Dear Ed,
Sorry not to be any help on your warrior, but I would be extremely
interested to hear of (and see in due course) any *stamped* C4th pottery
that might appear from your 3.5 tons.

I am working on a Corpus of C4th stamped pottery, to be compared with AS
stamps to see if continuity can be established. I would of course embargo
details until you publish as the Archive already does for AS stamped
pottery.

Many thanks in advance
Yours ever

Diana C. Briscoe
Archive of Anglo-Saxon Pottery Stamps
124 Cholmley Gardens
Fortune Green Road
London NW6 1AA

Tel: +44­(0)20 7794­6300
Fax: +44­(0)20 7431­1612
E-mail: ASArchive@...

The New York Times has a report on a US academic who
attempted to smuggle an amphora out of Greece.  You can read it
at:

http://www10.nytimes.com/aponline/i/AP-Greece-Antiquites.html

(you may need to register first).

Sue.

Some information about arch-pot for those who haven't previously
discovered eGroups.

At the last count, there are 82 members of the group.  To see
who's joined, you can visit the group's website at:

http://www.egroups.com/group/arch-pot

You may need to register to get access to the list.

Other benefits include being able to post pictures and files on the
site for other members to look at (thus avoiding those irritating and
potentially dangerous attachments - which are banned anyway :) ),
and you can also add links to your favourite websites.

There is a chat room at the website if anyone feels inclined to chat
about pottery...

Please let me know if you hear of anyone having trouble joining the
group, or tell them to contact me.

Sue.
arch-pot moderator.

Dear Sue

have just tried to connect to archpot to look at the membership list via AOL
only to be informed that no such group exists. Is there any help available

Bernard Barr

On Monday, July 3rd, Diana C. Briscoe, from Archive of Anglo-Saxon Pottery
Stamps, wrote;

>I am working on a Corpus of C4th stamped pottery, to be compared with AS
>stamps to see if continuity can be established.

Hello Diana, my name is Marjorie Lenehan. I am a Fine Arts (Ceramics major)
student currently studying for my Masters (Art Theory) at the Tasmania
University.

Whilst I know next to nothing about archaeology, I have an interest in
pottery ranging from the Roman occupation of Britain to about 1400 AD.  I am
learning to make pieces that resemble early pottery to sell to my friends in
the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism), so that I can remain financially
afloat during my studies.  So far the little that I have made and sold has
been very rewarding.

At the same time, making 'period' pottery serves to educate re-creationists
(including  myself), so whilst I make my work to conform to modern health
standards (lead free glazes etc.), I also like to be able to point out
differences between it and the real thing, so (self) education is something
I hope to glean from this list.

So this now leads me to this email listing (arch-pot) and so far I am both
captivated and frustrated.  I am very grateful when someone points out a
publication with illustrations of period pieces (individual pieces as well
as generalities such as profiles). I don't have enough familiarity with
archeological terms used to describe decorative types and techniques, so
pictures and publications are very helpful.

I am very interested in the idea of C4th stamps as an area for me to
explore.  Is there a publication you can recommend to me with a good range
of examples illustrated?  Alternatively perhaps there is a good publication
that deals with early British and early European pottery that you could
recommend to me?

Archaeology is unavailable at Tas. Uni and so the State and Uni libraries
don't cater for it.

Many thanks for your time.

Marjorie Lenehan
c/o Tasmania University
Centre for the Arts
Hunter Street
Hobart, Tasmania, 7000
Australia

email;  mlenehan@...

Dear Bernard,

Did you click on the link in my last message - I have just tried it
and it took me straight there.  If this doesn't work, then I don't know
what to suggest, unless it's a problem with aol.

Try again at:

http://www.egroups.com/group/arch-pot

Or you could try the eGroups website for help.

Sorry i cam't be of more help, Sue.



On 3 Jul 2000, at 15:29, B22443054@... wrote:

>
> Dear Sue
>
> have just tried to connect to archpot to look at the membership list via AOL
> only to be informed that no such group exists. Is there any help available
>
> Bernard Barr
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Life's too short to send boring email. Let SuperSig come to the rescue.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/6137/1/_/_/_/962652584/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> arch-pot-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>

Dear Diana

Your reply a day or two ago to a gentleman named Ed intrigued me. What is a
'warrior pot'?
It would be of interest to know who Ed is and where his tons of pottery came
from.
There might just be some Hadham Ware amongst it. Did I miss an earlier
contribution to arch-pot perhaps before I joined


Bernard Barr

Angela Simco is preparing a shortlist of clay industry sites as part
of English Heritage's Monuments Protection Programme.  This
covers all aspects of the subject - extraction and all forms of
processing, including pottery production.  If you would like to make
any suggestions of sites which may be worth considering for
statutory protection, please contact:

   Angela Simco
   13 Green Lane
   Clapham
   Bedford
   MK41 6EP

   Tel:  01234 354130
   e-mail:  angela.simco@...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sue Anderson
Finds Manager
Suffolk CC Archaeological Service,
Shire Hall, Bury St. Edmunds IP33 2AR.  Tel. 01284 352446.
Please note: the views contained in this message are
those of the individual and do not necessarily represent
the views of the County Council.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The 3 tons + of Roman pot come from the long running EH excavations at Stanwick,
Northamptonshire which finished in 1991. The intriguing 'gentleman named Ed' is
currently working towards publication of this material at the Centre for
Archaeology at Fort Cumberland, Portsmouth. The warrior pot is just a short-hand
way of referring to the vessel as described in my last e-mail - the Lower Nene
Colour Coat jar with a painted 'warrior' figure.

There is indeed some Hadham ware (mainly oxidised type) from the Stanwick
excavations though not much. Most comes from the area of the late (C4) villa.
Forms comprise mainly bowl-jars with some beakers, flagons and a bowl with
'Romano-Saxon' type decoration.

hope this helps

Ed McSloy

>>> <B22443054@...> 07/04 9:27 am >>>

Dear Diana

Your reply a day or two ago to a gentleman named Ed intrigued me. What is a
'warrior pot'?
It would be of interest to know who Ed is and where his tons of pottery came
from.
There might just be some Hadham Ware amongst it. Did I miss an earlier
contribution to arch-pot perhaps before I joined


Bernard Barr

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and it may contain confidential or privileged information. If you
have received it in error, please notify us immediately and delete
the e-mail. You must not copy, distribute, disclose or take any
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Facsimile 020 7973 3001
_________________________________________________________________

Ed McSloy <Ed.McSloy@...> writes
>The 3 tons + of Roman pot come from the long running EH excavations at
>Stanwick,
>Northamptonshire which finished in 1991. The intriguing 'gentleman named Ed' is
>currently working towards publication of this material at the Centre for
>Archaeology at Fort Cumberland, Portsmouth. The warrior pot is just a short-
>hand
>way of referring to the vessel as described in my last e-mail - the Lower Nene
>Colour Coat jar with a painted 'warrior' figure.

Hi Ed,

Interesting use of a "new term" for otherwise well-named Nene Valley CC
wares.  Are you sure this is a "warrior" (say it like Worf in Star Trek)
on the pot?  A hunting scene, perhaps?  In which case, this might more
properly be termed a "hunt cup".  Just a thought.

It'd be interesting to see what you mean.  Can you scan the image and
post it to the shared files section?  (In case you're not familiar with
this, see our eGroups web page - click on "files" and then just follow
the on-screen instructions.  Load it up as a low res (72dpi) .jpg)

By the way - good luck with the Stanwick pottery: I worked on it post-ex
in 1991 together with Rob Perrin, whilst I was in the employ of Fort
Cumberland.  A terrible mess of excavator-washed and miss-marked sherds
(ooops - I shouldn't say that!), as I remember.

Phil Copleston

hello Phil
               Oh dear - I only use the term 'warrior pot' as a rather romantic
short-hand. I shall however now refrain from using the term and will now call it
'the Lower Nene Valley narrow necked jar with painted (not barbotine) decoration
showing a figure with sword, shield, and helmet'.

Sarcasm aside, this vessel seems to belong to a different tradition to the
barbotine decorated LNVCC beaker types. Firstly it's not a beaker, secondly the
decoration is 'flat' - applied with a finger or brush rather than 'trailed' like
a slip and thirdly it seems to be rather later - almost certainly after c.275
AD. The subject matter has some affinities with the earlier tradition - the
figure may represent a gladiator or Mars-like deity but that's really as far as
it goes

As they say a picture paints a 1000 words so I'll attempt to post an image or
the warrior - sorry LNVCC jar with painted ..etc in the shared files. I'll also
bring him along to the SGRP meeting in September at Chelmesford.

Ed McSloy

>>> Phil Copleston <arch-pot@...> 07/04 2:32 pm >>>
Ed McSloy <Ed.McSloy@...> writes
>The 3 tons + of Roman pot come from the long running EH excavations at
>Stanwick,
>Northamptonshire which finished in 1991. The intriguing 'gentleman named Ed' is
>currently working towards publication of this material at the Centre for
>Archaeology at Fort Cumberland, Portsmouth. The warrior pot is just a short-
>hand
>way of referring to the vessel as described in my last e-mail - the Lower Nene
>Colour Coat jar with a painted 'warrior' figure.

Hi Ed,

Interesting use of a "new term" for otherwise well-named Nene Valley CC
wares.  Are you sure this is a "warrior" (say it like Worf in Star Trek)
on the pot?  A hunting scene, perhaps?  In which case, this might more
properly be termed a "hunt cup".  Just a thought.

It'd be interesting to see what you mean.  Can you scan the image and
post it to the shared files section?  (In case you're not familiar with
this, see our eGroups web page - click on "files" and then just follow
the on-screen instructions.  Load it up as a low res (72dpi) .jpg)

By the way - good luck with the Stanwick pottery: I worked on it post-ex
in 1991 together with Rob Perrin, whilst I was in the employ of Fort
Cumberland.  A terrible mess of excavator-washed and miss-marked sherds
(ooops - I shouldn't say that!), as I remember.

Phil Copleston

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This e-mail is intended solely for the above-mentioned recipient
and it may contain confidential or privileged information. If you
have received it in error, please notify us immediately and delete
the e-mail. You must not copy, distribute, disclose or take any
action in reliance on it.

English Heritage
Telephone 020 7973 3000
Facsimile 020 7973 3001
_________________________________________________________________

Ed McSloy <Ed.McSloy@...> writes
>Oh dear - I only use the term 'warrior pot' as a rather romantic short-hand.

Moral - never use "romantic short hand"!!

>narrow necked jar with painted (not barbotine) decoration showing a
>figure with sword, shield, and helmet'.
<snip>
>this vessel seems to belong to a different tradition to the
>barbotine decorated LNVCC beaker types. Firstly it's not a beaker, secondly the
>decoration is 'flat' - applied with a finger or brush rather than 'trailed'
like
>a slip and thirdly it seems to be rather later - almost certainly after c.275
>AD. The subject matter has some affinities with the earlier tradition - the
>figure may represent a gladiator or Mars-like deity but that's really as far as
>it goes

Your description does indeed suggest a later date for this vessel, as
NVCC tends to go from barbotine by itself (at the start, in the second
century), to barbotine with paint applied over (sometime in the middle
years!), to paint to pot surface only, over time.  Paint only is common
in the fourth century, I seem to remember.  And the military style would
confirm this, perhaps.

Peterborough museum might help.  They have large collections of this
stuff.  If you can, have a rummage in their basement, if you haven't
already done so (ask VERY nicely).  I bet you'll find much of interest
there.

When I worked in Cambridgeshire, I was privileged to have access to
their basement and reserved collections - stuff that has been there
untouched (and unrecorded, as far as I could see) since the Waternewton
and other kilns were originally excavated.  Some of the best and most
complete examples seem to have come from river mud along the banks of
the Nene in the last century.  The available published literature (not
much, no "corpus") is OK, but nothing can substitute for seeing,
handling, touching, feeling, and contemplating this lot.

I spent some time down there with my portable studio taking decent
colour transparencies of whole pots, groups of pots, broken pots,
decoration detail and, with a macro lens, fabric sections.  Just the
sort of exercise some "experts" poo-poo, but I learnt more about NV
wares during those visits than any amount of reading could substitute
for.  Get to it!

>As they say a picture paints a 1000 words so I'll attempt to post an image or
>the warrior - sorry LNVCC jar with painted ..etc in the shared files.

I'll look forward to it (and debate).  Sorry for the rant.

Phil Copleston

Ed's 'warrior' pot looks great!

You can view it at:

http://www.egroups.com/files/arch-pot/Stanpot.jpg

(sorry if you've already had a notification of this - I'm not sure
exactly who gets what messages on this thing yet!)

Sue
arch-pot moderator.

Sue <sma@...> writes
>Ed's 'warrior' pot looks great!
>You can view it at:
>http://www.egroups.com/files/arch-pot/Stanpot.jpg

Yep, I'll second that.  Thanks for posting this so quickly, Ed.  I'm
about to go home to eat, so I'll have a proper look at it tomorrow.

Any one else like to comment??

Phil Copleston

Sue's message sent me at once to the site of the 'warrior pot' illustration.
I found it magnificent.  May I enquire who was the patient person who put
the pieces together?

Dear all,

I was wondering whether anyone on this list could recommend good sources
for looking at mid to late c15th pottery, whether in the form of general
reading (although somewhat more than 'coffee table' books)  or specific
excavation reports, it doesn't matter provided there is reasonable detail.

I consistently seem to be faced with books which talk about either
'medieval' in the most general sense, and then suddenly we're into 'Tudor'
pottery.
Even when discussing 'medieval' the pots those illustrated are almost
invariably c14th (even the Museum of London's series stops c.1450!) which
doesn't really tie down the styles closely enough to time or locale for
what I'm interested in.

Any help would be most gratefully received.

Yours sincerely
Dave Key

dave:

the best starting point as any is McCarthy and Brooks' "Medieval Pottery in
Britain, AD900-1600' (LUP).  It's a little bit out of date now, but gives
good, basic coverage to the whole of the country within the date range of
the title, got 1000's of pot drawings and discusses pot-related issues
beyond simply form and date.  I think it's out of print now, but those nice
people at Oxbow may have a copy or two floating around, or try some of the
second-hand bookshop sites.

regards

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: dave_key@... <dave_key@...>
To: arch-pot@egroups.com <arch-pot@egroups.com>
Date: 05 July 2000 09:44
Subject: [arch-pot] C15th Pottery


>
>
>Dear all,
>
>I was wondering whether anyone on this list could recommend good sources
>for looking at mid to late c15th pottery, whether in the form of general
>reading (although somewhat more than 'coffee table' books)  or specific
>excavation reports, it doesn't matter provided there is reasonable detail.
>
>I consistently seem to be faced with books which talk about either
>'medieval' in the most general sense, and then suddenly we're into 'Tudor'
>pottery.
>Even when discussing 'medieval' the pots those illustrated are almost
>invariably c14th (even the Museum of London's series stops c.1450!) which
>doesn't really tie down the styles closely enough to time or locale for
>what I'm interested in.
>
>Any help would be most gratefully received.
>
>Yours sincerely
>Dave Key
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>arch-pot-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>

Dear Dave,

You could also try Castle Bookshop ­ they have a website at:
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/square/fe63

and Heritage Books, whose website is at:
http://www.heritageweb.com/system/index.html

Yours ever

Diana C. Briscoe
Archive of Anglo-Saxon Pottery Stamps
124 Cholmley Gardens
Fortune Green Road
London NW6 1AA

Tel: +44­(0)20 7794­6300
Fax: +44­(0)20 7431­1612
E-mail: ASArchive@...

> From: "Paul Blnkhorn" <paul@...>
> Reply-To: arch-pot@egroups.com
> Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 11:14:34 +0100
> To: <arch-pot@egroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [arch-pot] C15th Pottery
>
> dave:
>
> the best starting point as any is McCarthy and Brooks' "Medieval Pottery in
> Britain, AD900-1600' (LUP).  It's a little bit out of date now, but gives
> good, basic coverage to the whole of the country within the date range of
> the title, got 1000's of pot drawings and discusses pot-related issues
> beyond simply form and date.  I think it's out of print now, but those nice
> people at Oxbow may have a copy or two floating around, or try some of the
> second-hand bookshop sites.
>
> regards
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dave_key@... <dave_key@...>
> To: arch-pot@egroups.com <arch-pot@egroups.com>
> Date: 05 July 2000 09:44
> Subject: [arch-pot] C15th Pottery
>
>
>>
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I was wondering whether anyone on this list could recommend good sources
>> for looking at mid to late c15th pottery, whether in the form of general
>> reading (although somewhat more than 'coffee table' books)  or specific
>> excavation reports, it doesn't matter provided there is reasonable detail.
>>
>> I consistently seem to be faced with books which talk about either
>> 'medieval' in the most general sense, and then suddenly we're into 'Tudor'
>> pottery.
>> Even when discussing 'medieval' the pots those illustrated are almost
>> invariably c14th (even the Museum of London's series stops c.1450!) which
>> doesn't really tie down the styles closely enough to time or locale for
>> what I'm interested in.
>>
>> Any help would be most gratefully received.
>>
>> Yours sincerely
>> Dave Key
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Free, Unlimited Calls Anywhere!
>> Visit Firetalk.com - click below.
>> http://click.egroups.com/1/5479/1/_/_/_/962786648/
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> arch-pot-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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> http://click.egroups.com/1/6137/1/_/_/_/962792854/
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Dear Dave,

I was responsible for setting up the MoL pottery publications and the 15th
century was always a big problem in the City. Lyn Blackmore, my successor,
may have seen more 15th-century material since I left, especially since
the remit of MOLAS is a lot wider than the old DUA was.

However, I suspect part of our problem was that:

a) the city waterfront ceased to expand southwards over the Thames
foreshore in the early 15th century.

b) the early 15th-century wares - basically Surrey whitewares with a few
sparsely-glazed redwares - continued in use into the mid to late 15th
century.

c) we toyed with the idea of the typical early 16th-century wares having
an earlier origin but it seemed to be very difficult to demonstrate this
in London since many of the groups were associated with stoneware and
tin-glazed imports whose dating seemed to be secure (see the Van Beuningen
catalogue for the details of these).

I've just been pondering about the date of a couple of late 15th/early
16th-century assemblages from Southampton which Bob Thompson and Duncan
Brown are publishing and there too it is remarkably difficult to find
anything that is reliably dated to the 15th century.

Sandal Castle, in Yorkshire, has some late 15th century deposits
apparently associated with a renovation of the castle in the reign of
Richard III. Are these too late for you?


On Wed, 5 Jul 2000 dave_key@... wrote:

>
>
>Dear all,
>
>I was wondering whether anyone on this list could recommend good sources
>for looking at mid to late c15th pottery, whether in the form of general
>reading (although somewhat more than 'coffee table' books)  or specific
>excavation reports, it doesn't matter provided there is reasonable detail.
>
>I consistently seem to be faced with books which talk about either
>'medieval' in the most general sense, and then suddenly we're into 'Tudor'
>pottery.
>Even when discussing 'medieval' the pots those illustrated are almost
>invariably c14th (even the Museum of London's series stops c.1450!) which
>doesn't really tie down the styles closely enough to time or locale for
>what I'm interested in.
>
>Any help would be most gratefully received.
>
>Yours sincerely
>Dave Key
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Free, Unlimited Calls Anywhere!
>Visit Firetalk.com - click below.
>http://click.egroups.com/1/5479/1/_/_/_/962786648/
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>arch-pot-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>

Cheers,

Alan

Alan Vince, Archaeological Consultant: digital publication, ceramic
analysis, report writing. http://www.postex.demon.co.uk/index.html
Phone/answerphone: 01522 589992 (Office), 0976 763251 (Mobile)

With regard to Mediaeval Pottery in Britain I have been to Heritage Books new
premises at Southminster and am told there is a waiting list for this book.
Oxbow tell me that it is not available from their stock.

Michael de Bootman, of HB, will be at the forthcoming Medieval Conference at
Leeds  and will have many books and off-prints available about this period


Bernard Barr

Can anyone suggest books that aid in the identification of the fabric of the
pottery? origin of clay etc.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions

Peter Alexander-Fitzgerald
01570 481 263

> -----Original Message-----
> From: B22443054@... [mailto:B22443054@...]
> Sent: 07 July 2000 10:19
> To: arch-pot@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [arch-pot] C15th Pottery and Heritage Archaeological Books
>
>
>

Dear Peter

From my limited experience this is a complex and fascinating subject.

For Roman pottery you must start with The National Roman Fabric Reference
Collection by Roberta Tomber and John Dore (Museum of London 1998). This is a
magnificent volume with over 180 colour photographs of the various fabrics.
There is nothing better you can do than to physically handle collections of
your local pottery of whatever period interests you.

Clay sources are usually found adjacent or close to Roman kiln sites and
generally this may be true of all pottery production sites. However clay may
be fetched from some distance to the site where it is made into pottery and
fired; this is particularly true where a special clay is required for a final
slip of a different colour (iron free clay for a cream or white slip over an
iron rich clay that oxidises red) during firing or a finer finish (samian).
For various reasons most clays require amendments before being used for
pottery production such adding a mineral (sand, etc.) or organic material
(straw, grass, etc). Identifying these helps to make the study of pottery
endlessly interesting.

I hope this is of some use and interest

Bernard Barr

Did I hear that The Roman pottery Industry of the Oxford Region by
C J Young (BAR 43, 1977) was being reprinted?

Thanks for the book info. The problem we have hear in west Wales is
  1) A shortage of known kiln sites
  2)        ditto        clay
  3) Poor road systems
  The question that came up not long ago was Is it the clay or the pot that
was imported along with the potter. That's part of the problem we are still
trying to work out the right questions

Peter Alexander-Fitzgerald
01570 481 263

> -----Original Message-----
> From: B22443054@... [mailto:B22443054@...]
> Sent: 10 July 2000 11:43
> To: arch-pot@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [arch-pot] Pottery Fabrics
>
>
>
> Dear Peter
>
> From my limited experience this is a complex and fascinating subject.
>
> For Roman pottery you must start with The National Roman Fabric Reference
> Collection by Roberta Tomber and John Dore (Museum of London
> 1998). This is a
> magnificent volume with over 180 colour photographs of the
> various fabrics.
> There is nothing better you can do than to physically handle
> collections of
> your local pottery of whatever period interests you.
>
> Clay sources are usually found adjacent or close to Roman kiln sites and
> generally this may be true of all pottery production sites.
> However clay may
> be fetched from some distance to the site where it is made into
> pottery and
> fired; this is particularly true where a special clay is required
> for a final
> slip of a different colour (iron free clay for a cream or white
> slip over an
> iron rich clay that oxidises red) during firing or a finer finish
> (samian).
> For various reasons most clays require amendments before being used for
> pottery production such adding a mineral (sand, etc.) or organic material
> (straw, grass, etc). Identifying these helps to make the study of pottery
> endlessly interesting.
>
> I hope this is of some use and interest
>
> Bernard Barr
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.
> Remember the good 'ol days
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>
>

Dear Cathy,

A new edition is advertised in the latest Oxbow Book News (Summer 2000). The
new edition includes 'a bibliography of more recent publications on the
Oxford industry and a review of developments in our knowledge over this
period (by Paul Booth and Chris Young respectively)'. Reprinted in August
2000, it costs £42 (Oxbow price £38).

Best wishes

Alison Jones
Chester Archaeology

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cathy Tester [SMTP:cathy.tester@...]
> Sent: 11 July 2000 10:09
> To: arch-pot@egroups.com
> Subject: [arch-pot] Oxford wares (Roman)
>
>
> Did I hear that The Roman pottery Industry of the Oxford Region by
> C J Young (BAR 43, 1977) was being reprinted?
>
>
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Dear Peter,

For pottery from West Wales I can recommend you look at
the volumes on Medieval and Later Pottery in Wales. The volume
by Papazian & Campbell 'Medieval Pottery and Roof Tile
in Wales AD 1100-1600' is very useful. For back copies I
suggest you contact Steve Sell at Glamorgan Gwent Archaeological
Trust.

Roman pottery production in the region (if any) is a little more
problematical!.

Dee Brennan

Thank you Dee
I will have to drop in and see you if you can spare the time I am only in
Llanybydder and need to drop in to the Arc dep from time to time

Peter Alexander-Fitzgerald
01570 481 263

> -----Original Message-----
> From: d.brennan@... [mailto:d.brennan@...]
> Sent: 11 July 2000 14:27
> To: arch-pot@egroups.com
> Subject: RE: [arch-pot] Pottery Fabrics
>
>
> Dear Peter,
>
> For pottery from West Wales I can recommend you look at
> the volumes on Medieval and Later Pottery in Wales. The volume
> by Papazian & Campbell 'Medieval Pottery and Roof Tile
> in Wales AD 1100-1600' is very useful. For back copies I
> suggest you contact Steve Sell at Glamorgan Gwent Archaeological
> Trust.
>
> Roman pottery production in the region (if any) is a little more
> problematical!.
>
> Dee Brennan
>
>
>
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Dear Peter

As always for pottery production even on a small scale you require
1) suitable clay
2) fuel and water
3) A potter
4) A market

These factors are something of which you are probably fully aware. Have you
tried someone at a local university department who knows the geology of the
area(s) you are interested in and who might consult any published geological
maps with you? In my own case thinking I would short circuit the location of
kilns I acquired the local geological maps only to find almost any field for
miles around would have provided clay suitable for potting.

If you would like to contact me privately at b22443054@... or even at
01992-761515 I would happily discuss the problems. There is little point in
boring knowledgeable people on this list with my opinions coming as they do
from an elderly explosion of intestinal gases,

Bernard Barr

Dear Peter,
The chances are that what you had were itinerant potters who had a yearly or
bi-yearly route. You can only pot in the summer months because it is too
damp in late autumn and winter for the pots to dry out enough to fire. They
almost certainly burned their pots in bonfires, as people are still doing in
Africa to this day and producing very large and high-grade pots.

The regular routes were necessary because you can't just dig some clay out
of the ground and pot with it straight away; it has to be left exposed to
weather. Therefore, if you had a regular route, you could use the clay you
had prepared the previous year, and prepare a new batch for the next season.

Clay is extremely heavy and no-one would transport it long distances unless
they had a very compelling reason, such as no suitable material in the
region. You would need a large pony/mule/porter train to transport enough
clay to supply a whole village with pots for a year. It makes much more
sense to go to your material than to take it with you.

It is perfectly possible that potters did bring sample stock and some
special items for sale with them, as this could be transported on 2 or 3
ponies without too much difficulty. There probably was trade in pots within
a local area, but I have grave doubts about long-distance trade, except
where a marriage or a treaty was involved and pots were sent containing
gifts or valuables.

The Lackford-Illington Anglo-Saxon pottery workshop in East Anglia seems to
have traded and exported within an area of around 25 miles from base
(although there are outliers considerably further afield). I had better not
pontificate about fabrics here as I don't know whether pots from these sites
have been thin-sectioned ­ I don't think so ­ but I'm not aware of fabrics
proving trade from any AS site. But, if AS potters did travel, then they
certainly took a selection of dies (implements used to make the stamps) with
them and used them to individualise specific pots.

I should, in honesty, say that there is no real evidence one way or another
that the above scenario was what happened, but it is the most plausible
explanation for what the pottery from assorted sites appears to indicate.
Short of a time-machine, we will never know.

Yours ever

Diana C. Briscoe
Archive of Anglo-Saxon Pottery Stamps
124 Cholmley Gardens
Fortune Green Road
London NW6 1AA

Tel: +44­(0)20 7794­6300
Fax: +44­(0)20 7431­1612
E-mail: ASArchive@...

> From: "Peter Alexander-Fitzgerald" <peter@...>
> Reply-To: arch-pot@egroups.com
> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:32:32 +0100
> To: <arch-pot@egroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [arch-pot]  Pottery Fabrics
>
> Thanks for the book info. The problem we have hear in west Wales is
> 1) A shortage of known kiln sites
> 2)        ditto        clay
> 3) Poor road systems
> The question that came up not long ago was Is it the clay or the pot that
> was imported along with the potter. That's part of the problem we are still
> trying to work out the right questions
>
> Peter Alexander-Fitzgerald
> 01570 481 263
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: B22443054@... [mailto:B22443054@...]
>> Sent: 10 July 2000 11:43
>> To: arch-pot@egroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [arch-pot] Pottery Fabrics
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Peter
>>
>> From my limited experience this is a complex and fascinating subject.
>>
>> For Roman pottery you must start with The National Roman Fabric Reference
>> Collection by Roberta Tomber and John Dore (Museum of London
>> 1998). This is a
>> magnificent volume with over 180 colour photographs of the
>> various fabrics.
>> There is nothing better you can do than to physically handle
>> collections of
>> your local pottery of whatever period interests you.
>>
>> Clay sources are usually found adjacent or close to Roman kiln sites and
>> generally this may be true of all pottery production sites.
>> However clay may
>> be fetched from some distance to the site where it is made into
>> pottery and
>> fired; this is particularly true where a special clay is required
>> for a final
>> slip of a different colour (iron free clay for a cream or white
>> slip over an
>> iron rich clay that oxidises red) during firing or a finer finish
>> (samian).
>> For various reasons most clays require amendments before being used for
>> pottery production such adding a mineral (sand, etc.) or organic material
>> (straw, grass, etc). Identifying these helps to make the study of pottery
>> endlessly interesting.
>>
>> I hope this is of some use and interest
>>
>> Bernard Barr
>>
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>>
>>
>
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Can anyone tell me of a web page which lists the ceramic sequence of
the U.K. up to the Roman invasion, preferably with pics of the
artefacts. Many thanks