We are dedicated to the continued development of Hugh Piggot's Axial
Flux Alternator. We are experimenting with the practicality of this
laternator with a variety of drivers, not just wind. Water, Wind,
Engines, Human power, all will be investigated and improved. This is a
moderated group, and all conversation will stay strictly on-topic.

Project one is mounting the AFA underneath the deck of a 3hp
pushmower, replacing the blades. The stator will mount to the deck
above, the rotors to the engine shaft.

Project two is a recumebent exercycle with the AFA mounted up fron,
chain driven from the pedal assembly.

Steve Spence
http://www.green-trust.org

glad i found this site
ive been reading alot obout this subject and would like to ask some
questions keep in mind im not very smart on electric.
my question is has anyone thought about a very small version of this
idea.
i have a spring that runs constantly with about 30 feet of drop
to our pond.
my idea is to use cd disk instead of the car rotors
and set them up on a level by level drop like water wheels.
that turn the cd dick with the small magnets from computur hard drives
i get from a friend.
the issue im having is how to connect all the little water wheel
genorators together in the wireing department.
any pointers will help

It's my understanding that the steel backing plate completes the magnetic
"circuit", so a non-magnetic plate, like a cd, would be less useful. A small
rotor machine should still work. On our 12" rotor, we used 12 magnets, and 9
coils. IIRC, the idea being that a magnet does not cross two coils in the
same phase at the same time. http://www.scoraigwind.com/pmgbooklet/itpmg.pdf
shows 8 magnets per rotor and 6 coils.

Steve Spence
http://www.green-trust.org

-----Original Message-----
From: axialflux@yahoogroups.com [mailto:axialflux@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of tracy
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 7:30 PM
To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [axialflux] hi group

glad i found this site
ive been reading alot obout this subject and would like to ask some
questions keep in mind im not very smart on electric.
my question is has anyone thought about a very small version of this
idea.
i have a spring that runs constantly with about 30 feet of drop
to our pond.
my idea is to use cd disk instead of the car rotors
and set them up on a level by level drop like water wheels.
that turn the cd dick with the small magnets from computur hard drives
i get from a friend.
the issue im having is how to connect all the little water wheel
genorators together in the wireing department.
any pointers will help







Yahoo! Groups Links

so are you saying that a steal plate would be better
as to creat some kind of magnetic circle that effects the coils
of wire.


--- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Spence" <sspence@...> wrote:
>
> It's my understanding that the steel backing plate completes the
magnetic
> "circuit", so a non-magnetic plate, like a cd, would be less
useful. A small
> rotor machine should still work. On our 12" rotor, we used 12
magnets, and 9
> coils. IIRC, the idea being that a magnet does not cross two coils
in the
> same phase at the same time.
http://www.scoraigwind.com/pmgbooklet/itpmg.pdf
> shows 8 magnets per rotor and 6 coils.
>
> Steve Spence
> http://www.green-trust.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: axialflux@yahoogroups.com [mailto:axialflux@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf
> Of tracy
> Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 7:30 PM
> To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [axialflux] hi group
>
> glad i found this site
> ive been reading alot obout this subject and would like to ask
some
> questions keep in mind im not very smart on electric.
> my question is has anyone thought about a very small version of
this
> idea.
> i have a spring that runs constantly with about 30 feet of drop
> to our pond.
> my idea is to use cd disk instead of the car rotors
> and set them up on a level by level drop like water wheels.
> that turn the cd dick with the small magnets from computur hard
drives
> i get from a friend.
> the issue im having is how to connect all the little water wheel
> genorators together in the wireing department.
> any pointers will help
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Correct.

Steve Spence
http://www.green-trust.org

--- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "tracy" <towerace123@...> wrote:
>
> so are you saying that a steal plate would be better
> as to creat some kind of magnetic circle that effects the coils
> of wire.
>
>
> --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Spence" <sspence@> wrote:
> >
> > It's my understanding that the steel backing plate completes the
> magnetic
> > "circuit", so a non-magnetic plate, like a cd, would be less
> useful. A small
> > rotor machine should still work. On our 12" rotor, we used 12
> magnets, and 9
> > coils. IIRC, the idea being that a magnet does not cross two coils
> in the
> > same phase at the same time.
> http://www.scoraigwind.com/pmgbooklet/itpmg.pdf
> > shows 8 magnets per rotor and 6 coils.
> >
> > Steve Spence
> > http://www.green-trust.org
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: axialflux@yahoogroups.com [mailto:axialflux@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf
> > Of tracy
> > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 7:30 PM
> > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [axialflux] hi group
> >
> > glad i found this site
> > ive been reading alot obout this subject and would like to ask
> some
> > questions keep in mind im not very smart on electric.
> > my question is has anyone thought about a very small version of
> this
> > idea.
> > i have a spring that runs constantly with about 30 feet of drop
> > to our pond.
> > my idea is to use cd disk instead of the car rotors
> > and set them up on a level by level drop like water wheels.
> > that turn the cd dick with the small magnets from computur hard
> drives
> > i get from a friend.
> > the issue im having is how to connect all the little water wheel
> > genorators together in the wireing department.
> > any pointers will help
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>

Jim has aquired a pushmower from the dump, and we are checking to make
sure the shaft length is sufficient to mount an AFA. One thing we will
be looking at is a governor addon. Details to follow.

Steve Spence
http://www.green-trust.org

Thanks for the invitation to join the group. I look forword to
learning all kinds of stuff, and shairing what I know.

I live in North Florida, and have lived on a houseboat since hurricane
Dennis. I am off grid, and enjoying life to the fullest. Right now I
use gas generators, batteries, and inverters to keep me up and
running. I use about 3 gallons of gas a day, so it isn't "cheep"
living... But it is very satisfying when people come out to see you,
(with their own ideas of how I must live) and when they get there they
can't believe it. I have EVERYTHING that any regular grid tied home
would have. I have highspeed internet (with direcway...Now called
hughesnet) a home phone (VOIP), and I have satellite tv. (along with a
frigerator, TVs, A/Cs, and a bunch of computer stuff.) As you can
understand my power consumption is pritty high too. I don't really
want to cut my power comsumption down anymore than I have, which is
why I am always searching for better, and cheeper ways to make
electricity... Which is what brought me to you all.

I hope to learn a lot from you.... and if I can help you with
anything... Just holler.
Jim Carlson

As a way to generate additional projects on this list besides ours,
and to help pay for additional development on our next turbine, we are
raffling off a set of 12" rotor plates (2 plates). These are the same
plates seen in these pictures of our wind turbine. Hydrocut, and
perfectly shaped, SANS magnets. We will run the raffle for 7 days, so
look back here next wednesday for the winner, and expect to see
further posts from that person of their project! Send $5 to
http://www.paypal.com using sspence@... as the recipient,
and in less than 2 weeks, someone will have a brand new set of rotor
plates.

Steve Spence
http://www.green-trust.org

Ok, so a raffle is a no-no. So no raffle. However, Donations are
accepted, and once a month I'll give a set of rotor plates to a random
list member. Anyone wanting to help subsidize the development of these
alternators and promote renewable energy is encouraged to make a
voluntary donation which does not affect the outcome of the
give-a-way. I will list the winner of the freebie here, unless the
winner prefers not to be listed. If donations are good, we kight be
able to give a set of blades, or even magnets. We prefer you make your
own blades, for the experience, but we understand not everyone has the
ability to make a magnet ;-)


--- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Spence" <sspence@...> wrote:
>
> As a way to generate additional projects on this list besides ours,
> and to help pay for additional development on our next turbine, we are
> raffling off a set of 12" rotor plates (2 plates). These are the same
> plates seen in these pictures of our wind turbine. Hydrocut, and
> perfectly shaped, SANS magnets. We will run the raffle for 7 days, so
> look back here next wednesday for the winner, and expect to see
> further posts from that person of their project! Send $5 to
> http://www.paypal.com using sspence@... as the recipient,
> and in less than 2 weeks, someone will have a brand new set of rotor
> plates.
>
> Steve Spence
> http://www.green-trust.org
>

Looks like a fun group you've started here!  One comment...

"This group is dedicated to the Axial Flux Permanent Magnet
Alternator, as designed by Hugh Piggott, improved by Dan Fink and Dan
Bartmann of Otherpower, Steve Spence of Green-Trust and Jim Juczak of
Woodhenge"

I would definitely not say 'improved' - I would say changed perhaps,
but not improved. It may be improved - it may not - time will tell.

I notice the machine in the pictures on the front page here lacks a
furling system - are you planning to run it that way?

Well, I thought it was an improvement over his old design. But then I
haven't seen his new one, or your new one either. So we all have some
good designs. You didn't mention it, but you guys sell plans and parts
for these cool machines, so please let us know what you have available.

We haven't built the tail vane yet, but it will be on there before she
goes up the tower.

--- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "buckvillian" <danb@...> wrote:
>
> Looks like a fun group you've started here!  One comment...
>
> "This group is dedicated to the Axial Flux Permanent Magnet
> Alternator, as designed by Hugh Piggott, improved by Dan Fink and Dan
> Bartmann of Otherpower, Steve Spence of Green-Trust and Jim Juczak of
> Woodhenge"
>
> I would definitely not say 'improved' - I would say changed perhaps,
> but not improved. It may be improved - it may not - time will tell.
>
> I notice the machine in the pictures on the front page here lacks a
> furling system - are you planning to run it that way?
>

University testing on the Hugh Piggott alternator, -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/axialflux/files/

How much heat would the 10K generator (the one in the files) produce
while in operation? What would the continuous usage rating on this
generator? What would be the best way to cool it...maybe some kind of
oil bath? Would it produce more power if you used more magnets and
coils, or would you just be required to turn it slower? (While making
the same power)

Magnet questions

I have noticed on the WebPages that the magnets that have a small hole
in them are rated for more lifting power. (Even though the size is the
same as one with no hole) Would it be an advantage to have one with
the hole or would the hole bother the magnetic flux. Or would it help
in keeping things cooler.

Thanks for the help and ideas; I hope everyone is having fun
Jim Carlson

The hole is incidental to the power rating. We use grade n50 magnets with no
hole, but are looking at ones with holes for more positive mounting than
superglue and magnetic flux. We are also looking at grooving the rotor with
a lip or insetting the magnets to keep the magnets from sliding out at high
rotor speeds. Because the stator is open to the air, I don't believe cooling
is an issue, but I am considering embedding a temp sensor in the casting.

-----Original Message-----
From: axialflux@yahoogroups.com [mailto:axialflux@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Jim Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 6:52 PM
To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [axialflux] Now the questions start :-)



How much heat would the 10K generator (the one in the files) produce
while in operation? What would the continuous usage rating on this
generator? What would be the best way to cool it...maybe some kind of
oil bath? Would it produce more power if you used more magnets and
coils, or would you just be required to turn it slower? (While making
the same power)

Magnet questions

I have noticed on the WebPages that the magnets that have a small hole
in them are rated for more lifting power. (Even though the size is the
same as one with no hole) Would it be an advantage to have one with
the hole or would the hole bother the magnetic flux. Or would it help
in keeping things cooler.

Thanks for the help and ideas; I hope everyone is having fun
Jim Carlson












Yahoo! Groups Links

We have a bunch of links to other sites showing axial flux
alternators, or sources of materials for building them. Check them out
at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/axialflux/links/

Steve Spence
http://www.green-trust.org

I am really interested in alternative power sources.  I currently
live in an apartment on the first floor of the north side of the
building (the dark side). So my options for making or doing things
to produce power are limited.  I am really interested in the Axial
Flux Alternators your making. I can see a bunch of uses for them..
along with some idea's to possibly make them better (as far as the
wind turning them).  But when you have been talking about magnets
and ect. I feel like it's over my head..  I admit I am real new or
uneducated about this but have been interested in it for a long time.
I hope to learn much from this group..

Just a question as far as the blades go for getting the wind to turn
the Axial Flux Alternators? Is that more efficient then possibly a
squirrel cage sort of fan? Just an idea..



--- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Carlson" <jimcarlson622@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> How much heat would the 10K generator (the one in the files)
produce
> while in operation? What would the continuous usage rating on this
> generator? What would be the best way to cool it...maybe some kind
of
> oil bath? Would it produce more power if you used more magnets and
> coils, or would you just be required to turn it slower? (While
making
> the same power)
>
> Magnet questions
>
> I have noticed on the WebPages that the magnets that have a small
hole
> in them are rated for more lifting power. (Even though the size is
the
> same as one with no hole) Would it be an advantage to have one with
> the hole or would the hole bother the magnetic flux. Or would it
help
> in keeping things cooler.
>
> Thanks for the help and ideas; I hope everyone is having fun
> Jim Carlson
>

Jim Juczak has a few sets of rotor plates ready for magnets and
installation. These are 12" and designed for a 12 magnet, 9 coil, 1000
watt AFA (600rpm). He's selling them for $20 each (you need 2) +S&H,
so send an email to the group owner with your contact info, and Jim
will get in touch with you. These are the same rotor plates we will be
giving one set away each month.

Steve Spence
http://www.green-trust.org

I ordered the back issues:

BH077          No.77-July/Aug 2005
BH076          No.76-May-Jun 2005
BH075          No. 75 Mar/April 2005
BH074          No.74 Jan/Feb 05

Using http://www.random.org/nform.html, I asked for a random number
between 1 and 87 (todays subscriber count). The answer came back 58.
Congratulations ttwombly@..., you are a winner. Get back to me
with shipping info please.

Steve Spence
http://www.green-trust.org

What is the photo on the main group description page showing? Is that
a test stand the alternator and blades are mounted on? If it's the
real turbine frame, I don't see a furling system. Wind turbines 4 feet
diameter and under can possibly get away with no furling system -- but
with anything bigger than that, the turbine will eventually blow up --
might take a day, a month or a year, but eventually you'll get some
winds strong enough to destroy it, either from mechanical failure or
heat generated in the stator. Been there and done that! Always build
in a furling system with any turbine -- even if it's just a simple
shutdown mechanism that you can manually activate. An automatic
furling system is much better, since you don't have to be there on
site, monitoring what's going on.  DANF

--- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Danbob" <danbob@...> wrote:
>
> What is the photo on the main group description page showing? Is that
> a test stand the alternator and blades are mounted on? If it's the
> real turbine frame, I don't see a furling system. Wind turbines 4 feet
> diameter and under can possibly get away with no furling system -- but
> with anything bigger than that, the turbine will eventually blow up --
> might take a day, a month or a year, but eventually you'll get some
> winds strong enough to destroy it, either from mechanical failure or
> heat generated in the stator. Been there and done that! Always build
> in a furling system with any turbine -- even if it's just a simple
> shutdown mechanism that you can manually activate. An automatic
> furling system is much better, since you don't have to be there on
> site, monitoring what's going on.  DANF
>


You can see more of the furling system in this photo. It was out of
the field of view in the main pic, as we are focusing more on the
alternator than what's driving it.

http://www.green-trust.org/photoalbum/wind%20class/slides/wind%20class%20100.htm\
l

We also have shutdown switches that short the coils between the stator
and the bridge rectifiers. Some pics of the alternator are in the
photo's section, but more pics of the whole wind turbine build are at
http://www.green-trust.org/photoalbum/wind%20class/index.html

Steve Spence
http://www.green-trust.org

Hi Steve -
Yes, we have a few useful things here:
http://www.forcefieldmagnets.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=22_30

Basicly - magnets, wire, plans, heat sinks, rectifiers, magnet
templates and steel rotors.  I expect well have more of a kit together
here soon.

--- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Spence" <sspence@...> wrote:
>
> Well, I thought it was an improvement over his old design. But then I
> haven't seen his new one, or your new one either. So we all have some
> good designs. You didn't mention it, but you guys sell plans and parts
> for these cool machines, so please let us know what you have available.
>
> We haven't built the tail vane yet, but it will be on there before she
> goes up the tower.
>
> --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "buckvillian" <danb@> wrote:
> >
> > Looks like a fun group you've started here!  One comment...
> >
> > "This group is dedicated to the Axial Flux Permanent Magnet
> > Alternator, as designed by Hugh Piggott, improved by Dan Fink and Dan
> > Bartmann of Otherpower, Steve Spence of Green-Trust and Jim Juczak of
> > Woodhenge"
> >
> > I would definitely not say 'improved' - I would say changed perhaps,
> > but not improved. It may be improved - it may not - time will tell.
> >
> > I notice the machine in the pictures on the front page here lacks a
> > furling system - are you planning to run it that way?
> >
>

"The grade of a magnet directly refers to the Maximum Energy Product
of the material that composes the magnet. It in no way refers to the
physical properties of the magnet. Simplistically, grade is generally
used to describe how "strong" a permanent magnet material is. The
energy product is specified in the units Gauss Oersted. One MGOe is
1,000,000 Gauss Oersted. A grade forty (N40) would have a Maximum
Energy Product of 40 MGOe. The higher the grade the "stronger" the
magnet."

http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/magnets.htm

We used N50's in the pictured Wind Turbine. IIRC, These are the most
powerful that are commonly available.

Steve Spence
http://www.green-trust.org

--- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Spence" <sspence@...> wrote:
>
> We have a bunch of links to other sites showing axial flux
> alternators, or sources of materials for building them. Check them out
> at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/axialflux/links/
>
> Steve Spence
> http://www.green-trust.org
>

You should also add the discussion board at http://www.fieldlines.com/

that's where the action is.

Hugh

On 6/7/06, scoraigwind <hugh@...> wrote:
> >
>
> You should also add the discussion board at http://www.fieldlines.com/
>
> that's where the action is.
>

Hello Hugh!
Thanks for the link.

Evan.

I'm meeting Jim tonight at the Richard Heinberg lecture (see
http://www.green-trust.org). We will be looking at some design changes
(preformed plastic coil plates) and other improvements. We have this
down to a no weld design, we'd like to get rid of the fiberglass resin
step as well.