Dear Richard and others,

I believe , from a trip to a large Chinese factory , that it is all down to the
method of preservative treatment of the raw bamboo rather than the humidity in
the house*.

Incidentally, not so many years ago the industry was almost lost because the
quality of Chinese floor products was so variable. Distributors/fitters in the
US were having to replace whole floors. It is much better now. But it goes to
show that those seeking too emulate must pick up the lessons that the Chinese
learned.

Interestingly, some Chinese factories have experimented successfully with
tropical clumping bamboo which they sourced from the Vietnam border. The main
reason they have not pushed it is that it looked so different in colour and
pattern from usual moso product.

My personal suggestion would be to focus first on the vertical form when
making tiles with tropical bamboo.

Graham Cox

* Tip at gdcox@...



----- Original Message -----
From: Raphael Moras de Vasconcellos
To: bamboo-plantations@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:51 PM
Subject: RE: [bamboo-plantations] Re: Bamboo facts on floors and furniture!


Dear Richard,

I agree with the need for scientifical research and a more spread data on
the subject.

While in China attending the 2001 CBRC TCDC course, we visited the Nanjing
Forestry University, and we saw some departments exclusively for bamboo
boards. They had like 20 samples, glue laminated bamboo in vertical natural
horizontal carbonized, alomerated bamboo, GLB with soft wood, and so on.

I am sure the chinese flooring industry have all the data for Moso based
flooring. Gib is right, obviously, when pointing that species matters when
determining the data final figures.

As an addition, I would like to tell an experience: I am starting a
partnership with a bamboo flooring and boards importer in Brazil, and got
some samples. As my workshop is very VERY moist (in the middle of Rio de
Janeiro´s atlantic forest - you can see pictures at
http://www.orkut.com.br/Main#Album.aspx?uid=7072059609971141362&aid=12275917
78). Some samples are being infested with mould, particularly at the cuts
where there is no varnish. So even with a low initial moisture content,
chinese bamboo flooring cannot stand high levels of moisture on inside
rooms.

I must say that in neighbouring houses with proper architecture (light, air,
moisture...) chinese bamboo flooring could be fine.

best wishes,

Raphael Moras de Vasconcellos
raphael@... / www.bambubrasileiro.com
raphael@... / www.agenciabambu.com.br

-----Original Message-----
From: bamboo-plantations@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:bamboo-plantations@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Joynes
Sent: quinta-feira, 20 de novembro de 2008 06:05
To: bamboo-plantations@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [bamboo-plantations] Re: Bamboo facts on floors and furniture!

Raphael,

You make a very valid point (as usual!). However, where bamboo seeks to
compete head to head with a specific wood product (particle board or plywood
for example) independent, academic studies are essential and I believe the
absence of these studies will limit bamboo's growth (pun intended). A
customer needs to know how a bamboo product compares with it's wood
equivalent before purchasing, especially if the bamboo product is more
expensive. He simply will not buy unless he knows the M of E or the results
of screw pull tests. Unless bamboo does the minimum job intended - and is
proven to do so - all the "sound advantages of bamboo" will not matter.

Richard

At 07:46 AM 11/17/2008, you wrote:

>Dear Jehan,
>
>the problem is that there is no possible way of having a precise
>scientific evaluation system of the social-economic-cultural and
>environmental impact of every product from every nation. Comparing
>bamboo to wood, is like comparing bananas to apples.
>
>Let´s just be reasonable and advocate the sound advantages of bamboo,
>not try to force misleading environmental propaganda on bamboo unreal
>advantages, and hope that our efforts and conclusions are in the path
>of truth. It is impossible to be perfect in this world, not one single
>product is trully sustainable if replicated by 6 billion people.
>
>In my opinion, bamboo people should be discrete using environmental
>marketing over its products, as means of green factor comparition are
>badly developed. Priority seems to be changing people´s old habits
>before trying to "greenicize" all economy at once.
>
>best wishes,
>
>Raphael Moras de Vasconcellos
><mailto:raphael%40bambubrasileiro.com>raphael@...
>/ www.bambubrasileiro.com
><mailto:raphael%40agenciabambu.com.br>raphael@...
>/ www.agenciabambu.com.br
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
><mailto:bamboo-plantations%40yahoogroups.com>bamboo-plantations@yahoogr
>oups.com [mailto:bamboo-plantations@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jehan
>de Maille
>Sent: sexta-feira, 7 de novembro de 2008 23:11
>To:
><mailto:bamboo-plantations%40yahoogroups.com>bamboo-plantations@yahoogr
>oups.com
>Subject: Re: [bamboo-plantations] Re: Bamboo facts on floors and furniture!
>
>[Note from a Moderator ... with no intention of discouraging comment on
>the vital topic of sustainability, members are reminded that all posts
>to BP must be related to bamboo ... Geoff Kyle.]
>
>maybe a simple solution lies into classifying green products on their
>degree of "green commitment"
>
>5 stars would be your most efficiently sustainable product and so on....
>
>This will come up one day, as we see now some products in supermarket
>stands with their "carbon weight" from production process to the stand
>shown on the label........
>
>Jehan de Maille
>
>Costalegre, Jalisco, Mexico
>
>Cel: +52 (1/045/044) 315 1002113
>Skype: Jahnot
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Xavier Dufrénot
>To:
><mailto:bamboo-plantations%40yahoogroups.com>bamboo-plantations@yahoogr
>oups.com
>Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:21 PM
>Subject: Re: [bamboo-plantations] Re: Bamboo facts on floors and
>furniture!
>
>Dear Raphael,
>
>Your question is very interesting on a ethical and political point of
>view. What is the level of acceptance to define a green or not green
>product, sustainable or not sustainable? The question of sustainability
>has maked a lof of sociologists busy without clear answer up to now,
>simply because they get stuck on many questions like: can we consider
>any kind of classic way of productivity as sustainable just because
>they make green products? can we consider that a green product is
>sustainable if during its production is not (socialy and economicaly) ?
>Can we have a sustainable development without changing our way of
>production and consumption? Can we define sustainability without rule
>and clear regulation that can be followed by everyone from all over the
world? I am still working on it.
>Bamboo is the best case study for all these questions!
>
>Xavier
>
>--- On Tue, 11/4/08, Jehan de Maille
><<mailto:jehan.de.maille%40gmail.com>jehan.de.maille@...> wrote:
>From: Jehan de Maille
><<mailto:jehan.de.maille%40gmail.com>jehan.de.maille@...>
>Subject: Re: [bamboo-plantations] Re: Bamboo facts on floors and
>furniture!
>To:
><mailto:bamboo-plantations%40yahoogroups.com>bamboo-plantations@yahoogr
>oups.com
>Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 5:45 PM
>
>i think the solution is to be found in this same forum.....look how
>many projects of nurseries and/or plantations are announced per week
worldwide...
>.
>
>...if people in southern europe and northern africa start producing
>(Spain subsidies bamboo production), then bamboo flooring there could get
more S.
>
>....now of course eskimos will have to stick to ice flooring if they
>want to go "green".....
>
>of course no one is going to point a gun on someone's head forcing them
>to buy this more expensive flooring for its eco figures..... .
>
>.....but look around and judge for yourself.... ..
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>From: Raphael Moras de Vasconcellos
>
>To: bamboo-plantations@ yahoogroups. com
>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:39 AM
>
>Subject: Re: [bamboo-plantations ] Re: Bamboo facts on floors and
>furniture!
>
>Dear Kinder,
>
>I am too always skeptic about the usage of the S word regarding this IS
>OR
>
>IS NOT sustainable for bamboo products. It is not 100% right neither to
>call
>
>bamboo flooring sustainable or unsustainable. Glue, machinery, energy,
>
>transportation, etc are all factors. There are advantages and
>disadvantages.
>
>A simple question: how could North America and Europe produce local
>100%
>
>sustainable flooring??? Possible?
>
>Another one: could people just stop buying not 100% sustainable flooring?
>
>Sometimes arguments tend to be eco-exagerated. But sure, we must adress
>
>problems and find alternative solutions ASAP.
>
>best wishes,
>
>Raphael Moras de Vasconcellos
>
>raphael@bambubrasil eiro.com / www.bambubrasileiro .com
>
>raphael@agenciabamb u.com.br / www.agenciabambu. com.br
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>From: bamboo-plantations@ yahoogroups. com
>
>[mailto:bamboo-plantations@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Txbooguru@aol.
>com
>
>Sent: segunda-feira, 3 de novembro de 2008 01:30
>
>To: bamboo-plantations@ yahoogroups. com
>
>Subject: {SPAM} Re: [bamboo-plantations ] Re: Bamboo facts on floors
>and
>
>furniture!
>
>of it being a sustainable material we want to use it for everything,
>but we
>
>dont realize that some process affect it and damage some of the
>sustainable
>
>characteristics that it originaly has.
>
>Can someone please 'define' the word "sustainable" for me in regards to
>
>PRODUCTS.
>
>In MY mind, the word "Sustainable' , is regards to our ability to keep
>it
>
>growing and producting:: i.e. NOT using it to the point of extinction..
>
>In THAT context the word has NOTHING to do with HOW we USE it.. I
>
>have
>
>recently seen, PhD Thesis, written about the "sustainability" of bamboo
>
>PRODUCTS. To ME that word does NOT fit.
>
>Or is that another menaing that I am not aware of ? ? ? We can "sustain"
>
>the production of Bamboo flooring (for example), as long as there is
>bamboo
>
>to do it with. But if proper maintainence and harvesting techniques are
>
>not
>
>used, then the groves of Bamboo will NOT be sustainable. (Did that
>
>make sense ??? )
>
>Best regards to all Bambooers. Kinder in Central TExas.
>
>************ **Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out
>Today's Hot
>
>5 Travel Deals!
>
>(<http://pr.atwola.>http://pr.atwola.
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>
><p://travel.aol.>p://travel.aol. com/discount- travel?ncid=
>emlcntustrav0000 0001)
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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>
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>
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>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
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>
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