Mersi mult.


--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Dada Mamusa" <dada_mamusa@...> wrote:
>
>
> I announce to you  the 7th and the 8th numbers of NEMVS Magazine, a periodic
edited by the Sarmizegetusa Cultural Association . You can find the digital
version at the following address:
>
>  www.enciclopedia-dacica.ro/nemvs/nemvs3.htm
>
> The summary contains the following articles:
>
>
> DENIS MEMET
> Summum bonum / 5 â€" Summum bonum / 7
>
> PHILLIP DAVIS
> Two Hoards Revisited Denarii / 10 â€" Rediscutarea problemei imitarii
denarilor romani republicani, pe baza a doua tezaure / 19
>
> CATALIN BORANGIC
> Sica. Tipologie si functionalitate / 22 â€" Sica. Tipollogy and
Functionability / 35
>
> CRISTINEL PLANTOS, GLIGOR MIRCEA
> Descoperiri apartinând celei de a doua epoci a fierului în bazinul Ampoiului
(judetul Alba) / 74 â€" Second Iron Era Archaeological Discoveries in the Ampoi
Valley / 95
>
> VOLKER WOLLMANN
> "Diaspora" monumentelor arheologico-epigrafice din centre urbane si militare
ale Daciei Superior / 100 â€" The "Diaspora" of the Archaeological-Epigraphic
Monuments from the Urban and Military Centers of Dacia Superior / 130
>
> VLADIMIR AGRIGOROAEI
> Asediul Salonicului (1185): perspectiva cronicilor italiene / 132 â€" The
Siege of Thessaloniki (1185) in the Italian Chronicles of the Same Period / 174
>
> CRISTIAN IOAN POPA
> Un monument medieval disparut: biserica sasilor din Vinerea (judetul Alba) /
176 â€" A Lost Mediaeval Monument: the Saxon Church from Vinerea (Alba county) /
186
>
> ILEANA DÂRJA
> Tezaurul limbii grecesti al lui Henri Estienne în colectia Bibliotecii
Batthyaneum / 189 â€" Henri Estienne's Greek Thesaurus in the Batthyaneum
Library / 218
>
> ANA DUMITRAN, ELENA CUCUI
> Zugravul Porfirie Sarlea din Feisa. Profilul iconarului / 219 â€"Porfirie
Sarlea from Feisa. An Icon Painter's Profile / 240
>
> ANA DUMITRAN
> Biserica de lemn din Hapria / 244 â€" The Wooden Church from Hapria / 257
>
> FLORIAN-RARES TILEAGA
> Cultura? Pe mâini bune ! / 258 â€" Culture? In Good Hands ! / 275
>
> Note de lectura / 277
>
> Indice de nume si locuri / 283
>

I announce to you  the 7th and the 8th numbers of NEMVS Magazine, a periodic
edited by the Sarmizegetusa Cultural Association . You can find the digital
version at the following address:

  www.enciclopedia-dacica.ro/nemvs/nemvs3.htm

The summary contains the following articles:


DENIS MEMET
Summum bonum / 5 â€" Summum bonum / 7

PHILLIP DAVIS
Two Hoards Revisited Denarii / 10 â€" Rediscutarea problemei imitarii denarilor
romani republicani, pe baza a doua tezaure / 19

CATALIN BORANGIC
Sica. Tipologie si functionalitate / 22 â€" Sica. Tipollogy and Functionability
/ 35

CRISTINEL PLANTOS, GLIGOR MIRCEA
Descoperiri apartinând celei de a doua epoci a fierului în bazinul Ampoiului
(judetul Alba) / 74 â€" Second Iron Era Archaeological Discoveries in the Ampoi
Valley / 95

VOLKER WOLLMANN
"Diaspora" monumentelor arheologico-epigrafice din centre urbane si militare ale
Daciei Superior / 100 â€" The "Diaspora" of the Archaeological-Epigraphic
Monuments from the Urban and Military Centers of Dacia Superior / 130

VLADIMIR AGRIGOROAEI
Asediul Salonicului (1185): perspectiva cronicilor italiene / 132 â€" The Siege
of Thessaloniki (1185) in the Italian Chronicles of the Same Period / 174

CRISTIAN IOAN POPA
Un monument medieval disparut: biserica sasilor din Vinerea (judetul Alba) / 176
â€" A Lost Mediaeval Monument: the Saxon Church from Vinerea (Alba county) / 186

ILEANA DÂRJA
Tezaurul limbii grecesti al lui Henri Estienne în colectia Bibliotecii
Batthyaneum / 189 â€" Henri Estienne's Greek Thesaurus in the Batthyaneum
Library / 218

ANA DUMITRAN, ELENA CUCUI
Zugravul Porfirie Sarlea din Feisa. Profilul iconarului / 219 â€"Porfirie Sarlea
from Feisa. An Icon Painter's Profile / 240

ANA DUMITRAN
Biserica de lemn din Hapria / 244 â€" The Wooden Church from Hapria / 257

FLORIAN-RARES TILEAGA
Cultura? Pe mâini bune ! / 258 â€" Culture? In Good Hands ! / 275

Note de lectura / 277

Indice de nume si locuri / 283

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Dada Mamusa" <dada_mamusa@...> wrote:
>
>
> Etymology rhomphaia term which, according to ancient authors, means a great
sword of thracian is put in link with Latin rumpere * "break", "to break: which
in translation approximately could designate as rhomphaia as one who breaks
[break]
>
> dada
>
> ps. sorry for my english
>
> www.enciclopedia-dacica.ro
************

There are just a few roots concerning the IE weapons, like:

1. *gWeru 'spear' or 'spit' in Celtic (OIr biur0 and Italic (Lat veru), but
'staff' in Iranian (Av grava-);

2.*k'uhxlos 'spear, spit': Arm slak' 'pike, spear, dagger, arrow'; MPers swl'ck
'grill', Skt šu:la - 'pike, spit, javelin';

3. *k'el(hx)- 'spear, point': ON hali 'point of shaft, tail', OPrus kelian
'spear', Alb thel 'big nail, spike'; Grk ke:la 'arrowshafts', Skt šalya- 'spear,
arrowhead';

4. g'hais-os-s 'throwing spear': Gr khaisos 'herdsman's staff', OIr gae 'spear',
OE ga:r 'spear', NE garlic, Skt hes.as- 'missle';

5. *we:ben 'cutting weapon, knife': NE weapon, Toch AB yepe 'weapon, knife;

6. *H2/H3n.sis 'large (offensive) knife': Lat e:nsis, Av ahu:-, Skt asi-
'sword', Palaic hasira- 'dagger'.

7. *k'os-trom/dhrom: Lat castro: 'I prune', Alb thadër 'adze', Skt šastra-
'knife, dagger', probably independent creation of *k'es- 'to cut'.

8. spelo/eHa 'shield': MPers ispar 'shield', Skt phalakam 'shield, board', ON
fjol 'board' and possibly Luvian palahsa- 'blanket, coat' etc.

An Old Norse-Thracian isogloss attests a *skolmeHa - 'sword': ON skolm, Thrac
ska:lme:.

I doubt could the Thracian rhompaia be connected by Alb rrum 'stalk, ramrod'
with further developed meaning rrumcall 'to cut'.

Konushevci

Etymology rhomphaia term which, according to ancient authors, means a great
sword of thracian is put in link with Latin rumpere * "break", "to break: which
in translation approximately could designate as rhomphaia as one who breaks
[break]

dada

ps. sorry for my english

www.enciclopedia-dacica.ro

alexandru_mg3 schrieb:
>
>
>
> Yes, we discuss more on the etymology of the words here...
> Could you indicate me where the Thracian rhomphaia is attested on the
> ancient texts, arheological traces etc...
>
> Thanks,
> Marius



so far I am informed, Thomacheck does not comment too much about this
word but it remember it when he is writting about Rumbodona in his "Die
Alten Thraker". The word should be meantioned in Stabulo Diomedis ID,
should be somewhere around river Xanthi. He means Rumbodona should  be
compared with "romphaia"? A simmilar fonetic construction is to be found
in the name of the city Romphos, westside of Region ,(Theopphyl. Sim,
pag. 237). The scientist compare the word with
the Lithuanian "rumba", "Saum, Einfassung"...
Deçev does not speak about it in his "Charakteristik der trakischen
Sprachresten"..
Duridanov does not consider it to be a Thracian word either, at least
in the first part of his "Thrakisch-Dakische Studien" the word is not
in the index of the supposed thracian-dacian words..
I am not sure about II Russu since the index of his "Limba
Traco-Dacilor" is made out of Romanian words but.... actually who said
this "romphaia" should be a Thracian word?


Alex

Yes, we discuss more on the etymology of the words here...
Could you indicate me where the Thracian rhomphaia is attested on the ancient
texts, arheological traces etc...

Thanks,
    Marius


--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Dada Mamusa" <dada_mamusa@...> wrote:
>
> Good day,
>
> I am passionate about ancient weapons, especially the Thracian and Dacian ones
and I joined this group hoping that we could have an useful exchange of
information about what is in our interest. I am currently writing a paper about
the Thracian offensive weapons (daggers, swords etc.), and in this paper I plan
to write in detail about the Thracian rhomphaia (spear â€" scythe).
Unfortunately, there have been few writings about this weapon in Romania, my
country, and the same in the Anglo-Saxon literature. You if you have any kind of
writings, references, images, sources or anything about this subject, please let
me know, I would be forever grateful.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Dada Mamusa
>
> www.enciclopedia-dacica.ro
>

Dada Mamusa schrieb:
>
>
> Good day,
>
> I am passionate about ancient weapons, especially the Thracian and
> Dacian ones and I joined this group hoping that we could have an useful
> exchange of information about what is in our interest. I am currently
> writing a paper about the Thracian offensive weapons (daggers, swords
> etc.), and in this paper I plan to write in detail about the Thracian
> rhomphaia (spear �" scythe). Unfortunately, there have been few writings
> about this weapon in Romania, my country, and the same in the
> Anglo-Saxon literature. You if you have any kind of writings,
> references, images, sources or anything about this subject, please let
> me know, I would be forever grateful.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Dada Mamusa
>
> www.enciclopedia-dacica.ro



Hi Dada Mamusa,

this group has for long time no activity anymore and when here was one,
we discussed more linguistic aspects. Yet, you are wellcome and I am
sure you will find here some old acquantainces.


best regards


Alexandru Moeller

Good day,

I am passionate about ancient weapons, especially the Thracian and Dacian ones
and I joined this group hoping that we could have an useful exchange of
information about what is in our interest. I am currently writing a paper about
the Thracian offensive weapons (daggers, swords etc.), and in this paper I plan
to write in detail about the Thracian rhomphaia (spear â€" scythe).
Unfortunately, there have been few writings about this weapon in Romania, my
country, and the same in the Anglo-Saxon literature. You if you have any kind of
writings, references, images, sources or anything about this subject, please let
me know, I would be forever grateful.

Thank you!

Dada Mamusa

www.enciclopedia-dacica.ro

alexandru_mg3 schrieb:
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:cybalist%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Alexandru Moeller <alxmoeller@...>
> wrote:
>  >
>  > alexandru_mg3 schrieb:
>  >
>  > > e>ea and o>oa was trigered by a,&,e
>  > >
>  > > Why you exclude e? (> soare)
>  > >
>  > > Marius
>  >
>  >
>  > first please note I will post a longer article on Balkanika about
> the
>  > diphtongation of "e" and "o" in Romania. For now, please just
> remember
>  > that the diphtongation btw the yotacisation stoped much eralier
> when the
>  > next syllable was "e". As you said before, it seems the time it
> stoped
>  > has been as the Slavs came. In the words where the next unstressed
> vowel
>  > is/was "ã", it seems the the rule is stil working today, I have to
>  > search a bit more for some examples.
>  > I have my toughts that "e" was perceived once as "ã" or it was a
> certain
>  > "e" who was perceived as "ã", I don't know exactly, I am just about
> to
>  > compile some data here and that is plenty of material to verify,
>  > including Albanian for seeing if there is something interesting.
>  >
>  >
>  > Alex
>
> Alex, this is the full rule regarding Romanian ea
> I quote fully Rosetti
> ----------------------
> "ea'. e accentuat urmat in silaba imediat urmatoare de a(ã) sau e
> a fost diftongat la ea, in aceleasi conditii ca si ye (v. mai sus;
> pentru o, v. mai jos p. 42 s,.u.), in elementele din vechiul fond,
> iar in elementele slave patrunse in limba la o epoca veche, numai
> cand e era urmat de a(ã)"
>
> To resume in English:
> ---------------------
> The rule was active till the oldest Slavic layer but in addition
> for that Old Slavic layer only an a(ã) context could still trigger it.
> But for 'the ancient set of words' e/accented > ea when if is
> followed in the next syllable by a(ã) sau e.
>
> BUT EVEN MORE:
> For Hungarian Loans in Romanian (later loans comparing with
> Slavics ones): /ea/ or /ye/ are not applicable AT ALL ==> see Rosetti
> either in my previous post.
>
> In addition Magh. /ü/ in üveg is rendered by /i/ by Romanian see il&u
>
> Marius
>
> P>S> Of course, I would read what you said if you indicate me that
> message no again.



Marius, I did not write yet the article. I am just compiling data even
because the rules which are given by the clasics seems to be a bit
polished, speaks to bring them up to date.

The rule of dphtingationas are simple but there are some troubles which
I will post when I am ready

e > ea when followed by e or ã
e > ie when followed by e and it went to ia when followed by ã

the question which arrises here is why once e > ie and once e > ea. This
is a story which I will like to clarify

o > oa when followed by e or by ã but it seems there are some troubles
too .. I will revert but I want to move the discussion about this
diphtongation away from cybalist because at least for my perception,
there are tooo much messages about this story. Actually I will prefer
that one write once per day after one reads all the messages :-))

Alex

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Alvin Ekmekciu" <Ekmekciu@...> wrote:
>
> --- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
> <a_konushevci@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "alex" <alxmoeller@t...> wrote:
>
> > > juli     - cuptor          < cuptor ( < coctorius)
> >
> > [AK]
> > Alb. <korrik> 'the month of harvest' (cf. Croatian Srpanj)
> >
>
> I thought Lat. curriculum > Alb. korr(ik), in the sense of the
> gathering race.
>
> Alvin
************
-ik is common suffix as well in Albanian, in Latin, Illyrian, Romanian
etc.
There are to be noticed Illyrian place names, like Lopsica (see
Liburnian place names), Cliticus, Juricus, Lutossika, Oplica, Kaklika.
  It is usually diminutive suffix, probably from -ko, as we may see
also from Latin curriculum, clavicula (cf. clavis), where -i- seems to
be an anaptytic sound.
It was attached to adjectives and verbs: bal-ik (cf. balë), furrik
(cf. furrë), lar-ik (cf. larë), rras-ikë, beside rras-ukë (cf. rrasë),
so korr-ik is a regular derivative of korr 'to harvest, reap'.
See also Romanian cimpic (cf. cimp), prunic (cf. pruna).

Konushevci

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
<a_konushevci@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "alex" <alxmoeller@t...> wrote:

> > juli     - cuptor          < cuptor ( < coctorius)
>
> [AK]
> Alb. <korrik> 'the month of harvest' (cf. Croatian Srpanj)
>

I thought Lat. curriculum > Alb. korr(ik), in the sense of the
gathering race.

Alvin

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Alvin Ekmekciu" <Ekmekciu@...> wrote:
>
> According to Pokorny PIE *snew- gave Albanian <nus> `Bindfaden,
> Schnur' as the Greek <neuro-> and Latin <nervus>.
>
> Such a word can not be found in any Albanian dictionary and neither
> had Abdullah mentioned it in his Albanian Inherited Dictionary.
> Is this word lost or should we be looking for another form of it ?
>
> In apparence the word is similar to Albanian <nuse> 'bride'. But is
> there any connection between them ?
>
> Alvin
************
Alb nus-kë 'triangular shaped talisman' probably from *snu-t-yo-ko, in
close relation to Alb nyç, nyell, nyjë, that I think I have treated in
my dictionary as inherited words of Albanian lexicon. By all means
primary meaning was 'twine, band, lace, string, pack-thread'. With
this meaning this word was found in S. Marzano in Apulia by Meyer and
also could be found in "Fjalori i Bashkimit".

Konushevci

Konushevci

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Alvin Ekmekciu" <Ekmekciu@...> wrote:
>
> Hello !
>
> Is there any known etymology for Albanian Tok� 'earth'.
>
> Regards
> Alvin E.
************
There are many attempts to explain Alb tokë 'earth' with variant trokë
'surface, earth'. Most plausible is Çabej's etymology, that ties Alb
tokë and trokë, together with truall belong to the same derivatives as
Alb verb ter 'to dry'. He derived it from *tre:ka:. The lost of -r- is
characteristic also for kezë < krezë etc.
PIE root was *ters- 'to dry' with clear cognate in Latin terra:
through Italic *terso-, *tersa, IE *te:rs-. In PIE syllable structure
CVRC, consonant plus vocal plus resonant plus consonant, changed
regularly to CRVC. Alb truall 'land, terrain, country' seems to be
from *tre:s-lo with regular -sl- > -ll- phonetic mutation.

Konushevci

Hello !

Is there any known etymology for Albanian Tokë 'earth'.

Regards
Alvin E.

According to Pokorny PIE *snew- gave Albanian <nus> `Bindfaden,
Schnur' as the Greek <neuro-> and Latin <nervus>.

Such a word can not be found in any Albanian dictionary and neither
had Abdullah mentioned it in his Albanian Inherited Dictionary.
Is this word lost or should we be looking for another form of it ?

In apparence the word is similar to Albanian <nuse> 'bride'. But is
there any connection between them ?

Alvin

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"
<alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:
>
>
> I wonder what could be the PIE origin of the Romanian verbal
prefix a-
>
> a-dormi
> a-muTi
> a-Tipi
>
> etc...
>
>
> Even its meaning is hard to identify :
>
>   a) I don't think that is an intensive prefix
>   b) I don't think that is related to <<Latin in>> because the PIE
*en-
> gave *en > In in Romanian & Albanian see In-Tepeni, In-Lemni etc...
>
> Any feedback?
>
> Marius
************
I think, if it is common with Albanian prefix a-, it should be from
PIE *ad-'to, near, at', attested in Albanian words a-bolla 'so that,
in order that', a-varí 'together, all together', a-var 'seed corn
hung up from the rafters to dry', a-vis 'to approach, get close', a-
rrotulla 'around, about'. About their etymology, see my oppinion in
Wiktionary: Fjalori i trashëguar i shqipes.

Konushevci

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Alvin Ekmekciu" <Ekmekciu@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Alb. vagull 'dim; uncertain' < lat. vagus 'errant, indeterminate,
> 'unstable'
>
> Is this correct ?
>
> Alvin
************
Albanian ag 'pre-dawn light, daybreak, dawn' seems to has its
diminutive agull 'twilight, half-darkness', as well as its prefixal
derivative v-agull 'faint/dim light' etc.

Konushevci

Alb. vagull 'dim; uncertain' < lat. vagus 'errant, indeterminate,
'unstable'

Is this correct ?

Alvin

I wonder what could be the PIE origin of the Romanian verbal prefix a-

a-dormi
a-muTi
a-Tipi

etc...


Even its meaning is hard to identify :

   a) I don't think that is an intensive prefix
   b) I don't think that is related to <<Latin in>> because the PIE *en-
gave *en > In in Romanian & Albanian see In-Tepeni, In-Lemni etc...

Any feedback?

Marius

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"
<alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:
>
> --- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
> <akonushevci@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"
> > <alexandru_mg3@> wrote:
> > >
> > > In Romanian  we have 'sfrijit' 'weak, without power'
> > > and the related verb is 'a sfriji' 'to loose the power , to
> become
> > > weak'
> > >
> > > Alb. sfilis   <-> Rom     sfriji  ???
> > > would be
> > > PAlb spilic^a <-> Dacian? spilig^a (> *filig^a > *s-firig^a >
> > > *sfrig^a > *sfriji)
> > >
> > > if so the (new) s- was restore by analogy 'recently' (after
s>sh
> > in
> > > Albanian)
> >
> > Extended meaning 'exhausted, worn-out' is present also in
adjective
> > i sfilitun/i sfilitur.
> > Alb sfilis vs Rom sfriji: seems to be as well cognates, but with
> > doubtful phonetism. If l > r / V_V, then primary form should be
> > *sfili: with weakening and lost of first /i/ due to the accent
in
> > last syllable with compensatory lengthening of dropped /s/.
> >
> > Primary meaning, to my view, was 'to splice, split' (see OE
splint,
> > Norw splindra 'splinter'; MDutch splitten 'to split' (Pokorny (s)
> > plei- 1000.)
> > I think that this root denotes the taming and sacrificing of
wild
> > animals in PIE society.
> >
> > >
> > > The Romanian verb is marked UNKNOWN in DEX.
> > >
> > > Marius
> >
>
>
> Meanwhile I found that Romanian sfriji is more related to Albanian
> filiz Abdullah, what is the proposed etimology of Albanian filiz?
>
> Thanks,
> Marius
************
As far as I know, Alb filiz 'offspring' is a Turkish loan.

Konushevci

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
<akonushevci@...> wrote:
>
> --- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"
> <alexandru_mg3@> wrote:
> >
> > In Romanian  we have 'sfrijit' 'weak, without power'
> > and the related verb is 'a sfriji' 'to loose the power , to
become
> > weak'
> >
> > Alb. sfilis   <-> Rom     sfriji  ???
> > would be
> > PAlb spilic^a <-> Dacian? spilig^a (> *filig^a > *s-firig^a >
> > *sfrig^a > *sfriji)
> >
> > if so the (new) s- was restore by analogy 'recently' (after s>sh
> in
> > Albanian)
>
> Extended meaning 'exhausted, worn-out' is present also in adjective
> i sfilitun/i sfilitur.
> Alb sfilis vs Rom sfriji: seems to be as well cognates, but with
> doubtful phonetism. If l > r / V_V, then primary form should be
> *sfili: with weakening and lost of first /i/ due to the accent in
> last syllable with compensatory lengthening of dropped /s/.
>
> Primary meaning, to my view, was 'to splice, split' (see OE splint,
> Norw splindra 'splinter'; MDutch splitten 'to split' (Pokorny (s)
> plei- 1000.)
> I think that this root denotes the taming and sacrificing of wild
> animals in PIE society.
>
> >
> > The Romanian verb is marked UNKNOWN in DEX.
> >
> > Marius
>


Meanwhile I found that Romanian sfriji is more related to Albanian
filiz Abdullah, what is the proposed etimology of Albanian filiz?

Thanks,
Marius

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"
<alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:
>
> In Romanian  we have 'sfrijit' 'weak, without power'
> and the related verb is 'a sfriji' 'to loose the power , to become
> weak'
>
> Alb. sfilis   <-> Rom     sfriji  ???
> would be
> PAlb spilic^a <-> Dacian? spilig^a (> *filig^a > *s-firig^a >
> *sfrig^a > *sfriji)
>
> if so the (new) s- was restore by analogy 'recently' (after s>sh
in
> Albanian)

Extended meaning 'exhausted, worn-out' is present also in adjective
i sfilitun/i sfilitur.
Alb sfilis vs Rom sfriji: seems to be as well cognates, but with
doubtful phonetism. If l > r / V_V, then primary form should be
*sfili: with weakening and lost of first /i/ due to the accent in
last syllable with compensatory lengthening of dropped /s/.

Primary meaning, to my view, was 'to splice, split' (see OE splint,
Norw splindra 'splinter'; MDutch splitten 'to split' (Pokorny (s)
plei- 1000.)
I think that this root denotes the taming and sacrificing of wild
animals in PIE society.

>
> The Romanian verb is marked UNKNOWN in DEX.
>
> Marius

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
<akonushevci@...> wrote:
>
> --- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Alvin Ekmekciu" <Ekmekciu@>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > It. sfila 'slip' > Alb. sfilit 'cause suffering, torture, harass'
> >
> > Is this right ?
> >
> > Alvin
> ************
> Alb verb sfilis 'to make suffer, inflict pain: torment, torture'
> seems to be prefixal derivative of bound morpheme -filis (s- as
> intensive prefix, like in s-kuq, z-bardh etc.) from *speil-i-t-yo of
> PIE root *splei- 'to splice, split', where is as well the origin of
> Alb fli 'sacrifice', synonymic with theror 'sacrificial animal,
> person sacrificed' etc. It has entered South-Slavic languages as
> cvelati, cvilim, cviliti, (kajkavski) kviliti, especially about the
> swine that is sacrificed (Skok, ERHSJ, p. 283), so it has nothing to
> do with onomatopoeic syllable cvi-. I am aware too that you will
> ignore this explanation, as you have ignored more others, but, it
> dosn't matter. You are welcome as you are.
>
> Konushevci

I am not ignoring anything. Though I'm not taking part in discussions,
I am following them.

Alvin

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
<akonushevci@...> wrote:
>
> --- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Alvin Ekmekciu" <Ekmekciu@>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > It. sfila 'slip' > Alb. sfilit 'cause suffering, torture, harass'
> >
> > Is this right ?
> >
> > Alvin
> ************
> Alb verb sfilis 'to make suffer, inflict pain: torment, torture'
> seems to be prefixal derivative of bound morpheme -filis (s- as
> intensive prefix, like in s-kuq, z-bardh etc.) from *speil-i-t-yo
of
> PIE root *splei- 'to splice, split', where is as well the origin of
> Alb fli 'sacrifice', synonymic with theror 'sacrificial animal,
> person sacrificed' etc. It has entered South-Slavic languages as
> cvelati, cvilim, cviliti, (kajkavski) kviliti, especially about the
> swine that is sacrificed (Skok, ERHSJ, p. 283), so it has nothing
to
> do with onomatopoeic syllable cvi-. I am aware too that you will
> ignore this explanation, as you have ignored more others, but, it
> dosn't matter. You are welcome as you are.
>
> Konushevci
>


In Romanian  we have 'sfrijit' 'weak, without power'
and the related verb is 'a sfriji' 'to loose the power , to become
weak'

Alb. sfilis   <-> Rom     sfriji  ???
would be
PAlb spilic^a <-> Dacian? spilig^a (> *filig^a > *s-firig^a >
*sfrig^a > *sfriji)

if so the (new) s- was restore by analogy 'recently' (after s>sh in
Albanian)

The Romanian verb is marked UNKNOWN in DEX.

Marius


P.S. The meaning is closed to Latin fragilus and the phonetism 'is
almost identical' to Latin frigidus...

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Alvin Ekmekciu" <Ekmekciu@...>
wrote:
>
>
> It. sfila 'slip' > Alb. sfilit 'cause suffering, torture, harass'
>
> Is this right ?
>
> Alvin
************
Alb verb sfilis 'to make suffer, inflict pain: torment, torture'
seems to be prefixal derivative of bound morpheme -filis (s- as
intensive prefix, like in s-kuq, z-bardh etc.) from *speil-i-t-yo of
PIE root *splei- 'to splice, split', where is as well the origin of
Alb fli 'sacrifice', synonymic with theror 'sacrificial animal,
person sacrificed' etc. It has entered South-Slavic languages as
cvelati, cvilim, cviliti, (kajkavski) kviliti, especially about the
swine that is sacrificed (Skok, ERHSJ, p. 283), so it has nothing to
do with onomatopoeic syllable cvi-. I am aware too that you will
ignore this explanation, as you have ignored more others, but, it
dosn't matter. You are welcome as you are.

Konushevci

It. sfila 'slip' > Alb. sfilit 'cause suffering, torture, harass'

Is this right ?

Alvin

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, alex <alxmoeller@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> alexandru_mg3 schrieb:
> >  > why all this? Why corelations with vrana, varrë. volnus?
> >  > Phoenticaly
> >  > the word is very appropiate to Romanian "vai", "vaiet",
vãita", and
> >  > appropiate to Latin "vae" . Isnt it?
> >  >
> >  > Alex
> >  >
> >
> > I fully agree with Alex here, why not from Latin "vae"?
> >
> >
> > Marius
>
>
>
>
> so far I recall, even Rosetti admits that Rum. "vai" cannot derive
> from Latin "vae". Beside of this, the conjugation is "vãita" and
the
> noun is a very complicatet construction: vaietãturã, apparently
from
> "vãietat", participium of "vãieta". Of course there is "vaiet" as
> well as noun but this is not explanable via Latin so far I know.
>
> Please also note, in germanic family this is known too and it has
> plenty of derivates. In fact "vaieta" seems to be "to cry" as in
> German "weinen" (to cry) . The word is in Avestan as well "vayoi"
> and in Lithuanian "var", English "woe" and so on, and so on.. I
mean
> is plenty of Indoeuropean material here.
>
> P.S.
> ( I wonder if there is a absconse connection with "ierta" where
> "vai-ierta > vaierta > vãieta" since I dont belive in Latin
> "liberare" > ierta.
>
> Alex
>

     The point here is that Romanian is a Latin Language...so the
first source to be considered is Latin....this logic is a solid
one....there are around 1400 Latin 'title-words' versus I would say
300-350 Substratual ones...

   the pie root was 'steh2' and the verb in romanian is 'a sta'
considered from latin 'sta:re', but with good arguments too...how you
will show that this word is from the Substratum and not from latin
with no attestation of that Substratum word?

    At Homer is attestated "no:i" 'we two' with i as in Romanian "noi"
with no clear explanation of Homeric -i-, but romanian 'noi' is
considered from latin no:s...but i would say that this is normal
too...as long as other 1400 words are from Latin.

    I mean the method is more important than the possible at least
equally possible alternatives....

    We need to stay inside the method as much as possible if we want
to have a solid argumentation...hard to accept or not this is the
only way to find out what was really the situation....

    In all these years I found some amazing things regarding the
Romanian Substratum but I didnt't see any reason to put in question
the Latin character of Romanian: using a dogma/a model is not bad at
all.  Only using that model you will detect its limits and its
availability

     marius

alexandru_mg3 schrieb:
>  > why all this? Why corelations with vrana, varrë. volnus?
>  > Phoenticaly
>  > the word is very appropiate to Romanian "vai", "vaiet", vãita", and
>  > appropiate to Latin "vae" . Isnt it?
>  >
>  > Alex
>  >
>
> I fully agree with Alex here, why not from Latin "vae"?
>
>
> Marius




so far I recall, even Rosetti admits that Rum. "vai" cannot derive
from Latin "vae". Beside of this, the conjugation is "vãita" and the
noun is a very complicatet construction: vaietãturã, apparently from
"vãietat", participium of "vãieta". Of course there is "vaiet" as
well as noun but this is not explanable via Latin so far I know.

Please also note, in germanic family this is known too and it has
plenty of derivates. In fact "vaieta" seems to be "to cry" as in
German "weinen" (to cry) . The word is in Avestan as well "vayoi"
and in Lithuanian "var", English "woe" and so on, and so on.. I mean
is plenty of Indoeuropean material here.

P.S.
( I wonder if there is a absconse connection with "ierta" where
"vai-ierta > vaierta > vãieta" since I dont belive in Latin
"liberare" > ierta.

Alex

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
<akonushevci@...> wrote:
>
> --- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"
> <alexandru_mg3@> wrote:
> >  Abdullah, if 'everyone could judge' that the word WAS stressed
in
> > second syllable. ...I well hope that that persons can also
explain
> > why /je/ in vjehërr: even you, I hope, isn't it?
> >
> >  Marius
> >
> > P.S. :  On my side, I know that ONLY e/accented > je
> ************
> Why don't you take into consideration the initial accent and its
> impact in PAlb/Illyrian, known as well as stress mechanical
> regulation: Gr Durrákhion, but Ill Dúrrakhion > Alb Durrës, but
> Italian Durázzo, Sl Drac^ etc., an intermediary stage of accent in
> penultima.
> In this case we are talking about originally accent of the
> root/stem, not of its later treatment. So, in words with initial
> stressed vowel after *sw- we have Alb /d/, otherwise /v/.
>
> Konushevci
>

Abdullah, when e > je happened the accent was on the first syllable
in vjehërr...OK? I hope that you will agree at least with this
evidence

Now remains to quess yourself how old this e > je is if you have:
       1. Dacian Diegis,
       2. Albanian q based on an older *ke/accented etc...,
       3. Romanian fierbe < Latin fervere...etc...

So you need to demonstrate that <<e/accented > je>> (that 'belong to
Dacian times') is "a later treatement" in relation with <<s-/w,non-
accented-syll. > zero >>

I don't want to say that it couldn't be true, I want to say that you
need to demonstrate this.

Because without demonstration, any supposition means nothing....

Next you need to demonstrate the reason of such a shift of accent in
pre-historic times....

Marius

P.S. As an example: Piotr proposed a metathesis swek^uro > wesk^uro
to avoid to go 'on such a difficult path' =>
To be honest with you : 'I'm more with you that with him here' but I
cannot demonstrate either the above points

The only (indirect) argument that I could find is that s/w- > zero
happened also in Frigian (so teh transformation could preceed the
split of 'Balkanic-IE-Peoples') but this is only an indirect argument
and we really need a direct one here...

--- In balkanika@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"
<alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:
>  Abdullah, if 'everyone could judge' that the word WAS stressed in
> second syllable. ...I well hope that that persons can also explain
> why /je/ in vjehërr: even you, I hope, isn't it?
>
>  Marius
>
> P.S. :  On my side, I know that ONLY e/accented > je
************
Why don't you take into consideration the initial accent and its
impact in PAlb/Illyrian, known as well as stress mechanical
regulation: Gr Durrákhion, but Ill Dúrrakhion > Alb Durrës, but
Italian Durázzo, Sl Drac^ etc., an intermediary stage of accent in
penultima.
In this case we are talking about originally accent of the
root/stem, not of its later treatment. So, in words with initial
stressed vowel after *sw- we have Alb /d/, otherwise /v/.

Konushevci