I'm a first-born and have taken Myers Briggs (4) four times as an
adult.  I have always tested 50/50 ENTJ and ENFJ.
Christopher

--- In birthordersurvey@yahoogroups.com, "Emily291113"
<emily291113@y...> wrote:
> I noticed this group's been quiet for quite awhile... So if
there's
> anyone still here, I was in another group and we were discussing
how
> birth order relates to Myers-Briggs type.  Has anyone ever thought
of
> this?  Does anyone even know their Myers-Briggs personality type?
>
> If not, this free test is a good place to start:
> http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp
>
> Well, I would hope most of you know your birth order...
>
> Me, I'm a firstborn and ISFJ in case you're curious.
>
> :)Emily

Statistically, more than 50 percent of U. S. presidents, two thirds
of entrepreurs, and 45 percent of female world leaders in the last 40
years have been first-borns.

Heck, I may as well jump in here. First of all, my observations are
that everyone seems to have an issue about their birth order.
Secondly, birth order seems to help define our role in life--I see it
as God's path to who He intended us to be. Thirdly, Dr. Stein, this
is a really cool idea to have a message board as a research tool
and you are clever to think of it.

Here's my story briefly. I grew up with two of my brothers--one on
each side. A third brother was born when I was 13, so we are not
siblings in the developmental sense.

I was like a diamond in a setting--being the only girl gave me a
uniqueness. But I was in heavy competition with my older brother
who seemed to have something I didn't. I must tell you that I felt
that my family valued boys and their achievements more than
things that girls did. (And pul-lease, I don't want to hear
sympathetic whining about discrimination from women under
the age of 40--you are clueless about what I went through--it's
not even the same world for you, so grow up.)

Anyway, I was always second best, in spite of my uniqueness.  It
wasn't until recently that I identified a vague sense that nothing I
do is ever good enough to this day. I took piano lessons and did
cultural things with mom. They played baseball in the little
leagues. I didn't like dolls much except for their aesthetic
qualities, and I played baseball as soon as I got home from
school with the boys down the block (but not in Little
League--girls didn't have that).

To make a long story short, some really awful things happened
in the life of my older brother when we were young teenagers. I
still had some contact with him, but he wasn't there for me any
more, although I still saw him. I wasn't able to follow him any
more and I felt that he had died (although he hadn't). It still
impacts us to this day. I never had him to follow anywhere
anymore--and you can imagine, as I had spent my whole life in
his shadow up until then and depended on him.

There were two years' difference between my older brother and
me and only one year's difference betweeen my younger brother
and me (people mistook us for twins sometimes). I admired my
older brother but was never good enough to travel in his circles. I
got along okay with my younger brother and we were lumped
together a lot in activities.

I don't know where I'm headed now. But for what it's worth....My
younger brother is the most independent, the constant clown--I
think he's maybe an ENFP on Myers-Briggs. I'm not sure about
my older brother. He's paranoid (I suspect he has a disorder)
and shy and unsure of himself. Me--I'm an INFP. So does birth
order affect temperament? I dunno.

Don't forget Elvis Presley and his twin



--- In birthordersurvey@yahoogroups.com, DrStein_AAISF wrote:
> Diego Rivera (twin brother died at
> birth)<br>Thornton Wilder (twin brother died at
birth)<br>Johann
> Ambrosius and Johann Cristian Bach<br>F.E and F.O.
> Stanley<br>Abigale van Buren and Ann Landers<br>Robert
and Wallace
> Brode<br>John Lindsey (twin brother)<br>Eleanor McGovern
(twin
> sister)

It is an improvement of Weber's and Fechner's Laws on sensations and
stimuli.

Read more on Smarandache law on sensations and stimuli, illusion,
synonymity test, complex, and syndrome at:
http://www.gallup.unm.edu/~smarandache/psychology.htm

J. Redford jr.
Liverpool, U.K.

I am very controlling - or would like to be - when it comes to my own
life. But not of other people. When you're the youngest you don't
have anybody to tell what to do. It would never occur to me to tell
my mother not to listen to the religious fundamentalist preachers she
listens to or sends money to. I don't like it, but I have no
authority over her. While my oldest brother can tell her what
newspapers to read/not to read and she obeys without question...
Lorrie


--- In birthordersurvey@y..., Emily S <emily291113@y...> wrote:
> Do you see yourself as somewhat controlling as well?
> If this test is not in error (which it often can be),
> then your type tends to be controlling also, or at
> least wanting to control your own life.  And from the
> sound of it here, that seems to be right.  Perhaps you
> have a conflict with her as she is very similar to
> you?
>
> I think I can see too, from your mother's point of
> view, where she might be concerned that her child
> follow in her religious steps, like carrying on her
> legacy.  Of course, it is your own choice.  But maybe
> showing interest/concern for her and her religious
> choices would help her to better understand yours?
>
> If you'd like to talk more about personality, there
> are many groups for each type.  Although ISTJ groups
> are rather sparse and not much conversation goes on.
> But a good one that I know of is SJtype:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SJtype/
>
> :)Emily
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

Do you see yourself as somewhat controlling as well?
If this test is not in error (which it often can be),
then your type tends to be controlling also, or at
least wanting to control your own life.  And from the
sound of it here, that seems to be right.  Perhaps you
have a conflict with her as she is very similar to
you?

I think I can see too, from your mother's point of
view, where she might be concerned that her child
follow in her religious steps, like carrying on her
legacy.  Of course, it is your own choice.  But maybe
showing interest/concern for her and her religious
choices would help her to better understand yours?

If you'd like to talk more about personality, there
are many groups for each type.  Although ISTJ groups
are rather sparse and not much conversation goes on.
But a good one that I know of is SJtype:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SJtype/

:)Emily

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

I took the test, Emily and I'm an ISTJ. Also the youngest. I wonder
if anyone out there has problems interacting/getting along with a
parent who is the opposite. My mother is a firstborn, and if I could
be forgiven for applying stereotypes, she is very controlling. She
sees nothing wrong with this - it's her way of "being concerned." I
am 43 and waaaaaaaaaaaay too old to have my mother telling me what my
religious beliefs should be and what my priorities in life should be -
  these issues should have been settled a quarter of a century ago,
but I'm still fighting her for my independence and autonomy. Any body
else have a similar experence, i'd like to hear from you (even if
you're the oldest and your parent is the youngest.) This is a topic
I've always been interested in. Lorrie

I noticed this group's been quiet for quite awhile... So if there's
anyone still here, I was in another group and we were discussing how
birth order relates to Myers-Briggs type.  Has anyone ever thought of
this?  Does anyone even know their Myers-Briggs personality type?

If not, this free test is a good place to start:
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

Well, I would hope most of you know your birth order...

Me, I'm a firstborn and ISFJ in case you're curious.

:)Emily

Didn't Plato or Socrates have very specific observations about one's behavior
based on birth order?

Thank you for your quick reply and relevant info.<br><br>If you have read
PROMISED SEED, do you have any reactions to it?  Since it came out in the
sixties(?), is it outdated?

Perhaps Judith Harris stole some of his thunder
with her book "The Nurture Assumption," and her
aggressive critique of his perspective. See
<a href=http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/sulloway_harris/
target=new>http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/sulloway_harris/</a> for his reply to
her. Harris' ideas, although
weakly supported, might be more appealing to many
parents.

Concerning BORN TO REBEL, I was surprised that it didn't become a blockbuster
bestseller.

Thanks for the tip.

Toman's book offers a highly popularized view of
birth order, often stretching it into simplistic
forumulas. For a more balanced view of early influences on
personality development, check "The Style of Life Tree," at
<a href=http://go.ourworld.nu/hstein/tree.htm
target=new>http://go.ourworld.nu/hstein/tree.htm</a> .

Does anyone have any feelings about Toman's book?  Or is it considered out of
date?

For Alfred Adler's view on birth order and other
early childhood influences, read his book "What Life
Could Mean to You." Also look at "Lydia Sicher: An
Adlerian Perspective," edited by Adele Davidson.
<br><br>"Born to Rebel: Birth Order, Family Dynamics, and
Creative Lives," by Frank Sulloway offers other
perspectives on the influence of birth order.

Any recommendations? <br><br>I don't want to
sound prejudiced, but some of my best friends are only
children. Wasn't Hamlet an only child? Weren't all the
characters dead at the end of the play?<br><br>When I read
that only child families are becoming more and
prevalent, I have to say:<br><br>Hamlet only had to deal
with slings and arrows,<br><br>The rest of us non-only
children should have such complaints.

Since there has not been much traffic here in a
while, I thought I would offer this question up for
discussion.<br><br>At what age, if any, would you think it would be too
late(or too old) to introduce siblings who had no
previous knowledge of each other?

Check <a href=http://go.ourworld.nu/hstein/birthord.htm
target=new>http://go.ourworld.nu/hstein/birthord.htm</a> .

I would be curious that if you think about people
you know who have no sieblings (or happen to be
one)... what would you say that are typical traits of an
only child?<br><br>I have found some but before that I
would like to hear other people comments.

(Copy of posting at
<a href=http://goodhousekeeping.women.com/gh/misc/features/60midc11.htm
target=new>http://goodhousekeeping.women.com/gh/misc/features/60midc11.htm</a>
)<br> <br>For an upcoming Good Housekeeping
feature on middle children, we want to talk to women who
were the middle child in their families. We want to
know your thoughts on middle child syndrome — is it
true that middle children get less attention (and the
short end of the stick) while growing up? How has being
a middle child affected you later in life?
<br><br>Email your comments about being a middle child to
GHfeatures@..., and include your name and telephone number.

New "Questions and Answers About Classical
Adlerian Psychology" have been posted on the AAISF web
site. To access the page directly, go to
<a href=http://go.ourworld.nu/hstein/q-a-12.htm
target=new>http://go.ourworld.nu/hstein/q-a-12.htm</a> . The featured topics
are:<br><br> - More on
Birth Order<br> - Quotes About Self-Esteem<br> -
Striving and Compensation<br> -
Psychobiographies<br><br>Thanks to Adele Davidson, a photograph of Lydia Sicher
may now be found at
<a href=http://go.ourworld.nu/hstein/sic-bio.htm
target=new>http://go.ourworld.nu/hstein/sic-bio.htm</a> . She has also donated
an extensive file of
correspondence (1945-1955), between Lydia Sicher and Oscar
Spiel, to the AAISF Archives. <br><br>A copy of Alfred
Adler's U.S. Immigration card may be found at
<a href=http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/classicaladlerianpsychology
target=new>http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/classicaladlerianpsychology</a> .

"Me First: Does Birth Order Matter?" a BBC
television program about birth order, will be aired Tuesday,
May 16th on The Learning Channel in the United
States. Originally shown on British TV, the program
offers several contrasting views about the impact of
birth order on personality development. Frank Sulloway
("Born to Rebel..."), Judith Harris ("The Nurture
Assumption"), and several other researchers, theorists, and
authors are interviewed. Henry Stein, Director of the
Alfred Adler Institute of San Francisco, presents an
Adlerian perspective of birth order, as well as a brief
demonstration of a therapeutic application.<br><br>The one-hour
program balances research, theory and human interest,
including a fascinating interview with the descendants of
Charles Darwin.<br><br>Not all cable networks include The
Learning Channel. Check the television listings under TLC
in your local newspaper. The program could be listed
as "Birth Order: A Sibling Story," and may be
scheduled for 10:00 PM PST.

Well I had enough,and end up moving to lincoln.
Sorry that I won't be around to be in your abnormal #2
psych. class next fall. I really enjoyed you as a
teacher and I know that I am not alone in the way I have
heard other people talk. Good Luck in the future,and Be
thinking of you .Bye.Lawrence

Yes, I think that there is a very strong connection between the feeling of
community and personal responsibility.

Don't you think that the "feeling of community" is partner to personal
responsibility for one's actions within both the community of family and the
greater community of society?

Classical Adlerian Quotations on "The Feeling of
Community"<br>--------------------------------------------------------<br>Select\
ed comments on the feeling of community by Alfred
Adler, Alexander Muller, Sophia de Vries, Lydia Sicher,
Anthony Bruck, Erwin Wexberg, Henry Stein and Martha
Edwards may be found at <a href=http://go.ourworld.nu/hstein/
target=new>http://go.ourworld.nu/hstein/</a>
.<br><br>Your comments and questions may be posted on the
discussion forum
at<br><a href=http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/classicaladlerianpsychology
target=new>http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/classicaladlerianpsychology</a> .

For a provocative view of the early childhood
roots of tyrants, terrorists and murderers, read "The
Political Consequences of Child Abuse," by Alice Miller, in
The Journal of Psychohistory 26 (2) Fall 1998,
available on line at
<a href=http://www.psychohistory.com/06_politic.html
target=new>http://www.psychohistory.com/06_politic.html</a> . Miller's ideas
frequently run parallel to those
of Adler. You may return to this forum, or
<a href=http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/classicaladlerianpsychology
target=new>http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/classicaladlerianpsychology</a> to post
your comments and questions.

You are invited to participate in an Adlerian
Community Survey. Tell us about yourself, and your opinions
about Adlerian psychology. You can access the survey
directly at <a href=http://home.att.net/~HTStein/att-form.htm
target=new>http://home.att.net/~HTStein/att-form.htm</a>
.<br><br>I would sincerely appreciate your response. It will
help me provide online materials and activities that
are relevant to your interests.<br><br>Henry T.
Stein, Ph.D.<br>Alfred Adler Insitute of San
Francisco<br><a href=http://go.ourworld.nu/hstein/
target=new>http://go.ourworld.nu/hstein/</a>