Hello all...I'm new to this forum...My name is Mabel =)
Nice to meet you all...

Would just like to share some interesting links...

If you guys didn't know there is a video all over the web (different
video sites like youtube googlevideo metacafe dailymotion bliptv
etc..) of some pretty convincing pics of the astrofaces project
Here's the one from youtube (the only one i found with a rating and/or
comments! so I suggest if you want to do either one please do it on
this youtube one..youtube is the site ppl will see most)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQdmRKekUjM&feature=related

Also, I found this other site recently which does something very
similar to astrofaces.......actually, it doesn't collect people's
birth data, but rather merely compiles and categorizes various
celebrities' pictures based on their data. It is very interesting,
and, to tell you the truth, I believe astrofaces is actually missing
something without a visitor to it (especially a skeptic!) having seen
this site as well. The reason in my opinion is because this website
I'm about to give is so convincing.....! But, actually, more important
than tha, it provides an image in your head of what each sun sign
pretty much is supposed to look like, regardless of their moon or
asc....The same applies to the moon sign, regardless of the sun or asc
signs. It is also incredible how the moon and asc pretty much jsut add
a different hue to the spectrum of the zodiac personalities that make
up that person and their appearance. It really is quite incredible and
I urge anyone to look at that site and leave it with a picture in
their mind of how the moon and ascendants affect the sun sign
appearance and how they affect each other's appearance, too. Then,
with this information, when you go to astrofaces you will be able to
see the clear morphing and attributes in a person's face that says,
"Wow, yeah, they really do have a pisces moon, you can tell." Or "Wow!
This person definitely has a taurus ascendant." and I was once in
doubt whether I had a libra or scorpio ascendant but now I went to
astrofaces and thought "Noo I definitely do not have the libra
ascendant..it looks so much more 'detached' and calm and posied than
my lively intense and slightly more 'magnetic' scorpio ascendant.
Incredible! I can easily relate with the appearance attributes of my
sun moon asc row! Just beautiful :)"

My point is that this site is really helpful in seeing the "truth"
behind the "behind the scenes" workings of how each of the three major
zodiac sign positions (sun moon asc) clearly contributes to a person's
appearance....just their smile...or the intensity of their eyes, is a
mere give-away! It is also even helpful in identifying the unkown
ascendants very quickly..I've been able to pinpoint it myself many
times now because of this site! It is so clear about the specific
attributes of each ascendant. IT's all thanks to this wonderful site..
Check it out

http://www.librarising.com/astrology/


These are some of my interesting findings/observations from this
site..(My findings are said as part of a "question" in yahoo answers)
http://tinyurl.com/yvsxnz

I was hoping people would join in and share some cool observations
(there on yahoo answers) with me......but No Luck!
I would love to hear anything you might have to add =)
Thanks.

-A cancer..

I would have to agree with some of the posts here regarding changing this format
to reflect
the days on which people are born. From my research in this area the day of the
Sun Sign
play just as much a part of process as the rising. Each degree of the Sun in a
sign reflects a
porportional energy which can also be broken into thirds (decans) for a better
facial
classification. According to Eastern astrology, the years also play a general
role in this as
well. I have monitored your site for some time and feel it has potential but
needs refinement
and upkeep.

Russell Ohlhaussen-
Project BlueShift

Wow, two posts in a single day! Great!

I don't understand well the theory of reverse engineering, sorry. What
use is for research to get pictures of people who looks like this or
that if you don't have their birth data? You could always justify such
coincidences to "genetic randomness" or whatever - mere "coincidences",
right? Of course we know (or we think we know) that there's more to that
than mere coincidence, some other hidden factors, namely: Astrology. But
unless we have the data we can't research the pics.

Btw, there are on the market some face average morphing software. I do
not own any of them but I have seen anthropologists produce "average
composites" of regional or ethnical groups of people with them. We could
potentially use that in astro-facial research too, in order to fuse the
faces of astrologically related people to produce basic "archetypal"
composite faces maybe.

Regards,
Luis.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Indeed, genetics specially, is a factor that can't be ignored. Though
often people resemble each other in spite of genetic/racial differences,
quite strikingly some times, btw. But yes, it would be important to be
able to discern what is genetics and what is not (presumably astrology),
but it's quite slippery.

Regards,
Luis.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'll repeat my suggestion from a year ago.  Reverse engineer the
whole astroface process by letting the photos for 365 sets of days
tell the influence of the ascendant and moon.  Example - when ten or
twenty Aquarian photos have been collected for February 6 (over the
next five to 50 years), your mental composite of the February 6
astroface should be recognizable but not yet complete enough for an
idealist.

Mail Moshe as many sun sign photo with birth days as you can, include
Ascendant and Moon if possible.  Speaking from experience, Moshe does
personal favors for those who help him.  If one always carried a
camera, one could say "Hey, you look like a twin of my friend.  Can I
take your picture?  I won't ask for any personal information but my
friend won't believe she has an identical twin."  You will likely
find that both have the same sun sign.

It is easy to avoid having a stranger fear that you are coming on to
them.  When my wife is beside me, I often guess strangers' sun signs
and have a very high rate for being correct.  My wife has even a
higher rate than I if she can talk to the subject for a while.

I've never owned a camera, can I count on somebody to try out my
suggestion and report back to astrofaces with your camera stories ??
I'd love to hear from you.

... John(godhas4legs)Gilbert
  :: godhas4legs@... - Toronto, 416-481-5668 (usually away
all summer and warm weekends at 613-476-4505)

I think alot goes to facial features then just the Sun, Moon, and
Rising Sign. Genes, Rising Sign, and Health all plays a part and
shouldn't be ignored. We should also concider Venus and Her influence
in the natal chart. For example: Venus in Taurus may have football
features. Libra rising may have symetrical features. And Solar Leos may
have strong shiny hair. But it meens nothing if they born of different
nationalities, or do drugs, drink too much or have accidents that
distort their features. Astrology goes deeper then the skin.

sorry about the junk mail recently, letters from that source will be
reviewed before posting.

Hi John,

Nice to hear from you again!

I think it's a great idea. Anyone who is interested could certainly help out
that
way. I do give out the publicity cards in public sometimes when I see
someone with an astrological symbol on their T-shirt, or an
astrological  necklace, etc, and place the publicity stickers on
bulletin boards.

Yes, celebrities usually have had some plastic surgery and that disqualifies
them from a proper analysis of resemblance. Also we don't have their permission
to include them in the research project.

The Abstract mentions the ruler of the ascendant: Many respondents neglect to
send complete birthdate  information, and only send Sun Moon and Ascendant.
Perhaps eventually when many, many photos are present, we can enable sorting the
photos by the SMA and the Asc Ruler as well. There is no doubt that it would be
even more interesting, as well as sorting by Mercury and Venus and by the house
positions of the Sun and Moon.

All the best,
Moshe




----- Original Message ----
From: Anarchist University <johngilbertpttraverse@...>
To: astrofaces@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 6:05:10 PM
Subject: [astrofaces] Re: how to get more facial matches, birth data













             Hey,

It's me again (John Gilbert).  I forgot to complete my thoughts.

The idea would be to attack the problem of which factors determine

facial appearance empiracally.  In addition to handling the

astrofaces project on it's present course, maybe the project could be

speeded up by working from the opposite direction.  When the data

from hundreds of doubles (twin-like strangers), the factors astrol

factors that produced the photo similarities should begin to jump out

and bite you with the empirical proof.

====



--- In astrofaces@yahoogro ups.com, "Anarchist University"

<johngilbertpttrave rse@...> wrote:

>

> I think that Moishe said that movie star data was not accurate.

> ====

> Let me change the subject.  A year? ago I didn't express myself

> clearly.  I'll try again with a WHAT IF.  What if people who carry

> cameras with them a lot were to approach a stranger whose facial

> appearance was amazingly similar to a non-stranger (friend).  Then

the

> camera owner explains the astroface project to the stranger to

break

> the ice.  One copy is given to the stranger along with contact

> information for his/her double and astrofaces information.  The

camera

> bug sends the particulars to Moishe for examination.  People are

very

> curious about having a near-double.

>

> Hey readers:

> Weigh in on my idea.  Do you have an opinion about how the idea

could

> be enhanced ?

> Cheers,

> John Gilbert - (godhas4legs@ gmail.com) (416)4815668 - Toronto

> --- In astrofaces@yahoogro ups.com, "J Skye" <js_705@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I really like the Astrofaces website. But I think it would be a

lot

> > better if you included the sign of the ascendant ruler, in

addition

> to

> > the sun-moon-Asc. The sign of the ascendant ruler is an important

> > factor in appearance.

> >

> > I also wish you would include celebrity faces, it would add a lot

of

> > faces to the database. There is no reason not to include them.

> >

> > Please consider my suggestions.

> > J Skye

> >

>














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________________________________________________________________________________\
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Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey,
It's me again (John Gilbert).  I forgot to complete my thoughts.
The idea would be to attack the problem of which factors determine
facial appearance empiracally.  In addition to handling the
astrofaces project on it's present course, maybe the project could be
speeded up by working from the opposite direction.  When the data
from hundreds of doubles (twin-like strangers), the factors astrol
factors that produced the photo similarities should begin to jump out
and bite you with the empirical proof.
====

--- In astrofaces@yahoogroups.com, "Anarchist University"
<johngilbertpttraverse@...> wrote:
>
> I think that Moishe said that movie star data was not accurate.
> ====
> Let me change the subject.  A year? ago I didn't express myself
> clearly.  I'll try again with a WHAT IF.  What if people who carry
> cameras with them a lot were to approach a stranger whose facial
> appearance was amazingly similar to a non-stranger (friend).  Then
the
> camera owner explains the astroface project to the stranger to
break
> the ice.  One copy is given to the stranger along with contact
> information for his/her double and astrofaces information.  The
camera
> bug sends the particulars to Moishe for examination.  People are
very
> curious about having a near-double.
>
> Hey readers:
> Weigh in on my idea.  Do you have an opinion about how the idea
could
> be enhanced ?
> Cheers,
> John Gilbert - (godhas4legs@ gmail.com) (416)4815668 - Toronto
> --- In astrofaces@yahoogroups.com, "J Skye" <js_705@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I really like the Astrofaces website. But I think it would be a
lot
> > better if you included the sign of the ascendant ruler, in
addition
> to
> > the sun-moon-Asc. The sign of the ascendant ruler is an important
> > factor in appearance.
> >
> > I also wish you would include celebrity faces, it would add a lot
of
> > faces to the database. There is no reason not to include them.
> >
> > Please consider my suggestions.
> > J Skye
> >
>

I think that Moishe said that movie star data was not accurate.
====
Let me change the subject.  A year? ago I didn't express myself
clearly.  I'll try again with a WHAT IF.  What if people who carry
cameras with them a lot were to approach a stranger whose facial
appearance was amazingly similar to a non-stranger (friend).  Then the
camera owner explains the astroface project to the stranger to break
the ice.  One copy is given to the stranger along with contact
information for his/her double and astrofaces information.  The camera
bug sends the particulars to Moishe for examination.  People are very
curious about having a near-double.

Hey readers:
Weigh in on my idea.  Do you have an opinion about how the idea could
be enhanced ?
Cheers,
John Gilbert - (godhas4legs@ gmail.com) (416)4815668 - Toronto
--- In astrofaces@yahoogroups.com, "J Skye" <js_705@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I really like the Astrofaces website. But I think it would be a lot
> better if you included the sign of the ascendant ruler, in addition
to
> the sun-moon-Asc. The sign of the ascendant ruler is an important
> factor in appearance.
>
> I also wish you would include celebrity faces, it would add a lot of
> faces to the database. There is no reason not to include them.
>
> Please consider my suggestions.
> J Skye
>

Hi,

I really like the Astrofaces website. But I think it would be a lot
better if you included the sign of the ascendant ruler, in addition to
the sun-moon-Asc. The sign of the ascendant ruler is an important
factor in appearance.

I also wish you would include celebrity faces, it would add a lot of
faces to the database. There is no reason not to include them.

Please consider my suggestions.
J Skye

--- In astrofaces@yahoogroups.com, therese hamilton <eastwest@...> wrote:
>(...) I do need to clear up your understanding
> of the sidereal zodiac (...)

I know all that (more or less).

Let me explain you something: I used to be very skeptic and
rationalist (I have 5 planets in Virgo and Saturn prominent, you know)
but eventually, when I started sutdying Astrology out of curiosity,
what woke up my senses and shattered my materialistic convictions was
the easiests of all correlations: Sun signs with appearence.

It may be a coincidence but one of those coincidences that are not
likely. I belong to a rather large family with a sufficient sample of
people of several signs, specialy Taurus and Gemini (I'm talking Sun
sign, of course). I realized that they are extremely simmilar by Sun
sign: my Taurean father and brother are both quite corpulent, they
have the same technical career and they are both pretty much pragmatic
and rationalist; my Gemini mother, sister and brother are all small,
comparatively slim and have typical Mercurian faces with their rather
triangular chins. They are also more variegated (colorful) and less
stubborn than the Taurean ones - but less focused too in most cases.
The other relatives, including myself (Leo-Cancer-Aries, you can see
an old pic of me in the Astrofaces catalog, the only one with that
combo) all seemed to fit very well. And the more I learned and the
more I knew their charts in detail the better they fitted in.

So, personally, I'm quite convinced that Tropical astrology works and
that the Sun sign is extremely relevant. This doesn't mean that the
other placements are irrelevant, particularly the Ascendant (but
considering also aspects to it). The Moon sign is surely relevant too
though my (still shallow) impression is that it's not as much
definitory as the other two but rather shades them and is maybe more
visible in less obvious manners.

These are my preliminary opinions only, of course, I'm open to
whatever research can show.

...

Regarding the validity of Sidereal zodiac, well, I haven't felt the
need to study the matter in depth. So far people born in May 15th and
16th look very Taurean to me in all aspects and not Gemini, and there
are theoretical reasons also to favor the Tropical format - after all
astrology is geocentric.

I have almost never explored the fixed stars. The only time I took a
look at the matter I felt quite disappointed. Not just there are so
many supposedly relevant stars to make the astrologers' work
excessively complicated but specially the traditional meanings of
almost all them are just one: catastrophe.

In my experience most western astrologers just ignore fixed stars. I
don't know if that's the best thing to do but it seems practical at
least.

In any case, the sample of Astrofaces, is classified following the
western zodiac, not the Indian one (which, by the way, is not one but
several). I don't know if the administrator (Moshe) could be able or
willing to do otherwise. As far as I am concerned, I am reasonably
satisfied (though, of course, being able to access the individual
charts  would be best -  but such info is concealed for privacy
reasons). For the purpose of statistical study I think it's quite a
lot, though it would be nice to know which planets aspect strongly the
Asc. in each case.

In any case, the modifications you suggest are not in my hand.

Enjoy,
Luis.

PS - It's Luis, not Louis.

At 08:52 AM 9/11/06 -0000, Therese wrote:

>>There are articles here on the early zodiac and how it related to the
constellations:
http://users.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I forgot to mention that by this evening there will be a link posted on the
Lost Zodiac site to Sari Metsovuori's Ascendant photo gallery. Here is the
link for now:

http://koti.welho.com/jmetsovu/index.html

To keep the photos in tropical perspective, in general any planet in the
first 5 or 6 degrees of a sidereal sign on Sari's site remain in the same
tropical sign, but all other degrees go to the following tropical sign. So
most of the Aries photos would be in tropical Taurus. The navamsas are 3
degree 20 minute divisions of the signs, which are sub-divisions of signs
in the Indian system (Vedic-Jyotish).

At 08:52 AM 9/11/06 -0000, Louis wrote:
>--- In astrofaces@yahoogroups.com, "Therese Hamilton" <eastwest@...>
>wrote:
>
>Myself, I am quite strongly pro-Western astrology (basically because I
>don't believe in constellations, which are just arbitrary products of
>our mind) but I'm open enough to see if other possibilities beyond
>standard western Astrology could fit better with reality...

Hi Louis,

Thanks for responding to my post. I do need to clear up your understanding
of the sidereal zodiac. The sidereal zodiac doesn't line up with the
constellations in the sky, but is made up of 30 degree signs. The only
difference is that the starting point of the zodiac is different, Spica
generally being considered as zero Libra in India. But sidereal astrologers
disagree on the main stars that mark the beginning of signs. This is the
main argument for the tropical zodiac.

As a tropical astrologer you can't give up the constellations since the
first 30 degree sign zodiac was sidereal in Mesopotamia and named after the
constellation star patterns in the sky. Then these names were transferred
to a tropical zodiac beginning with the spring equinox at the time of
Ptolemy. Both zodiacs use the actual positions of fixed stars in reading
horoscopes, that is, the astrologers who use the fixed stars in their work.
Their meanings would be exactly the same in either zodiac.

There are articles here on the early zodiac and how it related to the
constellations:
http://users.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm

>I think that using only Asc. sign will always be misleading because
>the Sun sign seems at least as meaningful if not more.

We don't know without extensive testing. We can't *assume* anything.
Ancient astrology considered the decan on the ascendant to be extremely
important. Suppose appearance changes with the decan? We need to look at
all options. On the Faces site, we really need to be able to arrange the
photos by degree beginning with zero Aries. If the birth year is given for
each photo, interested sidereal astrologers can convert to their zodiac if
they want to see where appearance changes.

This is really *so* important, to have the option of sorting the Asc, Sun
and Moon degrees through the zodiac. Just considering a whole sign is much
too general and simplistic. That resembles newspaper astrology.

>I've already
>suggested in previous mails that planets aspecting the Asc. may be
>very relevant in shaping the appearence of people.

Yes, that's true, and then we have to see if certain details of the
appearance are separate from planetary influence. The Faces project should
be a major project that all astrologers participate in.

Therese

--- In astrofaces@yahoogroups.com, "Therese Hamilton" <eastwest@...>
wrote:

>
> Has the zodiac question been discussed here?
>

Not that I know.

Sadly the group has been rather idle for the most part, what is a pity
in my opinion.

You can probably take a look at former discussions easily, without
effort because this group has yet to become active.

Myself, I am quite strongly pro-Western astrology (basically because I
don't believe in constellations, which are just arbitrary products of
our mind) but I'm open enough to see if other possibilities beyond
standard western Astrology could fit better with reality. Not just the
Indian tradition but who knows? Maybe things as simple as seasons or
as complex as degrees...

I think that using only Asc. sign will always be misleading because
the Sun sign seems at least as meaningful if not more. I've already
suggested in previous mails that planets aspecting the Asc. may be
very relevant in shaping the appearence of people. Example, someone
with Pluto strongly aspecting his/her Asc. will likely display
Scorpio-like appearence, despite not having Scorpio in any of the
three main aspects.

I also think that statistical analysis (correlating appearence traits
with Astrological placements) is about the best we can do by the
moment. See my previous posts for reference.

Enjoy,
Luis.

I keep going on with these informal studies. Now I have decided to
check the frequency of thick eyebrows.

FIRST: Initial hypothesis and methods (this was basically written
before proceeding with the mini-study - the only minor corrections are
technical or stylistic, and not substantial):

Thick eyebrows may be related paticularly to Jovian types and maybe
they are also relevant among people with Libran main placements. I
also expect a variation common among people of Piscean influence which
I call "fish-like" type. It may be considered an hybrid between the
thick type and the "ram" type (apparently associated more frequently
with Martian types) or they can be considere a type of their own,
associated logically with Pisces.

I will spot the thick eyebrows myself subjectively, what I know it's
not the most objective approach - but it is the only one I have
available right now. This obviously reduces the scientific value of
the study but I don't pretend this or other simmilar studies to be the
final word on anything - just a preliminary approach in the hope of
suggesting lines of study for future efforts.

I will use the following samples:
- A random selection of Saggitarius Sun men
- A random selection of Pisces Sun men
- A random selection of Libra Sun men

The random factor will be done by selecting every fifth male pic in
the Astrofaces' album for the respective sign. It is just meant not to
do the study too lenghty and tedious.

The choice of only males is done on my suspicion that women will more
frequently depilate their eyebrows, specially if these are thick
(female hormones may also play a distorting role here). Men can also
depilate their eyebrows, of course, but I expect the distortion to be
less frequent with this choice.

As control groups I will use:
- All triple Taureans and all double Taureans in the Astroface's
album, except those with any Sagg, Pisces or Libra main placement
- All Gemini Sun with Earth in the other two placements
- All Cancer Sun with Earth in the other two placements
- All Capricorn Sun with Earth in the other two placements

These last are just capricious choices, I know. They are just meant
not to have any of the hypothetised sources of thick type eyebrows,
while at the same time having variety. Taureans are specially
emphasized because they share traditional planetary ruler with Librans.

Again I will use only males, for the same reason. If in doubt, I will
treat the pic as if it was female (it won't be considered).

I will try to classifly the eyebrow types in two main cathegories:
"thick" and "not thick". As in some cases I may be in doubt I'll
provide an intermediate cathegory of "somehow thick". Also, I will
classify as "uncertain" (and retire from the sample for statistical
purposes) all eyebrows I can't see with enough clarity.

Finally I will allow another "fish-like" cathegory. That, as I said
above I expect to find specially among Pisceans. "Fish" type eyebrows
(named by myself) are thicker towards the root of the nose and often
curved, somehow like two fishes or dolphins jumping toward the root of
the nose.

Let's go!
_________________

SECOND: The study:

Study groups:

1. Saggitarius Sun men (n=13, n'=n-uncertain=12)
- Thick: 3 (25%)
- Somehow thick: 5 (42%)
- Not thick: 4 (33%)
- "Fish": 0 (0%)
- Uncertain: 1

* Thick+"somehow": 8 (67%)

2. Pisces Sun men (n=15, n'=13)
- Thick: 3 (23%)
- Somehow thick: 0 (0%)
- Not Thick: 9 (69%)
- "Fish": 1 (8%)
- Uncertain: 2

* Thick+"fish": 4 (31%)

3. Libra Sun men (n=17, n'=16)
- Thick: 4 (25%)
- Somehow thick: 2 (13%)
- Not Thick: 10 (63%)
- "Fish": 0 (0%)
- Uncertain: 2

* Thick+"somehow": 6 (38%)

Control groups (as defined above):
C1. Taureans (n=12, n'=11)
- Thick: 0 (0%)
- Somehow thick: 2 (16%)
- Not Thick: 9 (82%)
- "Fish": 0 (0%)
- Uncertain: 1

C2. Geminians (n=3, n'=3)
- Thick: 0 (0%)
- Somehow thick: 0 (0%)
- Not Thick: 3 (100%)
- "Fish": 0 (0%)
- Uncertain: 0

C3. Cancerians (n=8, n'=6)
- Thick: 0 (0%)
- Somehow thick: 0 (0%)
- Not Thick: 6 (100%)
- "Fish": 0 (0%)
- Uncertain: 2

Note: the two uncertain guys in this group do seem to have quite thick
eyebrows but they also wear glasses and I can't discern with enough
clarity.

C4. Capricornians (n=6, n'=6)
- Thick: 1 (17%)
- Somehow thick: 1 (17%)
- Not Thick: 4 (67%)
- "Fish": 0 (0%)
- Uncertain: 0

*Thick+"somehow": 2 (33%)
______________

THIRD: Conclussions:

With all the disclaimer safguards that this kind of study deserves,
the apparent conclussions are:

1. Thick eyebrows seem to show a strong clear association with
Saggitarius (Sun sign)
2. Thick eyebrows seem also quite frequent among the other study
groups (Pisces and Libra Sun signs) but that correlation is only half
as strong as with Saggitarius.
3. Fish-like eyebrows have been truly hard to find. Still, the only
case came (as expected) among Pisceans.
4. The control groups seem to have much less incidence of thick
eyebrows. Yet:
a)Capricorn stands clearly as an exception, with rates that
approximate those of Libra and Pisces study groups. This may be due to
the trait being also common among people of that sign, to Mercury or
Venus in Sagg interfering or to other accidents in the charts of those
two people (possibly Jupiter aspecting the Asc.)
b) I have some reserve for the Cancer control group too but, even
considering the two uncertain cases, still they seem to be under the
levels of the study groups.

In general, I think that the study seems to corroborate, at least
partly, the expectations expressed in the Initial Hypothesis. Of
course only further and more serious studies can determine
definitively if that's the case.

Enjoy,
Luis.

Hi, Moshe.

I'm glad that you enjoyed my little entertainment (or semblance of a
realistic experiment).

Surely other features can be used too, at least to "toy" (experiment)
with them and see if they seem to have any connection. One of the
problems, of course, is that our faces are very flexible and different
gestures can result in different appearences (for instance, my
eyebrows, only slightly pointed in normal position, can look very much
"ram-like" when I put an angry face). Ideally all pics should be
possibly standarized, maybe frontal "passport-like" photos with no
gesture (serious). But realistically, that's asking too much maybe for
volunteers around the World that may have hundreds of images or (as in
my case) just a few of themselves.

Anyhow, I have always been fascinated by the apparent (but slippery)
correlation between Astrological signature and appearence. In fact, I
suspect that, wouldn't be because of that I would have remained
skeptic towards Astrology. But most of my relatives and friends seem
to resemble what I would expect from their Sun signs in one way or
another and that shocked me profoundly when I discovered it.

Guess that I chose eyebrows because they are relatively easy to spot,
at least for me. I generally expect people with the previously
described eyebrows to be "Martians" on one way or another, people with
  straight (slash-like) eyebrows to be Mercurians and those with
"fish-like" ones (caution: these sometimes resemble the "ram" type) to
have strong Piscean/Neptunian influence, while thick ones seem to be
associated with Jovian influences... I'm not very sure about the rest
of types.

But I also look at many other features, all of them with some
uncertainty. For instance the overall shape of head and body is also
meaningful, ears could be meaningful as well but they are too often
hidden under the hair or by the perspective of the picture.

One thing I suspect to have "discovered" by looking at Astrofaces'
album is that Aquarians/Uranians seem to have some strange "electric"
smile (but some Gemini do too) and even they seem to appear blurred in
the photos more frequently than any other type - who knows why!

In general I expect the following from each type (but it's not always
the case):
- Saturnians: quite tall and bony, low eyebrows, maybe swollen cheeks,
often prominent lower lip
- Jovians: rather tall and often with some fatty tendency (though
there's also the "light" Jovian, specially among Saggs), thick
eyebrows (or fish-like in the case of Pisceans)
- Martians: medium height, strong or athletic build, "ram" or
"pointed" eyebrows. Often either elongated faces or "hexagonal" ones
(wider in the middle of the face). Arians often look somehow "reddish"
(even if they are black), while Scorpians (like all watery people)
tend to look often either pale or quite dark.
- Venusian: rather small and with round tendecy (there's also a slim
variant though), longer natural eyelids than usual, round/oval rather
small faces, reddish cheeks among white people often. Rather pinky
lips (among Caucasoids).
- Mercurian: small, rather slim and with horizontal eyebrows
(slash-like). They often show wide foreheads and the lower half of the
face seems a little like an inverted triangle.
- Lunars always mislead me but they seem to have wide eyes, thin noses
and a relatively prominent occipital region. They may be tall, they
may be fatty but that seems to be not regular enough.
- Solars tend to be medium sized with quite proportionate normally
oval heads. One think that has stuck to my mind is that they seem to
have rather reddish lips (at least among whites).

But all these suppositions (or any others), I know, must be checked
via experimentation. Intuitive evaluation can be a startpoint but
demonstrates nothing - it lacks any scientific value. With five
planets clustered in Virgo I can't ignore that.

Personally, I'd love to see reasonable scientific studies that give at
least some statistical validity to the correlation between Astrology
and people. This can be done, I'm possitive about it, but it requires
some serious effort. The photo-album and the intentions of Astrofaces
seem to go in that line and I hope my divagations can help to inspire
also such a line of work. I'm ready to help as much as I can.

Apart of physical appearence, other lines of work could be in
associating basic astro-traits with (also basic) psychological
patterns. For instance, I would expect Martians to fall more easily in
rage than Venusians. This could be easily checked with enough
volunteers and the help of a psychologist.

The experiments should not be aimed at finding (as some so-called
"skeptics" have done) wether Astrologists can or not determine facts
with the mere help of natal charts. But I'd rather try to work with
the most simple possible items.

This is because we all have very complex influences from all planets
and all or most signs play some role in each one of our charts. We
can't lose perspective that way, rather we must focus (as Atrofaces
does) in the (generally) most important traits in order to make things
simple and statisticaly significative. We may lose resolution but we
will gain workability.

In a sense I was also inspired by something I read about some
Insurance company doing some statistical study on driving reliability
(frequency of accidents) by Sun sign. It's extremely simple but it
seemed to yield some clear results (Capricorns, of course, were the
safest ones). Yet I have never found the study itself, only articles
on it - so it might even be a fraud, as far as I am concerned.

Yet the idea of studying people statistically by something as easy to
know as their Sun sign seems a very nice and workable way to approach
the study of Astrology as something real (and not just something we
percieve subjectively). We can demonstrate (or falsify) the truth of
Astrology that way, even if we can't maybe work with all its subtleties.

Enjoy,
Luis.

PS- Sorry not to have answered your very specific questions directly.
You're surely right that such "pieces" (mouth, eyes, ears...) can be
associated to astrological types too. But there's a difficulty
implicit in some of those traits being partly genetic (for example,
Black people tend to have thick lips, while East Asians tend to have
smaller eyes - this can be confusing, even if there is also
astro-generated variability among each ethnic group). In my experience
eyebrows don't seem to have any clear ethnic correlation, ears
probably don't either.

--- In astrofaces@yahoogroups.com, Moshe Berlin <mosheberlin@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Luis!
>   Nice work! ..and no computer analysis was needed!  What do you
think about examining eye and mouth shapes? Ears might be good too.
Maybe we should ask for front and side photos with ears showing?
>   Best wishes,
>   Moshe

Thanks Luis!
   Nice work! ..and no computer analysis was needed!  What do you think about
examining eye and mouth shapes? Ears might be good too.  Maybe we should ask for
front and side photos with ears showing?
   Best wishes,
   Moshe






luis_aldamiz <lialdamiz@...> wrote:
           This is my last release today.

(Note: again for the initial exposition, check my previous mail:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrofaces/message/48)

I've checked with a "control group" of seemingly non-Martian people
(impossible to know if they have strong aspects from Mars or Pluto
though) and the result may be a little disappointing (at least for me
it is). Still it doesn't seem to falsify (negate) my initial
hypothesis totally but it does not seem to confirm it very clearly either.

First I tried to work with Taurus Sun people that would not have Aries
or Scorpio Moon/Asc. But I got it messed up twice and found easier to
create a control group as follows: Taurus and Gemini Sun people with
either all-Earth or all-Air in the other two main placements.

The results are as follows:

- "Ram" type eyebrows: 6 (2 very clear, 4 quite clear)
- "Pointed" type: 14 (1 very clear, 13 quite clear)
- Other "non-Martian" types: 18
- Uncertain: 9

Total control group: 47
Workable total (total minus "uncertain"): 38
Total "Martian" eyebrows: 20 (53%)
-> "Ram" type: 6 (16%)
-> "Pointed" type: 14 (37%)
Total "non-Martian" eyebrows: 18 (47%)

(The terms "Martian" and "non-Martian" are used always according to my
initial hypothesis).

It does seem as if the "Martian" types would be less frequent among
non-Martian people (or at least people with little fire or water) but
the difference, while maybe significative (almost 20 percentual
points) is not so extreme as to be conclussive (at least in my
opinion). Also the study has not been done in a "blind" context: I
have tried to remain neutral but I'm possibly biased in favor of the
initial hypothesis. Ideally the different images would have to be
offered without any possible identification to one or more neutral
volunteers who would classify them without knowledge of their
astrological traits or even the object of the study.

Hopefully someone with more means than I have can do something of the
like in the future. Meanwhile I hope that you liked my preliminary
experiment. And I also hope that it arises some discussion in this forum.

Enjoy,
Luis.






---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is my last release today.

(Note: again for the initial exposition, check my previous mail:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrofaces/message/48)

I've checked with a "control group" of seemingly non-Martian people
(impossible to know if they have strong aspects from Mars or Pluto
though) and the result may be a little disappointing (at least for me
it is). Still it doesn't seem to falsify (negate) my initial
hypothesis totally but it does not seem to confirm it very clearly either.

First I tried to work with Taurus Sun people that would not have Aries
or Scorpio Moon/Asc. But I got it messed up twice and found easier to
create a control group as follows: Taurus and Gemini Sun people with
either all-Earth or all-Air in the other two main placements.

The results are as follows:

- "Ram" type eyebrows: 6 (2 very clear, 4 quite clear)
- "Pointed" type: 14 (1 very clear, 13 quite clear)
- Other "non-Martian" types: 18
- Uncertain: 9

Total control group: 47
Workable total (total minus "uncertain"): 38
Total "Martian" eyebrows: 20 (53%)
-> "Ram" type: 6 (16%)
-> "Pointed" type: 14 (37%)
Total "non-Martian" eyebrows: 18 (47%)

(The terms "Martian" and "non-Martian" are used always according to my
initial hypothesis).

It does seem as if the "Martian" types would be less frequent among
non-Martian people (or at least people with little fire or water) but
the difference, while maybe significative (almost 20 percentual
points) is not so extreme as to be conclussive (at least in my
opinion). Also the study has not been done in a "blind" context: I
have tried to remain neutral but I'm possibly biased in favor of the
initial hypothesis. Ideally the different images would have to be
offered without any possible identification to one or more neutral
volunteers who would classify them without knowledge of their
astrological traits or even the object of the study.

Hopefully someone with more means than I have can do something of the
like in the future. Meanwhile I hope that you liked my preliminary
experiment. And I also hope that it arises some discussion in this forum.

Enjoy,
Luis.

Hi again.

(Note: read my previous mail to understand the details:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrofaces/message/48)

I've just done a second step in my study. This time I have counted the
"Martian" eyebrows among Aries Moon people present in Astrofaces
photo-album (some are repeated from the previous study, as they are
double or even triple Arians). The results are as follows:

- "Ram" eyebrows: 71 (24 very clear, 47 quite clear)
- "Pointed" eyebrows: 46 (15 very clear, 31 quite clear)
- Other: 50
- Uncertain: 44

Total Aries Moons: 211.
Total minus uncertain types (workable total): 167

Statistics:
- All "Martian" eyebrows: 70%
- Ram type: 43%
- Pointed type: 28%
- Other ("non-Martian") types: 30%

The result seems very simmilar to the previous one on Aries Suns. My
next step will be to study some apparently non-Martian groups, for
instance Taureans without Aries or Scorpio in any of the three main
aspects.

Hope you're finding this interesting.

Luis.

Hi all.

I feel it's a pity that this forum doesn't seem to show any activity
and recently I've felt impulsed (Saturn on my Mars trine my Asc?) to
start researching this issue. My idea is to focus in some specific
trait(s) that seem associated to specific signs or maybe planetary
rulerships. I am particularly intrigued by a rather visible trait that
intuitively I associate with Arians and Martian people in general.

All started some weeks ago when I was looking for celebrities born in
my same year and was using Wikipedia for that purpose, I happened to
open the page of actress Ashley Judd
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Judd), looked at her photo saw
the typical "ram" eyebrows (she's a good example, take a look if you
don't have clear what I'm talking about) and said to myself: "Aries".
At least in this case I got it right and started wondering about those
"ram eyebrows".

After a while I went to Astrofaces and started looking for Aries Suns,
then Scorpio Suns (also ruled by Mars in traditional Astrology), Aries
risings and Moons, Taureans and Leos for control... and, while I
hadn't done any statistical work, I ended rather ratified in my
intuitive impression that those "ram" eyebrows and another related
type (see below) were typical of Mars ruled signs.

I had to do an statistical study but I wasn't in the mood then.

I have made my first assault today. I will try to keep up with this
self-imposed task and keep adding more and more stuff in statistical
terms (though subjective appreciation is not absent, obviously).

I find that this approach of focusing in specific traits and treat
them statistically can be fruitful - at least till the Astrofaces team
or someone else can actually use computerized analysis for a much
deeper study.

So, as I say here is my first attempt: an analysis of the frequency of
"ram" type and related "pointed" type eyebrows among Aries Sun people,
using Astrofaces bank of photos. I will try to continue studying other
groups (Aries rising and Moon people, Scorpians, and other seemingly
non-Martian people for control).

I hope that you understand what I call "pointed" or "inverted V"
eyebrows. They are so typical (example:
http://www.astrofaces.com/astrofaces/photos/01/010904-3.jpg)... and in
my amateur chart readings all people with such features happen to have
strong Martian or Plutonian influences either on Sun or Ascendant. Yet
often that's a planet solidly aspecting the Ascendant, a factor that
is not considered in the Astrofaces' photo album - what may mislead,
as such aspects seem to influence strongly appearence, at least in my
humble opinion.

Anyhow, after looking carefully at the eyebrows of all Aries faces in
Astrofaces, I got the following results:

- Ram eyebrows: 85 (29 very clear, 56 pretty much)
- Pointed (inv. V) eyebrows: 45 (25 very clear, 20 pretty much)
- Other types: 50
- Uncertain: 40 (due often to bad pics or other factors as glasses or
hair occulting the eyebrows - scarce hair too)

The "pretty much" category is not well defined and includes many that
seem hybrid between the two types searched for, others that seem to
have different types in each eyebrow (assymetric) and others yet that
approach the type but are not clear enough.

In percentages, the total "Martian eyebrows" ("ram"+"pointed" types)
are between 59% of all Aries Sun (considering the uncertain cases as
"false") and 72% (taking out the "uncertain" in the total). I'd rather
work with the second figure, as I think it's closer to reality.

Working with a restricted total (without "uncertain" cases) of 180
Aries Sun people, the statistic is as follows:
- Ram type: 47% (16% very clear + 31% rather clear)
- Pointed type:  25% (14% very clear + 11% rather clear)
- Total "Martian" types: 72%
- Other types: 28%

It's soon to reach conclussions but I suspect that 72% is
"statistically significant" (whatever that means - I'm not
Sociologist!). I know though that I have to expand my still incipient
study to corroborate or falsify this initial apparent finding.

I also hope that this idea may serve as inspiration to others to do
simmilar (or maybe totally different) studies on their own hypothesis.
This one will continue in the next hours and days and I'll keep you
informed of my results.

Thanks to all the anonymous Arians who volunteered ;-)

Luis.

Hi,
www.shopastrology.com <http://shopastrology.com>                is one
window portal for astrology related information. Our purpose
is not just to tell you what your destiny is via the stars but also
to present you the series of remedial measures aimed at purifying
your subtle or psychic environment, balancing your planetary influences
and maximizing your karma.

Our methods include the use of Gems, Rudraksha, Yantras, Mantras,
Deities, Rituals. Our Stores include Rudrakshas, Parad store, Sacred
Yantras, Lucky charms, Mantra CD's, Gemstones, Feng-Shui products
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making, Question-wheel, Match-making Astro Magic, Meditational,
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you deserve.

www.shopastrology.com < http://shopastrology.com>                has
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and offers you that same help and advice. So now you will not face
any hassle of time zone and geographical barriers, just click and
get advice and solutions to all your problems. Register on
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problems from our expert astrologers.

Regards.
Shopastrology Team


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,
www.shopastrology.com <http://shopastrology.com>                is one
window portal for astrology related information. Our purpose
is not just to tell you what your destiny is via the stars but also
to present you the series of remedial measures aimed at purifying
your subtle or psychic environment, balancing your planetary influences
and maximizing your karma.

Our methods include the use of Gems, Rudraksha, Yantras, Mantras,
Deities, Rituals. Our Stores include Rudrakshas, Parad store, Sacred
Yantras, Lucky charms, Mantra CD's, Gemstones, Feng-Shui products
etc.

We have added a wide range astrological services including Horoscope
making, Question-wheel, Match-making Astro Magic, Meditational,
Spiritual Products to meet all your material and spiritual needs
under one roof

Our site has attracted thousands of unique visitors, in their quest
to find their fate. At www.shopastrology.com we are committed to
100% customer satisfaction and ensure that whatever be your problem,
technical, order related or simply feedback, you will get the attention
you deserve.

www.shopastrology.com < http://shopastrology.com>                has
already helped many people create wonderful, productive lives
and offers you that same help and advice. So now you will not face
any hassle of time zone and geographical barriers, just click and
get advice and solutions to all your problems. Register on
www.shopastrology.com               and get answers to your queries and
problems from our expert astrologers.

Regards.
Shopastrology Team


Copyrighht               Reserved by shopastrology.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,
www.shopastrology.com <http://shopastrology.com>  is one window portal
for astrology related information. Our purpose is not just to tell you
what your destiny is via the stars but also to present you the series of
remedial measures aimed at purifying your subtle or psychic environment,
balancing your planetary influences and maximizing your karma.

Our methods include the use of Gems, Rudraksha, Yantras, Mantras,
Deities, Rituals. Our Stores include Rudrakshas, Parad store, Sacred
Yantras, Lucky charms, Mantra CD's, Gemstones, Feng-Shui products etc.

We have added a wide range astrological services including Horoscope
making, Question-wheel, Match-making Astro Magic, Meditational,
Spiritual Products to meet all your material and spiritual needs under
one roof

Our site has attracted thousands of unique visitors, in their quest to
find their fate. At www.shopastrology.com we are committed to 100%
customer satisfaction and ensure that whatever be your problem,
technical, order related or simply feedback, you will get the attention
you deserve.

www.shopastrology.com <http://shopastrology.com>  has already helped
many people create wonderful, productive lives and offers you that same
help and advice. So now you will not face any hassle of time zone and
geographical barriers, just click and get advice and solutions to all
your problems. Register on www.shopastrology.com and get answers to your
queries and problems from our expert astrologers.

Regards.
Shopastrology Team


Copyrighht Reserved by shopastrology.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,
www.shopastrology.com <http://shopastrology.com>                is one
window portal for astrology related information. Our purpose
is not just to tell you what your destiny is via the stars but also
to present you the series of remedial measures aimed at purifying
your subtle or psychic environment, balancing your planetary influences
and maximizing your karma.

Our methods include the use of Gems, Rudraksha, Yantras, Mantras,
Deities, Rituals. Our Stores include Rudrakshas, Parad store, Sacred
Yantras, Lucky charms, Mantra CD's, Gemstones, Feng-Shui products
etc.

We have added a wide range astrological services including Horoscope
making, Question-wheel, Match-making Astro Magic, Meditational,
Spiritual Products to meet all your material and spiritual needs
under one roof

Our site has attracted thousands of unique visitors, in their quest
to find their fate. At www.shopastrology.com we are committed to
100% customer satisfaction and ensure that whatever be your problem,
technical, order related or simply feedback, you will get the attention
you deserve.

www.shopastrology.com < http://shopastrology.com>                has
already helped many people create wonderful, productive lives
and offers you that same help and advice. So now you will not face
any hassle of time zone and geographical barriers, just click and
get advice and solutions to all your problems. Register on
www.shopastrology.com               and get answers to your queries and
problems from our expert astrologers.

Regards.
Shopastrology Team


Copyrighht               Reserved by shopastrology.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Amy's story is most interesting... though I'd never date a person with a
Moon opposing mine (like a cousin of mine, btw) if I could help it. You
can probably work with very well with such a person but regarding
emotions and domestic life Moon is most important. Btw, Indian
astrologers usually call the Moon the Ego (and they talk of people being
their Moon sign), so maybe Moon and Sun are after all just two aspects
of the "ego". I personally see the Sun as willpower (expressive ego) and
the Moon as the more passive/reflexive/sensitive part of the psyche
(receptive ego). You can call them both "soul" as well, for what I can tell.

On another issue: cand some administrator ban that "shopastrology"
spammer of the first post of this digest? ;-)

astrofaces@yahoogroups.com escribió:
>
> There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Welcome to Shopastrology!!
>     From: shopastrology
>
> 2. Re: further research
>     From: Amy Miles
>
>
> Messages
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> 1. Welcome to Shopastrology!!
>     Posted by: "shopastrology" shopastrology@... shopastrology
>     Date: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:24 am (PDT)
>
>
>
> Hi,
> www.shopastrology.com <http://shopastrology.com>  is one window portal
> for astrology related information. Our purpose is not just to tell you
> what your destiny is via the stars but also to present you the series of
> remedial measures aimed at purifying your subtle or psychic environment,
> balancing your planetary influences and maximizing your karma.
>
> Our methods include the use of Gems, Rudraksha, Yantras, Mantras,
> Deities, Rituals. Our Stores include Rudrakshas, Parad store, Sacred
> Yantras, Lucky charms, Mantra CD's, Gemstones, Feng-Shui products etc.
>
> We have added a wide range astrological services including Horoscope
> making, Question-wheel, Match-making Astro Magic, Meditational,
> Spiritual Products to meet all your material and spiritual needs under
> one roof
>
> Our site has attracted thousands of unique visitors, in their quest to
> find their fate. At www.shopastrology.com we are committed to 100%
> customer satisfaction and ensure that whatever be your problem,
> technical, order related or simply feedback, you will get the attention
> you deserve.
>
> www.shopastrology.com <http://shopastrology.com>  has already helped
> many people create wonderful, productive lives and offers you that same
> help and advice. So now you will not face any hassle of time zone and
> geographical barriers, just click and get advice and solutions to all
> your problems. Register on www.shopastrology.com and get answers to your
> queries and problems from our expert astrologers.
>
> Regards.
> Shopastrology Team
>
>
> Copyrighht Reserved by shopastrology.com
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (1)
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> 2. Re: further research
>     Posted by: "Amy Miles" fly2eyrie@... fly2eyrie
>     Date: Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:56 am (PDT)
>
> To anyone who is interested in meeting an astrological twin, I have to share
this story, because I've actually done it.....or at least come very close to it.
Back in May of 2004, I started writing online with a pen pal having know idea
what his rising sign was, only knowing that we were both Scorpios, but not born
on the same day.  I am a November 10th, 1978 born Scorpio, with a Pisces moon
and a Capricorn rising. I immediatly inquired about his birth time and
discovered we were both cap. risers born at almost the exact same time, only he
was born on November 17th, 1973, so we are talking about a 5 year difference. 
As far as the moon was concerned, and this has been the core of all our
problems, we are OPPOSITES!  Meaning his moon is in Virgo, which is the polar
opposite of Pisces. We did look very much alike, and I have the amazing pictures
if anyone wants to see them....we are both thin with very similar faces, only I
had green eyes and he had brown eyes, and as kids he
>  was a blonde, I a brunette.  Now I didn't think the Virgo moon thing would be
a problem, because in so many ways we had lived parallel lives......I was
completely amazed by the amount of things we had in common; we both had
relationships with people who had 3 kids and the same first name, both had lived
shy loner life styles who would sit all by ourselves in the school cafateria in
high school, I mean the list goes on and on.....and in some ways there seemed to
be a parallel opposite affect to our lives, I was the soft gentle one, and he
was the rebellious one......I became totally consumed by this relationship.  But
so many problems developed, he saw it more as a friendship, and I saw it more as
a romantic relationship.....I needed compassion, warmth, and generosity, because
that is the core of all that I am.....and he was more wrapped up in wanting me
to just be a vulnerable bimbo and mindlessly flirt with him over the phone and
internet.  I couldn't understand how this
>  was happening......but later discovered he was totally freaked out by my
Piscean intuition and me always reading him like the back of my hand... probing
deeply into his off limits internal world (anyone who knows anything about
Scorpios gets what I'm talking about) we met in person a few times.....and the
end result was that I stopped writing him because I couldn't handle feeling like
I was the least important person in his life only because I had more important
things to talk about about besides sqealing and flirting like a bimbo the way
his Pisces sun Cancer moon cyber girlfriend did who he called a "mermaid
princess".
>
>   In the end he did reach out to me and admitted being a fool, and told me I
was wise beyond my years.  My take on all of this is that the moon is the core
of who we are, and the Sun is the ego.....people are more fixated on Sun signs
because this is an ego driven world we live in.  If we learn to silence the ego,
a deeper part of our soul will emerge. And Capricorn rising is one of the
hardest rising signs, I would love to someday meet a true astrological twin,
this is something I've been passionate about for years....I feel it would really
help fill an emptyness thats always been there. Nothing is more amazing in the
world than twins! ;-)  A good personals website that shows birth days and birth
times is Starmatch.com .
>
>   Amy
>
> jasonfan2003 <jasonfan2003@...> wrote:
>           Very impressive web site! I really want to discuss with you about
> this whole project.
>
> Throughout the years, I've been doing researches on astrology
> myself. One of the most interesting topic is how the natal chart can
> reflect our appearances. What I want to say for the moment is that
> the way to find this out would not be as simple as your assumptions,
> i.e. Sun Sign + Moon Sign + Ascendant Sign.
>
> There're couple of astrologers putting efforts on similar researchs
> like your in human history. One of the best books on this topic
> is "Astrological body types" written by Judith Hill. Although the
> book has given a lot of valuable information on this topic, none of
> them can be repeatedly duplicated in real life cases. You results
> will probably come out like hers. 3 or 4 of 10 cases are strangely
> outstanding. The rest 6 or 7 cases does not work. I believe the
> method used (such as Sun Sign + Moon Sign + Ascendant Sign) is not
> correct or too simple.
>
> Until I was able to buy the out-of-print book "Recent Advances in
> Astrology" by Geoffrey Dean, I have some idea how should the method
> to be applied. The book has mentioned about the successful works of
> Edith Wangemann. But, I'm very disappointed that the information is
> not detail enough. The only thing I know is that there are some co-
> relations found between the cusps of Koch House system and Human
> faces. The problem is that I can read German and I would not be able
> to reach further information about Edith Wangemann's work.
>
> Althought she has just passed away, I was wonder if you will be able
> to find the further information of her works.
>
> Regards,
> Jason Fan (From Hong Kong)
>
> --- In astrofaces@yahoogroups.com, Moshe Berlin <mosheberlin@...>
> wrote:
>
>> good question,
>> we don't add celebrity photos for several reasons:
>> 1) we don't have their permission
>> 2) their birthdata is even less reliable than the information
>>
> we have now
>
>> 3) so many public personalities have cosmetic surgery.
>> there might be a few in the database that people sent in the
>>
> staff didn't recognize, but please don't send celebrity photos.
>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> hpi_97 <caroline.rains@...> wrote: What about posting
>>
> photos of public personalities whose birth
>
>> charts are known? That way, there would be many more pictures
>> to base a research project on.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>>
>> Visit your group "astrofaces" on the web.
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> astrofaces-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>>
> Service.
>
>> ---------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
> ___________________________________________________
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To anyone who is interested in meeting an astrological twin, I have to share
this story, because I've actually done it.....or at least come very close to it.
Back in May of 2004, I started writing online with a pen pal having know idea
what his rising sign was, only knowing that we were both Scorpios, but not born
on the same day.  I am a November 10th, 1978 born Scorpio, with a Pisces moon
and a Capricorn rising. I immediatly inquired about his birth time and
discovered we were both cap. risers born at almost the exact same time, only he
was born on November 17th, 1973, so we are talking about a 5 year difference. 
As far as the moon was concerned, and this has been the core of all our
problems, we are OPPOSITES!  Meaning his moon is in Virgo, which is the polar
opposite of Pisces. We did look very much alike, and I have the amazing pictures
if anyone wants to see them....we are both thin with very similar faces, only I
had green eyes and he had brown eyes, and as kids he
  was a blonde, I a brunette.  Now I didn't think the Virgo moon thing would be a
problem, because in so many ways we had lived parallel lives......I was
completely amazed by the amount of things we had in common; we both had
relationships with people who had 3 kids and the same first name, both had lived
shy loner life styles who would sit all by ourselves in the school cafateria in
high school, I mean the list goes on and on.....and in some ways there seemed to
be a parallel opposite affect to our lives, I was the soft gentle one, and he
was the rebellious one......I became totally consumed by this relationship.  But
so many problems developed, he saw it more as a friendship, and I saw it more as
a romantic relationship.....I needed compassion, warmth, and generosity, because
that is the core of all that I am.....and he was more wrapped up in wanting me
to just be a vulnerable bimbo and mindlessly flirt with him over the phone and
internet.  I couldn't understand how this
  was happening......but later discovered he was totally freaked out by my
Piscean intuition and me always reading him like the back of my hand... probing
deeply into his off limits internal world (anyone who knows anything about
Scorpios gets what I'm talking about) we met in person a few times.....and the
end result was that I stopped writing him because I couldn't handle feeling like
I was the least important person in his life only because I had more important
things to talk about about besides sqealing and flirting like a bimbo the way
his Pisces sun Cancer moon cyber girlfriend did who he called a "mermaid
princess".

   In the end he did reach out to me and admitted being a fool, and told me I was
wise beyond my years.  My take on all of this is that the moon is the core of
who we are, and the Sun is the ego.....people are more fixated on Sun signs
because this is an ego driven world we live in.  If we learn to silence the ego,
a deeper part of our soul will emerge. And Capricorn rising is one of the
hardest rising signs, I would love to someday meet a true astrological twin,
this is something I've been passionate about for years....I feel it would really
help fill an emptyness thats always been there. Nothing is more amazing in the
world than twins! ;-)  A good personals website that shows birth days and birth
times is Starmatch.com .

   Amy

jasonfan2003 <jasonfan2003@...> wrote:
           Very impressive web site! I really want to discuss with you about
this whole project.

Throughout the years, I've been doing researches on astrology
myself. One of the most interesting topic is how the natal chart can
reflect our appearances. What I want to say for the moment is that
the way to find this out would not be as simple as your assumptions,
i.e. Sun Sign + Moon Sign + Ascendant Sign.

There're couple of astrologers putting efforts on similar researchs
like your in human history. One of the best books on this topic
is "Astrological body types" written by Judith Hill. Although the
book has given a lot of valuable information on this topic, none of
them can be repeatedly duplicated in real life cases. You results
will probably come out like hers. 3 or 4 of 10 cases are strangely
outstanding. The rest 6 or 7 cases does not work. I believe the
method used (such as Sun Sign + Moon Sign + Ascendant Sign) is not
correct or too simple.

Until I was able to buy the out-of-print book "Recent Advances in
Astrology" by Geoffrey Dean, I have some idea how should the method
to be applied. The book has mentioned about the successful works of
Edith Wangemann. But, I'm very disappointed that the information is
not detail enough. The only thing I know is that there are some co-
relations found between the cusps of Koch House system and Human
faces. The problem is that I can read German and I would not be able
to reach further information about Edith Wangemann's work.

Althought she has just passed away, I was wonder if you will be able
to find the further information of her works.

Regards,
Jason Fan (From Hong Kong)

--- In astrofaces@yahoogroups.com, Moshe Berlin <mosheberlin@...>
wrote:
>
> good question,
> we don't add celebrity photos for several reasons:
> 1) we don't have their permission
> 2) their birthdata is even less reliable than the information
we have now
> 3) so many public personalities have cosmetic surgery.
> there might be a few in the database that people sent in the
staff didn't recognize, but please don't send celebrity photos.
> Thanks,
>
>
>
>
> hpi_97 <caroline.rains@...> wrote: What about posting
photos of public personalities whose birth
> charts are known? That way, there would be many more pictures
> to base a research project on.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "astrofaces" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> astrofaces-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Copyrighht Reserved by shopastrology.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Moishe,

Having clicking the photo on this web site, I have already inspired
with some ideas on my mind. I wonder whether you can help me.

Yet, I can't find the birth data of the photo you've posted. Can you
provide the birth data of the following person:
021211-3
030411-1 (I know she's Lois Rodden)
030411-3
040411-3
050311-1
071111-4
090811-1
121211-1
121211-3

I would really appreciate if you can do it.

Thanks,
Jason



--- In astrofaces@yahoogroups.com, "jasonfan2003" <jasonfan2003@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi, All
>
> Let me clarify 2 things first. First, there's a typing mistake on
my
> message. "I cannot read German." I would appreciate if Moishe can
> help me to correct my original message because I can't modify it.
> Second thing is I am not from Japan. Hong Kong is a part of China
> now and it used to be a British colonies before 1997. And, I am a
> Chinese.
>
> John,
> I am sure your idea will not work. You've presumed that people
born
> with the same Sun Sign are sharing specific features. The idea of
> narrowing down the criteria of testing scheme is very good.
However,
> you've making it too simple. I don't know how your expertise in
> astrology. But, I hope you can understand the following example.
>
> People who are sharing the same Sun Sign, Moon Sign and Ascendant
> may or may not look alike in facial appearance. For any same
> combination of this, there is a time period of 2 hours differences
> in the same Ascendant Sign. The Sign of Ascendant changes around
> every 2 hours. In other words, there's 30 degrees of differences.
> Although 2 persons are sharing the same combinations, the aspects
to
> their Ascendant can be various extremely. For example, if
Ascendant
> of person A received a square from Jupiter and Ascendant of person
B
> received an opposition from Saturn. The result will definitely
make
> the 2 person look really different in facial characteristics. In
> this case the influences of Jupiter have overrides the
> characteristics of Sun Sign, Moon Sign and Ascendant. Whereas in
> person B's chart, the same happened to Saturn.
>
> Do you understand what I said? This explained why I am looking for
> Edith Wangemann's works those day. I cannot read German and I have
> no way to access her old journal "Sein und Werden". As far as I
> known, her work has never been published in books. I wonder if you
> can contact any of her students in German. Her project has ended
in
> success as Dr. Geoffrery Dean mentioned in his book, 'Recent
> Advances in Natal Astrology".
>
> Cheers,
> Jason Fan (From Hong Kong)
>
>
>
> --- In astrofaces@yahoogroups.com, "John Gilbert(3)"
> <johngilbertpttraverse@> wrote:
> >
> > Sent to: Moishe and jason in Japan
> > How about reverse engineering the question with two advantages
a)
> & b)
> > Get the public to send in their photos ( snail mail plus
email ) -
> 3 or more pictures of a person, by
> > a) offering to have astroface try to find their double ( a
letter
> explaining the process could be copied from the astroface
website.
> When anyone sees a potential 'double' on the street, they can hand
> the stranger the astroface letter and say "I think that a friend
of
> mine is your double, so give me your email and phone number and
I'll
> tell them to contact you." and/or "Go to abc where he/she works
and
> see for yourself"  The prestigiously worded letter handed out at
the
> same time as you speak removes the fear of a stranger approaching,
> and the human nature ego response of most recipients is teased by
> > b) the intrigue of finding someone who looks exactly like them.)
> >
> > Moishe, since most people only know the Sun sign, this would
focus
> on the Sun sign ( only for this proposed project ).  Once you have
> posted the photo matches perhaps you can attempt to analize for
> matches of their more error prone moon or ascendant.  Without
> presuming what forces contribute to the face, this approach might
> show that the Sun sign controls more of specific features.  Am I
> nuts, or if it's not too labour intensive do you think you could
> modify this idea into something useful ?
> > Jason seems to be on track - Someone who speaks/writes in German
> needs to do a lot of detective googling and probe for lost friends
> of Edith Wangemann in Germany.
> > Regards,
> > John Gilbert - vintage Feb. 18, 1936 - godhas4legs@ - Toronto,
> Canada - 416.481.5668 phone PM only (away in the country Friday to
> Monday for much of the summer)
> > Forward this message thread far and w-i-d-e
> > because you do have a double out there ... somewhere.
> > ====
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: jasonfan2003
> >   To: astrofaces@yahoogroups.com
> >   Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 3:27 AM
> >   Subject: [astrofaces] Re: further research
> >
> >
> >   Very impressive web site! I really want to discuss with you
> about
> >   this whole project.
> >
> >   Throughout the years, I've been doing researches on astrology
> >   myself. One of the most interesting topic is how the natal
chart
> can
> >   reflect our appearances. What I want to say for the moment is
> that
> >   the way to find this out would not be as simple as your
> assumptions,
> >   i.e. Sun Sign + Moon Sign + Ascendant Sign.
> >
> >   There're couple of astrologers putting efforts on similar
> researchs
> >   like your in human history. One of the best books on this
topic
> >   is "Astrological body types" written by Judith Hill. Although
> the
> >   book has given a lot of valuable information on this topic,
none
> of
> >   them can be repeatedly duplicated in real life cases. You
> results
> >   will probably come out like hers. 3 or 4 of 10 cases are
> strangely
> >   outstanding. The rest 6 or 7 cases does not work. I believe
the
> >   method used (such as Sun Sign + Moon Sign + Ascendant Sign) is
> not
> >   correct or too simple.
> >
> >   Until I was able to buy the out-of-print book "Recent Advances
> in
> >   Astrology" by Geoffrey Dean, I have some idea how should the
> method
> >   to be applied. The book has mentioned about the successful
works
> of
> >   Edith Wangemann. But, I'm very disappointed that the
information
> is
> >   not detail enough. The only thing I know is that there are
some
> co-
> >   relations found between the cusps of Koch House system and
Human
> >   faces. The problem is that I can read German and I would not
be
> able
> >   to reach further information about Edith Wangemann's work.
> >
> >   Althought she has just passed away, I was wonder if you will
be
> able
> >   to find the further information of her works.
> >
> >   Regards,
> >   Jason Fan (From Hong Kong)
> >
> >   --- In astrofaces@yahoogroups.com, Moshe Berlin <mosheberlin@>
> >   wrote:
> >   >
> >   > good question,
> >   > we don't add celebrity photos for several reasons:
> >   > 1) we don't have their permission
> >   > 2) their birthdata is even less reliable than the
information
> >   we have now
> >   > 3) so many public personalities have cosmetic surgery.
> >   > there might be a few in the database that people sent in the
> >   staff didn't recognize, but please don't send celebrity photos.
> >   > Thanks,
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > hpi_97 <caroline.rains@> wrote: What about posting
> >   photos of public personalities whose birth
> >   > charts are known? That way, there would be many more pictures
> >   > to base a research project on.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > ---------------------------------
> >   > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > Visit your group "astrofaces" on the web.
> >   >
> >   > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >   > astrofaces-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >   >
> >   > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> >   Service.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > ---------------------------------
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > __________________________________________________
> >   > Do You Yahoo!?
> >   > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
around
> >   > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >   >
> >   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >   >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Luis,

I think you have confused the cases yourself. First,
you mother's birthtime is uncertain or around an hour.
Thus, her chart should not be compared with Thatcher's
chart for finding out a valid scheme on astroface
project. Otherwise, you'll not be able to clarify what
factors causing what features. And, you will
complicate the cases yourself like what I've done 10
years ago.

Secondly, you should not start your research based on
inaccurate data. I suggest you to buy a CD from
astrodatabank instead. That's a good place to start
with. Professional astrologers usually do their
research on this system.

I guess you're not professional astrologer either. I
would suggest this web site to get more research
documents from official astrological institutes like
AFA, AA and Faculties of Astrological studies, etc.
Otherwise, it will finally end up like a discussion
around amateur's gossip. There's no harm of doing this
but the project will not be end in success.

Cheers,
Jason




--- luis_aldamiz <lialdamiz@...> »¡¡G

> I said in previous mail that they share Scorpio Asc.
> apparently - yet
> the birthtime of my mother is uncertain for an hour
> or so... I had it
> corrected to that position of Scorpio on my own
> amateur logic but it
> could be even Saggitarius actually. All I know is
> that, assuming that
> my homy correction is ok, they seem could be conj.
> by a reasonable
> orb, same as Moon-Sun which must be conj. by 6?
>
> Not a very close connection maybe but enough to make
> two people
> resemble at some age and in some specific portraits.
>
> My mother's Asc does not have the heavy presence of
> Saturn that
> definitively conditions a lot Mrs. Thatcher's aspect
> (Sat is conj. to
> her Asc. less than 2?. My Mother's Asc. (if
> correct) seems strangely
> unaspected instead.
>
> Note: let it be. The more I think about it, the more
> I'm prone to give
> my mother a Sagg. rising. Scorpio Ascs. are so
> marked!
>
> Another case of my own experience is a person, whose
> young pics
> resembled the Swedish series charachter Pippi
> Langstrum (an actress
> called Nilsson). Checking the BD of the actress and
> my acquintance's
> chart it happened that this latters' Asc is conj. by
> less than 1?to
> Nilsson's (Pippi's) Sun.
>
> There's a crossed connection: it's not just "Sun
> defines this, Moon
> defines that, etc." Moon and Sun or Sun and Asc,
> when in the same
> area, may give two people some simmilar appearence,
> at least in some
> period of life or specific expression.
>
> But people definitively resemble by those
> conjunctions. I have enough
> in-family connections of that type: Taurus father
> and son born just
> one day apart with Moons in trine in earth signs,
> for instance.
>
> Even Moon signs can be felt but I think the Moon is
> less obvious than
> Sun+Asc in the appearence.
>
> Luis.
>
> --- In astrofaces@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fan
> <jasonfan2003@...> wrote:
> >
> > Lius,
> >
> > Thank you for you message.
> >
> > Have you ever checked with the hard aspects of
> > Thatcher's Asc and your mom's Asc? How similar
> they
> > are?
> >
> > I believe...if you tell me there're no hard
> aspects on
> > Asc of your mom, that will make a great
> differences.
> > Now, I'd like to tell you that the bony face
> features
> > of Thatcher should be explained by the
> conjunctions of
> > her Asc with Saturn. I don't know whether the same
> > happened to your mom's natal chart.
> > This aspect can override the influences of the
> > combination of Sun sign + Moon Sign + Rising Sign.
> > Please refers to my latest message posted on
> > astroface.com for detail.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jason
>
>
>
>
>


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