Thought this was interesting...

http://java.sun.com/developer/community/chat/JavaLive/2004/jl0406.html

--
-Eric
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

Right now the record (companies are) trying to figure out how they are
going to keep themselves in cocaine and limousines and starlets and
whatever else those guys do for a living. — Los Angeles radio giant Phil
Hendrie

Hi.  I'm going to try and slap together a class to control GnuPG
tonight.  If anybodys up for helping let me know via email or IM.  Thanks.

P.S. - I sent an email this morning saying something similar but it
never (or at least hasn't yet) hit the list.  Sorry if you get 2 emails
about this.  :)

--
-Eric
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

Right now the record (companies are) trying to figure out how they are
going to keep themselves in cocaine and limousines and starlets and
whatever else those guys do for a living. — Los Angeles radio giant Phil
Hendrie

Hi. Tonight I put a couple hours in on the GnuPG GUI.  It's my first
"real" program (hello world) and I'm a little stuck.  I'm using the
NetBeans IDE.  I have a basic JFrame card layout with tabbed panes.  It
looks okay but needs work.  Now when somebody clicks on a jButton1 to
create a new key pair, I'm wondering exactly how I should do that.  I
want to use

    Runtime.getRuntime().exec(new String[] { "sh", "-c", "gpg --gen-key" })

but I'm not sure where.  Should I make a new class or is there another
way to initiate the action?  Any comments are very welcome.

--
-Eric
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

Right now the record (companies are) trying to figure out how they are
going to keep themselves in cocaine and limousines and starlets and
whatever else those guys do for a living. — Los Angeles radio giant Phil
Hendrie

GnuPG GUI Project Notes.  LINKS.  COMMANDS.

java.io

Run an external process with Runtime.exec() and access its input and output
streams via the Process.getInputStream() and Process.getOutputStream() methods. 
Runtime.exec() runs programs locally, just as if you'd typed the command into a
command shell.

Output from commands executed by Runtime.exec() is sent to streams that your
application has to read: you can call Process.getInputStream() to get normal
output from the command and Process.getErrorStream() to get error output.

You can use the Runtime.exec() methods to execute commands. For example:

   Runtime.getRuntime().exec("pppd")

Some methods take an array of arguments, others take command strings which are
subsequently split up into an array of arguments. If you want to interpret shell
metacharacters (such as redirection characters and pipes) in your command,
you'll need to run a shell and pass the command to it for interpretation:

   Runtime.getRuntime().exec(new String[] { "sh", "-c", "ls >foo" })

//what is "-c" you ask...
   -c string If the -c option is present,  then  commands  are  read  from
string.   If  there  are arguments after the string, they are assigned to the
positional parameters, starting with $0.



Whichever method you use, you'll need to open file descriptors on the Process
object returned from exec() to send it input or obtain its output:

   Process process = Runtime.getRuntime().exec("...command...");
   InputStream input = process.getInputStream();
             .
             .
             .


************************************************************
LINKS:

http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.3/docs/api/java/lang/Runtime.html
(Class Runtime explanation)

http://mindprod.com/jgloss/exec.html
(Good explanation of Runtime.getRuntime(). exec( "myprog.exe" ))

http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-12-2000/jw-1229-traps.html  (article)

http://www.mountainstorm.com/publications/javazine.html
(basic explanation)

http://webber.dewinter.com/gnupg_howto/english/GPGMiniHowto.html  (Mini how to
use GnuPG)

http://www.gnupg.org/gph/en/manual.html
(How to use GnuPG)

http://www.gnupg.org/gph/en/manual.html#AEN574
(How to write an interface)

http://www.gnupg.org/(en)/documentation/manpage.en.html
(The man page)
************************************************************
WANTED:

     * Generating a key
     * Deleting a key
     * Importing keys from text or a file
     * Exporting a key to text or a file
     * View key properties
     * Change owner trust

     * Encrypting file
     * Decrypting file
     * Signing file
     * Verifying signed file

************************************************************
COMMANDS:

//GENERATING A NEW KEY
gpg --gen-key

Please select what kind of key you want:
    (1) DSA and ElGamal (default)
    (2) DSA (sign only)
    (5) RSA (sign only)
Your selection?
//I selected 1
DSA keypair will have 1024 bits.
About to generate a new ELG-E keypair.
               minimum keysize is  768 bits
               default keysize is 1024 bits
     highest suggested keysize is 2048 bits
What keysize do you want? (1024)
//I selected 2048
Requested keysize is 2048 bits
Please specify how long the key should be valid.
          0 = key does not expire
       <n>  = key expires in n days
       <n>w = key expires in n weeks
       <n>m = key expires in n months
       <n>y = key expires in n years
Key is valid for? (0)
//I selected 0
Key does not expire at all
Is this correct (y/n)?
//y
You need a User-ID to identify your key; the software constructs the user id
from Real Name, Comment and Email Address in this form:
     "Heinrich Heine (Der Dichter) <heinrichh@...>"

Real name:
//D.E. Chadbourne
Email address:
//235u@...
Comment:
//I left it blank
You selected this USER-ID:
     "D.E. Chadbourne <235u@...>"

Change (N)ame, (C)omment, (E)mail or (O)kay/(Q)uit?
//O
You need a Passphrase to protect your secret key.

Enter passphrase:
//I chose something
Repeat passphrase:
//did it and it took a while for the random number gen
public and secret key created and signed.
key marked as ultimately trusted.

pub  1024D/A674DFD5 2004-05-12 D.E. Chadbourne <235u@...>
      Key fingerprint = 5D54 3891 0CBA 229B 1DA3  386A 4362 1083 A674 DFD5
sub  2048g/0410C91D 2004-05-12
//Finished

/*
  * PCP.java
  *
  * Created on May 11, 2004, 6:38 PM
  */

package PCPwork;
import java.io.*;

/**
  *
  * @author  eric
  */
public class PCP extends javax.swing.JFrame {

     /** Creates new form PCP */
     public PCP() {
         initComponents();
     }

     /** This method is called from within the constructor to
      * initialize the form.
      * WARNING: Do NOT modify this code. The content of this method is
      * always regenerated by the Form Editor.
      */
     private void initComponents() {//GEN-BEGIN:initComponents
         jTabbedPane1 = new javax.swing.JTabbedPane();
         jTabbedPane2 = new javax.swing.JTabbedPane();
         jTextField1 = new javax.swing.JTextField();
         jButton1 = new javax.swing.JButton();
         jTabbedPane3 = new javax.swing.JTabbedPane();
         jTextField2 = new javax.swing.JTextField();
         jTabbedPane4 = new javax.swing.JTabbedPane();
         jTextField3 = new javax.swing.JTextField();
         jTabbedPane5 = new javax.swing.JTabbedPane();
         jTextField4 = new javax.swing.JTextField();
         jTabbedPane6 = new javax.swing.JTabbedPane();
         jTextField5 = new javax.swing.JTextField();
         jTabbedPane7 = new javax.swing.JTabbedPane();
         jTextArea1 = new javax.swing.JTextArea();

         getContentPane().setLayout(new java.awt.CardLayout());

         setTitle("PCP - Particularly Cool Privacy");
         addWindowListener(new java.awt.event.WindowAdapter() {
             public void windowClosing(java.awt.event.WindowEvent evt) {
                 exitForm(evt);
             }
         });

         jTabbedPane1.setBackground(new java.awt.Color(204, 204, 255));
         jTextField1.setText("jTextField1");
         jTabbedPane2.addTab("Enter passphrase to manage keys", jTextField1);

         jButton1.setText("Click here to generate a new key pair.");
         jTabbedPane2.addTab("New Key", jButton1);

         jTabbedPane1.addTab("Keys", jTabbedPane2);

         jTabbedPane3.setBackground(new java.awt.Color(204, 204, 255));
         jTextField2.setText("jTextField2");
         jTabbedPane3.addTab("Enter Passphrase", jTextField2);

         jTabbedPane1.addTab("Sign", jTabbedPane3);

         jTextField3.setText("jTextField3");
         jTabbedPane4.addTab("Enter your passphrase please", jTextField3);

         jTabbedPane1.addTab("Encrypt", jTabbedPane4);

         jTextField4.setText("jTextField4");
         jTabbedPane5.addTab("Enter passphrase below", jTextField4);

         jTabbedPane1.addTab("Verify", jTabbedPane5);

         jTextField5.setText("jTextField5");
         jTabbedPane6.addTab("Type passphrase and enter", jTextField5);

         jTabbedPane1.addTab("Decrypt", jTabbedPane6);

         jTextArea1.setForeground(new java.awt.Color(0, 0, 204));
         jTextArea1.setRows(8);
         jTextArea1.setText("This little GnuPG GUI is brought to you by the folks
at\nhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/caffeinated_penguins/\nPlease let us know if
you experience any bugs with this application.\nYou may do anything you desire
with this code.  Enjoy.");
         jTabbedPane7.addTab("Caffeinated Penguins", jTextArea1);

         jTabbedPane1.addTab("Info", jTabbedPane7);

         getContentPane().add(jTabbedPane1, "null");

         pack();
     }//GEN-END:initComponents

     /** Exit the Application */
     private void exitForm(java.awt.event.WindowEvent evt)
{//GEN-FIRST:event_exitForm
         System.exit(0);
     }//GEN-LAST:event_exitForm

     /**
      * @param args the command line arguments
      */
     public static void main(String args[]) {
         new PCP().show();
     }


     // Variables declaration - do not modify//GEN-BEGIN:variables
     private javax.swing.JButton jButton1;
     private javax.swing.JTabbedPane jTabbedPane1;
     private javax.swing.JTabbedPane jTabbedPane2;
     private javax.swing.JTabbedPane jTabbedPane3;
     private javax.swing.JTabbedPane jTabbedPane4;
     private javax.swing.JTabbedPane jTabbedPane5;
     private javax.swing.JTabbedPane jTabbedPane6;
     private javax.swing.JTabbedPane jTabbedPane7;
     private javax.swing.JTextArea jTextArea1;
     private javax.swing.JTextField jTextField1;
     private javax.swing.JTextField jTextField2;
     private javax.swing.JTextField jTextField3;
     private javax.swing.JTextField jTextField4;
     private javax.swing.JTextField jTextField5;
     // End of variables declaration//GEN-END:variables

}

--- In caffeinated_penguins@yahoogroups.com, "D.E. Chadbourne"
<235u@c...> wrote:

> Excellent!  I have a question for you already.  For an
inexperienced
> programmer like myself, do you think it would be easier to make a
GnuPG
> front end using Runtime.exec() as it runs programs locally, just as
if
> you'd typed the command into a command shell (which is how I keep
> thinking about this thing), or use java.security as I've read
somewhere
> that it's capable of directly accessing the key ring and do other
cool
> tricks.

My feeling is that, in the beginning at least, the former will be
much easier and more effective.  From what I hear (I have almost no
experience in writing encryption code) it can be surprisingly
tricky and difficult to get it right, and I think we would be
better off letting the GnuPG code, which is heavily tested, do
the heavy lifting.

To start with, I think the biggest difficulty may be with
understanding the subtle difficulties of data encryption,
and we would do well to learn what we can from GnuPG before
we go writing out own custom encryption code.

However..  I believe GnuPG is unix-only (?), and if that's the
case, we'll be stuck there.  But hey, once we understand the
issues involved a bit better, I don't see why we can't write
it in pure Java, letting the app work everywhere.  We can
still read (maybe with difficulty - I don't know C) the GnuPG
code for ideas.

> I'm thinking Runtime.exec(), Process.getInputStream() and
> Process.getOutputStream(), etc.  You know, just tell GnuPG what to
do
> and not worry about screwing up.

I've never used GnuPG myself but, from what I've read about it,
this is the method I would have thought of.

What features were you thinking of supporting for the GUI wrapper?

> Any pointers would be greatly
> appreciated!  I'm obviously learning as I go on this one.

Heh, so am I!

agluyt wrote:
> Howdy all, I happened on a mention of this group on craigslist.org
> and thought I'd stop by.  I'm Andrew, a lapsed programmer trying
> to get back into the game, professionally speaking.  I recently
> got my Java Programmer certification from Sun, and am currently
> working on getting the web component developer certification.
>
> So, I am interested in some projects!  Not only just server-side,
> but anything and everything.  I have read the messages about a GPG
> frontend, and would like to help out.  I can do some GUI programming,
> and am familiar with the Java API in general so I can help out
> whereever.
>
Excellent!  I have a question for you already.  For an inexperienced
programmer like myself, do you think it would be easier to make a GnuPG
front end using Runtime.exec() as it runs programs locally, just as if
you'd typed the command into a command shell (which is how I keep
thinking about this thing), or use java.security as I've read somewhere
that it's capable of directly accessing the key ring and do other cool
tricks.  I'm thinking Runtime.exec(), Process.getInputStream() and
Process.getOutputStream(), etc.  You know, just tell GnuPG what to do
and not worry about screwing up.  Any pointers would be greatly
appreciated!  I'm obviously learning as I go on this one.

> As an idea for other projects for the group, I have been working
> intermittently on an RSS feed aggregator.  Currently it only works
> for RSS 2.0 feeds, and there are a number of features which could
> be added.  You can take a look here:
> http://www3.telus.net/aluyt/aggregator.html
>
Wow!  I like it.  I'm very glad you've decided to come hang out with us.
   I hope I don't drive you away with too many questions.  And I'm sure
somebody here would love to collaborate with you.  Cool project indeed.
   If we ever get a site up (offering a few projects for download I hope)
it would be great to have your RSS feed aggregator on there.

Welcome aboard.
-Eric.

--
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

Hi again.  As I've been surfing around for info on the best way to do
this I've been jotting down notes.  Here's the one about java.security.
   I'll read more about this at the sun site today but I'm not sure if
it's the way to go.  I keep seeing the terminal infront of me.

> The more recent versions (1.4.x) of Java include both the
> 'java.security' and 'javax.crypto' packages and their associated
> subpackages. With these you are able to sign an object and/or to encrypt
> it. A standard tool is included for accessing keys stored in a
> proprietary-format keyfile. If you have an older version of Java, it is
> likely that it includes the 'java.security' package, and that a version
> of the Java Cryptography Extension (JCE) will be available for it (e.g.
> http://java.sun.com/security).

-Eric

--
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

Howdy all, I happened on a mention of this group on craigslist.org
and thought I'd stop by.  I'm Andrew, a lapsed programmer trying
to get back into the game, professionally speaking.  I recently
got my Java Programmer certification from Sun, and am currently
working on getting the web component developer certification.

So, I am interested in some projects!  Not only just server-side,
but anything and everything.  I have read the messages about a GPG
frontend, and would like to help out.  I can do some GUI programming,
and am familiar with the Java API in general so I can help out
whereever.

As an idea for other projects for the group, I have been working
intermittently on an RSS feed aggregator.  Currently it only works
for RSS 2.0 feeds, and there are a number of features which could
be added.  You can take a look here:
http://www3.telus.net/aluyt/aggregator.html

So yes, hello :)

> you like, you can create the GUI.  I'm no artist
> with that stuff.

No, I would like to learn along with you. I'll look at
code and then do some palying and fiddling and
netpicking.I'll learn that way faster. When will you
start with class diagrams and scribbling? Are you
planing to use some tool like dia or something for
this? Please lets start with that first.

http://www.gnupg.org/(en)/related_software/frontends.html#gui

Ok, I think one of these days I'll play with atleast
one of them. I would like to think of this as two
module project one which can handle GnuPG interaction
and one which is pure GUI. Something like a lib which
is pulgable in any system and one sample application
(GUI) which shows how to use all the functions of this
library. I donot know if you are also thinking this.


> >
> > 5) Will there be a cvsweb atleast for the code
> > browsing?
> I'm new to programming (I grew up with electronics.
> Board level repair
> and soldering irons) and I've never used CVS.  We
> can if you like.  What
> does Andy think?


I would push for CVS. And I think its better if you
know atleast one source control system, normally
people  ask this in interviews.


-kd/









__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

Hi.  Forgive me, I love to snip.

> Now for frontend/GUI development I have some
> questions:
>
> 1) Do we have list of features which we want to code
> for?
>
Since the features of the command line for GnuPG are the superset, I
desire our subset to have as many as possible.  But in a GUI layout that
isn't confusing to the new user.  I'll make a list of the commands.  If
you like, you can create the GUI.  I'm no artist with that stuff.

> 2) Wouldn't you want it to be compatible with SMIME?
Mmmnnn....  Our project as it stands now is merely a frontend for GnuPG.
   They are OpenPGP compliant.  I don't think we need to be concerned
with file formats yet.

>
> 3) Are you going to code something which can handle
> certificate generation and managements if you enable
> smime also.
>
I don't think so.

> 4) Do we have a list of frontend which exists and
> their feature which we dont like and what they lack
> kind of list? This can be done only if we know what we
> want in our GUI.
I'll get all the commands together in a list and try to figure out how
to communicate with the app.  If you want check out
http://www.gnupg.org/(en)/related_software/frontends.html#gui
for a list of GUI's.  They seem similar to me.  It would be nice to
offer something different and intuitive.

>
> 5) Will there be a cvsweb atleast for the code
> browsing?
I'm new to programming (I grew up with electronics.  Board level repair
and soldering irons) and I've never used CVS.  We can if you like.  What
does Andy think?

>
> I'm ranting too much?
> -kd/
Hello no!  Please keep ranting.
-Eric.

--
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

As for server side if we have a one small guide of
what is where would be nice also list of tools
available. While installation if you carry out some
customisation for tuning please provide us with the
same.

Now for frontend/GUI development I have some
questions:

1) Do we have list of features which we want to code
for?

2) Wouldn't you want it to be compatible with SMIME?

3) Are you going to code something which can handle
certificate generation and managements if you enable
smime also.

4) Do we have a list of frontend which exists and
their feature which we dont like and what they lack
kind of list? This can be done only if we know what we
want in our GUI.

5) Will there be a cvsweb atleast for the code
browsing?

I'm ranting too much?
-kd/








__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

Hi.  I've asked Andy if he would like to be the server project lead for
us.  He said ok and is currently setting one up.  If you have any
special requests, want to help him or what ever, let him know!  I think
this will give us some valuable practice.  A place to put our toys.
I've asked him to be very vocal.  That way I can install the same apps
on my computer and follow along.  Asking questions, etc.  So please
consider speaking up and getting involved if you're into the server side
of things.

I'm going to focus more on a fundamental understanding of Java.  Which
for me means to continue studying and start coding.  Right now I'm
questioning whether or not to make the GnuPG front end or do something
completely from scratch.  Has anybody worked with the java.security
package?  Any good reading I should check out before diving in?  I just
want a slick GUI for encrypting files / folders, cross platform
compatible and maybe be compatible with GnuPG.  If anybody wants to help
let me know what you would like to do.  Otherwise I'll just post my
progress / code and spit out an occasional question.

Is there anything else we should do?

-Eric.

--
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

The following caffeinated_penguins poll is now closed.  Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: Should we have a server up for the group
to play with?

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- YES., 2 votes, 40.00%
- Not sure., 2 votes, 40.00%
- Don't care., 0 votes, 0.00%
- No server needed., 1 votes, 20.00%
- No more polls!, 0 votes, 0.00%



For more information about this group, please visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/caffeinated_penguins

For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/

Hello.  snip, snip, snip:

> Most people use GPG for mail; the Enigmail plugin for Mozilla
> and Mozilla Thunderbird is very easy to use.
>
> -dsr-

Yep.  I'm not thinking of an MUA frontend.  I often encrypt folders on
my pc and decrypt them only when needed.  I'ld rather click a button
than type at the command line.  Don't hate me for that!  I really miss
having the convenience of the PGP Corp product or something like
ShellCrypt http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,687039,00.asp to use for
encrypting files on windows.  No reason I can't have a similar thing on
Linux.

> If you use KDE, I like KGPG.
>
> -Josh

I have not tried KGPG as I use Gnome, but I have looked at their website
and it looks very similar to what I want, except it's desktop
environment specific.  The other front ends that I did try for Gnome
didn't work well.  :(  (operator error???)

Jerry Feldman wrote:
> On Tue, 4 May 2004 23:39:13 +0900
> Derek Martin <invalid@...> wrote:
>
>
>>As does Mutt,
>
> As does Sylpheed and Sylpheed Claws.
> Also, there is an API for GNUPG (libgpgme).
>
> It should be trivial to write a GUI for GPG.
>
That's what I hoped you would say!  I was worried about unknown
problems.  Cool.  There shall be one soon.  Thanks for your advice.  -Eric.

--
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

kdjava wrote:

Lets have some POA and schedule. Reading will not take me anywhere
unless and until I start doing some coding. How about dividing things like say:
GUI : Swing
Web : Applets (?), JSP, Servlets.
Application Server : JONAS, JBoss.
What else and we start riping something where everyone can code/help
each other.
kd/

I think you're right. I read tons and code little. Is there something you think we could focus on. Is my GUI for GnuPG too much or not enough? I usually think of desktop needs but is there anything server side that anybody finds interesting to work on? If you're in the mood we could set up a study group if the course materials are easily available. Do you have anything a little more sexy and exciting for us to work on? As more desktop users are getting involved in Linux how about something that protects their interests, an IDS that's easy to use? (unlike tripwire and samhain, which took me a minute to get down)
A media player comes to mind but there's a lot of those already. How about a non profit in need of a dynamic website, we do the whole thing as a gift to them?
I kind of like a GUI for GnuPG or the IDS. But I'm a wacko for security stuff. Kd, or anybody else have any ideas that may be fun? If nobody comes up with anything I'll start on one of the above and post code / ask for help. People could jump on where they desire.
Well, let me know what you think. About half the group voted on the "server" and we seem to leaning towards doing it. I'll provide hardware if needed. Who would like to spearhead this and figure out our objectives / needs? Caffeinated Penguins Server Project Lead opening anybody?
Thanks for any help. KDJAVA's right in my case, I need to start coding.
-Eric.
P.S. - I've just started using Yahoo Messenger (only because my girlfriend likes it) and when I'm online or studying we can chat. eric235u. Their IM client seems to be working pretty well on my Fedora box. I'm online usually in the mornings and evenings.

kdjava wrote:
> Lets have some POA and schedule. Reading will not take me anywhere
> unless and until I start doing some coding.
>
> How about dividing things like say:
>
> GUI  : Swing
> Web : Applets (?), JSP, Servlets.
> Application Server : JONAS, JBoss.
>
> What else and we start riping something where everyone can code/help
> each other.
>
> kd/

I think you're right.  I read tons and code little.  Is there something
you think we could focus on.  Is my GUI for GnuPG too much or not
enough?  I usually think of desktop needs but is there anything server
side that anybody finds interesting to work on?  If you're in the mood
we could set up a study group if the course materials are easily
available.  Do you have anything a little more sexy and exciting for us
to work on?  As more desktop users are getting involved in Linux how
about something that protects their interests, an IDS that's easy to
use? (unlike tripwire and samhain, which took me a minute to get down)
A media player comes to mind but there's a lot of those already.  How
about a non profit in need of a dynamic website, we do the whole thing
as a gift to them?

I kind of like a GUI for GnuPG or the IDS.  But I'm a wacko for security
stuff.  Kd, or anybody else have any ideas that may be fun?  If nobody
comes up with anything I'll start on one of the above and post code /
ask for help.  People could jump on where they desire.

Well, let me know what you think.  About half the group voted on the
"server" and we seem to leaning towards doing it.  I'll provide hardware
if needed.  Who would like to spearhead this and figure out our
objectives / needs?  Caffeinated Penguins Server Project Lead opening
anybody?

Thanks for any help.  KDJAVA's right in my case, I need to start coding.
-Eric.

P.S. -  I've just started using Yahoo Messenger (only because my
girlfriend likes it) and when I'm online or studying we can chat.
eric235u.  Their IM client seems to be working pretty well on my Fedora
box.  I'm online usually in the mornings and evenings.

--
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

Lets have some POA and schedule. Reading will not take me anywhere
unless and until I start doing some coding.

How about dividing things like say:

GUI  : Swing
Web : Applets (?), JSP, Servlets.
Application Server : JONAS, JBoss.

What else and we start riping something where everyone can code/help
each other.

kd/

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
caffeinated_penguins group:

Should we have a server up for the group
to play with?

   o YES.
   o Not sure.
   o Don't care.
   o No server needed.
   o No more polls!


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/caffeinated_penguins/surveys?id=531281

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

I think there's room for a GnuPG GUI that works,

Seahorse is drowning,
http://seahorse.sourceforge.net/

The Gnu Privacy Assistant generally doesn't work.  I tried it a few
months back and it gave me a dependency hell head ache on RedHat 9.

Can't comment on this http://devel-home.kde.org/~kgpg/ as I'm running gnome.

There are plenty of MUA front ends that work.  I just want a nice simple
gui to manage keys, encrypt/decrypt files, etc.  It would be nice if it
worked for across the *nixs.

Is there an easy way to do this?  I see they have GPGME at
http://www.gnupg.org/(en)/related_software/gpgme/index.html. Would I
really need to use this.  I'm not even sure if it works.

I'ld like to have a key manager similar to PGP Corp's personal desktop
product.  Since I am already familiar with using the command line to
interact with GnuPG, couldn't I just whip up a gui to do the same thing,
or is there some hidden complexity lying undiscovered?  Thanks for any
ideas, Eric.

--
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

Anand A Rao wrote:
> I myself  have done some tom cat  installs  and  was pretty simple.
> Have not done one pretty recently.  But  as the apache install itself
> .. Tom cat install is pretty simple.
> -Anand
> K D wrote:
>
>>--- "D.E. Chadbourne" <235u@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Here's the follow up advice from Duane.  I'm going
>>>to do what he says.
>>>-Eric.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>To learn new things I'm always ready. Hey I'm totally
>>uninitiated in java/tomcat but can sit and figure out
>>installation and other things. What I'll do is find
>>out all the tools which are related to tomcat and
>>short notes of each one. Will anyone would be
>>intrested in that. Suggest what else I can do?
>>
>>If you already good at Tomcat then give me some
>>assignment. -:)
>>
>>
>>-kd/.
>>

OK.  What do we want?  With the different ability levels and interests,
how about people pick the projects / responsibilities they desire?  I'm
willing to set up a half decent box for a server at my house.  I have a
dynamic ip so maybe use something like this http://www.dyndns.org/.  So
we could have it running anything we want.  You want to work on using
Creator, make us a web page or something.  I'm still learning the basics
of java and could do little applets or something.  Somebody want to play
with a data base, cool, let me listen in on what you're doing so I can
learn more about it. During the time it takes to do this, one of our
advanced members may think of a cool project or two.  Or maybe somebody
will find something new they like and build on that.  I can handle most
administrative chores or does somebody else want to be root?  So what do
we want on this thing?  Or do we even want it?

I'm still reading tutorials about java (about an hour a day, hoping to
take one of those damn tests in the not too distant future) and think
that doing this in my spare time will be a great chance to learn.  -Eric
--
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

--- "D.E. Chadbourne" <235u@...> wrote:

Here's the follow up advice from Duane. I'm going
to do what he says. -Eric.

To learn new things I'm always ready. Hey I'm totally
uninitiated in java/tomcat but can sit and figure out
installation and other things. What I'll do is find
out all the tools which are related to tomcat and
short notes of each one. Will anyone would be
intrested in that. Suggest what else I can do? If you already good at Tomcat then give me some
assignment. -:)
-kd/.
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--- "D.E. Chadbourne" <235u@...> wrote:
> Here's the follow up advice from Duane.  I'm going
> to do what he says.
> -Eric.

To learn new things I'm always ready. Hey I'm totally
uninitiated in java/tomcat but can sit and figure out
installation and other things. What I'll do is find
out all the tools which are related to tomcat and
short notes of each one. Will anyone would be
intrested in that. Suggest what else I can do?

If you already good at Tomcat then give me some
assignment. -:)


-kd/.








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Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
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Steven wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I also look forward to a list for generalist questions in the Java
> and Linux domain. I've had several of the Sun courses but have not
> tried the certification, and I've had some of the Red Hat courses
> and have completed the RHCT.
That's cool.  I was really thinking about taking the RHCT but the price
scared me off.  I bought the redhat 8 and later the 9 boxed set and just
sat down and read ALL the documentation that came with it.  (using
fedora now)  It was a good general introduction to linux.  I had never
used it before.  (Now I can't stand windows.  I'm not even playing games
on it anymore.)  I really like the way the test is set up, at least
according to the website.  Plop a box in front of me and say fix it.  I
like that.  What did you think of the test?

> Currently I'm taking Jerry Feldman's
> Northeastern class, Linux for the Desktop.
Oh man.  You're so fortunate!  I don't really know him personally (seen
him twice at BLU meetings) but I've read plenty of his emails.  He's a
Big Dog.  I'm out in Quincy just picking up bits of info on my own.
Thank the gods for user groups to give me pointers.  Man, pick his brain!

>
> Although I often read and debug other people's Java code, and I read
> and debug products written in Java, I don't actually spend too much
> time writing Java myself. So I haven't reinforced the language as
> much as I should have.
>
> I am interested in learning more about serverside Java, thinking in
> OO terms, XML tools implemented in Java, and the LAMP methodology
> (although LAMTJ - Linux Apache MySQL Tomcat/Java - would be more
> appropriate here).
I think it would be a blast to slap together a server using LAMTJ.  Have
you done it before?  I've only done some reading and haven't gotten my
hands dirty yet.  I have a couple old computers sitting around the
house, maybe when we get the time we could play with that.  I have a
nice little home LAN (6 computers mostly for my family, wireless and
wired) and it wouldn't be any trouble plugging in another box.  Let me
know what you think.

> Look forward to hearing more.

same here.  -Eric.


--
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

Here's the follow up advice from Duane.  I'm going to do what he says.
-Eric.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: learning java
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:54:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duane Morin <dmorin@...>
To: D.E. Chadbourne <235u@...>
CC: BLU <discuss@...>, <caffeinated_penguins@yahoogroups.com>

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, D.E. Chadbourne wrote:
> pass the test and start making neat little apps for my Linux box.  The
> cert is to help me focus on an objective (I tend to wander around too
> much) and help me get past some HR guy and talk to somebody like you.

Know what would get in the door with us?  Load up Tomcat at home (bonus
points for knowing that there's stuff like Jetty out there) and get some
personal projects going.  We like hearing that you're interested enough
in the topic that it is a personal passion and not just a "Where's the
paycheck" resume building skill.  Motivation and energy count for alot in
my book.  Not cramming and faking it long enough to get the certificate
and then forgetting everything you learned like we all did in high school.

A fun experiment to me would be finding somebody that passed the cert exam
a few months ago and then giving them the test again to see if they
remembered half of what they were tested on :).

   Duane




--
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

>
  >  On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, D.E. Chadbourne wrote:
  >
  >
  >>Hi.  I'm teaching myself Java and will probably get the Sun cert in a
  >>month or two.  NEJUG's meetings are too far away and a lot of "online"
  >>groups didn't feel comfortable to me.  Too specific on some aspect of
  >>Java technology, too large a volume of emails, what ever.  What I wanted
  >>was something just like BLU, but we can yap about Java also.  Since I
  >>couldn't find that, I'm trying to get one started.
  >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/caffeinated_penguins/
  >>If anybody wants come hang out you're more than welcome.
  >>Thanks.  -Eric.
  >>

Duane Morin wrote:
> Which Sun cert are you getting?  There are like 4 levels ranging from "Has
> memorized the esoteric bits of the API that no one uses" to "Can now call
> himself an architect and have a piece of paper on the wall that proves he
> coughed up the dough" (as opposed to everybody else who calls themselves
> architects without the piece of paper :)).  I recommend the "web
> developer" level which seems to be the most practical one.
>
> While I'm sure that getting certified is a good way to prove to yourself
> that you've reached a milestone in learning the language, I hope you're
> not investing lots of money.  My company is hiring good Java people as
> fast as we can find them and I can honestly say that certification has not
> made a lick of difference in anybody's situation thus far.   Maybe if you
> want to target some big financial enterprises or something, sure, but
> we're just a small company that wants people that can code (and we're
> gonna ask you the same technical questions whether you claim to be
> certified or not :)).
>
> Duane
>

I was thinking to go get this one as seems to cover fundamentals and
it's not expensive.
http://suned.sun.com/US/catalog/courses/CX-310-035.html
Then provide my own home brew code to possible employers as an example
of ability.  I've read through (twice) a Sams "teach yourself Java 2 in
21 days", but I don't think they're using earth days. :)  now I'm half
way through the Sun "trails" and I'm really focusing on working out all
the examples and problems.  I think in under two months I'll be able to
pass the test and start making neat little apps for my Linux box.  The
cert is to help me focus on an objective (I tend to wander around too
much) and help me get past some HR guy and talk to somebody like you.

I bet folks on the list are glad to hear you're hiring.
Thanks for your advice,  -Eric.

--
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

Hi.  I really like what you all have said.  Now some cut and paste:

> hi Eric ,
>
>    Nice to be in a smaller group  that likes  Java.  I myself used to
> work on a decent bit of java a couple of years back and  never  got a
> chance to get on to it at my current job.  But woould love to jump on
> the bandwagon Any day.
>
> Cheers
> Andy

That's the additude I was hoping for!  I bet you could really help
myself and others.  Let's play with some Java.


> I am interested in learning more about serverside Java, thinking in
> OO terms, XML tools implemented in Java, and the LAMP methodology
> (although LAMTJ - Linux Apache MySQL Tomcat/Java - would be more
> appropriate here).
>
> Look forward to hearing more.
>
> Steven

My original interest in Java sprung up a few months back. I think
there's plenty of room for a young Java programmer who prefers Linux to
have fun and create some interesting apps.  I have a couple ideas to
explore as soon as I feel my skill level is up to par.  So I'm trying to
really put my nose to the grindstone and take advantage of this.  You
seem to be pretty knowledgeable and enthusiastic.  I hope we can feed
off each other and become much better at what we want to do.


> I have been trying to learn and get certificate in Java from last
> couple of months but yet not manged to start reading it.  I do coding
> on linux in C, MPICH, perl and little bit of PHP. I also know a good
> bit of networking like diskless setup and stuff like that. But coming
> from C to java is not happening and I need push and help.
>
> So guys what say? Can any one help, guide.
>
> -kd

Wow, you're coming from a solid base.  I bet you'll be off and running
in no time.  Well, our group site has a chat feature (written in Java of
course) and we could set up times to yap some and help each other out.
What do you think?  This may be helpful for those of you taking similar
classes at the same time.  Check out my next email about tests and some
of the discussion at BLU.


Well, so far I see enthusiasm, ability and friendliness.  This little
group may work out.  :)  -Eric.


--
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

Hi.  Just thought I'ld pass part of this discussion along.  -Eric



On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Adam Russell wrote:

  >> Just curious, what sort of technical questions do you ask candidates
for java positions?


Ok, I'll get into this if people promise not to jump on every last
question and say "What? You'd not hire me because of THAT?  You suck".
We gotta think big picture here, people.  I like to think of these
questions as "poking stick" questions.  You poke aruond, and when you find
what looks like a gap, you then have an avenue to pursue.

Also, of course there's no consistency.  I've seen places where you get a
written exam.  We don't do that. I ask the questions I think are gonna
give me the kind of reading I want.  The guys that come after me ask
different questions.

Random sampling of questions...

* Can you tell me what constitutes a well-formed XML file?  (Since I got
so much arugment over the 'triviality' of this question I changed it to
drawing a bad XML file on paper and asking people to tell me why it is a
bad XML file)

* When working with servlets, what's the difference between a redirect and
a forward?  What is a servlet filter and how is it different from a
servlet forward?

* Given a primitive such as an int or long, write some real code to count
the number of bits that are set.  This is one of my favorite questions,
because there are a variety of creative ways to go about it just from a
problem solving perspective, and you can also talk about different ways to
optimize it (for size/speed).  Sure, the problem as described is trivial,
but it's a toy problem.  And if somebody says "Wow, that's dumb..." then
I've already laerned more about their attitude than I need to know ;).
One of the best answers I ever got was somebody that told me three
different ways to answer it, the pros and cons of each, and then chose
one and wrote that.

* Reverse a singly-linked list.

* I have a list of several million strings, but I know that there are only
about 100k unique ones.  I want to make myself a frequency table that
tells me how often each string occurred.  Write me a data structure to do
it.  Everybody makes a hashmap, which is fine, but most people end up
creating several million Integer objects when it can be done by only
creating 100k.

* Crawl all the HREFs out of a given HTML file.

* Tell me about the differences between Vectors and arrays and examples of
when each might be useful.

* How would you implement an LRU cache?


If I ask somebody to write code it is always for a 'toy' problem that can
be easily encapsulated and written in like 10 minutes.  It's always
interesting to see people who claim to write Java every day get flustered
over some pretty basic stuff.  And I'm not talking about memorizing the
API (although I'd like to think that everybody knows how to get/put a
hashmap), I"m talking about Java syntax like this:

	 boolean table[arr.length];
	 for (int i =0; i < table.length; i++) {
		 table[i] = false;
	 }

That's wrong and redundant, btw. :)  Or this:

	 if (map.contains(s)) {
		 map.put(map.get(s)++);
	 }

which is wrong in more than just a "not memorizing the API" way.



Hope that was interesting to you.  I get nervous when this subject comes
up because it always turns into a flame war over what is ok to ask and
what's useful or not.  I wasn't kidding when I joked that "If I need to
know that I can look it up on google" is a very common response.  By that
logic I could do brain surgery but nobody seems to be willing to write me
a paycheck.

Duane


--
http://235u.home.comcast.net/

Hi,

I'm assuming that everyone of us wants to learn java and may be do a
java certification.  I'll really appreciate if someone can guide and
help me in doing same, may be with concepts, questions and problems. I
would even suggest if we can come up with some execution plan for
study questions. Wouldn't that  be great for every one.  Can we setup
some time when everyone can be online  and help each other.  I'm just
ranting and I'm thinking something like group study where every one
discusses what they read/understood with one goal of passing java cert.

I have been trying to learn and get certificate in Java from last
couple of months but yet not manged to start reading it.  I do coding
on linux in C, MPICH, perl and little bit of PHP. I also know a good
bit of networking like diskless setup and stuff like that. But coming
from C to java is not happening and I need push and help.

So guys what say? Can any one help, guide.

-kd

Hello,

I also look forward to a list for generalist questions in the Java
and Linux domain.  I've had several of the Sun courses but have not
tried the certification, and I've had some of the Red Hat courses
and have completed the RHCT.  Currently I'm taking Jerry Feldman's
Northeastern class, Linux for the Desktop.

Although I often read and debug other people's Java code, and I read
and debug products written in Java, I don't actually spend too much
time writing Java myself. So I haven't reinforced the language as
much as I should have.

I am interested in learning more about serverside Java, thinking in
OO terms, XML tools implemented in Java, and the LAMP methodology
(although LAMTJ - Linux Apache MySQL Tomcat/Java - would be more
appropriate here).

Look forward to hearing more.

Steven

hi Eric ,

    Nice to be in a smaller group  that likes  Java.  I myself used to
work on a decent bit of java a couple of years back and  never  got a
chance to get on to it at my current job.  But woould love to jump on
the bandwagon Any day.

Cheers
Andy

Hello.  I'm glad you stopped by.  Hopefully this will become a place
where Java enthusiasts can share information and assist each other.  I
am just beginning my study of the language and I'm finding it to be a
lot of fun.  If you have any ideas on how to make this better please let
me know.

I look forward to emailing with you.  -Eric.