beemonitoring : Messages : 51-80 of 2734

#51

From: Liz Day <beebuzz@...>
Date: Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:42 am
Subject: Re: Bombus-GroundIvy Connection?

beebuzz@...

>Are you suggesting that Ground Ivy nectar/pollen is inferior to that which
>is produced by other flowers?

No.

  >And, what study/data are you drawing from which demonstrates bumblebees
visit Ground Ivy because they are desparate, not because they prefer it?

  >No data; I'm guessing.   My impression from living in the Midwest is that
there are plenty of places where bumblebee forage seems to be scarce.   I
sometimes wonder how they survive.   But you would have to study the
resources in each area to get a definitive answer.

Liz Day
Indianapolis (where they seem especially scarce)
USA
> >That's interesting that bees of all those proboscis lengths will use the
>
> >same flower. Quantitative data on frequency of use by each of those
> >species would be interesting. Bumble bees will investigate a wide range
> of
> >flowers, in my experience, but typically settle quickly on those that
> are
> >a good morphological match and rewarding.
>
>I would guess they are short of food in early spring and desperate for
>anything with nectar. Often in early spring I have walked around urban
>areas and there is very little of *anything* in bloom (at least on the
>ground; there may be bleeding sap or nectar/pollen in some trees).
>
>Liz Day
>Indianapolis Indiana USA
>
>
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (15)

#52

From: "Mary Travaglini" <mtravaglini@...>
Date: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:00 pm
Subject: RE: Bombus-GroundIvy Connection?

mtravaglini@...

Send Email

Liz,

To be certain, as someone who works in the field of invasive species, there likely will never be a way to wholesale get rid of a non-native species once it is well established, especially established for so long that some co-evolution has occurred, unless it was something we as humans desire to kill for food, fur, or fun, or a major disease gets it. Something like ground ivy, even if natural lands managers were able to eliminate it, will continue to love people's gardens and lawns. So part of my job is to never dream of elimating anything on a large scale, or think that way.

In the long run, we should ultimately be concerned about the loss of habitat that harbor the native plants insects need, as well as protect those plants from new invasions by pests and pathogens. If the habitat is healthy enough, and native plant populations diverse enough, any insect that adapted to an intoduced plant ought to be able to readapt back to its original hosts if they are there or populations are restored.

From my perspective, scientists only lump exotics together when they are addressing policy and public education issues, as we all agree there is no one single approach to any solution, and even policy issues each have a different approach when dealing with aquatic freshwater, aquatic marine, forest, wetland, grassland, soil and other pests, etc. Just like the CDC lumps diseases into bigger categories and then breaks down each one for solutions to the problem. We also don't treat all exotics as invasive, as they are not all invasive, so not every exotic is considered for control. You brought up apples and oranges--for instance, oranges are exotic in the US, but no one ever considers thinking of them as a problem in natural areas, and therefore would not get lumped with starlings for any sort of discussion, unless someone linked their country of origin, etc. I think you'll find there is not one "non-native" container definition among those of us addressing these issues and that the definitions out there are not quite so vague and poorly defined, but that perhaps public education is not getting out the way it should or that the issue is more complex than can be easily disseminated well--I agree that there could be a whole library on associations that have occurred through introductions, and the complexities of the issues. Not being an entemologist, my perspective is that insects are more likely to experience adaptations and evolutions faster than other species, and my biggest concern is that the rate of exotic exchange that has blossomed with global trade and travel, and habitat degredation and loss will ultimately be more of a detriment to insect diversity than anything.

Mary Travaglini
Potomac Gorge Habitat Restoration Manager
The Nature Conservancy of MD/DC
5410 Grosvenor Lane, Suite 100
Bethesda, MD 20814

(301) 897-8570 x235

fax: (301) 897-0858

"In ecological release, an organism escapes its home and parachutes into an ecosystem that has never encountered it before...a few...look around with the hopeful incredulity of juvenile delinquents who discovered the mall's security cameras are broken--and wreak havoc." Charles Mann

-----Original Message-----
From: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com [mailto:beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Liz Day
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 8:06 PM
To: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [beemonitoring] Bombus-GroundIvy Connection?

>Learning more about what "role" that native species play in the spread of
>non-native species is important because it reframes the conversation away
>from the highly-charged and vague, but thoroughly unscientific terminology
>like "alien" and "invasive". By asking, what if the native Bombus prefer
>Ground Ivy because the Ground Ivy's flower evolved to serve Bombus better,
>we shift away from looking for a one-sized-fits-all diagnostic that
>explains the how and why of each and every successful species
>introduction-naturalization.
>
>In the background is an unexamined bias against "non-native" species. If
>anything points to a bias against "non-native" species it is that the
>"non-native container" is so poorly defined and vague that anything can be
>placed into it or removed at will.

This assertion confuses me. Is there not usually fairly good concensus
for most organisms of concern that they either were present in N. America
well before European immigration, or else have been brought in by people
since then? Perhaps I am not up to speed on this.

There is a big difference between the question of whether something is
native or exotic, and the question of whether an exotic organism's presence
is desirable or detrimental or both or neither.

>There are many apples and oranges to be sorted out, too. How shameful
>that the science community allows the Chestnut Blight, Siberian Elm, and
>the Starling to be lumped into a group together!
> The most dangerous result of this "lumping" iwould be attempts to
> fashion one-size-fits-all responses to dealing with them (ie,
> eradication, chemicals/poisons, propaganda).

>Consider this: Not long ago, the New England population of the Baltimore
>Checkerspot butterfly "discovered" that Plantago lanceolata contains the
>same chemicals needed for its larvae to develop. By adding the Plantain
>to its menu, the New England Baltimore Checkerspot's population is
>expanding for the first time.
>
>In contrast the Mid-Atlantic population of Baltimore Checkerspots has not
>adopted Plantain so Maryland's state insect (which I've never seen in
>person) continues to decline in this area along with its wetland habitat.
>
>With that in mind, is wholesale and wanton eradication of the non-native
>P. laceolata still called for?

Is it occurring?

>Or, does the emergent Baltimore Checkerspot-P. lanceolata ecological
>association demonstrates how far along Plantago has integrated into the
>environment. (By integrate I mean the constellation of ecological
>associations formed between Plantago and other New England lifeforms since
>it arrived.) How many micro-associations between Plantago and other
>species have taken place which are not as easily noticed as the
>Checkerspot-Plantago relationship?

Surely the topic of the ecological changes caused by new species
associations as our world is flooded with non-indigenous plants and animals
would need a whole library of studies to cover it.

Liz Day
Indianapolis Indiana USA
(where bumblebees do use ground ivy)

Reply | Messages in this Topic (15)

#53

From: "Thomas of Baltimore" <photosbythom@...>
Date: Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:41 pm
Subject: Re: Bombus-GroundIvy Connection?

photosbythom@...

Send Email

[EDIT]

Can you share the pollen analysis data of the Gorge soil which show what percentage of the species living there when John Smith sailed the Chesapeake? And from that analysis please indicate which species were living there before humans crossed the landbridge onto N.A.?

Specifically I'd love to see the pollen analysis data from the period when Native peoples arrived in the Gorge until John Smith's sailing. If nothing changed, then my hypothesis is wrong.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (15)

#54

From: "Thomas of Baltimore" <photosbythom@...>
Date: Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:37 pm
Subject: Re: Bombus-GroundIvy Connection?

photosbythom@...

Send Email

Mary:

Liz didn't post what you responded to... I, Thomas of Baltimore, did.

I notice you work in the Potomac Gorge which I was surprised to read is one of the most biologically rich areas in the U.S. park system. Does the Nature Conservancy think that this biodiversity sprung out of the ground? Does the Conservancy teach that the richness of species resulted only from "natural" forces (as opposed to human intervention?) Or, does the N.C. include the Native American people in the category of "natural" influences on the biodiversity of the gorge?

Can you prove that some of the biodiversity in the Gorge is not a result of species introductions by the indigenous people over time?

The landscape that John Smith "found" along the Chesapeake Bay was a managed landscape which reflected the sum total impact of every choice made by the local (Native) people as well as the accumulation of impacts from every human activity that took place.

Surely, the Native Americans favored some local plants for food and medicine and discouraged others (poison ivy). And we know that there was a network of footpaths upon which Native families and tribes traded food and furs with each other. Then is it also not reasonable that seeds and plants also moved along these byways (both intentional and not?)

Can you prove that non-local (non-native) plant species were not introduced (intentionally or not) to the Mid-Atlantic from New England, and vice versa? How about from the Gulf Coast to New England (and vice versa?) And what about between the tribes across the Appalachians from each other? Can you prove that none of the plant species living in the Gorge were introduced (intentionally or not) by Native people's from as far away as Mexico?

Can you share the pollen analysis data of the Gorge soil which show what percentage of the species living there when John Smith sailed the Chesapeake were living there before humans crossed the landbridge onto N.A.? Specifically I'd love for you to show the pollen analysis data of the period when Natives arrived in the Gorge until John Smith's sailing. If nothing changed, then my hypothesis is wrong.

On 12/22/06, Mary Travaglini <mtravaglini@...> wrote:

Liz,

To be certain, as someone who works in the field of invasive species, there likely will never be a way to wholesale get rid of a non-native species once it is well established, especially established for so long that some co-evolution has occurred, unless it was something we as humans desire to kill for food, fur, or fun, or a major disease gets it. Something like ground ivy, even if natural lands managers were able to eliminate it, will continue to love people's gardens and lawns. So part of my job is to never dream of elimating anything on a large scale, or think that way.

In the long run, we should ultimately be concerned about the loss of habitat that harbor the native plants insects need, as well as protect those plants from new invasions by pests and pathogens. If the habitat is healthy enough, and native plant populations diverse enough, any insect that adapted to an intoduced plant ought to be able to readapt back to its original hosts if they are there or populations are restored.

From my perspective, scientists only lump exotics together when they are addressing policy and public education issues, as we all agree there is no one single approach to any solution, and even policy issues each have a different approach when dealing with aquatic freshwater, aquatic marine, forest, wetland, grassland, soil and other pests, etc. Just like the CDC lumps diseases into bigger categories and then breaks down each one for solutions to the problem. We also don't treat all exotics as invasive, as they are not all invasive, so not every exotic is considered for control. You brought up apples and oranges--for instance, oranges are exotic in the US, but no one ever considers thinking of them as a problem in natural areas, and therefore would not get lumped with starlings for any sort of discussion, unless someone linked their country of origin, etc. I think you'll find there is not one "non-native" container definition among those of us addressing these issues and that the definitions out there are not quite so vague and poorly defined, but that perhaps public education is not getting out the way it should or that the issue is more complex than can be easily disseminated well --I agree that there could be a whole library on associations that have occurred through introductions, and the complexities of the issues. Not being an entemologist, my perspective is that insects are more likely to experience adaptations and evolutions faster than other species, and my biggest concern is that the rate of exotic exchange that has blossomed with global trade and travel, and habitat degredation and loss will ultimately be more of a detriment to insect diversity than anything.

Mary Travaglini
Potomac Gorge Habitat Restoration Manager
The Nature Conservancy of MD/DC
5410 Grosvenor Lane, Suite 100
Bethesda, MD 20814

(301) 897-8570 x235

fax: (301) 897-0858

"In ecological release, an organism escapes its home and parachutes into an ecosystem that has never encountered it before...a few...look around with the hopeful incredulity of juvenile delinquents who discovered the mall's security cameras are broken--and wreak havoc." Charles Mann

-----Original Message-----
From: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com [mailto: beemonitori ng@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Liz Day
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 8:06 PM
To: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [beemonitoring] Bombus-GroundIvy Connection?

>Learning more about what "role" that native species play in the spread of
>non-native species is important because it reframes the conversation away
>from the highly-charged and vague, but thoroughly unscientific terminology
>like "alien" and "invasive". By asking, what if the native Bombus prefer
>Ground Ivy because the Ground Ivy's flower evolved to serve Bombus better,
>we shift away from looking for a one-sized-fits-all diagnostic that
>explains the how and why of each and every successful species
>introduction-naturalization.
>
>In the background is an unexamined bias against "non-native" species. If
>anything points to a bias against "non-native" species it is that the
>"non-native container" is so poorly defined and vague that anything can be
>placed into it or removed at will.

This assertion confuses me. Is there not usually fairly good concensus
for most organisms of concern that they either were present in N. America
well before European immigration, or else have been brought in by people
since then? Perhaps I am not up to speed on this.

There is a big difference between the question of whether something is
native or exotic, and the question of whether an exotic organism's presence
is desirable or detrimental or both or neither.

>There are many apples and oranges to be sorted out, too. How shameful
>that the science community allows the Chestnut Blight, Siberian Elm, and
>the Starling to be lumped into a group together!
> The most dangerous result of this "lumping" iwould be attempts to
> fashion one-size-fits-all responses to dealing with them (ie,
> eradication, chemicals/poisons, propaganda).

>Consider this: Not long ago, the New England population of the Baltimore
>Checkerspot butterfly "discovered" that Plantago lanceolata contains the
>same chemicals needed for its larvae to develop. By adding the Plantain
>to its menu, the New England Baltimore Checkerspot's population is
>expanding for the first time.
>
>In contrast the Mid-Atlantic population of Baltimore Checkerspots has not
>adopted Plantain so Maryland's state insect (which I've never seen in
>person) continues to decline in this area along with its wetland habitat.
>
>With that in mind, is wholesale and wanton eradication of the non-native
>P. laceolata still called for?

Is it occurring?

>Or, does the emergent Baltimore Checkerspot-P. lanceolata ecological
>association demonstrates how far along Plantago has integrated into the
>environment. (By integrate I mean the constellation of ecological
>associations formed between Plantago and other New England lifeforms since
>it arrived.) How many micro-associations between Plantago and other
>species have taken place which are not as easily noticed as the
>Checkerspot-Plantago relationship?

Surely the topic of the ecological changes caused by new species
associations as our world is flooded with non-indigenous plants and animals
would need a whole library of studies to cover it.

Liz Day
Indianapolis Indiana USA
(where bumblebees do use ground ivy)

Reply | Messages in this Topic (15)

#55

From: "Thomas of Baltimore" <photosbythom@...>
Date: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:16 am
Subject: New Photo Gallery

photosbythom@...

Send Email

I uploaded my collection of bee images from 2006. Please take a look.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#56

From: "John S. Ascher" <ascher@...>
Date: Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:53 pm
Subject: Re: New Photo Gallery

limon_cocha

Send Email

The photos are beautiful and an excellent contribution. Note that the last
photo is of a male Hoplitis (Alcidamea). The modified antennae are
visible.

I apologize for criticizing your email so bluntly. I was a little
frustrated to receive so many messages in my main email account (not all
from you by any means), but I realize this is my own fault for not
organizing my inbox. I was also somewhat upset by your comments on
invasive species as they seemed to include some political or sociological
commentary that I didn't care for, some comments about plants, but not
much about bee monitoring.

John


> I uploaded my collection of bee images from 2006.  Please take a look.
>


--
John S. Ascher, Ph.D.
Bee Database Project Manager
Division of Invertebrate Zoology
American Museum of Natural History
Central Park West @ 79th St.
New York, NY 10024-5192
work phone: 212-496-3447
mobile phone: 917-407-0378

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#57

From: "Thomas of Baltimore" <photosbythom@...>
Date: Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:54 pm
Subject: Re: New Photo Gallery

photosbythom@...

Send Email

John:

Thank you for the compliment and I apologize, as well, for my strong reaction.

Any discussion of the ecology of the city, and the ecology of bees in the city, will necessarily include socio-political discussion. It is unavoidable.

As an amateur urban naturalist I am particularly interested in the whole notion of introduced species which is why I mentioned it on the message board. But let's not let any disagreement on that topic overshadow what we do agree on -- our love of bees.

Happy holidays,

Warmly, Thom Wilson of Baltimore City

On 12/23/06, John S. Ascher <ascher@...> wrote:

The photos are beautiful and an excellent contribution. Note that the last
photo is of a male Hoplitis (Alcidamea). The modified antennae are
visible.

I apologize for criticizing your email so bluntly. I was a little
frustrated to receive so many messages in my main email account (not all
from you by any means), but I realize this is my own fault for not
organizing my inbox. I was also somewhat upset by your comments on
invasive species as they seemed to include some political or sociological
commentary that I didn't care for, some comments about plants, but not
much about bee monitoring.

John

> I uploaded my collection of bee images from 2006. Please take a look.
>

--
John S. Ascher, Ph.D.
Bee Database Project Manager
Division of Invertebrate Zoology
American Museum of Natural History
Central Park West @ 79th St.
New York, NY 10024-5192
work phone: 212-496-3447
mobile phone: 917-407-0378

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#58

From: "Thomas of Baltimore" <photosbythom@...>
Date: Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:07 am
Subject: Re: Ascher and the BeeMonitoring List

photosbythom@...

Send Email

Sam:

Of course, this "conflict of interests" points to more than mere descriptions of message board forums.

As I told John, I am a "beemonitor" who lives in Baltimore City. And, as you well know, it is impossible to discuss bees without discussing flowers. And, in the urban environment context it is impossible to discuss flowers without confronting "non-native" plant species.

Therefore what John characterized as my "too numerous posts" to the forum involve exploring the topic of the relationship between bees and non-native flowers in the urban ecosystem.

And, I went on to argue that [a]ny discussion of the ecology of the city, and the ecology of bees in the city, will necessarily include socio-political discussion. It is unavoidable.

To me, bee monitoring is inherently socio-political because it is part environmental advocacy and part citizen science. And to truly make any sense of bees in the urban context requires exploration and examination from every angel and of every subject or topic.

If you intend to bring involve the public in beemonitoring activities then I can assure you can expect that there will be as many different perspectives to accomodate as there are goals and objectives to consider.

I posted my bee survey photos to the yahoo group to [a] establish the legitimicy of my interest in the subject, and [b] to illustrate the importance of non-native flowers to my local native bee fauna by showing the specimen in situ with its pollen source.

As a simple analysis I reviewed each specimen in my bee gallery and tallied each occurance of a non-native/native flowers. Of those with bee on flower 23 are introduced species (11 garden specimens and 12 weeds), while only 9 are "native".

As with the Ptilothrix-Rose Of Sharon relationship, these numbers suggests that the my local bee fauna depend in large measure on the the presence of the non-native flora for their continued existence in this area.

Which brings me to some criticisms of your decision to exclusively use pitfall traps in your upcoming bee monitoring project:

1. Pitfall traps cannot tell you anything about which plants the collected bees depend on. (This limits collecting data that would help establish how important introduced plant species are to bees in other areas.)

2. Photodocumentation and pan traps each have limitations and opportunities which if brought together will ensure accurate depictions of local bee fauna.

3. According to James Cane, "samples from guilds typically contain fewer instances of difficult congenerics that need to be distinguished, as well as more cases in which a genus is represented by a single species in a given guild."

4. Further along he adds, "Pan traps ... preferentially catch small-bodied bees, especially sweat bees, and miss many bee taxa altogether (J. H. Cane, unpublished manuscript; T. L. Griswold, unpublished manuscript )."

What do you think?

Warmly, Thomas of Baltimore City

(Source: James Cane research - http://www.ecologyandsociety.org/vol5/iss1/art3/#Theprimacyoftaxonomyandidentification )

On Bugguide you ID'd one of my specimens -- Ptilothrix bombiformis:

http://bugguide.net/node/view/88073

I observed the specimen in the park near my house. The area is a former trash dump. Sam Droege mentioned this species is a Hibiscus specialist so it is likely that this species is using the introduced Rose-of-Sharon which I have observed growing nearby.

As I have not recorded any native hibiscus in the area, the continued presence of my local population is dependent in large part on the Rose-Of-Sharon.

On 12/27/06, Sam Droege <sdroege@...> wrote:

Thom:

Ah, I will have to look at what I wrote!

thanks

sam

"Thomas of Baltimore" <photosbythom@... >
12/27/2006 12:31 PM

To
"Sam Droege" <sdroege@...>

cc

Subject
Re: Ascher and the BeeMonitoring List

Sam:

Yes, John and I are cool again. I've learned that it is best to provide data when speaking to scientists so my bee gallery was just the medicine needed.

Not to split hairs here but the "Beemonitoring" yahoo group description suggests that the group is interesred in more than you are suggesting here. Perhaps a revision is called for.

-Thom

On 12/27/06, Sam Droege < sdroege@... > wrote:

Hi Thom:

John is a good guy, but can be so direct as to be impolitic, but it sounds like you guys are working that out. John does have a point, however, which is that in general it is better to take conversations with specific people about specific topics off the listserve and email their personal accounts. The bee monitoring list is largely specific to issues of surveys and is very low volume most of the time. The entomology list entomol-l is a better place for general questions and has a much bigger audience to boot.

sam

Sam Droege Sam_Droege@...
w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705
Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

There was a man who loved bees.
He always was their friend.
He used to sit upon their hive.
But they stung him, in the end.
- Nick Wallingford

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#59

From: Liz Day <beebuzz@...>
Date: Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:03 am
Subject: traps

fervidobombus

Send Email

Speaking of traps, has anyone tried the brilliant blue plastic ones that
cause bees to land in a bottle?
Sujaya Rao, Bill Stephen's student, says that they catch many more
bumblebees than pan traps do.
At least, they did in Oregon.   I liked that no water was involved.


---------------------------------------------
Liz Day
Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA
(40 N latitude, USDA zone 5b)
----------------------------------------------

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#60

From: "Thomas of Baltimore" <photosbythom@...>
Date: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:44 pm
Subject: Re: Bombus-GroundIvy Connection?

photosbythom@...

Send Email

Mary:

I am not suggesting that wholesale eradication of non-native plants will automatically result in extirpation of local bee species but I do am suggesting that in the absence of wholescale replacement of my local non-native dominated plantscape with a comparable and sustainable plantscape dominated by natives would unnecessarily compromise the stability of my local bee diversity.

I am suggesting that the presence of the non-native plants at my local scale has served to bridge the survival of my local bee species into the present. Knowing this does not give me the luxury to be so cavalier in my attitudes toward "non-native" species. In fact, this has made me appreciate and respect them more!

Do you not see the bias against non-natives that so obviously infects the quote chosen for your signature? What kind of thinking sees a parallel between a kind of human pathology (often impoverishment) and Cirsium arvense (Canada Thistle), for example?

-Thom

Reply | Messages in this Topic (15)

#61

From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
Date: Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:01 pm
Subject: Blue Vane Traps

sam_droege

Send Email

Liz:

We have had mixed results out where we are in Maryland. I put them out in a variety of situations and found that they do get more bumblebees that pan traps do on average, but don't seem to get them at as high a rate as what Stephen and Rao's groups do in the NW. We also found they tend to get higher rates of eucerines also, however, overall they are pulling in only about 2-3 times the individual pan trap and have a great deal more handling time associated with them. It will be interesting to compile everyone's experiences as I know of several people on this list who may have tried them this year....and will let them speak of their experiences directly.

sam

Liz Day <beebuzz@...>
Sent by: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com

12/27/2006 10:03 PM

Please respond to
beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com

To	beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
cc
Subject	[beemonitoring] traps

Speaking of traps, has anyone tried the brilliant blue plastic ones that
cause bees to land in a bottle?
Sujaya Rao, Bill Stephen's student, says that they catch many more
bumblebees than pan traps do.
At least, they did in Oregon. I liked that no water was involved.

---------------------------------------------
Liz Day
Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA
(40 N latitude, USDA zone 5b)
----------------------------------------------

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#62

From: "Thomas of Baltimore" <photosbythom@...>
Date: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:51 pm
Subject: Fwd: Bee Monitoring List Discussion Protocol and Trapping Bees

photosbythom@...

Send Email

Apparently Gubnah Droege believes my questions have already been asked (and answered!) as these are elementary to you all. No matter that neither have my questions been asked nor have they been answered!

Sam's polite request to silence me reflects the outdated and outmoded victorian worldview which stratefies people based on academic degrees and years of service to an academy, no matter that under YOUR watch the situation facing the bees has gotten progressively worse! What is that Einstein quote? "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."

Towing the line on the non-native issue reflects lazy thinking, not mean-spirtedness. But lazy thinking is dangerous. But the biggest danger is when public policy is crafted based on the work of people who sit in ivory towers and do not know what is happening on the ground. That is what I am talking about!

It is downright frightening how little you all know about the dynamics of species introduction and integration and YET, you are approving the introduction of a non-native bee into California! How dare you!

As scientists, you should be actively engaged in discourse. On of your goals should not be maintaining a neat, clean, and silent forum!Afterall, discourse is good for democracy and science. And, both are messy!

-Thom

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
Date: Dec 29, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Bee Monitoring List Discussion Protocol and Trapping Bees
To: Thomas of Baltimore <photosbythom@...>

Thom:

I know you feel strongly about these topics, but I think what I and others feel in regards to your postings is not that they are off topic in the broad brush, but that they clearly fall out of the pattern of what has been expressed on this list. Yours are legitimate questions, and they are ones that anyone would ask, but they are the questions of someone just starting out and I would say that they are more in line with a more general entomological listserve rather than this one. Alternatively, you could also call or write me or some other bee people directly to find out these answers rather than query the entire list. I would suggest using those means rather the entire list at this point.

Regarding the use of traps for bees vs. photography for monitoring. An evaluation of any monitoring technique or program comes down to a weighing of ethics, logistics, costs, bias, and variance and then making a judgement call about how you weigh each of those. You can read more about those topics at our monitoring web site at:

http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov/monmanual/

Ethically, nobody likes the fact that bees are killed during the process of monitoring with pan traps. From all the other perspectives, however, native bees with very few exceptions need to be observed under a microscope in order to identify them. The alternatives such as in the field wing scanning and photography are far to expensive for the samples sizes that would be necessary and have very high observer bias to perform well as a means of large scale monitoring or inventory. I think that all of us working on bees honor the bees that are sacrificed for this sort of work.

Pan traps are one portion of the spectrum of uses for monitoring and definitely have their biases, but because they are cheap, can be used by volunteers, catch most (but not all) of the members of a bee community, and have very little observer bias it remains foremost on my list for monitoring purposes. If you want to study plant/bee interactions, that is a research rather than a monitoring questions and you would use a very different approach.

sam

Sam Droege Sam_Droege@...
w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705
Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

Natural science is constantly drilling into man's consciousness that
fundamentally he is a worm in the universe. The political plague-monger is
constantly harping upon the fact that man is not an animal, but a "zoon
politikon," i.e., a non-animal, an upholder of values, a "moral being." How
much mischief has been perpetuated by the Platonic philosophy of the state!
It is quite clear why man knows the politicos better than the natural
scientists: He does not want to be reminded of the fact that he is
fundamentally a sexual animal. He does not want to be an animal.
Wilhelm Reich

"Thomas of Baltimore" <photosbythom@... >

12/27/2006 08:07 PM

To	"Sam Droege" <sdroege@...>, beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
cc
Subject	Re: Ascher and the BeeMonitoring List

Sam:

Of course, this "conflict of interests" points to more than mere descriptions of message board forums.

As I told John, I am a "beemonitor" who lives in Baltimore City. And, as you well know, it is impossible to discuss bees without discussing flowers. And, in the urban environment context it is impossible to discuss flowers without confronting "non-native" plant species.

Therefore what John characterized as my "too numerous posts" to the forum involve exploring the topic of the relationship between bees and non-native flowers in the urban ecosystem.

And, I went on to argue that [a]ny discussion of the ecology of the city, and the ecology of bees in the city, will necessarily include socio-political discussion. It is unavoidable.

As an amateur urban naturalist I am particularly interested in the whole notion of introduced species which is why I mentioned it on the message board. But let's not let any disagreement on that topic overshadow what we do agree on -- our love of bees.

To me, bee monitoring is inherently socio-political because it is part environmental advocacy and part citizen science. And to truly make any sense of bees in the urban context requires exploration and examination from every angel and of every subject or topic.

If you intend to bring involve the public in beemonitoring activities then I can assure you can expect that there will be as many different perspectives to accomodate as there are goals and objectives to consider.

I posted my bee survey photos to the yahoo group to [a] establish the legitimicy of my interest in the subject, and [b] to illustrate the importance of non-native flowers to my local native bee fauna by showing the specimen in situ with its pollen source.

As a simple analysis I reviewed each specimen in my bee gallery and tallied each occurance of a non-native/native flowers. Of those with bee on flower 23 are introduced species (11 garden specimens and 12 weeds), while only 9 are "native".

As with the Ptilothrix-Rose Of Sharon relationship, these numbers suggests that the my local bee fauna depend in large measure on the the presence of the non-native flora for their continued existence in this area.

Which brings me to some criticisms of your decision to exclusively use pitfall traps in your upcoming bee monitoring project:

1. Pitfall traps cannot tell you anything about which plants the collected bees depend on. (This limits collecting data that would help establish how important introduced plant species are to bees in other areas.)

2. Photodocumentation and pan traps each have limitations and opportunities which if brought together will ensure accurate depictions of local bee fauna.

3. According to James Cane, "samples from guilds typically contain fewer instances of difficult congenerics that need to be distinguished, as well as more cases in which a genus is represented by a single species in a given guild."

4. Further along he adds, "Pan traps ... preferentially catch small-bodied bees, especially sweat bees, and miss many bee taxa altogether (J. H. Cane, unpublished manuscript; T. L. Griswold, unpublished manuscript )."

What do you think?

Warmly, Thomas of Baltimore City

(Source: James Cane research - http://www.ecologyandsociety.org/vol5/iss1/art3/#Theprimacyoftaxonomyandidentification )

.

On Bugguide you ID'd one of my specimens -- Ptilothrix bombiformis:

http://bugguide.net/node/view/88073

I observed the specimen in the park near my house. The area is a former trash dump. Sam Droege mentioned this species is a Hibiscus specialist so it is likely that this species is using the introduced Rose-of-Sharon which I have observed growing nearby.

As I have not recorded any native hibiscus in the area, the continued presence of my local population is dependent in large part on the Rose-Of-Sharon.

On 12/27/06, Sam Droege <sdroege@... > wrote:

Thom:

Ah, I will have to look at what I wrote!

thanks

sam

"Thomas of Baltimore" < photosbythom@... >

12/27/2006 12:31 PM

To	"Sam Droege" < sdroege@...>
cc
Subject	Re: Ascher and the BeeMonitoring List

Sam:

Yes, John and I are cool again. I've learned that it is best to provide data when speaking to scientists so my bee gallery was just the medicine needed.

Not to split hairs here but the "Beemonitoring" yahoo group description suggests that the group is interesred in more than you are suggesting here. Perhaps a revision is called for.

-Thom

On 12/27/06, Sam Droege < sdroege@... > wrote:

Hi Thom:

John is a good guy, but can be so direct as to be impolitic, but it sounds like you guys are working that out. John does have a point, however, which is that in general it is better to take conversations with specific people about specific topics off the listserve and email their personal accounts. The bee monitoring list is largely specific to issues of surveys and is very low volume most of the time. The entomology list entomol-l is a better place for general questions and has a much bigger audience to boot.

sam

Sam Droege Sam_Droege@...
w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705
Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

There was a man who loved bees.
He always was their friend.
He used to sit upon their hive.
But they stung him, in the end.
- Nick Wallingford

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)

#63

From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
Date: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:16 pm
Subject: Re: Fwd: Bee Monitoring List Discussion Protocol and Trapping Bees

sam_droege

Send Email

Thom:

I have removed you from the beemonitoring group. Sorry. Feel free to contact me on my personal account to talk about things further.

sam

Sam Droege Sam_Droege@...
w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705
Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

In the Microscope

Here too are the dreaming landscapes,
lunar, derelict.
Here too are the masses,
tillers of the soil.
And cells, fighters
who lay down their lives for a song.

Here too are cemeteries,
fame and snow.
And I hear the murmuring,
the revolt of immense estates.

-- Miroslav Holub

"Thomas of Baltimore" <photosbythom@...>

12/29/2006 02:51 PM

To	beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com, "Sam Droege" <sdroege@...>
cc
Subject	Fwd: Bee Monitoring List Discussion Protocol and Trapping Bees

OK, even I tire of persistent resistance so I concede to your "suggestion" to stay inside the box as you define it. Big Daddy (Sam) runs his plantation (forum) the way he likes and since he has the power of the veto (as forum administrator), I defer to him.

Apparently Gubnah Droege believes my questions have already been asked (and answered!) as these are elementary to you all. No matter that neither have my questions been asked nor have they been answered!

Sam's polite request to silence me reflects the outdated and outmoded victorian worldview which stratefies people based on academic degrees and years of service to an academy, no matter that under YOUR watch the situation facing the bees has gotten progressively worse! What is that Einstein quote? "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."

Towing the line on the non-native issue reflects lazy thinking, not mean-spirtedness. But lazy thinking is dangerous. But the biggest danger is when public policy is crafted based on the work of people who sit in ivory towers and do not know what is happening on the ground. That is what I am talking about!

It is downright frightening how little you all know about the dynamics of species introduction and integration and YET, you are approving the introduction of a non-native bee into California! How dare you!

As scientists, you should be actively engaged in discourse. On of your goals should not be maintaining a neat, clean, and silent forum!Afterall, discourse is good for democracy and science. And, both are messy!

-Thom

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
Date: Dec 29, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Bee Monitoring List Discussion Protocol and Trapping Bees
To: Thomas of Baltimore <photosbythom@...>

Thom:

I know you feel strongly about these topics, but I think what I and others feel in regards to your postings is not that they are off topic in the broad brush, but that they clearly fall out of the pattern of what has been expressed on this list. Yours are legitimate questions, and they are ones that anyone would ask, but they are the questions of someone just starting out and I would say that they are more in line with a more general entomological listserve rather than this one. Alternatively, you could also call or write me or some other bee people directly to find out these answers rather than query the entire list. I would suggest using those means rather the entire list at this point.

Regarding the use of traps for bees vs. photography for monitoring. An evaluation of any monitoring technique or program comes down to a weighing of ethics, logistics, costs, bias, and variance and then making a judgement call about how you weigh each of those. You can read more about those topics at our monitoring web site at:

http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov/monmanual/

Ethically, nobody likes the fact that bees are killed during the process of monitoring with pan traps. From all the other perspectives, however, native bees with very few exceptions need to be observed under a microscope in order to identify them. The alternatives such as in the field wing scanning and photography are far to expensive for the samples sizes that would be necessary and have very high observer bias to perform well as a means of large scale monitoring or inventory. I think that all of us working on bees honor the bees that are sacrificed for this sort of work.

Pan traps are one portion of the spectrum of uses for monitoring and definitely have their biases, but because they are cheap, can be used by volunteers, catch most (but not all) of the members of a bee community, and have very little observer bias it remains foremost on my list for monitoring purposes. If you want to study plant/bee interactions, that is a research rather than a monitoring questions and you would use a very different approach.

sam

Sam Droege Sam_Droege@...
w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705
Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

Natural science is constantly drilling into man's consciousness that
fundamentally he is a worm in the universe. The political plague-monger is
constantly harping upon the fact that man is not an animal, but a "zoon
politikon," i.e., a non-animal, an upholder of values, a "moral being." How
much mischief has been perpetuated by the Platonic philosophy of the state!
It is quite clear why man knows the politicos better than the natural
scientists: He does not want to be reminded of the fact that he is
fundamentally a sexual animal. He does not want to be an animal.
Wilhelm Reich

"Thomas of Baltimore" <photosbythom@... >

12/27/2006 08:07 PM

To	"Sam Droege" <sdroege@...>, beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
cc
Subject	Re: Ascher and the BeeMonitoring List

"Thomas of Baltimore" < photosbythom@... >

12/27/2006 12:31 PM

To	"Sam Droege" < sdroege@...>
cc
Subject	Re: Ascher and the BeeMonitoring List

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)

#64

From: Liz Day <beebuzz@...>
Date: Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:11 am
Subject: Re: Blue Vane Traps

fervidobombus

Send Email

>We have had mixed results out where we are in Maryland.  I put them out in
>a variety of situations and found that they do get more bumblebees that
>pan traps do on average, but don't seem to get them at as high a rate as
>what Stephen and Rao's groups do in the NW.

Yes, I wonder about this.   I think they were trapping right by fields full
of flowers (eg red clover) that were very attractive to bumblebees, so
perhaps there were proportionally more Bombus in that area to begin with
than in the areas where you were trapping.  ?

>We also found they tend to get higher rates of eucerines also, however,
>overall they are pulling in only about 2-3 times the individual pan trap
>and have a great deal more handling time associated with them.

Unless you include the time to wash each Bombus specimen??   (not sure).

>  It will be interesting to  compile everyone's experiences

Yes!!

cheers,

Liz Day
Indianapolis Indiana USA

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#65

From: <fetridge@...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:51 am
Subject: highway bees

fetridge@...

Send Email

Hello bee folks,

Has anyone out there collected bees from the median of a major (say 6 lanes
plus) highway?  If so, did you find the baseline bee community of the
surrounding area -- or something different?

Thanks a lot,
Evelyn.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#66

From: Athena Rayne Anderson <athenarayne@...>
Date: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:42 pm
Subject: Seeking bee work

athenarayne

Send Email

Greetings bee fans!

I am anticipating starting a doctoral program to study pollination
ecology/ bee diversity this fall and have applied to several programs to
do so. If I am unable to enter a program in the fall I will be looking for
pollinator work until I am able to start school. Does anyone know of any
such positions beginning around the middle of August and lasting 3-12
months? I would be interested in working anywhere full-time for a salary
of $30,000/yr or above, depending on the cost of living. I have attached
my CV to give you an idea about my background and experience. Please let
me know if you have any suggestions, or would like additional information
about me.

Many thanks!
Athena Anderson



________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#67

From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
Date: Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:12 pm
Subject: The Metal Content of Bees

sam_droege

Send Email

All:

The lab next door to mine has a new portable x-ray gizmo that takes accurate readings of metals from samples. These are usually soil samples, but I gave him a batch of surplus dried bees to see what would happen. Here are the results.

Everything is in p.p.m. A "<" symbol indicates that the metal was below detection level.

Antimony <
Tin <
Cadmium <
Silver <
Strontium <
Rubidium <
Lead <
Selenium <
Arsenic <
Mercury <
Zinc 80.29 +/- 12.26
Copper <
Nickel <
Cobalt <
Iron 27.21 +/- 27.21
Manganese <
Chromium 66.55 +/- 26.39
Vanadium <
Titanium <
Scandium 118.61 +/- 61.19
Calcium 2327.3 +/- 313.53
Potassium 19159.42 +/- 859.55

Some ranges for humans

Scandium

Bone/p.p.m: 0.001
Liver/p.p.m: 0.0004-0.0014
Muscle/p.p.m: n/a
Calcium
Bone/p.p.m: 170000
Liver/p.p.m: 100-360
Muscle/p.p.m: 140-700
Potassium
Bone/p.p.m: 2100
Liver/p.p.m: 16000
Muscle/p.p.m: 16000
Chromium
Bone/p.p.m: 0.1-033
Liver/p.p.m: 0.02-3.3
Muscle/p.p.m: 0.024-0.84
Iron
Bone/p.p.m: 3-380
Liver/p.p.m: 250-1400
Muscle/p.p.m: 180
Zinc
Bone/p.p.m: 75-170
Liver/p.p.m: 240

Muscle/p.p.m: 240

Not sure what to make of the results, but if anyone had bees nesting on contaminated site it would be an interesting comparison. I wonder what is going on with the high scandium levels. This is supposed to be very rare metal.

sam

Sam Droege Sam_Droege@...
w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705
Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

The Ungrateful Garden

Midas watched the golden crust
That formed over his streaming sores,
Hugged his agues, loved his lust,
But damned to hell the out-of-doors

Where blazing motes of sun impaled
The serried roses, metal-bright.
"Those famous flowers," Midas ailed,
"Have scorched my retina with light."

This gift, he'd though, would gild his joys,
Silt up the waters of his grief;
His lawns a wilderness of noise,
The heavy clang of leaf on leaf.

Within, the golden cup is good
To heft, to sip the yellow mead.
Outside, in summer's rage, the rude
Gold thorn has made his fingers bleed.

"I strolled my halls in golden shift,
As ruddy as a lion's meat.
Then I rushed out to share my gift,
And golden stubble cut my feet."

Dazzled with wounds, he limped away
To climb into his golden bed.
Roses, roses can betray.
"Nature is evil," Midas said.
- Carolyn Kizer

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#68

From: "nancy lee adamson" <nladamson@...>
Date: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:54 pm
Subject: Re: The Metal Content of Bees

nladamson@...

Send Email

Thanks, Sam.  That is wild.  I enjoy the poems you include.  Here's one about honey.  Nancy


Honey by Robert Morgan (1944- )

Only calmness will reassure
the bees to let you rob their hoard.
Any sweat of fear provokes them.
Approach with confidence, and from
the side, not shading their entrance.
And hush smoke gently from the spout
of the pot of rags, for sparks will
anger them. If you go near bees
every day they will know you.
And never jerk or turn so quick
you excite them.  If weeds are trimmed
around the hive they have access
and feel free. When they taste your smoke
they fill themselves with honey and
are laden and lazy as you
lift the lid to let in daylight.
No bee full of sweetness wants to
sting. Resist greed. With the top off
you touch the fat gold frames, each cell
a hex perfect as a snowflake,
a sealed relic of sun and time
and roots of many acres fixed
in crystal-tight arrays, in rows
and lattices of sweeter latin
from scattered prose of meadow, woods.

From A Book of Luminous Things: An International Anthology of Poetry , edited and with an introduction by Czeslaw Milosz, winner of the Nobel Prize for literature.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#69

From: Jerry_Freilich@...
Date: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:21 pm
Subject: Re: The Metal Content of Bees

jerryfreilich

Send Email

Sam,
These are fascinating results. We ought to get you to screen a sample of
bees from here and there. I am also dying to know if other bees in your
collection have those same approximate values. This sounds like a whole new
idea!

Jerry
__________________________
Jerry Freilich, Ph.D.
Research & Research Learning Network Coordinator
Olympic National Park
600 E. Park Ave.
Port Angeles, WA 98362

Phone:   360-565-3082
Fax:        360-565-3070
Cell:        360-477-3338
Jerry_Freilich@...

"This is the most beautiful place on earth,
   there are many such places..."
                                          Edward Abbey
___________________________



                       Sam Droege
                       <sdroege@...>        To:      
beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                       Sent by:                  cc:       (bcc: Jerry
Freilich/OLYM/NPS)
                       beemonitoring@yaho        Subject:  [beemonitoring] The
Metal Content of Bees
                       ogroups.com


                       03/13/2007 03:12
                       PM AST
                       Please respond to
                       beemonitoring






All:

The lab next door to mine has a new portable x-ray gizmo that takes
accurate readings of metals from samples.  These are usually soil samples,
but I gave him a batch of surplus dried bees to see what would happen.
Here are the results.

Everything is in p.p.m.   A "<" symbol indicates that the metal was below
detection level.


Antimony        <
Tin                <
Cadmium        <
Silver                <
Strontium        <
Rubidium        <
Lead                <
Selenium        <
Arsenic                <
Mercury        <
Zinc                80.29 +/- 12.26
Copper                <
Nickel                <
Cobalt                <
Iron                27.21 +/- 27.21
Manganese        <
Chromium        66.55 +/- 26.39
Vanadium        <
Titanium        <
Scandium        118.61 +/- 61.19
Calcium                2327.3 +/- 313.53
Potassium        19159.42 +/- 859.55


Some ranges for humans


Scandium
       Bone/p.p.m: 0.001
       Liver/p.p.m: 0.0004-0.0014
       Muscle/p.p.m: n/a
       Calcium
       Bone/p.p.m: 170000
       Liver/p.p.m: 100-360
       Muscle/p.p.m: 140-700
       Potassium
       Bone/p.p.m: 2100
       Liver/p.p.m: 16000
       Muscle/p.p.m: 16000
       Chromium
       Bone/p.p.m: 0.1-033
       Liver/p.p.m: 0.02-3.3
       Muscle/p.p.m: 0.024-0.84
       Iron
       Bone/p.p.m: 3-380
       Liver/p.p.m: 250-1400
       Muscle/p.p.m: 180
       Zinc
       Bone/p.p.m: 75-170
       Liver/p.p.m: 240
Muscle/p.p.m: 240

Not sure what to make of the results, but if anyone had bees nesting on
contaminated site it would be an interesting comparison.  I wonder what is
going on with the high scandium levels.  This is supposed to be very rare
metal.

sam

Sam Droege  Sam_Droege@...
w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD  20705
Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

The Ungrateful Garden

Midas watched the golden crust
That formed over his streaming sores,
Hugged his agues, loved his lust,
But damned to hell the out-of-doors

Where blazing motes of sun impaled
The serried roses, metal-bright.
"Those famous flowers," Midas ailed,
"Have scorched my retina with light."

This gift, he'd though, would gild his joys,
Silt up the waters of his grief;
His lawns a wilderness of noise,
The heavy clang of leaf on leaf.

Within, the golden cup is good
To heft, to sip the yellow mead.
Outside, in summer's rage, the rude
Gold thorn has made his fingers bleed.

"I strolled my halls in golden shift,
As ruddy as a lion's meat.
Then I rushed out to share my gift,
And golden stubble cut my feet."

Dazzled with wounds, he limped away
To climb into his golden bed.
Roses, roses can betray.
"Nature is evil," Midas said.
       - Carolyn Kizer

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#70

From: frozenbeedoc@...
Date: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:48 pm
Subject: Re: The Metal Content of Bees

frozenbeedoc@...

Send Email

Hey Sam,

theres a guy named Jerry Bromenshenk, who has been working on grants from DOD for years, using honey bees to determine the extent of fallout from pollution sources and the like. The hairs pick up lots of stuff. And now he's got them learning to sniff for bombs and landmines. Crazy stuff but it seems to work. I'm not sure it he has published much of this, he's not the publication type of guy. But I'll try to find you his web site or e-mail. No reason it wouldn't be the same for native species.

Cheers,
Anita

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#71

From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
Date: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:03 pm
Subject: Re: The Metal Content of Bees

sam_droege

Send Email

Jerry (and anyone else interested):

Yes, it would be interesting to see what the variance around this would be. If you would send me about 40 dried bees (on pins would be fine). We will do a scan. We likely will try some additional samples too. Its likely worth exploration.

sam

Sam Droege Sam_Droege@...
w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705
Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

The mosquito was heard to complain
That the Chemist had poisoned his brain
The cause of his sorrow
Was paradichloro-
Diphenyltrichloroethane
-Unknown

Jerry_Freilich@...
Sent by: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com

03/13/2007 06:21 PM

Please respond to
beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com

To	beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
cc
Subject	Re: [beemonitoring] The Metal Content of Bees

Sam,
These are fascinating results. We ought to get you to screen a sample of
bees from here and there. I am also dying to know if other bees in your
collection have those same approximate values. This sounds like a whole new
idea!

Jerry
__________________________
Jerry Freilich, Ph.D.
Research & Research Learning Network Coordinator
Olympic National Park
600 E. Park Ave.
Port Angeles, WA 98362

Phone: 360-565-3082
Fax: 360-565-3070
Cell: 360-477-3338
Jerry_Freilich@...

"This is the most beautiful place on earth,
there are many such places..."
Edward Abbey
___________________________

Sam Droege
<sdroege@...> To: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
Sent by: cc: (bcc: Jerry Freilich/OLYM/NPS)
beemonitoring@yaho Subject: [beemonitoring] The Metal Content of Bees
ogroups.com

03/13/2007 03:12
PM AST
Please respond to
beemonitoring

All:

The lab next door to mine has a new portable x-ray gizmo that takes
accurate readings of metals from samples. These are usually soil samples,
but I gave him a batch of surplus dried bees to see what would happen.
Here are the results.

Everything is in p.p.m. A "<" symbol indicates that the metal was below
detection level.

Antimony <
Tin <
Cadmium <
Silver <
Strontium <
Rubidium <
Lead <
Selenium <
Arsenic <
Mercury <
Zinc 80.29 +/- 12.26
Copper <
Nickel <
Cobalt <
Iron 27.21 +/- 27.21
Manganese <
Chromium 66.55 +/- 26.39
Vanadium <
Titanium <
Scandium 118.61 +/- 61.19
Calcium 2327.3 +/- 313.53
Potassium 19159.42 +/- 859.55

Some ranges for humans

Scandium
Bone/p.p.m: 0.001
Liver/p.p.m: 0.0004-0.0014
Muscle/p.p.m: n/a
Calcium
Bone/p.p.m: 170000
Liver/p.p.m: 100-360
Muscle/p.p.m: 140-700
Potassium
Bone/p.p.m: 2100
Liver/p.p.m: 16000
Muscle/p.p.m: 16000
Chromium
Bone/p.p.m: 0.1-033
Liver/p.p.m: 0.02-3.3
Muscle/p.p.m: 0.024-0.84
Iron
Bone/p.p.m: 3-380
Liver/p.p.m: 250-1400
Muscle/p.p.m: 180
Zinc
Bone/p.p.m: 75-170
Liver/p.p.m: 240
Muscle/p.p.m: 240

Not sure what to make of the results, but if anyone had bees nesting on
contaminated site it would be an interesting comparison. I wonder what is
going on with the high scandium levels. This is supposed to be very rare
metal.

sam

Sam Droege Sam_Droege@...
w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705
Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

The Ungrateful Garden

Midas watched the golden crust
That formed over his streaming sores,
Hugged his agues, loved his lust,
But damned to hell the out-of-doors

Where blazing motes of sun impaled
The serried roses, metal-bright.
"Those famous flowers," Midas ailed,
"Have scorched my retina with light."

This gift, he'd though, would gild his joys,
Silt up the waters of his grief;
His lawns a wilderness of noise,
The heavy clang of leaf on leaf.

Within, the golden cup is good
To heft, to sip the yellow mead.
Outside, in summer's rage, the rude
Gold thorn has made his fingers bleed.

"I strolled my halls in golden shift,
As ruddy as a lion's meat.
Then I rushed out to share my gift,
And golden stubble cut my feet."

Dazzled with wounds, he limped away
To climb into his golden bed.
Roses, roses can betray.
"Nature is evil," Midas said.
- Carolyn Kizer

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#72

From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
Date: Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:14 pm
Subject: April Workshop on Native Bee Identification at Patuxent

sam_droege

Send Email

All:

It looks like we might have room for one or two additional participants at the Native Bee Identification Workshop we will be holding from April 16th to the 20th. We will be emphasizing eastern bee identification at the species level. In addition to myself, Rob Jean will be one of the instructors.

Earlier today I sent personal invitations to everyone who mentioned they wanted to take the workshop. If you have not heard back from me then please contact me as soon as possible!

The details are described in the attached file.

Thanks.

sam

Sam Droege Sam_Droege@...
w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705
Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

Elm Buds

Elm buds are out.
Yesterday morning, last night,
they crept out.
They are the mice of early
spring air.

To the north is the gray sky.
Winter hung it gray for the gray
elm to stand dark against.
Now the branches all end with the
yellow and gold mice of early
spring air.
They are moving mice creeping out
with leaf and leaf.

-Carl Sandburg

Reply | Messages in this Topic (6)

#73

From: "Gaye Williams" <williagl@...>
Date: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:16 pm
Subject: Re: April Workshop on Native Bee Identification at Patuxent

williagl@...

Send Email

sam, i'd like to do part of the workshop, am just starting chemo and phys.
therapy for cancer and don't know now what sched. will be then. can you pencil
me in as a floater? have my own scope, etc. let me know.

Gaye Williams
Md. Dept. Agr.-Pl. Prot. Sect.
50 Truman Pkwy
Annapolis,Md 21401
p-410 841 5920
f-               5835

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#74

From: BetsyKlinger@...
Date: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:27 pm
Subject: Re: April Workshop on Native Bee Identification at Patuxent

BetsyKlinger@...

Send Email

Sam,

I am interested in taking part in the workshop, although I am a neophyte and was only able to come to one open lab so far. I expect to have a LOT more time beginning in May.

Please let me know if you think you'll have room for me.

Thanks,

Betsy

All:

It looks like we might have room for one or two additional participants at the Native Bee Identification Workshop we will be holding from April 16th to the 20th. We will be emphasizing eastern bee identification at the species level. In addition to myself, Rob Jean will be one of the instructors.

Earlier today I sent personal invitations to everyone who mentioned they wanted to take the workshop. If you have not heard back from me then please contact me as soon as possible!

The details are described in the attached file.

Thanks.

sam

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

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#75

From: Athena Anderson <athenarayne@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 2:25 am
Subject: Funding for bee work?

athenarayne

Send Email

Greetings all!

I am writing to ask if anyone knows of sources offering funding for bee work anywhere in the world. I am really hoping to do bee ID and/or sorting this fall/spring, while I and John Pickering look for funding for me to start a doctoral program at UGA-Athens. Please let me know if anyone has connections, or knows of an agency that might be helpful.

Many thanks,

Athena Anderson

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#76

From: Liz Day <lizday44@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 4:37 am
Subject: Re: Funding for bee work?

fervidobombus

Send Email

>Greetings all!
>I am writing to ask if anyone knows of sources offering funding for bee
>work anywhere in the world.


prairiebioticresearch@...

This group does small grants for research on prairies, and they often fund
bee work.  However, the deadline for this season has probably passed.

Liz D.
Indianapolis

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#77

From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 7:02 pm
Subject: Acmaeodera (Buprestidae) in bee bowls and a new guide to the Eastern species

sam_droege

Send Email

All:

In the East we can get quite a slug of Acmaeodera buprestid beetles in our bowls in the spring. With the help of Chuck Bellamy and Norm Woodley I have put together a guide to the 6 species that occur east of the Mississippi.

You can check out the guide at:

http://pick4.pick.uga.edu/mp/20q?guide=Acmaeodera

No pictures yet, but they are coming at some point.

Frank Parker has told me that this group also shows up regularly in the West where they are very species rich. I would be interested in hearing from others on this list as to their impressions and experiences with this group. Do you see many of them, are they common, do you think they would be worth tracking in a monitoring program along with bees, etc.?

Thanks.

sam

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#78

From: Karen Wetherill <karen@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 10:06 pm
Subject: Re: Acmaeodera (Buprestidae) in bee bowls and a new guide to the Eastern species

karen@...

Send Email

I get a few, but not high numbers.  I pin most of them up when I find
them.  If anyone is interested in them, they can have them.  I would
appreciate duplicates returned for our voucher collection if they are
identified to species.  I collect on the Sevilleta National Wildlife
Refuge, south of Albuquerque and work out of the Museum of Southwestern
Biology at the University of New Mexico.  Cheers, Karen

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)

#79

From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
Date: Tue May 1, 2007 3:01 pm
Subject: Summary of Bees of Eastern North America

sam_droege

Send Email

All:

As part of a course on Bee Identification that Rob Jean and I taught a few weeks ago, I developed a summary of the eastern genera of bees that may be useful to beginning and intermediate bee workers. That file is attached below. Feel free to modify and use however you wish, if you find it useful. I would also be interested in any suggestions for change, corrections, or modifications.

Thank you.

sam

Sam Droege Sam_Droege@...
w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705
Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

Beauty is truth, truth beauty - that is all
Ye know on earth and all ye need to know

" Ode on a Grecian Urn"
John Keats.

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#80

From: "Dan Kjar" <dsk@...>
Date: Tue May 1, 2007 3:15 pm
Subject: Re: Summary of Bees of Eastern North America

kjard_us

Send Email

Fantastic Sam,  I will try it on my field biology students in the
coming weeks.   We are bee bowling around Ithaca this month.

Dan


--- In beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com, Sam Droege <sdroege@...> wrote:
>
> All:
>
> As part of a course on Bee Identification that Rob Jean and I taught
a few
> weeks ago, I developed a summary of the eastern genera of bees that
may be
> useful to beginning and intermediate bee workers.  That file is
attached
> below.  Feel free to modify and use however you wish, if you find it
> useful.  I would also be interested in any suggestions for change,
> corrections, or modifications.
>
> Thank you.
>
> sam
>
>
>
>
> Sam Droege  Sam_Droege@...
> w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
> USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
> BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD  20705
> Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov
>
> Beauty is truth, truth beauty - that is all
> Ye know on earth and all ye need to know
>
>          " Ode on a Grecian Urn"
>                        John Keats.
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)

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