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#1958 From: alas_my_loves
Date: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:33 am
Subject: Re: OT: Mangrove crab-eating frogs
alas_my_loves
Offline Offline
 
--- In austric@yahoogroups.com, "paul jeffrey ang" <pol.pagong@...> wrote:
>
> *Ilocano: tuk�k
> Tagalog: palaka
> Cebuano: baki

Thanks Paul Jeffrey Ang.



>
>
>
> *
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 2:20 PM, alas_my_loves
<no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
> wrote:
>
> >   Sorry for getting so far off topic, but I hoped someone might have
> > experience with this frog, biologically or as a delicacy. Does it
> > actually eat crabs? How?
> >
> > (Crab-eating macaque monkeys do eat crab, but crab-eating seals do
> > not, rather they strain tiny krill shrimp through their filter teeth)
> >
> > http://mangrove.nus.edu.sg/guidebooks/text/2111.htm
> >
> > this frog accumulates urea, possibly for buoyancy, as well as for
> > saline water osmosis control.
> >
> > It is edible, has anyone eaten this frog? I want to know if the urea
> > affects the taste, since shark meat is also said to contain urea
> > which renders it inedible except it's fin. Why one but not the other,
> > regarding edibility? Maybe only the frog's skin contains appreciable
> > urea? Are frog legs delicacies during cooking skinned or not?
> >
> > Does this frog's throat air sac differ from freshwater frog air sacs
> > sizewise or vocalwise or auditorywise?
> >
> > In Malay/Indonesian, frog is 'katak', how about in Philippino?
> >
> >
> >
>

#1957 From: "paul jeffrey ang" <pol.pagong@...>
Date: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:55 am
Subject: Re: OT: Mangrove crab-eating frogs
polpagong
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Ilocano: tukák
Tagalog: palaka
Cebuano: baki




On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 2:20 PM, alas_my_loves <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Sorry for getting so far off topic, but I hoped someone might have
experience with this frog, biologically or as a delicacy. Does it
actually eat crabs? How?

(Crab-eating macaque monkeys do eat crab, but crab-eating seals do
not, rather they strain tiny krill shrimp through their filter teeth)

http://mangrove.nus.edu.sg/guidebooks/text/2111.htm

this frog accumulates urea, possibly for buoyancy, as well as for
saline water osmosis control.

It is edible, has anyone eaten this frog? I want to know if the urea
affects the taste, since shark meat is also said to contain urea
which renders it inedible except it's fin. Why one but not the other,
regarding edibility? Maybe only the frog's skin contains appreciable
urea? Are frog legs delicacies during cooking skinned or not?

Does this frog's throat air sac differ from freshwater frog air sacs
sizewise or vocalwise or auditorywise?

In Malay/Indonesian, frog is 'katak', how about in Philippino?



#1956 From: alas_my_loves
Date: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:20 am
Subject: OT: Mangrove crab-eating frogs
alas_my_loves
Offline Offline
 
Sorry for getting so far off topic, but I hoped someone might have
experience with this frog, biologically or as a delicacy. Does it
actually eat crabs? How?

(Crab-eating macaque monkeys do eat crab, but crab-eating seals do
not, rather they strain tiny krill shrimp through their filter teeth)

http://mangrove.nus.edu.sg/guidebooks/text/2111.htm

this frog accumulates urea, possibly for buoyancy, as well as for
saline water osmosis control.

It is edible, has anyone eaten this frog? I want to know if the urea
affects the taste, since shark meat is also said to contain urea
which renders it inedible except it's fin. Why one but not the other,
regarding edibility? Maybe only the frog's skin contains appreciable
urea? Are frog legs delicacies during cooking skinned or not?

Does this frog's throat air sac differ from freshwater frog air sacs
sizewise or vocalwise or auditorywise?

In Malay/Indonesian, frog is 'katak', how about in Philippino?

#1955 From: "Paul Kekai Manansala" <p.manansala@...>
Date: Mon May 26, 2008 1:19 am
Subject: More on Holocene Dispersal in SE Asia
pinatubo.geo
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
New DNA evidence overturns population migration theory in Island Southeast Asia

The researchers show that population dispersals came earlier, from within the region, and probably resulted from flooding.

The conventional theory, or the `out of Taiwan' model, suggests that the current day populations of Island Southeast Asia (ISEA) originate in a Neolithic expansion from Taiwan, driven by rice agriculturalists about 4,000 years ago. This theory was contested 10 years ago by Oxford University scientist, Dr Stephen Oppenheimer, in his book Eden in the East: The Drowned Continent of Southeast Asia, when he suggested the migrations came from within ISEA and resulted from flooding in the region.

This latest study, led by Leeds University and published in this month's Molecular Biology and Evolution, shows that a substantial fraction of the mitochondrial DNA lines (inherited by female descendants) have been evolving within ISEA for a much longer period, some since modern humans arrived about 50,000 years ago. The DNA lineages show population dispersals at the same time as sea level rises and also show migrations into Taiwan, east out to New Guinea and the Pacific, and west to the Southeast Asian mainland – within the last 10,000 years.

Study co-author Dr Oppenheimer, from the Oxford University School of Anthropology, said: `One of my main predictions in the book was that three major floods following the Ice Age forced the inhabitants to escape in boats and flee to less flood-prone regions. By examining mitochondrial DNA from their descendants in Southeast Asia and the Pacific, we now have strong evidence to support the flooding theory and this is possibly why Southeast Asia has a richer store of flood myths, more than any other region in the world.'

Dr Oppenheimer's book, based on multidisciplinary evidence, writes about the effects of the drowning of a huge ancient continent called `Sundaland' (that extended the Asian landmass as far as Borneo and Java). This happened during the period 15,000 to 7,000 years ago following the last Ice Age. He outlines how rising sea levels in three massive pulses caused flooding and the submergence of the Sunda Continent, creating the Java and South China Seas and the thousands of islands that make up Indonesia and the Philippines today.

Martin Richards, the first Professor of Archaeogenetics at Leeds University, who led the interdisciplinary research team, said: `I think the study results are going to be a big surprise for many archaeologists and linguists, on whose studies conventional migration theories are based. These population expansions had nothing to do with agriculture, but were most likely to have been driven by climate change, in particular global warming and the resulting sea-level rises at the end of the Ice Age between 15,000 to 7,000 years ago.'

Source: Oxford University


Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Nusantao Maritime Trade Network 

#1954 From: "Richard Wordingham" <richard.wordingham@...>
Date: Mon May 12, 2008 4:28 am
Subject: Re: Ancient Beachcombers May Have Travelled Slowly
richardwordi...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In austric@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Kekai Manansala"
<p.manansala@...> wrote:

> Researchers envision that coastal migration would have been a rapid
> process, but seaweed samples and gomphothere meat (meat from an extinct
> elephant-like animal that was widespread in the Americas 12-1.6 million
> years ago) found at Monte Verde may be signs of slower migration.

That description of gomphotheres seems sloppy.  Cuvieronius survived
in South Americ until 11,000 BP, and Wiki claims that gomphotheres
survived until about 400 AD, though some suspect an error in the
source book, 'The Marshall Illustrated Encyclopedia of Dinosaurs and
Prehistoric Animals'.

Richard.

#1953 From: alas_my_loves
Date: Sun May 11, 2008 5:29 pm
Subject: Re: Ancient Beachcombers May Have Travelled Slowly
alas_my_loves
Offline Offline
 
At my blog, there's a map, showing the site 10 miles from the bay, 50
miles from the open Pacific. My first thought was that the gomphothere
meat was more likely dried mammoth meat (jerky) from the channel
islands of California (or another island group further south) which
had been brought south by boat or raft along the Pacific coast.
Weren't there mammoths and people on the Channel isles about ~8-10ka?

Also possible that the gomphothere had died long before and been
preserved in a bog, with local dogs finding it, as happens in Alaska
and Siberia with mammoths and woolly rhinos occasionally.

http://the-arc-ddeden.blogspot.com/


--- In austric@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Kekai Manansala"
<p.manansala@...> wrote:
>
>
>   [0]
> Earliest known human settlement in the Americas raises new questions
>   [Photo of the Chilean coastline.]
>
> Chilean coastline and inland food samples raise questions about how
> migrants populated the Americas.
> Credit and Larger Version
> <http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_images.jsp?cntn_id=111530&org=NSF>
>
> May 8, 2008
>
>
> New evidence, more questions. That's the thumbnail of the first new data
> reported in 10 years from Monte Verde, the earliest known human
> settlement in the Americas.
>
> Evidence from the archaeological site in southern Chile confirms Monte
> Verde is the Americas earliest known settlement and is consistent with
> the idea that early human migration occurred along the Pacific Coast
> more than 14,000 years ago, but questions remain about just how rapidly
> that migration occurred.
>
> "If all the early American groups were following a similar pattern of
> moving back and forth between inland and coastal areas, then the
> peopling of the Americas may not have been the blitzkrieg movement to
> the south that people have presumed, but a much slower and more
> deliberate process," says Tom Dillehay, professor of anthropology at
> Vanderbilt University, Nashville, Tenn., who led the study.
>
> The journal Science publishes a report on the findings by Dillehay and
> team of international scientists in its May 9 issue.
>
> "Monte Verde is an iconic site in New World archaeology and Americanist
> archaeologists recognize its importance," says John Yellen, program
> manager at the National Science Foundation, which funded the research.
> "They also agree that Tom Dillehay has conducted an outstanding program
> of research there."
>
> Most scholars now accept that people entered North America through the
> Bering Strait land bridge before 16,000 calendar years ago. It is not
> known whether people colonized the Americas by moving along the Pacific
> coast, through interior routes or both.
>
> Researchers envision that coastal migration would have been a rapid
> process, but seaweed samples and gomphothere meat (meat from an extinct
> elephant-like animal that was widespread in the Americas 12-1.6 million
> years ago) found at Monte Verde may be signs of slower migration.
>
> Although the site is located 50 miles from the Pacific coast and 10
> miles from an inland marine bay to the south, Dillehay and the research
> team identified nine species of seaweed and marine algae found in
> hearths and other areas in the settlement. The samples were directly
> dated between 14,220 to 13,980 years ago, 1,000 years earlier than other
> reliably dated human settlements in the Americas and indicate that early
> immigrants could have moved south along the shoreline exploiting
> familiar coastal resources to get much of their food.
>
> The researchers also found a number of inland resources, including
> gomphothere meat. The finding suggests immigrants moved back and forth
> between the coast and inland areas.
>
> "It takes time to adapt to these inland resources and then come back out
> to the coast. The other coastal sites that we have found also show
> inland contacts," says Dillehay.
>
> A wide variety of food was found at the site, including an extinct
> species of llama, shellfish, vegetables and nuts. The findings make it
> more difficult to determine the rate of coastal migration in the
> Americas and the specific path of the immigrants.
>
> "We have no hard evidence that people migrated either rapidly or slowly
> along the coast," says Dillehay. "Most scholars believe that the first
> people came via the land bridge but the question is open."
>
> Evidence to support the coastal migration theory is particularly hard to
> find because sea levels at the time were about 200 feet lower than
> today. As the sea level rose, it covered most of the early coastal
> settlements. But the seaweed finding, one of the most significant,
> verifies the migrants' use of coastal resources, making it a likely
> path.
>
> "Finding seaweed wasn't a surprise, but finding five new species in the
> abundance that we found them was a surprise," said Dillehay. "The Monte
> Verdeans were really like beachcombers. The number and frequency of
> these items suggests very frequent contact with the coast, as if they
> had a tradition of exploiting coastal resources."
>
> -NSF-
>
> ---
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Paul Kekai Manansala
>   Nusantao Maritime Trade and Communication Network
> <http://sambali.blogspot.com/>
>

#1952 From: "Paul Kekai Manansala" <p.manansala@...>
Date: Fri May 9, 2008 4:42 pm
Subject: Ancient Beachcombers May Have Travelled Slowly
pinatubo.geo
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

0

Earliest known human settlement in the Americas raises new questions

Photo of the Chilean coastline.

Chilean coastline and inland food samples raise questions about how migrants populated the Americas.
Credit and Larger Version

May 8, 2008

New evidence, more questions. That's the thumbnail of the first new data reported in 10 years from Monte Verde, the earliest known human settlement in the Americas.

Evidence from the archaeological site in southern Chile confirms Monte Verde is the Americas earliest known settlement and is consistent with the idea that early human migration occurred along the Pacific Coast more than 14,000 years ago, but questions remain about just how rapidly that migration occurred.

"If all the early American groups were following a similar pattern of moving back and forth between inland and coastal areas, then the peopling of the Americas may not have been the blitzkrieg movement to the south that people have presumed, but a much slower and more deliberate process," says Tom Dillehay, professor of anthropology at Vanderbilt University, Nashville, Tenn., who led the study.

The journal Science publishes a report on the findings by Dillehay and team of international scientists in its May 9 issue.

"Monte Verde is an iconic site in New World archaeology and Americanist archaeologists recognize its importance," says John Yellen, program manager at the National Science Foundation, which funded the research. "They also agree that Tom Dillehay has conducted an outstanding program of research there."

Most scholars now accept that people entered North America through the Bering Strait land bridge before 16,000 calendar years ago. It is not known whether people colonized the Americas by moving along the Pacific coast, through interior routes or both.

Researchers envision that coastal migration would have been a rapid process, but seaweed samples and gomphothere meat (meat from an extinct elephant-like animal that was widespread in the Americas 12-1.6 million years ago) found at Monte Verde may be signs of slower migration.

Although the site is located 50 miles from the Pacific coast and 10 miles from an inland marine bay to the south, Dillehay and the research team identified nine species of seaweed and marine algae found in hearths and other areas in the settlement. The samples were directly dated between 14,220 to 13,980 years ago, 1,000 years earlier than other reliably dated human settlements in the Americas and indicate that early immigrants could have moved south along the shoreline exploiting familiar coastal resources to get much of their food.

The researchers also found a number of inland resources, including gomphothere meat. The finding suggests immigrants moved back and forth between the coast and inland areas.

"It takes time to adapt to these inland resources and then come back out to the coast. The other coastal sites that we have found also show inland contacts," says Dillehay.

A wide variety of food was found at the site, including an extinct species of llama, shellfish, vegetables and nuts. The findings make it more difficult to determine the rate of coastal migration in the Americas and the specific path of the immigrants.

"We have no hard evidence that people migrated either rapidly or slowly along the coast," says Dillehay. "Most scholars believe that the first people came via the land bridge but the question is open."

Evidence to support the coastal migration theory is particularly hard to find because sea levels at the time were about 200 feet lower than today. As the sea level rose, it covered most of the early coastal settlements. But the seaweed finding, one of the most significant, verifies the migrants' use of coastal resources, making it a likely path.

"Finding seaweed wasn't a surprise, but finding five new species in the abundance that we found them was a surprise," said Dillehay. "The Monte Verdeans were really like beachcombers. The number and frequency of these items suggests very frequent contact with the coast, as if they had a tradition of exploiting coastal resources."

-NSF-

---


Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Nusantao Maritime Trade and Communication Network 

#1951 From: Paul Kekai Manansala <p.manansala@...>
Date: Thu May 8, 2008 2:43 pm
Subject: Re: Humans in Philippines at 57,000 BP
pinatubo.geo
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Grace,

Sorry about that. I won't mention it anymore.

Regards,
Paul

grace odal <mutisalah@...> wrote:
Dear Paul Kekai,
 
This information (57,000 BP) has still to be released and clarified by the National Museum people. I heard them say it but I am not sure now whether it is BP or BC. Let me check. They might feel it is not yet the time to be released. Am just careful that thety will noit tell me I am rumor-mongering since it should be them to officially release it. Hope you understand my feeling.
 
Grace

--- On Thu, 5/8/08, Paul Kekai Manansala <p.manansala@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: Paul Kekai Manansala <p.manansala@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [austric] Humans in Philippines at 57,000 BP
To: austric@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, May 8, 2008, 12:37 AM

I just learned from Grace Odal-Devora that according to some still unpublished discoveries at the National Museum of the Philippines, human remains dated at 57,000 BP have been found at Tabon Cave, Palawan in the Philippines.

Previous to this, the earliest Hss remains in the Philippines and Southeast Asia, a tibia bone also from Tabon Cave, were dated to 49,000 kya.

Also, Grace has extended the deadline for the Alamat Conference abstracts to the end of August.  The venue has been moved to the new National Museum conference hall were renovations have just been completed.  The date is Nov. 26-18, 2008.  More info at:

http://cas.upm. edu.ph/alamat/ 

Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Nusantao Maritime Trade Network and World History 



Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.


#1950 From: grace odal <mutisalah@...>
Date: Thu May 8, 2008 4:05 am
Subject: Re: Humans in Philippines at 57,000 BP
mutisalah
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Dear Paul Kekai,

 

This information (57,000 BP) has still to be released and clarified by the National Museum people. I heard them say it but I am not sure now whether it is BP or BC. Let me check. They might feel it is not yet the time to be released. Am just careful that thety will noit tell me I am rumor-mongering since it should be them to officially release it. Hope you understand my feeling.

 

Grace

--- On Thu, 5/8/08, Paul Kekai Manansala <p.manansala@...> wrote:

From: Paul Kekai Manansala <p.manansala@...>
Subject: [austric] Humans in Philippines at 57,000 BP
To: austric@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, May 8, 2008, 12:37 AM

I just learned from Grace Odal-Devora that according to some still unpublished discoveries at the National Museum of the Philippines, human remains dated at 57,000 BP have been found at Tabon Cave, Palawan in the Philippines.

Previous to this, the earliest Hss remains in the Philippines and Southeast Asia, a tibia bone also from Tabon Cave, were dated to 49,000 kya.

Also, Grace has extended the deadline for the Alamat Conference abstracts to the end of August.  The venue has been moved to the new National Museum conference hall were renovations have just been completed.  The date is Nov. 26-18, 2008.  More info at:

http://cas.upm. edu.ph/alamat/ 

Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Nusantao Maritime Trade Network and World History 



Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

#1949 From: "Paul Kekai Manansala" <p.manansala@...>
Date: Wed May 7, 2008 4:41 pm
Subject: Re: Humans in Philippines at 57,000 BP
pinatubo.geo
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In austric@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Kekai Manansala"
<p.manansala@...> wrote:
>


>
> Also, Grace has extended the deadline for the Alamat Conference
> abstracts to the end of August.  The venue has been moved to the new
> National Museum conference hall were renovations have just been
> completed.  The date is Nov. 26-18, 2008.  More info at:
>

That should be Nov. 26 - 28, of course.


> http://cas.upm.edu.ph/alamat/ <http://cas.upm.edu.ph/alamat/>
>
> Regards,
> Paul Kekai Manansala
> Nusantao Maritime Trade Network and World History
> <http://sambali.blogspot.com/>
>

#1948 From: "Paul Kekai Manansala" <p.manansala@...>
Date: Wed May 7, 2008 4:37 pm
Subject: Humans in Philippines at 57,000 BP
pinatubo.geo
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I just learned from Grace Odal-Devora that according to some still unpublished discoveries at the National Museum of the Philippines, human remains dated at 57,000 BP have been found at Tabon Cave, Palawan in the Philippines.

Previous to this, the earliest Hss remains in the Philippines and Southeast Asia, a tibia bone also from Tabon Cave, were dated to 49,000 kya.

Also, Grace has extended the deadline for the Alamat Conference abstracts to the end of August.  The venue has been moved to the new National Museum conference hall were renovations have just been completed.  The date is Nov. 26-18, 2008.  More info at:

http://cas.upm.edu.ph/alamat/ 

Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Nusantao Maritime Trade Network and World History 


#1947 From: "Paul Kekai Manansala" <p.manansala@...>
Date: Mon May 5, 2008 7:13 pm
Subject: Subpolar settlement in South Polynesia.
pinatubo.geo
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Subpolar settlement in South Polynesia.(Research)

Antiquity,  December, 2005  by Anderson, Atholl

premiumContent provided
in partnership with
premium

Introduction

The probable extent of Polynesian migration in prehistory reaches well beyond the conventional 'Polynesian Triangle', with its vertices at Hawai'i, mainland New Zealand and Easter Island. To the west of it, there were Polynesian outliers in Melanesia and a village site on Norfolk Island (Anderson & White 2001). Circular shell fish-hooks and associated subsistence changes along the east coast of Australia in contexts dating 1500-500 BP, together with the recovery there of stone adzes of Polynesian type (Thorpe 1929), have attracted conjecture about Oceanic ...

Read the rest of this article with a Free Trial at HighBeam Research.
---
Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Nusantao Trade Network and World History 

#1946 From: "Richard Parker" <richardparker01@...>
Date: Mon May 5, 2008 1:47 pm
Subject: Austronesian Numbers
richardparker01
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I've posted a new map, with (perhaps) better graphics, showing how a
later migration of Austronesian speakers injected their new systems
and words into a long-settled previous group of An-speakers in Papua
New Guinea, at:
http://coconutstudio.com/Papua%20New%20Guinea%20x%20shaded%202.jpg

I hope the map alone demonstrates what I'm getting at - there's
definitely an 'old' Austronesian presence in that area, and a newer
one.

I have a feeling that the newer presence did not lead directly on to
Polynesia, but to a first stage of Melanesian colonisation of Vanuatu
and Fiji (about the time of Lapita) but the real throughput to
Polynesia came much later, bypassing the Melanesians as much as
possible.

regards

Richard

#1945 From: Dac Regrt <pacificarchaeology@...>
Date: Sat May 3, 2008 11:10 pm
Subject: Re: China maritime culture Austronesian ?
pacificarcha...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 


--- On Sun, 4/20/08, Dac Regrt <pacificarchaeology@...> wrote:
From: Dac Regrt <pacificarchaeology@...>
Subject: Re: [austric] China maritime culture Austronesian ?
To: austric@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, April 20, 2008, 7:11 AM


Genetic relationship of populations in China J. Y. Chua,b, W. Huangb,c, S. Q. Kuangc, J. M. Wangc, J. J. Xud, Z. T. Chua, Z. Q. Yanga, K. Q. Lina, P. Lie, M. Wuf, Z. C. Gengg, C. C. Tang, R. F. Dud, and L. Jing,h,i

a Institute of Medical Biology, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, Kunming, People's Republic of China; c Rui-Jin Hospital, Shanghai Second Medical University, Shanghai, People's Republic of China; d Institute of Genetics, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Beijing, People's Republic of China; e Department of Biology, Harbin Medical University, Harbin, People's Republic of China; f Institute of Cancer Research, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, Beijing, People's Republic of China; g Institute of Genetics, Fudan University, Shanghai, People's Republic of China; and h Human Genetics Center, University of Texas-Houston, Houston, TX 77225

Contributed by Jiazhen Tan, June 26, 1998

Despite the fact that the continuity of morphology of fossil specimens of modern humans found in China has repeatedly challenged the Out-of-Africa hypothesis, Chinese populations are underrepresented in genetic studies. Genetic profiles of 28 populations sampled in China supported the distinction between southern and northern populations, while the latter are biphyletic. Linguistic boundaries are often transgressed across language families studied, reflecting substantial gene flow between populations. Nevertheless, genetic evidence does not support an independent origin of Homo sapiens in China. The phylogeny also suggested that it is more likely that ancestors of the populations currently residing in East Asia entered from Southeast Asia.


b   J.Y.C. and W.H. contributed equally to this work.
i   To whom reprint requests may be addressed at: Human Genetics Center, University of Texas, P.O. Box 20334, Houston, TX 77225. e-mail: ljin@... .

--- On Wed, 4/2/08, alas_my_loves <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
From: alas_my_loves <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [austric] China maritime culture Austronesian ?
To: austric@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, April 2, 2008, 4:59 PM

http://www.voanews.com/english/AmericanLife/2008-03-31-voa31.cfm
My thought was that south China was settled from west or south, while
north China was from north, all previously via Lake Baikal 35ka-40ka.
Oh that study was done by some great resources in the field of Anthropology
The News article you sent is misleading and more journalism than even archaeology
South East Asia (which includes The Indonesian Region ) that is 40-50kya is home of 
Polynesians along with the rest of China and ALL of east Asia via North China
the route expansions went from South East to North to North East to all of East Asia
 
JUST ONE STUDY BELOW:
Jin HJ, Kwak KD, Hammer MF, Nakahori Y, Shinka T, Lee JW, Jin F, Jia X, Tyler-Smith C, Kim W.

Department of Biological Sciences, Dankook University, 330-714 Cheonan, Korea.

Y-chromosomal DNA haplogroups and their implications 
for the dual origins of the Koreans
 
We have analyzed eight Y-chromosomal binary markers (YAP, RPS4Y(711), M9, M175, LINE1, SRY(+465), 47z, and M95) 
and three Y-STR markers (DYS390, DYS391, and DYS393) in 
738 males from 11 ethnic groups in east Asia in order to 
study the male lineage history of Korea. Haplogroup DE-YAP 
was found at a high frequency only in Japan but was also 
present at low frequencies in northeast Asia, 
including 2.5% in Korea, suggesting a
northern origin for 
these chromosomes. Haplogroup C-RPS4Y(711) was present in 
Korea and Manchuria at moderate frequencies: higher than in 
populations from southeast Asia, but lower than those in the 
northeast, which may imply a northern Asian expansion of these 
lineages, perhaps from Mongolia or Siberia. 
The major Y-chromosomal expansions in east Asia were those 
of haplogroup O-M175 (and its sublineages). 
This haplogroup is likely to have originated in southern
 east Asia and subsequently expanded to all of east Asia.
 The moderate frequency of one sublineage in the Koreans, 
haplogroup O-LINE1 (12.5%), could be a result of interaction 
with Chinese populations. The age of another sublineage,
 haplogroup O-SRY(+465), and Y-STR haplotype diversity provide
 evidence for relatively recent male migration,
originally 
from China, through Korea into Japan. In conclusion, 
the distribution pattern of Y-chromosomal haplogroups
 reveals the complex origin of the Koreans, resulting 
from genetic contributions involving the northern Asian 
settlement and range expansions mostly from 
southern-to-northern China.
 
 
The article you sent isn't incorrect so to say
but again misleading as to location and origin of polynesian
it would be in fact China's origins have relations with ancient Polynesians
 
 
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#1944 From: "Paul Kekai Manansala" <p.manansala@...>
Date: Fri May 2, 2008 10:58 pm
Subject: First evidence of shell fish-hook technology in the Gulf
pinatubo.geo
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First evidence of shell fish-hook technology in the Gulf

Authors: Méry, Sophie1; Charpentier, Vincent1; Beech, Mark2

Source: Arabian archaeology and epigraphy, Volume 19, Number 1, May 2008 , pp. 15-21(7)

Publisher: Blackwell Publishing

Abstract:

The technology of shell fish-hooks and line fishing is well attested in the coastal areas of the Indian Ocean during the Neolithic period (fifth-fourth millennium BC). Their presence in the coastal area of the Arabian Gulf is now confirmed by new findings from Akab (Umm al-Qaiwain) and Shimal (Ra's al-Khaimah) in the United Arab Emirates.
---

Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Nusantao Maritime Trade Network and World History 

#1943 From: alas_my_loves
Date: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:40 pm
Subject: OT: waterside orang utans at Borneo
alas_my_loves
Offline Offline
 
#1942 From: alas_my_loves
Date: Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:04 am
Subject: Re: Malay and Kapampangan cognates
alas_my_loves
Offline Offline
 
--- In austric@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Parker" <richardparker01@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In austric@yahoogroups.com, alas_my_loves <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~camiling/malay.html
> >
> > More than I'd thought.
> >
> This is not as impressive a list of cognates as it seems, and
> doesn't, on its own, prove a direct connection between Malay and
> Kapampangan.
>
> - Many of the words are basic Austronesian, possibly shared by some
> 1200 other An languages.
>
> - Others, such as bandera, barnis, biola, bistek, for example, are
> loanwords from Spanish or Portuguese.
>
> Don't be over-impressed with it.
>
> regards
>
> Richard
>
Right Richard, just thought I'd pass it along.
DDeden

#1941 From: Dac Regrt <pacificarchaeology@...>
Date: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:11 am
Subject: Re: China maritime culture Austronesian ?
pacificarcha...
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Genetic relationship of populations in China J. Y. Chua,b, W. Huangb,c, S. Q. Kuangc, J. M. Wangc, J. J. Xud, Z. T. Chua, Z. Q. Yanga, K. Q. Lina, P. Lie, M. Wuf, Z. C. Gengg, C. C. Tang, R. F. Dud, and L. Jing,h,i

a Institute of Medical Biology, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, Kunming, People's Republic of China; c Rui-Jin Hospital, Shanghai Second Medical University, Shanghai, People's Republic of China; d Institute of Genetics, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Beijing, People's Republic of China; e Department of Biology, Harbin Medical University, Harbin, People's Republic of China; f Institute of Cancer Research, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, Beijing, People's Republic of China; g Institute of Genetics, Fudan University, Shanghai, People's Republic of China; and h Human Genetics Center, University of Texas-Houston, Houston, TX 77225

Contributed by Jiazhen Tan, June 26, 1998

Despite the fact that the continuity of morphology of fossil specimens of modern humans found in China has repeatedly challenged the Out-of-Africa hypothesis, Chinese populations are underrepresented in genetic studies. Genetic profiles of 28 populations sampled in China supported the distinction between southern and northern populations, while the latter are biphyletic. Linguistic boundaries are often transgressed across language families studied, reflecting substantial gene flow between populations. Nevertheless, genetic evidence does not support an independent origin of Homo sapiens in China. The phylogeny also suggested that it is more likely that ancestors of the populations currently residing in East Asia entered from Southeast Asia.


b   J.Y.C. and W.H. contributed equally to this work.
i   To whom reprint requests may be addressed at: Human Genetics Center, University of Texas, P.O. Box 20334, Houston, TX 77225. e-mail: ljin@... .

--- On Wed, 4/2/08, alas_my_loves <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
From: alas_my_loves <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [austric] China maritime culture Austronesian ?
To: austric@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, April 2, 2008, 4:59 PM

http://www.voanews.com/english/AmericanLife/2008-03-31-voa31.cfm
My thought was that south China was settled from west or south, while
north China was from north, all previously via Lake Baikal 35ka-40ka.
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#1940 From: "Paul Kekai Manansala" <p.manansala@...>
Date: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:45 pm
Subject: Re: Malay and Kapampangan cognates
pinatubo.geo
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Yes, I don't believe there is a direct linguistic link except as distant cousins with Malay.

The Kapampangan people did have trade relationships with Malay and other kingdoms, and probably some people are descended at least partly from Malays.  

However, to hear some of my fellow kabalen talk, you would think we were just another Malay kingdom.  More recently there is a theory out there that Kapampangans descend from the refugees, royal of course, of the Sung Dynasty after the Mongol invasion.  Again, the evidence doesn't support the theory in my view.

Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Nusantao Maritime Trade Network and World History 



--- In austric@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Parker" <richardparker01@...> wrote:
>
> --- In austric@yahoogroups.com, alas_my_loves <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~camiling/malay.html
> >
> > More than I'd thought.
> >
> This is not as impressive a list of cognates as it seems, and
> doesn't, on its own, prove a direct connection between Malay and
> Kapampangan.
>
> - Many of the words are basic Austronesian, possibly shared by some
> 1200 other An languages.
>
> - Others, such as bandera, barnis, biola, bistek, for example, are
> loanwords from Spanish or Portuguese.
>
> Don't be over-impressed with it.
>
> regards
>
> Richard
>


#1939 From: "Richard Parker" <richardparker01@...>
Date: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:18 pm
Subject: Re: Malay and Kapampangan cognates
richardparker01
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In austric@yahoogroups.com, alas_my_loves <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~camiling/malay.html
>
> More than I'd thought.
>
This is not as impressive a list of cognates as it seems, and
doesn't, on its own, prove a direct connection between Malay and
Kapampangan.

- Many of the words are basic Austronesian, possibly shared by some
1200 other An languages.

- Others, such as bandera, barnis, biola, bistek, for example, are
loanwords from Spanish or Portuguese.

Don't be over-impressed with it.

regards

Richard

#1938 From: alas_my_loves
Date: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:12 am
Subject: Malay and Kapampangan cognates
alas_my_loves
Offline Offline
 
#1937 From: "Paul Kekai Manansala" <p.manansala@...>
Date: Sat Apr 5, 2008 9:20 pm
Subject: Re: China maritime culture Austronesian ?
pinatubo.geo
Offline Offline
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--- In austric@yahoogroups.com, "chesahbinu" <chesahbinu@...> wrote:
>
> South China would have been settled prehistorically from those living near stream mouths
> and and the ocean strand as it in when the Sunda Shelf, or the now submerged coast of
> South China was exposed under the previous glaciation.  Wilhelm Solheim, my mentor,
> talks about this as does Oppenheimer.
>

A lot of people forget that Sundaland still existed when eastern Asia was first inhabited.

So much of today's coast has no relevance on the coast some 50,000 years ago when sea levels were about 60 meters lower than present levels. The indications are that these people were still coastal-huggers and probably reached Australia before the hitting the coastal regions of South China.

Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Nusantao Maritime Trade Network and World History 


#1936 From: "chesahbinu" <chesahbinu@...>
Date: Sat Apr 5, 2008 7:42 pm
Subject: Re: China maritime culture Austronesian ?
chesahbinu
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South China would have been settled prehistorically from those living near
stream mouths
and and the ocean strand as it in when the Sunda Shelf, or the now submerged
coast of
South China was exposed under the previous glaciation.  Wilhelm Solheim, my
mentor,
talks about this as does Oppenheimer.

My speciality is the Champa culture region.  Many years ago for my 1072 M.A.
thesis,
reconstructing the economy of ancient Champa, I found Wolfram Eberhard's 1968
The
local cultures of south and east China, Trans. Alide Eberhard. Leiden: E. J.
Brill. (Rev. ed. of
Lokalkulturen im alten China, vol. 2, 1943) to contain many hints to South
China's
maritime origins, and by inference, the prehistory of the Cham culture region,
and the Sa
Huynh culture.

In recent years, Tianlong Jiao, the new chairman of Bishop Museum's Department
of
Anthropology, has contributed to a new understanding of southeast China's
Nusantarian
maritime origins.
I will need to get his recent The Neolithic of Southeast China, Cambria Press:
2007.

This is from the Bishop Museum 2007 Annual Report, and describes a recent
exhibit there.

Lost Maritime Cultures: China and the Pacific
February 24, 2007 – April 15, 2007
The extraordinary archaeological discoveries in southeast China and the shared
history
between prehistoric China and the Pacific were revealed in this
exhibition. The maritime civilizations that flourished from 7,000–3,000 years
ago finally
came to light when modern archaeology started in China about
half a century ago.  Visitors discovered the rare artifacts from the Hemudu
Culture and
other prehistoric seafaring societies in modern Zhejiang and Fujian Provinces,
and experienced the splendor of the Liangzhu Culture and the Bronze Age cultures
of
southeast China. It is believed that some of these "lost" maritime civilizations
are the
ultimate ancestral
cultures of the Austronesians whose descendants eventually colonized most of the
Pacific
islands, reaching as far as Hawai`i, New Zealand, and Easter Island around 1,000
years
ago.

David Griffiths Sox
Fairfield, CA

#1935 From: alas_my_loves
Date: Thu Apr 3, 2008 6:47 pm
Subject: Re: China maritime culture Austronesian ?
alas_my_loves
Offline Offline
 
I don't know more.

I recall that a ruminant (reindeer?) shoulder blade was used as a
paddle (called 'lap'?) somewhere in eastern Europe I think.

There was a recent article on a 12ka rice grain, in the Yangtze
valley, it may have been wild rice (they didn't give the name indica
or sativa).

(wiki) The Hemudu people lived in long, stilt houses.

The Hemudu culture is one of the earliest cultures to cultivate rice.
Most of the artifacts discovered at Hemudu consist of animal bones,
exemplified by hoes made of shoulder bones used for cultivating rice.

The culture also produced lacquer wood. The remains of various plants,
including water caltrop, Nelumbo nucifera, acorns, beans, Gorgon
euryale and bottle gourd, were found at Hemudu. The Hemudu people
likely domesticated pigs, water buffalo and dogs. The people at Hemudu
also fished and hunted, as evidence by the remains of bone harpoons
and bows and arrowheads. Music instruments, such as bone whistles and
wooden drums, were also found at Hemudu. The culture produced a thick,
porous pottery
http://www.chinamuseums.com/hemudu_site.htm
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/archaeology/sites/asia/hemudu.html




--- In austric@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Kekai Manansala"
<p.manansala@...> wrote:
>
> --- In austric@yahoogroups.com, alas_my_loves <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > http://www.voanews.com/english/AmericanLife/2008-03-31-voa31.cfm
> >
> > My thought was that south China was settled from west or south, while
> > north China was from north, all previously via Lake Baikal 35ka-40ka.
> >
>
> I wonder if it was just the paddle that was found, or if there was any
> evidence of sailing equipment.
>
> Regards,
> Paul Kekai Manansala
> Nusantao Maritime Trade Network and World History
> <http://sambali.blogspot.com/>
>

#1934 From: "Paul Kekai Manansala" <p.manansala@...>
Date: Thu Apr 3, 2008 2:37 pm
Subject: Re: China maritime culture Austronesian ?
pinatubo.geo
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In austric@yahoogroups.com, alas_my_loves <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.voanews.com/english/AmericanLife/2008-03-31-voa31.cfm
>
> My thought was that south China was settled from west or south, while
> north China was from north, all previously via Lake Baikal 35ka-40ka.
>

I wonder if it was just the paddle that was found, or if there was any evidence of sailing equipment.

Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Nusantao Maritime Trade Network and World History 

#1933 From: alas_my_loves
Date: Wed Apr 2, 2008 4:59 pm
Subject: China maritime culture Austronesian ?
alas_my_loves
Offline Offline
 
http://www.voanews.com/english/AmericanLife/2008-03-31-voa31.cfm

My thought was that south China was settled from west or south, while
north China was from north, all previously via Lake Baikal 35ka-40ka.

#1932 From: "Paul Kekai Manansala" <p.manansala@...>
Date: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:55 pm
Subject: Re: Parasites suggest separate trans-oceanic or coastal migration to Americas
pinatubo.geo
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--- In austric@yahoogroups.com, alas_my_loves <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> I wonder if these parasites could have survived a faster voyage across
> the Aleutian archipelago by boat or winter ice trek.
>
>


Just going from memory, and maybe Robin can clarify, but these
parasites  don't exist in Siberia or Alaska/northern Canada nor have
they ever apparently according to the studies.  They have a relatively
short life cycle.  I believe with nematodes the cycle is a few weeks.
  Also there are some areas around Beringia that are always too cold
for these parasites.  Not sure if that was the case during the Warm
Maritime Phase when the Northwest Passage was free of ice.

So some group would have had to have traveled from temperate regions
of Asia to warmer regions of the Americas within the span of that life
cycle.  That would pretty much rule out a land journey, except
possibly during the Warm Maritime Phase.

Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Quests of the Dragon and Bird Clan
http://sambali.blogspot.com/

#1931 From: alas_my_loves
Date: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:11 pm
Subject: Re: Parasites suggest separate trans-oceanic or coastal migration to Americas
alas_my_loves
Offline Offline
 
I wonder if these parasites could have survived a faster voyage across
the Aleutian archipelago by boat or winter ice trek.

At the moment, I'm considering that the ancestors of the Native
Americans and the East Asians lived at hot springs surrounding Lake
Baikal between 50ka and 30ka, with migratory dispersals in different
directions. A potential tie-in lies with wild Sus scrofa pigs that
live in the forests around Baikal today, and possible partial
domestication of the dingo/Papuan singing dog/jindo/Carolina dog there
as part of the prehistoric culture. I don't know if helminth hookworms
have an association with these dogs, or if they are limited to
infecting people.

I just read articles at HENRY (via anthropology.net) regarding the
sweet potato westward migration.
DDeden

--- In austric@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Kekai Manansala"
<p.manansala@...> wrote:
>
> Trends Parasitol. 2008 Mar;24(3):112-5. Epub  2008 Feb 11. [Click here
> to read]
>
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/fref.fcgi?PrId=3048&itool=Abst\
>
ractPlus-def&uid=18262843&db=pubmed&url=http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/r\
> etrieve/pii/S1471-4922%2808%2900032-9>  Links      Parasites as probes
> for prehistoric human migrations?   Araujo A
>
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22A\
>
raujo%20A%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_Resul\
> tsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus> , Reinhard KJ
>
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22R\
>
einhard%20KJ%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_Re\
> sultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus> , Ferreira LF
>
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22F\
>
erreira%20LF%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_Re\
> sultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus> , Gardner SL
>
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22G\
>
ardner%20SL%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_Res\
> ultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus> .
> Fundação Oswaldo Cruz/Escola Nacional de Saude Publica; Rua Leopoldo
> Bulhoes 1480, Rio de Janeiro 2104-210, RJ, Brazil.
>
> Host-specific parasites of humans are used to track ancient migrations.
> Based on archaeoparasitology, it is clear that humans entered the New
> World at least twice in ancient times. The archaeoparasitology of some
> intestinal parasites in the New World points to migration routes other
> than the Bering Land Bridge. Helminths have been found in mummies and
> coprolites in North and South America. Hookworms (Necator and
> Ancylostoma), whipworms (Trichuris trichiura) and other helminths
> require specific conditions for life-cycle completion. They could not
> survive in the cold climate of the northern region of the Americas.
> Therefore, humans would have lost some intestinal parasites while
> crossing Beringia. Evidence is provided here from published data of
> pre-Columbian sites for the peopling of the Americas through
> trans-oceanic or coastal migrations.
> ---Regards,
> Paul Kekai Manansala
> Nusantao Maritime Trade Network and World History
> <http://sambali.blogspot.com/>
>

#1930 From: "Paul Kekai Manansala" <p.manansala@...>
Date: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:22 pm
Subject: Parasites suggest separate trans-oceanic or coastal migration to Americas
pinatubo.geo
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Trends Parasitol. 2008 Mar;24(3):112-5. Epub 2008 Feb 11.Click here to read Links

Parasites as probes for prehistoric human migrations?

Fundação Oswaldo Cruz/Escola Nacional de Saude Publica; Rua Leopoldo Bulhoes 1480, Rio de Janeiro 2104-210, RJ, Brazil.

Host-specific parasites of humans are used to track ancient migrations. Based on archaeoparasitology, it is clear that humans entered the New World at least twice in ancient times. The archaeoparasitology of some intestinal parasites in the New World points to migration routes other than the Bering Land Bridge. Helminths have been found in mummies and coprolites in North and South America. Hookworms (Necator and Ancylostoma), whipworms (Trichuris trichiura) and other helminths require specific conditions for life-cycle completion. They could not survive in the cold climate of the northern region of the Americas. Therefore, humans would have lost some intestinal parasites while crossing Beringia. Evidence is provided here from published data of pre-Columbian sites for the peopling of the Americas through trans-oceanic or coastal migrations.

---
Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Nusantao Maritime Trade Network and World History 

#1929 From: "Paul Kekai Manansala" <p.manansala@...>
Date: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:03 pm
Subject: Climate Change and Post-Glacial Human Dispersals in Southeast Asia
pinatubo.geo
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Mol Biol Evol. 2008 Mar 21 [Epub ahead of print]

Climate Change and Post-Glacial Human Dispersals in Southeast Asia.

Institute of Integrative and Comparative Biology, Faculty of Biological Sciences, University of Leeds, Leeds, UK.

Modern humans have been living in Island Southeast Asia (ISEA) for at least 50,000 years. Largely because of the influence of linguistic studies, however, which have a shallow time depth, the attention of archaeologists and geneticists has usually been focused on the last 6000 years - in particular, on a proposed Neolithic dispersal from China and Taiwan. Here we use complete mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) genome sequencing to spotlight some earlier processes that clearly had a major role in the demographic history of the region but have hitherto been unrecognised. We show that haplogroup E, an important component of mtDNA diversity in the region, evolved in situ over the last 35,000 years and expanded dramatically throughout ISEA around the beginning of the Holocene, at the time when the ancient continent of Sundaland was being broken up into the present-day archipelago by rising sea levels. It reached Taiwan and Near Oceania more recently, within the last approximately 8000 years. This suggests that global warming and sea-level rises at the end of the Ice Age, 15,000-7000 years ago, were the main forces shaping modern human diversity in the region.

---
Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Nusantao Maritime Trade Network and World History 

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