, as directed by their teachers, the time has come to share with the wider world those stories that speak of one people separated by many years who soon will be reunited. They also will share the stories of early contact, including those which happened many years before Columbus. Mark has carried the stories of his teacher, Wilson Ashkewe for over 35 years. Wendy's family carries a prophesy for the Anishinaabe people. The preservation of these teachings has been the work of their life.

Danny Hennigar, author and amateur historian, has long been fascinated by the history of Oak Island. In 1973 he got what he describes as his "dream job" when he became an Oak Island tour guide hired by the Nova Scotia Provincial Department of Tourism. Since that time, Mr. Hennigar has diligently researched the history of Nova Scotia's longest running and most famous treasure hunt. He is a respected member of the Oak Island Tourism Society dedicated to establishing a world class tourism project on the famous island. He is also a founder of Explore Oak Island Days, a festival celebrating the mystery of Oak Island.
He describes himself as "no wide eyed believer" in everything that has been written about Oak Island and is very pragmatic and realistic about his approach to this mystery. He has been on local, regional and international radio shows, regional television, participated in several national and international documentaries and has written extensively about this subject. He is sought after by researchers, authors, film makers and theorists for advise, opinions, material and knowledge. He hopes you will allow your ears and mind to open wide while he speaks about Oak Island. 
Click here to learn more >>

Richard White, a native of New London, Connecticut, is an author and historian. His latest work is an account of the Sinclair expedition, These Stones Bear Witness.  Its aim is to provide a clear-headed look at the evidence of the Sinclair voyage of 1398 and, in particular, the influence of Scandinavia's Queen Margrete.  Margrete I's ambitious unification of Norway, Sweden and Denmark, as well as the Orkney, Shetland and Faroe Islands, brought together a short-lived empire in the North Atlantic and Henry Sinclair was her premier Earl.  Mr. White earned a bachelor's degree at the red-brick state college in New Britain, CT, where he majored in English.  He went on to acquire an M.A. at Trinity in Hartford.

Diane E. Wirth spent 10 years researching and meticulously documenting the similarities between two ancient, venerable civilizations - Mesoamerica and the ancient Middle East - and presents convincing evidence that the similarities in customs, beliefs and iconography of these two cultures are likely more than coincidence. Diane has a B.A. from Brigham Young University and was a post-graduate student at Harvard University. She has journeyed extensively throughout Mexico and Central America, including seven weeks of travel with the renowned Mayanist, the late Dr. Linda Schele (recognized as one of the best epigraphers in the field). For more than 30 years, Diane has studied ancient Mesoamerican cultures, specializing in iconography, mythology, religion and cultural traditions. Diane has delivered over 50 lectures on these topics and has authored numerous articles for journals, magazines and digests as well as her book, "Parallels: Mesoamerican and Ancient Middle Eastern Traditions."
Click here to learn more >> 

Garth V. Norman is President of the Ancient America Foundation (AAF) for professional and scriptural archaeology research, and is Director of Archaeological Research Consultants (ARCON Inc.). He began his professional archaeology career in 1965 and worked as a research associate with the BYU-New World Archaeological Foundation's Izapa, Mexico project, completing the major work on the Izapa Sculpture project in 1976, which includes the Stela 5 Tree of Life stone. These are statues depicting bearded figures. It is a fact that American Indians do not have enough facial hair to grow beards. He has graduate degrees in Ancient Scripture and in Archaeology/Anthropology, and has had a life-long research interest in archaeology exploration of the Book of Mormon. He is working on a book focusing on the origin and development of early mesoamerican temple centers.
Click here to learn more >>

Stephen J. Augustine is Hereditary Chief on the Mi'kmaq Grand Council, Curator of Ethnology for Eastern Maritimes, in the Ethnology Services, Division of the Canadian Museum of Civilization , Gatineau, Quebec.  He obtained a Bachelor of Arts in Anthropology and Political Science from St. Thomas University (New Brunswick), and also holds a Master of Arts in Canadian Studies from Carleton University (Ottawa, Ontario. Over the years, he has shared his expertise in research and traditional knowledge with many organizations, including the Assembly of First Nations, government departments, and various Aboriginal communities across Canada. He has organized cross-cultural workshops for a wide variety of agencies (the United Nations as well as federal and provincial universities and museums). His recent book, Mi'kmaq & Maliseet Cultural Ancestral Material (Mercury Series, CMC, 2005), promises to be a valuable resource for academic researchers and educators alike. In his role as a Hereditary Chief on the Mi'kmaq Grand Council, and by Elders' training since an early age, Stephen J. Augustine has a thorough command of traditional practices, his language, and the history of his people.
Click here to learn more >>

Gunnar Thompson, Ph.D., an author and anthropologist, has been called "the Sherlock Holmes" of American History. Among his most notable achievements are the discovery of the Omnibus Power Sign—which proved ancient contact between China and Mexico, and the discovery of Albertin di Virga's 1414 Map which includes North and South America nearly a century before Columbus. He is the author of several controversial books including Nu Sun, American Discovery, The Friar's Map, and Secret Voyages to the New World. The Norwegian adventurer Thor Heyerdahl endorsed Gunnar's first book about voyages by the ancient Chinese to Mexico in 300 BC. The Smithsonian archeologist, Betty Meggers, called him "the vanguard of a new generation of scholars." In May of 2005, he gave a presentation about Marco Polo's West Coast voyages at the Library of Congress. In March of 2006, he was awarded the Zheng He Trophy in Beijing for his work on the Ming World Map. This map features a Chinese version of North and South America nearly a century before Columbus.
Click here to learn more >>

Michael Thrasher (KA-WHYWA-WEET) is a nationally recognized Métis teacher of Anishinabi First Nations philosophy, tradition and culture. He was initiated into pre contact traditional teachings and ceremonies by the Elders of his community. These ancient traditions came from spiritual teachers with a lineage dating back to the early civilization of First Nation's.  In addition, he was the co-chair of the first Round Table Hearings for the Royal Commission in Edmonton. His contacts and experience extend from the grass roots of the First Nations community to the offices of governments and multi-national corporations. He will be speaking on ancient Native traditions regarding early trans-Atlantic contact.
Click here to learn more >>

Scott F. Wolter P.G. is a geologist by trade and owns American Petrographic Services in St. Paul, Minnesota. He will be speaking on the Kensington Runestone. Eminent geologists and complete skeptics of the authenticity of the much-debated stone have walked away from a presentation by Mr. Wolter utterly convinces of it's history as a relic of very early Norse visitation to Minnesota. Scott Wolter worked to bring the Runestone to a modern geophysics laboratory so that the chiseling of the runes and the weathering of the stone could be examined under high-power scanning. His work raised the probability that the Kensington Stone is authentic, Alice Kehoe agreed to assist in presenting this research to the 2000 Plains/Midwest Archaeological Conference. Preparing an introduction to the session, Kehoe looked at the historical situation in Scandinavia in 1362 and found it to be in economic and political crisis, likely to stimulate efforts to extend the Canadian Maritimes Norse/Indian/Inuit trade up the St. Lawrence, into the Great Lakes and west –trade routes used for centuries by Indians. Alice B. Kehoe refers to Wolter as "a hard scientist...who understands the methodology of science and inference, from data, to the best explanation. As Kehoe says, "The notion that the Kensington Runestone is a hoax is not supported by contemporary data."  Click to learn more >>

Martin Carriere is a highly tenacious, forward thinking, accomplished business professional and social community builder. Past involvement in professional marketing and corporate fundraising, Metis and Native art promotion and marketing, International Games Industry, Corporate Barter Exhange owner and manager, independant contractor, lazure artist, percussionist and community growth facilitator. Over 30 years experience in genealogical and historic Metis and related research, Previous involvement in a variety of indigenous and social community boards and committees. Current executive member of the Canadian Metis Council, member of the advisory councils for the Sinclair Family DNA Research Project and the Atlantic Conference, and the Metis Community Development Corporation. Currently heading a Metis and Native dna research project. Also currently involved in protecting traditional historic and sacred sites. With a strong belief that service is the key to community progression and that by building strong and healthy community we ensure a quality experience for our grandchildren and future generations. 

_______________________________________________
--- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, TRAYLOROO <trayloroo@...> wrote:

> Vince:
>  
> Thank for helping to row forward ... Some good ideas. 
>  
> From your email, it comes to mind one of us readers might become the home-page web-master of a read-only list of hot links to web sites in our area of interest.  There needs to be two or more people with the pass word to change the home-page. There are too many web sites in limbo, the web master died or fussed-off and no one has the key to access and service the site.
>  
> Maybe we have a reader that will take this idea in some form, and run with it.
>  
> Your idea of a digital storage place should be included in what I just propsed above.
>  
> Cal
>
>
>  
>  ===================================
>
> From: Vincent Barrows v_barrows@...
> Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_society] ESTABLISH A MUSEUM - LIBRARY
> To: trayloroo@...
> Cc: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 11:01 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cal;
> Your suggestion of a museum or library for curation of the artifacts and books is a good one. Our group should take up the responsibility for preserving these materials and making them accessible to the public. 
>  
> I have been thinking for some time about creating a card catalog and reference source list that is available to all members of Ancient Waterways Society. This could include books, video, microfilm, etc for study of our shared interest in ancient cultures.
> We could develop a method for checking out such media sources, and time frame for returning them. For example, just pay for media mail shipping. For rare sources and artifacts, these could be accessible in our archives. Susan English may provide direction on locations for archives of such artifacts and media sources.
>  
> I have started by making several public sources for archiving photos of collections and media sources that may be of interest to the group.
>
> http://www.freewebs .com/historyofmo nksmound/ welchbutterfly. htm The Wilmington, Ohio Discoveries
> http://tinyurl. com/c3amyt Sacred Scroll Southern Ojibway
> http://www.freewebs .com/historyofmo nksmound/ History of Monks Mound website
> http://tinyurl. com/c4a34c World Pyramids website
> http://tinyurl. com/d3h92y Message of Civilization Website
> http://www.scribd. com/Marburg72 scribd website
> http://s243. photobucket. com/albums/ ff280/Marburg72/ photobucket website
>  
> Thanks
> Vince Barrows
> Co-chair Ancient Waterways Society
>
> --- On Mon, 5/11/09, TRAYLOROO trayloroo@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>
> From: TRAYLOROO <>
> Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_ society] ESTABLISH A MUSEUM - LIBRARY
> To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
> Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 11:26 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> STONE - BURROWS CAVE
>
> Vince:
>  
> My stone has a beautifully etched scene of two adult man figures rowing a canoe, a boat, and they seem to be guided by the sun or moon and star. Beautiful work, as are most of the stones from this ancient library. Supposedly there were about 10,000 such stones in that collection, which I will call a "library."  
>  
> At the time I received it (a gift) I showed a copy of the scene to many people with knowledge of astronomy.  Not one answer.
>  
> Thanks for the tip.  Will do it.
>
> Cal
>  
>  
>  ============ ========= ========= ===
>
> From: Vincent Barrows v_barrows@yahoo. com>
> Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_ society] ESTABLISH A MUSEUM - LIBRARY
> To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
> Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 6:34 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cal:
> I would like to add any etched stones to this virtual museum, located at the following link:
> http://www.freewebs .com/historyofmo nksmound/ entableture. htm
>  
> Kindly send a photo and it will be archived for posterity.
> Best regards;
> Vince
>
> --- On Sun, 5/10/09, TRAYLOROO trayloroo@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>
> From: TRAYLOROO trayloroo@yahoo. com>
> Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_ society] ESTABLISH A MUSEUM - LIBRARY
> To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
> Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 11:39 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ted:
>  
> You mention the expense of a museum. That is why I thought an operational motel or hotel would need little or no subsidy.  I have an etched stone from Burrows Cave.  If I drop dead, what will happen to that?  Even now, what would I do with that?  Send to our new museum?  I am certain there are many collections of books and artifacts that will go to the dump when the owner dies. Even if the owner has instructions in the box, the executor may not abide.  I have seen it happen.
>  
> The collected items I shipped to a place _____ may be lost to me.  Maybe they will be passed on after that scoundrel dies of old age .... which I would not wish to happen later than this week or so ...  My collection certainly was not world class, but some of the books were out of print. 
>  
> Cal
>  
>  ============ ========= ========= =======
>
> From: Ted Sojka tedsojka@mchsi. com>
> Subject: Re: [ancient_waterways_ society] ANCIENT WATERWAYS - ESTABLISH A MUSEUM - LIBRARY
> To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
> Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 9:03 PM
>
>
>
>
> No there is no such place and if all the places that do exist would put their information on line, it could be shared by the world from your own home.  Did you go to the Mankato Museum site that I sent you.  It is not perfect, but it is a start.  The things that Vince Barrow has put on line are of great value.  Museums building need money and foundations.  They take eons to share their material and change their paradigms.  
>
>
> I love going to museums and spent a lot of learning time in them growing up.  I spent a career taking students to museums and watching them learn.  I do love them.  
>
>
>
> Going to meeting to discuss things with others is always great after some research is done.  I remember going to one at the U of Iowa on the Oneota culture.  This was a few years before DNA was at the center of the stage.  The stars were the linguists who could trace words back a few hundred years to their routes.  They impressed me, a poor relic of the stratigraphy of pottery days for dating finds.   Their ability to hear dialects, understand them and speak them, was quite an accomplishment.  Not the dazzle of digging up King Tut, but they added to knowledge of trails back in time that can't be followed easily.  
>
>
> To be able to speak these languages when so many are being lost as we discuss the matter right here.  The last speaker of an Alaskan language is being recorded so others might relearn the language and teach it those of the culture who have no experience with it.  I hope it is not too late.  
>
>
>  
>
>
> On May 10, 2009, at 6:05 PM, TRAYLOROO wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                  MUSEUM - LIBRARY 
>
>  
> Ted, et al:
>  
> Also, what is your opinion about the museum-library idea and ... where to put it?  Starting from ground zero, I was wondering if there was a nice old motel or hotel near a hot-spot worthy of protecting.  One section for museum-library, the other section for nightly rent ... to researchers and others.
>  
> Maybe I am too late, has this already been solved?
>  
> Cal
>

As I wrote Cal, I knew ideas would come from the group about a museum.
Thanks to all those thinking about it and those who have written in.

I love the idea of an online conference for those, who find travel
difficult.

Ted

PS What will be needed to view the conference as far as software and
hardware?

Ted,

You certainly are among those sparking ideas toward the online
museum/library, possible loaner library.  Linking it to the October
online Atlantic Conference,  which could draw hundreds of attendees,
might be a real boon.  Look at how many authors we have here at Ancient
Wateways, who are also affiliated with Midwestern Epigraphic, the
Atlantic Conference, Oopa Loopa Cafe, AAPF, etc.  who would probably
want to participate.  This ties with the cooperative venture...what is
the acronym?....that Rick Osman is talking about lately..  I am loosely
involved with all of these organizations and people.  As well as others
but makes it difficult if most are fundraising at the same time, or
trying to keep up with conference fees, travel expenses,  and $100/night
hotel rooms at each of these, which usually take place at expensive
instititions such as conference centers.  I used to work hard and then
get entry fees waived, but am not so involved as I used to be.  Easing
back toward voluntary nursing and emergency relief, which I am probably
more proficient at, where base expenses are covered.

Ted, are you considering having a podcast from your home or public
facility?  I wonder if any other members here are interested in
attending or acting as hosts.  Rick Osman will have an Oopa Loopa Cafe
pod in S. Indiana; William Smith offered to set up one with his THOR
group in Ohio.

I too am waiting to hear about software and equipment.   Steve St. Clair
said he is going to have some kind of a large screen so a larger crowd
may watch from wherever he decides to set up for the weekend.  I'd
assume near NYC or NJ.  Judi Rudebusch, are you hosting one in SD? (If
so, she is a very fine cook and hostess......)   MSE



--- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka
<tedsojka@...> wrote:
>
> As I wrote Cal, I knew ideas would come from the group about a museum.
> Thanks to all those thinking about it and those who have written in.
>
> I love the idea of an online conference for those, who find travel
> difficult.
>
> Ted
>
> PS What will be needed to view the conference as far as software and
> hardware?
>
--- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, Ted Sojka
<tedsojka@...> wrote:
>
> As I wrote Cal, I knew ideas would come from the group about a museum.
> Thanks to all those thinking about it and those who have written in.
>
> I love the idea of an online conference for those, who find travel
> difficult.
>
> Ted
>
> PS What will be needed to view the conference as far as software and
> hardware?
>

Cal,

The article, copper slab mentioned is a mystery to me; I've not seen
that article nor heard Fred mention it.  I will ask AAPS secretary Judy
Johnson and her husband Glenn, AAPS president, about it, both very close
to the Rydholms.

If  you get together with Dr. Hristov sometime, ask him if he has data
or sees some direct connections between some of the Mississippi Riverway
mound areas, ie, Cahokia and MesoAmerica, which is his area of
expertise?  Vince can word it far better...

If you see Romeo, please tell him to watch for posts at this site and
updates on the Atlantic Conference.  We will have to be sure to be
specific in our Subject bars and cascade replies related to the subjects
so it is easier to follow a sequence of posts.  To do so, click "Reply"
to messages  rather than clicking 'Post" and starting a totally new
message.

Dr. Hristov might recall my taking him and another attendee to lunch at
a Turkish restaurant; he had just flown in, was hungry, and we walked
half a mile from St. Mary's University looking for something to eat
while the conference room was being set up.  Perhaps he would give input
or have experience with some of the ideas you are suggesting, digital
libraries, museums, etc.  A very cordial gentleman;  after conversing
with him for a bit, you will pick up what he is saying without any
difficulty..

   --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, TRAYLOROO
<trayloroo@...> wrote:
>
>
>  To Susan, et al:
>
> Some replies to Susan's letter at bottom.
>
> MARQUETTE  Where I attended an Elderhostel. Pretty place.  Locals
spoke of unusual glyphs, access via boat rides, but boat rides did not
materialize.  The idea still appeals to me.  The town of "UP" is where?
>
> COPPER  SLAB  AUTHENTICATED
>
> Below, you mention Romero. He is at UNM Albuquerque, 222 miles north
of my home.  I was there last week and used the parking lot next to his
building .... I visited their three libraries.
> Romeo Hristov's Web Page
>
>
> Book on-line, with many photos of etched stones, an ancient library:
> The Saga of Burrows Cave
>
>
> Spent the morning In Juarez, Mexico.  The Mexican Army is making
no-nonsense efforts at the border to stop drugs leaving Mexico ... and
stop guns enterning Mexico.  Three cheers. And, another three cheers.
The Mexican business is down more than 50% said my host.  The lines
waiting to enter USA were down 80%, had been over an hour in-line to
re-enter USA at El Paso..
>
> Still no answer from email to the Midwestern Epigraphic Society.
>
> Cal  Traylor
>
> cc:  Dr. T  (Mexico)
>
>
> =====================================
>
> From: Susan beldingenglish@...
> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: date change-World Explorers
Club Conf. to June13th, C.Illinois
> To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 1:51 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cal,
>
> If the AAPS museum ever becomes a reality, I am sure a lot of Fred's
> things will go there, but that could be a long, long time. They need
> $340,000 just for the copper slab and land. The lovely
> architecturally- designed building, furnishings/ showcases, staffing,
> insurance, . If not, then June---and I would guess the Rydholm's
> sons---will inherit his collection of books, papers, etc. Probably
> similar to Barry Fell's collection.. .was it you, Cal, or someone else
> who told me awhile back that Barry's son has much of his dad's
> collection?
>
> "Viking" research expert, Marion Dahm's items I believe are still
being
> examined and has a daughter and granddaughter, I believe, who are
> probably taking charge of some of these things. As mentioned before, I
> traveled and camped with Marion Dahm half a dozen times across the
Upper
> Peninsula, south shore of Lake Superior and down the western side of
> Lake Michigan and Door County during the late 80's and 90's, early
2000
> prior to conferences and when he was following leads for mooring
stones
> and underwater artifacts. During these trips he carried with him a
> couple of suitcases of well-documented artifacts he had found, been
> given, or purchased, plus he had the beforementioned shelves of
signed,
> out of print books, a few quite rare. And other items. AWS members
> Judi Rudebusch and possibly Frode might know more about their
> whereabouts or dispensation of Marion's diffusionist research and
> collections, but I am sure people connected with the Kensington Museum
> are also helping go through things related to his extensive KRS work.
>
> AAPS member, Jeff Bennett is going through some of the letters,
> photographs and maps Marion mailed to me through the years. I wish I
> had kept everything he sent, but kind of fell into this diffusionist
> area of thought and research about the time I met Marion at a
> conference in Utah (he threw up on me the minute he opened the door of
> his motel room to meet me at the same conference where I met you,
Cal).
> Marion said he had food poisoning from a hotel sandwich, but he made
me
> his nurse (which he did not need) when he said I did not flicker an
> eyelash over it. Anyway, I did not know the seriousness of what so
> many of you are doing the first few years and discarded letters from
> Marion, Fred Rydholm, etc.
>
> To many, diffusionist inquiry and scientific research is not a hobby
or
> we vs. the 'archaeologists' competition. ..nor people vying to correct
a
> few frivolous details such as 'who came here first!'. Listening to
> Marion's campside and conference talks about the Olhman family and the
> Kensington Runesstone made me realize how very seious this all is. And
> he was continually evolving in his work....he had me design and print
> stationary for him that he was also taking his pre-Viking research
back
> 5000+ years.
>
> I hope Jeff Bennett will join AWS and keep us personallly posted on
work
> and insights he and others have in relationship to the careful
> documentation of Marion and others...and the Copper Trail Jeff is part
> of. I hope a journal comes as a result of Marion's letters and the
> collaborative work of many. He certainly was a group person---the more
> the merrier--shared liberally what he was working on, enjoyed having
> people with him...frequently wrote of and spoke with enthusiasm about
> many he knew far better than I. Also tied closely with Henrietta Mertz
> and others...I will have to re-read some of his letters when Jeff gets
> them back to me. I am sure he is photocopying them, which is good.
> Eventually I will give them to Kensington. Judi, Frode...you must have
> a number of letters from him, too.
>
> Am at the library and must sign off.
>
> Susan
>
> --- In ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com, TRAYLOROO
> trayloroo@ ..> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Susan et al:
> >
> > Fred Rydholm's collection, will it survive his death .... or be
> trashed?
> >
> > The Internet library is a good idea, but some central place we need
to
> collect all the paper and artifacts.
> >
> > Just imagine if Barry Fell had started such a museum.
> >
> > Cal
> >
> >
> >
> > ============ ========= ========= ========= ====
> >
> > From: Susan beldingenglish@ ...
> > Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] date change-World Explorers
Club
> Conf. to June13th, C.Illinois
> > To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
> > Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 10:54 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I need to make corrections to my previous post below re: the
upcoming
> World Explorers Club Spring Conference. This morning just happened to
> check the World Explorers Club web site and found the conference has
> been changed from May 16th to June 13th! It took my scheduler weeks to
> find RN subs for three 12 hour weekend shifts. I will lose two or
three
> days of work, and hope to get back a deposit to the Bed & Breakfast as
> doubt can get rescheduled again next month.
> >
> > On the phone with Jerry Smith at WEX this AM, seems to me he did not
> find out long ago himself; WEX apparently does not have an E-mailing
> list of previous conference attendees or bookstore clients to inform
> people of updates, changes, etc. I told Jerry I will send him an
Invite
> and suggest he let us know of upcoming events/changes for World
> Explorers Club, Adventures Unlimited Press & Bookstore, etc. I know
> they are busy, but so are many of us.
> >
> > Please forward this to non-AWS members who might be driving to
Central
> Illinois this weekend. WEX conferences are a great deal of fun in a
> friendly town with a diverse group of serious diffusionist researchers
> from many parts of the world. I shall be sorry to miss this since
there
> has not been one for years down there.
> >
> > I am enjoying the current dialogue the past week here at AWS, admire
> the group for the continuing polite, well mannered, yet courageous and
> sincere posts by quite a number of you.
> > I have a few things to say about a library, museum, but, as with my
> other economically Yahkee conservative- traditionalist ideas on the
> design, expense, and possible in'debtedness' of the AAPS museum, as
> currently proposed, my ideas do not coincide well to the ideas and
> aspirations of the majority at AAPS (or here). Hence why I, as one
> among the founders of AAPS (and forerunners of AAPS), declined being
on
> their Board there, when asked. I do promote the heart of the
> organization and its members beyond the physical artifact/museum/
> fundraising aspect of it. Their online virtual "museum" works very
well
> and field trips have always been extremely educational, reasonable in
> cost, homey, close to Nature, and 'non institutional' .
> >
> > I may not be in agreement or allegiance to such ideas, but I am
> certainly in alliance with the heart of what all are doing in these
> efforts toward uncovering and preservation of deeper, underlying
> Universal truths that we can not just study and archive, but "live"the
> truths of.
> >
> > Thus said, I certainlyh do support Fred Rydholm and AAPS...to the
best
> of my abilitiy, from the heart of things quantum and Universal, that
> spans many dimensions of scientific and spiritual inquiry beyond the
> mere physical.
> >
> > Re: the 'forgive us our trespasses' brought up in previous posts,
> many say "debtors", and besides the literal debtedness mentioned
> earlier, "debtors" goes beyond physical connotations. My concern is
not
> so much on "trespasses" or trespassing on you here, but on the
> forgiveness part. Which I very much expect to see scripture-reading
> religious "living" rather than merely archiving, preserving, and
"aping"
> the words from physical texts ad infinitum. I'd rather see a bit of
> trespassing on beliefs here if being kind. polite. and not
> egotistically attacking anyone or their beliefs and people are seeking
> deeper, larger truths. I suspect people at Ancient Waterways are
> strong enough to forgive if well-intendedly said 'truths' offend
anyone
> or seem 'negative' to the status quo. Laying the facts out on the
> table....facts can be variable, diverse, yet still be part of the
larger
> picture and universal truths.
> >
> > I am in agreement about a virtual 'library' and 'museum' and it is
> being said well here, so I may not need to add my input directly here.
> >
> > I am CC'ing this to David HatcherChildress and Jerry Smith that we
> would appreciate being kept posted personally about their events. It
is
> difficult for me to keep the activities of so many people and terrific
> groups such as World Explorers Club updated. I enjoy advertising
groups
> and people but touting such things second-hand without input from the
> source, one runs the risk of mis-information.
> >
> > Jim Scherz with no accessible computer for months popped in here
last
> night to take me out for my birthday/Mother' s Day. Notebook in hand,
> he read your posts from the past week or two, said he always looks
> forward to the great information and your web sites, spent an hour
> reading. He does not stop here often but will be back tomorrow with
his
> girfriend Laurie from a visit to see his mother. Tomorrow is his
> birthday tomorrow, and he will read these posts coming in today and
> tomorrow. Jim and I are not often in agreement, and yet remain
friends.
> Frankly, the better of me in relationship to things diffusionist come
> from you here at Ancient Waterways Society. Without this site and this
> group, I'd spend more time doing global emergency disaster relief
> efforts, of which I am better at. And enjoy immensely, takes me long
> distances.
> >
> > Thanks for solid research as well as insights in all posts to this
> site. I am here as long as I have a role giving you the heart of the
> best I know on these subjects. I hope to trespass at Vince's and
> Sherry's in New Orleans for the October virtual Atlantic Conference
and
> pay them back with the best I know in helping provide hospitality to
the
> duo and whoever else is down there.
> >
> > Susan
> > --- In ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com, "Susan"
> <beldingenglish@ ...> wrote:
> > > I recently received emails from both David HC and Jerry Smith @
the
> > > World Explorers Club and Adventures Unlimited Press about an
> upcoming
> > > 1-2 day informal event in Central Illinois. Please keep checking
the
> > > WEX web site for verification of the event, and details:
> > >
> > > http://www.wexclub. com/index. html <http://www.wexclub.
com/index.
> html>
> > >
> > > May 16, 2009---World Explorers Club: one+ day event w/speakers all
> day
> > > Saturday and Friday cocktail party at the Adventures Unlimited
> Bookstore
> > > in Kempton, Illinois (population: 200), homebase and clubhouse of
> > > explorer & author David Hatcher-Childress & his wife Jennifer
Bolm.
> > >
> > > I have very much enjoyed previous conferences there, likely will
> attend
> > > this one, possibly set up a small flea market table on their main
> > > street. If any of you AWS members come to the event, please feel
> free
> > > to home base for conversation around my tent and table. I
generally
> > > spend 2-3 nights at a reasonably priced farmhouse B&B just outside
> > > Kempton run by a former Peace Corps member and his wife. The
> informal
> > > Greenhouse Bed & Breakfast now has space at the farm for camping.
> MSE
> >
> >
> > M. Susan English
> > ANCIENT WATERWAYS SOCIETY
> > http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ ancient_waterway s_society/
> > AAPS-Rydholm Postcard for Float Copper & Keweenaw museum land:
> > http://www.aaapf. org/scripts/ prodView. asp?idproduct= 44
> > THE ATLANTIC CONFERENCE
> > http://www.atlantic conference. org/
> >
> > "The ancient scientific and spiritual wisdom that has shaped our
past
> and still influences our future is part of a forgotten and often
hidden
> system that reaches back beyond the current established religions,
> further than Ancient Egypt into an age where Mankind lived in harmony
> with Nature."
> >
> > Crichton Miller (UK) from his book The Golden Thread of Time
> >
>

Good point, Cal.  I am the worse at multiple subjects piled into one
post, and I will make a strong effort to address each matter separately
or appropriately to Posts.   That alone may help.

Susan

--- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, TRAYLOROO
<trayloroo@...> wrote:

> Susan:
>
> Your "reply" idea is great .... but ... there often are several
subjects discussion each email.  You need an Editor .. a person to copy
and paste each subject under a proper heading?
>
> Cal
>
> =================================
>
> From: Susan beldingenglish@...
> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] Re: ---- MUSEUM; Dr. Hristov,
> To: ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 7:45 PM
>
> Cal,
>
> The article, copper slab mentioned is a mystery to me; I've not seen
> that article nor heard Fred mention it. I will ask AAPS secretary Judy
> Johnson and her husband Glenn, AAPS president, about it, both very
close
> to the Rydholms.
>
> If you get together with Dr. Hristov sometime, ask him if he has data
> or sees some direct connections between some of the Mississippi
Riverway
> mound areas, ie, Cahokia and MesoAmerica, which is his area of
> expertise? Vince can word it far better...
>
> If you see Romeo, please tell him to watch for posts at this site and
> updates on the Atlantic Conference. We will have to be sure to be
> specific in our Subject bars and cascade replies related to the
subjects
> so it is easier to follow a sequence of posts. To do so, click "Reply"
> to messages rather than clicking 'Post" and starting a totally new
> message.
>
> Dr. Hristov might recall my taking him and another attendee to lunch
at
> a Turkish restaurant; he had just flown in, was hungry, and we walked
> half a mile from St. Mary's University looking for something to eat
> while the conference room was being set up. Perhaps he would give
input
> or have experience with some of the ideas you are suggesting, digital
> libraries, museums, etc. A very cordial gentleman; after conversing
> with him for a bit, you will pick up what he is saying without any
> difficulty..
>
> --- In ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com, TRAYLOROO
> trayloroo@ ..> wrote:
> >
> > To Susan, et al:
> >
> > Some replies to Susan's letter at bottom.
> >
> > MARQUETTE Where I attended an Elderhostel. Pretty place. Locals
> spoke of unusual glyphs, access via boat rides, but boat rides did not
> materialize. The idea still appeals to me. The town of "UP" is where?
> >
> > COPPER SLAB AUTHENTICATED
> >
> > Below, you mention Romero. He is at UNM Albuquerque, 222 miles north
> of my home. I was there last week and used the parking lot next to his
> building .... I visited their three libraries.
> > Romeo Hristov's Web Page
> >
> >
> > Book on-line, with many photos of etched stones, an ancient library:
> > The Saga of Burrows Cave
> >
> >
> > Spent the morning In Juarez, Mexico. The Mexican Army is making
> no-nonsense efforts at the border to stop drugs leaving Mexico ... and
> stop guns enterning Mexico. Three cheers. And, another three cheers.
> The Mexican business is down more than 50% said my host. The lines
> waiting to enter USA were down 80%, had been over an hour in-line to
> re-enter USA at El Paso..
> >
> > Still no answer from email to the Midwestern Epigraphic Society.
> >
> > Cal Traylor
> >
> > cc: Dr. T (Mexico)
> > ============ ========= ========= =======
> >
> > From: Susan beldingenglish@ ...
> > Subject: [ancient_waterways_ society] Re: date change-World
Explorers
> Club Conf. to June13th, C.Illinois
> > To: ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 1:51 PM
> >
> > Cal,
> >
> > If the AAPS museum ever becomes a reality, I am sure a lot of Fred's
> > things will go there, but that could be a long, long time. They need
> > $340,000 just for the copper slab and land. The lovely
> > architecturally- designed building, furnishings/ showcases,
staffing,
> > insurance, . If not, then June---and I would guess the Rydholm's
> > sons---will inherit his collection of books, papers, etc. Probably
> > similar to Barry Fell's collection.. .was it you, Cal, or someone
else
> > who told me awhile back that Barry's son has much of his dad's
> > collection?
> >
> > "Viking" research expert, Marion Dahm's items I believe are still
> being
> > examined and has a daughter and granddaughter, I believe, who are
> > probably taking charge of some of these things. As mentioned before,
I
> > traveled and camped with Marion Dahm half a dozen times across the
> Upper
> > Peninsula, south shore of Lake Superior and down the western side of
> > Lake Michigan and Door County during the late 80's and 90's, early
> 2000
> > prior to conferences and when he was following leads for mooring
> stones
> > and underwater artifacts. During these trips he carried with him a
> > couple of suitcases of well-documented artifacts he had found, been
> > given, or purchased, plus he had the beforementioned shelves of
> signed,
> > out of print books, a few quite rare. And other items. AWS members
> > Judi Rudebusch and possibly Frode might know more about their
> > whereabouts or dispensation of Marion's diffusionist research and
> > collections, but I am sure people connected with the Kensington
Museum
> > are also helping go through things related to his extensive KRS
work.
> >
> > AAPS member, Jeff Bennett is going through some of the letters,
> > photographs and maps Marion mailed to me through the years. I wish I
> > had kept everything he sent, but kind of fell into this diffusionist
> > area of thought and research about the time I met Marion at a
> > conference in Utah (he threw up on me the minute he opened the door
of
> > his motel room to meet me at the same conference where I met you,
> Cal).
> > Marion said he had food poisoning from a hotel sandwich, but he made
> me
> > his nurse (which he did not need) when he said I did not flicker an
> > eyelash over it. Anyway, I did not know the seriousness of what so
> > many of you are doing the first few years and discarded letters from
> > Marion, Fred Rydholm, etc.
> >
> > To many, diffusionist inquiry and scientific research is not a hobby
> or
> > we vs. the 'archaeologists' competition. ..nor people vying to
correct
> a
> > few frivolous details such as 'who came here first!'. Listening to
> > Marion's campside and conference talks about the Olhman family and
the
> > Kensington Runesstone made me realize how very seious this all is.
And
> > he was continually evolving in his work....he had me design and
print
> > stationary for him that he was also taking his pre-Viking research
> back
> > 5000+ years.
> >
> > I hope Jeff Bennett will join AWS and keep us personallly posted on
> work
> > and insights he and others have in relationship to the careful
> > documentation of Marion and others...and the Copper Trail Jeff is
part
> > of. I hope a journal comes as a result of Marion's letters and the
> > collaborative work of many. He certainly was a group person---the
more
> > the merrier--shared liberally what he was working on, enjoyed having
> > people with him...frequently wrote of and spoke with enthusiasm
about
> > many he knew far better than I. Also tied closely with Henrietta
Mertz
> > and others...I will have to re-read some of his letters when Jeff
gets
> > them back to me. I am sure he is photocopying them, which is good.
> > Eventually I will give them to Kensington. Judi, Frode...you must
have
> > a number of letters from him, too.
> >
> > Am at the library and must sign off.
> >
> > Susan
> >
> > --- In ancient_waterways_ society@yahoogro ups.com, TRAYLOROO
> > trayloroo@ ..> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Susan et al:
> > >
> > > Fred Rydholm's collection, will it survive his death .... or be
> > trashed?
> > >
> > > The Internet library is a good idea, but some central place we
need
> to
> > collect all the paper and artifacts.
> > >
> > > Just imagine if Barry Fell had started such a museum.
> > >
> > > Cal
> > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ====

Investigatingpre-Columbiancontact, lost races, ancient astronomy, navigation, andmigration,cultural oddities, associated diffusion evidence and thetrulyunexplainable. Oh, and the odd musician, band, or comedian maystop by.Some are really odd…

2012 and Your Future

That no one can predict the future is a premature assumption. Wecandeclare the cosmic relationship of our sun and earth years inadvanceand thus predict certain future celestial events with a greatdegree ofaccuracy. Sometimes, however, otherwise placid celestialevents presentunthinkable results often ignored and restricted frompublic knowledgebecause of their unacceptable nature.

Al'sisnot a complicated, scientific approach involving the intricacies oftheMayan calendar, but rather a finely-illustrated andunderstandableeffort to explain how and why the Mayan Long Countcalendar began, itsimplications involving future events, and why itends in 2012 -- aunique work of art, composed for the layman.

I hope the picture will go through for you - of this Australian Digger in Afghanistan  with his tiny "plot" of grass in front of his tent.  It's heartwarming! 
Here is a soldier stationed in Afghanistan; posted to a big sand box. He asked his wifetosend him dirt (Australian soil), fertilizer, and some grass seed sothathe can smell the grass, and feel it grow beneath his feet. Whenthe menof the squadron have a mission that they are going on, theytake turnswalking through the grass in Australian soil - to bring themgood luck. 

Ifyounotice, he is even cutting the grass with a pair of ascissors.Sometimes we are in such a hurry that we don't stop and thinkabout thelittle things that we take for granted. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Possum Holler News:  Tempest

Majorstormwent through here last night (same one that caused fatalitiesinMissouri). Funnel clouds went north of us, but the rain was comingdownat about 4 inches per hour for the better part of an hour.Haven'tspied any wind damage yet, but the power was out for a while.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other news: 

Think your life is bad? Archaeologists show us worse.

Nicely done!

http://www.hiddenlandscape.com/

(Sorry if already posted, I've not been reading all the posts).

Terry

Thanks, Terry.  Beautiful site; I've not seen the nicely site before.

Three DVD's w/Previews are listed at the Hidden Landscapes site you sent under Episode List:   

"Before the Lake Was Champlain-The Untold Story of Ice Age America" (released April '09)

"The Great Falls-Discovery, Destruction, and Preservation in a Massachuetts Town" (available Summer, '09)

"The New Antiquarian-Unlocking the Mysterious Stone Ruins"

Should I decide to purchase any of  the above, I will make them available if people will pay return postage.  Vince, I am halfway done re-viewing the Atlantic Conf. DVD's.  If you would like to borrow them for a few weeks, email me your mailing address.  Cal, let me know if you want Vince to send them to  you.  Otherwise, does anyone else want to borrow them next?

Susan
--- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Terry J. Deveau" <aa376@...> wrote:
>
> Nicely done!
>
> http://www.hiddenlandscape.com/
>
> (Sorry if already posted, I've not been reading all the posts).
>
> Terry
>

RE: upcoming talks by Frank Joseph on 'the Egyptians, Vikings, Romans, Christians, etc. in America before Columbus'

I don't know too much about Mary Sutherland and the Burlington group other than people sending me articles and links to their web site.  They do considerable diffusionist research, seem to have strong LDS research ties, but their main web site focuses mostly on UFO, Paranormal, and Sci-Fi.  But Frank Joseph who for years was editor of Ancient American Magazine, has been involved with AAPS from the start, and will be speaking next month in Burlington, WI on .  Since I will be missing the WEX conference, I may look to see where Burlington, WI and stop in for Frank's talk and field trip:

Frank Joseph and Peter Moon in Burlington

Event Details

Time: June 21, 2009 to June 22, 2009
Location: Sci Fi Cafe Burlington, WI
Street: 532 N. Pine St.
City/Town: Burlington, WI 53105
Website or Map: http://www.burlingtonnews.n...
Contact Info: 262-767-1116
Event Type: book, signing, and, workshops
Organized By: Mary Sutherland
Latest Activity: Apr 22

Event Description

Frank Joseph and Peter Moon in Burlington
June 21st and 22nd
These two days will be in two parts.

Mornings:Lectures and Book signings with Peter and Frank.

Peter Moon will be talking on the ancient mound builders conections to Wisconsin and the Mormon 'mound hunters'.

Frank Joseph will be speaking on the Egyptians, Vikings, Romans, Christians, etc. in America before Columbus.

Afternoons: Field Trips and Workshops. Join Peter Moon, Frank Joseph, and Mary Sutherland as they take you to the sacred sites of Burlington.
Listen to them as they share their stories of the ancient mound builders, the early Mormons of Burlington, and sacred Brass Plates of Voree.
See through their experienced eyes and learn the proper archeological methods of expediting a site.
These two days spent on site with Peter Moon, Frank Joseph and Mary Sutherland will be an experience that you will never forget.

For more information on this special weekend contact:
Mary Sutherland
bsutherland@...

262-767-1116

http://scificafecommunity.ning.com/xn/detail/2847799:Event:1422