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#62710 From: "<deinx nxtxr>" <deinx.nxtxr@...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 2010 8:40 pm
Subject: Re: The Sambahsa thread
deinx.nxtxr@...
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Jens Wilkinson wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:46 PM, <deinx nxtxr> <deinx.nxtxr@...>
wrote:
>>> I know there's a difference, but don't understand why it's important
>>> to express that difference. Is there ever really a need to distinguish
>>> between concentrated looking versus passive seeing?
>>>
>> This one though is very distinction having little to do with passive or
>> active.  "See" and "hear" are sensory but "look" and "listen" are mental
>> processes.  In fact they could all be combined into a word for "mind" or
>> "pay attention to".
>>
>
> Even in English, though, there are cases where it becomes ambiguous,
> or rather where you can use either. You can say both "I'm going to go
> see that painting" and "I'm going to go look at that painting." With
> "see" we are really meaning "look at," aren't we? Or maybe we are both
> seeing and looking at it?

There is overlap.  You can't look without seeing, but you can see
without looking.  If I say "look" or "listen" though, what I'm really
doing is trying to call your attention to something, using different
words to further direct you to which sense you'll need.

#62709 From: "<deinx nxtxr>" <deinx.nxtxr@...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 2010 8:34 pm
Subject: Re: [Fwd: World Loanword Database]
deinx.nxtxr@...
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Kjell Rehnstršöm wrote:
> <deinx nxtxr> skrev:
>> From CONLANG
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> From: Roger Mills <...>
>>
>> Here's something that might be of interest, posted today on Cybalist.
>>
>> Looking at Indonesian, I'm a little bit skeptical; they claim loan
>> status for several words that can be regularly derived from Proto
>> Malayo-Polynesian.... And several (like 'kartu pos' = postcard) are
>> called "probably not borrowed"-- but both terms are given elsewhere as
>> "clearly borrowed"-- possibly they mean that it's a natively formed
>> compound/calque, hence not directly borrowed??  I don't know :-((((
>>
> Höhö! Perhaps it is a loan from Esperanto "poŝtokarto"! Er, on a more
> serious note. Doesn't Dutch have something like German Post and Karte?
> Given, of course, postcard is the intended word.

Most European language have variants of "post" (poste, posta, poshta,
pochta, ...) and "card" (carte, carta, karte, karta, ...)  ISTR Dutch
being soemthing like "postkaartje"

#62708 From: "<deinx nxtxr>" <deinx.nxtxr@...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 2010 8:21 pm
Subject: Re: Bribe
deinx.nxtxr@...
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lingwadeplaneta wrote:
> --- In auxlang@yahoogroups.com, Zeinelabidin Elhassi <zar_di_albadino@...>
wrote:
>> bagsis       tip                            Tibetan,Arabic,Malay
>
> Also Turkish bahshish. Is it wrong to use it also for "bribe"?

I heard "bakshish" used throughout S. Asia, the Middle East and parts of
the Mediterranean so yes, it's fairly well known but it's considered
customary in those cultures, so it's not really pejorative like
"bribery" is.

FWIW: Deini uses "bakssiss" [bakSiS] but it's also extended to mean
"tip", which is really type of bribery.

#62707 From: lingwadeplaneta <lingwadeplaneta@...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 2010 8:02 pm
Subject: Re: The Sambahsa thread
lingwadeplaneta@...
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--- In auxlang@yahoogroups.com, steve rice <ansric@...> wrote:
>
> --- On Mon, 2/8/10, lingwadeplaneta <lingwadeplaneta@...> wrote:
>
> > Yes there is. Often I am looking wihout seeing, although
> > sometimes I see even without looking. How will you translate
> > this sentence if you have only one verb?
>
> Ofen mi trayen ta si witaut sien

I got it as "Often I try to see without looking", i.e. try to see without using
eyes (there are some exercises like that for actors).

Sure one can use "can see" for "see" and "try to see" for "look", it just means
that one will often use two verbs instead of one.

#62706 From: steve rice <ansric@...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 2010 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: The Sambahsa thread
ansric@...
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--- On Mon, 2/8/10, lingwadeplaneta <lingwadeplaneta@...> wrote:

> Yes there is. Often I am looking wihout seeing, although
> sometimes I see even without looking. How will you translate
> this sentence if you have only one verb?

Ofen mi trayen ta si witaut sien, bat ada taim mi si witaut trayen [sien].

So there!

Steve

#62705 From: Olivier Simon <cafaristeir@...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 2010 5:09 pm
Subject: Re: The Sambahsa thread
cafaristeir@...
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And I hope you like my
>addition.
>
>
Of course, we like it !
>
>had        borderline,boundary        Arabic,Oriya,Malay,Gujarati
>bagsis       tip                            Tibetan,Arabic,Malay
Indeed, an international word; French has "bakchich". I think it became
international thanks to the practice of the Ottoman officials to be paid
a "gracious" bribe everytime one wanted to obtain something from them.
At the beginning, I suppose this word was not linked to corruption. Another
widespread word pertaining to corruption is "rushwat".


>cabza      hilt of a sword                Tibetan,Arabic
>caber        grave                       Tibetan,Arabic,Malay
>dauat        inkstand                   Pahari,Arabic,Malay
>galti        to make a mistake        Pahari,Arabic,Malay
>varis         heir                          Hindi,Arabic
>zabah      to slaughter                 Hindi,Arabic
>zalam       to tyrannize                Arabic,Hindi,Harari
>saraf       to change money           Amharic,Arabic
I have "saraf" as "money-changer"
>daim         always                      Harari,Arabic,Malay
In sambahsa, "dayim" means "constantly".
>wasia       last will                      Harari,Arabic,Malay
>camus      dictionary                   Somali,Arabic
"kamus" = "rpertoire" in Sambahsa. This word comes from Old
Greek "okeanos".
>midad        ink                           Somali,Arabic
>adat         habit                         Bengali,Arabic,Malay
"Adet" in Sambahsa
>seter    white veil of muslim women        Gurage,Arabic
>murjan      red coral                    Hausa,Arabic,Malay
>lacab         nickname                  Hausa,Arabic,Malay
"Lakab" in Sambahsa
>hisab      account, calculations     Turkish , Urdu , Arabic
"Hissab" in Sambahsa

Olivier
http://sambahsa.pbworks.com/

#62704 From: Olivier Simon <cafaristeir@...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 2010 4:58 pm
Subject: Re: The Sambahsa thread
cafaristeir@...
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Sellamat Zein !

That's a great job ! Shukran !

>hadar          townsman                    Berber,Arabic
>jamaha       a group of notables         Berber,Arabic
>rahil           nomadic migration          Berber,Arabic
>tagbilt        tribe                            Berber,Arabic
>urf             customary tribal law       Berber,Arabic
>wazir          minister                       Hausa,Arabic,Malay
Of course, this is the origin of "vizir" in French (I don't remember if this
word
comes from Persian)
>sahel          shore                           Hausa,Arabic
>tamir          date                            Somali,Arabic
>ruh             soul                            Swahili,Arabic
>cafan          shourd                        Hausa,Arabic,Malay
Sambahsa has "kafan" too.
>majlis          council chamber            Hausa,Arabic,Malay
And it is "salle des assembles" in Sambahsa !
>mizan          scale                          Hausa,Arabic,Malay
>azin            to permit                     Hausa,Arabic,Malay
>nia             to intend                      Hausa,Arabic,Malay
>asas            basis                          Hausa,Arabic,Malay
>bab           chapter of a book           Hausa,Arabic,Malay
>fard           obligatory duty               Hausa,Arabic,Malay
>hadir          to be present                 Arabic,Malay
>haiba         dignified appearance        Hausa,Arabic,Malay
>hila           craftiness                       Hausa,Arabic,Malay
Sambahsa has it too.
>harf          letter of the alphabet       Hausa,Arabic,Malay
Sambahsa has "harif" for "caractre, lettre"
>cafas          cage                             Spanish,Arabic
Remember German "Kfig". I suspect this word is older than Arabic.
>anoria        irrigation wheels               Spanish,Arabic
In French, it is "noria".
>arasif         wharf                            Spanish,Arabic
>soteha       flat roof                         Spanish,Arabic
>wacida        match "fire"                   Spanish,Arabic
>mud            a measure for grain         Spanish,Arabic
French has "muid" from Latin "modius" = "measure". Is this a new case
of "mirror" word ?

Olivier
http://sambahsa.pbworks.com/

#62703 From: "Bruce R. Gilson" <brg1942@...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 2010 4:35 pm
Subject: NL online
brg1942@...
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I posted (although it seems not to have taken!) the following to the Novial discussion group. It may be of interest to this group as well. Please note that since then I have added the rest of the A-P part and begun on the Q-Y part; up to R has been posted as of this moment.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bruce R. Gilson <brg1942@...>
Date: Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:36 AM
Subject: NL online
To: novial-discussion@yahoogroups.com


Some time ago I noted that Don Blaheta's online version of the NL had some problems: with some web browsers, the accented letters turned into Chinese characters, and there are a few typos which, since Don is no longer actively involved, won't get fixed. At the time I proposed to mae a leaned up copy, and I did so as a set of Google documents, made public so anyone could access it. At the time someonr told me they had already done the latter part of the alphabet, and suggested I just do A-to-P.
I don't know what happened to the Q-to-Y part, but I think it would be better to have the wholedictionary in one place, so I intend to complete it now. I also intend to do some further transformations to remedy two problems with the NL as originally designed:
  1. The very abbreviated format makes automated searching difficult. This may have been necessary in 1930 to keep the publishing coat down (and with no computers and search engines in the world!) but it needs to be remedied now.
  2. The dictionary only works in one direction: Novial to English/French/German. This means that to go the other way one needs to do a search to find the English (say) and find the page that has it. And coupled with the previous point, this can be an impossible task.
At first I will have only the NL in the original form, but the other files to remedy these problems will follow. I have started with Don's pages, and A to P (as I said) were put up as Google docs that were publicly accessible. (The rest are already in Google doc form, but not accessible.) I spent a lot of time on a-to-P getting the format right, but in the process I introduced some typographical errors, and I'm now fixing these, as far as I can spot them.
I have now relocated the site, taking it out of Google document form so I have a bit more control of the HTML. The online NL is now available on my ViewsOfLanguage site -- so far only partially, but with the rest to come:
A through L is currently available: The dictionary can be reached at http://ViewsOfLanguage.host56.com/novial/lexike/ and specific letters can be reached at (e. g.) http://ViewsOfLanguage.host56.com/novial/lexike/a.html .
M through P will be up soom. I am checking for typos, and witthin a day or so they should be ready.
Q through Y will require more time. I need to fix up the formatting, as this was not donein the Google docs. They will be put up as I finish.
You are invited to look at what is there now, and if you spot any typos I missed, please let me know! I know I'm not perfect.

--

Bruce R. Gilson
brg1942@...





--

Bruce R. Gilson
brg1942@...



#62702 From: lingwadeplaneta <lingwadeplaneta@...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 2010 2:02 pm
Subject: Bribe
lingwadeplaneta@...
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--- In auxlang@yahoogroups.com, Zeinelabidin Elhassi <zar_di_albadino@...>
wrote:
>
> bagsis       tip                            Tibetan,Arabic,Malay

Also Turkish bahshish. Is it wrong to use it also for "bribe"?

#62701 From: James Chandler <idojc@...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 2010 8:44 am
Subject: Re: BBC radio program on constructed languages (fwd)
idojc@...
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I suppose it's good publicity for auxlangs, but this article is linguistically
dubious.  For example:

Kairdiff  -- is this how you say "Cardiff" in Esperanto??

Placegas al mi  -- missing hat

Kaaardifa Blaaazona Paaarko  -- why all the triple a's??

Cu ni  -- missing hat

Apud kie trovigas  -- missing hat

mi faros gin nun  -- missing hat

This really doesn't show Esp in its best light.  What a shame all those
charmingly quirky daft hats could not be displayed.

And another thing: the testimony from the band The Automatic sounds like a
scripted propaganda piece written by Espists.  Lead singers in bands don't talk
like that.  Or if they do, then I certainly don't want to hear any of their
music..

#62700 From: James Chandler <idojc@...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 2010 8:30 am
Subject: FW: Enretigesis plusa numeri anciena di "Cosmoglotta"
idojc@...
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Recente, enretigesis plusa numeri anciena dil revuo "Cosmoglotta, tote skribita
en Occidental/Interlingue: 4 "Supplement" di 1927, ed omna numeri di 1928.

http://www.interlingue.org/cmg/index.html

(Partaka)

#62699 From: Kjell Rehnstršöm <cellus@...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 2010 4:16 am
Subject: Re: [Fwd: World Loanword Database]
cellus@...
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<deinx nxtxr> skrev:
> From CONLANG
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> From: Roger Mills <...>
>
> Here's something that might be of interest, posted today on Cybalist.
>
> Looking at Indonesian, I'm a little bit skeptical; they claim loan
> status for several words that can be regularly derived from Proto
> Malayo-Polynesian.... And several (like 'kartu pos' = postcard) are
> called "probably not borrowed"-- but both terms are given elsewhere as
> "clearly borrowed"-- possibly they mean that it's a natively formed
> compound/calque, hence not directly borrowed??  I don't know :-((((
>
Höhö! Perhaps it is a loan from Esperanto "poŝtokarto"! Er, on a more
serious note. Doesn't Dutch have something like German Post and Karte?
Given, of course, postcard is the intended word.

Kjell R

#62698 From: Jens Wilkinson <jenswilkinson@...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 2010 3:24 am
Subject: Re: The Sambahsa thread
jenswilkinson@...
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On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:46 PM, <deinx nxtxr> <deinx.nxtxr@...> wrote:
>>>
>>
>> I know there's a difference, but don't understand why it's important
>> to express that difference. Is there ever really a need to distinguish
>> between concentrated looking versus passive seeing?
>>
>
> This one though is very distinction having little to do with passive or
> active. "See" and "hear" are sensory but "look" and "listen" are mental
> processes. In fact they could all be combined into a word for "mind" or
> "pay attention to".
>

Even in English, though, there are cases where it becomes ambiguous,
or rather where you can use either. You can say both "I'm going to go
see that painting" and "I'm going to go look at that painting." With
"see" we are really meaning "look at," aren't we? Or maybe we are both
seeing and looking at it?

--
Jens Wilkinson
Neo Patwa (patwa.pbwiki.com)

#62697 From: Jens Wilkinson <jenswilkinson@...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 2010 3:20 am
Subject: Re: The Sambahsa thread
jenswilkinson@...
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On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 7:31 PM, MacLeod Dave <mithradates@...> wrote:
>>
>> Yes there is. Often I am looking wihout seeing, although sometimes I see even
without looking. How will you translate this sentence if you have only one verb?
>
> Let's expand on this: how does one translate Korean hyeong (older
> brother for a man)? In Korean it's very important to know whether
> someone is your hyeong or dongsaeng (younger) or donggap (same age).
> Does a Korean have to say "older brother of a man" each and every
> time?
>

Presumably, yes, although I think it could easily be left out once the
fact is clear. One thing that is important to remember, though, is
that Koreans will not the IAL to communicate with other Koreans, they
will use Koreans. So it's only in the context of international
communications that the distinction will become a bit more
"mendokusai" than normal. There are lots of cultures (maybe Korean is
among them) where there are different words for maternal and paternal
grandparents, for example. Chinese is definitely a case like that. But
when Chinese are communicating with other Chinese, they will use
Chinese language so it won't be much of a burden that when they are
communicating in an IAL, they will have to specify. Even today, when
speaking in English they have to do it because we don't have the
distinction. Japanese have to say "my older brother" or "younger
brother" in English.

Now, if the IAL becomes a universal L1, then the situation is
completely different. Then I think you would need all these different
terms.


--
Jens Wilkinson
Neo Patwa (patwa.pbwiki.com)

#62696 From: Larry Sulky <larrysulky@...>
Date: Tue Feb 9, 2010 12:32 am
Subject: Re: The Sambahsa thread
larrysulky@...
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On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:46 AM, <deinx nxtxr> <deinx.nxtxr@...> wrote:
Jens Wilkinson wrote:
On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 11:34 PM, <deinx nxtxr> <deinx.nxtxr@...> wrote:


There is still a big difference because "look" and "listen" specifically
involve a focus of attention on a sight or sound. Maybe there could be a
word simply for the act of mental focus that covers all of these without
linking it to particular sense.


I know there's a difference, but don't understand why it's important
to express that difference. Is there ever really a need to distinguish
between concentrated looking versus passive seeing?


This one though is very distinction having little to do with passive or active. "See" and "hear" are sensory but "look" and "listen" are mental processes. In fact they could all be combined into a word for "mind" or "pay attention to".

But note how people interpret these words differently, even in this thread:

casual: "I saw a dog."
with intent: "I saw a dog but I didn't look at it."
with understanding: "I saw a dog, and I looked at it, but I didn't SEE it."

I'm not sure we're all agreed on which semantics these various forms are carrying.

--larry

#62695 From: steve rice <ansric@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 10:02 pm
Subject: Re: "know" versus "be acquainted with"
ansric@...
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--- On Sun, 2/7/10, Larry Sulky <larrysulky@...> wrote:

> Hmmm.... I think you're right,
> Steve. It's a matter of degree, not of kind, and can be
> readily expressed with additional verbiage or rephrasing if
> necessary, as we do in English. I think Qakwan's
> distinction is going to pass into history.
>
I thought of a related item: when speaking of a poem, for example, you can use
koni (etc.) to say you're acquainted with it or scii (etc.) to say you know it
by heart. (In any case this works in the Romance languages and thus probably in
the main auxlangs.)

In Inlis I think I'd use

Mi du noen da poem = general knowledge/familiarity
Mi du lital noen da poem = acquaintance/heard of it
Mi du total noen da poem = complete knowledge, memorization

or simply

Mi du lanin da poem = learning = memorization (or you could add memari to be
annoyingly specific)

So why not

Mi du lanin hi

not in the colloquial sense of teaching him a lesson (I l'arned him!) but
meaning "I've learned/memorized him [and know what he's like]"? It would mean
about the same thing as the "total noen" option.

Steve

#62694 From: "<deinx nxtxr>" <deinx.nxtxr@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 1:53 pm
Subject: Re: [Fwd: World Loanword Database]
deinx.nxtxr@...
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Jens Wilkinson wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 11:40 PM, <deinx nxtxr> <deinx.nxtxr@...>
wrote:
>
>> World Loanword Database (WOLD)
>>
>> The World Loanword Database (WOLD), edited by Martin Haspelmath and Uri
>> Tadmor, is a scientific publication by the Max Planck Digital Library,
>> Munich (2009).
>>
>
> Thanks, that's a great resource. It's cool to look around to see what
> words are frequently borrowed and which are not.

There are some on Conlang attacking some of its credibility but I though
it would be a help to worllangers.

#62693 From: "<deinx nxtxr>" <deinx.nxtxr@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 1:46 pm
Subject: Re: The Sambahsa thread
deinx.nxtxr@...
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Jens Wilkinson wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 11:34 PM, <deinx nxtxr> <deinx.nxtxr@...>
wrote:
>
>
>> There is still a big difference because "look" and "listen" specifically
>> involve a focus of attention on a sight or sound.  Maybe there could be a
>> word simply for the act of mental focus that covers all of these without
>> linking it to particular sense.
>>
>
> I know there's a difference, but don't understand why it's important
> to express that difference. Is there ever really a need to distinguish
> between concentrated looking versus passive seeing?
>

This one though is very distinction having little to do with passive or
active.  "See" and "hear" are sensory but "look" and "listen" are mental
processes.  In fact they could all be combined into a word for "mind" or
"pay attention to".

#62692 From: Leo Ki <leokinetic@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 1:29 pm
Subject: Re: "know" versus "be acquainted with"
leokinetic@...
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Zeinelabidin Elhassi wrote:

> But if you want to say "I know his intentions ,and I won't buy his lies" ,then
> you say "I am acquainted with this type" (I know this type. "of people")

and steve rice wrote:

> Wau! Mi *fil* noen da dea-an!
> where the second implies something more visceral or intuitive.

Thank you! This is the kind of solutions I was looking for. A
different way could be to use a common verb in a figurative sense, for
instance "I see that guy" (meaning I see through him), which should be
clear enough in the context.

#62691 From: MacLeod Dave <mithradates@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 10:31 am
Subject: Re: The Sambahsa thread
mithradates@...
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2010/2/8 lingwadeplaneta <lingwadeplaneta@...>:
> --- In auxlang@yahoogroups.com, Jens Wilkinson <jenswilkinson@...> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 11:34 PM, <deinx nxtxr> <deinx.nxtxr@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > There is still a big difference because "look" and "listen" specifically
>> > involve a focus of attention on a sight or sound. Maybe there could be a
>> > word simply for the act of mental focus that covers all of these without
>> > linking it to particular sense.
>> >
>>
>> I know there's a difference, but don't understand why it's important
>> to express that difference. Is there ever really a need to distinguish
>> between concentrated looking versus passive seeing?
>>
>
> Yes there is. Often I am looking wihout seeing, although sometimes I see even
without looking. How will you translate this sentence if you have only one verb?

Let's expand on this: how does one translate Korean hyeong (older
brother for a man)? In Korean it's very important to know whether
someone is your hyeong or dongsaeng (younger) or donggap (same age).
Does a Korean have to say "older brother of a man" each and every
time?



--
http://www.pagef30.com

#62690 From: Jens Wilkinson <jenswilkinson@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 10:31 am
Subject: Re: The Sambahsa thread
jenswilkinson@...
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On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 7:10 PM, lingwadeplaneta
<lingwadeplaneta@...> wrote:
>>
>
> Yes there is. Often I am looking wihout seeing, although sometimes I see even
without looking. How will you translate this sentence if you have only one verb?
>
> For a long time we in LdP had only "audi", both for hear and listen. It's
still there, but also a more specific verb "slu" has appeared, for cases when
attentive listening is involved, for example medical auscultation or when a
beast listens to noises of the forest, trying to hear something.
>

I admit it's a bit tricky. Since Japanese doesn't have two words, the
sentence would also require some circumlocution. So I would suggest
something like this in Neo Patwa:

Tokitoki, mi nuli gani, lekin no sabe gani. Tokitoki, mi no nuli gani,
lekin sabe gani.

Literally, it means:

Sometimes, I try see, but no can see. Sometimes, I no try see, but can see.

I admit it's a bit clumsy, but I think it can work. Incidentally, it
appears even clumsier in Japanese, a living language, though of course
to Japanese speakers it isn't clumsy at all.

--
Jens Wilkinson
Neo Patwa (patwa.pbwiki.com)

#62689 From: lingwadeplaneta <lingwadeplaneta@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 10:10 am
Subject: Re: The Sambahsa thread
lingwadeplaneta@...
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--- In auxlang@yahoogroups.com, Jens Wilkinson <jenswilkinson@...> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 11:34 PM, <deinx nxtxr> <deinx.nxtxr@...> wrote:
>
>
> > There is still a big difference because "look" and "listen" specifically
> > involve a focus of attention on a sight or sound. Maybe there could be a
> > word simply for the act of mental focus that covers all of these without
> > linking it to particular sense.
> >
>
> I know there's a difference, but don't understand why it's important
> to express that difference. Is there ever really a need to distinguish
> between concentrated looking versus passive seeing?
>

Yes there is. Often I am looking wihout seeing, although sometimes I see even
without looking. How will you translate this sentence if you have only one verb?

For a long time we in LdP had only "audi", both for hear and listen. It's still
there, but also a more specific verb "slu" has appeared, for cases when
attentive listening is involved, for example medical auscultation or when a
beast listens to noises of the forest, trying to hear something.

Dmitry

#62688 From: Jens Wilkinson <jenswilkinson@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 10:05 am
Subject: Re: [Fwd: World Loanword Database]
jenswilkinson@...
Send Email Send Email
 
On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 11:40 PM, <deinx nxtxr> <deinx.nxtxr@...> wrote:

> World Loanword Database (WOLD)
>
> The World Loanword Database (WOLD), edited by Martin Haspelmath and Uri
> Tadmor, is a scientific publication by the Max Planck Digital Library,
> Munich (2009).
>

Thanks, that's a great resource. It's cool to look around to see what
words are frequently borrowed and which are not.


--
Jens Wilkinson
Neo Patwa (patwa.pbwiki.com)

#62687 From: Jens Wilkinson <jenswilkinson@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 5:39 am
Subject: Re: The Sambahsa thread
jenswilkinson@...
Send Email Send Email
 
On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 11:34 PM, <deinx nxtxr> <deinx.nxtxr@...> wrote:


> There is still a big difference because "look" and "listen" specifically
> involve a focus of attention on a sight or sound. Maybe there could be a
> word simply for the act of mental focus that covers all of these without
> linking it to particular sense.
>

I know there's a difference, but don't understand why it's important
to express that difference. Is there ever really a need to distinguish
between concentrated looking versus passive seeing?

--
Jens Wilkinson
Neo Patwa (patwa.pbwiki.com)

#62686 From: Matthew Barnett <auxlang@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 1:30 am
Subject: Re: Esperanto "Eureka" moment
auxlang@...
Send Email Send Email
 
<deinx nxtxr> wrote:
> Larry Sulky wrote:
>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 11:53 AM, M.S. Soderquist
>> <gloriouswaffle@...>wrote:
>>
>>> Larry Sulky wrote:
>>>
>>>  On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:25 AM, M.S. Soderquist
>>> <gloriouswaffle@...<mailto:
>>>> gloriouswaffle@...>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    Geoffrey King wrote:
>>>>
>>>>        "nabo" means "hub", or "nub"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    I would have guess "turnip"... Darn you, interference from
>>>>    Spanish! Darn you to heck!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Watch your language, young lady! This is a family listserver! >-(
>>>>
>>> You're right. I meant, "I would have guessed." I didn't mean to expose
>>> anyone's family to my bad grammar. Darn you, typos! Darn you to heck!
>>>
>>> Mia The Foul-mouthed Cretin
>>>
>>
>> That's a heck of a lot better. Hmmph!
>> --- Lawrence the Mollified
>
> Sheesh, and golly gosh darn it!
> ---  Dana the Unashamed.
>
I remember an episode of "Star Trek: The Next Generation" in which
Captain Picard actually swore. He said "merde"!

I suppose that it was deemed acceptable by the US television network
because most Americans don't know French.

I wonder how that was handled in France...

#62685 From: "<deinx nxtxr>" <deinx.nxtxr@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 1:04 am
Subject: Re: Esperanto "Eureka" moment
deinx.nxtxr@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Larry Sulky wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 11:53 AM, M.S. Soderquist
> <gloriouswaffle@...>wrote:
>
>> Larry Sulky wrote:
>>
>>  On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:25 AM, M.S. Soderquist
<gloriouswaffle@...<mailto:
>>> gloriouswaffle@...>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    Geoffrey King wrote:
>>>
>>>        "nabo" means "hub", or "nub"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    I would have guess "turnip"... Darn you, interference from
>>>    Spanish! Darn you to heck!
>>>
>>>
>>> Watch your language, young lady! This is a family listserver! >-(
>>>
>> You're right. I meant, "I would have guessed." I didn't mean to expose
>> anyone's family to my bad grammar. Darn you, typos! Darn you to heck!
>>
>> Mia The Foul-mouthed Cretin
>>
>
> That's a heck of a lot better. Hmmph!
> --- Lawrence the Mollified

Sheesh, and golly gosh darn it!
---  Dana the Unashamed.

#62684 From: steve rice <ansric@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 12:19 am
Subject: Re: The Sambahsa thread
ansric@...
Send Email Send Email
 
--- On Sat, 2/6/10, <deinx nxtxr> <deinx.nxtxr@...> wrote:

> steve rice wrote:

> > Still close enough. Looking is intentional; seeing may
> be
> > unintentional. Otherwise they're the same thing. And
> to bring this
> > back around, a mir-ror is a "looking glass." Mnemonics
> are often
> > nonsense if you take them too seriously.
>
> There is still a big difference because "look" and "listen"
> specifically involve a focus of attention on a sight or
> sound. Maybe there could be a word simply for the act
> of mental focus that covers all of these without linking it
> to particular sense.

In Inlis you would probably just say, "Mi trayen ta si/hir..." I may make a
separate form ?inten for intention, including intentionally seeing or hearing,
and I may eventually introduce ?lukin and ?lis[e]nin, but they shouldn't be
necessary for beginners.

Steve

#62683 From: Paul Bartlett <bartlett@...>
Date: Sun Feb 7, 2010 10:23 pm
Subject: BBC radio program on constructed languages (fwd)
bartlett@...
Send Email Send Email
 
As a courtesy I am forwarding this post and have explained by private
email what the problem is.  (The server is very literal-minded and
expects posts to come from exactly what email address was used to
subscribe.)

Paul Bartlett
AUXLANG Listowner/Moderator

---------- Forwarded message ----------
To: AUXLANG-request@...
:From: Pat & Bill Chapman <patbillchapman@...>
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:24:34 +0000
Subject: Rejected posting

Hello. The following text was rejected. I wonder if this due to a confusin
between gmail.com and googlemail.com which are the same thing. Could you
insert my text?

Many thanks.


:From: "Pat & Bill Chapman" <patbillchapman@...>
To: International Auxiliary Languages <AUXLANG@...>
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:20:46 +0000
Subject: Re: BBC radio program on constructed languages
In fact various local and regional sections of the BBC have been fairly
generous to Esperanto in recent months. Take a look, for example, at:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8501196.stm

The gathering of twenty young Esperanto speakers in Cardiff this weekend has
clearly caught the eye of the BBC. No other contructed auxiliary language
gets a look in here.

In fact, Wales seems to be a growth area for Esperanto at the moment. The
first ever introduction to Esperanto Welsh (36 pages) is due to be published
on St David's Day.

--
Pat and Bill Chapman,
8 Vardre View, Deganwy, Conwy, LL31 9TE
patbillchapman@...

#62682 From: Larry Sulky <larrysulky@...>
Date: Sun Feb 7, 2010 7:54 pm
Subject: Re: Esperanto "Eureka" moment
larrysulky@...
Send Email Send Email
 
On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 11:53 AM, M.S. Soderquist <gloriouswaffle@...> wrote:
Larry Sulky wrote:

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:25 AM, M.S. Soderquist <gloriouswaffle@... <mailto:gloriouswaffle@...>> wrote:

Geoffrey King wrote:

"nabo" means "hub", or "nub"



I would have guess "turnip"... Darn you, interference from
Spanish! Darn you to heck!


Watch your language, young lady! This is a family listserver! >-(

You're right. I meant, "I would have guessed." I didn't mean to expose anyone's family to my bad grammar. Darn you, typos! Darn you to heck!

Mia The Foul-mouthed Cretin

That's a heck of a lot better. Hmmph!
--- Lawrence the Mollified

#62681 From: Zeinelabidin Elhassi <zar_di_albadino@...>
Date: Sun Feb 7, 2010 6:17 pm
Subject: Re: The Sambahsa thread
zar_di_albadino@...
Send Email Send Email
 
On Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:52:59 -0000, lingwadeplaneta
<lingwadeplaneta@...> wrote:

>--- In auxlang@yahoogroups.com, Zeinelabidin Elhassi <zar_di_albadino@...>
wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 6 Feb 2010 08:35:29 -0500, Zeinelabidin Elhassi
>> <zar_di_albadino@...> wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:35:54 +0900, Jens Wilkinson
>> ><jenswilkinson@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > This is actually something I tried to use in Neo Patwa,
>> >>for example Arabic loanwords in Spanish, or Spanish loanwords in
>> >>Tagalog. If I can find Arabic loanwords in Spanish and then in
>> >>Tagalog, then this is a great bonus.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >I had researched the national library in Benghazi (Alsadeq Alnayhoom
Library)
>> >And I have collected the most important Arabic loan words that are
spread in
>> >many languages like Hausa, Spanish, Malay, Swahili Bengali, Pahari and
many
>> >others .
>>
>>
>> The website given by Dana is good and reliable. In some languages it gives
>> extensive informations. The website doesn't contain all languages that
borrow
>> from Arabic. So I can add the following to the website , And I hope you like
my
>> addition.
>>
>> had        borderline,boundary        Arabic,Oriya,Malay,Gujarati
>> bagsis       tip                            Tibetan,Arabic,Malay
>> cabza      hilt of a sword                Tibetan,Arabic
>> caber        grave                       Tibetan,Arabic,Malay
>> dauat        inkstand                   Pahari,Arabic,Malay
>> galti        to make a mistake        Pahari,Arabic,Malay
>> varis         heir                          Hindi,Arabic
>> zabah      to slaughter                 Hindi,Arabic
>> zalam       to tyrannize                Arabic,Hindi,Harari
>> saraf       to change money           Amharic,Arabic
>> daim         always                      Harari,Arabic,Malay
>> wasia       last will                      Harari,Arabic,Malay
>> camus      dictionary                   Somali,Arabic
>> midad        ink                           Somali,Arabic
>> adat         habit                         Bengali,Arabic,Malay
>> seter    white veil of muslim women        Gurage,Arabic
>> murjan      red coral                    Hausa,Arabic,Malay
>> lacab         nickname                  Hausa,Arabic,Malay
>> hisab      account, calculations     Turkish , Urdu , Arabic
>>
>>
>> Zein.
>>
>
>Shukran, very interesting. Give more if there is more to add.
>
>Dmitry


Yes. I have more to add ,but what is left is the loanwords that are present in
Swahili , Spanish, Berber and Hausa. And loanwords from these languages you
can find them easily on the website given by Dana. So in my previous message
I mentioned only the loanwords that are not available on the website. Now I
will give you the rest of what I have extracted from the books.
hadar          townsman                    Berber,Arabic
jamaha       a group of notables         Berber,Arabic
rahil           nomadic migration          Berber,Arabic
tagbilt        tribe                            Berber,Arabic
urf             customary tribal law       Berber,Arabic
wazir          minister                       Hausa,Arabic,Malay
sahel          shore                           Hausa,Arabic
tamir          date                            Somali,Arabic
ruh             soul                            Swahili,Arabic
cafan          shourd                        Hausa,Arabic,Malay
majlis          council chamber            Hausa,Arabic,Malay
mizan          scale                          Hausa,Arabic,Malay
azin            to permit                     Hausa,Arabic,Malay
nia             to intend                      Hausa,Arabic,Malay
asas            basis                          Hausa,Arabic,Malay
bab           chapter of a book           Hausa,Arabic,Malay
fard           obligatory duty               Hausa,Arabic,Malay
hadir          to be present                 Arabic,Malay
haiba         dignified appearance        Hausa,Arabic,Malay
hila           craftiness                       Hausa,Arabic,Malay
harf          letter of the alphabet       Hausa,Arabic,Malay
cafas          cage                             Spanish,Arabic
anoria        irrigation wheels               Spanish,Arabic
arasif         wharf                            Spanish,Arabic
soteha       flat roof                         Spanish,Arabic
wacida        match "fire"                   Spanish,Arabic
mud            a measure for grain         Spanish,Arabic

Arabic loan words in extinct languages
dor            pearl                          Geez,Arabic
harir            silk                          Geez,Arabic
minxar         saw                          Geez,Arabic
tailasan     priest's garment            Geez,Arabic
emamah      head-cover               Tigrinya,Arabic
hetub          tile                         Tigrinya,Arabic
cafilat         caravan                   Tigrinya,Arabic
secan         rudder of a boat        Tigrinya,Arabic


Zein.

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