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Is there gain in knowledge or loss of knowledge?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #100 of 244 |
Re: [archivists] Is there gain in knowledge or loss of knowledge?


Brewster Kahle wrote:

>[on a recent trip to India, Dr Om Vikas from the Ministry of Information gave a
presentation and one of the slides really hit me hard. I have reproduced it
here, with permission. ... ]
>
>
>Is there gain in knowledge or loss of knowledge?
>
>* From an estimated 10,000 world languages in 1900, about 6,700 languages
survived in 2000. Two percent of the world's languages are becoming extinct
every year.
>
So? Perhaps we're more aware of the loss now, but this has always
happened. If there's no-one around to speak a language, and there are no
written records in that language, then its gone.

>* There is worldwide, un quantifiable erosion of cultural participation,
knowledge and innovation.
>
No there isn't. Or at least, not in my neighborhood. This sort of
assertion is worthless without eveidence (i.e. quantifiable). It's just
moral vanity.

>* With the loss of language, we lose art and ideas, scientific information and
technological innovation capacity.
>
Maybe. But I see no diminution in the output of those things, so I'm
inclined to disagree. Also, if we're heading towards unity in language,
doesn't that foster the exchange of ideas? Is there anything which can
be expressed in one language but not in another? (Some recent
translations of the Tao te Ching suggest that _anything_ can be
expressed in English, given a good translator.)

>* World-level literacy is improving. More people can read than ever before, but
fewer people create stories.
>
Hmmm. I direct you to the Fiction department of Borders. Not everyone
can create stories, and the story-teller has always held a special place
in any society. viz. Borders again.

>* There is a tendency from being creators to consumers at the time when
technology could have amplified our creative capacities.
>
I have friends -- non-Geek -- who spend their spare time creating music
and messing with images on their home computers. But not everyone is
artistic. And what does this have to do with language anyway?

>* UNESCO study (1999) of 65 languages: 49 languages (75%) had experienced real
decline in the number of works translated from these languages to other
languages.
>
>* The proportion for English arose from 43 percent in 1980 to over 57 percent
in 1994.
>
>* The share held by top four translated languages (English, Spanish, French and
German) rose from 65 percent in 1980 to 81 percent in 1994.
>
Yes, but what does this mean? Are publishers less willing to publish
translations? Are more authors writing in English? Is that because
that's where the big market lies? Statistics can obscure as well as
enlighten.

>* According to a UNESCO study involving the world's 140 most published authors:
90 out of 140 were English writers in 1994 compared to 64 out of 140 in 1980.
>
>* There is a collapse in authorship, translation and quality in other
languages.
>
OK, you got me worried now. But see my comment aboive re. markets. Are
publishers driving this? I believe also that authors sometimes have to
pay translators to do the translation. Could be a number of factors here.


Cheers!

Steve

--

Stephen Thomas,
Senior Systems Analyst,
University of Adelaide Library
UNIVERSITY OF ADELAIDE SA 5005
AUSTRALIA
Tel: +61 8 8303 5190 Fax: +61 8 8303 4369
Email: stephen.thomas@...
URL: http://www.library.adelaide.edu.au/~sthomas/






Thu Feb 20, 2003 4:31 am

stephen.thomas@...
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Message #100 of 244 |
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[on a recent trip to India, Dr Om Vikas from the Ministry of Information gave a presentation and one of the slides really hit me hard. I have reproduced it...
Brewster Kahle
brewster...
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Feb 19, 2003
9:47 pm

... At the risk of sassing my betters, I'd say that you need to get out more, Brewster. :-) This is an old idea and a common critique of globalism and...
Prentiss Riddle
riddle@...
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Feb 20, 2003
1:54 am

Hi Brewster -- Thanks for bringing this to the list's attention. I've been worried for quite some time about the erosion of both language diversity and of...
Chris Thorman
christhorman
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Feb 20, 2003
2:19 am

All the memories of the lives of my ancestors are recorded in the archetypes of the dreams in my mind. I write down as many of these patterns of human action...
astarius
astarius@...
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Feb 20, 2003
7:02 pm

... So? Perhaps we're more aware of the loss now, but this has always happened. If there's no-one around to speak a language, and there are no written records...
Steve Thomas
stephen.thomas@...
Send Email
Feb 20, 2003
7:03 pm

Hi All. First reply to this group. Coming from an IT background, rather than a "curator". Without being a an academic type since leaving University, I had...
[POPLAR IT] Paul Tegg...
pteggart@...
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Feb 20, 2003
7:04 pm

Well, this is very intersting - although I wonder if there is really proof of all the statements, for instance, items number 2, 4, and 5, and I also wonder if...
Karl-Erik Tallmo
ketallmo
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Feb 20, 2003
7:04 pm

Brad Sounds like you have a slow connection to the internet because all the images did not have enough time to load to show that there is a parchment behind...
Simon Seamount
Astarius@...
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Feb 24, 2003
12:48 pm

I don't necessarily agree with Vikas when he says we lose art and ideas along with the loss of language. I agree that art and ideas are not static. They change...
News Library
library@...
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Feb 24, 2003
12:48 pm

... I think of knowledge more as a vehicle than a destination, more as CPU cycles than as bits stored on a disk. Today, very few drivers know how an engine...
Lars Aronsson
lars_aronsson
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Apr 10, 2003
5:20 am

... I have long been concerned with this topic, my own visual aid is a triangle or pyramid structure as it is often used to portray the structure of Fortune...
Michael Hart
hart@...
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Apr 10, 2003
4:37 pm
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