On the subject of RFID, I have a free subscription to the RFID
Journal. It comes as a weekly e-mail and discusses developements in
the RFID field. It is actually quite interesting. I think that their
web address is www.rfidjournal.com - You might want to check it out.
Lots of stuff seems to be going on with endless applications. Security
and inventory control seems to be just the beginning of the
possibilities. Like you, Bill, I think that there are still a number
of problems to work out but, if they can solve the size, power and
cost of the tags, I think that it will be all over the place before
long. As long as it is used basically for products, it should be fine.
However, whenever anyone mentions it for use in tracking prople within
a building for instance,then a gang of privacy issues surface.

I am not sure who "we" are.  Are you a representative of the RFID
industry? In any event, security and identity theft are the major
concerns that I know of and there doesn't appear to a resolution
yet. I have e-mailed Howard Moster to learn what he presented to
ASIS.

In industry there  is product pull and product push. I get the
impression that in the case of RFID and in some desparation to
resolve certain throughput issues that we are facing "push" and that
we will see a questionably adequate "security and privacy" product
that will be marketed with the expectation that, once market share
is gained, the improvements will exist.

Hugh

--- In cansecurity@yahoogroups.com, "Romeo Marsico" <romeo@n...>
wrote:
> Bill / Fergus,
>
>
>
> I believe that what we got will do both 100% of the time.
>
> Inventory and security control.
>
>
>
>
>
> Romeo Marsico
>
> Nasa Technologies Inc.
>
> (514)977-7230
>
> www.nasa.ca
>
>    _____
>
> From: cansecurity@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:cansecurity@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Bill
> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:15 AM
> To: cansecurity@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cansecurity] Re: RFID & The Security Industry
>
>
>
> The major players are investing in the tags...not for
security..but for
> inventory control....if it works the Wal-Marts of the world will
be able to
> reduce their staff by about 40%. The most time consuming task is
taking
> inventory, replenishment is usually done in the evenings..... the
security
> factor is a small bonus......but to be abale to locate and
invintory the
> product via rf...is cost saving
>
>
>
> Bill
>
> "Fergus V. Keyes" <fergusk35@y...> wrote:
>
> Bill; I agree that it is not 100% at this point. But it would seem
> that there are a lot of companies (i.e Wal Mart) that are
investing
> time and money on improving RFID . I know you have a great deal
more
> experience in retail security than I have, but it would seem to me
> that when products go missing, there are only a few possible
causes.
> Internal or External theft; or Poor paperwork and/or poor
inventory
> control. It would appear that RFID will be able to at least
> determine the cause of shrinkage for a specific item. The system
> should be able to determine if the product arrived at the
warehouse;
> if it was transferred to the retail location, and when, or if, it
> was sold. This information (if it is reasonably accurate), could
> help direct Security resources to an actual problem. Was it
stolden
> or just misplaced?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In cansecurity@yahoogroups.com, Bill <wdtcan@y...> wrote:
> > The technology is not 100% secure...it has a lot of down falls
> which are inherent in tags, but as a control tag, it has a lot of
> good dimensions. The applications will be what sells the
> concept...but to secure an item...it is only 40 to 60 % effective
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > hughandrew2003 <hughandrew@c...> wrote:
> > --- In cansecurity@yahoogroups.com, "Fergus V. Keyes"
> <fergusk35@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > Although RFID has been designed for Inventory Control, does
> anyone
> > > have any opinion on how this technolgy will affect the
Security
> > > Business?
> >
> > This is an interesting topic over which there is considerable
> debate.
> > I note that Howard Moster of Edmonton was to give a presentation
> at
> > the ASIS show on this last week. Howards e-mail is
> > hmoster@p...
> >
> > I'd like to hear views and experiences on this as well.
> >
> > Hugh
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Computer internet security Computer business Securities industry
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >     Visit your group "cansecurity" on the web.
> >
> >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  cansecurity-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>    _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> *  Visit your group "HYPERLINK
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19/9/2005

Bill; I agree that it is not 100% at this point. But it would seem
that there are a lot of companies (i.e Wal Mart) that are investing
time and money on improving RFID . I know you have a great deal more
experience in retail security than I have, but it would seem to me
that when products go missing, there are only a few possible causes.
Internal or External theft; or Poor paperwork and/or poor inventory
control. It would appear that RFID will be able to at least
determine the cause of shrinkage for a specific item. The system
should be able to determine if the product arrived at the warehouse;
if it was transferred to the retail location, and when, or if, it
was sold. This information (if it is reasonably accurate), could
help direct Security resources to an actual problem. Was it stolden
or just misplaced? 










--- In cansecurity@yahoogroups.com, Bill <wdtcan@y...> wrote:
> The technology is not 100% secure...it has a lot of down falls
which are inherent in tags, but as a control tag, it has a lot of
good dimensions. The applications will be what sells the
concept...but to secure an item...it is only 40 to 60 % effective
> 
> Bill
>
> hughandrew2003 <hughandrew@c...> wrote:
> --- In cansecurity@yahoogroups.com, "Fergus V. Keyes"
<fergusk35@y...>
> wrote:
> > Although RFID has been designed for Inventory Control, does
anyone
> > have any opinion on how this technolgy will affect the Security
> > Business?
>
> This is an interesting topic over which there is considerable
debate.
> I note that Howard Moster of Edmonton was to give a presentation
at
> the ASIS show on this last week. Howards e-mail is
> hmoster@p...
>
> I'd like to hear views and experiences on this as well.
>
> Hugh
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Computer internet security Computer business Securities industry
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>     Visit your group "cansecurity" on the web.
>  
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  cansecurity-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------

Bill; I agree that it is not 100% at this point. But it would seem
that there are a lot of companies (i.e Wal Mart) that are investing
time and money on improving RFID . I know you have a great deal more
experience in retail security than I have, but it would seem to me
that when products go missing, there are only a few possible causes.
Internal or External theft; or Poor paperwork and/or poor inventory
control. It would appear that RFID will be able to at least
determine the cause of shrinkage for a specific item. The system
should be able to determine if the product arrived at the warehouse;
if it was transferred to the retail location, and when, or if, it
was sold. This information (if it is reasonably accurate), could
help direct Security resources to an actual problem. Was it stolden
or just misplaced?










--- In cansecurity@yahoogroups.com, Bill <wdtcan@y...> wrote:
> The technology is not 100% secure...it has a lot of down falls
which are inherent in tags, but as a control tag, it has a lot of
good dimensions. The applications will be what sells the
concept...but to secure an item...it is only 40 to 60 % effective
>
> Bill
>
> hughandrew2003 <hughandrew@c...> wrote:
> --- In cansecurity@yahoogroups.com, "Fergus V. Keyes"
<fergusk35@y...>
> wrote:
> > Although RFID has been designed for Inventory Control, does
anyone
> > have any opinion on how this technolgy will affect the Security
> > Business?
>
> This is an interesting topic over which there is considerable
debate.
> I note that Howard Moster of Edmonton was to give a presentation
at
> the ASIS show on this last week. Howards e-mail is
> hmoster@p...
>
> I'd like to hear views and experiences on this as well.
>
> Hugh
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Computer internet security Computer business Securities industry
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>     Visit your group "cansecurity" on the web.
>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  cansecurity-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------

--- In cansecurity@yahoogroups.com, "Fergus V. Keyes" <fergusk35@y...>
wrote:
> Although RFID has been designed for Inventory Control, does anyone
> have any opinion on how this technolgy will affect the Security
> Business?

This is an interesting topic over which there is considerable debate.
I note that Howard Moster of Edmonton was to give a presentation at
the ASIS show on this last week. Howards e-mail is
hmoster@...

I'd like to hear views and experiences on this as well.

Hugh

We always seem to have to writeoff a lot of quad wire from our
invetory. What does the group normally consider an acceptable write
off for wire or inventory in general?

How do you think that gas prices will affect the Security Industry?
Much of our business is related to transport, since we generally bring
our goods & services (Alarm & Security Installations; Guard Services
etc.) directly to the customer's location. And to bring these services
to a location, means that we need to use a variety of vehicles (cars,
Vans, Boom Trucks etc.)  In Montreal today, the price is at $ 1.35 per
liter average …So, it can be expensive to deliver products and
services to a site, or even to visit a potential customer on sales
calls, or to do a survey etc.  Of course, large carriers like UPS
etc., add a surcharge to their invoice as the gas costs increase, so
shipping product also becomes more expensive. We're already in a very
competitive price business so even just some slight added costs as a
result of these gas prices, can change the real margins at the end of
day. Any comments?

Just a reminder that the next Security Canada (CANASA) Trade Show is
scheduled for Toronto from October 18th to October 20th 2005. As
usual, this event takes place at the Toronto Congress Centre - 650
Dixon Road. For more detailed information on how to register, a list
of exhibitors; etc., you can visit the canasa web page at
www.canasa.org

--- In cansecurity@yahoogroups.com, "Fergus V. Keyes" <fergusk35@y...>
wrote:
> Romeo; Thanks for your comments. I am not really sure which "hot"
> topics you feel should be questioned. Since this is a new group with
> only 11 members to date, I am not really sure how it will develope.
> But, of course, please do suggest topics or issues that you would be
> interested in discussing with other people in the Canadian security
> industry. The objective of the group is to build a membership of
> Security people from coast to coast, and to exchange and debate issues
> that directly or indirectly concern our industry. It is my opinion
> that a dialogue on these issues will benefit everyone.

Agreed.

SP & T News has a very interesting article on the never ending debate
in our Industry about False Alarms. The article is entitled "Loud &
Clear". (I have also added a link to the SP & T web site to
the "Links" area)

The fast response of the Emergency services, in and around Pearson
Airport yesterday, demonstrated, once again, that training for
emergency situations pays off.  There was no warning that the Air
France plane would crash, so only their training prepared them to act –
and act fast. Great job!

Romeo; Thanks for your comments. I am not really sure which "hot"
topics you feel should be questioned. Since this is a new group with
only 11 members to date, I am not really sure how it will develope.
But, of course, please do suggest topics or issues that you would be
interested in discussing with other people in the Canadian security
industry. The objective of the group is to build a membership of
Security people from coast to coast, and to exchange and debate issues
that directly or indirectly concern our industry. It is my opinion
that a dialogue on these issues will benefit everyone.

Ferg,

I'm glad you got it going,
A word of caution, as a moderator, maybe you should refrain from super
hot topics and try to keep some guide lines to the true objective of
the forum is.

The other group i belong to the subject got out of hand and some
members had to be cancelled.

Although we are not yet an international group, we could be shortly.

Cheers.

Romeo.



--- In cansecurity@yahoogroups.com, "Fergus V. Keyes" <fergusk35@y...>
wrote:
> London has been attacked again. Luckily, the initial reports
indicate
> very few, if any, casualties. Even with the heightened security in
the
> city, it would appear that person(s) unknown were still able
to "copy
> cat" the subway & bus bombings of exactly two weeks ago. Even with
> minimum physical injuries, who can measure the psychological fear
> effect on the average London resident? Is there any way, at all, to
> protect against these types of attacks in a democratic country, that
> allows full freedom of movement to their citizens?

We can help. We are a professional M&A firm that represents small to
mid-size companies in the services industry, in particular security
companies. We are a member of CANASA.

There is no up front cost to retain us - we only receive a fee if you
successfully conclude a  sell transaction. To contact us, simply
email us at info@....

We'd be happy to speak with you further to talk about our services
and to discuss the current acquisition activity in the industry. It
could prove to be the most profitable contact you make.

Please visit our website - www.regelle.com

Also if you are interested in buying another security company or
security accounts, let us know and we will add you to our database of
buyers - info@...

thanks

London has been attacked again. Luckily, the initial reports indicate
very few, if any, casualties. Even with the heightened security in the
city, it would appear that person(s) unknown were still able to "copy
cat" the subway & bus bombings of exactly two weeks ago. Even with
minimum physical injuries, who can measure the psychological fear
effect on the average London resident? Is there any way, at all, to
protect against these types of attacks in a democratic country, that
allows full freedom of movement to their citizens?

I think things need to be put into perspective when dealing with the
possibility of attack.

For Canada and canadians to take the approach that the americans did
would be counterproductive to the fight against terrorism.  We all
know that the objective of terrorists in its simplist terms is to
create terror.

If we had taken the same approach as the americans we would be
playing straight into their hands.

I don't think canadians are complacent, I think we are much better
informed as a public body than the americans.

All we need to do from our side is to ensure that our clients,
supervisors, boards and anyone else you report to are as informed as
possible on the effects on your specific industry and provide them
with the tools to cope and recover if an attack occurs.

It is also my understanding that the part of the privacy act that
covers the use of cameras in public areas is or will be under review
as a result of the attacks in the UK.

--- In cansecurity@yahoogroups.com, Bill <wdtcan@y...> wrote:
> The reason for this I truly believe, is that-- what one does not
know, one can not criticizes, thus the poor work that public
authority provides, goes unchallenged.
>
> A prime example is what Canada did for post 9/11, they budgeted the
majority of its emergency expenditure in Airport Security, but very
little in ground transport, there are more Canadians affected by
ground transport then by Air....but the Public appeasement was for
air traffic security due to 9/11.
>
> In Mississauga back many years ago, more people were effected by
the train derailment, then 9/11, granted that there were no or little
loss of life, but the long term contamination had greater impact then
NY. What has Transport Canada done to protect Canadians from this
type of potential threat, and the greater potential target of
commuter trains.
>
> We are so vulnerable, and due to our attitudes, we can not even
perform post investigations in a fashion that would be very fast and
accurate...like that of the Brits., we have very little video
coverage, and what we do have, is in a state of disrepair that for
investigative purposes, it would be useless.
>
> Bill Twerdun
>
> "Fergus V. Keyes" <fergusk35@y...> wrote:
> Hi Bill...You made some very good, legitimate points. For some
reason,
> Canadian authorities seem to believe that the Public should not be
> made aware of threats. They do behave in a parental fashion in
trying
> to keep bad news away from the Public - like you would do in order
not
> to scare little kids.
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Computer internet security Computer business Securities industry
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>     Visit your group "cansecurity" on the web.
>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  cansecurity-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------

Hi Bill...You made some very good, legitimate points. For some reason,
Canadian authorities seem to believe that the Public should not be
made aware of threats. They do behave in a parental fashion in trying
to keep bad news away from the Public - like you would do in order not
to scare little kids.

Dan;….You are absolutely right. After almost 40 years in this
business, I always find it bizarre that so many companies, and
individuals, in Canada, have such a poor attitude toward contingency
planning of any kind. Not only, as you mention, are terrorist threats
ignored, it always amazes me that there is often no plan for even
basic possible disasters - like fires and floods. You don't have to be
a "news junkie" to hear and see all the warning signs, for the next
decade at least, concerns possible terrorism attacks and changing
weather patterns.  In both cases, a proper contingency plan, makes it
possible to at least minimize the levels of deaths; injuries and
property damage that can be caused by either a terrorist attack or a
major destructive weather pattern hitting a heavily populated area. So
many Canadians feel that we are somehow immune to any of these real
type of disasters, in our country, that it is actually scary.

I work for an American owned company in Ottawa and I sometimes find the
lack of concern disturbing.

When I first started in my role as Manager of Security Operations I
asked if, in the event of an increase in the alert level in the States,
what contingincies were in place. I was told none.

I found that quite strange.



--- In cansecurity@yahoogroups.com, "hdbsqec" <hdbsqec@y...> wrote:
> --- In cansecurity@yahoogroups.com, "Fergus V. Keyes"
> <fergusk35@y...>
> wrote:
> > As a member of the Security Industry, do you think that Canada will
> > suffer a terrorist attack in the near future?
>
> I think that Canada is a potential target and we need to highten both
> awareness and security measures now. We tend to be more laid back and
> reactive which could result in many Canadians being injured in an
> attack that is quite possible. Take the Toronto or Montreal transit
> system which is very light in security and severely congested on a
> good day, what are we doing to prevent this from being a potential
> target? We issued memos to the staff to be more aware! Makes me
> nervous.........just some thoughts.
>
> -D

Although RFID has been designed for Inventory Control, does anyone
have any opinion on how this technolgy will affect the Security
Business?

London, England has been installing CCTV systems around the city for
years. Not only in locations like the subway, but on many city streets
and other public areas. It would seem that these cameras definitely
helped the British Authorities to quickly identify the bombers, from
the recent terrorist attack. There was a case some time ago in
Sherbrooke, Quebec where the city installed cameras on the main street
and monitored it back at their police station. However some action was
taken that forced the city to stop recording from these cameras. If I
remember right, they could review the cameras, but simply not record
the activities. Of course in London, it would not have helped them if
the cameras had not been recorded. Do you think that Canadians should
now allow CCTV installations on the main streets of our cities - and
have the activities recorded?

--- In cansecurity@yahoogroups.com, "Fergus V. Keyes"
<fergusk35@y...>
wrote:
> As a member of the Security Industry, do you think that Canada will
> suffer a terrorist attack in the near future?

I think that Canada is a potential target and we need to highten both
awareness and security measures now. We tend to be more laid back and
reactive which could result in many Canadians being injured in an
attack that is quite possible. Take the Toronto or Montreal transit
system which is very light in security and severely congested on a
good day, what are we doing to prevent this from being a potential
target? We issued memos to the staff to be more aware! Makes me
nervous.........just some thoughts.

-D

As a member of the Security Industry, do you think that Canada will
suffer a terrorist attack in the near future?

Thank you for visiting the Canadian Security Group. The objective is
to start a dialogue between all members of the Professional Security
Industry in Canada. Please feel free to post your comments. Our
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