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CL's problems   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #221 of 501 |
Re: [bangalore-lisp] CL's problems

I'm glad Roshan popped in when I was too busy.

There are many threads you can find, especially in c.l.l.,
about how Lisp sucks. I tried to find some of the classic ones for you, but couldn't. (Can other members here help me? Some are really worth reading. I hope someone posts a couple of them here.) Usually they are from someone who doesn't know the language well; often they complain about things like parentheses, lack of libraries, and too many Lisps. Many of these complaints get shot down pretty fast. (The 3 I mentioned are fairly easy targets. ;-)

I think if Lisp has problems, every computer language has problems. For jobs bigger than the smallest, Lisp is great. Lisp was popular even when it was expensive to run. After commodity computers came it took Lisp years to catch up. After all, there is a lot there even at the core: an interpretter (like C's debuggers), a compiler, a garbage collector. Lisp will only become more popular. Other languages have never lasted long. Lisp adapts due to what constitutes a Lisp.

The problems Ron Garrett brings up are of concern for the Lisper, I believe, but there is a thriving, very able (small) bunch of geniuses working on processes for developing the language. Lisp 2014, if there is another standard, will be built on a process much more advanced than Lisp 1994.

Chaitanya, I hope you don't make the mistake I made when I started to learn Lisp. I kept worrying that maybe Lisp has too many problems and maybe I shouldn't devote myself to it. I wasted literally months reading the bad things people say about the language -- and the good things. I eventually decided the smart money was with Lisp and really buckled down to study the language.

Now I always keep an open mind about the down sides of Lisp so I can use Lisp without it hurting my career. For example, in the current project I am trying to get, I already have figured out that I must: (1) very quickly create a prototype of a piece of the project that will immediately impress the manager so he will wonder how I did it so fast, and (2) be ready to call it `just a prototype' if he wants to hand it over to a team of 10 Java programmers. I'm not going into a Java project, though. I refuse to be considered a fresher with 15 years of experience. Ha!

You might want to play around with Python for a few days since you already know C. Pay close attention to the main tutorial. It is so short you can get through it in a couple of hours. But then quickly move on to Lisp. Much of what you learn in Lisp will help you in Python if you get a Python project. And practically anyone can read Python.

On 4/29/06, Chaitanya Gupta <icehotcg@...> wrote:
Greetings fellow Lispers,

My first post to the group. This place has been dormant for a while,
but it'll be good to know some fellow Indian Lispers.

There's been a bit of criticism of CL over the past few weeks -
starting with Steve Yegge, and then the usenet post by Ron Garret,
etc. I am quite new to Lisp(a bit over six months), so I haven't got
much of an opinion yet. But i am interested in knowing what you people
feel about it? Anything particularly bad with CL?

I've found CL to be better than anything I've programmed in
before(which means C/C++ & BASIC)... but it would be better still to
know its faults (and nasty traps - like eval's scope).

Thanks,
Chaitanya






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--
Lisp humour:

LISP> (setf god (symbol-value god))
Warning:  Declaring GOD special.
Error:  GOD is unbound.

Mon May 1, 2006 8:13 am

tomelam
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Message #221 of 501 |
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Greetings fellow Lispers, My first post to the group. This place has been dormant for a while, but it'll be good to know some fellow Indian Lispers. There's...
Chaitanya Gupta
icehotcg
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Apr 29, 2006
1:15 pm

... I have not been reading c.l.l for some time now ... anyway in case anyone else missed it, you can have a look here: ...
Roshan Mathews
roshmathews
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Apr 30, 2006
4:03 pm

I'm glad Roshan popped in when I was too busy. There are many threads you can find, especially in c.l.l., about how Lisp sucks. I tried to find some of the...
Thomas Elam
tomelam
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May 1, 2006
8:19 am

Er, I deleted *my* post, not anyone else's. ... -- Lisp humour: LISP> (setf god (symbol-value god)) Warning: Declaring GOD special. Error: GOD is unbound....
Thomas Elam
tomelam
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May 1, 2006
8:38 am

I tried to post a link to Pascal C.'s posts in c.l.l., but I got the wrong one, so I deleted it. Just be sure to read all the posts in the thread. I think some...
Thomas Elam
tomelam
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May 1, 2006
8:40 am

... You should click on the "Show Options" next to the authors name and then send us the link to the "Individual Message". :) -- Roshan Mathews...
Roshan Mathews
roshmathews
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May 1, 2006
3:16 pm

Thanks Tom, Roshan. I've read that thread on c.l.l. But a few things just flew over my head. So I asked here. Anyway, I think you are right Tom - maybe I...
Chaitanya Gupta
icehotcg
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May 2, 2006
5:30 am

Chaitanya, No computer language is `perfect' for every job, but the essence of Lisp is just so good that it is considered a very important language for a...
Thomas Elam
tomelam
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May 2, 2006
1:39 pm

Tom, I have given Lisp a try and am loving it. Don't worry, I am not going to get scared and run-off to some other lang. Its only been six months, but I am...
Chaitanya Gupta
icehotcg
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May 2, 2006
5:56 pm

Chaitanya, A lot of people like Ruby. Supposedly it is a lot like Lisp. Paul Graham says it's more Lisp-like than Python: ...
Thomas Elam
tomelam
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May 3, 2006
6:41 am
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