I have the same idea for a robot -- except that my PC will be a Palm-sized
PC running Visual Basic for CE.  It'll be interesting to see if Chris's OCX
will work in VBCE...

-- Jon Williams
-- Dallas, TX





"Chris H." <theone@...> on 10/15/99 12:06:52 PM

Please respond to basicx@onelist.com

To:   <basicx@onelist.com>
cc:

Subject:  Re: [basicx-ListServer] Capacitor on ATN line


From: "Chris H." <theone@...>

> From: "Jack Schoof" <jschoof@...>

> In the future we will make a Visual Basic interface to the BX-24 so that
you can send and receive LIVE data from the BX-24 into Visual Basic.
>
> Jack

YES! Do you have an idea of when this will be out? My next robot is going
to
be PC based and I plan on using two or more BX-24's connected to the
onboard
PC for all I/O. I plan on programing the robot using VB and this VB
interface sounds exactly like what I need! I'm not a programmer, so the
less
of it I have to do the better! :)

-C
http://www.theonespot.com

--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

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                        go to EXPERTCITY.COM
     <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/expertcity15 ">Click Here</a>

The language for the BX24 is a lot like VB. Its about as hard to learn as
the BS2 since it is based on Basic. IF you know VB, then its just that much
easier. I also started out with the BS2 but then got a BX1, now I'm gonna go
with the BX24 as it has the best of both worlds.

I'm also still trying to find out where I can download the compiler and docs
(Posted this question earlier). If you want to get a jump start on the
language, download the BX1 docs as it uses the same language (although there
will be some differnet commands and stuff between the two).

-C
http://www.theonespot.com

----- Original Message -----
From: <cjparker@...>
To: <basicx@onelist.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 1999 10:13 PM
Subject: [basicx-ListServer] BX24


> From: cjparker@...
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am new to the basic x list. I have been playing with a BS2 for a while
and was planning on going to a BS2SX as I ran out of space for my code. Then
someone showed me the BX24. This looks great. Can anyone who knows the BS2
let me know how hard the language for the BX24 is to learn, compared to the
BS2.
>
> I haven't ordered one yet, but I was told that the documents and compiler
can be downloaded from their website. The only documents and compiler I
could find seemed to be for the BX-1. Can anyone point me to the documents
and the compiler?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Regards
> Chris Parker
>
> >

Hi everyone,

I am new to the basic x list. I have been playing with a BS2 for a while and was
planning on going to a BS2SX as I ran out of space for my code. Then someone
showed me the BX24. This looks great. Can anyone who knows the BS2 let me know
how hard the language for the BX24 is to learn, compared to the BS2.

I haven't ordered one yet, but I was told that the documents and compiler can be
downloaded from their website. The only documents and compiler I could find
seemed to be for the BX-1. Can anyone point me to the documents and the
compiler?

Thanks.

Regards
Chris Parker

Can anyone confirm that the BX-24 started shipping as planned last friday? Their
webpage doesn't say anything about it shipping, still taking *pre-orders*. The
pre-order page also says that the 15th is an estimated ship date, so its posable
that its not shipping yet (hope not though!).

Also, does anyone know if someone is working on a compiler for other OSes
besides windows? I posted a message to a robotics list I am on about the BX-24
and 2 people have emailed me asking about support on other OSes.

Thanks!

-C
http://www.theonespot.com

yeah, luckily I am familer with the BasicX stuff. I just wanted to start
reading about the differences (like ADC ports) before I got it. Also, I'm
not getting a dev kit, and I would hate to not have the software available
when I get the BX-24. I'm basically making sure I have everything ready to
go when it arrives. I don't want to get the chip and then find out Netmedia
won't have the software or docs available for download for a few days or
something.

-C
http://www.theonespot.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Taylor <ntaylor@...>
To: <basicx@onelist.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [basicx-ListServer] BX-24 docs and compiler


> From: Nick Taylor <ntaylor@...>
>
> Chris - - as I understand it, the BX-24 will use the same instruction
> set (with extensions) as the BX-1, so becoming familiar with the docs
> that are presently available with give you a head start.
>  - Nick -
>
> "Chris H." wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, but those files are for the BasicX, not the BX-24.
> >
> > I hope I can download these so I can read up a little and have the
compiler
> > installed and ready when I get the BX-24.
> >
> > -C
> > http://www.theonespot.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bruce Adams <bruceadams@...>
> > To: <basicx@onelist.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 11:11 AM
> > Subject: RE: [basicx-ListServer] BX-24 docs and compiler
> >
> > > From: "Bruce Adams" <bruceadams@...>
> > >
> > > Chris,
> > >
> > > I only saw this in one place... the Getting Started PDF file.
> > >
> > > http://www.basicx.com/transfer
> > >
> > > I was able to download the compiler from this location, as well as
other
> > > documentation.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Bruce Adams
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Chris H. [mailto:theone@...]
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 2:01 AM
> > > To: basicx@onelist.com
> > > Subject: [basicx-ListServer] BX-24 docs and compiler
> > >
> > >
> > > While I await the arival of a BX-24, can I download the docs or
software
> > now
> > > while I wait? I didn't see it on the transfer page...
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > -C
> > > http://www.theonespot.com
> > >
> > > >
> >
> >     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >                                 [Image]
> >                               Click Here
>
> >

Chris - - as I understand it, the BX-24 will use the same instruction
set (with extensions) as the BX-1, so becoming familiar with the docs
that are presently available with give you a head start.
  - Nick -

"Chris H." wrote:
>
> Thanks, but those files are for the BasicX, not the BX-24.
>
> I hope I can download these so I can read up a little and have the compiler
> installed and ready when I get the BX-24.
>
> -C
> http://www.theonespot.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bruce Adams <bruceadams@...>
> To: <basicx@onelist.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 11:11 AM
> Subject: RE: [basicx-ListServer] BX-24 docs and compiler
>
> > From: "Bruce Adams" <bruceadams@...>
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > I only saw this in one place... the Getting Started PDF file.
> >
> > http://www.basicx.com/transfer
> >
> > I was able to download the compiler from this location, as well as other
> > documentation.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bruce Adams
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris H. [mailto:theone@...]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 2:01 AM
> > To: basicx@onelist.com
> > Subject: [basicx-ListServer] BX-24 docs and compiler
> >
> >
> > While I await the arival of a BX-24, can I download the docs or software
> now
> > while I wait? I didn't see it on the transfer page...
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -C
> > http://www.theonespot.com
> >
> > >
>
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
>                                 [Image]
>                               Click Here

Thanks, but those files are for the BasicX, not the BX-24.

I hope I can download these so I can read up a little and have the compiler
installed and ready when I get the BX-24.

-C
http://www.theonespot.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Adams <bruceadams@...>
To: <basicx@onelist.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [basicx-ListServer] BX-24 docs and compiler


> From: "Bruce Adams" <bruceadams@...>
>
> Chris,
>
> I only saw this in one place... the Getting Started PDF file.
>
> http://www.basicx.com/transfer
>
> I was able to download the compiler from this location, as well as other
> documentation.
>
> Regards,
> Bruce Adams
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris H. [mailto:theone@...]
> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 2:01 AM
> To: basicx@onelist.com
> Subject: [basicx-ListServer] BX-24 docs and compiler
>
>
> While I await the arival of a BX-24, can I download the docs or software
now
> while I wait? I didn't see it on the transfer page...
>
> Thanks!
>
> -C
> http://www.theonespot.com
>
> >

Chris,

I only saw this in one place... the Getting Started PDF file.

http://www.basicx.com/transfer

I was able to download the compiler from this location, as well as other
documentation.

Regards,
Bruce Adams


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris H. [mailto:theone@...]
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 2:01 AM
To: basicx@onelist.com
Subject: [basicx-ListServer] BX-24 docs and compiler


While I await the arival of a BX-24, can I download the docs or software now
while I wait? I didn't see it on the transfer page...

Thanks!

-C
http://www.theonespot.com

While I await the arival of a BX-24, can I download the docs or software now
while I wait? I didn't see it on the transfer page...

Thanks!

-C
http://www.theonespot.com

Has anyone else tried hooking up a futaba servo motor?
When I hooked one up using the example program and
instructions it just buzzed a bit.  Looking at the
signal with a scope showed a very intermitent looking
waveform.

I have tried to modify it a bit by leaving out the
Delay call and adding a transistor.  That makes it
work better, but it still doesn't have the range it
should have.  That is, it will only respond to times
between about 1.1 and 1.45.  It's physical range is
therefore limited.  Also, if I don't give it a final
loop value in that same range it will move back
to one of the limit positions.

I've tested the servo with a test circuit and it seems
to work fine.

Today's the day!  I wonder if our BX-24 Dev. kits will make it to the
post office today?

Also want to thank NetMedia for switching from Delphi to this mail list.

  - Nick -

Thats what I plan on doing pretty much. I want the BX-24 to send sensor
readings to the PC. Some things, like PWM or counting an encoder will be
done by the BX-24. Also somethings the BX-24 will do on its own, and update
the PC when something specific happens (like when the emergency stop switch
is hit, the BX-24 will stop all motors and then tell the PC that it was
triggered).

-C
http://www.theonespot.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Schoof" <jschoof@...>
To: <basicx@onelist.com>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [basicx-ListServer] Capacitor on ATN line


> From: "Jack Schoof" <jschoof@...>
>
> This interface that I described from VB to the BX-24  is mainly for
sending
> parameters to the device and then letting it go and monitoring its
progress.
> It is not intended to be a high performance function.  Turnaround of a
> command is many milliseconds - on the order of 50.
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris H. <theone@...>
> To: basicx@onelist.com <basicx@onelist.com>
> Date: Friday, October 15, 1999 10:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [basicx-ListServer] Capacitor on ATN line
>
>
> >From: "Chris H." <theone@...>
> >
> >> From: "Jack Schoof" <jschoof@...>
> >
> >> In the future we will make a Visual Basic interface to the BX-24 so
that
> >you can send and receive LIVE data from the BX-24 into Visual Basic.
> >>
> >> Jack
> >
> >YES! Do you have an idea of when this will be out? My next robot is going
> to
> >be PC based and I plan on using two or more BX-24's connected to the
> onboard
> >PC for all I/O. I plan on programing the robot using VB and this VB
> >interface sounds exactly like what I need! I'm not a programmer, so the
> less
> >of it I have to do the better! :)
> >
> >-C
> >http://www.theonespot.com
> >
> >
>
> >

This interface that I described from VB to the BX-24  is mainly for sending
parameters to the device and then letting it go and monitoring its progress.
It is not intended to be a high performance function.  Turnaround of a
command is many milliseconds - on the order of 50.

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris H. <theone@...>
To: basicx@onelist.com <basicx@onelist.com>
Date: Friday, October 15, 1999 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [basicx-ListServer] Capacitor on ATN line


>From: "Chris H." <theone@...>
>
>> From: "Jack Schoof" <jschoof@...>
>
>> In the future we will make a Visual Basic interface to the BX-24 so that
>you can send and receive LIVE data from the BX-24 into Visual Basic.
>>
>> Jack
>
>YES! Do you have an idea of when this will be out? My next robot is going
to
>be PC based and I plan on using two or more BX-24's connected to the
onboard
>PC for all I/O. I plan on programing the robot using VB and this VB
>interface sounds exactly like what I need! I'm not a programmer, so the
less
>of it I have to do the better! :)
>
>-C
>http://www.theonespot.com
>
>

> From: "Jack Schoof" <jschoof@...>

> In the future we will make a Visual Basic interface to the BX-24 so that
you can send and receive LIVE data from the BX-24 into Visual Basic.
>
> Jack

YES! Do you have an idea of when this will be out? My next robot is going to
be PC based and I plan on using two or more BX-24's connected to the onboard
PC for all I/O. I plan on programing the robot using VB and this VB
interface sounds exactly like what I need! I'm not a programmer, so the less
of it I have to do the better! :)

-C
http://www.theonespot.com

I'm not clear on what is required to program the BX-24.  I have the BasicX
development package that came with my BX-1 setup- can I use that compiler/editor
to develop aps for the BX-24?  The rather cryptic documentation on the BasicX
web site indicates that the BX-24 has functions not available on the BX-1,
implying that there are additional instructions available in the library.  If
this is true, then do I need a new compiler (I received version 1.41)?  Does
this come with the chip, or do I need to purchase the development package? Or
can I download it from somewhere on the website (if so, where?)?

Thanks in advance-

peter

The BX-24 does not need a cap.  We do use the DTR line to get basicx's
attention, but we do it in a unique way.  A program that raises or lowers
DTR will not cause a reset in the BX-24.

We have commands in the BX-24 for reset, once we get its attention.  We also
have commands for downloading, reading ram, writing ram, reading EEprom,
writing EEprom, reading external EEprom, and writing EEprom.  In the future
we will make a Visual Basic interface to the BX-24 so that you can send and
receive LIVE data from the BX-24 into Visual Basic.

We (and the stamp) have a separate reset pin if you need to reset the chip.

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: otpres@... <otpres@...>
To: basicx@onelist.com <basicx@onelist.com>
Date: Friday, October 15, 1999 9:01 AM
Subject: [basicx-ListServer] Capacitor on ATN line


>From: otpres@...
>
>This question came up on the Delphi forum, so I thought I'd repeat it
here - do we need the capacitor on the ATN line with the BX24.
>
>The answer was no - not sure why the stamp needed it.
>
>I believe the Stamp II has ATN tied to reset, so if you raise ATN you hold
the device in reset. The cap prevents this and lets the chip run.  We use a
removable jumper on our boards for the same reason.
>
>Does the BX24 implement the reset in a way that is different from the Stamp
II?
>
>Does the BX24 use reset to initiate a download like the stamp or is that
done in a different manner?
>
>Chuck Davis
>Oak Tree Systems
>
>

This question came up on the Delphi forum, so I thought I'd repeat it here - do
we need the capacitor on the ATN line with the BX24.

The answer was no - not sure why the stamp needed it.

I believe the Stamp II has ATN tied to reset, so if you raise ATN you hold the
device in reset. The cap prevents this and lets the chip run.  We use a
removable jumper on our boards for the same reason.

Does the BX24 implement the reset in a way that is different from the Stamp II?

Does the BX24 use reset to initiate a download like the stamp or is that done in
a different manner?

Chuck Davis
Oak Tree Systems

David what is your version number of the BasicX compiler?

I think that there was a bug in the old compiler that could cause the
problem you are having.

It does not seem to occur in version 1.40.

Ram usage is hard to predict, but here is some quicky rules:

Calling subroutines take 9 bytes of stack plus the local variables. (MAIN is
a subroutine)
So if you call a routine that calls a routine that calls a routine, you will
use at least 27 bytes of ram.  If each subroutine has 10 bytes of local
variables, then you have used 57 bytes of ram.

Now all this ram is reclaimed as the routines return, but if you dont have
the ram for the peak usage, you will crash.

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: David Baker <david@...>
To: basicx@onelist.com <basicx@onelist.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 10:27 PM
Subject: [basicx-ListServer] 1) String processing. 2) RAM issues


>From: david@... (David Baker)
>
>I'm playing with interfacing into my GSM module, and have noticed a
>couple of interesting points:
>
>It appears there is no string comparison. You can't do:
> If "E" = "E" Then
>as you get an error when compiling. I guess I'm getting around it by:
> If Asc("E") = Asc("E") Then
>but this makes life difficult. What I really want is something like the VB
>command:
> If Instr(String1, "ERROR") > 0 Then
>but looks like I have to do it one character at a time...
>
>I've found a way to lock up the program (or make it reset itself):
> Dim Test as String
> Test = "A"
> Test = Test + "A"
>works fine - the program makes it through all 3 lines. However:
> Dim Test as String
> Test = ""
> Test = Test + "A"
>doesn't work - the program keeps cycling all the time & never gets past
>the last line. Not sure why this is, but possibly when I make Test = "",
it's
>not a string any more? I'm trying to read in characters 1 at a time from a
>serial port, and put them into a string variable. I can get around it by
>initialising the string as 1 character first, then chopping that character
off
>later, but it seems like a workaround...
>
>I've just ordered 2 RamSandwich boards, as it appears I'm going to run out
>of RAM in my project, but I realise that I'm a bit unclear of the concepts
>here. I can see that static variables take up RAM, and the amount they
>take up is displayed at the bottom of the editor window. I'm not so sure
>about local variables though. The book says they "do not retain their
>values between calls". Does this mean that they also give up the RAM
>they occupy when the module ends? Guess I could write a program & find
>out, but thought I'd test the collective wisdom of the list! Also, is there
any
>way to find out the amount of RAM used at any particular point in the
>program? From what I can see, when RAM is filled up there are some
>pretty unpredictable results.
>
>Dave
>
>

I'm playing with interfacing into my GSM module, and have noticed a
couple of interesting points:

It appears there is no string comparison. You can't do:
	 If "E" = "E" Then
as you get an error when compiling. I guess I'm getting around it by:
	 If Asc("E") = Asc("E") Then
but this makes life difficult. What I really want is something like the VB
command:
	 If Instr(String1, "ERROR") > 0 Then
but looks like I have to do it one character at a time...

I've found a way to lock up the program (or make it reset itself):
	 Dim Test as String
	 Test = "A"
	 Test = Test + "A"
works fine - the program makes it through all 3 lines. However:
	 Dim Test as String
	 Test = ""
	 Test = Test + "A"
doesn't work - the program keeps cycling all the time & never gets past
the last line. Not sure why this is, but possibly when I make Test = "", it's
not a string any more? I'm trying to read in characters 1 at a time from a
serial port, and put them into a string variable. I can get around it by
initialising the string as 1 character first, then chopping that character off
later, but it seems like a workaround...

I've just ordered 2 RamSandwich boards, as it appears I'm going to run out
of RAM in my project, but I realise that I'm a bit unclear of the concepts
here. I can see that static variables take up RAM, and the amount they
take up is displayed at the bottom of the editor window. I'm not so sure
about local variables though. The book says they "do not retain their
values between calls". Does this mean that they also give up the RAM
they occupy when the module ends? Guess I could write a program & find
out, but thought I'd test the collective wisdom of the list! Also, is there any
way to find out the amount of RAM used at any particular point in the
program? From what I can see, when RAM is filled up there are some
pretty unpredictable results.

Dave

On 10 Oct 99, at 23:23, Jack Schoof wrote:

> Therefore a 5 Volt Programmed system would do better than one at less
> voltage.  If you can only muster 2.6 volts, then your EEproms are barely
> programmed.  2.7 Volts is our absolute bottom limit.

Ok, I'll check this out. I remember hooking up external power at one
stage, but found it caused another problem. I can't remember what now,
so I'll try it next time. My 10 units are off in Thailand this time (well
travelled!), so I don't have the full system here to play with.

> PS.  I personally like the Email forum better, and I think we will get rid
> of delphi over time.

Excellent - you are welcome to sign it over to NetMedia rather than myself
as "list-owner" if you like, and moderate it if you feel it necessary...

Regards,

Dave

The Higher the voltage in programming, then the more "reliable" the EEprom
according to Atmel.

Therefore a 5 Volt Programmed system would do better than one at less
voltage.  If you can only muster 2.6 volts, then your EEproms are barely
programmed.  2.7 Volts is our absolute bottom limit.

If you connected a battery, say 4 lithium 1.2 Volt AA cells, then this would
give you good programming power.  You could hook them into your download
cable.

When you use external EEproms, the code is locked by software and cannot be
changed without an unlock sequence being generated.  This is highly unlikely
during a power out condition.  As a further precaution, you can use the
hardware write protect pin.  The EEprom chip would then have to be
programmed to accept this pin.  See the documentation on the Atmel 25256 on
the Atmel site.

We could give you a code "snippet" that would allow your program to lock
itself in place.

The Batteries/Starter combination sounds like one reverse spike just waiting
to happen.  You really need to clamp the front end with a diode as I
described - and a big one at that - maybe a one amp rating.  Even without a
Shottky Diode,  a regular 1N4001 would be cheap insurance.

PS.  I personally like the Email forum better, and I think we will get rid
of delphi over time.

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: David Baker <david@...>
To: basicx@onelist.com <basicx@onelist.com>
Date: Sunday, October 10, 1999 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [basicx] Reset chips


>From: david@... (David Baker)
>
>On 10 Oct 99, at 10:08, Jack Schoof wrote:
>
>> From: "Jack Schoof" <jschoof@...>
>
>Ahh, good to see NetMedia has an "unofficial" presence here! :-)
>
>> Are you using internal EEprom? or External EEprom?  External is locked
and
>> cannot be written without a software unlock.  This is much more reliable.
>
>The units I had problems with were using internal EEPROMS. The reset
>chip fixed most of the problems, but the next version will have external
>EEPROMs anyway.
>
>> I do not know why you should have problems with a reset chip unless your
>> programming voltage is too low.  Are you programming with only Parallel
>> port power?  If so, you need at least a good solid 5 volts to use the
>> reset chip. Many parallel ports do not have enough power to provide the
>> programming voltage.
>
>I don't believe the problem was caused during the programming stage -
>the units would work fine for days on end, but due to bad power they
>would fail occasionally - maybe once a week. Chris sent me info which
>seems to back up my theory.
>
>Actually, the parallel port power is the subject of my next mystery. How
>do you tell what is "enough power"? Is the voltage too low or is it a lack
of
>available current? My Vcc on the BasicX chip is only 2.6V, and with a
>3.3V reset chip in there, the BasicX chip is always held in reset mode. If
I
>take the reset chip out of the circuit, I can program the BasicX chip
again.
>Makes in-situ programming difficult when I have to desolder my
>components! :-)
>
>> The internal code could also be hurt by reverse voltage.  If you have
>> power problems on your boats, maybe you get power spikes in the negative
>> direction.  To cure this, you need to place a  Schottky Diode (low
forward
>> voltage drop) from ground pointing toward your 5 volt lead.  If your 5
>> volts ever gets below ground by 0.2 volts then the diode will conduct
>> providing "power" from ground - never letting the 5 volt lead ever
getting
>> less than 0.2 volts away from the ground lead.
>
>This is a possibility - these units were installed on fishing boats which
use
>12V truck batteries, and the engine starter motor is probably hooked
>straight to the battery. Unfortunately we didn't find this out until after
I had
>sent the units to Vietnam for the job - the boats were "supposed" to have
>nice clean power! It wasn't a huge problem, as my Indonesian engineer
>partner was on board one of the boats for the whole trip, so he would just
>reprogram any BasicX chips that had lost their minds. Future versions of
>my project will definitely have better power protection circuitry built-in.
>
>Dave
>
>

On 10 Oct 99, at 10:08, Jack Schoof wrote:

> From: "Jack Schoof" <jschoof@...>

Ahh, good to see NetMedia has an "unofficial" presence here! :-)

> Are you using internal EEprom? or External EEprom?  External is locked and
> cannot be written without a software unlock.  This is much more reliable.

The units I had problems with were using internal EEPROMS. The reset
chip fixed most of the problems, but the next version will have external
EEPROMs anyway.

> I do not know why you should have problems with a reset chip unless your
> programming voltage is too low.  Are you programming with only Parallel
> port power?  If so, you need at least a good solid 5 volts to use the
> reset chip. Many parallel ports do not have enough power to provide the
> programming voltage.

I don't believe the problem was caused during the programming stage -
the units would work fine for days on end, but due to bad power they
would fail occasionally - maybe once a week. Chris sent me info which
seems to back up my theory.

Actually, the parallel port power is the subject of my next mystery. How
do you tell what is "enough power"? Is the voltage too low or is it a lack of
available current? My Vcc on the BasicX chip is only 2.6V, and with a
3.3V reset chip in there, the BasicX chip is always held in reset mode. If I
take the reset chip out of the circuit, I can program the BasicX chip again.
Makes in-situ programming difficult when I have to desolder my
components! :-)

> The internal code could also be hurt by reverse voltage.  If you have
> power problems on your boats, maybe you get power spikes in the negative
> direction.  To cure this, you need to place a  Schottky Diode (low forward
> voltage drop) from ground pointing toward your 5 volt lead.  If your 5
> volts ever gets below ground by 0.2 volts then the diode will conduct
> providing "power" from ground - never letting the 5 volt lead ever getting
> less than 0.2 volts away from the ground lead.

This is a possibility - these units were installed on fishing boats which use
12V truck batteries, and the engine starter motor is probably hooked
straight to the battery. Unfortunately we didn't find this out until after I had
sent the units to Vietnam for the job - the boats were "supposed" to have
nice clean power! It wasn't a huge problem, as my Indonesian engineer
partner was on board one of the boats for the whole trip, so he would just
reprogram any BasicX chips that had lost their minds. Future versions of
my project will definitely have better power protection circuitry built-in.

Dave

On 10 Oct 99, at 21:18, Bruce Adams wrote:

> I hadn't gotten a Stamp yet primarily because
> I wasn't sure how much of a learning curve I was in for with the
> StampBasic language. I've taught myself Visual Basic over the last few
> years, and am fairly comfortable with it, but with no formal programming
> theory education, it looked like a *lot* of work to make a complex program
> on the Stamp.

I think if you can handle visual basic, then Stamp basic would be very
easy indeed. It's not event-driven in the same way that Visual Basic is, so
you don't have to think of the myriad of different buttons that a person
could click on to send your program off to places you didn't expect. It's
quite simple...too simple for some of the projects I use, hence my
switching to BasicX for some applications.

> So... can anyone tell me what are the primary differences between BasicX
> VB and the MS Visual Basic I'm accustomed to?

It's pretty much the same. I don't program using the VB editor though - I
use the onboard editor. Your main difference is going to be the functions
that are required to talk to the outside world - GetPin, OpenQueue,
OpenCom, PutQueueStr & other things like that. I'm an electronics
engineer with no formal programming qualifications, but have had far less
problems with the software than the hardware!

Dave
--
------------------------------------------------------
|      David Baker       |     david@...     |
|  Electronics Engineer  |   Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |
|----------------------------------------------------|
| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/8552/ |
------------------------------------------------------

On 10 Oct 99, at 13:30, Peter H. Anderson wrote:

> If, during the execution of your program you are not writing to the
> outboard EEPROM, perhaps you can ground the /WP lead on the 25LC320.

My first project (that had about 1 erasure per day out of 10 units
operating) was using the internal EEPROM. I got the following email from
Chris at NetMedia:

>  The need for a low power reset device is a new issue that recently came
> up, it is not required for proper operation in most applications but can
> help solve one particular problem that may sometime arise. The problem is
> most prevalent in battery powered BasicX devices that are switched on and
> off many times per day using a toggle or similar switch. What happens is
> this. Due to the "noisy" nature of  toggle switches they will cause
> momentary power fluctuations that will corrupt the data contained within
> the BasicX internal EEPROM. Once this EEPROM data is corrupted the BasicX
> chip will stop executing user code until it is has been reprogrammed.
> This applies for programs that exist in ether internal or external EEPROM.
> The solution is to use a low power reset device such as a ZM33164 from
> ZETEX to hold the BasicX chip in reset until the power has stabilized
> above 3.5 volts.

My 2nd version has the reset chips fitted & so far I've had 1 erasure
reported, which isn't too bad seeing the 10 units have been out there for
almost 2 months.

My code has grown since that initial version, so the next version has an
external EEPROM - I'll certainly look at grounding this lead.


Dave

Greetings fellow list members,

> I see we have 7 subscribers now - might be enough to get some info
> flowing...
>

Alas, I have no experience with the BasicX, nor any microcontrollers, for
that matter. I am very interested in getting into it, though. I maintain the
instrumentation and control system at the wastewater treatment plant where I
work. I can see many applications for microcontrollers in that setting.
Plus, it's just too cool this technology is available to the hobbyist!

I have been following the Parallax Stamp list. A great bunch of people, and
very free with the help. I hadn't gotten a Stamp yet primarily because I
wasn't sure how much of a learning curve I was in for with the StampBasic
language. I've taught myself Visual Basic over the last few years, and am
fairly comfortable with it, but with no formal programming theory education,
it looked like a *lot* of work to make a complex program on the Stamp.

When someone on the Stamp list mentioned the Basic Stamp, I checked it out.
Wow! Visual Basic on a microcontroller?!? Somebody pinch me!

So... can anyone tell me what are the primary differences between BasicX VB
and the MS Visual Basic I'm accustomed to?

Thanks,
Bruce Adams

P.S., I hope this list takes off, because I loathe that thing they've got
over on Delphi!

Dave,

My experience with the BasicX is limited.

If, during the execution of your program you are not writing to the outboard
EEPROM, perhaps you can ground the /WP lead on the 25LC320.

But anyone with the initiative you have probably has considered this.

Peter H. Anderson, Morgan State University
pha@..., http://www.phanderson.com
-----Original Message-----
From: David Baker <david@...>
To: basicx@onelist.com <basicx@onelist.com>
Date: Sunday, October 10, 1999 12:32 PM
Subject: [basicx] Reset chips


:From: david@... (David Baker)
:
:I see we have 7 subscribers now - might be enough to get some info
:flowing...
:
:I'm wondering if anyone has built systems with the BasicX chips & had
:trouble with the firmware being erased by bad power? I had this problem in
:my first design, so NetMedia sent me some reset chips. These "may"
:have solved the problem (though I think I have had one erasure even with
:the reset chip), but they cause other problems like not being able to
:program in-situ.
:
:I'd be interested in hearing of other's experiences....or am I the only one
:fool enough to put 10 of these devices in small wooden fishing boats in
:the middle of the South China Sea? :-)
:
:Dave
:--
:------------------------------------------------------
:|      David Baker       |     david@...     |
:|  Electronics Engineer  |   Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |
:|----------------------------------------------------|
:| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/8552/ |
:------------------------------------------------------
:
::

Are you using internal EEprom? or External EEprom?  External is locked and
cannot be written without a software unlock.  This is much more reliable.

I do not know why you should have problems with a reset chip unless your
programming voltage is too low.  Are you programming with only Parallel port
power?  If so, you need at least a good solid 5 volts to use the reset chip.
Many parallel ports do not have enough power to provide the programming
voltage.

The internal code could also be hurt by reverse voltage.  If you have power
problems on your boats, maybe you get power spikes in the negative
direction.  To cure this, you need to place a  Schottky Diode (low forward
voltage drop) from ground pointing toward your 5 volt lead.  If your 5 volts
ever gets below ground by 0.2 volts then the diode will conduct providing
"power" from ground - never letting the 5 volt lead ever getting less than
0.2 volts away from the ground lead.

I hope that helps....

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: David Baker <david@...>
To: basicx@onelist.com <basicx@onelist.com>
Date: Sunday, October 10, 1999 9:29 AM
Subject: [basicx] Reset chips


>From: david@... (David Baker)
>
>I see we have 7 subscribers now - might be enough to get some info
>flowing...
>
>I'm wondering if anyone has built systems with the BasicX chips & had
>trouble with the firmware being erased by bad power? I had this problem in
>my first design, so NetMedia sent me some reset chips. These "may"
>have solved the problem (though I think I have had one erasure even with
>the reset chip), but they cause other problems like not being able to
>program in-situ.
>
>I'd be interested in hearing of other's experiences....or am I the only one
>fool enough to put 10 of these devices in small wooden fishing boats in
>the middle of the South China Sea? :-)
>
>Dave
>--
>------------------------------------------------------
>|      David Baker       |     david@...     |
>|  Electronics Engineer  |   Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |
>|----------------------------------------------------|
>| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/8552/ |
>------------------------------------------------------
>
>

I see we have 7 subscribers now - might be enough to get some info
flowing...

I'm wondering if anyone has built systems with the BasicX chips & had
trouble with the firmware being erased by bad power? I had this problem in
my first design, so NetMedia sent me some reset chips. These "may"
have solved the problem (though I think I have had one erasure even with
the reset chip), but they cause other problems like not being able to
program in-situ.

I'd be interested in hearing of other's experiences....or am I the only one
fool enough to put 10 of these devices in small wooden fishing boats in
the middle of the South China Sea? :-)

Dave
--
------------------------------------------------------
|      David Baker       |     david@...     |
|  Electronics Engineer  |   Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |
|----------------------------------------------------|
| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/8552/ |
------------------------------------------------------

Hi all,

as I was the one who started this list, I guess I should actually post a
message!

I had been asking NetMedia to start some sort of list for ages, as I felt
that support & info were lacking, and that peer-to-peer support would
definitely help. However, they took ages, so eventually I signed up this
list. Lo & behold, the same day NetMedia started their own web-based list.

I'm not overly keen on web lists, as it takes too long to surf around.
OneList provides a much easier system where we can check & reply at
our leisure. I'm not trying to go into competition with NetMedia, and it's
my hope that they will see the light & move over to an email-based list
themselves. Than can moderate or administer this list if they like.

Anyway, back to the Basicx!

I have 20 or so BasicX chips & 2 programmers. I designed a system that
reads in data from a GPS unit, modifies it (by appending an ID), then
transmits that data through a radio. We use this system to track fishing
vessels that do scouting jobs for our company. There could be 10 or so
vessels out at once doing the job...

Troubles I have had, and continue to have are:

Resetting: I found out after deploying a system to Vietnam that when
power is bad (running off a 12V truck battery that goes flat gradually), it is
quite easy for the BasicX chip to lose it's program entirely. Only then did
NetMedia let me know of this problem, and sold me a few ZM33 reset
chips. I have installed these on a new system & deployed it in Thailand. It
seems better, though I have STILL had one system go down with an
erased program. It means that the technician needs to carry a few spare
chips & a chip programmer with him & replace them when required.

Programming in-situ: I am unable to program in-situ using the 7 pin
header supplied. I built a circuit board which houses a BasicX chip, an
EEPROM (25256) & assorted circuitry. When I try to program in situ, it
doesn't work - I measure Vcc on the chip & I only get 2.56V DC which is
below the threshold of the reset chip, so the reset chip holds the BasicX
chip in reset mode & it can't be programmed. Programming with an
external voltage of 5V applied to the programming board doesn't work - I
get error 256 (I think - the board is packed up at the moment). The only
way around this so far is to put the EEPROM & BasicX chip back into the
programmer & do the programming there each time. This takes longer &
has a better chance of mangling the BasicX chip legs... (A ZIF socket
won't fit in the space provided - I've tried!)

RS-232: I used the transistor schematic that NetMedia use on their
programming board to talk to my GPS & radio. It worked fine on the
prototype, but when I put a 10 metre cable in the middle, it wouldn't work
any more. I have now incorporated a MAX233 into my circuit.

So, that's what I'm up to. I plan to use these chips a lot in future projects
as they are more powerful than the Stamp I, II & IISX units I have been
using for years, & feel that the level of information & documentation is
barely adequate at best. Presumably there aren't many people using
these chips yet, and I guess things will improve when more users come
on board.

Cheers,

Dave
--
------------------------------------------------------
|      David Baker       |     david@...     |
|  Electronics Engineer  |   Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |
|----------------------------------------------------|
| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/8552/ |
------------------------------------------------------

Test
--
------------------------------------------------------
|      David Baker       |     david@...     |
|  Electronics Engineer  |   Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |
|----------------------------------------------------|
| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/8552/ |
------------------------------------------------------