Here is the current version of the "Finger variability" paper in MSWord.

To All:

FYI, Dr. John Daugman (of IriScan) has had several papers and book chapters
accepted for publication (as well as a US Patent) after careful judgement by the
peer review process. I'm sure that IriScan can provide you the citations. I
believe that their web site (at iriscan.com)  has some of the references.
Although these references may appear on a commercial web site, there is no doubt
that the papers have been carefully reviewed and have substantial scientific and
mathematical basis. You can also check John Daugman's web site at Cambridge
University (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/jgd1000/)

Mike Negin (of Sensar)

PeterHAI@... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/15/99 9:50:34 PM, JLWayman@... writes:
>
> << How about this for a discussion topic at the next BC?  IriScan has said a
> couple of times lately that their claims of extremely low error rates "have
> been subject to critical examination and acceptance by the international
> scientific community."  We could ask the panelists if they are among this
> group.
>
> JLW  >>
>
> Jim - all -- a good idea.
>
> BTW - is this a place to post good humor (AKA Jokes) from time to time?
>
> Peter Higgins
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Click here for 4 FREE TRIAL ISSUES of Sports Illustrated!  If you're
> satisfied, your subscription will continue at the guaranteed lowest rate
> of $.75 an issue for 52 issues! http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/678
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

A duck walks into a drugstore.
"Got any chapstick?" asks the duck.
"Why, sure," says the salesguy, looking
askance.  "Cash or charge?"
"Put it on my bill."

--- PeterHAI@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/15/99 9:50:34 PM,
> JLWayman@... writes:
>
> << How about this for a discussion topic at the next
> BC?  IriScan has said a
> couple of times lately that their claims of
> extremely low error rates "have
> been subject to critical examination and acceptance
> by the international
> scientific community."  We could ask the panelists
> if they are among this
> group.
>
> JLW  >>
>
> Jim - all -- a good idea.
>
> BTW - is this a place to post good humor (AKA Jokes)
> from time to time?
>
> Peter Higgins
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Click here for 4 FREE TRIAL ISSUES of Sports
> Illustrated!  If you're
> satisfied, your subscription will continue at the
> guaranteed lowest rate
> of $.75 an issue for 52 issues!
> http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/678
>
>
> eGroups.com home:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group
> communications
>
>
>
>
>

===
P.C. Shinn http://home.earthlink.net/~philipshinn
voicemail 877 324 6289 (877 echobuzz) box 949 405 100
mobile +1 310 266 2382 fax +1 209 755 3573
email philshinn@... or ps@...
or for large attachments philipshinn@...

In a message dated 8/15/99 9:50:34 PM, JLWayman@... writes:

<< How about this for a discussion topic at the next BC?  IriScan has said a
couple of times lately that their claims of extremely low error rates "have
been subject to critical examination and acceptance by the international
scientific community."  We could ask the panelists if they are among this
group.

JLW  >>

Jim - all -- a good idea.

BTW - is this a place to post good humor (AKA Jokes) from time to time?

Peter Higgins

In this issue, BHSUG details what you can expect at the forthcoming Biometric
Consortium Fall meeting, your editor brings you the details on Jamaica’s
proposed biometrics based National ID System, The Biometric-System Lab
(University of Bologna), the Pattern Recognition and Image Processing
Laboratory of Michigan State University and the U.S. National Biometric Test
Center (San Jose State University) join forces to organize a Fingerprint
Verification Competition in Barcelona Spain, Indiana University and KPMG LLP
found that consumers have very strong feelings about biometrics, Phil Shinn
introduces a new biometrics eGroup, and finally Dariusz Kosz dicusses new
numerical methods for FP recognition . As usual, BHSUG has the latest
"Biometric Events" Calendar and "Biometric Watch", containing news briefs
from all over the biometric world.

It is all available free at http://www.dss.state.ct.us/digital.htm

Dave Mintie, Editor

How about this for a discussion topic at the next BC?  IriScan has said a
couple of times lately that their claims of extremely low error rates "have
been subject to critical examination and acceptance by the internatonal
scientific community."  We could ask the panelists if they are among this
group.

JLW

Jim,

Can you post the article here?  Put a link in links or drop it in the
vault...

cheers,

- phil

ps check out http://www.pacificnet.net/~uno/xmosaic/recreation.html#sur
fing

philshin-@... wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics/?start=22
> Philster -
>
> Thanks for the tip about the 5.5" foil fin.  My surf shop doesn't
carry them.
>  Can I get one on the Internet?  The sunset at Carmel tonight was
incredible.
> God had His full pallet out. Surf about 1'-2', short rides but fast.
You
> woulda loved it.
>
> Why do I sense that the verification/ID question is a setup? But hey,
you
> since you asked, let's deal with it now and not wait for the panel.
>
> Biometric systems compare M input samples to N stored templates.  The
> difference between verification and identification is that, in the
former,  N
> is small and all from a single individual, and, in the latter, N is
large and
> from many individuals. Verification and identification are "duals",
so if you
> flip the definitions of "false accept" and "false reject" the same
equations
> hold for both processes.   So the issue becomes developing general
equations
> to handle systems with any M and N.  These equations express the
> relationships you are seeking (and will also handle "PIN-less"
verification
> and other oddities).
>
> The NBTC gets involved in lots of general studies, but my personal
research
> passion over the last 3 years has centered on exactly this topic. The
obvious
> stuff was pretty well covered in "Error Rate Equations for the
General
> Biometric System", IEEE Robotics and Automation Magazine, March 1999
> (reprints available upon request).  Unfortunately, those equations
are only
> approximate and we have no handle on the extent to which they are
inaccurate.
>  The two big mathematical problems in performance estimation from
test data
> are:  1) correlation of errors; and 2) goats and lambs.  The
equations
> developed in the above mentioned article assume neither 1) nor 2)
exist.
> Correlations mean that error rates don't simply multiply (as in odds
of two
> errors in a row = odds of one error ^2).  The existence of
goats/sheep or
> lambs/sheep means that 3 errors in one hundred trials does not equate
to 100
> people each with a 3% error rate.  You can get 3 errors in 100 trials
with 97
> people with 0% and 6 people with 50% error rates.  Or maybe 50 people
at 0%
> and 50 at 6% or maybe ... Each case leads to a different large-scale
> performance estimate.
>
> A 11/98 paper by George Doddington, " Sheep, Goats, Lambs and Wolves:
An
> Analysis of Individual Differences in Speaker Recognition
Performance",
> available at www.itl.nist.gov/div894/894.01/icslp_98/index.htm  shows
that
> such animals do indeed exist in among speakers.
>
> I have been circulating a draft copy of a new paper, "Multi-Finger
> Penetration Rate And ROC Variability For Automatic Fingerprint
Identification
> Systems" (preprints available upon request), which discusses both
correlation
> and goat/lamb statistics from experimental data.   This paper
indicates that,
> at least for fingerprinting, Doddington's zoo may be even larger than
> imagined.  The data indicates that there are sheep, but that after
that there
> are simply different degrees of lamb-ness.  Also, there are sheep and
> different degrees of wolf-ness.  I did not have the data to check
sheep vs.
> goats, but highly suspect that there are varying levels of goat-ness
as well.
> (I plan to do the goats study using hand-based data for the AutoID99
meeting
> this fall).   This means that there are not simply two groups, but
rather
> error rates come from a distribution across individuals: my error
rate being
> 6%, yours being 1%, and a bunch of other people between 0% and 50% to
give
> that mean rate of 3%.  This not only ruins the large-scale estimates
of the
> "Error Rate" paper, it eliminates our ability to assess confidence
intervals
> or answer the question "How big should the test be?".
>
> Over the last couple of years, we've gotten lots of help from U of
> Washington, Stanford, UCBerkeley, U of MN at Diluth, and NY City
University
> on understanding binomial distributions with trials of varying p
(error
> rate).  If the p's are from a small number of distinct populations
(sheep,
> mommy goats, daddy goats and baby goats, for instance), I believe
that the
> large-scale equations can be rewritten analytically, although I
haven't done
> that yet. If the p's are from a continuous distribution, our only
hope might
> be simulation models, but again, I don't know that for sure.  I'm
only
> guessing here.
>
> JLW

Just got my Biometrics Digest and there is a big article on page 2 on West
Virginia. Byrd is going to get the state declared theNational center for
Identification Technology. I told you Byrd doesn't think small.

Article says San Jose State is involved -- so - Jim, maybe you are already in
W VA and just didn't get the word.

See Randy Newman's new CD - says he thinks he's dead but no one is willing to
tell him. Could be you've been redefined to W VA but no one was willing to
mention it.

Peter

The current (proposed) FY2000 Defense Appropriations Act contains $10M for US
Army research into biometrics.  Colombi gave them a presentation, but they
sure as heck aren't talking to me.  I'm sure that they have already earmarked
the money for somebody, but it doesn't seem to be WVA University either.

JLW

Philster -

Thanks for the tip about the 5.5" foil fin.  My surf shop doesn't carry them.
  Can I get one on the Internet?  The sunset at Carmel tonight was incredible.
God had His full pallet out. Surf about 1'-2', short rides but fast. You
woulda loved it.

Why do I sense that the verification/ID question is a setup? But hey, you
since you asked, let's deal with it now and not wait for the panel.

Biometric systems compare M input samples to N stored templates.  The
difference between verification and identification is that, in the former,  N
is small and all from a single individual, and, in the latter, N is large and
from many individuals. Verification and identification are "duals", so if you
flip the definitions of "false accept" and "false reject" the same equations
hold for both processes.   So the issue becomes developing general equations
to handle systems with any M and N.  These equations express the
relationships you are seeking (and will also handle "PIN-less" verification
and other oddities).

The NBTC gets involved in lots of general studies, but my personal research
passion over the last 3 years has centered on exactly this topic. The obvious
stuff was pretty well covered in "Error Rate Equations for the General
Biometric System", IEEE Robotics and Automation Magazine, March 1999
(reprints available upon request).  Unfortunately, those equations are only
approximate and we have no handle on the extent to which they are inaccurate.
  The two big mathematical problems in performance estimation from test data
are:  1) correlation of errors; and 2) goats and lambs.  The equations
developed in the above mentioned article assume neither 1) nor 2) exist.
Correlations mean that error rates don't simply multiply (as in odds of two
errors in a row = odds of one error ^2).  The existence of goats/sheep or
lambs/sheep means that 3 errors in one hundred trials does not equate to 100
people each with a 3% error rate.  You can get 3 errors in 100 trials with 97
people with 0% and 6 people with 50% error rates.  Or maybe 50 people at 0%
and 50 at 6% or maybe ... Each case leads to a different large-scale
performance estimate.

A 11/98 paper by George Doddington, " Sheep, Goats, Lambs and Wolves: An
Analysis of Individual Differences in Speaker Recognition Performance",
available at www.itl.nist.gov/div894/894.01/icslp_98/index.htm  shows that
such animals do indeed exist in among speakers.

I have been circulating a draft copy of a new paper, "Multi-Finger
Penetration Rate And ROC Variability For Automatic Fingerprint Identification
Systems" (preprints available upon request), which discusses both correlation
and goat/lamb statistics from experimental data.   This paper indicates that,
at least for fingerprinting, Doddington's zoo may be even larger than
imagined.  The data indicates that there are sheep, but that after that there
are simply different degrees of lamb-ness.  Also, there are sheep and
different degrees of wolf-ness.  I did not have the data to check sheep vs.
goats, but highly suspect that there are varying levels of goat-ness as well.
(I plan to do the goats study using hand-based data for the AutoID99 meeting
this fall).   This means that there are not simply two groups, but rather
error rates come from a distribution across individuals: my error rate being
6%, yours being 1%, and a bunch of other people between 0% and 50% to give
that mean rate of 3%.  This not only ruins the large-scale estimates of the
"Error Rate" paper, it eliminates our ability to assess confidence intervals
or answer the question "How big should the test be?".

Over the last couple of years, we've gotten lots of help from U of
Washington, Stanford, UCBerkeley, U of MN at Diluth, and NY City University
on understanding binomial distributions with trials of varying p (error
rate).  If the p's are from a small number of distinct populations (sheep,
mommy goats, daddy goats and baby goats, for instance), I believe that the
large-scale equations can be rewritten analytically, although I haven't done
that yet. If the p's are from a continuous distribution, our only hope might
be simulation models, but again, I don't know that for sure.  I'm only
guessing here.

JLW

Just back from West Virginia where they had the ribbon cutting for the FBI's
IAFIS fingerprint system.

Sen. Byrd gave the keynote talk and introduced an Undersecretary of the Army
and a General. Byrd said they were there because he was funding the
technology of the millennium -- biometrics and it would be done in West, VA.
He mentioned FPs, wrist veins, irises, faces and one or two others. Said they
would be used to protect Army information and weapons. They will work with
the FBI and others in the biometric state - West Virginia. Sen. Byrd has deep
pockets -- ours -- and tends to follow up with plans to invest.

So - be prepared to have opportunities to go to W. Va. What does this mean
for NSA and Wayman? Hopefully there is money to go around. Not much surfing
in Clarksburg other than the net.

BR,
Peter Higgins
PeterHAI@...

Jeff Dunn solicited questions for the panels in the upcoming BC
meetings.
Here's one:

- What is the mathematical relationship between verification and
identification performance?

I am in favor of anything that helps the biometric community. If you all want to hear my sob stories about running a listserv with 500 subscribers or trying to keep a web site up to date, let me know...

Many folks have mentioned they would like to have a forum for more technical discussions-- perhaps this is one mechanism for that.

One suggestion I have is that if anyone finds some really good biometric links, besides posting them here you can also send them to webmaster@... to be placed on the Biometric Consortium site. We're trying to put some extra effort into getting the Biometric Consortium site updated and easier to use.

As for something to talk about:

At the next Biometric Consortium meeting on 16 Sept, there will be two panel sessions: one on biometric integration with smart cards and one on biometric testing. Fernando Podio and I will be moderators. We would like to have some questions or topics for the panel to discuss in addition to questions that the audience may ask.  If anyone has some suggested topics, please let me know.

Thanks --

Jeff

----------------------------------------
Jeff Dunn, Co-Chair Biometric Consortium
Dunn@...   www.biometrics.org
----------------------------------------

Here are my 2 cents.
1) I would sure love to have a biometric oriented discussion group that
minimized the amount of commercial hype and did not become a propaganda tool
of
overzealous marketers. on the other hand...
2) Is it not hypocritical to try to control who posts to a group which
only
exists because eGroups appends a paid advertisement to bottom every message.
Sometimes I miss the simplistic anarchy of old fashioned alt. newsgroups.
BTW, we should each try to post something substantive soon, now that we have
tested the waters with this administrative matter.
Regards, Ben Miller
____________________________________________________________________________
___
Subject: [biometrics] links
From: "philshinn@..." [SMTP:philshinn@...] at
TFSCCMAIL-Exchange
Date: 8/3/99 8:20 PM
I put links to bhsug, bc and ibg on the links page. if
you do not want those links there, let me know. you can
also put other links up if you want to. notice there's also
a shared database & calendar. how about posting ctst dates,
bc meetings, etc.?
take some time to explore the egroups interface. it really
is amazing. also, does anyone else want to be a manager
or moderator backup? there are currently no restrictions
on membership or postings, although if someone does get out
of line we can remove them from the group.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click Here to apply for a NextCard Internet Visa and start earning
FREE travel in HALF the time with the NextCard Rew@rds Program.
http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/449
eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Here are my 2 cents.

1)  I would sure love to have a biometric oriented discussion group that
minimized the amount of commercial hype and did not become a propaganda tool
of
overzealous marketers.

on the other hand...

2)   Is it not hypocritical to try to control who posts to a group which
only
exists because eGroups appends a paid advertisement to bottom every message.

Sometimes I miss the simplistic anarchy of old fashioned alt. newsgroups.

BTW, we should each try to post something substantive soon, now that we have
tested the waters with this administrative matter.


Regards,
Ben Miller
____________________________________________________________________________
___
Subject: [biometrics] links
From:    "philshinn@..." [SMTP:philshinn@...] at
TFSCCMAIL-Exchange
Date:    8/3/99  8:20 PM

I put links to bhsug, bc and ibg on the links page.  if
you do not want those links there, let me know.  you can
also put other links up if you want to. notice there's also
a shared database & calendar.  how about posting ctst dates,
bc meetings, etc.?

take some time to explore the egroups interface.  it really
is amazing.  also, does anyone else want to be a manager
or moderator backup?  there are currently no restrictions
on membership or postings, although if someone does get out
of line we can remove them from the group.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click Here to apply for a NextCard Internet Visa and start earning
FREE travel in HALF the time with the NextCard Rew@rds Program.
http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/449


eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Phil:
I thought about answering this...love your answers!

I'll be interested in sharing experiences with you as to what you find with
your egroups.  As you know, I'm learning as I go!
	 Stan

>X-Mailing-List: biometrics@egroups.com
>X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/biometrics/
>Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:21:33 -0700 (PDT)
>From: phil shinn <philshinn@...>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Subject: [biometrics] Re: POLL: Should links have commercial sites
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>My answers in caps (NOT SHOUTING)
>
>--- JLWayman@... wrote:
>>  Yo --
>> 1) I showed up late to the party.  What is this,
>LISTSERVER ON STEROIDS
>> what is it's purpose,
>GET SOME BUZZ GOING, OPEN IT UP TO THE MASSES
> who's
>> already here, and will beer be involved?
>SEE THE MEMBER LIST
>> 2) URL is always in capitals.
>> 3) I'd rather be surfing, but the sand bar is gone
>> at Carmel and we're still
>> a couple months away from the north Pacific swells
>> that make Dunes and Santa
>> Cruz go off, so to fill the time, I participate in
>> polls.
>> 4) Can you guys give recommendations on the
>> appropriate size for the middle
>> fin for my new tri-fin 9'1" nose rider?  4" makes it
>> squirrley on the nose,
>> but a 7" cutaway makes the thing very hard to turn.
>>
>TRY A WING-FOIL, APPROX. 5.5" WITH 2" WINGS
>> JLW

Phil:

I have added a link to [ http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics ]  on the CT
DSS Biometric Webpage [ http://www.dss.state.ct.us/digital.htm ]  under
"Other Sites of Interest".

Dave

My answers in caps (NOT SHOUTING)

--- JLWayman@... wrote:
>  Yo --
> 1) I showed up late to the party.  What is this,
LISTSERVER ON STEROIDS
> what is it's purpose,
GET SOME BUZZ GOING, OPEN IT UP TO THE MASSES
  who's
> already here, and will beer be involved?
SEE THE MEMBER LIST
> 2) URL is always in capitals.
> 3) I'd rather be surfing, but the sand bar is gone
> at Carmel and we're still
> a couple months away from the north Pacific swells
> that make Dunes and Santa
> Cruz go off, so to fill the time, I participate in
> polls.
> 4) Can you guys give recommendations on the
> appropriate size for the middle
> fin for my new tri-fin 9'1" nose rider?  4" makes it
> squirrley on the nose,
> but a 7" cutaway makes the thing very hard to turn.
>
TRY A WING-FOIL, APPROX. 5.5" WITH 2" WINGS
> JLW
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA:
> DOUBLE Rewards points,
> NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR.
> Apply online today!
> http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/606
>
>
> eGroups.com home:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group
> communications
>
>
>
>
>

===
P.C. Shinn http://home.earthlink.net/~philipshinn
voicemail 877 324 6289 (877 echobuzz) box 949 405 100
mobile +1 310 266 2382 fax +1 209 755 3573
email philshinn@... or ps@...
or for large attachments philipshinn@...
_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

Barring the 20MB space limitation, I think we should have all relevant links
categorized under non-profit, integrators, vendors, govt., regulations (e.g.
CA-SB70), consultants, education, info, individuals etc.  We probably don't
need consensus about putting in links such as BC, but it might be a good
idea to somehow vote on other not-so-reputable links so as to maintain the
integrity and high-value of this resource.  We should also have a clear
disclaimer about us not endorsing any of these entities/people.

Chetan...

> ----------
> From:  william@...[SMTP:william@...]
> Sent:  Wednesday, August 04, 1999 12:05 PM
> To:  biometrics@egroups.com
> Subject:  [biometrics] POLL: Should links have commercial sites
>
> Should the new Biometrics eGroup accept links for commercial biometric
> companies and products (integration, software and devices)?  Or should it
> be limited to non-profit, informational, testing organizations, etc...
>
> ----
>
> Please select one of the following:
>
>    o Anything goes
>    o Commercial - System integrators
>    o Commercial - Biometric software
>
>
> by going to the following Web form:
>
>    http://www.egroups.com/vote?id=933793552553
>
> Thank you!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.
> Start with up to 150 Points for joining!
> http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/630
>
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
>

Yo --
1) I showed up late to the party.  What is this, what is it's purpose, who's
already here, and will beer be involved?
2) URL is always in capitals.
3) I'd rather be surfing, but the sand bar is gone at Carmel and we're still
a couple months away from the north Pacific swells that make Dunes and Santa
Cruz go off, so to fill the time, I participate in polls.
4) Can you guys give recommendations on the appropriate size for the middle
fin for my new tri-fin 9'1" nose rider?  4" makes it squirrley on the nose,
but a 7" cutaway makes the thing very hard to turn.

JLW

Should the new Biometrics eGroup accept links for commercial biometric companies
and products (integration, software and devices)?  Or should it be limited to
non-profit, informational, testing organizations, etc...

----

Please select one or more of the following:

    o Anything goes
    o Commercial - System integrators
    o Commercial - Biometric software
    o Commercial - Biometric hardware/devices
    o Biometric testing services
    o Non-profit/Informational organizations
    o Governmental
    o Other


by going to the following Web form:

    http://www.egroups.com/vote?id=933793665249

Thank you!

Should the new Biometrics eGroup accept links for commercial biometric companies
and products (integration, software and devices)?  Or should it be limited to
non-profit, informational, testing organizations, etc...

----

Please select one of the following:

    o Anything goes
    o Commercial - System integrators
    o Commercial - Biometric software


by going to the following Web form:

    http://www.egroups.com/vote?id=933793552553

Thank you!

Let's take a poll!  William, since you raised the
question, think you can navigate through?
Only limitation to keep in mind is our 20 MB of
space.
My personal view is that the BC provides copious
links, and well organized, so they're not really needed here.

- phil

--- "William H. Saito" <william@...> wrote:
> While we are bringing this up, what are the ground
> rules for commercial
> links to the site?  I could see that getting out of
> hand pretty quickly if
> it is allowed.
>
>  -William
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: philshinn@...
> [mailto:philshinn@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 10:12 AM
> To: biometrics@eGroups.com
> Subject: [biometrics] Event at Biometric Store
>
>
> I guess this is an experiment?
> Well, we are making this up as we go along.
> How about ground rules for an event:
> It must be public, relevant, and described
> sufficiently so someone can take advantage
> of the posting, such as contact information,
> purpose and nature of the event, and
> maybe a url?  (BTW, is that 'an url'
> or 'a url' or do you separate the
> letters as in 'a u r l'?)
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA:
> DOUBLE Rewards points,
> NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR.
> Apply online today!
> http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/606
>
>
> eGroups.com home:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group
> communications
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Click Here to apply for a NextCard Internet Visa and
> start earning
> FREE travel in HALF the time with the NextCard
> Rew@rds Program.
> http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/449
>
>
> eGroups.com home:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group
> communications
>
>
>
>
>

===
P.C. Shinn http://home.earthlink.net/~philipshinn
voicemail 877 324 6289 (877 echobuzz) box 949 405 100
mobile +1 310 266 2382 fax +1 209 755 3573
email philshinn@... or ps@...
or for large attachments philipshinn@...
_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

I just checked.  You can get semi-decent information from the "new" BioAPI
web site.  It is located at www.bioapi.com (not .org like it used to be).

I know the site still needs a lot of work, but we are working on it.  If
anyone has comments or would like to see something emphasized or placed on
the BioAPI web site, please let me know.  Thanks.

	 -William

-----Original Message-----
From: William S. Meisel [mailto:wmeisel@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 12:40 AM
To: biometrics@egroups.com
Subject: [biometrics] Re: BioAPI meeting


What is contact information for possible registrants?
----- Original Message -----
From: <william@...>
To: <biometrics@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 6:18 PM
Subject: [biometrics] BioAPI meeting


> BioAPI Meeting - Portland Oregon (Intel)
> August 10-12
>
> Event: BioAPI meeting
> Date: Tue Aug 10, 1999
> Description: BioAPI Meeting - Portland Oregon (Intel)
> August 10-12
>
> To add this event to your personal calendar, simply click on this link:
> http://www.egroups.com/cal?md=accept&eid=176063
>
> If you have any other comments, you can reply to this message.
>
> eGroups.com Calendar
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Click Here to apply for a NextCard Internet Visa and start earning
> FREE travel in HALF the time with the NextCard Rew@rds Program.
> http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/449
>
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
>
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------
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FREE travel in HALF the time with the NextCard Rew@rds Program.
http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/449


eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

While we are bringing this up, what are the ground rules for commercial
links to the site?  I could see that getting out of hand pretty quickly if
it is allowed.

	 -William

-----Original Message-----
From: philshinn@... [mailto:philshinn@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 10:12 AM
To: biometrics@eGroups.com
Subject: [biometrics] Event at Biometric Store


I guess this is an experiment?
Well, we are making this up as we go along.
How about ground rules for an event:
It must be public, relevant, and described
sufficiently so someone can take advantage
of the posting, such as contact information,
purpose and nature of the event, and
maybe a url?  (BTW, is that 'an url'
or 'a url' or do you separate the
letters as in 'a u r l'?)



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http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/606


eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

I guess this is an experiment?
Well, we are making this up as we go along.
How about ground rules for an event:
It must be public, relevant, and described
sufficiently so someone can take advantage
of the posting, such as contact information,
purpose and nature of the event, and
maybe a url?  (BTW, is that 'an url'
or 'a url' or do you separate the
letters as in 'a u r l'?)

What is contact information for possible registrants?
----- Original Message -----
From: <william@...>
To: <biometrics@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 6:18 PM
Subject: [biometrics] BioAPI meeting


> BioAPI Meeting - Portland Oregon (Intel)
> August 10-12
>
> Event: BioAPI meeting
> Date: Tue Aug 10, 1999
> Description: BioAPI Meeting - Portland Oregon (Intel)
> August 10-12
>
> To add this event to your personal calendar, simply click on this link:
> http://www.egroups.com/cal?md=accept&eid=176063
>
> If you have any other comments, you can reply to this message.
>
> eGroups.com Calendar
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Click Here to apply for a NextCard Internet Visa and start earning
> FREE travel in HALF the time with the NextCard Rew@rds Program.
> http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/449
>
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
>
>

BioAPI Meeting - Portland Oregon (Intel)
August 10-12

Event: BioAPI meeting
Date: Tue Aug 10, 1999
Description: BioAPI Meeting - Portland Oregon (Intel)
August 10-12

To add this event to your personal calendar, simply click on this link:
http://www.egroups.com/cal?md=accept&eid=176063

If you have any other comments, you can reply to this message.

eGroups.com Calendar

Phil,

Took a look around earlier today -- looks interesting. I would be happy to
be a manager backup....

-Samir

-----Original Message-----
From: philshinn@... [mailto:philshinn@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 8:21 PM
To: biometrics@eGroups.com
Subject: [biometrics] links


I put links to bhsug, bc and ibg on the links page.  if
you do not want those links there, let me know.  you can
also put other links up if you want to. notice there's also
a shared database & calendar.  how about posting ctst dates,
bc meetings, etc.?

take some time to explore the egroups interface.  it really
is amazing.  also, does anyone else want to be a manager
or moderator backup?  there are currently no restrictions
on membership or postings, although if someone does get out
of line we can remove them from the group.


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eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Please feel free to invite whoever you think might be interested.
I created this group because I think the technology is great here,
and I haven't seen a lot of traffic on the bc list recently.  Plus,
this group is open to anyone, whereas the bc listserver is primarily
a government operation.  Not that I have anything against the state,
mind you, why some of my best friends work for organs of the state ;->.

An open listserver for anyone interested in
biometric technologies

Group Manager: biometrics-owner@egroups.com

To subscribe, send a message to biometrics-subscribe@egroups.com or go to the e-groups's home page at http://www.egroups.com/group/biometrics/