bacnet-it-wg : Messages : 91-120 of 182

#91

From: Dave Robin <yahoo@...>
Date: Mon Mar 7, 2011 5:40 am
Subject: DR-035-16 Post Las Vegas update/experiment: Embracing Atom, GData, Pubsubhubbub

dave_robin_alc

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XML and IT Working Groups,

As a result of our discussions in Las Vegas, I've prepared a draft that answers the question "what would this look like using the established standard Atom Publishing Protocol, the widely deployed GData or OData extensions, and emerging standard Pub/Sub methods like PubSubHubbub?"

I've spend weeks writing this and I'm now at a loss for words here to introduce it. So just read it, I guess.

I included a part at the beginning introducing GData and OData a bit for those unfamiliar with them. Please Google around to see how both of them are taking off in a big way. In terms of picking a winner, I would have to say this is this is mostly GData with some cool ideas (plaintext and ''filter'') borrowed from OData.

Similarly, there are a couple Pub/Sub standards out there, but PubSubHubbub seems to be winning out over the much less capable RSS Cloud. Let me know what you think about using this as opposed to creating our own subscription and callback mechanism. The idea was to gain instant clients, and with this, you should be able to subscribe to trend updates using standard feed library code, and even a standard reader program, if you want to read at a page full of "published numbers".

Enjoy!

Dave

--------

p.s. here are the notes from the revision history:

DR-035-16, 2011/03/7

- based on question from Las Vegas: "Who are the clients and what code/protocols might they already be using?" and, related to that, "What would this look like if we fully embraced standards like Atom, GData, and PubSubHubbub?"

- adopting GData's 'fields' mechanism made 'partial', 'complete', 'truncated', 'depth', and 'absent' all go away!

- adopting PubSubHubbub loses the subscribe-multiple feature, but that was a new idea anyway that we don't have today in BACnet binary.

- changing the default history format to standard Atom feeds allows standard feed clients, and push distribution with PubSubHubbub, to work seamlessly with trend data. (that's the theory, anyway :-)

- adding a GoogleHealth-inspired 'digest' query parameter gives a new compact CSV history format for querying large quantities of history data (used to get history statistics, too).

- overall smaller spec: more consistent, fewer exceptions.

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#92

From: Dave Robin <yahoo@...>
Date: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:42 pm
Subject: More examples of Atom in our space.

dave_robin_alc

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Dear XML and IT folks,

As part of my smart grid activities, I wrote a document that begins to describe
a REST/Atom mapping for one of the smart grid protocols.  Since we have been
talking about Atom, and some of you may be wondering (as I have) if it's really
a good for for BACnet, I thought I'd pass this along to you so you could see
more examples of Atom Publishing Protocol, beyond what I've included in DR-035.

This document makes no mention of the BACnet/OData/Gdata extensions. It's just
straight Atom.  But, if Atom ends up being used for OASIS's Energy
Interoperation and NAESB's Energy Service Provider's Interface (they are leaning
towards Atom as well), and BACnet/WS uses it too, then... those smart grid
protocols *are* BACnet/WS (a proper subset of it, anyway).  Which ultimately
just means less code to write and maintain for us BACnet folks.

That was my thinking anyway.  But please tell me if this is not the right path
to head down.

Dave

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#93

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:22 pm
Subject: May 4, 2011 meeting - preliminary agenda

jimbutlerma

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Dear BACnet IT-WG members,

Our next meeting will be on May 4, 2011 from 8:30 a.m. until 10:30 a.m. at the Pacific Energy Center in San Francisco (http://www.pge.com/pec). The preliminary agenda is as follows:

1. Tentative: Discussion of IETF multicast security standards with Brian Weis, co-chair of the IETF’s Multicast Security Working Group (http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/msec/charter/). If Brian is not able to attend then this discussion will not be held.

2. Report on a design and prototyping exercise by Cisco and Cimetrics. There might also be a demo.

3. Presentation by Bernhard Isler about Siemens’ concept for BACnet IT.

A reminder: The wiki for the BACnet IT-WG is at http://bacnetit.cimetrics.com/bin/view/BACnetIT/WebHome.

Regards,

- Jim Butler

Cimetrics, Inc.

http://www.cimetrics.com

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#94

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Tue May 3, 2011 10:54 pm
Subject: May 4, 2011 meeting agenda

jimbutlerma

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Dear IT-WG members,

Our next meeting will be on May 4, 2011 from 8:30 a.m. until 10:30 a.m. at the Pacific Energy Center in San Francisco (http://www.pge.com/pec). The agenda is as follows:

1. Discussion of IETF multicast security standards with Brian Weis, co-chair of the IETF�s Multicast Security Working Group (http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/msec/charter/).

2. Presentation by Bernhard Isler, "BACnet for the IP Age": http://bacnetit.cimetrics.com/pub/BACnetIT/Meetings/703008-ST001-007-BACnetIT-Public-R2.pdf

3. Presentation/demo of a BACnet IT prototype by Charles Frankston.

A reminder: The wiki for the BACnet IT-WG is at http://bacnetit.cimetrics.com/bin/view/BACnetIT/WebHome.

- Jim Butler

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#95

From: bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:42 pm
Subject: New poll for bacnet-it-wg

bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com

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Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
bacnet-it-wg group:

We are planning a 2 1/2 day BACnet IT-WG summit to be held
this fall in Boston.  We have tentatively chosen the week of
September 19-23, 2011 in order to avoid conflicts with
other BACnet-related events.

If you are interested in attending the summit, which dates
do you prefer?  Note that the summit will conclude at noon
on the final day.


   o September 20-22, 2011
   o September 21-23, 2011
   o No preference among those dates.
   o That week is not convenient for me.


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bacnet-it-wg/surveys?id=2684024

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

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#96

From: Dave Robin <yahoo@...>
Date: Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:47 am
Subject: Update DR-037-17 (REST services), Please read BEFORE Montreal.

dave_robin_alc

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XML and IT members,

Here, at long last, is the greatly slimmed down DR-037-17. Thanks to all who provided input (including those that said "it's too long to read!").

There may be things to discuss or change still, but I thought it was important to move this from a "discussion document" to a "change proposal". So this version is the first to be an actual spec language with no homey commentary. Hang on to that copy of DR-037-16 if you want to reminisce about how we got here. This one is just requirements and spec changes.

GUPT folks: note that this further embraces Atom's standard <link> mechanism for representing relationships between entities. So rather than dedicated CSML attributes for linking an archive to its source, I am proposing to use a standard <link> element with a relation type of "source-id" or "source-loc" to refer back the original trend <feed>. You can still find these on the archive server with the 'filter' query parameters (specific examples for your use case still in the document).

Enjoy!

Dave

DR-035-17, 2011/06/14

� Shrunk, shrunk, shrunk. Removed a whole lot of unnecessary language that was just duplicating the definition of Atom Publishing Protocol.

� Made into spec-language: an actual Change Proposal... No more discussiony parts.

� Turned most requirements into more succinct prose, booted all examples to a dedicated clause.

� To be closer to standard Atom, moved our content under <content>, like OData.

� Embraced the "R" in REST by allowing multiple "Representations" of a single resource, following the GData 'alt' and OData '$format' style (e.g. using alt=feed, rather than a pseudo-child called ".feed").

� Allowed trend record feeds to contain mixture of plain text (the largely normal case) and CSML (for exceptions). This retains the brevity of simple plaintext and the full expressiveness of the BACnet log records when needed.

� Removed option for csv since handling the textual formats for non-normal records was getting too wishy-washy and becoming yet another syntax to learn. Non-normal trend records are now a fully-specified BACnetLogRecord in CSML, as noted above.

� Defined time series record formats for Trend Log Multiple, Event Log and non-BACnet data.

� Defined a simple feed for subscribing COV, just like subscribing to trend and event feeds

� Brought back Event subscriptions, alongside trend and COV, but made them easy by just using a feed of BACnetEventLogRecords for phase one. No event acking, summarizing, etc.

� Removed "nice to haves" for phase one:

o GData's 'fields', HTTP PATCH, and partial updating in general (it's still "experimental" in GData, after all... it's tricky)

o Removed ETags for now. Don't have equivalent in BACnet now, how needed is it?

o Removed min/max/avg digesting feature till we can think of a clean way to add it back.

� Adopted (i.e. paraphrased) PubSubHubbub into the standard for subscriptions and callbacks.

� And finally... stopped trying to pretend that we have a SOAP version of any of this.

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#97

From: Dave Robin <yahoo@...>
Date: Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:51 am
Subject: CONFUSION: I meant DR-035! Re: Update DR-037-17 (REST services), Please read BEFORE Montreal.

dave_robin_alc

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Replace "DR-037" with "DR-035" everywhere below, please. (too little sleep!)

Sorry.

Dave

On Jun 15, 2011, at 12:47 AM, Dave Robin wrote:

XML and IT members,

Here, at long last, is the greatly slimmed down DR-037-17. Thanks to all who provided input (including those that said "it's too long to read!").

There may be things to discuss or change still, but I thought it was important to move this from a "discussion document" to a "change proposal". So this version is the first to be an actual spec language with no homey commentary. Hang on to that copy of DR-037-16 if you want to reminisce about how we got here. This one is just requirements and spec changes.

GUPT folks: note that this further embraces Atom's standard <link> mechanism for representing relationships between entities. So rather than dedicated CSML attributes for linking an archive to its source, I am proposing to use a standard <link> element with a relation type of "source-id" or "source-loc" to refer back the original trend <feed>. You can still find these on the archive server with the 'filter' query parameters (specific examples for your use case still in the document).

Enjoy!

Dave

DR-035-17, 2011/06/14
�       Shrunk, shrunk, shrunk. Removed a whole lot of unnecessary language that was just duplicating the definition of Atom Publishing Protocol.
�       Made into spec-language: an actual Change Proposal... No more discussiony parts.
�       Turned most requirements into more succinct prose, booted all examples to a dedicated clause.
�       To be closer to standard Atom, moved our content under <content>, like OData.
�       Embraced the "R" in REST by allowing multiple "Representations" of a single resource, following the GData 'alt' and OData '$format' style (e.g. using alt=feed, rather than a pseudo-child called ".feed").
�       Allowed trend record feeds to contain mixture of plain text (the largely normal case) and CSML (for exceptions). This retains the brevity of simple plaintext and the full expressiveness of the BACnet log records when needed.
�       Removed option for csv since handling the textual formats for non-normal records was getting too wishy-washy and becoming yet another syntax to learn. Non-normal trend records are now a fully-specified BACnetLogRecord in CSML, as noted above.
�       Defined time series record formats for Trend Log Multiple, Event Log and non-BACnet data.
�       Defined a simple feed for subscribing COV, just like subscribing to trend and event feeds
�       Brought back Event subscriptions, alongside trend and COV, but made them easy by just using a feed of BACnetEventLogRecords for phase one. No event acking, summarizing, etc.
�       Removed "nice to haves" for phase one:
o   GData's 'fields', HTTP PATCH, and partial updating in general (it's still "experimental" in GData, after all... it's tricky)
o   Removed ETags for now. Don't have equivalent in BACnet now, how needed is it?
o   Removed min/max/avg digesting feature till we can think of a clean way to add it back.
�       Adopted (i.e. paraphrased) PubSubHubbub into the standard for subscriptions and callbacks.
�       And finally... stopped trying to pretend that we have a SOAP version of any of this.

<DR-035-17 New BACnet-WS Services.doc>

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#98

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:21 pm
Subject: Upcoming BACnet IT-WG meetings

jimbutlerma

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Dear BACnet IT-WG members,

Our next meeting will be held on June 26, 2011 from 8-10 a.m. at the Hilton
Montreal Bonaventure, Fontaine Salon H.  The focus of that meeting will be
interoperability issues related to the future use of IT protocols in BACnet.

We are in the process of planning an IT-WG summit to be held in Boston during
the week of September 19-23, 2011.  This will be a 2� day technical working
session that should result in BACnet committee proposals.  If you are interested
in attending, please express your date preference here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bacnet-it-wg/surveys?id=2684024

A reminder: The wiki for the BACnet IT-WG is at
http://bacnetit.cimetrics.com/bin/view/BACnetIT/WebHome.

- Jim Butler

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#99

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Wed Aug 3, 2011 6:38 pm
Subject: BACnet IT-WG summit

jimbutlerma

Send Email

Dear BACnet IT-WG members,

As announced in Montreal, the IT-WG summit will be held in Boston from September
21 through 23, ending at noon on the 23rd.  We are in the process of obtaining a
meeting room in downtown Boston or Cambridge.  Further details will be announced
by the end of next week.

A reminder: The wiki for the BACnet IT-WG is at
http://bacnetit.cimetrics.com/bin/view/BACnetIT/WebHome.

- Jim Butler

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#100

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:49 pm
Subject: RE: BACnet IT-WG summit

jimbutlerma

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Dear BACnet IT-WG members,

We are still working on the location of the IT-WG summit.  I am sorry for the
delay, and I will send an update on Monday.

- Jim Butler


-----Original Message-----
From: bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of James F. Butler
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 2:39 PM
To: 'bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [bacnet-it-wg] BACnet IT-WG summit

Dear BACnet IT-WG members,

As announced in Montreal, the IT-WG summit will be held in Boston from September
21 through 23, ending at noon on the 23rd.  We are in the process of obtaining a
meeting room in downtown Boston or Cambridge.  Further details will be announced
by the end of next week.

A reminder: The wiki for the BACnet IT-WG is at
http://bacnetit.cimetrics.com/bin/view/BACnetIT/WebHome

- Jim Butler



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

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#101

From: donald.a.gottschalk@...
Date: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:53 pm
Subject: AUTO: Donald A Gottschalk/CORP/Johnson_Controls is out of the office. (returning 08/22/2011)

cgottsdo

Send Email

I am out of the office until 08/22/2011.

Gone fishing, I'll respond when I return.


Note: This is an automated response to your message  "?[bacnet-it-wg] RE:
BACnet IT-WG summit" sent on 8/18/2011 11:49:18 AM.

This is the only notification you will receive while this person is away.

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#102

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:02 pm
Subject: RE: BACnet IT-WG summit

jimbutlerma

Send Email

Dear BACnet IT-WG members,

The IT-WG summit will be held in downtown Boston at the following location:

WorkBar Boston (http://workbarboston.com/)
711 Atlantic Ave, Lower Level
Boston, MA 02111

The closest subway station is South Station.

We will meet from 9:00 until 5:00 on September 21, 8:30 until 5:00 on September
22 and 8:30 until noon on September 23.  We are tentatively planning a group
dinner on the evening of the 21st (Wednesday).

There are a number of hotels within walking distance of the meeting venue; you
are welcome to choose the one that best meets your needs.

PLEASE let me know (mailto:jimbutler@...) if you are planning to
attend.  Space is limited in the meeting room that we have reserved.

A meeting agenda will be distributed next week.  If there are particular items
that you would like to see on the agenda, please let me know as soon as
possible.

Thanks,

- Jim Butler

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#103

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:35 pm
Subject: Last call - BACnet IT-WG Summit

jimbutlerma

Send Email

I sent out the agenda and background info to all of the people who said that they are attending the BACnet IT-WG Summit this week. If you are planning to attend and haven’t told me, please write to me ASAP. We probably have space in the meeting room for one more person.

Thanks,

- Jim Butler

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#104

From: "Isler, Bernhard" <bernhard.isler@...>
Date: Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:03 pm
Subject: BI-040 Update on BACnet IT Twiki

bi71259

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Hi all,

I have made an update of BI-040. The rev 3 is now available on the Twiki:

http://bacnetit.cimetrics.com/pub/BACnetIT/Meetings/BI-040-3.doc

There were updates based on the Boston discussion, and an Open Issues List is added to support discussion in Atlanta.

Best,

Bernhard

Bernhard Isler
Siemens Switzerland Ltd
Building Technologies Division
IC BT CPS GDT AS
Gubelstrasse 22
CH-6301 Zug, Switzerland

Tel: +41 (41) 724 33 87
Mob: +41 (79) 561 77 23
Fax: +41 (41) 723 48 94

mailto:bernhard.isler@...
http://www.siemens.com/buildingtechnologies

Note: This e-mail may contain confidential information. If you have received this e-mail without being the proper recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, copying or distribution is strictly prohibited. Please inform us immediately and destroy the original transmittal. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author of this e-mail and do not necessarily represent those of Siemens Switzerland Ltd, unless otherwise specifically stated.

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#105

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:40 pm
Subject: October 26, 2011 IT-WG meeting topic

jimbutlerma

Send Email

Dear BACnet IT-WG members,

Please review BI-040-3 prior to our meeting on Wednesday morning. The contents of this document will be the primary topic of discussion at our meeting on Wednesday morning at Georgia Tech. CF-001-1 (introduced at our recent meeting in Boston) might also be discussed.

Both documents can be downloaded from the Meetings page on our TWiki: http://bacnetit.cimetrics.com/bin/view/BACnetIT/Meetings

- Jim Butler

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#106

From: bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:30 pm
Subject: New poll for bacnet-it-wg

bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com

Send Email

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
bacnet-it-wg group:

We are planning a teleconference to continue the discussion of BI-040-3 that was
started at our recent meeting in Atlanta.
If you are interested in participating in the discussion, please choose the
dates/times that you would be available.  This poll closes on November 17.


   o Tuesday, November 22, 2011, from 11:00 a.m. until 12:30 p.m. EST
   o Monday, November 28, 2011, from 11:00 a.m. until 12:30 p.m. EST
   o Thursday, December 1, 2011, from 11:00 a.m. until 12:30 p.m. EST


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bacnet-it-wg/surveys?id=2705279

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

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#107

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:12 pm
Subject: BACnet-IT teleconference November 28, 2011

jimbutlerma

Send Email

We will be holding a teleconference to continue the discussion of BI-040-3 that
was started at our recent meeting in Atlanta.  The teleconference will be held
on Monday, November 28, 2011, from 11:00 a.m. until 12:30 p.m. EST.  Call-in
details will be sent to this e-mail list next week, and revised discussion
documents (if any) will be posted on our TWiki.

Regards,

- Jim Butler

Reply | Messages in this Topic (10)

#108

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:04 pm
Subject: RE: BACnet-IT teleconference November 28, 2011

jimbutlerma

Send Email

We will use WebEx for our teleconference on November 28. Call-in details are as follows:

-------------------------------------------------------

Meeting information

-------------------------------------------------------

Topic: BACnet IT-WG

Date: Monday, November 28, 2011

Time: 11:00 am, Eastern Standard Time (New York, GMT-05:00)

Meeting Number: 804 537 854

Meeting Password: (This meeting does not require a password.)

-------------------------------------------------------

To start or join the online meeting

-------------------------------------------------------

Go to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/j.php?ED=165358532&UID=490441327&RT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D

-------------------------------------------------------

Audio conference information

-------------------------------------------------------

Call-in toll number (US/Canada): +1-408-600-3600

Access code: 804 537 854

-------------------------------------------------------

For assistance

-------------------------------------------------------

1. Go to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/mc

2. On the left navigation bar, click "Support".

To add this meeting to your calendar program (for example Microsoft Outlook), click this link:

https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/j.php?ED=165358532&UID=490441327&ICS=MS&LD=1&RD=2&SHA2=3kXNxTtt7HA5LjXIyIqoVS/jkZ-FeQyx5GbCuueB/6I=&ST=1

To check whether you have the appropriate players installed for UCF (Universal Communications Format) rich media files, go to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/systemdiagnosis.php.

http://www.webex.com

CCM:+14086003600x804537854#

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows audio and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed during the session to be recorded. You should inform all meeting attendees prior to recording if you intend to record the meeting. Please note that any such recordings may be subject to discovery in the event of litigation.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (10)

#109

From: Kerry Lynn <kerlyn2001@...>
Date: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:04 pm
Subject: Re: RE: BACnet-IT teleconference November 28, 2011

kerlyn2001

Send Email

Hi Jim,

Hope things are well with you. �Just confirming that I'll be joining this

call (from L.A.) �Will there be an agenda posted?

Thanks, -K-

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:04 PM, James F. Butler <jimbutler@...> wrote:

�

We will use WebEx for our teleconference on November 28.� Call-in details are as follows:

�

-------------------------------------------------------

Meeting information

-------------------------------------------------------

Topic: BACnet IT-WG

Date: Monday, November 28, 2011

Time: 11:00 am, Eastern Standard Time (New York, GMT-05:00)

Meeting Number: 804 537 854

Meeting Password: (This meeting does not require a password.)

�

-------------------------------------------------------

To start or join the online meeting

-------------------------------------------------------

Go to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/j.php?ED=165358532&UID=490441327&RT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D

�

-------------------------------------------------------

Audio conference information

-------------------------------------------------------

Call-in toll number (US/Canada): +1-408-600-3600

�

Access code: 804 537 854

�

-------------------------------------------------------

For assistance

-------------------------------------------------------

1. Go to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/mc

2. On the left navigation bar, click "Support".

To add this meeting to your calendar program (for example Microsoft Outlook), click this link:

https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/j.php?ED=165358532&UID=490441327&ICS=MS&LD=1&RD=2&SHA2=3kXNxTtt7HA5LjXIyIqoVS/jkZ-FeQyx5GbCuueB/6I=&ST=1

�

To check whether you have the appropriate players installed for UCF (Universal Communications Format) rich media files, go to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/systemdiagnosis.php.

�

http://www.webex.com

�

CCM:+14086003600x804537854#

�

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows audio and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed during the session to be recorded. You should inform all meeting attendees prior to recording if you intend to record the meeting. Please note that any such recordings may be subject to discovery in the event of litigation.

�

�

�

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#110

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:16 pm
Subject: RE: RE: BACnet-IT teleconference November 28, 2011

jimbutlerma

Send Email

The agenda for tomorrow’s teleconference is to continue the discussion of BI-040-3 that we began in Atlanta. BI-040-3 can be downloaded from the Attachments area of http://bacnetit.cimetrics.com/bin/view/BACnetIT/Meetings

- Jim Butler

From: bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kerry Lynn
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 2:05 PM
To: bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bacnet-it-wg] RE: BACnet-IT teleconference November 28, 2011

Hi Jim,

Hope things are well with you. Just confirming that I'll be joining this

call (from L.A.) Will there be an agenda posted?

Thanks, -K-

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:04 PM, James F. Butler <jimbutler@...> wrote:

We will use WebEx for our teleconference on November 28. Call-in details are as follows:

-------------------------------------------------------

Meeting information

-------------------------------------------------------

Topic: BACnet IT-WG

Date: Monday, November 28, 2011

Time: 11:00 am, Eastern Standard Time (New York, GMT-05:00)

Meeting Number: 804 537 854

Meeting Password: (This meeting does not require a password.)

-------------------------------------------------------

To start or join the online meeting

-------------------------------------------------------

Go to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/j.php?ED=165358532&UID=490441327&RT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D

-------------------------------------------------------

Audio conference information

-------------------------------------------------------

Call-in toll number (US/Canada): +1-408-600-3600

Access code: 804 537 854

-------------------------------------------------------

For assistance

-------------------------------------------------------

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2. On the left navigation bar, click "Support".

To add this meeting to your calendar program (for example Microsoft Outlook), click this link:

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#111

From: bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:49 pm
Subject: New poll for bacnet-it-wg

bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com

Send Email

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
bacnet-it-wg group:

We are planning a series of teleconferences to continue the discussion of
BI-040-3. If you are interested in participating in the discussion, please
choose the dates/times that you would be available. This poll will end at 5:00
p.m. EST on December 1.

   o Monday December 5, 2011, 11:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. EST
   o Monday December 12, 2011, 11:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. EST
   o Monday December 19, 2011, 11:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. EST


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bacnet-it-wg/surveys?id=2707710

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Reply | Messages in this Topic (10)

#112

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Fri Dec 2, 2011 1:30 pm
Subject: BACnet IT-WG teleconference: December 5, 2011

jimbutlerma

Send Email

Dear BACnet IT-WG members,

We will continue our discussion of document BI-040-3 during our next teleconference, which will be held on Monday, December 5, 2011 from 11:00 a.m. until 12:30 p.m. EST. Connection instructions are below. Note that we will use WebEx for the teleconference.

- Jim Butler

-------------------------------------------------------
To join the online meeting (Now from mobile devices!)
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1. Go to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/j.php?ED=165975162&UID=1231353992&RT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D
2. If requested, enter your name and email address.
3. If a password is required, enter the meeting password: (This meeting does not require a password.)
4. Click "Join".

To view in other time zones or languages, please click the link:
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-------------------------------------------------------
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Access code:803 965 562

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For assistance
-------------------------------------------------------
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2. On the left navigation bar, click "Support".

You can contact me at:
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To add this meeting to your calendar program (for example Microsoft Outlook), click this link:
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The playback of UCF (Universal Communications Format) rich media files requires appropriate players. To view this type of rich media files in the meeting, please check whether you have the players installed on your computer by going to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/systemdiagnosis.php.

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#113

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Thu Dec 8, 2011 3:07 pm
Subject: BACnet IT-WG teleconference: December 12, 2011

jimbutlerma

Send Email

Dear BACnet IT-WG members,

We will continue our discussion of document BI-040-3 during our next teleconference, which will be held on Monday, December 12, 2011 from 11:00 a.m. until 12:30 p.m. EST. Connection instructions are below. Note that we will use WebEx for the teleconference.

This will be our final teleconference this year.

- Jim Butler

-------------------------------------------------------
To join the online meeting (Now from mobile devices!)
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/j.php?ED=166140162&UID=1231995937&RT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D
2. If requested, enter your name and email address.
3. If a password is required, enter the meeting password: (This meeting does not require a password.)
4. Click "Join".

To view in other time zones or languages, please click the link:
https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/j.php?ED=166140162&UID=1231995937&ORT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D

-------------------------------------------------------
To join the audio conference only
-------------------------------------------------------
Call-in toll number (US/Canada): +1-408-600-3600

Access code:808 150 002

-------------------------------------------------------
For assistance
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/mc
2. On the left navigation bar, click "Support".

You can contact me at:
webex@...

To add this meeting to your calendar program (for example Microsoft Outlook), click this link:
https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/j.php?ED=166140162&UID=1231995937&ICS=MI&LD=1&RD=2&ST=1&SHA2=6w7UWeiUQ-dcLB33HhDbI/5v4vd0qnby7U6PfXkDH2s=&RT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D

The playback of UCF (Universal Communications Format) rich media files requires appropriate players. To view this type of rich media files in the meeting, please check whether you have the players installed on your computer by going to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/systemdiagnosis.php.

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IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows audio and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed during the session to be recorded. By joining this session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to the recording, discuss your concerns with the meeting host prior to the start of the recording or do not join the session. Please note that any such recordings may be subject to discovery in the event of litigation.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#114

From: Kerry Lynn <kerlyn2001@...>
Date: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:42 pm
Subject: Group Communication reference

kerlyn2001

Send Email

Greetings,

As I mentioned on today's telco, there's s draft in the IETF CoRE WG status pages

that might prove to be a useful starting point for discussion of multicast issues:

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rahman-core-groupcomm. �See in particular the

references [STUDY1] and [STUDY2] for a deeper analysis. �The basis of this draft

was originally in an earlier version of�http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vanderstok-core-bc

and it was split out into a separate draft to concentrate the group comms issues in

one place. �Still not quite there, but future CoRE discussion of this topic will be

placed in the -groupcomm draft.

Happy holidays everyone.

-K-

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#115

From: <ThomasJBrennan@...>
Date: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:23 pm
Subject: BACnet ranking in AHAM study of Smart Appliances

brennantj3

Send Email

Here is some interesting grist for the BACnet-IT group to chew on:

Assessment of Communication Standards for Smart Appliances: The Home Appliance Industry’s Technical Evaluation of Communication Protocols (October 2010)

http://www.aham.org/ht/a/GetDocumentAction/i/50696

See in particular Chart 3 (pg20), where BACnet is ranked against other “Application Layer” protocols.

This is home automation is, of course, not our target market, but still this is interesting as an external assessment, and most of the measures don’t turn on home-specific qualities.

I think that the particular measure where BACnet scores notably low here is Security Mechanisms.

We have, of course, discussed Security in Boston and in our other meetings, but I’m proposing that this independent view points to this as a particularly weak area – an existential threat - that needs to be emphasized in the IT work, perhaps equal to “IT friendly”. (If BACnet is ranked low in Security for the home market, we should think that the C&I market will be more tolerant?) And that the Security Mechanism itself needs to be “IT Friendly” – does Addendum g qualify?

Tom Brennan

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#116

From: bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:19 pm
Subject: New poll for bacnet-it-wg

bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com

Send Email

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
bacnet-it-wg group:

The BACnet IT-WG will have one teleconference in January prior to our meeting in
Chicago.  During this teleconference, we will discuss issues raised during our
discussion of BI-040-3.

Please indicate the dates/times when you would be able to participate in a
January teleconference.  This poll will end at 5:30 p.m. EST on Wednesday,
December 21.

   o Friday, January 6, 2012, 11:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. EST
   o Monday, January 9, 2012, 11:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. EST
   o Friday, January 13, 2012, 11:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. EST


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bacnet-it-wg/surveys?id=2709854

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Reply | Messages in this Topic (10)

#117

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:54 pm
Subject: BACnet IT-WG teleconference: January 9, 2012

jimbutlerma

Send Email

Dear BACnet IT-WG members,

Our next teleconference will be held on January 9, 2012 from 11:00 a.m. until 12:30 p.m. EST. During this teleconference we will discuss issues that were raised during the discussion of BI-040-3, including transport options. This will be our final teleconference prior to the ASHRAE Winter Meeting in Chicago.

Connection instructions for the January 9 teleconference are below. Note that we will use WebEx for the teleconference.

- Jim Butler

-------------------------------------------------------
To join the online meeting (Now from mobile devices!)
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/j.php?ED=167430007&UID=1236770477&RT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D
2. If requested, enter your name and email address.
3. If a password is required, enter the meeting password: (This meeting does not require a password.)
4. Click "Join".

To view in other time zones or languages, please click the link:
https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/j.php?ED=167430007&UID=1236770477&ORT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D

-------------------------------------------------------
To join the audio conference only
-------------------------------------------------------
Call-in toll number (US/Canada): +1-408-600-3600

Access code (meeting number): 805 095 679

-------------------------------------------------------
For assistance
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/mc
2. On the left navigation bar, click "Support".

You can contact me at:
webex@...

To add this meeting to your calendar program (for example Microsoft Outlook), click this link:
https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/j.php?ED=167430007&UID=1236770477&ICS=MI&LD=1&RD=2&ST=1&SHA2=ZTeqH9dIsXi6VEYjpRPKras8UGpLeInTBcCHF-9vvng=&RT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D

The playback of UCF (Universal Communications Format) rich media files requires appropriate players. To view this type of rich media files in the meeting, please check whether you have the players installed on your computer by going to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/systemdiagnosis.php.

Sign up for a free trial of WebEx
http://www.webex.com/go/mcemfreetrial

http://www.webex.com

CCP:+14086003600x805095679#

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows audio and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed during the session to be recorded. By joining this session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to the recording, discuss your concerns with the meeting host prior to the start of the recording or do not join the session. Please note that any such recordings may be subject to discovery in the event of litigation.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#118

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Mon Jan 9, 2012 3:26 am
Subject: RE: BACnet IT-WG teleconference: January 9, 2012

jimbutlerma

Send Email

Dear BACnet IT-WG members,

A reminder: We have a meeting tomorrow (Monday) using WebEx. The connection instructions are in the message below.

- Jim Butler

From: bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James F. Butler
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2011 2:54 PM
To: 'bacnet-it-wg@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [bacnet-it-wg] BACnet IT-WG teleconference: January 9, 2012

Dear BACnet IT-WG members,

Connection instructions for the January 9 teleconference are below. Note that we will use WebEx for the teleconference.

- Jim Butler

-------------------------------------------------------
To join the online meeting (Now from mobile devices!)
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/j.php?ED=167430007&UID=1236770477&RT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D
2. If requested, enter your name and email address.
3. If a password is required, enter the meeting password: (This meeting does not require a password.)
4. Click "Join".

To view in other time zones or languages, please click the link:
https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/j.php?ED=167430007&UID=1236770477&ORT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D

-------------------------------------------------------
To join the audio conference only
-------------------------------------------------------
Call-in toll number (US/Canada): +1-408-600-3600

Access code (meeting number): 805 095 679

-------------------------------------------------------
For assistance
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/mc
2. On the left navigation bar, click "Support".

You can contact me at:
webex@...

To add this meeting to your calendar program (for example Microsoft Outlook), click this link:
https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/j.php?ED=167430007&UID=1236770477&ICS=MI&LD=1&RD=2&ST=1&SHA2=ZTeqH9dIsXi6VEYjpRPKras8UGpLeInTBcCHF-9vvng=&RT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D

The playback of UCF (Universal Communications Format) rich media files requires appropriate players. To view this type of rich media files in the meeting, please check whether you have the players installed on your computer by going to https://cimetrics.webex.com/cimetrics/systemdiagnosis.php.

Sign up for a free trial of WebEx
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http://www.webex.com

CCP:+14086003600x805095679#

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows audio and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed during the session to be recorded. By joining this session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to the recording, discuss your concerns with the meeting host prior to the start of the recording or do not join the session. Please note that any such recordings may be subject to discovery in the event of litigation.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#119

From: Dave Robin <yahoo@...>
Date: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:15 pm
Subject: Update to Addendum 2010am (BACnet Web Services)

dave_robin_alc

Send Email

XML and IT working groups,

After much delay caused by a many-month in-depth study of OData, prompted by discussions in some smart grid groups, here is the updated addendum.

In summary: OData's rapidly growing popularity and developer ecosystem, and the possibility of implementing a BACnet/WS server with Microsoft's WCF Data Services, led to implementation experimentation and had much influence on the proposed changes here.

HOWEVER, in the end, OData's data model is still too immature to support BACnet data, so a COMPLETE implementation in WCF is just not possible.

BUT, an implementation using custom data serializers still seems in reach, so I made the BACnet protocol compatible in almost every way except the actual property values.

STILL, keeping in mind that some of us will write this from scratch, with maybe just an XML library at our disposal, I kept things as simple as possible, always trying to "see the C code" behind each requirement.

In the process, several nice things happened. Changing the $filter syntax made it nicer to read and easier to implement by hand. Using $filter to select objects and using $select for properties made a nice kind of ReadPropertyMultiple-like capability.

Following OData's lead in fixing rules for when to use Atom, direct XML and plain text greatly simplified client and server optionality. Removing options for obscure or academic use cases is always good.

Here is a summary of the OData investigation:

What works well:

- Objects: representing BACnet objects as "entities" is a good level for addressing, naming, semantic tagging, and relationships.

- Properties: concept of "properties" is consistent between BACnet objects and OData entities

- Navigation Properties: properties that are pointers (i.e. relationships) are promoted to <link> elements on the object/entity and can be used naturally as path segments in the URI (but see caveat below)

- RPM works naturally with OData properties, using $select

- RP works naturally with URI ability to drill down to a single property, minus the verbose object wrapper

- sub-property access URI defined to drill down to access parts of properties (with the exception of arrays and list members)

- $value concept allows XML or plain text access to primitive fields

What doesn't work well:

- BACnet objects have a large number of defined optional properties. OData only was "nullable", which means that all defined properties are required to be in the XML, with the "Absent" ones marked as null="true"

, Some BACnet data can be "present but NULL" and OData is only nullable and so can't distinguish between absent and NULL..

- No direct support for CHOICE, only nullable fields (all choices would be present with only one non-null?)

- No support for ordered arrays. OData only has unordered "bag" collections, and has no URI syntax for access individual members.

- No support for ALE/RLE since bags are sub-property access only and are not addressable as a "feed" for POST/DELETE operations.

- No concept of inheritance: "Open Types" are restricted to using the base type name only.

- No polymorphism, so no "Any" datatype (would have to use a choice of all primitives and an "open" constructed type)

- Navigation Properties can only point to entities (objects), while BACnet references can point to properties (with optional index).

- Annoying: Namespaces and prefixes are comically long (assumes gzip): <link rel="schemas.microsoft.com/ado/2007/08/dataservices/related/OurPart" ... >

- Scary: OData is a little too active: constantly expanding and changing - the assumption is that libraries are easily updated and are not limited by size or computing power.

Therefore...

Summary of Changes to Addendum:

� Simplfied the rules (i.e. no options) for when to use Atom vs XML vs plain text, following OData's model for using an Atom wrapper at the object level, where most metadata, semantics and relationships are defined, and using direct XML at property level and below, and using plain text for terminal facets like value, count, etc.

� A reviewer note from the "Objects and Properties" section sums up a lot of the changes: [Reviewer note: This distinction of returning objects as Atom entries and properties as unwrapped XML is consistent with OData's view of objects and properties. In addition, BACnet is consistent with OData's further distinction of facets, returning them in plain text. (e.g. OData's $value and BACnet's :Value). While many of the requirements here are intentionally compatible with WCF Data Services and OData, the actual property data in the Atom <content> does not use the OData <m:properties> format or "Edm:" data types because the data type and access requirements of BACnet (arrays, choices, extensible enums, list item manipulation, ANY, optional items, wild cards) cannot be handled by OData or the EDM at this time. Implementations based on WCF will have to provide custom data serializers for CSML formatted properties]

� Made filtering syntax match that of OData's $filter rather than a subset of XPath. This is much more natural for working with property values and makes for much simpler/shorter expressions

� Adopted OData's $select to select which properties are returned.

� Brought back CSV format for efficient transfer of bulk trend data.

� Put in more language to indicate that localization is optional (it always was, but it didn't say so up front).

� To aid in discovery of things modeled as BACnet objects, standard feeds for objects, interfaces, and devices are more fully defined.

� Added explicit requirement for the use of an Atom Publishing Protocol "service document" which defines standard roots for collections like /.objects, /.interfaces, /devices, etc.

� Removed feature for .event-history feed on individual nodes. While COV (.value-changes) was retained, individualized event history subscriptions on a single node was seen as too unusual to be defined at this time.

� Made more use of Atom <link> elements. For example a .../.history feed can point to its BACnet Trend Log object source, if it has one, using the standard Atom "via" relationship, and to its subscribers with a BACnet-specific rel="http://bacnet.org/rel#subscriber" relationship.

� Allowed the concept of supporting multiple devices with objects associated to those devices. There is no concept of "primary device", they are all peers. The /.sysinfo nodes are still there to identify the server itself.

� Specified how to access the Log_Buffer property of BACnet Log objects.

� Got rid of dedicated published-min, published-max, updated-min and updated-max query parameters since the new $filter syntax can do that now.

� With the increased use of XML, changed the confusing "data model attributes" to "facets", borrowing the word and meaning from XML schema.

� Rewrote the path description in ABNF and added OData compatible aliases /$value and /$count.

And, of course, addressed the public review comments.

Enjoy!

See you in Chicago.

Dave

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#120

From: "James F. Butler" <jimbutler@...>
Date: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:29 pm
Subject: Request for agenda items: IT-WG meeting in Chicago

jimbutlerma

Send Email

Dear BACnet IT-WG members,

I hope to see many of you in Chicago on Sunday morning at our face-to-face meeting. Please send me any items for the meeting agenda ASAP.

If you have not participated in our teleconferences over the past couple of months, I recommend that you look at BI-040-3.doc for background; you can download that document from the Meetings page in our wiki: http://bacnetit.cimetrics.com/bin/view/BACnetIT/Meetings.

Thanks,

- Jim Butler

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