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Telescopic Limiting Magnitude calculator   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #19472 of 19600 |
Re: Telescopic Limiting Magnitude calculator

Nils,

I think that an experienced observer will always see more through a scope than
an inexperienced observer--in all conditions.

So experience is important.

But I think sky darkness trumps experience, so that factor has to have more
weight.

But aperture trumps experience. A novice, looking through 60", will see more
than an experienced observer in an 8" scope.
[I mean actually see, not observe. I find that rank amateurs can actually SEE
more than they OBSERVE if you ask them pointed questions about what they're
looking at. The experienced observer more or less automatically observes what he
sees.]

So, ranked:
Aperture
Sky darkness
Experience

I consider pupil diameter, star color, distance from zenith, telescope type,
cleanliness and coating type, and seeing conditions all as lesser factors.

Upon reflection, aperture and sky darkness are close to equal in importance. My
home is about mag.17mpsas, while my observing site is magnitude 21.5mpsas. That
difference radically overcomes the difference between my 5" and 12.5" scopes.
At the dark site, the 5" sees more than the 12.5" at my home.
If the difference in sky darkness is larger than the difference in the
apertures, sky darkness is the more important factor.
But, since amateurs are unlikely to be able to experience 40:1 aperture
differences at their observing sites, sky darkness is really the most critical
factor for determinining what can be seen.

At a given site, though, aperture is the most important factor of all.





Sun Jul 5, 2009 4:29 pm

pensack1
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Message #19472 of 19600 |
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I've uploaded a new Telescope Limiting Magnitude calculator page at the following address: http://www.cruxis.com/scope/limitingmagnitude.htm This calculator is...
Robert Houdart
rhoudart
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Jun 30, 2009
1:49 pm

Robert, Thanks for that. I simply modified the previously published calculators by going to the HTML behind the page (easy with any browser) and editing the...
pensack1
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Jul 1, 2009
1:28 am

Ok, I'll bite.... For what it's worth.   I've not had luck with these calculators matching my observations.  I tend to see about 2 magnitudes fainter stars...
Event Horizon
eventhorizon...
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Jul 1, 2009
4:09 pm

Well, the copied formatting from the mag cac site did not transfer like it looked when I pasted it in my email, but, the two conditions are:   20" Telescope,...
Event Horizon
eventhorizon...
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Jul 1, 2009
4:24 pm

Steven, You must be very experienced observer with excellent eyesight at a pristine location. Very few people reach magnitude 20 with a 20" scope. Your numbers...
Robert Houdart
rhoudart
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Jul 1, 2009
5:23 pm

Hi Robert, Steven's experience with his 20 matches mine with my 20. When going after some of the very dim targets that I do, I have seen that I can detect...
bob_hill12000
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Jul 2, 2009
2:07 pm

Steven You will find Schaefer's original article at: ...
Nils Olof Carlin
nilsolofcarlin
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Jul 1, 2009
6:19 pm

Hi Robert, I have been at this observing thing for a while.  With the things I've seen I'd say, given my vision, scopes, nights of exceptional seeing, that I...
Event Horizon
eventhorizon...
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Jul 1, 2009
6:20 pm

Thanks, if there are adverse effects by altering the exit pupil for having used high power, though the result comes closer to my observations and puts the...
Event Horizon
eventhorizon...
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Jul 1, 2009
6:40 pm

By modifying the html for Bogen's Schaefer-derived to correspond to the correct reflectivity of my telescope's mirrors, and also modifying the pupil diameter...
pensack1
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Jul 1, 2009
9:54 pm

Well, I don't know if I'm NELM of 9.0.  It's high for sure as I can still use an eyepiece combo that produces 8.7mm exit pupil and my iris does not...
eventhorizon2112@...
eventhorizon...
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Jul 1, 2009
10:22 pm

Don, While I'm well familiar with Schaefer's 1990 paper, the 1998 article in S&T seems to be missing from my collection, and I don't know the details of ...
Nils Olof Carlin
nilsolofcarlin
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Jul 2, 2009
8:22 am

Nils, Replies below. Don ... Wasn't that a 1989 article? ... Look at the html code behind this page: http://www.go.ednet.ns.ca/~larry/astro/maglimit.html In IE...
pensack1
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Jul 4, 2009
1:54 am

Don, ... In the new calculator you can enter your true pupil diameter instead of relying on the automatically calculated age-dependent value. Other changes...
Robert Houdart
rhoudart
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Jul 4, 2009
3:52 am

Don, While I'm well familiar with Schaefer's 1990 paper, the 1998 article in S&T seems to be missing from my collection, and I don't know the details of ...
Nils Olof Carlin
nilsolofcarlin
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Jul 2, 2009
8:30 am

Sorry about the double messages - the difference was that in the first version, I incorrectly stated that the experience factor was not included in Robert...
Nils Olof Carlin
nilsolofcarlin
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Jul 2, 2009
8:40 am

It's interesting that the visual recovery of Halley was brought up.  I too remember reading about that observation and just a few weeks ago I looked up the...
Event Horizon
eventhorizon...
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Jul 2, 2009
11:20 pm

looking again art Schaerfer's article (it must have been over 10 years since last time I perused it), I find these comments, that might be very relevant ...
Nils Olof Carlin
nilsolofcarlin
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Jul 3, 2009
7:40 am

Nils Olof, ... In the calculator the NELM deals with that, any value larger than 7.0 is interpreted by the Javascript as a perfect sky plus a sensitivity...
Robert Houdart
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Jul 3, 2009
10:15 am

Robert, There is dark adaptation and there is dark adaptation. To wit: in the old days, serious observers doing threshold observations would often cover their...
pensack1
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Jul 4, 2009
2:04 am

... Seems many observers are not aware of this, but you will notice that after looking at a dark branch against the dark sky, moving your gaze shows there is a...
Nils Olof Carlin
nilsolofcarlin
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Jul 4, 2009
9:00 am

Don, ... You're right - I copied the wrong year from somewhere I can't recall now. ... While this is possible, I just don't think it's fair to the user to...
Nils Olof Carlin
nilsolofcarlin
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Jul 4, 2009
9:05 am

Nils, Regarding the html code, here are some changes to make to adjust for your experience: 1) if (form1.Teletype[0].checked) { var DS=0.21*D; var...
pensack1
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Jul 4, 2009
4:06 pm

While enjoying the discussion, I had to comment... Glad to see reference to this classic cartoon by Sidney Harris. I first saw it a few decades ago in American...
jpcannavo
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Jul 7, 2009
11:29 am

Don, thanks a lot for this - it helps to have something substantial to discuss. ... It would be nice to choose from standard valuer or calulate the recipe for ...
Nils Olof Carlin
nilsolofcarlin
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Jul 4, 2009
8:07 pm

Nils, I think that an experienced observer will always see more through a scope than an inexperienced observer--in all conditions. So experience is important. ...
pensack1
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Jul 5, 2009
4:30 pm
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