Just back from weeks away without computer access.  I am still
working overtime but will soon complete a one year, 1700 hour
Ameicorps (American Peace Corps) assignment.

Pam, thank you for your recent posting to the  Ancient Waterways
Society group about your trip to significant Ohio sites and visit
with William and his wife.  It shows how warmly accessible
researchers and correspondants to groups and web sites such as
PreColumbian Inscriptions are to each other.

Please check out the PreColumbian Inscriptions site for specific
information about William's finding and previous references to
information Pam mentioned.  PreColumbian Inscriptions site often
receives dozens of letters a day and is a very active, current group
with cutting-edge information of a historical, ancient, and
sometimes metaphysical base:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/

Click on "Messages" upper left corner of page and you may read the
postings which come in frequently.  If you wish to respond,
introduce yourselves, or post a message, you will need to join the
free web group.
___________________________________________________________________
I wish to post an upcoming conference mentioned last year in one of
my initial posts to Ancient Waterways Society. There is a correction
to the date mentioned earlier.  I am not involved in this conference
as I was a the 1998 PreColumbian Symposium at Big Bay.  Here is
information take from the fullpage ad in Ancient American.  Please
contact Judy Johnson for further information.

From the current issue (#63) of Ancient American Magazine:

CONFERENCE ON ANCIENT AMERICA
October 7th, 8th, & 9th, 2005
Bay Cliff Health Camp & Conference Center
Big Bay, Michigan (north of Marquette)

Are you interested in:
* Ancient Artifacts
* Tablets & Stones
* Ancient Waterways
* Epigraphical Studies
*Ancient Copper information
* Ancient Earthworks
* Ancient Vikings/Norse
*any & all evidence of Pre-Columbian paresence in the Americas
  (and related subjects)?
Then YOU need to be there!

NOTICE!  A CALL FOR PRESENTERS

If you have a program, slides, artifacts to show, a good story,
recent discoveries, a new book, etc. that you would like to share
(15 minutes-1 hour), we'd LOVE to give vyou a spot on the agenda.

Please contact:

Judy M. Johnson, Conference Chair
@ judyspapergoods@...
PO box 216
Skandia, MI 49885
Phone: 906-942-7865
______________________________________________
  Proceeds will go toward fund for the future Ancient Copper Culture
Museum near Lake Superior in Michigan's Upper Peninsula.

I shall without computer access this week and next camping in the
wilds north of Houghton, Michigan.

  Cordially,
M. Susan English
beldingenglish@...
Ancient Waterways Society

Welcome to Marti, the newest member of Ancient Waterways Society web
site! The group is very open to ideas and suggestions for this
particular web link.

As one of the group's functions as a resource, I am including part
of an attachment about an upcoming PreColumbian conference to be
held close to the fall peak near the shores of Lake Superior during
the peak of the autumn season.

Though I am neither a member of the ancient american artifact
committee nor involved in the conference this year, I know most of
the presenters quite well and I wish to include contact information
for those of you interested in networking with others your own
research and interests. The conference will be somewhat informal
within a rather remote area of Upper Michigan. I suggest taking an
extra two or three days to visit the Porcupine Mt-Keeweenaw eninsula
Copper Country, approximately two hours west of Marquette.

Those interested, please email or call the conference chair listed
below for a full email attachment and further information.

Respectfully,
Susan
___________________________________________________________________
CONFERENCE ON ANCIENT AMERICA
Bay Cliff Health Camp & Conference Center
Big Bay, Michigan (30 miles N. of Marquette, on Lake Superior)
October 7th-9th, 2005

Sponsored by AAAPF – Ancient American Artifact Preservation
Foundation
"Bringing Together Diverse Pieces of the Ancient American
Puzzle"

You Won't Want to Miss This Exciting Gathering of Enthusiasts
from all Areas of Ancient American Research, Sharing Their Latest
Discoveries.

Hear, Meet, and Discuss Your Favorite Subjects with Top People in
the Field! See Displays of Thousands of Artifacts! Sponsored by
AAAPF – Ancient American Artifact Preservation Foundation
"Bringing Together Diverse Pieces of the Ancient American Puzzle"

*************
Guest Presenters (so far, & subject to change):

Beverly Mosely, Author/Historian/Researcher – "Interpreting
Burrough's Cave Artifacts"

Frank Joseph, Author/Researcher/Editor, Ancient American Magazine
"Atlantis in the U.P."

Wayne May, Author/Researcher/Publ. Ancient American
Magazine–"Adena
Hopewell Update"

Fred Rydholm, Author/Researcher – "Michigan Copper; the
Untold Story"

Myron Paine, Ph.D./Author – "Finding the Frozen Trail &
Panoramas Along the Path"

Jim Michael, Author/Researcher – "Ancient American Symbols
with Old World British Meanings"

John White, Researcher/Ed. Midwestern Epigraphic Soc.–
"Kokopeli-Interpretation Son of the Sun"

David Hoffman, Researcher – "Ancient American Waterways &
Links to the Old World"

Marion Dahm, Vikings in America Researcher – "Norsemen &
Vikings in the Last 5,000 Years-featuring new finds in Ohio,
Illinois, Canada and more"

Nelson Jecas, Diver/Researcher – "Ancient Underwater Finds"

Judi Rudibush, Norse Researcher – "New Evidence on Mooring
Stones'"

Zena Halpern, Author/Researcher – "Jewish Connection with
Ancient America"

Vernon Peterson, Diver/Researcher – "Copper Artifacts from
Lake Superior"

Alan Wilson – "The King Arthur Conspiracy"

Lodging and Great Food on Site. (List of Nearby Lodging in
Registration Forms)
For Registration forms and information, please contact:

Judy M Johnson, Conference Chair, Secretary, AAAPF
judyspapergoods@... PO Box 216 Skandia MI 49885
Ph 906-942-7865

Conference on Ancient America - Bay Cliff Health Camp
Big Bay, Michigan - October 7-8-9, 2005

Welcome to Marti, the newest member of Ancient Waterways Society web
site! The group is very open to ideas and suggestions for this
particular web link.

Schedule of Activities-CONFERENCE ON ANCINET AMERICA,
Bay Cliff Camp & Conference Center, Big Bay, Michigan, Oct. 7-9,
2005 (North of Marquette, Michigan)

Friday  Oct. 7th
2:00–4:30 Registration, Displays and Exhibits

4:30–6:00  DINNER  no addt'l chg for registrants- $7.50 for
non-reg.

Open-to-the-Public Program–fee at the door-$10 Includes
refreshments

6:00–6:30  Refreshments, coffee. Set up for self-serve till 9:00

6:30–7:00  Fred Rydholm-"Michigan Copper, and AAAPF"

7:00–7:30  Beverly Mosely-"Interpreting Burrow's Cave
Artifacts"

7:30–8:00  Frank Joseph-"Atlantis in the U.P."

8:00–8:30  Alan Wilson-"King Arthur Conspiracy Teaser"

8:30–9:00  Jim Michael-"Ancient American Symbols with Old World
British Meaning"

9:00–9:15  Jay Wakefield-"Interpreting the Minoan Phaisto's
Disk, a
short Teaser"

9:15–10:30  Myron Payne & team-"Norse in Ancient America"

10:30-11:00   Question and Answer Period

_____________________________________________________________________
Saturday, Oct. 8th

8:00–9:30   BREAKFAST

9:30–10:00  Wayne May-"Update on Numerous Sites"

10:00-10:45  John White-"Kokopeli–Interpretation Son of the Sun"

10:45-11:30  Myron Payne & team-"Norse in Ancient America"

11:30-Noon   Myron Payne-"Finding the Frozen Trail"

Noon-1:15  LUNCH

Noon–12:20 Maria Formolo-Interpretive Dance

Afternoon:
1:30–2:15 Frank Joseph-"Atlantis in the U,P. con't"

2:15-2:45 Beverly Mosely-"Interpreting Burrow's Cave Artifacts,
con't."

2:45–3:15 Zena Halpern-"Underwater Discovery of an Ancient Ship
off
Coast of Israel Opens up Far-Reachings Connections to the Americas.

3:15-3:45 William Smith-"Ancient Sundial Mold Stone of N. Ohio"

3:45–5:00 Exhibits – Networking

5:00–6:30 DINNER

Evening:
6:45–7:00 Alan Wilson-"King Arthur Conspiracy, con't"

7:00–7:45 Jay Wakefield-"Interpreting the Minoan Phaisto's
Disk"

7:45–8:15 Nelson Jecas-"Ancient Underwater Finds"

8:15–8:30 Vernon Peterson-"Copper Artifacts from Lake Superior"

8:30–8:45 Mike Lehto-"Dolmans found in Michigan and the Midwest"

8:45–9:15 David Hoffman-"Ancient Waterways & Links to the Old
World"

9:15–10:00Maria Formolo & All-Drum circle and Dance of the 4
Directions

9:45–open to All-Networking

Sunday, Oct. 9th

7:30–9:00 BREAKFAST

9:15–10:00 Fred Rydholm-"Michigan Copper, the Untold Story"

10:00-10:30 Marion Dahm-"Norsemen/Vikings in last 1,000 years –
New
Finds in Ohio, Illlinois"

10:30-10:45 Paper-Judi Rudibush-"New Evidence: Mooring/Marker
Stones"-Read by J M Johnson

10:45-12:45 Exhibits, Networking

12:45–
Networking, Departures

Members of Ancient Waterways Society and PreColumbian Inscriptions,

I mentioned a book recently, the "bible" of ancient copper
culture studies called "Prehistoric Copper Mining in the Lake
Superior Region" (Drier & DuTemple, c. 1961). It is in such demand
and even more 'gospel' than the work of current researchers on the
subject that hard cover prices are ranging from $50-150.

Much to my delight when visiting the copper country last weekend, I
found the book has just been released in soft cover,  not yet in
wide circulation.

The co-authors published the book privately. Professor of Metallurgy
Roy Drier (Michigan Mining and Technology, now Mich Tech. Univ) is
deceased.  Octave  DuTemple, in his 80's or 90's, continues his
work. He and his daughter brought signed, numbered copies of the
2005 edition to the Copper Harbor shop and museum where I stopped.
The 200+ page book retails at $14.95, plus tax & P&H. Anyone wanting
an early copy may write to Judy Davis at minnetonk@... or, 906-
289-4449.  (Judy's dad was a Chicago archaologist. A news article
on
the wall of his daughter's museum at the Minnetonka Resort
clearly
shows his comprehensive, diffusionist scope.)

"Prehistoric Copper Mining in the Lake Superior Region" is a
collection of reference articles and manuscripts from scholars here
and abroad covering a span of 300 years.  DuTemple wrote in his 1961
introduction that, following retirement, Dr. Drier continued to
collect and catalogue additional manuscripts and copper artifacts.
The authors encouraged every reader of their book to submit
information and suggestions in order to help them solve `this
archaeological mystery'. {A note here: proceeds from the
Conference on Ancient America some of you will be attending next
month will go toward just such a museum).

I emphasize that investigation into the subject of an "ancient
Copper Culture" and "waves upon waves of people"(Rydholm)came
through the Great Lakes to Lake Superior from many regions of the
world is not mere parochial study of an insignificant, remote
wilderness area in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. Nor are its
tremendous implications confined to the Americas.  DuTemple
estimated that 500 million to more than a billion pounds of copper
was mined prehistorically in the more than 5000 mines and pits in
the Lake Superior region, and "where this copper went is still a
mystery" (p. 15).

The lowest estimates in the amounts of 'missing' copper mined
suggests mining took place for thousands of  years. Charcoal samples
at the base of specific ancient pits on Isle Royale alone indicate
3500-4000 years ago.  DuTemple felt it very possible that a copper
trade took place several thousand years ago between America, Europe,
Asia and South America.  And no known burials, pottery, clay tables,
writings remained of this culture. It is well here to remember that
historic mines were built upon ancient ones. Huge mounds of
mine "tailings", debris, and remnants of old mining building
from
long-closed historic mines are still spread upward and outward for
blocks from each mine.

I am going to close this with two paragraphs in DuTemple's
introduction. It will show the feasibility of travel throughout the
Great Lakes from the East. And also relate to a discussion by
several PreColumbian Inscriptions correspondents several months ago
discussing water levels and the last glacial period:

"Current estimates about the last glaciers in this area place
them at about 11,000 to 14,000 years ago.  If one assumes that these
pits were opened after the glacier retreated this would leave a
period of something less than 10,000 years between the retreat of
the glacier and the elaborate ventures which these people operated.
While there have been some shifts in the lake level of the Great
Lakes over this period of time, it is believed that Isle Royale
existed as an island at least 8000 or 9000 years.

Approximately 3500 years ago the post glacial Great Lakes were in
the Lake Nipissing Stage (Jack L. Hough, Geology of Great Lakes,
University of Illinois Press, Urbana (1958) p. 253 and 296). Lakes
Superior, Michigan and Huron were all at 605 feet elevation above
sea level.  At this time it was possible to travel east directly to
the ocean via North Bay and the Ottawa River, and thence out the St.
Lawrence to the sea, or south via Chicago, Des Plaines and the
Mississippi River.  The route over Niagara Falls was also open (pp.
16-17).

I hope to entice many of you into considering possibilites and
the worldwide impact of diffusiom and trade that took place by those
who navigated through intercontinental, ancient waterways, mined
copper and other metals using Stone Age tools. Perhaps predecessors
and an even earlier peoples may have mined deeper levels, using very
different technologies, whose evidence lies at even greater depths.
Few contemporary academic researchers and writers have stepped out
on the limb that early researchers did. Interest is now growing to
carry forward or use as a stepping stone, the work of the dozens of
scholars whose writings, drawings, diagrams, and old photograps make
up the bulk of the book.

Cordially,
M. Susan English

....we'll not know where we're going `til we know where
we have been.

----- Original Message -----

From: Judy M Johnson

To: Judy M Johnson

Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 2:58 PM

Subject: Marion Dahm, a Dear Friend

Dear Ancient Archaeology Friends,

 

Passing on this sad news:

Please find below a note from Judi Rudebusch telling of the sudden passing, the night of July 29, 2006,  of our dear friend and enthusiastic Mooring Stone researcher, Marion Dahm. He has quite a following of people who are also seeking Viking/Norse evidences, so his work will be carried on...bless 'em all!

 

My goodness, but we will miss his sparkling blue eyes, alive with curiosity and delight in life, and his energy, intensity, and thoroughness about his research. We will miss him most when we gather with people of similar interests, especially at our Oct. conference in Big Bay, which he was most eager to attend.

 

AAAPF extends our deepest regards and respect to Marion's family and friends. We love him and will miss him. It is an honor to have called him "friend."

 

Happy Researching in Viking Paradise, Marion!!

 

Blessings, Judy

 

Judy M Johnson
Sec. AAAPF
Chair: Conf. on Ancient America, Oct. 6-8, 2006
PO Box 216, Skandia MI 49885

 

July 30, 2006

Hello,

This is a sad morning as word arrived from Jonna, Marion's daughter, that Marion had passed away last night.

 

I know that Marion had not been feeling well, and his friend that emailed me said that he thought Marion may have had sunstroke- not so,  but he did contact the West Nile virus.   His daughter took him into the hospital last night- and he walked in on his own- and his white cell count was sky high.  The meningitus had alread set in.

 

Please contact the Rydholm's and Susan English and keep Marion's family in your thoughts.

 

Not everyone in this world went after life as Marion did.  He lived it.    Bless him,  he will be remembered.

 

Judi Rudebusch

 

Pam,
Your eulogy to Marion touched me so deeply...
I sent your tribute and accompanying letters to Marion Dahm's
daughter and granddaughter who worked so closely with Marion:

Janna and Kristin,

Marion spoke of you incessantly with great devotion. You honored your
father/grandfather by being so devoted and directly involved in the
work he so passionately adored.

He was a wonderful man and I adored driving him around, setting up
our tents, cooking hearty campfire meals to share with bystanders who
soon joined in on viewing his artifacts then spent hours listening to
his wonderful, well-humored talks. Sometimes with big crocodile tears
he spoke of the terrible injustices that befell the family who
discovered the Kensington Runestone.  And I enjoyed being an honored
guest in his house in Chokio the weekend of the Kensington conference
a few years ago.

Jana, thank you for leaving the phone message.  I do not have caller
ID so was unable to return your call.  If you or Kristin would ever
like to phone and talk about Marion's work or life, etc., I'd love to
hear from you. My phone number, again, is: 715 845 8395 and address:
1045 St. Austin Avenue, Wausau, WI 54403. I'd enjoy hearing, too,
through the years, how his work has been furthered.

I spoke with Marion not long ago...still talking about plans to scuba
dive for a mooring stone in Norway Lake.  He and Prof. Jim Scherz
were wanting me to join them this fall on a trip to Lake Nippigon in
Canada prior to the Big Bay, Michigan conference.  Marion was
scheduled to be one of the main speakers at that event.

Our lives will not be the same without him.  How fortunate you both,
your family and friends were to have had him there so closely all of
your lives.  You two, in particular, I know already carry so many of
the many wonderful traits your dad and grandfather lived with such
passion and dedication.

Earlier this summer I  spent a month of voluntary service doing
street nursing and gutting hurricane-damaged homes in New Orleans to
make way for FEMA trailers or rebuilding.  Thus haven't funds to
travel nor am able to take further time off to attend Marion's
memorial.  If you find time later, please email or send me a copy of
the funeral and farewell salute by family and friends.  I shall think
of you all especially throughout the memorial services Tuesday and
Wednesday.  Marion's friends Fred Rydholm in Michigan, writer David
Hoffman and Ancient American Magazine publisher, Wayne May, and
others have been on the phone today, saddened, yet recalling fond
experiences we shared with our dear friend Marion.

He blessed us all in his life, his research, dedication searching for
missing children, delight in showing us how to use his dowsing rods,
and sharing his great enthusiasm for life.

Marion knew his good fortune in having you and your families so
closely enmeshed in his life and work.  I thank you too, for loving
him so. And I grieve for you these coming days in your loss of that
wondrous being.

Below are beautifully written internet letters and correspondence
heralding Marion......

First letter is from Pam Giese written early this morningto fellow
members of the thor-thehuntersohiorock · THOR (the hunters Ohio Rock)

web site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thor-thehuntersohiorock/

Web site founder, William Smith, Pam Giese, and several from
the "Thor Group" of Ohio and the Central Midwest attended the Upper
Michigan PreColumbian AAAPF conference last year. Below are letters
of correspondence to web sites, PreColumbian groups and individuals
all over the world tonight and early this AM.

Second letter is from Judy Johnson, conference chairperson for the
AAAPF Conference in Michigan who, with her husband Glen, provided
lodging and wonderful hospitality to Marion and me on what Marion
called a "million dollar trip" when we camped across the Western
Upper Peninsula the week prior to the first PreColumbian Discoveries
Symposium in Big Bay, Michigan.

The  third letter is from Marion's fellow researcher and longtime
friend, Judy Rudibush, with whom you are well acquainted.  If you
wish, please feel free to pass these wonderful tributes on to
others.  Tonight at the Memorial service in Morris, MN I know there
will be many friends sharing stories about our dear Marion and his
remarkable work and life.

I received notes yesterday, too, from Steven Hilgren, a California
researcher whom you probably know who has been very closely working
with Marion in his ancient Viking research.  Steve is not a member of
this Ancient Waterways Society web site but is a member of the Thor
the Hunter group, and has written fine things about Marion at that
web site. Steve included in his email yesterday a very recent photo
of Marion and fellow Kensington Runestone researcher Leland Peterson
and the last mooring stone Marion and Leland recorded.  I shall ask
Steve to sent it to the Thor group and perhaps share some of the work
he and Marion have been doing together.

So sorry not to be able to be of help there and join you all in
Western Minnesota today and tomorrow. My deepest condolences and
regard to you all,

M. Susan English
Wausau, WI 54403

After creating this website for the Ancient Waterways Society, I
became aware of the Precolumbian Inscriptions site, which has similar
goals.  It's more active (that's not hard to imagine), so I've been
posting articles and links there.

I think it's worthwhile to start posting material here.  Maybe if I
do, others will do so as well.  We'll start with an old Scottish boat...

Not a seagoing boat, unfortunately, but it is a boat, and it was on an
ancient waterway...  Here's the link -

http://heritage.scotsman.com/places.cfm?id=1111362006

but since some links don't last, here's the copied and pasted text...


1 Aug 2006
A 3,000-year-old voyage of discovery
JENNIFER VEITCH

IN ANCIENT times, when Scotland was virtually covered in dense forest,
there was only one way to get around. Traveling by boat helped early
Scots to find food and trade goods with their neighbours.
The work to extract the boat from the river bed is slow and painstaking.

Now, with the excavation of a 3,000-year-old log boat, archaeologists
are hoping to learn more about how prehistoric Scots used the vast
network of rivers and lochs.

The Bronze Age dug-out was found in mudflats at Carpow, on the south
side of the River Tay estuary, in autumn 2001. A group of three
amateur archaeologists – Scott McGuckin, Martin Brooks and Robert
Fotheringham – had spotted the worn but still recognisable prow of
boat sticking out from the mud and peat.

Radio carbon tests conducted later dated the 30-foot-long log boat,
which had been carved out of a single piece of oak, to around 1000BC.
This means the Carpow boat is the second-oldest dated log boat ever
found in Scotland, and it is also one of the best preserved.

While the remains of 30 log boats survive today – the oldest was a
stern portion of a log boat, carbon dated to 1800BC found in
Dumfriesshire in 1973 – most are in extremely poor condition. The
Carpow boat is not only still in one piece but it also has an intact
transom board at the stern.

David Strachan, archaeologist at the Perth and Kinross Heritage Trust
(PKHT), says the log boat was a hugely significant find. "It is
fantastic. Generally log boats found in Scotland tend to date from
500BC to 1000AD. This boat dates from 1000BC so that puts it in the
later Bronze Age, so it's quite an early example.

"Since it was discovered, we did an initial excavation, primarily to
find out how long the boat was, the date, and to find out how
well-preserved the buried portion of the boat was. That showed us that
the buried end is very well-preserved, including having a very intact
stern board – a transom board. That is very rare."

The boat was found on an eroding peat shelf, and is only visible twice
a day at low tide. Archaeologists believe it was washed downstream
from either the River Tay or the River Earn, another tributary of the
Tay estuary.

At first, it was decided to leave the boat where it was found, but
tests showed it was being damaged by the tides and the weather. Now
archaeologists from the PKHT, in partnership with Perth Museum,
Historic Scotland and the National Museums of Scotland (NMS), are
preparing to lift it onto dry land to be conserved.

Excavation work began in late July and – weather and tides permitting
– the boat will be lifted out of the mud, using a special floating
cradle. Plans to begin this critical next step are tentatively set for
mid-August.

"We will take the boat out in three sections as there is a danger it
may snap if it is lifted in once piece," says Strachan. "Hopefully it
will tell us a lot about how Bronze Age boats were constructed."
Archaeologists work to safely remove thousands of years of earth from
the log boat.

The boat will undergo conservation work by Dr Theo Skinner of NMS – a
process expected to take three years – before being put on display to
the public, first at Perth Museum and then in Edinburgh.

An Historic Scotland spokesman said: "This is a tremendously exciting
piece of archaeology. It will help us make new advances in
understanding our prehistoric ancestors – how they lived, worked and
even traded in a land which was mountainous and had no roads but had a
tremendous network of rivers and lochs."

Log boats are recorded from as long ago as 7000BC in Denmark, and 150
having been discovered in Scotland. Seven log boats were discovered in
the Tay area in the 19th century, but only one, dating from around
500AD, still survives and is now on display in Dundee Museum.

It is believed people would have used the boat to go fishing, hunting
for wild fowl, and even to ferry people across the Tay estuary.

Barrie Andrian, managing director of the Crannog Centre, in Kenmore,
Perthshire, and herself an underwater archaeologist, said: "We are
very interested in this log boat. It's one of the oldest boats found
in Scotland and the fact that it is so well-preserved is significant
from a research point of view.

"It's a great find for Scotland."

Stan & Ancient Waterways Society members:

I am just in the door from trips to Upper Michigan and
Madison...checking computer correspondence even before unpacking the
car.

Stan, this does seem to be a good site for inserting links related to
ancient global waterways such as the Scottish boats site you sent
earlier in the week. I am running a print of it to read at work.


Earlier in the month is Pam Giese's fine eulogy in a post to this site
of ancient Viking expert/Kensington Runestone researcher, Marion Dahm.
She too had the privilege of getting to know Marion through various
conferences and camp site discussions.

Marion will probably be most noted for his careful documentation of
thousands of "mooring stones" most of which he personally followed up
on at present or former ancient waterway sites throughout the Midwest,
Canada, and East Coast. Marion never wrote a book nor do I believe
authored independent articles,though many have been written about his
research. Undoubtedly, Marion's research friends and associates from
the Kensington Runestone museum, and family members will begin
gathering what I presume to be countless boxes of research.  A letter
from his daughter Janna last week, they are still dealing with funeral
matters and the suddenness of his death.

In the meantime, I started going tbrough ten years' worth of
correspondence from him. This includes numerous articles, maps,
photos/infrared aerial photography showing various ancient water levels
for an area around the Western Minnesota/Dakotas/Continental Divide
region where he and fellow researchers documented hundreds of 'Viking'
mooring stone holes. These vast old lake or riverway mooring stone
sites I believe are at two different elevations, indicating a variance
in water levels and time periods---now farmland or plain. If I am
correct, and according to one of Marion's photos to me, some of these
large waterway areas now dry were as recent at 1000 years ago!

I was more a transporter with Marion than researcher, but if anyone is
interested in details of the work he was doing in league with others, I
shall ask Californian Steve Hilgren--who has worked closely with Marion
for a number of years--to reply through this web site.  Such discussion
would by no means not be off-topic on a global, "ancient waterways' web
link. I know Steve has a lot to say on the subject that he could not
get into much detail on other sites.

Susan
suzenglish@...

Ancient Waterways members,
Enclosed is correspondence from AAAPF chair Judy Johnson, Marquette,
Michigan historicans Fred & June Rydholm, and researcher/author Zena
Halperen re: History Channel program this evening which might be of
interest to other related groups.
It reminds me, I need to detail to this group specifics re: the
Ancient American Artifict Preservation Foundation Conference coming
up in early October. Please write for email/conference registration
download to Judy Johnson's address below.
Susan
_________________________________
Here's a note from Zena Halpern  to Fred and June Rydholm urging us
to watch the history channel tonight, Sunday Aug 20th, 8 pm EST
See below for details.
Judy
Judy M Johnson
Sec. AAAPF
Chair: Conference on Ancient America, Oct. 6-8, 2006
PO Box 216, Skandia MI 49885
906-942-7865

----- Original Message -----
From: June Rydholm
To: Dan Rydholm
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 11:26 PM
Subject: Fw: Watch the History Channel

This is just in from Zena.  I thought you would be interested.  June
----- Original Message -----
From: ZHstar@...
To: jryd@...
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 5:02 PM
Subject: Watch the History Channel

Dear Fred & June-
       Sun nite- Aug. 20 - 8 p.m.   HISTORY CHANNEL.

       "The Exodus Decoded" will have a short piece with my friend the
archaeologist from the Sinai

He's the  one who saw the Catskill Mt. Stone.   I just got an email f
rom Scott Wolter who analyzed the stone and its old..............

We have an ancient site up in the catskill Mts.   4 stones and we
found another one  6 weeks ago and it has the letters      Y    H  W
H   on it.   The same as on the Declagogue Stone.  Tell Dan!!!!!!!!!

Love, Zena

Below, I copied a file sent by AAAPF conference chair re: the
upcoming October conference which will be held again north of
Marquette, Michigan. The pasted file is a bit awkward, so please
phone or email Judy Johnson to have file w/reservation forms and map
sent directly to you.
Susan
_________________________________
SECOND ANNUAL CONFERENCE ON ANCIENT AMERICA
Sponsored by AAAPF/Ancient American Artifact Preservation Foundation

...'Where enquiring minds and varied evidence of ancient American
visitation are pieced together creating a clearer picture of our
true history'...

October 6, 7, 8, 2006

Bay Cliff Health Camp, Big Bay, Michigan, on Gorgeous bluff with
Fabulous views of Lake Superior

Registration Friday 12:00-3:30 PM, EST. Ends Sunday @ 4:00 PM.

Friday- Reg. 1:00-3:30. Programs 3:30-5:00, Dinner 5:45-6:45,
Programs 7:00-11:00 PM

Sat- Bkfst 8:00-9:00 AM, Programs 9:15-12:30, Lunch 12:30-1:30,
Programs 1:45-6:15 PM

Sat. Dinner 6:30- 7:45, Programs 8:00-10:30, Drumming-Dancing 10:45-
12:00

Sunday- Bkfst 8:30-9:30, Networking 9:30-10, Programs 10:00-4:00 PM

Thank you for your interest in this fine gathering of ancient
American enthusiasts. New facilities at Bay Cliff house and feed up
to 150 people for very reasonable rates, as well as provide beautiful
auditorium room for speeches and presentations seating up to 225
people. Anyone showing artifacts during Friday evening's program will
be responsible for hosting (guarding) their own table. If they are
speaking/presenting, a committee person will watch their display.

Speakers and Topics to Date:

Lee Pennington: The Serpent Fort- Solving the Mystery of Fort
Mountain, Georgia

David Richarde: The Holy Grail and How it Ties in with the Nova
Scotia Early Americans

Jay Wakefield:  Megalithic Picture Writing 3200 BC- Early
explorations of Atlantic

Myron Paine: The Many Model-People in Ancient America from many
places, at many times

Jim Michael: The Decalogue Stone-Fact or Forgery

Ida Jane Gallagher:
Contact with Ancient America (from her book with Warren Dexter, by
same title)

William Smith: The Ohio Rock, Chapter Two- Navigation tools used by
the Ancients

Fred Rydholm:  More old World Connections to the UP copper trade.
Based on his book "Michigan Copper, the Untold Story."

Frank Joseph: Topics to be announced

David Hoffman: Ancient Waterways and their links to the Midwest from
Ancient ports

Wayne May: Updates on various cave discoveries

Glenn DeVlaminck: Basic Archaeological Field Techniques to make
amateurs credible

Robert Wright: Oneness of Humanity/Human Migration out of Africa

Scott Wolter: New Data on the Kensington and Spirit Pond Runestones
___________________
We may have a few spots open for 15, 30 minute presentations. Please
call for availability.

Most on-site lodging is in a beautiful new building, with lovely
natural wood walls, large stone fireplace in common lounge area. Some
double rooms are in another building behind the main lodge. All beds
are single. Fees include 2 nights lodging, 6 meals, and conference
registration.

Saturday night the indoor pool and sauna will be available for full
registrants at no extra charge. Details/ breakdown of fees below.
NOTICE: Bay Cliff is a non-smoking,  no alcohol campus. Thank you for
honoring the rules and protecting the well-being of the children who
live here in the summer.

FEES and Registration-

Registration Fees: Please circle your registration level and note
total paid below.

You may like to bring your own soft bedding. Donated mixed bedding is
on site.

Level 1- Two nights lodging in double room onsite, 6 delicious meals,
membership in AAAPF (2006-07), and all programs.  $210 one person.
$290 for two. (Only 13 doubles available)

Level 2- Two nights lodging in camp-style bunk room onsite, 6 meals,
AAAPF membership, all programs- $180 per person   (Available: 5 rooms
with 4 twin sized beds;  2 rooms with 6 twin sized beds

These rooms are all served by large bathrooms with several showers
and sinks- one for women, and one for men.

Level 3- Conference, all 6 meals, AAAPF membership, (if you stay at
local motel) - $130 per person

Level 4- Registration for entire conf. with NO meals - $80

Extra Dinner Tickets - $12 ea.     Lunch Tickets - $10 ea.    All 6
Meals - $50    Sales Table $25

Duplicate for your records.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………...
Cut here to mail below portion. Save top portion for your own records.

Level 1- Two nights lodging in double room onsite, 6 delicious meals,
membership in AAAPF (2006-07), and all programs.  $210 one person.
$290 for two. (Only 13 doubles available)

Level 2- Two nights lodging in camp-style bunk room onsite, 6 meals,
AAAPF membership, all programs- $180 per person   (Available: 5 rooms
with 4 twin sized beds;  2 rooms with 6 twin sized beds

These rooms are all served by large bathrooms with several showers
and sinks- one for women, and one for men.

Level 3- Conference, all 6 meals, AAAPF membership, (if you stay at
local motel) - $130 per person

Level 4- Registration for entire conf. with NO meals - $80

Extra Dinner Tickets - $12 ea.     Lunch Tickets - $10 ea.    All 6
Meals - $50    Sales Table $25

Name(s)______________________________________________________________

Address: ________________________________________
City _________________________________
State_____ ZIP _____________Phone ________________
Email _____________________________

Total enclosed $___________________________

Please Send to:

Judy M Johnson, Secretary AAAPF, Conf. Coordinator

PO Box 216, Skandia MI 49885  Ph 906-942-7865
____________________________________________________
Alternate Big Bay, Michigan Lodging

Big Bay Motel, 96 Bensinger St., ph 906-345-9444 (close to
conference)

Big Bay Depot, 310 Depot Rd. ph 906-345-9350

Big Bay Point Lighthouse Bed and Breakfast, on the shore of Lake
Superior-ph 906-345-9957

Picture Bay Motel, 3540 CR 550, ph 906-345-9820

Little Tree Cabins, ph 906-345-9535

Thunder Bay Inn, 400 Bensinger, phone 906-345-9376 (Closest to
conference. Also has restaurant) Where parts of the film "Anatomy of
a Murder" were shot. Nearby bar is where the actual murder took place.

Perkins Park- for campsites and motor homes, on the shore of Lake
Independence County Rd 550, PO Box 31, Big Bay, MI  ph 906-345-9353

Big Bay is about 30 miles north of Marquette. 45 miles north of "MQT"
International Airport.

Head straight north through town, turn left at bend, see sign for Bay
Cliff Health Camp.

Turn Right (north) follow road past new construction, across small
bridge, and park where indicated. Walk in to second large building on
right for registration, or to first large building on right
if you are coming just for Friday night program.
___________________

I realized this morning that there may be some visitors here who are
unaware of Odin's Castle.  It is arguably the most comprehensive web
source for history -

http://www.odinscastle.org/

No intrinsic content, but almost endless links to places on the web
with information about history, organized in a reasonably rationale
manner.

Enjoy.....

(I plan to post more on Zheng He in the future, but just found this
bit of news today...)


Firm to build biggest ancient ship replica
Winny Wang
2006-08-30

A SINO-MALAYSIAN joint venture next month will begin building the
replica of China's biggest 'Treasure" ship that sailed abroad in the
14th century, Jiefang Daily reported today.

The ship will set out for its first trial voyage in April 2008 to
boast the country's culture and history.

Mariner Zheng He rode the original "Treasure" ship to make seven
historical voyages to Southeast Asia, West Asia and East Africa
between 1405 and 1433 during the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), which
promoted understanding, friendship and trade relations between China
and these areas.

The Chinese replica follows the voyage of a Swedish replica Gotheborg,
which arrived in Shanghai yesterday after sailing for months.

Wang Guoping, the General Manager of a Jiangsu company in Nanjing that
is in charge of the replica's design, said they have finished the
blueprints for the ship after a one-year study and construction will
start at the end of September.

Wang said the ship's overall length will be 71.1 meters, with
14.05-meter beams and an overall depth of 7-meters, to echo Zheng's
first voyage on July 11, 1405.

The ship will be able to displace 1,500 tons of water and carry 30
sailors, 36 passengers as well as 50 tons of goods.

"It is 10 meters longer and 3 meters wider than the Gotherborg," Wang
said.

He said the ship will imitate the appearance of the ancient "Treasure"
ship, but its interior decorations and equipments will be modern,
including generating sets, air conditioners, televisions and computers.

The ship can travel at 12 knots (22 kilometers per hour) and sustain
strong winds.

Wang said they will solve potential problems that may happen during
voyage, such as the stability and intensity concerns.

Jia Tiejia, the Vice General Manager of Nanjing Dragon Treasure Boat
Develop Co, which is in charge of the reconstruction of the boat, said
they will learn from the Gotherborg's construction and will open the
building process to the public. Tourists can help workers hammer in
nails, paint the ship and plait cables.

He said the company will apply to the Beijing Olympic Organization
Committee to appoint the ship as an image ambassador to show the
country's century-old sailing culture.

After the 2008 Olympic Games, the boat will follow Zheng's route to
travel along Southeast Asia.

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/art/2006/08/30/290571/Firm_to_build_biggest_ancient\
_ship_replica.htm

from the BBC -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5398850.stm

(text here in case the link dies --

  Early humans followed the coast
By Paul Rincon
Science reporter, BBC News

Learning how to live off the sea may have played a key role in the
expansion of early humans around the globe.

After leaving Africa, human groups probably followed coastal routes to
the Americas and South-East Asia.

Professor Jon Erlandson says the maritime capabilities of ancient
humans have been greatly underestimated.

He has found evidence that early peoples in California pursued a
sophisticated seafaring lifestyle 10,000 years ago.

Anthropologists have long regarded the exploitation of marine
resources as a recent development in human history, and as peripheral
to the development of civilisation.

This view has been reinforced by a relative lack of evidence of
ancient occupation in coastal areas.

But that view is gradually changing; genetic studies, for example,
suggest a major early human expansion out of Africa occurred along the
southern coastline of Asia, leading to the colonisation of Australia
50,000 years ago.

Shifting sea levels since the last Ice Age, combined with coastal
erosion, would have erased many traces of a maritime past, Professor
Erlandson explained.

"The story of human evolution and human migrations has been dominated
by terrestrial perspectives," the University of Oregon researcher told
BBC News.

"I grew up on the coast and I always thought this didn't make much
sense. Coastlines are exceptionally rich in resources."

Ancient artefacts

Professor Erlandson has carried out extensive excavations on San
Miguel Island, off the coast of California, which is known to have
been inhabited at least 13,000 years ago.

About 100,000 seals and sea lions of six different species live on the
island. These slow-moving sea mammals would have been easy prey for
the island's early human inhabitants.

"The big elephant seals weigh over 3,000lbs," he explained. "It has
always seemed to me that these were a resource that early humans would
not want to miss."

One of the digs, at Daisy Cave, on San Miguel Island, has yielded
about 20 bone "gorges", a form of fish hook.

The gorges were covered with bait to be swallowed whole by fish, which
were then reeled in. These are between 8,600 and 9,600 years old and
are associated with more than 30,000 fish bones. They are the oldest
examples of such artefacts in the New World.

	 Actually proving such a migration took place is a very difficult
thing to do because of sea level changes and coastal erosion
Jon Erlandson, University of Oregon
The researchers have also recovered fragments of knotted "cordage" -
woven seagrass - that might have been used to make fishing nets. These
delicate items were preserved by pickling under layers of ancient
cormorant dung.

"The preservation is superb, so we interpreted the cordage as
'cut-offs' from the manufacture and maintenance of nets, fishing
lines, and other maritime-related woven technologies," Professor
Erlandson said.

At other sites, the researchers have found barbed points that were
most likely used for hunting sea mammals - possibly sea otters. They
also unearthed examples of 9,000-year-old basketry as well as
8,600-year-old shell bead jewellery.

'Kelp highway'

The findings from Daisy Cave could be consistent with the idea that
some of America's first colonists followed a coastal migration route
from Asia.

Conquering the cold waters of the northern Pacific would have required
advanced seafaring skills as well as an ability to successfully
exploit marine resources.

At the height of the last Ice Age, a land mass called Beringia would
have connected North-East Asia to North America.

Traditionally, the first Americans were thought to be big game
hunters, who marched from Siberia across the land bridge to Alaska.
Then, they were thought to have travelled south through the Canadian
Arctic via an "ice-free corridor" that emerged in the central US.

But the earliest signs of human occupation from the ice-free corridor
date to 11,000 years ago, while California's Channel Islands are now
known to have been inhabited at least 13,000 years ago.

Professor Erlandson has come up with an alternative theory that
maritime peoples from Asia followed forests of kelp to the New World.

Kelp Forest would have hugged the coastline from Japan up through
Siberia to Alaska and down along the Pacific coast of North America.
This marine plant grows in rocky, nearshore habitats and cold water up
to 20C.

It creates rich ecosystems, providing habitats for seals, sea otters,
hundreds of fish species and shellfish. These could have been
important sources of food and other resources such as skins for early
peoples.

However, the professor of archaeology says "actually proving such a
migration took place is a very difficult thing to do because of sea
level changes and coastal erosion".

He added: "I think the peopling of the New World was much more complex
than has traditionally been viewed. I think it probably involved
maritime and terrestrial migrations."

Jon Erlandson was speaking at the Calpe Conference 2006 in Gibraltar.

In Wikipedia.  The contents are too long to copy and paste here, but
the link should be permanent...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact

(getting more publicity on the net because of Columbus Day...)

Excellent articles, Stan.  I Google'd a search for Professor Jon
Erlandson of the University of Oregon, is quite young and fortunately
has a long career ahead of him.  I see that he has over 100 scholarly
articles and most recently is answering invitation to present papers
all over the globe.  One list shows the articles on the western US
coastal/island Chumash groups.

I am running a print of this article for my files, perhaps will seek
his email address should anyone have any specific questions and I get
time to do so over the winter when coursework in Madison is completed.

Also printed the comprehensive Wikepedia article (excellent
diffusionism 101 description) to send family members who struggle
with why their mother gets so wrapped up doing PR volunteer work.  My
favorite hobby is  providing support to those exploring evidence as
well as theory pertaining to millinnea of various peoples engaged in
exploration, trade and ancient intercontinental sea-faring to and
from the Great lakes-Mississippi Riverways, Ohio Valley, and beyond.

I am back in Central Wisconsin for the weekend after last week's very
successful 3-day Ancient American Artifact Preservation Foundation
conference in Big Bay, Michigan.  Camped and cooked meals along Lake
Superior, even took a couple of baths in the lake because I was
attending am amicable elbow-to-elbow conference.

  It is uncanny that last Saturday temperatures in Big Bay were in the
80's;  same area this Saturday is under several inches of snow with
what the news is calling all-time record cold for the area--nighttime
temperatures were over sixty degrees colder than last weekend.  The
drastic changes and early snows explain the horrific early winds that
started in last Saturday night.  Big Bay/Marquette isn't far from
where the Edmund Fitzgerald steamer sank.  During the night as 'the
winds of November' shook my tent,Gordon Lightfoot's "Wreck of the
Edmund Fitzgerald" played in my head.  Ancient peoples were probably
wise enough to be out of the Upper Great Lakes long before this time
of year.  Unless the climate several thousand years ago was slightly
warmer than it is now.

After the conference Sunday, I slept overnight in the car atop
Brockway Mountain (1326' above sea level), watching the lights of
large ore boats and foreign vessels passing in the distance.  Unless
I get called to assist with a survey of a remote ancient sites in the
Western UP, last week was probably my last trip to the area for the
year.

Brockway Mountain along US Hwy M-26 in Michigan's Keweenaw Peninsula
is 1326' above sea level, so remote, no cars took the steep drive up
between 8PM EST and 8AM and I had the mountain and view all to
myself. From the top one can see Isle Royale forty miles away on a
clear day. I parked next to the sign which pays tribute to all who
explore the seas and roadways of Keweenaw.  At the close of this e-
note, see verbatum the sign you will read atop Brockway Mt. re:
ancient and historic copper miners. During the late 80's, early 90's
when first interested in ancient copper and intercontinental
seafaring trade, the fellow who manned the station atop Brockway
Mountain, Jim Westcoat, told me when the sign was first proposed and
ready to be inscribed, "thousands of years ago" was changed
to "hundred" to steer away from the controversy which loomed then, as
now, and seems to be a determining factor as to whether one takes
a 'diffusionist' view or an islolationist view.

Writings of Frank Joseph and other sources tell of thousands of small
aboriginal copper pits scattered about, especially the Keweenaw fault
and on Isle Royale.  Prehistoric Copper Mining in the Lake Superior
Region (by Prof. Drier and Octave DuTemple, 1961, 1964-hard copies a
minimum of $50 now, the book still revered by vocational and
avocational researchers tracing evidence of the ancient copper
culture. The book was reprinted a year or so ago in soft cover, costs
only around $15 or so.  Judy Davis who owns the Minnetonka resort and
Museum said 90-something Octave DuTemple came in and signed a number
of copies. John White of the Midwestern Epigraphic Society talked me
out of selling him my singed copy last fall and when I returned to
Minnetonka last month to purchase another signed copy, they are out
until DuTemple and his daughter bring more signed copies to the
store. I wrote a note to PreColumbian Inscriptions awhile back
inserting a few passages from that book, may look for it and put it
in this web site.  My apologies for my slant back to the ancient
Great Lakes copper and sea-faring trade so frequently, but I do think
it was highly significant in the Copper and Bronze Ages and was not
merely a parochial, regional network of isolated trade.

Last Monday went from Copper Harbor to Madison just in time for
classes Monday afternoon (Polysomnography/ Sleep Technology); my
school grant has not yet come in so parked the car overnight at an
ancient waterway site overlooking Lakes Mendota, Minona, and Wingra.
Thanks to Native American groups and Madison preservationists,
approximately 5-10% of the area's ancient and historic mounds were
kept from development/desecration and are still protected. A Native
guide, Larry Johns, former UW Madison friend of Prof. James Scherz
School of Engineering, took several of us on a tour of the area's
effigy mounds and waterway areas.  It was the afternoon just prior to
the Ancient Earthworks Society meeting in Madison where I met Stan
(MinnesotaStan) who designed and set-up this wonderful Ancient
Waterways Society web site. For decades many of us loosely referred
to an Ancient Waterways Society (from references, writings of our
friends Dr. James Scerz, C. Fred Rydholm, Frank Joseph, Wayne May,
David Hoffman---to help present-day international researchers travel
along and better think as did those who traveled ancient 'roadways'
of rivers, lakes, which lead to and from transcontinental seas,
oceans, ports. Now with this site, it provides an avenue to
correspondence, web links, and potentially, papers.

Stan, I haven't had a chance to see if you have shared the two recent
links with other groups which also relate to ancient maritime travel
and diffusion. I believe many from the PreColumbian Inscriptions and
the Thor groups would find the sites interersting. For those
unfamiliar with the above groups:

PreColumbian Inscriptions (Mike White, host):
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/

The Ohio Rock/Thor group:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/

Thank you for setting up this fine web site, Stan.  Not an active
site, it may prove useful at some future date for reasons not
duplicating other web links such as those mentioned above.

See below for the sign and tribute atop Brockway Mt.; it is a stop-
off nearly every visit to the area. Hopefully the view gives
extension, breadth, depth to my own personal 'views'.

Cordially,
M. Susan English
http://hometown.aol.com/suzenglish/myhomepage/profile.html
__________________________________________________________________
  "THE COPPER COUNTRY
AN ANCIENT VANISHED RACE MINED NATIVE COPPER HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO IN
COUNTLESS PITS AND TRENCHES SCATTERED AMONG THE HILLS FROM COPPER
HARBOR TO ONTONAGON AND ON ISLE ROYALE. THE EXPLORER, JACQUES CARTIER
REPORTED IN 1536 THAT INDIANS ON ST. LAWRENCE RIVER TOLD HIM OF GREAT
HILLS OF NATIVE COPPER FAR TO THE WEST.  THE JESUIT, FATHER CLAUDE
ALLOUEZ, WAS THE FIRST WHITE MAN TO REPORT SEEING COPPER ALONG THE
SOUTH SHORE OF LAKE SUPERIOR.  THIS WAS IN 1666.  IN 1971 A COMPANY
WAS ORGANIZED IN LONDON, ENGLAND WHICH SENT AN UNSUCCESSFUL
EXPEDITION TO THESE SHORES TO MINE COPPER. A TREATY BETWEEN THE US
GOVERNMENT AND THE CHIPPEWA INDIANS ON MARCH 12TH, 1843 OPENED THE
DISTRICT TO MINING.  DURING THE SUCCEEDING YEARS, MINES WERE
DISCOVERED THAT FOR TWO GENERATIONS PRODUCED A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF
THE WORLD'S COPPER. THE FIRST SUCCESSFUL MINE WAS THE CLIFF MINE NEAR
PHOENIX ON US 41.  IT WAS LOCATED IN 1844.  THE CONGLOMERATE LODE AT
CALUMET PRODUCED OVER 4,000,000,000 LBS. OF COPPER AND PAID OVER
$160,000,000 IN DIVIDENDS.  SCATTERED ALONG U.S. 41 AND M-26 YOU WILL
FIND ROAD-SIDE MARKERS THAT RECORD ONLY A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE
GHOST MINES IN WHICH THEHOPES, THE AMBITIONS AND THE FORTUNES OF A
TOUCH AND HARDY GROUP OF PIONEERS LIE FOREVER BURIED.  WE PAY TRIBUTE
TO THEIR MEMORY.  iT WAS THEIR COURAGE AND CONFIDENCE THAT LED TO THE
ENRICHMENT OF MANKIND.  IN THE PURE AIR AND THE SCENIC BEAUTY OF
KEWEENAW LAND WE HAVE AN "ORE BODY" THAN CAN NEVER BE "MINED OUT." wE
INVITE YOU TO SHARE IT WITH US AND WISH FOR YOU A PLEASANT AND
MEMORABLE VISIT."  (signed by the  Keweenaw County Road Commission).
_________________________________________________________
--- --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "minnesotastan"
<minnesotastan@...> wrote:
>
> from the BBC -
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5398850.stm
>
> (text here in case the link dies --
>
>  Early humans followed the coast
> By Paul Rincon
> Science reporter, BBC News
>
> Learning how to live off the sea may have played a key role in the
> expansion of early humans around the globe.
>
> After leaving Africa, human groups probably followed coastal routes
to
> the Americas and South-East Asia.
>
> Professor Jon Erlandson says the maritime capabilities of ancient
> humans have been greatly underestimated.
>
> He has found evidence that early peoples in California pursued a
> sophisticated seafaring lifestyle 10,000 years ago.
>
> Anthropologists have long regarded the exploitation of marine
> resources as a recent development in human history, and as
peripheral
> to the development of civilisation.
>
> This view has been reinforced by a relative lack of evidence of
> ancient occupation in coastal areas.
>
> But that view is gradually changing; genetic studies, for example,
> suggest a major early human expansion out of Africa occurred along
the
> southern coastline of Asia, leading to the colonisation of Australia
> 50,000 years ago.
>
> Shifting sea levels since the last Ice Age, combined with coastal
> erosion, would have erased many traces of a maritime past, Professor
> Erlandson explained.
>
> "The story of human evolution and human migrations has been
dominated
> by terrestrial perspectives," the University of Oregon researcher
told
> BBC News.
>
> "I grew up on the coast and I always thought this didn't make much
> sense. Coastlines are exceptionally rich in resources."
>
> Ancient artefacts
>
> Professor Erlandson has carried out extensive excavations on San
> Miguel Island, off the coast of California, which is known to have
> been inhabited at least 13,000 years ago.
>
> About 100,000 seals and sea lions of six different species live on
the
> island. These slow-moving sea mammals would have been easy prey for
> the island's early human inhabitants.
>
> "The big elephant seals weigh over 3,000lbs," he explained. "It has
> always seemed to me that these were a resource that early humans
would
> not want to miss."
>
> One of the digs, at Daisy Cave, on San Miguel Island, has yielded
> about 20 bone "gorges", a form of fish hook.
>
> The gorges were covered with bait to be swallowed whole by fish,
which
> were then reeled in. These are between 8,600 and 9,600 years old and
> are associated with more than 30,000 fish bones. They are the oldest
> examples of such artefacts in the New World.
>
>  Actually proving such a migration took place is a very
difficult
> thing to do because of sea level changes and coastal erosion
> Jon Erlandson, University of Oregon
> The researchers have also recovered fragments of knotted "cordage" -
> woven seagrass - that might have been used to make fishing nets.
These
> delicate items were preserved by pickling under layers of ancient
> cormorant dung.
>
> "The preservation is superb, so we interpreted the cordage as
> 'cut-offs' from the manufacture and maintenance of nets, fishing
> lines, and other maritime-related woven technologies," Professor
> Erlandson said.
>
> At other sites, the researchers have found barbed points that were
> most likely used for hunting sea mammals - possibly sea otters. They
> also unearthed examples of 9,000-year-old basketry as well as
> 8,600-year-old shell bead jewellery.
>
> 'Kelp highway'
>
> The findings from Daisy Cave could be consistent with the idea that
> some of America's first colonists followed a coastal migration route
> from Asia.
>
> Conquering the cold waters of the northern Pacific would have
required
> advanced seafaring skills as well as an ability to successfully
> exploit marine resources.
>
> At the height of the last Ice Age, a land mass called Beringia would
> have connected North-East Asia to North America.
>
> Traditionally, the first Americans were thought to be big game
> hunters, who marched from Siberia across the land bridge to Alaska.
> Then, they were thought to have travelled south through the Canadian
> Arctic via an "ice-free corridor" that emerged in the central US.
>
> But the earliest signs of human occupation from the ice-free
corridor
> date to 11,000 years ago, while California's Channel Islands are now
> known to have been inhabited at least 13,000 years ago.
>
> Professor Erlandson has come up with an alternative theory that
> maritime peoples from Asia followed forests of kelp to the New
World.
>
> Kelp Forest would have hugged the coastline from Japan up through
> Siberia to Alaska and down along the Pacific coast of North America.
> This marine plant grows in rocky, nearshore habitats and cold water
up
> to 20C.
>
> It creates rich ecosystems, providing habitats for seals, sea
otters,
> hundreds of fish species and shellfish. These could have been
> important sources of food and other resources such as skins for
early
> peoples.
>
> However, the professor of archaeology says "actually proving such a
> migration took place is a very difficult thing to do because of sea
> level changes and coastal erosion".
>
> He added: "I think the peopling of the New World was much more
complex
> than has traditionally been viewed. I think it probably involved
> maritime and terrestrial migrations."
>
> Jon Erlandson was speaking at the Calpe Conference 2006 in
Gibraltar.
>

on the BBC website.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4593717.stm

Nothing new, but a brief summary, and it provides a link (upper right)
to Friends of Admiral Zheng He site, which in turn has an accessible
Word-formatted article on the noncontroversial role of Zheng He in
exploring Southeast Asia.  Whether his treasure fleet reached (and
circumnavigated) the Americas in another question (but one I find
appealing).

Kudos to Susan for her post re early history and events of the copper
country.  I was up there a couple years ago with a mineralogical group
to explore mines and mine tailings for specimens.  It's a very special
and evocative part of the country.  I agree there should be more
emphasis on our website re American Waterways, and especially the U.P.
and its role in the early contact period.  I think that will come with
time.  Thanks, Susan, for getting it started.

stan

Speaking of a mineralogical group, Stan, below is a phenominal web site
set up by a very elderly, recently retired veterinarian in Wausau,
Wisconsin where I reside have of the week and his son. Though not
diffusionists, per se, Dr. Johnson and his son (I believe from St.
Louis)  have an exceptional collection of artifacts from both the
ancient and historic mining eras in the Great Lakes.

  http://www.copperculture.homestead.com/

Doc welcomes tours and has had many groups of school children as well
as researchers, professors from distant parts of the country. When I
accompanied Ancient American friends there a couple of years ago,
Marquette historian Fred Rydhom interviewed Doc Johnson to include in
his now, recently-released book.

Dr. Johnson and his wife were also very active in an international gem
and mineral society and much of that collection is also on display in
the basement.

Anyone driving through Central Wisconsin who would like to visit Dr.
Johnson's basement old copper museum before the collection is
eventually moved south to the son's collection, I would be happy to set
up a time with the Johnson's.

Susan English
beldingenglish@...

I had previously encountered that website, which certainly is, to my
knowledge, the premier Copper Culture artifact collection online.
Those who haven't clicked on the link should do so, and gaze in awe at
the material assembled there.

Here's another link re Copper Culture - this one less reality-based
and a little more toward the "fringe" (but still interesting)...

http://www.geocities.com/stoahist/Acheron.html

Fred Rydholm will be the featured speaker for the January meeting of
the Ancient Earthworks Society...


7:00 PM Thursday, January 18th, 2007
Retired Prof. FRED RYDHOLM: "The Copper Culture and Wisconsin, UP
Michigan and Great Lakes History"

You won't want to miss this exciting presentation. Fred will be coming
to us via video conferencing from a university in northern Michigan.
(Bring on the technology!) The video is live from both ends so there
will be interaction and the ability to ask questions. The last time
Fred spoke to AES we went until 10 PM and people said they could have
stayed all night listening to Fred!

In the event Fred Rydholm is not able to present on January 18th, Dr.
Gary Maier has graciously agreed to be our backup speaker. If Fred is
able to present in January, Gary will present at our February meeting.
An announcement will go out closer to the meeting with final details.

We will be meeting at the UW Health Science Learning Center, 750
Highland Avenue, Madison, room 1309, on the first floor. This room is
right next to the entrance off the small (permit at all times) parking
lot right off the building, in case you are dropping someone off. We
hope to meet in this room for the next few months. Park free after
4:30 in nearby Lot 76, or right next to the HSLC in the regular
hospital ramp for $1 an hour.

Scientists study Michigan land bridge
Research is the subject of a documentary about the ancient Great Lakes
The Associated Press
Updated: 12:11 p.m. CT Dec 19, 2006

PONTIAC, Mich. - Scientists hope to learn more about what the Great
Lakes' shorelines looked like about 10,000 years ago. They explored a
limestone land bridge that went from Alpena to Goderich, Ontario — a
distance of about 125 miles — and an underwater forest of petrified
trees in Lake Huron.

The 2006 research, in which more than 500 dives were made, is the
subject of a documentary film, "Great Lakes, Ancient Shores,
Sinkholes." It premiered recently at the Cranbrook Institute of Arts
in Bloomfield Hills, The Oakland Press reported in a story published
Monday.

Another study is planned for 2007 and should result in a second film,
"Great Lakes, Ancient Shores," said Luke Clyburn, lieutenant commander
of the Great Lakes Division of the U.S. Naval Sea Cadet Corps and a
Great Lakes ship captain.

"What we are learning about the Great Lakes of several thousand years
ago may change the way we think of this area," Clyburn said.

Clyburn and other scientists have been filming in the Great Lakes for
at least 25 years.

There is a petrified forest in 40 feet of water in Lake Huron about
two miles offshore from Lexington, he said. Some of the trees have
been carbon-dated to indicate they are 6,980 years old.

The Straits of Mackinac, a passage between lakes Michigan and Huron,
have been spanned by the Mackinac Bridge since the mid-1950s but
didn't exist several thousand years ago, Clyburn said.

"Lake Michigan was much higher than Lake Huron, and the two did not
join as they do today at the straits," he said. But water from Lake
Michigan seeped underground toward Lake Huron and the two bodies of
water eventually became connected.

Clyburn's current film focuses on a sinkhole in Lake Huron about two
miles from Alpena near Middle Island. In prehistoric times, the
sinkholes were on dry land. Native Americans lived near these
sinkholes because they provided water, which attracted game, he said.
© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may
not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16280930/

Stan and all,

Just home for the holidays from Madison the evening your note posted
about the possible Fred Rydholm teleconference talk at the January
Ancient Earthworks Society meeting in Madison. I will be in Madison
doing clinicals most of January, yet that Thursday evening is free
and I would enjoy attending the January meeting.

Tonight I phoned one of the Ancient Earthworks Society founders,
retired Prof. James Scherz who lives part of the time here in Wausau
(also, Madison and Sauk City). He hadn't heard yet of the upcoming
teleconference, told me to check further for him. We will meet
downtown tomorrow for lunch and use my cell phone to call Fred.

When Jim visited the Rydholms in Marquette last month, Fred gave him
a copy of his new book to pass on to me. I need to personally
thank him for it. The book is so popular Fred is scheduled to give a
considerable number of talks as well as media programs since its
release. The 2006 book by C. Fred Rydholm is titled: "MICHIGAN COPPER-
The Untold Story-A History of Discovery"

I pulled up the Ancient Earthworks Society web page this evening and
do not see anything about the AES January meeting:

http://www.madison.com/communities/aes/index.php

If you have another AES web site as well as further information on an
alternate/or February speaker, please pass that along also.

Most appreciative of your recent postings, Stan. Hopefully will have
time to delve a bit more deeply during the two weeks of vacation from
classes and hospital clinicals.

Respectfully,
M. Susan English


--- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "minnesotastan"
<minnesotastan@...> wrote:

Fred Rydholm will be the featured speaker for the January meeting of
the Ancient Earthworks Society...

7:00 PM Thursday, January 18th, 2007
Retired Prof. FRED RYDHOLM: "The Copper Culture and Wisconsin, UP
Michigan and Great Lakes History"

You won't want to miss this exciting presentation. Fred will be coming
to us via video conferencing from a university in northern Michigan.
(Bring on the technology!) The video is live from both ends so there
will be interaction and the ability to ask questions. The last time
Fred spoke to AES we went until 10 PM and people said they could have
stayed all night listening to Fred!

In the event Fred Rydholm is not able to present on January 18th, Dr.
Gary Maier has graciously agreed to be our backup speaker. If Fred is
able to present in January, Gary will present at our February meeting.
An announcement will go out closer to the meeting with final details.

We will be meeting at the UW Health Science Learning Center, 750
Highland Avenue, Madison, room 1309, on the first floor. This room is
right next to the entrance off the small (permit at all times) parking
lot right off the building, in case you are dropping someone off. We
hope to meet in this room for the next few months. Park free after
4:30 in nearby Lot 76, or right next to the HSLC in the regular
hospital ramp for $1 an hour.

Stan & Ancient Waterways correspondents,

AES founder, retired UW prof. James Scherz, another friend Laurie,
and I met this afternoon, discussed Ed Grondine's "Man & Impact on
the Americas". Jim purchased five copies of Ed's book and included
exerpts into his own "working paper". Ed was a speaker at the
October, 2006 Ancient American Artifact Preservation Foundation
conference in Big Bay, Michigan.

We also viewed Robert Starling's taster DVD which he presented at the
AAAPF conference; Starling is looking for sponsors, hopes soon to
begin filming: "They All Discovered America".

We viewed Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth", then phoned the
Rydholms in Marquette who were planning on watching the Al Gore video
this very evening.  The Rydholms have taken trips to the Arctic
circle, are also very actively involved in mining issues impacting
the environment around their Lake Superior house and 'camp'.

Fred said he was looking forward to speaking via teleconference next
month at the Ancient Earthworks Society meeting on the UW Madison
campus.  He was unaware of the date and time, said a Matt Morrison
from SuperiorHearlands.com is handling the arrangments. From the web
site is information for contacting Mr. Morrison:

matt.morrison@...
393 West Crescent Street, Marquette, MI 49855
Phone: (906)226-9849

Fred said he would appreciate it if I would copy and paste your note
from the Ancient Waterways Society site.  I asked him to let either
of us know if there will be changes in the AES schedule.

I'd mentioned Fred's book in a post yesterday to this Ancient
Waterways Society; books and CD's can be purchased at superior
heartlands web site: http://superiorheartland.com/

Jim Scherz will be working an hour or two south of Madison January
18th, plans on driving up for the meeting.  Following a night shift
at a Madison hospital, I will stick around that evening to attend the
meeting before returning to Central Wisconsin. Hopefully the group
will meet two or three hours earlier for dinner (and let us out-
of=towners know ahead of time).

I read your post to Jim Scherz, Stan. He said to mention to all of
you that Gary Maier is an exceptional speaker and not one to miss,
either---whenever it is he will be scheduled to speak at the AES
meeting.

Yours truly,
M. Susan English
http://hometown.aol.com/suzenglish/myhomepage/profile.html
___________________________________________________
--- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "Susan English"
<beldingenglish@...> wrote:
>
> Stan and all,
>
> Just home for the holidays from Madison the evening your note
posted
> about the possible Fred Rydholm teleconference talk at the January
> Ancient Earthworks Society meeting in Madison. I will be in Madison
> doing clinicals most of January, yet that Thursday evening is free
> and I would enjoy attending the January meeting.
>
> Tonight I phoned one of the Ancient Earthworks Society founders,
> retired Prof. James Scherz who lives part of the time here in
Wausau
> (also, Madison and Sauk City). He hadn't heard yet of the upcoming
> teleconference, told me to check further for him. We will meet
> downtown tomorrow for lunch and use my cell phone to call Fred.
>
> When Jim visited the Rydholms in Marquette last month, Fred gave
him
> a copy of his new book to pass on to me. I need to personally
> thank him for it. The book is so popular Fred is scheduled to give
a
> considerable number of talks as well as media programs since its
> release. The 2006 book by C. Fred Rydholm is titled: "MICHIGAN
COPPER-
> The Untold Story-A History of Discovery"
>
> I pulled up the Ancient Earthworks Society web page this evening
and
> do not see anything about the AES January meeting:
>
> http://www.madison.com/communities/aes/index.php
>
> If you have another AES web site as well as further information on
an
> alternate/or February speaker, please pass that along also.
>
> Most appreciative of your recent postings, Stan. Hopefully will
have
> time to delve a bit more deeply during the two weeks of vacation
from
> classes and hospital clinicals.
>
> Respectfully,
> M. Susan English
>
>
> --- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "minnesotastan"
> <minnesotastan@> wrote:
>
> Fred Rydholm will be the featured speaker for the January meeting of
> the Ancient Earthworks Society...
>
> 7:00 PM Thursday, January 18th, 2007
> Retired Prof. FRED RYDHOLM: "The Copper Culture and Wisconsin, UP
> Michigan and Great Lakes History"
>
> You won't want to miss this exciting presentation. Fred will be
coming
> to us via video conferencing from a university in northern Michigan.
> (Bring on the technology!) The video is live from both ends so there
> will be interaction and the ability to ask questions. The last time
> Fred spoke to AES we went until 10 PM and people said they could
have
> stayed all night listening to Fred!
>
> In the event Fred Rydholm is not able to present on January 18th,
Dr.
> Gary Maier has graciously agreed to be our backup speaker. If Fred
is
> able to present in January, Gary will present at our February
meeting.
> An announcement will go out closer to the meeting with final
details.
>
> We will be meeting at the UW Health Science Learning Center, 750
> Highland Avenue, Madison, room 1309, on the first floor. This room
is
> right next to the entrance off the small (permit at all times)
parking
> lot right off the building, in case you are dropping someone off. We
> hope to meet in this room for the next few months. Park free after
> 4:30 in nearby Lot 76, or right next to the HSLC in the regular
> hospital ramp for $1 an hour.
>

Stan, thank you for sending the recent MSNBC article, "Scientists
study Michigan land bridge".  The 2006 and upcoming 2007 documentary
on "Great Lakes, Ancient Shores" are films I truly don't want to
miss.  If any of you come across dates/times/places for either of
these, please post to this site or to a personal email.

That area of research, Stan, may also interrelate to a link I sent
today in regarad to work by Canadian and Michigan geologists on the
continuing discoveries of whale bones found around Lake Michigan.

MSE
http://hometown.aol.com/suzenglish/myhomepage/profile.html

--- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "minnesotastan"
<minnesotastan@...> wrote:

Scientists study Michigan land bridge
Research is the subject of a documentary about the ancient Great
Lakes The Associated Press
Updated: 12:11 p.m. CT Dec 19, 2006

PONTIAC, Mich. - Scientists hope to learn more about what the Great
Lakes' shorelines looked like about 10,000 years ago. They explored a
limestone land bridge that went from Alpena to Goderich, Ontario — a
distance of about 125 miles — and an underwater forest of petrified
trees in Lake Huron.

The 2006 research, in which more than 500 dives were made, is the
subject of a documentary film, "Great Lakes, Ancient Shores,
Sinkholes." It premiered recently at the Cranbrook Institute of Arts
in Bloomfield Hills, The Oakland Press reported in a story published
Monday.

Another study is planned for 2007 and should result in a second
film, "Great Lakes, Ancient Shores," said Luke Clyburn, lieutenant
commander of the Great Lakes Division of the U.S. Naval Sea Cadet
Corps and a Great Lakes ship captain.

"What we are learning about the Great Lakes of several thousand years
ago may change the way we think of this area," Clyburn said.

Clyburn and other scientists have been filming in the Great Lakes for
at least 25 years.

There is a petrified forest in 40 feet of water in Lake Huron about
two miles offshore from Lexington, he said. Some of the trees have
been carbon-dated to indicate they are 6,980 years old.

The Straits of Mackinac, a passage between lakes Michigan and Huron,
have been spanned by the Mackinac Bridge since the mid-1950s but
didn't exist several thousand years ago, Clyburn said.

"Lake Michigan was much higher than Lake Huron, and the two did not
join as they do today at the straits," he said. But water from Lake
Michigan seeped underground toward Lake Huron and the two bodies of
water eventually became connected.

Clyburn's current film focuses on a sinkhole in Lake Huron about two
miles from Alpena near Middle Island. In prehistoric times, the
sinkholes were on dry land. Native Americans lived near these
sinkholes because they provided water, which attracted game, he
said.  © 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This
material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16280930/

Hi Susan,Stan and other members
       My name is Steve and I am from west central minnesota. I do
ancient viking research and have found an interesting map that members
may not have. There are a set of 48 maps that are the original land
survey from the mid 1800,s. These maps cover an area from the dakota
minnesota border, east thru wisconsin and Michigan. They are very
detailed and the whole set is over $200. Each map is 2x3 and is $5 and
can be ordered separately. These maps are copywrited and so can be
only purchased from the Trygg Land Office in Ely minnesota...

http://www.trygglandoffice.com/maps.html

These maps have been a great help in  my research. They show clearly
the higher water marks that the first settlers were encountering and
the waterways that were once the highways to the interior.

   In the last year I have began viewing the glass not as half full or
half empty but as FULL and the midwest covered by water and large
shallow inland seas. I started with an all blue picture and then
started dropping the waters and mapping the islands as they began to
emerge. Soon I could then see the remains of these inland seas and
ancient waterways on the trygg land maps.

   On the (KRS) kensington runestone, the last line says, "from this
island,year 1362"..... ISLAND???.Where was the water???

I have tried this last year to picture the more extreme high waters
that would correspond with the different dates. Norse explorers of
1362, viking explorers of a 1000 years ago and then even more ancients
of 2-5 thousand years ago.

In july I found a new higher water mark and have begun mapping these
beaches. I am working on these maps this winter and mapping these
islands as the ancients would have found them.

Thanks and happy hunting in the new year.

STEVE

Welcome Steve,

Thank you for coming on board to our site...from your ancient
waterway in W. Minnesota or coastal Santa Cruz, California, to each
of ours.

Mutual friend Marion Dahm spoke frequently and fondly of you,
Steve, was enthusiastic about the work you were doing in regard to
the Kensington Runestone, ancient viking seafarer exploration of
North America, and especially mooring stones. Days prior to Marion's
untimely death, I'd spent over an hour on the phone reading to him,
verbatum, letters you and others had posted to the PreColumbian
Inscriptions and Ohio Rock "thor" group message boards.  Marion
remarked that you were a real sleuth and no doubt possessed the same
kind of passion and energy for the kind of work that both of you
were doing. He added, that you would need it.  I, too, miss him very
much. See Posts #30, 31, & 35 to this group, particularly the fine
eulogy about Marion from Ancient Waterways Society member Pam Giese
that she wrote to the "thor group" and also included in a post to
this group.

Surveyor James Scherz, also a longtime friend of Marion, had been
planning an October, 2006 trip with Marion up to Lake Nipigon or
Nippising (cannot redcall the name of the Canadian lake) prior to the
AAAPF Conference. Jim is courting my good friend Laurie in Central
Wisconsin and spends considerable amounts of time in the Wausau area.
He stopped yesterday while I was seated reading posts.  I showed him
the Ancient Waterways Society web site and your post, which he asked
me to run a print of.  Also a couple of posts from Stan re: the AES
meeting Jan. 18th (which he plans to attend), along with the whale
bone and MSNBC article about the upcoming documentary on the Great
Lakes 10,000 years ago.

I have long been using the name "Ancient Waterways Society" based on
papers by retired UW Madison prof. James Scherz, also from
writings and talks by Fred Rydholm, author/researcher David Hoffman,
and others.  Marion Dahm also included himself as a member of
an "Ancient Waterways Society" but did not own a computer in order to
follow group posts. All three friends listed above held very close
ties with Marion Dahm, housed him when Marion asked me to transport
him through northern Wisconsin, Keweenaw Peninsula, Marquette, then
down along Lake Michigan to Door County where Marion was following up
a lead seeking his first mooring stone in that area.

In your post, Steve, did you indicate that you purchased an entire
set of the mid-1800's survey maps of Minnesota?  Dr. Scherz is
working with a survey group researching the origins of the
Mississippi River and we wondered if a single survey map can be
purchased. I want to mention to this group, by the way, that when I
first told him an Ancient Waterways Society web page had been set up,
Jim thought this site would be a good place for researchers to
display papers. He offered a full 24 page research article to us to
post to this site, which he also sells through the Ancient American
Magazine Book Club. The retired professor doesn't have an operational
computer; I don't own Microsoft Word, am using dial-up service, and
neither the computer nor myself has the sophistication to download
large files. Title page of Jim's paper reads:

"OLD WATER LEVELS AND WATERWAYS During the Ancient Copper Mining Era
(about 3000 BC to 1000 BC)"

James P. Scherz, Prof. Emeritus
Dept. of Civil and Environmental Engineering
(Surveying and Mapping Section)
University of Wisconsin
Madison, WIsconsin
July, 1999

David Hoffman,  mentioned above, emailed a day or two ago he was
having difficulty signing on as a member of this web group so that he
could write posts. His latest work on ancient seafarers into the
Great Lakes focuses on a N. Wisconsin origin of the Wisconsin River.
I emailed back to David that I believe one must first sign on as a
member of Yahoo groups, which includes obtaining a Yahoo email
address.  When I joined my first Yahoogroup (PreColumbian
Inscriptions), a post to the group from Mike White assisted me step-
by-step in joining. I have been unable to find Mike's helpful message
to that site.

Before signing off, I wish to include other web groups mentioned
in this letter.  A few of us posting here view Messages or are
members of the other specialty Yahoogroups:

PreColumbain Inscriptions (host Mike White):
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/

The Thor (Ohio Rock) site (host William Smith):
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/thor-thehuntersohiorock/

American Runestones (recently resurrected by Steven Hilgren):
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/americanrunestones/

Ancient American Artifact Preservation Foundation (AAAPF), host Rick
Osmond, Indiana):
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/americanrunestones/

Looking forward to hearing more about your work. Also from those of
you who continue on patiently, as members, despite the sometimes
infrequency of posts.  We do hope that the letters posted here make
it worthwhile.  Any comments or ideas to improve this web page would
be welcome.

Sincerely,

M. Susan English

--- In ancient_waterways_society@yahoogroups.com, "hilgren"
<hilgren@...> wrote:

Hi Susan,Stan and other members
       My name is Steve and I am from west central minnesota. I do
ancient viking research and have found an interesting map that members
may not have. There are a set of 48 maps that are the original land
survey from the mid 1800,s. These maps cover an area from the dakota
minnesota border, east thru wisconsin and Michigan. They are very
detailed and the whole set is over $200. Each map is 2x3 and is $5 and
can be ordered separately. These maps are copywrited and so can be
only purchased from the Trygg Land Office in Ely minnesota...

http://www.trygglandoffice.com/maps.html

These maps have been a great help in  my research. They show clearly
the higher water marks that the first settlers were encountering and
the waterways that were once the highways to the interior.

   In the last year I have began viewing the glass not as half full or
half empty but as FULL and the midwest covered by water and large
shallow inland seas. I started with an all blue picture and then
started dropping the waters and mapping the islands as they began to
emerge. Soon I could then see the remains of these inland seas and
ancient waterways on the trygg land maps.

   On the (KRS) kensington runestone, the last line says, "from this
island,year 1362"..... ISLAND???.Where was the water???

I have tried this last year to picture the more extreme high waters
that would correspond with the different dates. Norse explorers of
1362, viking explorers of a 1000 years ago and then even more ancients
of 2-5 thousand years ago.

In july I found a new higher water mark and have begun mapping these
beaches. I am working on these maps this winter and mapping these
islands as the ancients would have found them.

Thanks and happy hunting in the new year.

STEVE

Ancient Waterways Society members,

Already in the works is the 3rd Annual Ancient American Artifact
Preservation Foundation (AAAPF) Conference, scheduled October 5-7th,
2007 in Wilmington,Ohio. The official AAAPF web site's Home Page is:
http://www.aaapf.org/scripts/openExtra.asp?extra=1

The 2007 AAAPF Conference web page is:
http://www.aaapf.org/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=37
_____________________________________________________________
(Scanned, pasted from the site, but best to check page directly):

Annual International AAAPF Conference 2007 (AAAPF Conference 07)

The date and the place has been set for the 3rd annual Conference on
Ancient America. Limited to 500 Registrants
Day Tickets Must be Pre-Registered to Guarantee Your Seat:

Ancient American Artifact Preservation Foundation Conference 2007

October 5-7

Roberts Conference Centre
Holiday Inn and Max & Irma's Restaurant
Wilmington, Ohio

You can be part of the cutting edge of discoveries; of people with
diverse knowledge and findings coming together; sharing, and finding
NEW connections, and NEW solutions to the always intriguing Ancient
American Puzzle.

See, Hear, Meet- Top speakers in the fields of:
Ancient Waterways
Mounds and Caves
Ancient Copper
Epigraphy
Artifacts
Navigation Evidences
Standing Stones
Ancient Astronomy
Anthropology
Archaeology
and much more.......!

We'll have representation from:
NEARA, MES, Ancient Waterways, Ancient Earthworks, AAAPF, Ohio State
University, Ohio State Archaeology, Ancient American Magazine, ...
and more to come.

Entire conference (per person), exhibits and program fee $75 plus 2
breakfasts, 2 lunches, 2 dinners @ $120 = Full ConferenceTicket of
$195. Optional Fort Ancient ticket on Sunday group outing is special
price of just $6.

DAY TICKETS-Friday ticket without lunch and dinner (12 hrs programs
and exhibits) - $50

Friday ticket with bkfst $12, lunch $15, and dinner $25 (12 hrs
programs and exhibits) - $100

Saturday ticket without lunch and dinner (13 hrs programs &
exhibits) - $50

Saturday ticket with breakfast $12, lunch $15, and dinner $25 (13 hrs
programs and exhibits) - $100

Regular lodging at Robert's/Holiday Inn is $135. We have negotiated a
price of $93 for any number of people per room. Bookings may be made
by calling the hotel directly. Be sure and mention AAAPF Conference
to get your special price. www.robertscentre.com Phone 800-654-7036

Watch for further details and printable registration materials--SOON

Judy M Johnson AAAPF Sec.
810-299-5210

Good Sunday Morning

Hi Susan and thanks for your reply. It is always good
to hear from you. My internet is wireless and portable
but seasonal and when I get to rural minnesota it
stops. BUT a new coffee shop has just opened in
Alexandria and I will now be able to get online a few
minutes a week. Here in california I live next to the
silicon valley and have the best ,,but then the north
woods of minnesota is the dark side of the moon.

...I do not have much interest in the west coast
waterways other than walking along them  but I do try
to use it for it,s cutting edge tech and it gives me a
bit of time away to correspond,read, etc.

Susan wrote:   "Steve, did you indicate that you
purchased an entire
set of the mid-1800's survey maps of Minnesota? Dr.
Scherz is
working with a survey group researching the origins of
the
Mississippi River and we wondered if a single survey
map can be
purchased."
I have only 4 maps and they sell for $6 each and can
be purchased separately. It would take you about 10
maps for the upper mississippi. At their site you are
given a map to chose from:  Minn,
#1,2,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,19 and iowa #1. are the numbers
I would guess???that would get the river bottom of
today.
  please,,NOW,however you need to see the world a bit
different than you may be use too...I am trying to
paint a new picture for EVERYONE based on the
discoverys of this last year. There is NO upper
mississippi river BUT it is a center and deepest point
of a LARGE inland sea. The west shore of this sea is
here in west central minnesota and the east shore is
not yet visible and may be near Duluth. When I put all
my maps together and put it up on the wall,,,out
jumped the new sea and the beaches along the edge of
that sea are marked on these maps. Here in west
central minn is two large islands and a cluster of
smaller islands on witch is the KRS.
   ALSO,,,please note,,,there is no old upper
mississippi river valley before 1400,s,,,,Schoolcraft
was the indian agent who found itasca BUT Zebulin Pike
found the source somewhere else and I have a map that
also shows it in west central minnesota. Itasca was a
good place for a park, thats all! The lake in west
central minn is higher than itasca and also flows 3
directions and to the missippi,red river and hudson
bay and to lake superior.

you also wrote: "mailed back to David that I believe
one must first sign on as a
member of Yahoo groups, which includes obtaining a
Yahoo email
address."
  that is probably best but not maybe necessary,,,but i
do notice that it is easyier to load photos to FILES
rather than photos.
   I also belong to Thor and Pre columbus and American
runestones etc.

   This week I will be trying to scan my maps and
sattelite photos into my laptop and then post to your
sites and mine.They will give you a better look at
these maps. I spend hours looking at them and trying
to defind these ancient shores. ODDLY too,,these maps
have all the log cabins at the time and now have led
me to finding many of them too.

   I look foreward to discussions in the coming month.
There is so much to do,,,as the picture on the puzzle
box gets clearer and clearer and bigger too. The beach
I found on this hillside this last summer is a WHOLE
NEW WORLD,,or old. This is maybe the highest watermark
of that greatflood on this inland sea.

   I would call this new sea,,, Lake MARION or the
Marion OCEAN or the marion sea?????and i did get to
show him that sea last summer and we drove along it,s
beach. Here is the small bay which is a swamp today
and has my ship and also along this great new beach I
took the mooring stone photo with marion and leland.

   I wish that some of these unused buttons on here
could be used and one was an excitement button,,,as I
would be pressing it often. I have learned to read the
KRS and the map on it. I would be pressing that
excitement button again...!?

   Also i would hope that you and your friends know
about the free google earth and the new updates that
make flying obselete. They make tracing the river
simpler and it,s always a clear and sunny summer day
photo.

  have a great day

     steve


ps,,susan...i got poor grades in english and my typing
skills have now graduated to two fingers....I took
shop class ,,,and have been building new homes and
remodeling for 25years. sorry!





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