... The particles always have definite positions. (I'm sure you understand that, but using the word "state" here can sometimes be misleading because people...
1212
Travis Norsen
tnorsen
Nov 30, 2006 1:37 pm
... I have some thoughts on this, though most of them are preliminary. But (like Jonathan, I sense) I think this is a really important question for dBB which...
1213
Travis Norsen
tnorsen
Nov 30, 2006 2:01 pm
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Phil Warnell wrote: [about the paper cited by Joe] ... I don't think that's a good definition of "bad science". That somebody else comes...
1214
Phil Warnell
philwarnell
Dec 1, 2006 2:24 pm
Travis, ... moment ... Yes I know but not to use the same term seemed to make it easier to make a comparative description. Actually I don't see state on Bell's...
1215
Phil Warnell
philwarnell
Dec 3, 2006 12:11 pm
Travis, ... But ... anywhere ... pointed ... But ... why ... mentioned ... particles ... In the Valentini/Bacciagaluppi book (page 223 to 224) it seems that ...
1216
Jonathan Lang
dataweaver42
Dec 3, 2006 4:21 pm
... I'm not opposed to it, either. The main stumbling block that I see is the way that the Equations are set up when dealing with multiple particles:...
1217
Travis Norsen
tnorsen
Dec 3, 2006 9:54 pm
... I don't see what that has to do with my proposals. Is momentum a conserved quantity in "regular" dBB to begin with? Travis...
1218
Phil Warnell
philwarnell
Dec 4, 2006 12:25 am
Travis, ... The answer as found in chapter 9 is yes. However from what I read this is only because the guiding fields are expressed in terms of configuration...
1219
Travis Norsen
tnorsen
Dec 4, 2006 1:13 am
... My plan (which, btw, is too strong a word -- it's a set of rough initial preliminary half-baked speculations) would retain exactly the predictions of...
1220
Phil Warnell
philwarnell
Dec 4, 2006 12:16 pm
Travis, ... is a ... will ... may ... Like I said, it may be your approach avoids the whole issue. It wouldn't entail rereading the whole book just chapter 9...
1221
Phil Warnell
philwarnell
Dec 4, 2006 1:08 pm
Jonathan, ... configuration ... the ... That last sentence has me somewhat confused, please elaborate. As for the particle positions all being considered as...
1222
Travis Norsen
tnorsen
Dec 4, 2006 1:32 pm
... There is no way to remove the non-locality. That's what Bell's Theorem proves. So if you think the point of positing local beables (in place of the wf on...
1223
Jonathan Lang
dataweaver42
Dec 4, 2006 6:36 pm
... See, I'm not particularly interested in proving that there's room for reasonable doubt; I think you've already done that. I'm much more interested in...
1224
Jonathan Lang
dataweaver42
Dec 4, 2006 6:37 pm
... Phrasing it terms of configuration space (because I don't yet have a workable alternative), note that each point in the wave function corresponds to a...
1225
Phil Warnell
philwarnell
Dec 5, 2006 12:23 pm
Travis, ... Theorem ... I never suspected that your approach was a attempt to make dBB local. That as you say would be obvious folly. I was just pointing out...
1226
Phil Warnell
philwarnell
Dec 5, 2006 2:05 pm
To all, Correction on a point. ... What I meant to say was: What I'm saying is that Newton's theory did have nonlocal elements and so a sense it is in itself...
1227
Travis Norsen
tnorsen
Dec 5, 2006 3:57 pm
... I don't understand the last sentence. But there's nothing to argue about here. Newtonian mechanics has only *local* beables, and yet the *laws* governing...
1228
Jonathan Lang
dataweaver42
Dec 6, 2006 12:53 am
... In effect, \psi_1(x) is x1's "personal guidewave", and \psi_2(x) is x2's "personal guidewave". The nice feature about this is that these personal...
1229
Phil Warnell
philwarnell
Dec 6, 2006 2:13 pm
Travis, ... Einstein ... wrong ... As you noticed I fudged it there and also when I attempted to correct. That is you call Newton's theory of "local beables"...
1230
Jonathan Lang
dataweaver42
Dec 6, 2006 3:28 pm
... I'm not sure where "uncertainty" came into the picture. In this view of things, every particle has a guidewave, which is effectively a field defined over...
1231
Travis Norsen
tnorsen
Dec 6, 2006 4:30 pm
On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Jonathan Lang wrote: [snip part] Thanks for helping clarify the proposal here. You understand it perfectly! ... Yes, it's a good question....
1232
Travis Norsen
tnorsen
Dec 6, 2006 4:36 pm
... It doesn't have anything to do with admitting uncertainty. The "potential" view of the (multi-particle) wave function is just exactly parallel to what...
1233
Jonathan Lang
dataweaver42
Dec 7, 2006 12:34 am
... I wish... I still feel like I'm stumbling around in the dark here. ... Fair enough. I assume that even at this state, you'd still be getting some...
1234
Phil Warnell
philwarnell
Dec 7, 2006 2:14 pm
Travis, ... final ... The way you would look at this would be partially governed by how you considered the particle action in relation to the wave. In the...
1235
Jonathan Lang
dataweaver42
Dec 7, 2006 4:03 pm
... Travis? ... Interesting. My understanding is that deBroglie never actually presented any formalism for his "pilot wave" concept. That was done by Bohm;...
1236
Travis Norsen
tnorsen
Dec 7, 2006 5:33 pm
... I think there is some wire-crossing happening here. According to dBB, the wave function has to be taken as *physically real*. It is every bit as...
1237
Jonathan Lang
dataweaver42
Dec 8, 2006 3:26 am
Pseudo-stream of consciousness response here, with my conclusions summarized and illustrated at the end: (Terminology: by "wf", I mean the full wave function...
1238
Travis Norsen
tnorsen
Dec 8, 2006 1:56 pm
... It depends on what you mean by "equivalent." I'm taking it to mean "equivalent in so far as the motion of particles is concerned" (which of course in turn...
1239
Jonathan Lang
dataweaver42
Dec 8, 2006 4:24 pm
... My understanding is that an electromagnetic wave _can_ be described entirely by the electrical and magnetic fields; there are no "entangled E-and-M"...
1240
Phil Warnell
philwarnell
Dec 9, 2006 2:55 am
Travis, ... If both the particles and the waves were not both considered real I wouldn't give dBB the time of day. To be honest after Gibbon's came out with...
