Ron,

I don't know exactly who is on your subscriber list, but I do know that
there a lot of experts (plus a large number of wanna be's) out here. If I
were you, I'd try posting partials for a while and see if the feedback is
worth your time. You might get some good input that makes your job easier.
On the other hand, you might stimulate questions that you may or may not
wish to deal with. Either way, it's probably worth a try, but the bottom
line is set it up to your advantage...we'll all benefit in the long run!

press on!
Michael Clary
tricomp1@...


on 7/9/00 9:37 PM, Ron Wodaski at ronw@... wrote:

> I made good progress on chapter 6 this weekend. This new chapter covers dark
> frames, flat fields, and other techniques for controlling noise in your
> images. I'd like to know if anyone is interested in viewing the early
> versions/partial versions of chapters, or whether I should wait until the
> chapter is done and checked for errors before I post it to the web site. It
> normally takes a couple of weeks to finish a chapter, and another few days
> to convert it to web format. If I post intermediate sections, I might be
> better able to respond to special requests from subscribers, too. What do
> you think?
>
> Ron Wodaski
> http://www.newastro.com

Hi Ron:

I think your material is just wonderful and would love to see what is next.
  I have learned so much from the first chapter on focus - I am "hungry" for
more.  Please post what you have!!!

Thank you for writing this book,

Steve




At 09:37 PM 7/9/00 -0700, you wrote:
>I made good progress on chapter 6 this weekend. This new chapter covers dark
>frames, flat fields, and other techniques for controlling noise in your
>images. I'd like to know if anyone is interested in viewing the early
>versions/partial versions of chapters, or whether I should wait until the
>chapter is done and checked for errors before I post it to the web site. It
>normally takes a couple of weeks to finish a chapter, and another few days
>to convert it to web format. If I post intermediate sections, I might be
>better able to respond to special requests from subscribers, too. What do
>you think?
>
>Ron Wodaski
>http://www.newastro.com
>
>
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>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>

I made good progress on chapter 6 this weekend. This new chapter covers dark
frames, flat fields, and other techniques for controlling noise in your
images. I'd like to know if anyone is interested in viewing the early
versions/partial versions of chapters, or whether I should wait until the
chapter is done and checked for errors before I post it to the web site. It
normally takes a couple of weeks to finish a chapter, and another few days
to convert it to web format. If I post intermediate sections, I might be
better able to respond to special requests from subscribers, too. What do
you think?

Ron Wodaski
http://www.newastro.com

Excellent response!  It really helped a lot.  I suggest you include
something similar in your book.

Jack Patterson

----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Wodaski <ronw@...>
To: <ccd-newastro@Egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 6:43 PM
Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro] Comet LINEAR image showing structure


> The neat thing about astrophotography, and CCD imaging in particular, is
> that there are usually multiple ways to look at the data. The situation
you
> mention below is a good example -- there are different ways to present the
> information in my collection of comet images. They are all different
slices
> of the truth, each emphasizing something different. I think it's useful to
> think of the images not as images, but as a collection of data that can be
> viewed using various approaches or filters.
>
> Here are some examples of what I could do with the data I collected that
> night:
>
> * I could post each of the individual images separately, and they could be
> examined for differences. I could even mathematically combined them --
> subtract one image from the next, for example, leaving behind only what
has
> changed between the two images. If there were a subtle outgassing, this
> should show it to us even if the eye could not pick it up amid all the
other
> things flying out of the comet. This emphasizes change in the comet.
>
> * I could animate the images, showing the movement of the comet against
the
> starry background. Alternatively, I could animate the image so that the
> comet is stationary, and the stars appear to move! <g> This emphasizes the
> dynamic nature of the comet's motion.
>
> * I could combine the seven images by averaging (or taking the median) of
> the pixel values. This would nearly eliminate the stars from the images,
> leaving just the comet. This emphasizes the comet's appearance averaged
over
> time.
>
> * I could add the images together, adding all the pixel values, to help
> reveal subtle details in the comet. As you point out, this would mask any
> subtle changes over time, but would show subtle non-dynamic features more
> clearly. This technique emphasizes stable but subtle features.
>
> * I could adjust the brightness, contrast, and gamma settings to show
> details at various levels of brightness, using single or combined images
as
> appropriate. The image I posted emphasizes subtle structural brightness
> variations, but I also could crank up the brightness to emphasize any
> details in the comet's dimmer tail section.
>
> So it's really a matter of personal preference and interest. Or, one can
> play with all of these approaches to see which, at any given time, produce
> the most interesting results. In the image I posted, the interesting part
> was the structural details. A week from now, the interesting thing might
be,
> say, the length of the tail, and I would use different techniques to bring
> that out.
>
> Part of what you learn doing astrophotography is the relationships between
> photographic technique and the underlying data. Each image has it's own
> unique set of data in it, and knowing how to use a variety of techniques
> makes it possible for the imager to emphasize the most interesting data in
a
> given image. The average CCD raw image contains much more information than
> the human eye can digest in one view, and it often is possible to present
> the data in different ways.
>
> Ron Wodaski
>
>
>
> Ron Wodaski
> http://www.newastro.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Patterson [mailto:jpatters@...]
> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 4:03 PM
> To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Comet LINEAR image showing structure
>
>
> Ron, I like your comet image with its detail a lot more than others I've
> seen which are usually animations.  And it started me thinking about
what's
> considered "proper" in the world of astro imaging.  I don't really know
> since I'm new to this.  What if you removed the duplicate stars to make a

> more realistic image?   Would that be proper?  If not, what about the
> stacked comet images themselves.  A comet is not static, it changes in
> appearance depending on where it's located in relation to heat sources.
So,
> stacked images could conceivably show a different image than what was
> actually there at any given time, although not likely in a short period.
I
> was just wondering what you might think.
> Thanks,
> Jack Patterson
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ron Wodaski <ronw@...>
> To: <ccd-newastro@egroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:05 AM
> Subject: [ccd-newastro] Comet LINEAR image showing structure
>
>
> > I have uploaded an image of Comet LINEAR 1999/S4 to the File section
> > of ccd-newastro:
> >
> > http://www.egroups.com/files/ccd-
> > newastro/CCD+Gallery/Linear_S4_July_6.jpg
> >
> > The image is a composite of seven separate one-minute images. The
> > individual images were calibrated, aligned on the comet's nucleus,
> > and summed in Maxim/DL.
> >
> > The image shows some nice detail in the vicinity of the nucleus.
> > There appears to be a leading bulb of ions or dust, as well as a
> > pronounced "shockwave" of denser dust streaming out from the nucleus.
> > The tail is shown to be denser (or at least brighter) on the south
> > side (left side of the image).
> >
> > The comet is moving fairly quickly, as you can see from the distance
> > between the star images -- the images are little more than a minute
> > apart in most cases.
> >
> > Ron Wodaski
> >

The neat thing about astrophotography, and CCD imaging in particular, is
that there are usually multiple ways to look at the data. The situation you
mention below is a good example -- there are different ways to present the
information in my collection of comet images. They are all different slices
of the truth, each emphasizing something different. I think it's useful to
think of the images not as images, but as a collection of data that can be
viewed using various approaches or filters.

Here are some examples of what I could do with the data I collected that
night:

* I could post each of the individual images separately, and they could be
examined for differences. I could even mathematically combined them --
subtract one image from the next, for example, leaving behind only what has
changed between the two images. If there were a subtle outgassing, this
should show it to us even if the eye could not pick it up amid all the other
things flying out of the comet. This emphasizes change in the comet.

* I could animate the images, showing the movement of the comet against the
starry background. Alternatively, I could animate the image so that the
comet is stationary, and the stars appear to move! <g> This emphasizes the
dynamic nature of the comet's motion.

* I could combine the seven images by averaging (or taking the median) of
the pixel values. This would nearly eliminate the stars from the images,
leaving just the comet. This emphasizes the comet's appearance averaged over
time.

* I could add the images together, adding all the pixel values, to help
reveal subtle details in the comet. As you point out, this would mask any
subtle changes over time, but would show subtle non-dynamic features more
clearly. This technique emphasizes stable but subtle features.

* I could adjust the brightness, contrast, and gamma settings to show
details at various levels of brightness, using single or combined images as
appropriate. The image I posted emphasizes subtle structural brightness
variations, but I also could crank up the brightness to emphasize any
details in the comet's dimmer tail section.

So it's really a matter of personal preference and interest. Or, one can
play with all of these approaches to see which, at any given time, produce
the most interesting results. In the image I posted, the interesting part
was the structural details. A week from now, the interesting thing might be,
say, the length of the tail, and I would use different techniques to bring
that out.

Part of what you learn doing astrophotography is the relationships between
photographic technique and the underlying data. Each image has it's own
unique set of data in it, and knowing how to use a variety of techniques
makes it possible for the imager to emphasize the most interesting data in a
given image. The average CCD raw image contains much more information than
the human eye can digest in one view, and it often is possible to present
the data in different ways.

Ron Wodaski



Ron Wodaski
http://www.newastro.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Patterson [mailto:jpatters@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 4:03 PM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Comet LINEAR image showing structure


Ron, I like your comet image with its detail a lot more than others I've
seen which are usually animations.  And it started me thinking about what's
considered "proper" in the world of astro imaging.  I don't really know
since I'm new to this.  What if you removed the duplicate stars to make a
more realistic image?   Would that be proper?  If not, what about the
stacked comet images themselves.  A comet is not static, it changes in
appearance depending on where it's located in relation to heat sources.  So,
stacked images could conceivably show a different image than what was
actually there at any given time, although not likely in a short period.  I
was just wondering what you might think.
Thanks,
Jack Patterson

----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Wodaski <ronw@...>
To: <ccd-newastro@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:05 AM
Subject: [ccd-newastro] Comet LINEAR image showing structure


> I have uploaded an image of Comet LINEAR 1999/S4 to the File section
> of ccd-newastro:
>
> http://www.egroups.com/files/ccd-
> newastro/CCD+Gallery/Linear_S4_July_6.jpg
>
> The image is a composite of seven separate one-minute images. The
> individual images were calibrated, aligned on the comet's nucleus,
> and summed in Maxim/DL.
>
> The image shows some nice detail in the vicinity of the nucleus.
> There appears to be a leading bulb of ions or dust, as well as a
> pronounced "shockwave" of denser dust streaming out from the nucleus.
> The tail is shown to be denser (or at least brighter) on the south
> side (left side of the image).
>
> The comet is moving fairly quickly, as you can see from the distance
> between the star images -- the images are little more than a minute
> apart in most cases.
>
> Ron Wodaski
>



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Ron, I like your comet image with its detail a lot more than others I've
seen which are usually animations.  And it started me thinking about what's
considered "proper" in the world of astro imaging.  I don't really know
since I'm new to this.  What if you removed the duplicate stars to make a
more realistic image?   Would that be proper?  If not, what about the
stacked comet images themselves.  A comet is not static, it changes in
appearance depending on where it's located in relation to heat sources.  So,
stacked images could conceivably show a different image than what was
actually there at any given time, although not likely in a short period.  I
was just wondering what you might think.
Thanks,
Jack Patterson

----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Wodaski <ronw@...>
To: <ccd-newastro@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:05 AM
Subject: [ccd-newastro] Comet LINEAR image showing structure


> I have uploaded an image of Comet LINEAR 1999/S4 to the File section
> of ccd-newastro:
>
> http://www.egroups.com/files/ccd-
> newastro/CCD+Gallery/Linear_S4_July_6.jpg
>
> The image is a composite of seven separate one-minute images. The
> individual images were calibrated, aligned on the comet's nucleus,
> and summed in Maxim/DL.
>
> The image shows some nice detail in the vicinity of the nucleus.
> There appears to be a leading bulb of ions or dust, as well as a
> pronounced "shockwave" of denser dust streaming out from the nucleus.
> The tail is shown to be denser (or at least brighter) on the south
> side (left side of the image).
>
> The comet is moving fairly quickly, as you can see from the distance
> between the star images -- the images are little more than a minute
> apart in most cases.
>
> Ron Wodaski
>

I have uploaded an image of Comet LINEAR 1999/S4 to the File section
of ccd-newastro:

http://www.egroups.com/files/ccd-
newastro/CCD+Gallery/Linear_S4_July_6.jpg

The image is a composite of seven separate one-minute images. The
individual images were calibrated, aligned on the comet's nucleus,
and summed in Maxim/DL.

The image shows some nice detail in the vicinity of the nucleus.
There appears to be a leading bulb of ions or dust, as well as a
pronounced "shockwave" of denser dust streaming out from the nucleus.
The tail is shown to be denser (or at least brighter) on the south
side (left side of the image).

The comet is moving fairly quickly, as you can see from the distance
between the star images -- the images are little more than a minute
apart in most cases.

Ron Wodaski

Ron Wodaski
http://www.newastro.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Patterson [mailto:jpatters@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 8:05 PM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: [ccd-newastro] Camera focus with Fastar

Ron,

Your book says that short focal ratio scopes require precise focus and more effort to achieve the best focus, and the NGF-S focuser is recommended for fine focusing control on a SCT.  It seems like the f2 Fastar would need critical focus and the NGF-S is probably not useable since the central obstruction would probably increase and the 2+" space for the focuser may not be there.  How did you focus the Fastar with the ST237 camera for the images at your site or what would you recommend for Fastar fine focus control?

Also, have you used your STV on the Fastar and if you have, how did its imaging compare to your ST237/Fastar results?  Do you plan on doing a STV review sometime?

Thanks,

Jack Patterson

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com

I know that feeling; I live in Seattle area, and we go months at a time
without having clear skies. It drives me nuts! <g> I've sometimes found
myself completely reprocessing some images to see if I can do better, and
sometimes I can't do nearly as good as I did the first time. <sigh>

I will take a look later tonight; I have a work emergency to deal with this
evening.

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Nelson [mailto:ki8hu@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 6:35 PM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: M27 Image


I posted another test strip of the same image, M27, each processed
differently. I would be curious as to which you think is best. I know
I really need a longer exposure, i'm just trying to figure out the
different ways of processing my images, since clouds prevent me from
taking any more. Thanks for the comments!

Gary



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I posted another test strip of the same image, M27, each processed
differently. I would be curious as to which you think is best. I know
I really need a longer exposure, i'm just trying to figure out the
different ways of processing my images, since clouds prevent me from
taking any more. Thanks for the comments!

Gary

The scope was a 10" LX-50 at f3.3. The camera was a MX5-C. I do live in town
and have alot of light pollution here. The exposures were a single 3 min
image for RGB and 20-20 sec exposures for the luminance file stacked in
AstroArt.

Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Wodaski <ronw@...>
To: <ccd-newastro@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 8:00 PM
Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro] M27 Image


> What scope and camera did you use for this shot?
>
> This image looks a lot like M27 looks through the eyepiece, but of course
> you wouldn't see any of the color in the eyepiece! Most of the detail you
> show in this image is red, so I am thinking you might need to do longer
> exposures in blue and green to get the best color balance.
>
> To show more of the details on M27, you'll need to take a longer exposure.
> Do you have much light pollution where you are? The heavier the light
> pollution, the longer the exposure you need to get good details. How long
of
> an exposure was this? Your stars are nice and round, so the guiding on
this
> was very good.
>
> Ron Wodaski
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Nelson [mailto:ki8hu@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 4:19 PM
> To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
> Subject: [ccd-newastro] M27 Image
>
>
> I've posted a image of M27 which is a LRGB Image. This is the best of
> M27 I've been able to get so far. I know I need to get a longer
> exposure to bring out more detail. Hopefully in the near future the
> weather will clear and allow me to give it a shot. I'm planning on a
> trip to a dark sky site this weekend if the weather holds out. Never
> had the camera to a dark site so I'm really interested in seeing the
> difference in the results. Clear Skies everyone.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder if Eddie will be mad?
> http://click.egroups.com/1/6000/1/_/_/_/962234365/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
>

What scope and camera did you use for this shot?

This image looks a lot like M27 looks through the eyepiece, but of course
you wouldn't see any of the color in the eyepiece! Most of the detail you
show in this image is red, so I am thinking you might need to do longer
exposures in blue and green to get the best color balance.

To show more of the details on M27, you'll need to take a longer exposure.
Do you have much light pollution where you are? The heavier the light
pollution, the longer the exposure you need to get good details. How long of
an exposure was this? Your stars are nice and round, so the guiding on this
was very good.

Ron Wodaski

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Nelson [mailto:ki8hu@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 4:19 PM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: [ccd-newastro] M27 Image


I've posted a image of M27 which is a LRGB Image. This is the best of
M27 I've been able to get so far. I know I need to get a longer
exposure to bring out more detail. Hopefully in the near future the
weather will clear and allow me to give it a shot. I'm planning on a
trip to a dark sky site this weekend if the weather holds out. Never
had the camera to a dark site so I'm really interested in seeing the
difference in the results. Clear Skies everyone.

Gary



------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder if Eddie will be mad?
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I've posted a image of M27 which is a LRGB Image. This is the best of
M27 I've been able to get so far. I know I need to get a longer
exposure to bring out more detail. Hopefully in the near future the
weather will clear and allow me to give it a shot. I'm planning on a
trip to a dark sky site this weekend if the weather holds out. Never
had the camera to a dark site so I'm really interested in seeing the
difference in the results. Clear Skies everyone.

Gary

Ok cool Well do.  I am going to master this shit if it kills me.  I cannot
remember a harder thing.  And man I have done lots of weird stuff from
Triahtlons to body building those were very easy.
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Wodaski <ronw@...>
To: <ccd-newastro@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 11:53 AM
Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro] New sections


> Upload anyway; we'll make a black-belt CCD master out of you!
>
> <<g>>
>
> Ron W
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Focus [mailto:focus@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 5:50 AM
> To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] New sections
>
>
> cool, what if you did $hit work? ;-]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ron Wodaski <ronw@...>
> To: <ccd-newastro@egroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 7:10 PM
> Subject: [ccd-newastro] New sections
>
>
> > ccd-newastro has two new folders in the Files section:
> >
> > CCD Gallery - this is a place to upload your images for viewing by
> > others. If you've done good work, here is a place to show it off.
> > I've uploaded a few files to get things started; please feel free to
> > contribute.
> >
> > Feedback - if you have questions about an image, or if you would like
> > suggestions on how to improve an image, or if you would like to offer
> > suggestions about images uploaded by others, please check out this
> > folder.
> >
> > You can access the Files section of ccd-newastro at:
> >
> > http://www.egroups.com/files/ccd-newastro/
> >
> > -----------------------
> > Ron Wodaski
> > http://www.newastro.com
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Click here for savings: beMANY!
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/4115/1/_/_/_/962064737/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>

Upload anyway; we'll make a black-belt CCD master out of you!

<<g>>

Ron W

-----Original Message-----
From: Focus [mailto:focus@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 5:50 AM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] New sections


cool, what if you did $hit work? ;-]
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Wodaski <ronw@...>
To: <ccd-newastro@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 7:10 PM
Subject: [ccd-newastro] New sections


> ccd-newastro has two new folders in the Files section:
>
> CCD Gallery - this is a place to upload your images for viewing by
> others. If you've done good work, here is a place to show it off.
> I've uploaded a few files to get things started; please feel free to
> contribute.
>
> Feedback - if you have questions about an image, or if you would like
> suggestions on how to improve an image, or if you would like to offer
> suggestions about images uploaded by others, please check out this
> folder.
>
> You can access the Files section of ccd-newastro at:
>
> http://www.egroups.com/files/ccd-newastro/
>
> -----------------------
> Ron Wodaski
> http://www.newastro.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Click here for savings: beMANY!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4115/1/_/_/_/962064737/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>


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cool, what if you did $hit work? ;-]
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Wodaski <ronw@...>
To: <ccd-newastro@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 7:10 PM
Subject: [ccd-newastro] New sections


> ccd-newastro has two new folders in the Files section:
>
> CCD Gallery - this is a place to upload your images for viewing by
> others. If you've done good work, here is a place to show it off.
> I've uploaded a few files to get things started; please feel free to
> contribute.
>
> Feedback - if you have questions about an image, or if you would like
> suggestions on how to improve an image, or if you would like to offer
> suggestions about images uploaded by others, please check out this
> folder.
>
> You can access the Files section of ccd-newastro at:
>
> http://www.egroups.com/files/ccd-newastro/
>
> -----------------------
> Ron Wodaski
> http://www.newastro.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Click here for savings: beMANY!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4115/1/_/_/_/962064737/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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> ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>

You are getting excellent results for a downtown location! I'm amazed at how
much detail you've got in these objects. You need longer exposures to get
good results.

M57 is very good, with nice color.

I have a friend who is also modifying his mount to see if he can make it a
better imaging mount. He is also imaging with the MX5-C. He has the
Celestron Celestar Deluxe, I believe. His latest attempt to improving the
mount will be to find better quality bearings for it. If he is able to do
that, we will be publishing the info so other folks can do it, too.

I'd love to hear about your modifications; feel free to post info, including
images, here.

Ron Wodaski
http://www.newastro.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Nelson [mailto:ki8hu@...]
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 6:27 PM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: [ccd-newastro] A few pictures


I've added a few of my pictures to the files section. I am really
just getting started in deep sky imaging so I'm still learning alot.
I've had my MX5-C for about a month now and I feel I'm starting to
make some progress in the right direction. All my imaging so far has
been done from my downtown location. I'm not sure which is worse, the
city lights or the trains. I have train tracks about 50 feet from
where I setup my scope so I have to try and time any long exposures
between the trains, because they shake the scope so bad. I've also
been performing some work on the drives of the scope to improve
tracking. All I need to complete the mods is the ring gear for the RA
drive, which should be arriving shortly. I'd be very interested in
seeing more pictures from newbies like myself so that we can share
our learning experiences.

The images I uploaded are of M8 and M57. M8 was a combination of 20 x
25 second unguided exposures. M57 was my first attempt at LRGB
processing, using a single 3 minute guided exposure for RGB and a set
of 15 x 20 sec exposures for the L file.

Clear skies!

Gary



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope this isn't too offensive- trust me, it's better than the Elian one.
http://click.egroups.com/1/6002/1/_/_/_/962069242/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com

I've added a few of my pictures to the files section. I am really
just getting started in deep sky imaging so I'm still learning alot.
I've had my MX5-C for about a month now and I feel I'm starting to
make some progress in the right direction. All my imaging so far has
been done from my downtown location. I'm not sure which is worse, the
city lights or the trains. I have train tracks about 50 feet from
where I setup my scope so I have to try and time any long exposures
between the trains, because they shake the scope so bad. I've also
been performing some work on the drives of the scope to improve
tracking. All I need to complete the mods is the ring gear for the RA
drive, which should be arriving shortly. I'd be very interested in
seeing more pictures from newbies like myself so that we can share
our learning experiences.

The images I uploaded are of M8 and M57. M8 was a combination of 20 x
25 second unguided exposures. M57 was my first attempt at LRGB
processing, using a single 3 minute guided exposure for RGB and a set
of 15 x 20 sec exposures for the L file.

Clear skies!

Gary

ccd-newastro has two new folders in the Files section:

CCD Gallery - this is a place to upload your images for viewing by
others. If you've done good work, here is a place to show it off.
I've uploaded a few files to get things started; please feel free to
contribute.

Feedback - if you have questions about an image, or if you would like
suggestions on how to improve an image, or if you would like to offer
suggestions about images uploaded by others, please check out this
folder.

You can access the Files section of ccd-newastro at:

http://www.egroups.com/files/ccd-newastro/

-----------------------
Ron Wodaski
http://www.newastro.com

The remaining content for chapter two is up for subscribers. This
includes information about the JMI and Optec motorized focusers, flip
mirrors, parfocal rings, etc.

Ron Wodaski

--- In ccd-newastro@egroups.com, "Ron Wodaski" <ronw@n...> wrote:
> I have posted new material for Chapter 2 of the book today. You
will
> see the new links in the contents for the chapter when you visit
the
> sample chapter. I have created a log in system to enable
subscribers
> to see the new content. Paid subscribers will get an email with
> username/password info within 24 hours. The chapter 2 content is at:
>
> http://www.newastro.com/newastro/book/C2/chapter2_home.asp
>
> I will be posting the rest of chapter 2 over the weekend.
Subscribers
> will automatically get access to the new content as it appears.
>
> Ron Wodaski

I have posted new material for Chapter 2 of the book today. You will
see the new links in the contents for the chapter when you visit the
sample chapter. I have created a log in system to enable subscribers
to see the new content. Paid subscribers will get an email with
username/password info within 24 hours. The chapter 2 content is at:

http://www.newastro.com/newastro/book/C2/chapter2_home.asp

I will be posting the rest of chapter 2 over the weekend. Subscribers
will automatically get access to the new content as it appears.

Ron Wodaski

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Wodaski

To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 5:31 PM

Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro]

Generally, I try to polar align well enough that I could take a one-minute exposure without star trails. Thus, a ten-second guide interval is actually fine -- it's one sixth of that. With good quality mounts -- yours should qualify -- a good polar alignment can make the guiding experience painless, as explained in some detail in my previous message.

 

Ron Wodaski

-----Original Message-----
From: Focus [mailto:focus@...]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 7:24 PM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro]

I was using 3-4 seconds then 5-7 seconds depending on the location and size of the guide star.  Once I couldn't find a guide star then rotated the camera then found a guide star but took 7 second exposures with a 10 second calibration.  I thought the move was too big compared to the exposure.  Ya know kinda like if yu are exposing you ain't correctin.....

 

thanks Ron

Brian

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Wodaski

To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 4:44 PM

Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro]

One other idea -- how long was your guide exposure? Sometimes, you can eliminate this kind of oscillation simply by going to a longer guide exposure. I typically use guide exposures of around 4-5 seconds.

 

Ron Wodaski

-----Original Message-----
From: Focus [mailto:focus@...]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 10:26 AM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: [ccd-newastro]

Hey guys,

I took this last night with an ap 1200 mount.  I took an ok 60 second guided shot and then tried guiding, focal length 1600mm.  I used .5 guiding and calibrated at .5x.  When I did the star stayed on the little autoguiding chip the whole exposure.  I did not play with backlash at all.  I used a bunch of different settings on maxim guiding, but didn't try to change backlash in guider settings. 

I even tried the Roland calibrate at 1x and guide at .5x trick and got the same results. 

I think it is dec backlash, can anyone help?  The ap mount manual says to depress one dip switch at a time till backlash gone.  I was too tuckered out to mess with it. 

thanks

Brian

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-----Original Message-----
From: Focus [mailto:focus@...]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 7:24 PM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro]

I was using 3-4 seconds then 5-7 seconds depending on the location and size of the guide star.  Once I couldn't find a guide star then rotated the camera then found a guide star but took 7 second exposures with a 10 second calibration.  I thought the move was too big compared to the exposure.  Ya know kinda like if yu are exposing you ain't correctin.....

 

thanks Ron

Brian

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Wodaski

To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 4:44 PM

Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro]

One other idea -- how long was your guide exposure? Sometimes, you can eliminate this kind of oscillation simply by going to a longer guide exposure. I typically use guide exposures of around 4-5 seconds.

 

Ron Wodaski

-----Original Message-----
From: Focus [mailto:focus@...]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 10:26 AM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: [ccd-newastro]

Hey guys,

I took this last night with an ap 1200 mount.  I took an ok 60 second guided shot and then tried guiding, focal length 1600mm.  I used .5 guiding and calibrated at .5x.  When I did the star stayed on the little autoguiding chip the whole exposure.  I did not play with backlash at all.  I used a bunch of different settings on maxim guiding, but didn't try to change backlash in guider settings. 

I even tried the Roland calibrate at 1x and guide at .5x trick and got the same results. 

I think it is dec backlash, can anyone help?  The ap mount manual says to depress one dip switch at a time till backlash gone.  I was too tuckered out to mess with it. 

thanks

Brian

---

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-----Original Message-----
From: Focus [mailto:focus@...]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 7:16 PM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro]

Hi Ron,

 

Thanks for the invaluable tips.  I was so frustrated man o man.  Wanna come out here for a night or two?  I got lots of mounts and scopes and cameras......

 

Are the Maxim backlash settings the same thing as using the backlash settings on the mount?  I haven't reset those. 

 

I have the 400 goto moutn set as you did in AZ, should I do this also for the 1200 or just buy a Paramount 1100?  <g>

 

I trust you still like the njp, I got hold of one and will be using it as my dark site mount.  Are you just going through gear for the book or really trying to find good stuff?  What happened with the gpdx? I printed your web page and am reading it tonight about that mount.  I think my 400 is in the launch position....

 

take care and let's start this group rolling, huh?

Brian

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Wodaski

To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 4:39 PM

Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro]

If you are using Maxim, you can check your backlash settings using the software. Position yourself at a star near the celestial equator, so that movement in Dec and RA will be similar.

 

When the Guide tab is active, note that there is a button labeled Move. Click this button to open a Move dialog. Make sure the mount is set to move at your guide rate (typically .5x). You have a fairly long focal length, 1600mm, so I would suggest that you try a move duration of 5 seconds.

 

Click the +X button to get things started. Ignore the amount of movement. Note the position of a bright star. .

 

Now click -X, note the position, and then click +X again. Does the star return to the same position as it was in before? In other words, are the movements the same amount?

 

Now do the same process for Y. Is the magnitude of the movement the same, larger, smaller? The two directions should move close to the same amount. If not, it's likely that you have a problem with backlash settings. A little experimentation should confirm whether you have too little, or too much backlash. The Guide Settings dialog allows you to use software backlash adjustments, and you can observe the results of these changes in order to determine how your backlash settings are.

 

You can also check your backlash visually; the AP manual has good instructions for doing this. Be patient with the process; it takes a bit of time to get a feel for what is best. You definitely are better off having too little backlash compensation, because you can do additional compensation in the software settings. If you have too much, it will cause results like you already have seen. <g>

 

Other factors that might contribute to the duplicate star images:

 

* A too-perfectly balanced mount. You want a little excess weight on the east side of the mount, to keep the gears always meshed and pushing "up hill."

 

* Too high of an aggressiveness setting. This can push the mount harder than it needs to be pushed, or cause the mount to overreact to twinkling of stars.

 

* To long of a maximum duration of movement; try cutting this down.

 

But backlash is the usually culprit; it sounds like you have too much.

 

Ron Wodaski

-----Original Message-----
From: Focus [mailto:focus@...]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 10:26 AM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: [ccd-newastro]

Hey guys,

I took this last night with an ap 1200 mount.  I took an ok 60 second guided shot and then tried guiding, focal length 1600mm.  I used .5 guiding and calibrated at .5x.  When I did the star stayed on the little autoguiding chip the whole exposure.  I did not play with backlash at all.  I used a bunch of different settings on maxim guiding, but didn't try to change backlash in guider settings. 

I even tried the Roland calibrate at 1x and guide at .5x trick and got the same results. 

I think it is dec backlash, can anyone help?  The ap mount manual says to depress one dip switch at a time till backlash gone.  I was too tuckered out to mess with it. 

thanks

Brian

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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---

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----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Wodaski

To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 4:44 PM

Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro]

One other idea -- how long was your guide exposure? Sometimes, you can eliminate this kind of oscillation simply by going to a longer guide exposure. I typically use guide exposures of around 4-5 seconds.

 

Ron Wodaski

-----Original Message-----
From: Focus [mailto:focus@...]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 10:26 AM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: [ccd-newastro]

Hey guys,

I took this last night with an ap 1200 mount.  I took an ok 60 second guided shot and then tried guiding, focal length 1600mm.  I used .5 guiding and calibrated at .5x.  When I did the star stayed on the little autoguiding chip the whole exposure.  I did not play with backlash at all.  I used a bunch of different settings on maxim guiding, but didn't try to change backlash in guider settings. 

I even tried the Roland calibrate at 1x and guide at .5x trick and got the same results. 

I think it is dec backlash, can anyone help?  The ap mount manual says to depress one dip switch at a time till backlash gone.  I was too tuckered out to mess with it. 

thanks

Brian

---

---

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----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Wodaski

To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 4:39 PM

Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro]

If you are using Maxim, you can check your backlash settings using the software. Position yourself at a star near the celestial equator, so that movement in Dec and RA will be similar.

 

When the Guide tab is active, note that there is a button labeled Move. Click this button to open a Move dialog. Make sure the mount is set to move at your guide rate (typically .5x). You have a fairly long focal length, 1600mm, so I would suggest that you try a move duration of 5 seconds.

 

Click the +X button to get things started. Ignore the amount of movement. Note the position of a bright star. .

 

Now click -X, note the position, and then click +X again. Does the star return to the same position as it was in before? In other words, are the movements the same amount?

 

Now do the same process for Y. Is the magnitude of the movement the same, larger, smaller? The two directions should move close to the same amount. If not, it's likely that you have a problem with backlash settings. A little experimentation should confirm whether you have too little, or too much backlash. The Guide Settings dialog allows you to use software backlash adjustments, and you can observe the results of these changes in order to determine how your backlash settings are.

 

You can also check your backlash visually; the AP manual has good instructions for doing this. Be patient with the process; it takes a bit of time to get a feel for what is best. You definitely are better off having too little backlash compensation, because you can do additional compensation in the software settings. If you have too much, it will cause results like you already have seen. <g>

 

Other factors that might contribute to the duplicate star images:

 

* A too-perfectly balanced mount. You want a little excess weight on the east side of the mount, to keep the gears always meshed and pushing "up hill."

 

* Too high of an aggressiveness setting. This can push the mount harder than it needs to be pushed, or cause the mount to overreact to twinkling of stars.

 

* To long of a maximum duration of movement; try cutting this down.

 

But backlash is the usually culprit; it sounds like you have too much.

 

Ron Wodaski

-----Original Message-----
From: Focus [mailto:focus@...]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 10:26 AM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: [ccd-newastro]

Hey guys,

I took this last night with an ap 1200 mount.  I took an ok 60 second guided shot and then tried guiding, focal length 1600mm.  I used .5 guiding and calibrated at .5x.  When I did the star stayed on the little autoguiding chip the whole exposure.  I did not play with backlash at all.  I used a bunch of different settings on maxim guiding, but didn't try to change backlash in guider settings. 

I even tried the Roland calibrate at 1x and guide at .5x trick and got the same results. 

I think it is dec backlash, can anyone help?  The ap mount manual says to depress one dip switch at a time till backlash gone.  I was too tuckered out to mess with it. 

thanks

Brian

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Focus [mailto:focus@...]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 10:26 AM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: [ccd-newastro]

Hey guys,

I took this last night with an ap 1200 mount.  I took an ok 60 second guided shot and then tried guiding, focal length 1600mm.  I used .5 guiding and calibrated at .5x.  When I did the star stayed on the little autoguiding chip the whole exposure.  I did not play with backlash at all.  I used a bunch of different settings on maxim guiding, but didn't try to change backlash in guider settings. 

I even tried the Roland calibrate at 1x and guide at .5x trick and got the same results. 

I think it is dec backlash, can anyone help?  The ap mount manual says to depress one dip switch at a time till backlash gone.  I was too tuckered out to mess with it. 

thanks

Brian

---

---

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ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Focus [mailto:focus@...]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 10:26 AM
To: ccd-newastro@egroups.com
Subject: [ccd-newastro]

Hey guys,

I took this last night with an ap 1200 mount.  I took an ok 60 second guided shot and then tried guiding, focal length 1600mm.  I used .5 guiding and calibrated at .5x.  When I did the star stayed on the little autoguiding chip the whole exposure.  I did not play with backlash at all.  I used a bunch of different settings on maxim guiding, but didn't try to change backlash in guider settings. 

I even tried the Roland calibrate at 1x and guide at .5x trick and got the same results. 

I think it is dec backlash, can anyone help?  The ap mount manual says to depress one dip switch at a time till backlash gone.  I was too tuckered out to mess with it. 

thanks

Brian