At a place simply called The Feed Store I found the most wonderful
gardening supplies that the large nurseries do not have.  In
particular Organica brand 'K + Neem'(for plants).  I have never
before seen Neem (Mahogany) outside of Indian Grogeries.  Neem is
slighly toxic to nearly all non-mammals (e.g. insects, Iraqnids*,
yeast).  It is a standard ingredient in Southern Indian curries.  A
member of this list had expressed a strong dislike for 'nematodes'.
*Poetic license #BR-549

Sent by Medscape Mail: Free Portable E-mail for Professionals on the Move
http://www.medscape.com

At a place simply called The Feed Store I found the most wonderful
gardening supplies that the large nurseries do not have.  In
particular Organica brand 'K + Neem'(for plants).  I have never
before seen Neem (Mahogany) outside of Indian Grogeries.  Neem is
slighly toxic to nearly all non-mammals (e.g. insects, Iraqnids*,
yeast).  It is a standard ingredient in Southern Indian curries.  A
member of this list had expressed a strong dislike for 'nematodes'.
*Poetic license #BR-549

Sent by Medscape Mail: Free Portable E-mail for Professionals on the Move
http://www.medscape.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Mary & Bill McDavit [mailto:osprey1@...]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 7:09 PM
To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZ] Bald?

Joe Schild,

 

    Now, all of us bald guys are going to think that we were just unlucky!!  I've often wondered what it was.

 

Bill McDavit - Sunset Lakes, NC - Zone 8

 

Subject: RE: [AZ] Bald?

Larry,

Usually when we refer to a mountain top bald, we are talking about a location with few if any trees and is covered with grass. Wayah Bald does not exactly fit the description, but Gregory Bald does, where cattle were once summer grazed many years ago. Brass Town Bald in North Georgia and Parsson's Bald also fit. Much of Roane Mountain would also fit the description.

 

I do know from where bald comes from in we humans, for I was lucky and did not inherit the pattern from my father or from my mother's side where all her brothers and her father were bald, like a billiard ball.

 

Joe Schild-Hixson, TN USDA Zone 7a

Ask a friend to join the Azalea Society of America!

 

 

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Interesting threads on BALD.  Had not given the thought much effort before.
Thanks for another good read and awareness.
Barbara  8b


-----Original Message-----
From: Royster, David [mailto:droyster@...]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 12:17 PM
To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AZ] Bald?



In the Appalachian Mountains there are mountaintops that are not covered
with trees, but instead are covered in grasses and low shrubs - low being a
relative term.

There are dozens of high elevation "balds" in the Southern Appalachians. In
the Smokies, as well as other areas, farmers would drive their livestock to
the highest balds in the summer. This grazing would keep many of the balds
free of trees. Today, maintenance of the balds is sometimes the only reason
that some of these balds still exist. There are a number of groups who will
help maintain the balds and "fight" to keep an invading army of plants
taking them over.

Researchers have looked for evidence of bald creation through burning,
grazing, climatic factors related to the Wisconsin glaciation, impacts of
Native Americans and colonial settlers, and effects of mega-fauna during the
last ice age. The origin of balds remains a mystery, and balds management
issues are continually debated.

Unlike Heath Balds which are dominated by shrubs (mostly of the Rhododendron
family), Grassy Balds are devoid of woody plants and consist of various
grass and sedge species. Located on high mountain summits, Grassy Balds are
unique to the Southern Appalachians.

Because of their uniqueness, along with limited acreage, Grassy Balds are
considered Globally Rare by The Nature Conservancy. Several rare plant
species, including Gray's Lily (Lilium grayi), can be found in Grassy balds.


There are numerous theories on the origins of Grassy Balds, a subject which
remains controversial and which will probably never be resolved. Equally
contentious among scientists is what mechanism(s) maintained these balds,
preventing them from converting into forests. Grassy Balds that are not
managed will quickly be overtaken by blackberry and other woody species.

It has been suggested that native large mammals, such as bison and elk, were
responsible for maintaining these balds; later early settlers grazed the
same sites with domesticated livestock. It has also been suggested that fire
can play a critical role in the maintenance of Grassy Balds.

Obviously, the ones that we find interesting are the Heath Balds.

droyster

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Wallace [mailto:Larry.Wallace@...]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 12:08 PM
To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AZ] Bald?


Wayah Bald, NC,
Gregory Bald
What does 'bald' mean in this case?  Usually it means 'white'
or 'white head' i.e. bald eagle, pied/piebald, skewed/skewbald.

Sent by Medscape Mail: Free Portable E-mail for Professionals on the
Move
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Yahoo! Groups Links

Dear all;

  I have been reading a Wonderful History titled "The People of Cades
Cove"  written and reported by Supreme Court Justice William
O.Douglas -   It was written in July, 1962 issue of the National
Geographic , on page 40 of this article it states; and I quote

  "One June day,Harvey and Anne Broome, Ernest Dickerman, a member of
the Smoky Mountains Hiking Club, Otis Imboden of National
Geographic, Michael Oliver, and I hiked into Gregory Bald. It rained
incessantly , and when we reached the top, the fog rolled restlessly
across the bald. The Azaleas had watery growths on them , some of
them half the size of lemon. They are known as leaf galls,or "pinxter
apples"; we used them to quench our thirst. ""

  so the question==


    can "pinxter apples" be used to quench thirst????

  thank you-   attached is the link on web site of the whole article
  with some nice pix's, please take a look.

  Tadeusz- Home of the "Fighting Illinoi"-

  http://www.transcendata.com/~ked/smokies5/cades_cove2.htm

This topic has been on the email list several times.  It has been
reported that the galls have a slight taste of watermelon, though for
some reason I haven't tried them.  One year I took a picture of a
surprisingly shaped gall and asked the list to identify that "azalea".
Several guesses were sent to me, but only T. Huisman ( as I recall )
noted that it wasn't a flower and identified it correctly.  It really
DID look like a greenish flower!

iltkyao wrote:

>
>  Dear all;
>
> I have been reading a Wonderful History titled "The People of Cades
>Cove"  written and reported by Supreme Court Justice William
>O.Douglas -   It was written in July, 1962 issue of the National
>Geographic , on page 40 of this article it states; and I quote
>
> "One June day,Harvey and Anne Broome, Ernest Dickerman, a member of
>the Smoky Mountains Hiking Club, Otis Imboden of National
>Geographic, Michael Oliver, and I hiked into Gregory Bald. It rained
>incessantly , and when we reached the top, the fog rolled restlessly
>across the bald. The Azaleas had watery growths on them , some of
>them half the size of lemon. They are known as leaf galls,or "pinxter
>apples"; we used them to quench our thirst. ""
>
> so the question==
>
>
>   can "pinxter apples" be used to quench thirst????
>
> thank you-   attached is the link on web site of the whole article
> with some nice pix's, please take a look.
>
> Tadeusz- Home of the "Fighting Illinoi"-
>
> http://www.transcendata.com/~ked/smokies5/cades_cove2.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>When you reply to this email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as
context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.  Also
PLEASE tell us where you garden (city, state or at least your USDA zone).
>
>We welcome images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480 pixel .jpg
images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal.
>
>To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Tadeusz,

Let's start with the premise that all parts of the azalea are said to be
toxic.  Now consider that several ASA members have reported that they
have eaten leaf galls.   Barry Sperling mentioned that someone thought
it reminded them of watermelon.  I understand that cyanide has an almond
taste to it.  I believe I'll take their word for that one too.  I would
not advocate eating leaf galls.

Bill Miller
Bethesda, Maryland


iltkyao wrote:

>
>  Dear all;
>
> I have been reading a Wonderful History titled "The People of Cades
>Cove"  written and reported by Supreme Court Justice William
>O.Douglas -   It was written in July, 1962 issue of the National
>Geographic , on page 40 of this article it states; and I quote
>
> "One June day,Harvey and Anne Broome, Ernest Dickerman, a member of
>the Smoky Mountains Hiking Club, Otis Imboden of National
>Geographic, Michael Oliver, and I hiked into Gregory Bald. It rained
>incessantly , and when we reached the top, the fog rolled restlessly
>across the bald. The Azaleas had watery growths on them , some of
>them half the size of lemon. They are known as leaf galls,or "pinxter
>apples"; we used them to quench our thirst. ""
>
> so the question==
>
>
>   can "pinxter apples" be used to quench thirst????
>
> thank you-   attached is the link on web site of the whole article
> with some nice pix's, please take a look.
>
> Tadeusz- Home of the "Fighting Illinoi"-
>
> http://www.transcendata.com/~ked/smokies5/cades_cove2.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>When you reply to this email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as
context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.  Also
PLEASE tell us where you garden (city, state or at least your USDA zone).
>
>We welcome images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480 pixel .jpg
images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal.
>
>To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

"William C. Miller III" <bill@...> wrote:

>Let's start with the premise that all parts of the azalea are said to be
>toxic.  Now consider that several ASA members have reported that they

According to the Alberta Government
(http://www.agric.gov.ab.ca/crops/hort/houseplants/poisonous.html)

The toxin in azaleas is Grayanotoxin (formerly known as
andromedotoxin, acetylandromedol,  and rhodotoxin), arbutin glucoside.

The symptoms are:  nausea, salivation, vomiting, weakness, dizziness,
difficulty  in breathing, loss of balance.

Toxic dose: 100 to 225 grams of azalea (Rhododendron  occidentale)
leaves must be eaten to seriously poison a 55 lb  child.   That is
roughly a quarter to half a pound.  Table salt is much more toxic.
The LD50 for NaCl is 3gms per kg or 75 grams for a 55 lb child.   I
think I would rather eat an azalea.



--
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA   USA  Zone 6

Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/rhody.html

Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/rhodybooks.html

Mr Barry;  I don't want to be confrontational, but could you please
tell me the msg  # of the 1900 or so that we have on this forum that
has any information about what you state ; about the topic  being
reported several times and a watermelon taste.---

Thank you Tadeusz.

In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Barry Sperling <barrysperling@i...>
wrote:
> This topic has been on the email list several times.  It has been
> reported that the galls have a slight taste of watermelon, though
for
> some reason I haven't tried them.  One year I took a picture of a
> surprisingly shaped gall and asked the list to identify
that "azalea".
> Several guesses were sent to me, but only T. Huisman ( as I
recall )
> noted that it wasn't a flower and identified it correctly.  It
really
> DID look like a greenish flower!
>
> > >

Steve,

That's very good.

Consider:

1. that NaCl is essential and azalea is not; that is, you have to have
salt in your diet.   I don't imagine anyone has died from consuming too
little azalea.

2.  LD 50 means that half the animals died at that dose.  It was not
stated what the test animals were, or how many animals were in the
study.  It is important to remember that all animals do not respond the
same, and that some animals are more representative of the human
condition than others.  Deer for example seem to suffer no ill effect
whatsoever from eating azaleas.

3.  I don't know whether the LD50 dose response curve is linear or not,
but it might be useful to know at what dose the first animal died.
Perhaps 25% of the animals died at 1/2 the LD50 dose.  Perhaps three
animals died from eating the equivalent of two leaves.  Another more
relevant question, it seems to me,  would be to determine the dose at
which the symptoms appeared.  You could be pretty miserable (weak,
drooling, dehydrated, dizzy, with difficulty breathing) at a much
smaller dose.

4.  Not all animals respond the same,  and one step further, not all
people respond the same.  Some people might be more sensitive than
others (e.g., the first animal that died at the lowest dose compared to
the dose necessary to kill 100% of the test animals).  In the final
analysis, the LD50 dose is not especially meaningful if you are the
first animal that dies.

I can't take issue with your facts, but you haven't made a case that it
is OK to eat leaf gall.

Bill Miller
Bethesda, Maryland



S. M. Henning wrote:

>"William C. Miller III" <bill@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Let's start with the premise that all parts of the azalea are said to be
>>toxic.  Now consider that several ASA members have reported that they
>>
>>
>
>According to the Alberta Government
>(http://www.agric.gov.ab.ca/crops/hort/houseplants/poisonous.html)
>
>The toxin in azaleas is Grayanotoxin (formerly known as
>andromedotoxin, acetylandromedol,  and rhodotoxin), arbutin glucoside.
>
>The symptoms are:  nausea, salivation, vomiting, weakness, dizziness,
>difficulty  in breathing, loss of balance.
>
>Toxic dose: 100 to 225 grams of azalea (Rhododendron  occidentale)
>leaves must be eaten to seriously poison a 55 lb  child.   That is
>roughly a quarter to half a pound.  Table salt is much more toxic.
>The LD50 for NaCl is 3gms per kg or 75 grams for a 55 lb child.   I
>think I would rather eat an azalea.
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks Tadeusz!
     1) That supports some things I've read about the leaf galls .

     2) The search function doesn't work, at present, for the archives,
so I can't refer to the email in question about the watermelon taste.
Maybe someday.

     3) However, at least one of the people who told me about the taste
has written to me off line and said the following:

FWIW, I'm the one who had said *fresh* leaf galls are edible, and that
their taste is reminiscent of the white part of a watermelon rind. Old
galls turn black and nasty.

     The writer requested anonymity since he had better things to do than
get involved with a bunch of email chatter.  I don't.

     4) I referred to a Mystery Flower that I posted, as a picture, and
asked what azalea it was (it was, of course, a leaf gall).  I've looked
through my own email list and found that it was posted on 6/15/02, but
the picture has since been removed from the azaleas.org site, so I'm
attaching it again.

     5) Bill:  In my teenage-hood I helped by late father, a
toxicologist, in his lab.  He did a lot of LD50s, though he criticized
them to his colleagues for reasons lost to me but if it is really
important I can find someone to ask.  In any event, my weak memory was
that they were Gaussian, not linear.  If LD50s aren't, let me know.

     Barry

Tadeusz Dauksza wrote:

>Mr.Bill M;
>
> Here are some info from other sources;  the fact sheet is from Cornell.edu
>
> tadeusz- illinois-  in the 20's tonight going to 40's tomorrow, a heat wave.
>
>"Azalea nudiflora - Pinxter flower, Honeysuckle azalea. An irregular growth,
called May apple, that forms on the twigs is crisp, juicy and refreshing. It is
eaten as a thirst quencher, sliced and mixed into tossed salads, or pickled in
spiced vinegar." (S. Facciola, CORNUCOPIA II)
>
> AZALEA GALL
>
>Exobasidium vaccinii
>
>Introduction
>
>Azalea gall is a problem of widespread occurrence in this country. Pale green,
pink, white, or brown fleshy galls, caused by the fungus Exobasidium vaccinii,
may develop on leaves, branch tips, flower parts, and even on seedpods.
'Pinkster apples' is a term applied to these abnormal growths by those who enjoy
them as a food delicacy.
>Leaf & Bud Gall of Rhododendron, Azalea
>Pest Management Home Page
>Agriculture, Natural Resources, & Community Development Home Page
>
>
>

At 3:26 AM +0000 on 2/2/05, iltkyao wrote
>  The Azaleas had watery growths on them , some of
>them half the size of lemon. They are known as leaf galls,or "pinxter
>apples"; we used them to quench our thirst. ""

You can see some pictures of them at
<http://www.pbase.com/bstelloh/problems>. I think they are tastier
before they acquire their white coating. After that they turn black,
and then shrink down to small hard black lumps.

You can also read a brief discussion of them at
<http://www.azaleas.org/index.pl/azdiseases.html#lea>. A link
promises a longer discussion some day, which isn't there yet.

Regards,
Bob Stelloh  Hendersonville North Carolina  USDA Zone 7

Somewhere in my cluttered memory banks I remember
reading about a population of Western Azalea
(Rhododendron occidentale) that grows natively in
Mexico, possibly New Mexico.  I have searched for such
on the web with NO results. Does anyone know which
azalea and rhododendron species might be native to
Mexico and New Mexico?  If so, how about any details
on its habitat. I am thinking that an occidentale from
these two regions might grow better in the eastern
shore that ones from California and Oregon.  It was
raining here this morning and 34 F.
Cordially,
Mike Creel, The Azalea Nut
Zone 8a, Columbia, SC

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----- Original Message -----

From: S. M. Henning

To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com

Sent: 2/2/05 5:34:23 PM

Subject: Re: [AZ] Leaf Galls or "Pinxter apples" on Azaleas

"William C. Miller III" <bill@...> wrote:

>Let's start with the premise that all parts of the azalea are said to be
>toxic.  Now consider that several ASA members have reported that they

According to the Alberta Government
(http://www.agric.gov.ab.ca/crops/hort/houseplants/poisonous.html)

The toxin in azaleas is Grayanotoxin (formerly known as
andromedotoxin, acetylandromedol,  and rhodotoxin), arbutin glucoside.

The symptoms are:  nausea, salivation, vomiting, weakness, dizziness,
difficulty  in breathing, loss of balance.

Toxic dose: 100 to 225 grams of azalea (Rhododendron  occidentale)
leaves must be eaten to seriously poison a 55 lb  child.   That is
roughly a quarter to half a pound.  Table salt is much more toxic.
The LD50 for NaCl is 3gms per kg or 75 grams for a 55 lb child.   I
think I would rather eat an azalea.



--
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA   USA  Zone 6

Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/rhody.html

Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/rhodybooks.html


When you reply to this email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.  Also PLEASE tell us where you garden (city, state or at least your USDA zone).

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Has anyone provided White with a list or site that
shows the several good nurseries on the east coast
that deal in native azalea cultivars?  RareFind in New
Jersey is one, Lazy K in Georgia another.  I used to
give out a list of native azalea sources, and of
native plant sources, when I did more programs on
plant conservation, but my list is very out of date.
My favorite place, Transplant Nursery in Lavonial,
Georgia, is now strictly wholesale, though its azaleas
are sold by nurseries like We-Du in North Carolina.
Cordially, The Azalea Nut
Mike Creel, Zone 8a, SC

--- "E. WHITE SMITH" <bovees@...> wrote:

> I did not see the article but it was probably
> written by Leonard Frisbee.  I joined the Tacoma
> Chapter in 1960 and am still active.  Sad but I am
> the old guy now.  Frisbee also was in the Tacoma
> Chapter when it first started but he wanted to be
> Chapter President "for life".  So he left and
> started the Pacific Rhododendron Society which has
> now been gone for at least 10 years.  And Frisbee is
> long gone.
> Mike and Joe.  Good stuff and some of us really do
> care.  I found a small leaflet that my wife did
> probably 30 years ago and sent along with azaleas
> that they were shipping.  It list 15 native American
> species with size, color, bloom time and comments.
> At one time Bovees did a lot of these plants.  Now
> we do mostly Vireyas.  How about a good source in
> the SE or East coast that has good native azalea
> plants that I can have people go to or call.  We
> really do like to be helpful but sometimes don't
> know where to send people
>
>
> E. White Smith & Lucie Soren-Smith
> www.bovees.com




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----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Creel

To: ASA Azaleaphiles

Sent: 2/3/05 9:34:02 AM

Subject: [AZ] Azaleas & Rhododendrons in Mexico and New Mexico?

Somewhere in my cluttered memory banks I remember
reading about a population of Western Azalea
(Rhododendron occidentale) that grows natively in
Mexico, possibly New Mexico.  I have searched for such
on the web with NO results. Does anyone know which
azalea and rhododendron species might be native to
Mexico and New Mexico?  If so, how about any details
on its habitat. I am thinking that an occidentale from
these two regions might grow better in the eastern
shore that ones from California and Oregon.  It was
raining here this morning and 34 F.
Cordially,
Mike Creel, The Azalea Nut
Zone 8a, Columbia, SC

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Subject: Re: [AZ] Leaf Galls or "Pinxter apples" on Azaleas

Folks,

On this issue I will err on the side of caution. Yes, I have squeezed the leaf gall to see what came out and even tasted it, but refrained from the eating process. I guess, if I had no water, and I was thirsty, and the only other choice was a mud puddle or go parched, I would drink from the galls, but that is why I never  go into the wild without sufficient water bottles in my backpack. For safty sake, I do not go alone. One strike from a copperhead snake years ago taught me that lesson, the hard way.

 

Not being one educated in the various forms of fungi, I sort of lump this into the same catagory of going wild in the wild and eating any of the fungi I came accross. That is a good way to become poisoned.

 

Joe Schild-Hixson, TN USDA Zone 7a

Ask a friend to join the Azalea Society of America!

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: rich93023

To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com

Sent: 2/3/05 12:38:18 PM

Subject: [AZ] Re: Azaleas & Rhododendrons in Mexico and New Mexico?

--- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Mike Creel <mikeacreel@y...> wrote:
> Somewhere in my cluttered memory banks I remember
> reading about a population of Western Azalea
> (Rhododendron occidentale) that grows natively in
> Mexico, possibly New Mexico.  I have searched for such
> on the web with NO results. Does anyone know which
> azalea and rhododendron species might be native to
> Mexico and New Mexico?  If so, how about any details
> on its habitat. I am thinking that an occidentale from
> these two regions might grow better in the eastern
> shore that ones from California and Oregon.  It was
> raining here this morning and 34 F.
> Cordially,
> Mike Creel, The Azalea Nut
> Zone 8a, Columbia, SC
>

Mike,
I have read that R. occidentale grows in isolated areas in the
Peninsular Ranges of southern California (specifically in some of
the high, relatively wet valleys between Mt. San Jacinto and Mt.
Palomar), and possibly even further south into northern Baja
California.  (There are lots of them in the valleys on the western
slopes of the Sierra Nevada to the north.) I have never seen any
growing wild in Southern Ca., so I have no first-hand knowledge.
However, I have never heard of R. occidentale growing wild in either
New Mexico or mainland Mexico.  The climate of New Mexico is quite
varied (from alpine in the north to low desert in the south), but
all regions there are prone to extended droughts, so azaleas would
find the area pretty inhospitable.
Regards,
Rich Dodson

--- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Mike Creel <mikeacreel@y...> wrote:
> Somewhere in my cluttered memory banks I remember
> reading about a population of Western Azalea
> (Rhododendron occidentale) that grows natively in
> Mexico, possibly New Mexico.  I have searched for such
> on the web with NO results. Does anyone know which
> azalea and rhododendron species might be native to
> Mexico and New Mexico?  If so, how about any details
> on its habitat. I am thinking that an occidentale from
> these two regions might grow better in the eastern
> shore that ones from California and Oregon.  It was
> raining here this morning and 34 F.
> Cordially,
> Mike Creel, The Azalea Nut
> Zone 8a, Columbia, SC
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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We have plants of R. occidentale collected (cuttings growing) from Mt.
Palomar and have seen photos of them growing in the wild there.  Have
always  heard of it growing in Mexico but do not know anyone who has seen
it there.

E. White Smith & Lucie Soren-Smith
Portland, OR
www.bovees.com


> [Original Message]
> From: rich93023 <rtwodtwo@...>
> To: <azaleas@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: 2/3/2005 9:57:04 AM
> Subject: [AZ] Re: Azaleas & Rhododendrons in Mexico and New Mexico?
>
>
>
> Mike,
> I have read that R. occidentale grows in isolated areas in the
> Peninsular Ranges of southern California (specifically in some of
> the high, relatively wet valleys between Mt. San Jacinto and Mt.
> Palomar), and possibly even further south into northern Baja
> California.  (There are lots of them in the valleys on the western
> slopes of the Sierra Nevada to the north.) I have never seen any
> growing wild in Southern Ca., so I have no first-hand knowledge.
> However, I have never heard of R. occidentale growing wild in either
> New Mexico or mainland Mexico.  The climate of New Mexico is quite
> varied (from alpine in the north to low desert in the south), but
> all regions there are prone to extended droughts, so azaleas would
> find the area pretty inhospitable.
> Regards,
> Rich Dodson
>
> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Mike Creel <mikeacreel@y...> wrote:
> > Somewhere in my cluttered memory banks I remember
> > reading about a population of Western Azalea
> > (Rhododendron occidentale) that grows natively in
> > Mexico, possibly New Mexico.  I have searched for such
> > on the web with NO results. Does anyone know which
> > azalea and rhododendron species might be native to
> > Mexico and New Mexico?  If so, how about any details
> > on its habitat. I am thinking that an occidentale from
> > these two regions might grow better in the eastern
> > shore that ones from California and Oregon.  It was
> > raining here this morning and 34 F.
> > Cordially,
> > Mike Creel, The Azalea Nut
> > Zone 8a, Columbia, SC
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> When you reply to this email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as
context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.
Also PLEASE tell us where you garden (city, state or at least your USDA
zone).
>
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.jpg images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal.
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>
>

I would like to find yellow Triflora section pollen, either hexaploid
or tetraploid.
Hybrids: Jericho, Shamrock, Princess Anne
Species: R. lutescens, R. yunnanense

Larry Wallace

Sent by Medscape Mail: Free Portable E-mail for Professionals on the Move
http://www.medscape.com

I would like to find yellow Triflora section pollen, either hexaploid
or tetraploid.
Hybrids: Jericho, Shamrock, Princess Anne
Species: R. lutescens, R. yunnanense

Larry Wallace

Sent by Medscape Mail: Free Portable E-mail for Professionals on the Move
http://www.medscape.com

The point being that the toxin is well known and that there may or
may not be any in the liquid of the leaf galls.   It may be very pure
water or it may be deadly.  To generalize that anything associated
with azaleas is toxic is like saying that anything that is associated
with salt is toxic.  Some people are sodium sensative (hypertension)
and some are not.  Until someone either measures the toxins in the
liquid, it is in the category of unknown, not toxic.

>I can't take issue with your facts, but you haven't made a case that it
>is OK to eat leaf gall.

>  >According to the Alberta Government
>  >(http://www.agric.gov.ab.ca/crops/hort/houseplants/poisonous.html)
>  >
>  >The toxin in azaleas is Grayanotoxin (formerly known as
>  >andromedotoxin, acetylandromedol,  and rhodotoxin), arbutin glucoside.
>  >
>  >The symptoms are:  nausea, salivation, vomiting, weakness, dizziness,
>  >difficulty  in breathing, loss of balance.
>  >
>  >Toxic dose: 100 to 225 grams of azalea (Rhododendron  occidentale)
>  >leaves must be eaten to seriously poison a 55 lb  child.   That is
>  >roughly a quarter to half a pound.  Table salt is much more toxic.
>  >The LD50 for NaCl is 3gms per kg or 75 grams for a 55 lb child.   I
>  >think I would rather eat an azalea.
>

--
Cheers, Steve Henning; Secretary, Kutztown, PA Rotary Club,  USA

   http://home.earthlink.net/~rotarians - Our Rotary Club page

Steve,

I guess we just are going to have to not agree.  I'm not going to
encourage people to eat the galls or drink the fluid.  While Galle is
not my choice of toxicologist, he does mention that acetylandromedol is
found in rhododendron nectar and he reports Pliny's and Dioscorides'
accounts of solders poisoned by honey derived from Rhododendron
luteum.   In addition, the extensive section on your Web site states
several places that all parts of the plant are toxic and discusses
toxicity in humans, cattle, goats, sheep, birds, and bees, so I don't
feel too bad about proposing caution or generalizing in this matter.

I'll grant you that until someone measures the toxin in the liquid, we
don't know if the gall liquid is safe to drink or not.   Given what we
do know about presence of the toxin in the rest of the plant, I prefer
the more cautious position that the fluid is toxic until it is
demonstrated otherwise.

The advantage of my position is that I can afford to be wrong.

Bill Miller
Bethesda, Maryland

S. M. Henning wrote:

>The point being that the toxin is well known and that there may or
>may not be any in the liquid of the leaf galls.   It may be very pure
>water or it may be deadly.  To generalize that anything associated
>with azaleas is toxic is like saying that anything that is associated
>with salt is toxic.  Some people are sodium sensative (hypertension)
>and some are not.  Until someone either measures the toxins in the
>liquid, it is in the category of unknown, not toxic.
>
>
>
>>I can't take issue with your facts, but you haven't made a case that it
>>is OK to eat leaf gall.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>> >According to the Alberta Government
>> >(http://www.agric.gov.ab.ca/crops/hort/houseplants/poisonous.html)
>> >
>> >The toxin in azaleas is Grayanotoxin (formerly known as
>> >andromedotoxin, acetylandromedol,  and rhodotoxin), arbutin glucoside.
>> >
>> >The symptoms are:  nausea, salivation, vomiting, weakness, dizziness,
>> >difficulty  in breathing, loss of balance.
>> >
>> >Toxic dose: 100 to 225 grams of azalea (Rhododendron  occidentale)
>> >leaves must be eaten to seriously poison a 55 lb  child.   That is
>> >roughly a quarter to half a pound.  Table salt is much more toxic.
>> >The LD50 for NaCl is 3gms per kg or 75 grams for a 55 lb child.   I
>> >think I would rather eat an azalea.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

I planted two big beds with many types of azaleas last
spring. The azaleas were in full bloom when I planted
them and appeared to have a good summer and fall
season. I live in Ct. and currently all of the plants
are buried in the snow with no portion of them showing
whatsoever. Will being completely buried in snow
damage these plants ?If so, is there anything I can do
in the spring to minimize the damage done?


     Thank you
        Al


=====




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----- Original Message -----

From: al cubb

To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com

Sent: 2/4/05 11:17:38 AM

Subject: [AZ] Buried in snow

I planted two big beds with many types of azaleas last
spring. The azaleas were in full bloom when I planted
them and appeared to have a good summer and fall
season. I live in Ct. and currently all of the plants
are buried in the snow with no portion of them showing
whatsoever. Will being completely buried in snow
damage these plants ?If so, is there anything I can do
in the spring to minimize the damage done?


    Thank you
       Al

Al, as Joe Schild has indicated, snow is a good insulator and the plants
have been protected from low temperature damage. You did not indicate how
deep the snow is. The only potential damaging situation is that if the snow
is deep and wet, some branches could be broken at weak spots. This is
uncommon. Snow bringing down tree branches is a much greater danger and
sometimes more damage can be done by blundering into the planting area to
shake off snow than leaving the plants alone. I have a grouping of four 20
yr old Martha Hitchcock plants (normally selectively pruned to keep them
less than 4 ft tall) around a lamp post. They were compressed to about 18
inches of the ground by snow one winter. After the snow melted, they slowly
regained their stature through the spring with only a little permanent
compression, which was completely erased by new Spring growth.

Tom Schuetz
schuetz101@...
Mechanicsburg, PA USDA Zone 6a
----- Original Message -----
From: "al cubb" <onescarydude@...>
To: <azaleas@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 10:54 AM
Subject: [AZ] Buried in snow


>
> I planted two big beds with many types of azaleas last
> spring. The azaleas were in full bloom when I planted
> them and appeared to have a good summer and fall
> season. I live in Ct. and currently all of the plants
> are buried in the snow with no portion of them showing
> whatsoever. Will being completely buried in snow
> damage these plants ?If so, is there anything I can do
> in the spring to minimize the damage done?
>
>
>    Thank you
>       Al
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>
>
> When you reply to this email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as
> context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.
> Also PLEASE tell us where you garden (city, state or at least your USDA
> zone).
>
> We welcome images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480 pixel .jpg
> images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal.
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

WOW. a mexico question! something for me to do...
i will search during my travels and see if there are
any mexican natives.lots of evergreen azales are grown
in gardens here, but have yet to come across any
nativen species. MCS
--- Mike Creel <mikeacreel@...> wrote:

> Somewhere in my cluttered memory banks I remember
> reading about a population of Western Azalea
> (Rhododendron occidentale) that grows natively in
> Mexico, possibly New Mexico.  I have searched for
> such
> on the web with NO results. Does anyone know which
> azalea and rhododendron species might be native to
> Mexico and New Mexico?  If so, how about any details
> on its habitat. I am thinking that an occidentale
> from
> these two regions might grow better in the eastern
> shore that ones from California and Oregon.  It was
> raining here this morning and 34 F.
> Cordially,
> Mike Creel, The Azalea Nut
> Zone 8a, Columbia, SC
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>




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